Hello. Hi. Oh, come back. Good to see you. I just wanted to thank you because LPA has been a blessing. Oh. And I'm really excited. I keep hearing, this next program you're doing is even better. First of all, thank you. And the work you've been doing in LPA is amazing. This is like a a Barry's boot camp for your nervous system, basically, is the way to think of it. Where we're gonna help build that capacity more. And it is really in many ways a foundational Kipp set for healing and for personal
development. And what we wish because we have, you know, therapists that are coaches that are inside our programs. They're like they're like, gosh, I wish I could teach this stuff or bring this into my therapy because it supports people who are in therapy or coaching. Because when you're not so scared of your body and your emotions, like, anything is possible, you know? Well, I think you probably remember. I was so overwhelmed with my mind before this, and I
was a pressure cooker. And now that I'm understanding myself, I'm actually more at peace already. Yeah. Well, you look at you look at your state looks very different. It's only been a couple short months too. So Right. Like, really, really happy. So are do you have a question you
want coaching, or are you just saying, hey. Yeah. So I guess where I'm stuck right now is, you know, being born in a family where I didn't feel safe and neither parent actually created safety for me, and then I had to break up the family and then we never talked about it. I realized my father was a source of safety and fear at the same time. So I
equal love to fear or love to pain. And I've been with my husband years, and I realize my defense mechanisms are finally coming down, and I'm realizing how difficult I've been, but I truly don't know how to feel safe. And you say safety is everything. And so for me, I feel like I'm a PTSD war veteran that as I've gotten older, it's gotten worse. So, first of all, thanks for sharing. I'm really happy that you are, number 1. Number
2, it's so good that you're becoming aware of these things. And the first thing we'll say is and I wanna make this distinction. Because I said it, but I'll say it again because, I wanna make sure the part that's asking the question here is what I'm saying. The goal is safety, but I'm gonna I'm gonna add a word. We want enough safety. Because if you think about it, is there ever, like, a 100%
safety? Like, probably not. Right? So what we want is we want you to start to feel safe enough to be able to, for example, share, like, what you're doing right now. So do you feel safe right now, like, perfectly safe? Yeah. Right now? Okay. Well, that's an honor. I love that. Appreciate that. When it comes to meaningful relationships in your life, is it the same, or is it harder? I would imagine Harder. Yeah. Right? So there's, like, kinda like if you can get, like, 50.00001% safety
Yeah. Right? There's a little bit more than half. Right? Then we can start to go in that direction because when we talk about defense restructuring, well, what does that mean exactly? We'll we'll share more about this tomorrow, but I'll give you a little bit of a preview right now. Defense restructuring, part of that is how you show up in relationships. Right? Because you can't really restructure your defenses just in the context of yourself. You're restructuring your defenses in the context
of relationship. And when we talk about authentic self expression, that doesn't mean the hills are alive. Like, that's not what that necessarily means. What it means is, oh my god. I'm so scared right now. Oh my god. I'm I'm really sad right now or and I'm happy or whatever it might be. And to create a shared context where both partners feel that way, because once you start to change, you're kind of changing the rules of the relationship. Right? And that can be perceived
as threatening to the other person. And so it it's hard when you're doing your own work to know that even though you're in touch with how scared parts of you are, it's hard to sometimes hold that that process can feel just as or more scary to the other person even if they don't show it. To the other person meaning Like your husband. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like you're changing all the rules, probably without his, like you know, like, he might be happy about it. He might not be
happy about it. But either way, it's I experience you as someone who's moving forward in your life. Right? So you're basically, like, alright. So this is how it's been for 13 years, and now I'm changing the rules, and I don't really know what they're gonna be. Right? And so we wanna be able to have enough space for him to be able
to react his way without it meaning that you collapse. And that's the hard part when people the problem with, like, the conversation today about narcissism is that first of all, narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnostic, like, mental illness that you have to that that that comes from a psychiatrist or mental health professional. Okay? Are there people who have narcissistic personality traits? Sure. Is there's a spectrum? Absolutely. From, like, healthy self esteem
all the way to malignant narcissism spectrum for sure. Here's the problem though. Okay? It's really easy to label somebody narcissistic Yeah. To avoid restructuring your defenses. Why did you bring up narcissist? Because it's everywhere right now. Right? It's everywhere. Right? Well, my father, I I titled him as a narcissist, but I I didn't think I said
that. No. You didn't. Right? What I'm saying is it's everywhere right now. And so it's like it's like basically, imagine people who, like, are trying to get in touch with their defenses, who are now aware of, oh, shit. I kinda gotta change, and I'm not that good at asserting myself. And and when I've asserted myself in the past, it was kinda dangerous. Right? So now I'm gonna try to assert
myself, and then the outside world doesn't celebrate. They disagree. It could be so hard to be disagreed with when you're first trying to assert yourself. Right? That you might label that gaslighting, which is intentional making someone intentionally question their reality, which is different than disagreement. 2 healthy people will disagree and not have the same perspective. In a in a healthy relationship, it's not about the objective
truth. It's about the subjective experience of each person's experience which is different. Always different. Right? And so when we talk about this sort of trend of labeling people narcissists, we wanna ask the following question. How good are you at picking up and maintaining your own space? Because if you're able to hold on to yourself, it's really hard to manipulate you. If you're able to assert yourself and trust yourself, it's really
hard. And I'm not talking about narcissistic abuse where, like, it's like you leave and, you know, because when somebody leaves a domestic violence situation, that's, like, the most dangerous time to leave. It's when you could possibly be murdered murdered and killed all the stuff. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about in, like, general, like, non acute situations.
