Hey there, Mastin. Hi. How's it going? It's a going. I have a question. Can you explain to me the whole growth growth mindset? Because you mentioned seeing challenges as growth. I have a really hard time with this. Like, accepting challenges as a part of growth because my brain will go like, I just can't. I just can't. Like, I'm always in complete overwhelm. I recently, last last year, had a job which I ended up leaving because all I ever heard from my brain
was I just can't do this. I just can't do this. I'm a mom of 2 girls and all I've ever said, and I hear my brain echoing, is that I just can't. I just can't. I just can't. And I've, you know, I've done tons of work and therapy included, and I've had many therapists tell me, you know, these are just challenges for you to so that you can grow. These are just things that are happening in your life that you can see as a challenge for growth. And I Okay. My brain does not register that at
all. Okay. Does it want to? No. Well, then don't. Why are you here? Because I want something better for myself. Well, then just he challenges his growth. But I can't. But why are you here? Because I want something better for myself. I wanna have a fuller life. Part of your brain seems like it might be able to. Part of my brain wants to. Oh, okay. So But there but another part
doesn't. So much so that I have got to go see, like, shaman and shit to see if it's, like, demons possessing my other part that don't allow me for growth. Seriously. I mean I I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, I I can tell you I can tell you, like, I had done lots of trauma interventions and release, and trauma release looks like an exorcism sometimes. But, you know, like, I don't believe in personally, me personally, I don't believe
in demons. I believe in dissociation, and I believe in emotions that are hard to regulate, but I've never seen a demon. Never seen I've never seen a demon. I've seen lots of people dissociated from emotions. What you're talking about is common in spiritual bypassing where we try to assign spiritual meaning to our emotions. And that's I've never found that to be a very valuable thing because we can spiritualize our feelings. Right?
What you're doing is you're trying to find a solution. So whether it's, a demon or it's an emotion or it's not possible, some part of you wants more. And you're gonna be willing to do lots of things to make it happen, it sounds like. Right? But here's the thing. If it's a demon, it's not you. Right. But if it's you or a part of you? I would say part of me. There's the that part of me is a self saboteur, the one that has me wrapped in addiction,
the one that What what's your thing? What are you what are you wrapped in? Anything. Alcohol. I stopped drinking for a while, then I just I binge eat. What's your favorite food to binge eat? Sugar. Just straight sugar? Yeah. Like gummy bears, chocolate. Oh, gummy bears. I I was just imagining just eating sugar out of the the Oh, oh, oh, no. No. Anything containing sugar that tastes good. You know? I can eat a pineapple ice cream. Oh, me too.
I ordered the Jenny's ice cream for this week because Ted Lasso comes out this week, and I got the special biscuits with the boss. Jenny's ice cream is really delicious. I can't wait for it to come. I'm gonna be like, shit because it's dairy, but whatever. Anyway, look. What if all these things you're doing, what if it's simpler than this? What if it's just like because I've I've had addiction. The amount of drugs I've done, I don't know how I'm alive.
Okay? I've done basically everything with heroin. I have a deviated septum in my nose because of how much cocaine I've done. Like, I've done a lot of drugs in my day. Okay? What if everything you're doing even now in your addiction is just a tool to regulate? Right. I I've seen none of that. Yesterday, I had a big trigger with one of my daughters, and that's what I did. I I couldn't handle it. Even though I I did reach out to a friend, and we talked through things,
and I thought I was calm. And all I could think of was going to the liquor store. And I sat in my car for as long as I could until I couldn't handle anymore. Yeah. And I went. I'm by the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't have gone. I I have no judgment here. There's nothing here. No. And and that's where all this work that I've also done, I have no judgment for myself either. I was just like, okay. You did what you did, and it is what it is. You know? Now do you know what sugar does to the
body? Why we why we go for it? I I no. I mean, I know it's an addictive substance like any I mean, the dose that Sugar in and of itself is not addictive. It would be more, like, highly processed, refined sugar that's highly palatable because you have sugar in, like, tomatoes that's not addicting. Right? So it just depends on how it's consumed. If it's
really refined, now it becomes really addicting. What people tend to focus on with sugar addiction, which by the way, I've struggled with this, okay, is the dopamine side of things. Right? Oh, look. Sugar lights up the same parts of your brain's cocaine. But that part isn't the most interesting part. Sugar is also an analgesic, which is a painkiller. Yeah. That's insightful. I know. That's why I said it. Right? And so, like, I'm saying that to you because it's like there's emotional pain that
you're in. Yeah. Right? And it sounds like closeness is hard for you. Yep. I like to isolate. That's my jam. Isolation. Well, don't have too much jam because that's also highly refined sugar. You're fine. You're fine. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Like, I believe I remember when I was in, like, 12 step meetings a lot, and I was going to AA for a while, but I was like, I'm not an alcoholic. I only have this problem. But then I got to SLAA, sex and love acts
anonymous. I don't have I'm not a sex addict, but love addiction. When I got into love addiction, I was like, I think everybody has love addiction. And by the way, what a great thing to be addicted to. Love. Right? The problem is is that love addiction is basically, like, I need other people to regulate. I'm on my own. I don't know how to relate to people. Your problem is knowing how to be close to people and safe. That's right. People suck. They can to the part of you that just said that.
