All right, we got a cue going, which is beautiful. I always love seeing that. Lots of questions today. So let's see if we can get started. Awesome. How can I help you today?
I try to find my questions. Paraphrase because I can't remember where it is. It's sitting in the emotion of anger. And I'm, I'm
like, if I found it, do you want you want to do want me to read to you? Or do you want to?
Go ahead, please?
I feel like stuck in anger following a breakup and MVA. What's MVA? motor vehicle accident, okay. And a fire, I wanted to talk to my ex to get closer and find some peace, yet he's made clear. He thinks I'm not capable of a healthy relationship. How to process these feelings that I want to avoid. Does that sound right?
Yeah, that was my message today.
Okay, cool. So first of all, great job asking about questions or asking about emotions that you want to avoid. That's a good thing. That's a very good start in the in the how in the How to category? Not avoiding them and talking to your coach about them is a great start and how to sort of clear about that. So what do you imagine would happen or be different? If you had what you wanted, like if you had closure? And
I feel like there's lightness and ease. I feel like I've lost my best friend in the process of us just not communicating through a challenging time.
Yeah. What were the circumstances of the breakup?
Complicated. Um, so I told you two things there. I got COVID, I got really sick. I didn't cope well with it. I emotionally and mentally was not processing things. And I needed a bit of nurturing. He's a single dad was very busy. And on top of his full time work also took on another project. So had very little time.
In the context of the language here, what we could say is he had a very high allostatic load. Yes, you had
a very high allostatic load.
And so and so did you.
Yes. And my eldest static lobe got increasingly heavier. I returned back to work a little bit too soon and was not coping emotionally. I was breaking down every other day in tears. And for if I tried to push my endurance to try and get back my cardio, I would break down in tears. Two weeks later, my grandmother died. I shared that information with him. I never got a reply. Back. Were you broken up at that time? Pardon?
Were you broken up at that time? Nope. So he didn't reply assaulted me in a sense. So you guys are together in a relationship. And you share with him that your grandmother passed, and he didn't respond to you? They get that right. Correct. All right. And just so I understand, like, how long are you have you guys really decide?
And we've been out going out for four months at that point. So it's relatively new. It was relatively new, but this is the last relationship where we had been talking every single day, up until the time when I got sick. I understand. And were you guys friends before you didn't know him before the format's? We didn't know each other before. Okay, got it. Okay. I'm just trying to understand the context. Okay, great. Okay. So he did respond to something that I would imagine a partner would respond
to. And what did you do with that? I asked him, I asked him two days later. If he was okay, if something Something seemed wrong, and she accused me of emotional downloading.
Downloading Yeah, I've been I've heard a lot of people have accused a lot of things. I've never heard somebody accused of emote. What does that mean?
i Yeah, good question. I'm sharing too much. Like Like, like dumping it out on
ice. Okay, but we
hadn't spoken. Got it. So the context, the text message I had sent the two days before I was not coping very well with COVID. My COVID was a very I'm breaking down in tears every two days. And my grandmother just died. And I really needed a hug. That's that was the context.
All that sounds reasonable.
And then yeah, and then we did reconnect around the time of my grandmother's funeral and I was trying to kind of reach out and spend re To out and kind of create space for us to have time. And she got upset with me for suffocating him. When we hadn't spent any time together, all I had done was offer and ask for time. And at no point did we talked about what was going on for me. And then shortly after that I was in a hotel fire.
Meaning like, cause, like, it's when you stay at the hotel, or
I was staying at the hotel, and the hotel burned down, and I lost my hotel room.
Okay. Um,
I did share that with him. But I was very calculated with what I shared, because I figured he was gonna get so big, you
share that with somebody.
And I thought, you know, I'm glad you're okay, but very short. And then the thing that event that he was planning was completed, and I asked for an opportunity for us to go out on a date, which was something that both of us like to do. And he got upset with me for not understanding the amount of work he had to do after that. And then we yeah, we broke up shortly after that. But it was in a context where a safe space for having an appropriate conversation for breakout didn't
happen. And then I got hit by a car. Wow. While riding my bike. It's been an interesting year.
I just want to first acknowledge that. I just think it's incredible that you're even here right now, like so many opportunities for injury, death, and worse. Everything you've described, just so we're clear about that, like the fact that you're here and you're kind of even smiling.
I could have died. Yeah. Very, very, was very close to having died.
Yeah. God forbid you share that with your partner.
At that point, but I called him, alright, I messaged him when I was in eMERGE, he agreed to come. And then about 20 minutes later, back down coming,
I just need to ask you a question. And I can see this as an emotional topic for you. And I'm just gonna ask this question because I just I have to, okay. What did you see in this guy? Like, I just I because everything you're telling me, it's like, who's not capable of an emotionally competent relationship? It's not you based on what you've told me so far. So like, what was so great about
this guy? Besides he Brett breed was probably of legal age and had heartbeat like what else was good about him?
Interesting thing is that didn't start like that. It was a you know, the appropriate questions were asked. It was like, invited me in let me take care of you. Um, there was during the early phases. You know, there was one day where I was extremely tired. I had low iron, and he's like, let me take care of
are you anemic? Also?
At? Not currently,
I'm looking at like Superwoman right now. Sorry. Okay. Keep going.
You know, I'm finding that I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to rationalize his behavior, while being very upset for having very clear moments where it's appropriate to seek out and ask for help.
