(upbeat music) - Well, hello. - Nice to meet you. - I'm glad. Yeah, it's you too. So I actually am like new to your world and I'm so happy that I found you. And I just recently discovered that I had a lot of unprocessed trauma that's been holding me back. That's when like all this was coming into awareness. And so I Googled you and found you. And then I did, yeah. And then I did your, um, that the live your purpose jumpstart.
And a lot of it just like, it just, I felt like you were talking about me. Yeah. It's just like weird how the universe works like that. Um, because yeah, cause so, um, from like age, it's like 17 to 24, I was in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. Um, so everybody talks about like your past childhood trauma. And I was like, well, I didn't really have any childhood trauma, but I guess, so I guess that was my trauma that I just never really dealt with my
emotions or like never really process it. Like it was for me, it was just about like, I survived it. I got over it and I don't need to think about it. And it just in the past. So that was how I dealt with it. Um, But then like when you were talking about the in the live jumpstart, how, how you said that the, that there was a your
next level relationship. So my next level relationship after that was when I was my so my other long term relationship that I actually married, he cheated on me like multiple times, but never was physically abusive. So I thought that was like, you know, that was basically my next level. And so - It's definitely there, there, there is a level in that. That would be an improvement for sure. - Right. Yeah. And so I didn't understand. - And not what you deserve also.
- Yeah. Yeah. And so I didn't understand that until then. Yeah. So then, then my last relationship was even better than that. Like he actually got me to open up more and I was super safe and like super more like vulnerable. And, but we didn't really have a lot of passion but he's still like pretty much like one of my best friends. So yeah, so it's now it's about me.
I know that I have to be in a safe environment for me to be open up and be vulnerable because I'm super closed off to mostly everybody. And so, yeah, so I'm just like really happy that I kind of discovered that and you've actually helped me discover that. - That's really beautiful. as you share, what are you noticing in your body?
- I guess it's just me just being like, I guess like I just, I always suppress it 'cause every single time I talk about it, it's just like, it's just really hard to like let it out. 'Cause I just hit it for so many years. And I think now, because this is happening, like things are just like, all the emotions are just coming like randomly. Like everything sets me off now, like something happens, like I'll just start bawling out of nowhere.
And I think that's why I'm here today, to get control of my emotions a lot more and just to like process it and let go and get to like the next level. - Yeah, well, I'm so happy that you're here and it sounds like you're doing a lot of work and are you able to notice what's happening in your body right now? - Yeah, yeah. happening in your body right now? It just feels more like a relief, you know, just to like...
So there was tension and there's now relaxation or release. Yeah, yeah. So that's somatic. That's the somatic, that's the beginning of a somatic awareness, like I'm feeling my physical body relax a little bit. And then emotionally, what are you noticing? Emotionally, just like, it just a lot of times for it just feels really good for me to just like cry. I don't know what it is, but it just like feels really good. Crying is actually somatic. What's the emotion that comes
with the crying? I don't know. It's just kind of like anger and guilt and frustration and just fear and shame, like all of that. It's one big ball. We'll just shut that down. Lock it down. And let's just be grateful and change our mindset today and put all that in the past. I get that so much. That's called trauma override, right? Where you override the trauma, right? Spiritual bypassing. I actually think spiritual bypassing is when you bypass the spirit and just stain your trauma,
right? That's how I think is you can bypass your spirit. You can bypass your mind. You can bypass your somatics. You can bypass your emotion. You can bypass your trauma. You can bypass all those things. Right? And they're all different. Technically spiritual bypassing is when you bypass affect somatics, emotion, cognition with a spiritual reason for it. Right? But we're bypassing the trauma and like it's in the past, but it doesn't live in you in the past. It lives
in you in the present. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does. And I thought that's how I was, I thought I was really good at dealing with it because I wasn't thinking about it ever. But you were. You were good at dealing with it until you wanted more. Right. See, it's important to understand how you're changing the rules on yourself because one way to think of it is you're raising your standards. So, as you raise your standards, why you haven't had the next level is now,
"Oh my God, look at that. Wow. Okay." And look at what I haven't felt. because if you just want to keep the status quo, you would be just doing what you were doing. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Yeah. And I think that's why I'm here because of that. Exactly. Yeah. Because I am tired of staying stuck in the same place. Yeah, exactly. So it worked until you wanted more. And that's usually true for most life change,
is that we do the best we can with what we got. And if you feel stuck, it's you got to change your skill set usually. And so that's something that we really want to think about as we work together to help you get to that next level. So I want to circle back to something that you said. So did you friend zone somebody? No, it wasn't friend zone. It was just more like the passion wasn't there. It was more like we were more friends.