Yeah. Definitely. I'm glad you're being honest. Right? So your daughter triggered you. That creates another feeling of abandonment and lack of closeness, and then I need to regulate that pain through alcohol. Right? It's like it's like going through breakups a lot or something like that. It's a similar feeling. You know, there's a bunch of research that just came out. I'm not giving you medical advice. You definitely talk to a doctor
and definitely don't do this with alcohol. But, like, there's a bunch of research that shows that Tylenol supports reducing emotional pain because it's an analgesic. It's a pain killer. And what about Benadryl? I take Benadryl sometimes just to help me sleep. But I mean, that's different. But what I That's different? Okay. But what what I want you to see is what you have a hard time with, right, is the lack of when you you you when you when you're not feeling close, that's
when you get dysregulated. And your relationship becomes alcohol. Your relationship becomes drugs. Your relationship becomes whatever it might be. And then you go seek therapy, and the therapist will say, oh, the next level I could grow through this challenge, but you're like, fuck you. I don't wanna do that. Why? Because I might have to start to feel close to people, And I don't wanna do that because people aren't aren't safe. If I learn the lesson, I might actually have a healthy relationship.
Alcohol can't abandon you. No. Sugar can't abandon you. Your daughter can. People will. Yeah. What would happen in your life if you could feel that fear of not being close to someone but not become dysregulated? Say that again? What what? That again. No. The question. Oh, sorry. What would happen if you could feel that fear of closeness and not become dysregulated? What if it would be okay? Yeah. I guess I have to sit with that. Just sit with that. Sat with
it, what would you sit with? I don't know, man. I'm just getting emotion. I don't know how they would be like Yeah. What's that feeling? It's scary. Yeah. It's just scary. That's right. It's scary to change because there's been a lot of evidence to say it won't work. So you go to things that you know will work, but they don't really work, do they? No. No. It doesn't. So it's crazy making, isn't it? It sure is. It sure is. But all you really want is to know that someone will be there.
People that matter most to you. Such a paradox. They say, yeah, push everyone away. You know? It's just Well, if you do it first, then they don't have a chance to. Right. I understand. I'm I come from a lot of avoidance. What is what who said it? Is it Descartes or I can't remember who said it. Hell is other people. I can't remember who said that, but I get that. Right? But it's not other people that are the problem. It's your fear of closeness
that's the problem. And who here can see her nervous system just relaxing as the more we acknowledge that, by the way? Just, ah, just the exhales. Can you feel that in your body, by the way? Yeah. I mean, I yeah. Just just something is still, like, just stirring up, but yes. Yeah. That's okay. Like It's just a feeling. Remember? Oh, yeah. Feelings are big with me. I kinda missed the first 20 minutes, but I heard the what you said about about feelings. Feelings have always
been intense Yeah. In my in my household, in in my growings up. You know? Just and I couldn't be here today at the first 20 minutes because I was on a call with my, with my, daughter's teacher who told me my daughter doesn't know how to self regulate, and she had anger issues. And and as she's talking about all these things my daughter is doing, all they could see is the mirror. All they could see is her talking about me, how my kid has a problem with accepting challenges and, you know,
everything. I just sounds like you have a really good motivation to change. Yeah. But but why the don't they do it is my question. You know exactly why you don't do it. I don't. That's why I'm here. Are you sure? Because you already said it. You did? Mhmm. Well, enlighten me as I don't I I don't know why I keep tripping myself up like this. After all painful. So how do I bypass the pain? Or I okay. Okay. You can't bypass. We don't we don't do bypass. Well, you can. You still do it here. No. No.