Yeah. I want to I want to show up. I want to pause on that for a second because I'm we're gonna get there. So while that those emotions, no, they're valid, they're real. And yes, we agree. And we're a place that right here for one second, because I still don't understand why this guy is causing you so much stress when he's not behaving in a way, like what was so awesome in the beginning, like, I just I gotta understand, like,
I think what I have it been,
I want to hang out in the first like, maybe like 30 days, 45 days, I don't want to go beyond the first 45 days right now. In a moment we can but like
I think it's it's
partly the whole era of COVID and he came into my life during a period where I was feeling really lonely. Okay, and I mean, I'm, I had things set up where I was coping and managing and I was doing a whole bunch of things that were just filling my time and space with things. He he showed up in my life during a period of time where
I really needed
what is what okay, I hear you, I live with you in the emotion. But I need to understand what is what is that? What do you need of that hug? You needed that? Somewhat talk to so, but like, based on what you're saying. I'm not seeing any of that. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Like you haven't said like, well, we would talk for hours or he would bring me super even like even besides my feet and gave me roses like, Am I hearing anything?
For like, three hours a day? Okay, in person on the phone messenger video.
Okay, got it. And did you talk most of them? He talked about this was it 5050 Was the balance.
Okay, it was 5050 for the most part.
Okay, so you guys had a a messenger FaceTime based relationship where you were no longer lonely and you need companionship?
Is what I'm hearing.
Is that right? Is there was there physical intimacy? Was there flowers? Was there? Like, did he take you on dates to the court? You?
We went on several dates when for dinner held hands. There was intimacy.
Okay, and was enjoyable. Yes. For both of you or just him. Okay. And like after you guys were intimate, that his behavior change? No. So he stayed consistent. It was
consistent up until when I got sick, and he got overwhelmed. Got it.
Okay. I understand. So it sounds like there was companionship. It sounds like there was intimacy. It sounds like there was good caretaking. And there was concern reliability. Yeah. Okay, now I have a little bit of an understanding of why you're feeling the way that you're
feeling. Because up until now, I've been very confused about, I'm starting to have a little bit more context is like, literally like the way you were describing the human I'm like, not an asshole, just like just like, not a relational person. And not someone that they would be worth feeling this way about necessarily, but now that I'm getting a little bit more of an understanding, I understand. So. Okay, so let me give you some frames to think about, okay, and then we can dive into the
emotion. That sounds good? Or do you want to do a motion first?
Wherever you want to take this,
okay? So I just want the emotions that you've been surfacing to know that we're going to get there. It's important. So so few things, in relationships, any relationship romantic, or otherwise, you don't know who someone is until you've been through two or three ruptures and repairs with them. Number one, okay, number one, and how somebody ruptures and repairs, to me is the greatest demonstration of who they really are, and or even better said what they're capable of. Right?
And we can think someone's capable of all kinds of things. But we, it's not that you want to start shit to see like, oh, how they handle it when so this is not like, that type of thing, right? But we do want to understand like, Okay, how do you navigate, rupture and repair? Right? When things don't go? Well? How are you? How are they? And when we try to repair something like how does that
process go? Until you have that information, you don't know who you're in a relationship with, honestly, but you don't know. Like, that's super, super clear. The next thing that's important to understand is that it is entirely appropriate for you to want to have a safe place to go to share about anything, honestly, it could be good or bad, right? It could be I almost died in a car crash, and I have a concussion, it could be my
hotel, burned to the ground. It could be I made a million dollars, it could be my grandmother passed away. It could be I just got a puppy, it could be anything else you can imagine, the goal of a healthy relationship is gonna give you this model is is to be a place where partners go to regulate, not to be codependent. But the goal of a healthy relationship is that your partner, most of the time, is a place where you can go to be safe and regulate
and vice versa. And the general rule of thumb is that you would like at least one ventral nervous system in the relationship at at least one right? If both people are dysregulated. It's very difficult. And that's what this that's the situation you find yourself in, you find yourself in a situation of mutual dysregulation, okay? And so that's important to notice is that the states are very important when we look at relationship because how people
show up is state. The third thing I'll say, and then we'll get to the emotional component. So number one is okay. What was the first thing I said, was so important to understand? So, you both need to have the goals for one regulated nervous system at a time. Number one, there is and it's appropriate for you to have the feelings that you felt, okay? You don't know who somebody is until you rupture
and repair, honestly. Okay. And the third thing is, is that I think, and as soon as I say this, I'm saying this as a bridge to the emotion, okay? I think the closure that you're looking for, you might have been like a double grief situation where this rupture, or this abandonment or betrayal or however you want to call you ever you like compartmentalize it, and you want to describe it, is probably getting you in touch
with something else. Because if you think about it, from a logical perspective, which this is not a logical situation, but through a logical perspective, a four month relationship
wouldn't be enough
to create this state, if there was nothing underneath it that was from before the relationship.
Does that make sense?
It's too short a time to feel the amount of grief that you're feeling. Unless there's also something else there. That's probably not always true. But I'm gonna probably take an educated guess to say, there's probably a double grief thing happening. And then that's kind of where I
want to pass it over to you. And like you to talk more about the emotions that you were sharing earlier, and wondering if what I've shared is surfacing anything else giving you a different perspective or curious about what you're doing what I'm saying?