say more about that. So, I just was weird, like that love of, you know, that passionate love, or like you want to be around that person all the time wasn't there. It was more just like... For you or for him or for both of you? For both. Well, more for, okay, for me. Like, he felt it coming from me. Okay. And so, what did he do? He basically just said this isn't working out because I know you're you're not where I want you to be. Oh. How did that feel?
At first, it was hard, but I mean, you're not where I want you to be. Well, not not everybody where you want them to be. Now, we're like not like we're where where he wants where he wants me to love him like like he wants me to love him. if that makes sense. So, probably what he meant was, "I'm not getting what I need here." Basically, yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And I knew that and I was trying, but I just couldn't get there. So, yeah.
And why do you think that is? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, that I don't know. I know you don't know, but if you did know, what would you say? maybe the attraction wasn't there, but on my part. I see. So like, what do you normally, what type of person are you normally attracted to? Well, see, I don't really, I think as I got older, I don't really have a type anymore. It's just more about if we connect and I could open up to you.
But in the past, what type of person would you have been attracted to? Oh, the bad people. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that there is usually a excitable nature, right? By the way, butterflies is this regulation. You're not in your right mind when you're feeling butterflies. They're not necessarily bad, but you are not in a regulated state when you have butterflies. You are dumb when you have butterflies. Your prefrontal is just like off and your dopamine is just like
firing. So excited! But you are not thinking straight, okay? I just thought about Kevin Hart just now. Sorry, that was very funny. He was like a stand-up comedy thing. He's like, "SUSIE!" When he does that thing. Anyway, so like I have a suspicion that you are oriented to be attracted to people who don't meet your needs. Very true. And like there is a different energy. So you can definitely have love, romance, and passion with a safe person, but it's way scarier.
Yes. And there's a degree of, I'll use this word loosely, it's a little more boring. But it's not more boring. In a way, it's not more boring because you're actually risking sharing parts of you that have never really been shared before. So, there's less drama about surface level things. And you could say there's more drama about your wounds. Because in a secure relationship, you're going to access each other's wounds. Not on purpose, but it's just what happens.
Ow. Okay, yeah. That actually pretty much was spot on. I have a feeling, I have a feeling I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. I have a slight suspicion that you friend-zoned him. I just have this feeling that you were like, "This is scary, buddy. I just... It smells like it, it feels like it, I could be wrong." Yeah, you're pretty much right. Yeah. Yeah, you put him in the friend zone. You friend-zoned him.
And he was like, basically not able to know how to navigate that. Yeah. That's what it sounds like. Yes. Just out of curiosity, was there any part of you that would hope that he wouldn't agree with you? And he would change or rise or do something different? Yes. Yeah, okay. Take note, y'all. Just so we're super clear, this is a super feminine moment, okay? I'm setting a boundary, but what I really want is I want you to not set this boundary with me.
And that's very different than consent, by the way, right? Because there's a hope, there's an unconscious hope that you'll help me change this script, right? what if he had said something like, "Well, I just don't see myself in that. I don't see you that way. I don't see myself that way. And you know what? We're gonna figure this out." What if he had said something like that? - Well, he did. We'd gotten back together twice. And I've been sort
of twice, I guess. - This is called burying the lead right here. Just so we're super clear. Yeah, this is the thing that you probably should have led with that I had to extract out of you. You're like, "I didn't friends on him. I friends on him three times." Yeah. Why do you think he keeps coming back? Because we get along so well. It sounds like a really bad choice. Yeah, I feel the safest with him that I've ever felt ever with anybody.