Okay. If you wanna bypass the pain, go buy alcohol. Well, I've been doing that. So But that's not what we do here. Right? This is about understanding that this pain has a purpose, and you have to decide when you're ready to find that purpose. Not that there's a purpose. There's a reason why you have it, but you can find purpose from it. Does that make sense? It's not like God sent you this pain. Like, here you go. It's like, this pain is here. We
can find a purpose in this pain. I've heard that before, and I I just can't make the connection because the pain is too big. And I understand. I can't be in it. No. So how could that help anybody? I understand. So so what do I do with the pain? How fast of an answer do you want me to give you? Fast. Okay. So are you aware of how many times you say you can't? I can't put a number on it, but a lot. I'm just not. You're so aware of it. You just can't even put a number on it.
You're you're so aware of how much you say you can't, but you can't even put a number on it. Do you see even how you answer the question? Yeah. Okay. So what if you can't not find a way? What if I can't not find you tripped me up. I got dyslexia and ADHD too. What if I cannot no. Diagnosed. Yeah. Yeah. But you didn't mention so right now. Oh, okay. Well What if you cannot find a way? What if I cannot find a way? No. What if you cannot find a way? I can't not find a way. I don't know.
If you can't not find a way, then what would you do? Like, stay stuck and Are you sure? Pain. Like No. That's if you can't find a way. I'm saying you cannot find a way. I'm not even registering that. My brain can't I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase the question? My brain is not registering that. What if you cannot find a way? You cannot find a way. I can't cannot find a way. That's right. So there is a way. So there is a
way. There's possibility. But you cannot find it. So you just have to tell me what you cannot find, and then we'll be good. So you're really tripping me up, mate. You're tripping me up. I don't know what to tell you. I mean Just say just try saying this out loud for a second. Okay. Let's just say, I can't not find a way. I can't not find a way. I cannot not find a way. I cannot not find a way. I cannot not find a way. Yeah. And you can't do that. So what where
would you not find? I can't find a way. No. You can't not find a way. You can't not find a way. It's just one word difference. Gives you the answer. I'm not saying you have to do anything. You I'm saying you can still can't do things. In this case, you just cannot find a way. And where does that leave me? You tell me. If you can't not find a way, then how would you go through challenges? Because you can't not find a way. That right there. That's it. What was that?
Well, if I can go through challenges, because I cannot find a way. Hold on a second. Wait. I'm a say it again. Okay? Okay. You can't not find a way to grow through challenges. I'm gonna write this down. Okay. You can't not Find a way to grow through challenges. Anyway. You can't not find a way to go through challenges. All I'm asking you is to not not find a way. I'm agreeing with your nervous system. Well, no wonder I was confused.
Cannot find a way. Very clear on the things you can't do, so just cannot find a way. If you can't not find a way, what would the answer be to your question about growing through challenges? You cannot find a way to go through a child. You keep deleting a word. What am I deleting? You can't not find a way. That's right. You can't not find a way. Not you cannot find a way. You can't not find a way. Can't not find a way. I cannot find a way. It's a
very simple thing you have to do. Just don't not find a way. Strange how those exhales look your make your body look so relaxed. Why did that happen? I don't know because I'm still confused. But why did your body exhale almost automatically? I don't know. Because I do a lot of that. I mean What what are you feeling in your body right now? Just a sense of ease. Weird. But Almost like
you did not find a way. Paradoxically, there's tension because I still don't think I'm I'm understanding this and my jaw's tightening because why don't I get this? Oh, you do you don't get it. You don't not get it. You cannot get this. Can't get this. Are you ready? Let's start from the beginning. I'll help you again. Okay? Because you're so close to not not finding a way. Okay. I even wrote this down. Okay. When you got on, you're, like, I can't find a way. They my
therapist told me this, I can't do this. My therapist told me that, I can't do this. My daughter, that, I can't do this. I can't I can't I can't. You are an expert at what you can't do. Yes? Yes. They can't not find a way. That's right. I'm an expert at not finding a way. No. You're an expert at what you can't do. Right. And I'm saying that you can't not find a way. Because I'm an expert at At what you can't do. At what I can't do. That's right. So just cannot find a way, and you'll be done.