I am not entirely certain what's underneath that. I think that's partly why I'm trying to figure out why I'm, I'm so angry. I think, I think some of it is I mean, when someone talks to you about kids, and you really want to have kids and you're at that stage of your life where that window is very small,
that
you don't want your time taken advantage of. And I feel like I've been taken advantage of. So let's pause positive there and pause. I think that feeling is so real. And I think the likelihood that that's your experience is like 100%. And I'm also wondering if that's the first time you felt that way.
The same way
have you ever felt like taking advantage of before?
And I'm trying to think of whether or not there's relationships, specifically where that's happened. And I'm trying a bit of a like, on that.
Blank because it didn't happen or blank because that's a probing question. Probably because it's a
probing question. So because my concussion brain is losing things.
Oh, that was concussion brain. Okay, got it. It's weird. Like I've talked to people who've had like Lyme disease and shit. And like they're super lucid. The second we start talking about their sensitive shit. Now they have Lyme brain immediately. Right? Like, cool. I got you. Maybe it's a concussion? Or maybe maybe want a soft spot. Maybe it's both.
I think I think that's likely that there are times where I felt like I was taking advantage up before. No, at this quickly.
Yeah, but not necessarily quickly. I just all I want to know is if the emotion is familiar to you, or if it's the first time you felt this way. I'm not saying the circumstances are the same. Yeah, this is I'm asking about the aspect of tone of this feeling.
Probably not. I'm just having a hard time placing the where,
okay. Okay. So we can simultaneously say that you feel taken advantage of here. And you feel like your time was wasted. And I'm sure he would have a different perspective, which is his to have and we want to validate your perspective as 100% true for you. That is your perspective. And I wonder you talked about being a caregiver. That kind of goes along with giving a lot and having the receiving part of you not as active which is sort of a recipe for feeling taking advantage of.
Okay? If you give a lot don't get a lot. That's kind of what taking advantage of is. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Because here's that here's the, here's the thing, okay? In relation is that I'm about to come in with like, right to the heart of the matter. So let's see if your concussion brain can handle it. Okay? Like, that's okay. You can tell them play it. That's good. So, so in relationships, there's all the details of who did what, when, where, why, how, and we run through it, we try to think about it. What happened when he
was six? Why did he do this? And you just have like this, like, thesis paper, PhD and the other person in their trauma and their nervous system and why they do what they do. It goes on talking about, you understand all the shit about the other person, okay? When really what we want is for us to have that for you. Okay, we want to understand for you, what's hard about taking up space in a relationship? What's Why is it hard for you to ask for something that you want.
What what happens for you, when your need isn't met? What goes on inside you? Right? Those are the questions that if we ask those questions, we're going to help you a lot. That's the that's the cutting edge of your growth. Right there. Right. So for example, just one example. So yeah, so my grandmother died. That's there's even other shit. You said, Let's just take that one. Okay. No response. What happens inside you when you don't get a response to
something like that? Do you know emotionally somatically cognitively what happens for you?
I got upset. I felt invalidated and not appreciated. And not important.
So when you feel that way, in this relationship, specifically, what do you do with those emotions?
Well, that point I reached out and said, Hey, what's going on? And you don't seem okay. You don't seem like you're acting like yourself.
But I suppose it's possible. I want to slow that I want to try to slow it down. We're gonna slow down yeah, like in the movies and they do like to slow down. And we're gonna do with the matrix timers to really slow down Okay, so what I'm hearing you say is when you get upset you caretake someone else.
I wanted to find f create a safe space for mutual communication because it felt
like there was something I wanted to do what you did was a little different. Because what you did is you asked if he was okay. Which That to me seems like caretaking Do you have a different word for it? Maybe I missed it.
Okay, so when you're upset you caretake Is that accurate?
I'm not sure I think it was a bit of a double compensation in that part though, because he had previously gotten upset with me for asking for a need Oh, am I and my caretaking when I said possibly I felt like I wasn't allowed to express what I need to express.
Yeah, so So that's a different scenario. We're gonna go there in a second in this specific situation. This frozen in time moment of you sharing about your grandmother feeling upset and then reaching out to him to see if he's okay just that frame alone nothing else. Just that moment we're just going to freeze that time for just a second. Can you see that pattern Okay, so when you see that pattern what happens for you in your body right now
I'm
totally freezing right now.
I see that I see that I can see it
so so when I
care when I'm asking for needs to be met instead caretaking.
The rest of your question was what
would you want as I highlight that pattern, just frozen in time. Wondering what happens in your body and it sounds like you freeze. So let's check in as you're frozen right now I can see some things happening in your body. Are you aware of what's happening in your body as you're in that frozen state?
My chest is cheap. I have a lump in my throat and I want to cry. Yeah, but you're not. There are tears. They're not falling.
Hello, wait, I'm smiling.
So do you see how you stop yourself from expressing your feelings? Now, is that the first time you've done that?
How often do you do that? A lot? Yeah.
I tried to intentionally try and express my feelings more than I have ever done before. Definitely. But I think in relationship, I find it hard. Because I don't feel safe. That's right. That makes a lot of sense. And I'm happy you're feeling safe enough to tell us that right now. The greatest gift I can give you is to help you become aware of how you set yourself up for this dynamic.
Which is not blaming you.
