How's everybody doing? Good to see you. Excited to be here. I love this community. It's so great to have some continuity of care and community, which I think is so important. It's so much fun to grow and to share together, expand together. And yeah, here for some coaching, so if you'd like some coaching, please feel free to raise your hand. And we'll get started. Hello, everybody.
Sorry. Good to see everyone. Sam. I'm sorry, I have a question that about what I think is codependence so just to
keep me on track. So how do I get comfortable with the tension or discomfort, my choices and decisions caused my partner and in turn, it's actually probably more discomfort that it causes me if my choices make him feel bad because the more I choose myself and make different choices for myself and kind of do work on myself, the more I feel, sometimes the space between us grows, and that distance between us grows. And that makes me feel uncomfortable, because then my fear of abandonment comes up.
But then I can't keep on abandoning myself, and the things that I need to do for myself, in order to keep him happy enough. So I'm not saying I do everything to make him happy. In fact, we had a conversation about this. And he said, if I was doing that, you know, he would be happy and it's not. So, but I still felt like I was making sacrifices, like I stopped working in the evenings, because he didn't really like that, because it took away from family time. But that was
working really well for me. So I keep making these adjustments to keep him happy enough. But then it costs me and I don't want to do that anymore. But then I can't, it's really hard to handle the tension in me. And that discomfort of not knowing if things are gonna be okay. If I do that.
Yeah, a lot of care, empathy, compassion for the space that you're in. And what I will tell you is that, like, we don't, you know, we talked about the DSM, and we talked about diagnosis sometimes, but we don't really do diagnosis here. We're coaching organization. And also like, like, Um, let me ask you a
question. If you were gonna go to the gym, and let's say that, like, I don't know, the most that you could 10 reps benchpress at like 95 pounds, you'd get the most you could do 95 pounds for 10 times, right? What would you say about yourself?
How much is 95 pounds in kilos? I don't know. Like, I could only do that 10 times.
I mean, like, like, what's 100 pounds? And kilos? Let's just say that you can let's just say you could do 10. Right? At 50 kilos. Right? And what would you say about yourself?
benchpress. I mean, that's pretty strong.
Okay, what if it was only what if there's only like, 25 kilos? You only do 10
I'd probably go I need to work harder. I can do this. Okay,
you can do better. Okay, got it. Okay, so you work your work harder and you would have more cardio to do what? To get stronger. Okay. So you're building muscles what you're doing? Yeah, okay. But in the relationship if you're benching more than you can carry you call it codependency instead of getting stronger. What's that about?
Um, I I didn't recognize that as codependency somebody pointed it out.
Right. But but like me, but like, honestly, I understand. But hold on a second. What you're really saying is we could say it's codependent or not. And we could spend an hour or three or five, debating, but what it is, is it's hard. Yes. Yeah. Right. It's hard and you're putting in the reps and every rep is hard. But what are you doing? You're getting stronger. Okay, so is it codependent? I don't know. I
don't know. Right? I know, it's nice when you don't know what's going on to have a label for something because it gives you a sense of agency and control, which is super important. Okay, but I'm gonna give you a different label. Okay, I'm gonna say that what you're in is what's called differentiation, tension. Okay, it's the tension of being different. Right? And we know like with muscle, it's time under tension that grows the muscle with enough recovery
and nutrition. And obviously, there's too much tension we break or hurt the muscle, right? But the tension, it's just like going to the gym. It sucks. I was on with the one on One client yesterday, helping them uplevel their finances. And they said to me, like, I do not like you right now. Literally what they said, and I said, I don't need you to write, and today, huge breakthrough, right?
Because it's like, that's what we do in coaching, we push you right, that tension edge and then we help you back off and we push you that tension edge and we help you back off. It's like growth promoting titration versus just like, calm penetration. Right? So I want you to consider what you're building here is relational fitness. Not breaking codependency. Okay, yeah. How does that feel for you? As a leader? That feels
good?