I'm telling you. It's simpler than you think. It almost feels like the answer's on the edge of your tongue. Are you or are you not an expert what you can't do? Yes. So if you're an expert what you can't do and you cannot find a way to grow through challenge, then what way would you not find? Because you cannot find it. A a way to go through the challenges because I can't grow through the challenges. I know you can't. And but you also cannot find a way to grow through the challenges.
I'm agreeing with you. I'm agreeing with all the things you can't do. I'm just saying there's one more thing you can't do, which is you cannot find a way. So are you saying I can find a way because it's so good? Not. Absolutely not. I would never say that. But if you're saying that, I'll agree with you. Are you saying you can find a way? I think I can because I found my way here. Okay. So then what way would you find to grow through
challenges? I guess I had to learn how to self regulate so that when a challenge comes up, it doesn't feel overwhelming. You know? I was attacked a lot when I was a kid. In the when a challenge comes up, it feels like I'm being attacked by life. It doesn't feel like I'm being supported by life. It feels like I'm being attacked. So I'm always I was always in this position. That's true. A challenge feels like life is coming out to get me. Yeah. Well,
I gotta shield myself, and I can't do it. That's right. Look how much you can't do. You realize the beauty in what you just said. Right? I feel your pain. I feel it. I don't know what it's like to be in your pain, but do you realize what just happened? No. I got chills. What are you feeling in your body right now? I don't know. My leg was shaky. I don't sure. You were just extremely honest about how you were so
attacked when you were younger. Oh. And you just let all of us know why it's been so hard for you to do the things that you wanna do and why you can't do so many things. But you also said exactly what you need to do to move to find strength and challenges. What? Phil? You said it. You said it. What did I say? I don't know what I said. You Did I I'll
summarize it. I'm not gonna give it word for word. But, basically, what you just said was is you have to learn how to self regulate when you feel these big feelings that are, like, attack based feelings. That's assertiveness also, by the way. Fear of assertiveness, fear of closeness. Closeness is assertiveness, but in a way that violates me, that makes sense. But you already gave yourself the answer. It was brilliant. And you can't not know what you don't not know now.
Okay. Okay. You can live with that. Oh, really? You can live with that. What can you live with? It's a lot of things I know that I know that I can unknow. That's right. No. But it's just learned a new one. But then it it's hard to take action because I'm so scared because I may get attacked. But you just gave yourself the answer. Right. I need to learn to self regulate so that the world doesn't seem so overwhelming when And how may that is so brilliant and beautiful
and accurate. How many therapists have you seen about this issue? 3. And how many years or months have you been working on it with them? About 10 years. I've been in and out of therapies, different, you know, cognitive therapy, somatic time, you were never able to find a way to go through challenge, but you just did. Well, I was enlightened on how to do it, but let's see if I do it. I didn't say shit. I didn't say anything. This you said it, not me.
But just because I said it doesn't mean I'm a do it. Am I gonna say that? Hold a second. Let's stay let's stay on topic for a second. You started this conversation by saying that you don't know how to grow through challenge. Right. Everyone has told you. Then you said it was 10 years of doing this work. You don't know how to grow through challenge, and you just told me how to do it. So which one is it? I'm not asking if you are going to do it yet. I'm just asking you.