By the way, this is helping you have self awareness of how you do what you do. Like gives us that meta effective awareness how I do my emotion, meta somatic awareness how I do body metacognition, what happens in my thinking, okay, my behaviors in the context here of relationship. So when someone disagrees with you, or expresses frustration, what word did you say about how he felt when you express how you felt? And then he said, You said he felt what? Well,
I one point expressed, requested, better communication and to be a priority. And the response was, you need to take responsibility for your motions. And I need space. Okay, got it. Yeah. completely disregarded what I said. I didn't answer your question.
Completely did. So when when he did that you decided to do what?
When he did that. I initially said, Well, he, he said we need to talk and I need space. And I said, Okay, let's follow up and have a conversation. Let's set up a time and he didn't reply for four days. And then I was like, Kay, I something's not going on for me very well. I'm not thinking straight. And I went and I told him that I'm like, I need to go see my naturopath because I just was feeling everything completely off in my
body. Like I couldn't express myself and and like my brain wasn't functioning properly and that was post COVID Which it wasn't completely functioning properly. And so I had my tolerance for being able to express myself was also a lot lower.
Oh, you think that hold on a second, let me help you. Your tolerance to express yourself was stopped because he wasn't able to take you in.
No. No, what? No, I when I had
when I was in the initial phases of recovering from COVID I feel like my capacity to express myself effectively wasn't very good.
That makes sense. Especially with the brain fog.
Yeah. Which doesn't diminish the way he reacted. That's the dysregulation No,
no, no, you you do that perfectly already. I don't want to talk about you acknowledging your dysregulation honestly, I mean, you can talk about it if you want but I don't think that's going to help you. Because there is Yeah, okay. You have coping brain or whatever, okay? It's weird. When you feel safe with someone and you know that you're welcome there, no matter what the hell's going on with you. All of a sudden you feel better and you can share
ship share ship. Know, there is a difference between COVID brain and his lack of ability to take in your reality and what that does to you and that's the part you're missing. You're missing the impact on you when someone's not capable of meeting you in the emotional maturity that you need.
It's just felt so upset that
what I had shared had been disregarded. And that it was as though he was using relationship theories to back up the way he responded, that wasn't normal. responses to the hold space for that. And, and I eventually got angry and upset and started apologizing.
Yeah, but so yeah, so what I'm what I'm sharing once again, if when you can watch this, it'll be very interesting. If you didn't notice, when I bring him up, you come back to yourself a lot. Like, I want you to do like a 30 day challenge to take no responsibility for anything. Because maybe you'll take 1% less responsibility
to blame him.
I didn't Did I didn't say blame him. I did not say blame him. I said, take no responsibility for 30 days, because maybe you'll take 1% less responsibility. You are trying to take responsibility for both of you. Okay, and I understand. I understand, I used to be the guy that did shit like this a long time ago, you learn something and you think you know it. No, that is not how it works. Okay? Like the embodiment of one theory in relationship is
very intense. And if someone was really embodying any relational theory, you wouldn't feel the way you feel with them. Just so we're clear, okay. What you're missing is the impact his neglect has on you.
And because you're missing it, you're staying in it. He was trying to disregard it.
Same thing, disregard, but You're disregarding the thing that's hurting you, which is hurting you more? That's your growing edge. Because, example. Okay. If so, anybody? Well, if anybody if I texted someone, my grandmother died. And then I followed up and they said something to me, like, what did he say? Like you need? What do you say you need to be responsible for your
eye, he he, in that scenario, he sent me a list of his priorities over text message and accuse me of emotional downloading.
Okay, so, okay, so in a situation like that, if I was taking care of myself, and someone sent me a text message like that, probably wouldn't be in text, I'd probably call them. But I would probably reply with that's not a very relational answer. And it hurt.
did tell him that his actions heard it. Like, that was the response. He said, Take responsibility for your own emotions, right?
Which, to which to which you could respond, to which you could respond, that doesn't feel very relational to me.
so upset that, that, that is exactly how I feel. And yet he accused me of not being capable of being in a functional adult relationship and having anxious attachment.
Well, hold on a second. watch, just watch us watch us ready? You're right. I am not capable of being in a functional adult relationship with you.
Right, that is correct.
And if somebody is capable of that, that will be good for you. Right, right, see, the problem isn't what he's doing. See, okay. This is I would not call what he's doing gaslighting, and I don't really like using that term because it gets thrown around way too often today. Okay. And people use the term gaslighting as a replacement for disagreeing today. Okay. What he's not doing though, is he's not acknowledging your experience at all. What he's doing is he's
missing you. Okay. That's so hidden missing you ultimately isn't the problem. Okay. The problem is that you let yourself be missed a lot before you do something about it.
Yeah, all I wanted and is to be acknowledged as it is to be acknowledged by who? Well, I wanted to be acknowledged by him in this scenario, okay.
So again, if you acknowledge how you feel, and you're honest with yourself about that, You'll be in things like this for shorter periods of time, and you won't set yourself up and orient towards people who don't acknowledge you.
That's probably familiar for you, not being acknowledged. Make sure not like this.