It's easier sometimes to label other people narcissist than it is to say it's hard for me to take up space because when I take up space, I feel paralyzed, I feel panicked, I feel like I won't be supported. So instead of saying all that and know how to work through that, I'm gonna call you a narcissist to justify why I'm not taking up more space. And there is real impact from true narcissism. There is that both are true. When we talk about you being
the one who's getting coaching right now. Right? We wanna say, hey, It's hard to pick up space. And if I'm around strong people, which I'm assuming you wanna be around people who are they're themselves and and and strong in in one way or shape or form, Well, that means I may get
the strength of their support, and I may get the strength of their disagreement. And am I am I able to hold on to myself in the presence of someone who disagrees with me and not need to take the next step to say you're trying to abuse me on purpose by disagreeing with me. Right? Because when we say someone's gaslighting us, that's what they're that's what we're saying. Right? Is that you are intentionally trying to make me question my
reality to abuse me. That's what you're saying, which is Kipp pretty intense actually thing to say. Right? And so what we wanna differentiate is, are you able to hold on to your own experience, and can you learn how to experience hard emotion in relationship to somebody else who's also having a hard time doing it? Where there's a level of compassion for the other person that does not cause you to
collapse. And it's it's it's tricky. So the difference between emotional maturity and emotional capacity that we're talking about and tolerating abuse is like a fine line. Right? Because I'm not suggesting that you should tolerate abuse. But what I am saying is that if you're going to restructure defenses that are based in abuse, you are going to experience similar emotions from the past that were abusive, that feel abusive now, that may or may not actually be you being abused.
So maybe are are you I'm just asking. Are you telling me this because, like, my husband will shut down and abandon me sometimes when he just he just cuts me off. Are you saying that's a transference from the past, like, happening? What I'm saying is not exactly. What I'm saying is you are in the process of restructuring your defenses for yourself Right. And in a relationship. Those are hard. What I'm saying is it's also hard for him. Yes. And just because he's not making it easy for you,
that does not equate to abusing you. No. Definitely not. But the feelings in you can feel similar. Yeah. And this has helped me because I understand the transference potentially hurting you and just tough it out. Like, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, potentially hurting you and just tough it out. Like, I'm not saying that.
What I'm saying is defense restructuring for him and for you means revisiting old emotions of maybe abandonment for him or whatever it might be, shutting down, being overwhelmed, whatever the whatever's underneath their panic, whatever it is. Right. And saying, oh, here it is again, and you're causing it, but god damn it. I had this before I met you. Okay. Now or never. Because if I don't do it now, it's gonna be in the same relation the next relationship Kipp
the same place. Let me just deal with this now, and let me work through these hard emotions with someone. And that were and that would be both of you doing that, and that's a hard place to be. And that's why we wanna stop short because when you start calling it gaslighting and abuse, what you do is you question the other person's intention, and that is where all relational safety dies. Right? It's one thing to say, I have been impacted in this way. It's another thing
to say you are gaslighting me. And this is not to say that someone's gaslighting you that you shouldn't name it and bail. If we're talking about, like, a generally healthy relationship where there isn't a history of actual abuse, and you're working through old emotions that were abusive in the past based on real abuse, they're surfacing now. We We wanna really pause on the character assumptions that we make of others because it's just as hard for them as it is for you. And because here's
the thing, Women I believe this to be true. Women have, physically not as strong bodies as men, biologically speaking. But the souls of women is they're fucking steel. They're Kipp platinum. Right? Men have these, like, physically strong bodies with these, like, super sensitive souls in a lot of ways. Right? And so it's like a trade off in a lot of ways. And so when a man shuts down and does that, what's happening inside his system is
probably high levels of panic and vulnerability. That does not justify his behavior. Right? But what we want is we wanna make it safe enough for both of you to be in whatever defensive state you're in, understanding that both of you are trying to unravel years of doing it a different way. And that's
really, really hard to do. Thank you. Love that. Yeah. And what what I can say is this, that, like, when you feel like lashing out at him, a little trick that you can do that could be helpful is instead of lashing out at him, tell him that you feel like it. Oh, that's good. Like, instead of being like, right? You just say, I really feel like lashing out at you right now. So
you can honor that part. And if you could talk about it when you're regulated, he can then know that when you say that, that means that you're in a state of panic, and it's it's not personal to him. And you can say, it's terrifying if we even lash out someone, though, and tell them I feel like it. So, actually, ironically, feel safe enough to tell you that in the moment. So he can contextualize, oh my gosh. She's being vulnerable with me, and she feels safe up to tell me that she feels like
lashing out. I can hold this and not make it about me. And if you can pre negotiate that before it happens, when it happens, it's not so personal to him. And you're owning your experience without dismissing it and giving setting him up to be successful to support you also. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. So awesome. We'll see you back.