It sounds like you know exactly what to do. I'm not we're not talking about doing it yet. Right. Yeah. I need to learn the tools of self self regulation. And being able so that you can for what specific emotions? Closeness and assertiveness. Closeness and assertiveness. Assertiveness is scary for you. It feels like attack, meaning you would also feel like a perpetrator if you asserted yourself. Mhmm. But you're not. And then also people being close to you could feel like attack,
but they're not they don't need to be dangerous anymore. And so any type of major sympathetic dysregulation could feel like an attack for you. So what you said was, I need to learn self regulation so I don't get so taken out by those feelings. You knew the exact answer. Now we haven't been talking for a short period of time, but it's been long shorter than 10 years. And you found the answer in less than half an hour. True
that. Thank you. I know that your nervous system wants to skip on to implementation, which we'll talk about, but I wanna see if you can take in the wisdom that you just discovered about yourself. I didn't say it. You did. Who saw her say it to herself? Let me see if I show your hands. It's social proof. What I'm hearing is after 10 years of therapy, you didn't have an answer. And after 20 minutes of talking to me, you did. That's what I'm hearing. And it wasn't because I gave it to you. You gave
it to yourself. Okay. Is that right, or am I making it up? Sounds about right. You're hesitant because of what it means. Yes. I noticed the hesitation. Let's not let's not get into the future yet. Okay? Let's just notice you just told me that you did all this therapy and everyone says to grow through challenge. You're like, I don't know how to do that. And then you just gave yourself the answer. And you said you couldn't get an answer for 10 years and you got it in 20 minutes. Right.
But be it. No. And I mean, self regulation is just something I recently learned through watching your stuff. So it's like a new term for me, this self regulation. You know? So, but okay. I mean I'm just I'm just showing you how efficient you are when you're in the right environment and how you have the answer inside you. I didn't tell you what the answer was. You told me and you told yourself what the answer was. K. Now how do we implement that? We'll
get into that. What what are you feeling in your body right now? I'm so out of my body. It's why people ask me that. I'm just So you're feeling out of it right now? Yeah. I mean, that's yeah. Most of my life, I've, just what is it? Disassociation? I'm not in my body. Am I yeah. So can you be here for just a second? Mhmm. And before you go, I wanna ask a question for your nervous system. Are there any parts that want to go medicate after this because of the emotions that you're feeling?
Yes. So can we can we let those parts know that we love them and we understand how attacked they feel and how attacked they felt? You wanna talk about insightful. This information is so insightful. I've I've done so much different type of work, not just cognitive behavioral therapy, but therapies. And every time I leave the office, like bodywork, you know, you name it, I go and I sell and I self medicate. I numb out after my session. So it's like I threw whatever
work or advancement I may I made out the door. Like, I self medicate. It's because it feels like an attack. So this information is insightful because it just hit me in the face that I do this. Well, hopefully, nothing's hitting you in the face. I'd like to make a request. I don't like requests, but go ahead. Maybe. It's not a demand. It's just a request. Okay. Well, either go ahead. Choose to do it or not do it. I have no desire to be demand something of you that you'll
rebel against. That's not the purpose of things here. K. K? Would you be willing to ask the parts of you that wanna med medicate right now to take the night off and to not to, like, go on vacation, to maybe just, like, chill out tonight and just, like, be with them, but ask them to take a step back. You can actually do that. Okay. I can do it. You don't have to, but just try. Just notice if they're willing to. You mentioned 12 step work. I do ACA work. You're familiar.
And, I think the one that tends to wreak havoc in me is a teenager, the rebellious teenager. Like, she's just like, fuck everything. Phew. So, You too. I haven't heard about this teenager. What? Yeah. Yeah. She's the one that likes to to, you know, numb it out numb out. Yeah. I can talk to her. So how about this? I'm gonna give her an assignment. Alright. Alright? I want her to see if she can rebel a 100% tonight against her own rebellion.
Alright. Rage against the machine that is raging against the machine. Alright. Would she be willing to try that out and see how it goes? She says, yeah. Yeah. So just rebel against the rebellion. Okay. And let's just ask all the parts to step back, take the night off, and just see what happens. Okay. And just remember whenever you're stuck, just cannot find a way and you'll get there. Thank you. And
lastly insightful for me, really. Like, this is where I felt my body relax when you said, can you allow those parts to just back off? This is I felt my body relax right here. Beautiful. So ask it to stay relaxed just for the night. Okay. Thank you, Esteb. You're welcome. Thanks for being here. Absolutely. Beautiful. Awesome, Yolng. Let's hear it for oh, so beautiful. Who learned something right now? So awesome. So beautiful.