I didn't say like this, the idea of not being acknowledged for who you are what you do, the value that you bring, the care that you have the love that you share, the effort that you put in, whatever it might be the emotions that you're feeling, there could be a wide range of things that you may or may not be acknowledged for. But it's not hard to imagine a helper healer person over giving and not being acknowledged for their dedication. And people just taking it for granted and
thinking that's how it is. And not seeing all the ways in which you help. That's really easy to imagine. I know I know, like everything everybody on the call is probably
it's, it's true. It's, you know, the occasional where you're like, you have like, I have people, but thank you so much. You've helped me so much your gift from God. But like, like, it never feels like it's enough sometimes. And it's very interesting. So you
have a deep need for acknowledgement. Yes, yeah. Just how often do you read read? Just like once or twice a day or once a month, or we think
it makes you second? Yeah. This is this is the classic HFT there are certain things we need a ft. All the time.
Okay. And acknowledgement. And being told that we're loved are two things that are critical in a relationship. And that does not make you needy, that makes him incapable of being in a relationship with someone who has needs.
Which is most people who are certainly anyone who's healthy.
See, what I'm helping you put together is how you set yourself up for this.
Which is not blaming you. So can you rephrase that? Can you repeat what you said, Not,
I can do that. I'm helping that action. I'm helping you understand how you orient towards relationships that you don't get acknowledged and that you can't bring your emotions to and where you go into caregiving mode or take care of somebody else.
And I'm showing you how you do that. It's not okay for you to be different. Or to have a different experience
a healthy relationship is differentiated, which is different than individuated individuation is when we're single. That's what's individuation as you get a divorce, you're individuals, right? A child moves out of the house and it goes about their life. That's individuation, right? Differentiation is how we're different but we're together. Okay, and if I the bottom line differentiation, this is what's going on with me independent of what's going on
with you. This is what's going on with you independent of what's going on with me two realities that coexist independent but together that is what differentiation is. And in a healthy relationship, it's the only way to be otherwise someone has to disappear
and you've been the one to disappear
wondering what's happening for you as I highlight that
feeling lost in a fog a little bit.
Because I am I am I am on a very tender topic for your nervous system right now. This is the this is the this is the cutting edge of your growth. Say what
you said, and I have already loaded my nervous system a lot this morning.
What I'm saying to you is, is the way that you learned how to do relationship, if I had to make it simpler, is you learned that the less needs you have, the more love you get.
Which is not true. I know. That's why I'm trying to bring it to your attention.
You learned how to regulate through taking care of somebody else. That is a beautiful skill set. But if it's your only go to, it's not gonna set you up.
I think I've also learned how to regulate by being incredibly strong and independent. And because other
people aren't reliable probably. So it's two extremes, one or the other. And that is a preexisting condition that would explain the grief you're feeling. Because that is not something you just started to do. See, if I had to put it another way, you went into a relationship with a lot of experiences of self abandonment already. And when he left when you needed something that just hit that same thing again, which is why it's a tender spot for
you. Because you were thinking to yourself, maybe this is someone who won't do that.
And I think it's awesome that you tried. But I want you to know that his behavior is not indicative of someone who knows what they're talking about.
What are you feeling at the moment? at a deep level, I know that what he's saying is wrong, and that he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he's been using it in an inappropriate way. It's the falling back on why I'm so angry. And that's that, that. So feel that stutters the concussion. Feeling like, there is a deeper need to look at that self abandonment. And, and I'm not sure what that means. Well,
what we want, our goal here is for you to notice the cues in your system sooner.
For when you abandon yourself.
There's emotional cues, there's somatic cues, there's all kinds of stuff that starts to happen. My body, I was so good. I like I like I like to use my like research brain. I didn't know this until after I was using my research brain for like a decade for good in some areas. But when it comes to my own self abandonment to just more, I bio hacked my way into avoiding my pain for a long time, if that makes any sense.
Like I figured out all the ways to numb it or push it away, based on mechanisms of action and research, to not feel pain to not feel feelings. I thought were somatic pain, like in the body, but they're actually emotional pain. That's called somatic decision. Right? And my body got so fed up with me that like I was thinking toradol, which is like the most intense anti inflammatory drug you can take. I was taking anti inflammatory steroids, the most
intense you can take. So I'm taking two types of anti inflammatories. And my body was like you, I'm still gonna hurt and be inflamed. And I was like, what? Right, it got to the point where I couldn't not feel pain. Like our body and our parts, at times can override the effects of medication. Which is so insane to think about that. It's amazing that that's possible. Right? So the opposite of the placebo effect. It's like It's like It's like It's like the NA SIBO effect, like not we're not
doing that. Right, you want to use the SIBO right. And the reason why that happened for me is because my left medial ankle is where it manifested. Meaning the inside of my left ankle, the deltoid ligament right there. Wherever whatever was happening right there. As soon as I as soon as I like this like pit is throbbing. I like literally held my ankle and I Like, if I were you, I wouldn't want to move forward to because that was the effect that could not move
forward. And all of a sudden, all these memories start coming back to me, of all the times I bet on myself. And it happened, like, it was like two or three
days. And like, I know my shit, I know how to handle myself, I've set all kinds of psychedelic set of ceremonies in circles, that 20,000 hours plus coaching people through their trauma, and it was the edge of my skill set to experience that, okay, like the edge, I was able to get through it, I had good help and support, but it was the edge of my skill set, okay, and I had like a psychedelic experience for like, two or three hours that evening, without drugs going on this journey of all times, I
abandoned myself. And I was like, overwhelmed. And how many times and it was like, not like I was choosing it, it just became normal. It was a normalized. And I was like, holy shit. And within like three or four weeks, the pain went away. But guess what, he comes back sometimes. And you want to know what I do. I noticed that faster, a lot faster. Okay, like, I'm gonna knock on wood.