- Okay, let me just say something right now. That is a sign to not leave someone. That doesn't mean that you can't feel like leaving. That doesn't mean you can't express that you're thinking about leaving, right? But I think the move... Where are you guys currently? Together, not together? - Not together. - I think you should tell him it's what you just said to me and to say, "I keep leaving because you're so safe and I don't know how to be with a safe person and you terrify me.
Yeah. Because you are able, I'm able to tap into parts of me that have never been loved in relationships before. Now, that is not boring, by the way. That's hella interesting, right? But you keep friend-zoning this guy. He keeps coming back. God bless his soul. And here's why I think you should do that, okay? Because this is for this or the next relationship because what you're doing is you're building that relational fitness.
So this is something that you're gonna need to do anyway. So it's like don't waste a good crisis. Does that make sense? Yeah it does but yeah it's scary. Yeah we do this scary shit around here and like the really scary shit not just like, "Oh, I posted once on Instagram." This is like your heartstrings. Nothing against posting on Instagram. This is really, really tight, really scary, wound up energy, right? And that has been betrayed, has been missed, has been hurt,
has been abused. So yeah, there's gonna be a lot of resistance. Right. I think, I think, I don't know. I believe in love. I think it's worth letting him know. Yeah. Because it's like, like when you say something like, I've never felt the safest or whatever, right? Like, and, and, and, and you're leaving, like, that's actually like, that's actually contraindicated. Like, I never felt the safest, so I should stay. Yeah. Because attraction that's based in trauma, that's not good for you.
I know. And there's a whole other level of intimacy, knowing, love, like everything that can happen on the other side of working through that heart affect and somatics and cognitive stuff that's coming up. Which nothing like a relationship to bring that shit up, by the way. And the more secure the more it's going to come up. It's a fantastic advertisement for healthy relationships right now by the way. Get into a healthy relationship and be triggered the whole time. Yeah.
And be like no thank you. So does that make sense? Yeah it does. I think our families are kind of like over us already though. Yeah, but like respectfully, it's not their business even though it's their business. Like the only reason why you'd be going back and forth like this is because there's
something there that's more than normal. Like as soon as you start talking about him, like a lot of my coaching is like very just like evidence-based and practical, but every once a while I get like intuitive hits and I was like something is off there and I could be wrong. Like I could just have bias, but I think like, I think that this is like somebody that's worth being honest too about these things and seeing how he responds. And when you let him know,
like it's scary for me to even tell this to you. But I learned today why I do this. Yeah. That might be worth exploring because like he makes me feel the safest ever is like how every great love story starts. That's the difference between a thriller and a rom-com. Less murder, mystery, suicide, Jeffrey Dahmer stuff on Netflix. More rom-com genre. Does that make sense? We want like a good old-fashioned, just like Matthew McConaughey rom-com.
Not like thriller drama, and what's happening, and tension, and all that type of stuff. Because that's how you're oriented based on your history. And then it's like, okay, what's the feeling that's coming up for me as I get close? What does closeness bring up for me? Probably some type of grief or abandonment. Right. So closeness equals loss. Closeness equals anger. Closeness equals what? Loneliness. Yeah. So the closer I get to you, the lonelier I'll become.
She's a runner. She's a track star. Right? Like, that, we don't want to do that. We want to do the opposite of that. So in this case, I think your natural intuition might be some trauma bonding coming up from previous relationships that feels intuitive, but it's actually a maladaptive response. It's kind of like when you tell someone to just intuitively eat, but they have an eating problem and they don't know their feelings and their somatic sensations and what's
happening in their body. They don't know about their hunger cues. There was a time in my life, if you told me to intuitively, I would stuff my face with like Cinnabon, Butterfinger, and pizza. Because my intuition said to do it, right? No, that's not accurate. But you have to work through those emotions and physical sensations to get to your intuition. And I think that the inclination to leave is probably a misery to the situation. But it's also accurate based on what you've been
through. Does that make sense? Both are true. Both can be true. I think I'm gonna like really think about everything. Re-watch this. Because there's just a lot right now. And see what happens. So I hear that it's a lot. Do you think we could maybe like wrap up this conversation on a maybe better note than to see what happens? Or do you feel like that's the threshold you're at? Yeah, I think it's the threshold because it's just it's not even just that it's like everything
right now. You know, it's just because I'm just like not even just like it's not even about him right now. It's more like I'm just like angry about the past stuff that I've been like holding onto too, and it just comes out whenever it wants to, and it's kind of coming out right now. - Yeah, so let me help you understand something about all the stuff that's coming out right now. Okay. The problem isn't that it's coming out. The problem is that it's being held by yourself.