Since 2020, I've not had to take really any pain medication, I just like, my ankle, I feel I feel some of my anger was going on. And I like it pause, like, and I'm like, okay, and that's from where for me it man, it starts the manifests is right there. Right. So instead of trying to ignore it, or push it away, or breathe it away, or medicated away, or massage it away, or whatever it away. I'm just like paying attention to it. And I noticed that faster.
And I haven't been injured since I wasn't even really injured, in a way. Right, I wasn't paying attention. So part of our goal in self regulation, is understanding your affective emotional, somatic body, and cognitive cues faster. Because if we can pay better attention to your emotions and physical sensations, you won't go as far along this path to get as deep as you've gone. And the anger is helping you find your way back. That's what's the purpose of anger. Anger is an emotion of
agency. Anger is an emotion of power, anger is a way to get your power back, it is identical biochemically to and feta mean, is a powerful emotion. That's trying to help you find your power. That is the purpose of anger. And there's probably anger directed at yourself. There may be anger directed at this individual. There could be anger directed at caretakers of the people as well. But it's it's a it's a therapeutic anger. I had to say it out loud, because I would forget later.
If I didn't say response notification, pay attention to your anger.
This anger that you're in touch with is therapeutic.
It's not, it's not destructive. Does that make sense? Therapeutic not destructive. It's helping you get back to what you need. You know, when I look at where it originally started, like I had asked for help. And then I recognized that I was being triggered. And I tried to share
that trigger. And then I started asking what was wrong because he was responding and around late, but I just I don't know why I started to dive in so deep to that point of like, I did initially recognize that something was wrong. And yet I continue to fake out somebody who wasn't capable of showing up.
It's called oxytocin. It's not your fault. Right. Many people don't know this, but oxytocin produces dopamine. So the love drug, right, the bonds you and unfortunately for women, there's way more oxytocin funding their system, the more intimate you get with somebody, right? So like sex, for example, or even kissing, but anything in between SIG kissing and sex, the oxytocin supply that goes into the female system is far, far greater than what goes into the
male system. Right? If we look at evolutionary biology, it's much more it's much more expensive for a female teammate than a male in terms of how much energy is required based on the consequences of that meeting. And so women, this is not a sexist thing. It's just like a biology thing. Typically women are wired in a far greater capacity to bond after sex or anything sexual. For that very reason. It's also usually why women tend to be more selective with their partners than men.
Because there's a greater potential downside if they pick the wrong partner for a female than a male, purely based on evolutionary sciences, not based on on moral cultural standards and earning potential and all that type of stuff. This is not an anti feminist thing. This is the biology thing I'm talking
about. So what that means is, when you get intimate with a partner, as a woman, you're rational brain that prefrontal cortex isn't as I mean, in general, the honeymoon phase is like, no, it's complete dysregulation, 100%, both parties, but the oxytocin bonding that can happen can be far more powerful. I can't tell you how many women I've I've talked to, who, like a guy who was like, no big deal. They slept with him, and they just couldn't stop thinking about
him. Right? Because it's like, the oxytocin bond is like, so powerful. And that chicken like lasts up to three years. Right.
So like, we have certain beliefs here around like, what has to happen for you to have sex with somebody if you're looking for a committed monogamous soulmate type relationship, purely based on biochemistry, not based on sexual moral morals, or any of those things just based on if you understand the consequences of your choices, or the likely consequences of choices based on the body that you were born with, and how the biochemistry of the body responds, in certain
conditions. Proceed, if you understand that, proceed, but it's important understand that because all of a sudden, the bonding overrides your good thinking.
Does that make sense?
So what do you do with what I'm saying? Hopefully, you guys can feel here. This is not an anti feminist thing. We're talking biochemistry here. Okay. The male female bodies are different in that way.
I mean, cuz I know that stuff, but it's just more of the take more time. Yeah. Time.
Because the time the time will give you the time to be in tune with yourself.
Yeah. And, and I feel like I got pushed a little bit into being intimate. And before I was ready, and I needed to stand up for myself.
And probably, that's not something that he was aware of was happening for you based on what you've told me. Is that true?
I did mention it. Maybe not as well, I don't know I mentioned it. And I mentioned it the day after we slept together the first time to that
I felt pushed. Okay, got it. So so let me help you. With somebody else to say, besides, I'm feeling pushed.
Ready? No. Not right now.
That's almost a smile, you almost smile.
How would that feel to say? Empowering? Yeah.
Do you know that you're allowed to say that? Yes. To this your whole system now.
Right now? No, but logically, I
know. Yeah.
So you're allowed to say no. And guess what? Some women I work with? They're like Mastin if I say no, he leaves twitch. I say thank God, if he leaves because you want to have sex with him. That is a win for you.
That's a huge win.
Right, because you going slower? See, you can go faster, the more interoception the awareness you have of what's happening in your body, right? The more you have that thoughts, feelings, physical sensations, the more you understand what's happening for you, the faster you can go and not get into too much trouble. Okay, but when we especially the beginning relationship, butter guys butterflies and the honeymoon phase, that's dysregulation that is not regulated state, okay?