Right? What we're talking about, another way of having a safe other to share with. - Yeah. It's not something you have to hold by yourself. These are the exact types of things the secure partner is there for. To listen to this stuff, to hear this stuff, to care about this stuff. Awesome. Right. Yeah. And he was that for me. So, it's the going through it alone. That's the hard part. It is. It is. you know, we all have, I believe there's this diagnosis, one of my, there's certain different
diagnosis in the DSM. I don't do diagnosis, but I read the diagnostic criteria, right? And one of the most interesting diagnosis in all of mental health for me is the borderline personality, right? And if I had to like bottom line borderline personality, it's, I hate you, don't leave me. And I feel like all of us are on the borderline spectrum on some level. We have some aversion to intimacy and some desire for it. So, I would say we all probably have mild
borderline tendencies. Like, "Come here, go away. I hate you. I love you. You're an asshole. Don't leave." All that type of stuff. And another way to think of borderline, that idea of borderline personality is simple just ambivalence. Right? I want one thing, I want something else that's different. I want to stay, I want to go. I want you to leave, but I don't want you to leave. Right? There's a relational ambivalence. Navigating ambivalence is a very important skill set for
long-term change. Right? And so, what we want to focus on is how do you do ambivalence? How do you want something that you're scared of? How do you love something that you wish would leave you alone? How do you desire something that seems so utterly terrifying? 'Cause it's not one or the other. Emotional fitness says, let's hang in that tension until we have a very crystal clear answer that's not based on ambivalence.
Yeah. Because it's the going through it alone that's the problem. It's not going through it that's the problem. I'll take it out of your example for a second. So, I think somebody who made a massive contribution to the field of psychology, Victor Frankl, right? Man's Search for Meaning, Logos Therapy. So, he was in Auschwitz
in concentration camps, and he lost pretty much all his family. But he was like a therapist and psychologist, and that very intense traumatic experience for him helped him create a whole field of psychotherapy. And Man's Search for Meaning is probably one of my all-time favorite books. One of the things that Victor Frankl brought forward as an idea is that between stimulus and response is a choice. And that's probably the most quoted
idea of his, between stimulus and response is a choice. And especially coaches, we like to grab onto that. What people miss, I think, about Frankel's work and observations, and even in hell on earth, Auschwitz and the concentration camps, hell on earth. I think the only thing that actually got people through that, that survived, was the fact that they had each other. And the Germans did not have enough money to put everybody in solitary confinement.
Because if they put everybody in solitary confinement, it would have been a very different outcome. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right. And so, yes, between symbolism and response is a choice, and I have more choices, but I'm not alone. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm working on that. I really have been working on that a lot more now because I do understand that I can't do this by myself. Yeah. Nobody can.
Yeah. And it actually helps to be around people that love me and I do want to be around. So, I get that. The technical term for what you're describing, it's called a relational alliance. if you're with a therapist, a therapeutic alliance, or with a coach, it's a coaching alliance. And like that is the primary change agent is the relationship because we're social creatures, right? And our trauma is primarily relational. So, the trauma happens relationally and it gets
healed relationally too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, yeah, because I have been doing a lot by myself for many years to cut people off easily. - So welcome off of trauma island. And last thing I'll say is it might be worth giving people a chance to know that what they did hurt and giving them a chance to be different instead of leaving first. - Yeah. - Right?
sometimes that can you know someone can hurt you they don't even know it and then you're out and they don't even know what they did versus like hey when this happened I felt this way and giving them a chance to course correct now if you're in an abusive relationship no but in a relationship like you're describing it's definitely I think worth letting somebody in on the on on the information about how they're impacting you
Yeah. So thanks for being here. Thank you. I'm glad I'm here. Yeah. We'll see you soon.