That is a biological dysregulation to circumvent all the human attachment shit to make sure we procreate. That shit is not your heart, soul wisdom speaking. That is biology making sure that genes get passed on. That's all that is. Biology fit because you imagine if we had to work through all of our trauma before we procreated the human race would not exist. No way. No way. Right So, so for you, it's going to be so
important to go slower. And, and there are guys, there are lots of guys who are capable of going slower. Right? Because you want to try to, and timing on sex is like so personal. Okay, so so I'm not going to say how long you should wait. But I feel like you should probably have a degree of friendship with someone to understand who this
person is. And to have gone through some type of rupture and repair first, simply because of the dysregulation that happens once you start sleeping with somebody for a period of time. Right? There's there is that that oxytocin dysregulation, which is not necessarily a negative thing, if it's the right person, because it bonds you that person. But when you're in that bonding, you're not in your right thinking. So you want to try to understand who is this
person? Right, so I'm not saying, Wait till marriage, I'm not saying anything like that. I'm just saying, it's just nice to know who this person is before you get too.
dysregulated. Does that make sense?
Right, and there is that nr E is a beautiful new relationship energy that longer, like, if you can hold sexual tension a little bit longer, it can be very powerful. Because guess what, especially the heterosexual dynamic, do you know who has all the sexual power?
Woman, you, not just the woman you?
In general, men, just like women need a reason to have sex men just need a place. Right? It's like, Oh, my God, my male partner is horny. Yeah, no shit. Like, that's sort of just standard. Right? That's general how that is. Right? So what we want to understand is you have you have a lot more power than I think you realize. In saying no, and going slower in choosing and going slow enough to notice your own
internal signals. And to see how people rupture, someone ruptures and repairs, and to understand who somebody is, and to prioritize being with someone who has the capacity to keep up with the vast emotional maturity that's emerging in you. And that's how you can take care of yourself. And guess what, that is how you get closure. Because he's not going to give you what you want, probably because he's not capable of doing it.
At least right now.
Right? And so when you understand that, like, Okay, well, I'm trying to get like water from like a stone that doesn't have any water in it, like, maybe I should, that's my closure right there. I thought that was a water fountain, it's just a stone. Okay, got it. Because this is all about your relationship to you. And helping you get back in touch with these parts of you that haven't been able to slow down, slow down enough to know what's happening.
And they go right into taking care of somebody. What are you dealing with what I'm saying? Pausing and trying not to hold tension in my body.
You can transfer the tension to the relational dynamics. Part of a healthy relationship is shifting that relational tension to the person from time to time.
Right, we're used to holding a lot of tension for people what do you what do you mean by shifting it
like like for example, when he said something to you about like, you need to take care of your emotions, whatever. So he's shifting the attention to you know, actually care my emotions and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna take care of my emotions now. Right? versus, you know, that's not very related. is no thing to say that kind of hurt. Now shifts it back to him. And a good relationship. I think we kind of do this a little bit.
Does that make sense?
And a good a good partner likes to do that, or at least values doing that. Go partner will take whatever you're saying, and be able to have some feedback and go, This person matters to me, let me consider what they're saying.
And then
you won't have to worry about being taken advantage of because you'll trust yourself to not put yourself in those positions anymore. Which is not saying that what he did didn't have that impact on you. See, when you when we ended when we unwind these things, this is not excusing the other person. I'm showing you how you orient towards dynamics like this. Like, I think your quote Billy Joel, you can see when you're wrong, but you can't always see
when you're right. That's all Vianna is all about slowing down. It's a great song. Right? And it's like, I think that's important for you to set the intention. Because the thing is, when you slow down, you might start to come in contact with the parts of you that feel left behind or feel betrayed or feel like, you haven't been paying attention to them. Right? And they're like, that's gonna be like a process of like, okay, what do y'all need? What do you
need? Right? Okay, I need you to hold me and tell me that if I were you, I wouldn't want to move forward, either. Thank you. Okay, great. Let's Okay, now we now we're moving forward, we don't want to be so abandoned, okay? You know what, speak up in this relationship. See the thing and who here is ever maybe done personal development work, I'm gonna be selfish by show hands, you've done a personal
development work. And by doing that personal development work, you started noticing shit in relationships that isn't healthy. was ever started. Okay? But before you didn't notice, right? I just want to highlight the fact that you even are noticing things that aren't healthy is growth. That's growth. Now how you go about navigating that noticing? might need some work. Right? A lot of us notice some shit and then maybe pick a fight or girl passive aggressive or something
like that. versus knowing how to NAV notice it and go, Oh, my God, I'm even noticing this. How great is that? Let me try to make what's happening for me explicit in the relational field between two people and then just see what they do with it. That's basically relating. Let me just share with you what's up for me and just see what happens.
That's basically what a relationship is. So when you did x, I felt y. Over to you, Bob. Right? See what they do.
Oh, my God, you're too needy. Wow, Bob. Sounds like you have a hard time with emotions. Right? Or oh my god, that really triggered you that way? Hmm. That sucks. Can we talk about later, like after I've like finished a workout and dinner? Sounds great. Right? Just kind of depends, right? You don't really know what people are capable of until you're able
to pick that risk. But if you realize that relating is about getting to know someone and understanding how they show up based on how you show up, and then they get to understand how you show basically how they show up and they're both you're both had checking each other out in that way. You'll do some ruptures and repairs. That's not quite as devastating when you get four months in. Because at that point, you'd be like, Yeah, that makes sense. Or you probably would leave sooner also.
If neutral
people say they want a healthy relationship, but oh my god.
Do you? Are you sure?
It's a you sir. Because it's a hard thing to do. It's hard right to listen to take in somebody else's experience, no matter what the fuck you say. And try not to get triggered. And then to do that back independent of what they said
to surface things, the push to address the essence of an issue. Right?
That's that's, that's beautiful territory, but it's like is not easy. is hard. Okay, so Like, you just say you meet your guy your dreams, right? Because what? You'll then be challenged because he'll be available to. I can't tell you why, especially with women, women are like, Oh my god, I just want to just say to be with emotionally available, man, I'm like, Oh, do you? Do you really
unsure? Because if you're gonna feel safe and be with an emotionally available man or person, all your stuff is gonna be right there. Are you sure about that? Right. And that's true no matter how much you know, because guess what? Nobody enters their next relationship are ready for it? Nobody? So the question I want to leave you with, to ponder is do you want this to be a crisis that you learn from? Or that you repeat?
Doubt something I learned.
So so then what we want to really focus on is what happens in you? Why is it hard for you to assert yourself? And when would you like to start asserting yourself? And sharing what's important for you and sharing what you need? Yeah,
I need to learn how,
yeah, well, that's why you're here. Right? But but it's important to understand that there's your experience, and there's somebody else's experience. And to be a good partner, it's important to be able to service what's happening for you independent of what's happening for them. Right, let me ask you a question. What would happen? hypothetical, let's just say that you're having a great day, best day, your life. And your partner is having a really sad down day.
But what realistically do you think would happen? I think that's just an opportunity to hold space for another person in a positive way.
But what do you think would happen for you? Do you think you would still feel happy? Do you think you would want to join them in their sadness? Do you what would you like? Like, what would be the, especially if we hadn't had this conversation? Like, what do you think your go to would be?
Go to is to caretake. Yeah, so what if you were like, Oh, my God, like to hold space for them to be able to express what's going on? Not necessarily to take it on. But to be able to hold that space. That's what I want, in totality, you know, when I return?
Yeah, what if it wasn't just holding space, though? What if you're able to still feel good? What if you're able to say, You know what, actually right now, I see you're having a hard time. I'm enjoying myself. I didn't like another couple of hours. And then I'll come back and we can chat. Is that okay? I'm having a great day. And I also care that you're not like, Well, why didn't you do that? I just saw that would be your left side, you were like,
but acknowledge that's acknowledging what you need, but acknowledging that they have a need and taking time to acknowledge it, and come back to it. Yeah, you are ready.
Exactly. Yes. So you would see what you just said you would orient to them. And what I'm saying is, maybe it depends on the context, right? But you could be like, Look, you're having a bad day, I'm having a great day, I need to go keep having a great day. I can't if you're having a bad day, and I'm gonna come back a little bit later. Or if it's really bad, maybe you don't do that. Right. But we want to have the capacity to let someone else have a bad day. Yeah, does that makes
sense? I guess what if they can have a bad day, and know that it's not going to make you have a bad day, they'll feel less burdened? Also, like they have to have their shit together. Does that make sense? Like what would it feel like to know that you had to always be happy your partner was not like that would also be a problem. Right? So if I can be sad and you can be happy that I don't feel as burdened to be happy all the
time, like I just be okay. being sad also, like there's there's the other side is that there's actually a value in you maintaining the state that you're in independent of the other person, which doesn't ignore their state. That's a very important distinction.
Does that make sense?
So back to your original question about closure. What do you think you need to do to decide to have closure?
Making steps within my own life to assert myself and to take it slower and relationships. So don't put myself in a similar situation again.
And would that give you closure now or in the future?
Kind of future closure, but I think
I think this is very helpful. Going with the idea of a slower pace. Do you not want to have closure yet? Would you rather it be slower?
Would I rather that closure be stores
where you want to slow down your closure?
He don't want to feel angry. But I mean, maybe there's a point to
that group. And feeling those emotions, then we can't we can't do a grief ectomy like we can't take your grief out. But we can help you not be so incapacitated by it, and understand it for what it is, which is that there's something really meaningful for you that you've lost. And when you connect with it, you connect with how meaningful it is helps you get it again, in a different way. Right, and being in touch with that might help you reduce
the anger. But like this guy, like he was there for a season in your life. And hopefully, he was the last person you're with.
So that you can care take them right? Or not, that's up to you. What would you prefer just want a balanced relationship where both parties are equally willing to commit to being there for each other. So then the dance.
So to be in that you would have to commit to making your internal world more explicit to other people faster. So they also know who they're in a relationship with.
Does that make sense? Yeah.
And that's, that'll be a new experience for you. You know, sometimes when people are dealing with grief around grief around like love, you're like, I'm never gonna have love like dad again. And I'm like, Thank God. Thank God. We don't want love like that again. We want different love even ones with the same person.
Why are you smiling? Thank you. You're welcome. What's so good? Wow. All right.
All right, who just learned something? Let me see my show hands. Beautiful. All right. I didn't realize you're gonna have a deep dive relationship conversation today, but we did. So that's cool.