Yeah. Because here's the thing. We're so good at finding what's wrong with US Army. I feel like I'm speaking in the third person for everybody here. I think we're so good going, Oh, this is what I'm doing wrong. Right. This is what I'm doing wrong. Right. So it may be if you're if you're benching 45 kilos, right? Maybe we hit you through critique your
form. Right? Maybe we could say, oh, you know what, like, we want a full extension, or whatever it might be, or go down further, maybe use your breath in a certain way. But like you contextualize it as building muscle from the get go, right? So I think it's really important as we start to think of, and I'm going to answer your question, but I want to start with the
frame first, okay. Like, part of a marker of healing trauma, and, and building a healthy nervous system is your self identity shifts, from a negative self perspective to a positive self perspective, or at least more positive than it used to be? Right? Because when you think about it, if I don't feel worthy of a deal, it's like, I'm enough. If I'm diagnosing myself, and it may or may not be true, right? I'm looking for
what's wrong, right. And if usually boils down to something about me as bad therefore, something about me as wrong. Versus Well, I help to help him go to the gym, healthy person would go to the gym healthy person would put in the reps, right? Can you can you see that? That slight shift in perspective? Yeah, absolutely. How does that just feel in your system? And then
that 10 years, this differentiation, tension nails that like that feels? Because that's exactly what it is. Like, that feels and that whole frame feels really good to me. Yeah,
totally. And like, if you were to say, Oh, no hurt a muscle, you had like a muscle cramp. We might do like physio treatment, and might help you look at like, Okay, what happened there, and there's a tear of knees and ice or whatever it is, right? But in the context of the gym, it's actually a fitness experience, when you when you get injured, that's when you go to physical therapy. Does that make sense? And it might be a combination of
both. But even when you're recovering from a physical injury and physical therapy, there needs to be some level of motion, some level of challenge, right? You can't just do nothing, right. And so I think it's important for everybody to think about what you're doing in your life through the frame of a Strengths context versus a pathologizing. context. What are you building? What are you growing? How are you getting stronger? What are you learning? What knowledge base? Are you
building? Right? And yes, is there codependency there? Yeah, but there's also resilience. Right, we focus more on the wound, sometimes and less on the resiliency. So it's like, and taking on that image and slowly shifting to like, you know, what, I am doing something right here. See, I think ambivalence like the wanting of one thing, versus something else. I think, ultimately, we could think of it as parts, right. But I think ultimately, it's our wounds, versus an emerging sense of self
that's healthy. And our wound doesn't trust that. Yeah, we're not used to usually people having our backs, we didn't have parents who took care of us, they didn't give us good advice, they weren't going to hang around for very long. But as you build a healthier sense of self, the things you think you should be doing or considering or wanting, is actually healthy. And the ambivalence is now a wounded part stuck in an unhealthy dynamic, versus a healthy part that's emerging.
And that can create a different type of ambivalence, right? Which is like, I think I want to do this, but it causes him pain. So the but it causes him pain comes more from the wound, and what you're wanting to do with yourself in the boundaries coming from a new emerging sense of self. Right? And it's like, do I trust that? Am I used to having someone having my back in that way? Probably not so much.
Right? So there can be ambivalence between parts that hold wounds, there can also be ambivalence between unhealthy parts and healthy parts. And when we have trauma, where we're stuck in too much negative emotion for too long, that dysfunctional dynamic feels safe. And the healthy dynamic feels dangerous. Because we don't have a lot of proof that it can be healthy for everybody else but you because you don't
have that proof. And what we want to do is slowly introduce new experiences and say, You know what, when I trust myself when I listen to this part when I looked at that WISEWOMAN inside, when I go to girl church, and I Trust that whatever inside me self energy priestess wise woman, right? She is going to help this wounded part of me understand, honey, it's not doesn't have to always be that way. And you're doing a good thing. And that will be partly bullshit. And it's it's a
back and forth. But what's happening in in between? Yeah, so you can have conflict internal conflict around toxic dynamics. But you can also have internal conflict between toxic and healthy dynamics. Does that make sense? I said a lot. What do you do with what I'm saying?
Yeah, that makes total sense. It all makes sense. And so the big part being the ambivalence between the healthy parts and the unhealthy parts. So the healthy part of me is wanting to move forward and expand and do more. But that wounded part is going on, but we're not so sure this is safe. So it's the ambivalence between those parts that's at play in this dynamic.
So with a wounded part, let's ask her a question. Where do you feel her in your body?
In my like, in my chest in my heart?
So let's ask her a question. And it's not how old you think I am. This question is, are you used to having someone look out for you?
Instantly? She said, No.
Yeah. So Can she see how the other part of you is trying to look out for you? Does she notice that? Yes, she does. Yes. Would she be willing to let that part of you look out for you a little bit more?
Yes. Go slowly. Yeah,
that's fine. I think the part of you that is looking out for you knows that. And that part of you that knows better that's developing a healthy sense of self, what do you want to say to the part of you that scared? That's never had someone look out for her before? who's worried that you're gonna go too fast?
Just yeah, that I've got you. I, you know, I know you're there. And I won't forget about you. And we can do this slowly together. And, you know, I can show I can show you that it is going to be you know that it is safe to move forward and do these other things. And it's going to be fun.
What's happening in your system as you as you kind of have these two parts, connecting communicate.
When I said fun, she kind of feels a little bit excited. She's like, Oh, this could be fun. Okay. So it kind of opened her up to being more curious, like, oh, how could this be fun? Like that? Was that just kind of really opened her up to possibility of like that the whole fun thing was bells ringing.
Your state has changed a lot in the last couple of minutes.
Yeah. Why is that? Because that part is, feels heard, acknowledged, seen, value valued. She knows she's not going to be left behind that she's coming along for the ride and for the fun. And that's
exciting for her. And she has a big sister that's looking out for that may not fully make sense to her just yet. But that part of you is there. And it's healthy, it's emerging. And she knows what's best for you. Now, can we talk to that part of you about this differentiation tension that you're experiencing? Yes. And if that younger part of you is there, let her know that she can speak up anytime. But I want to talk to the more adult part of
you right now. Okay, so, so, differentiation, tension is a predictable part of any relational pattern. So you're separate. Oh, my God, who are you? I don't know. You're amazing. Are we? Together, honeymoon, holy shit, right. And then all of a sudden, this is called symbiosis. Right, where two people just merge. And it's the closest biochemical feeling. When you're like, Oh, my God, I'm so in love, right to like what it's like with a mother and
a child in utero. Especially towards the end of the pregnancy when it's your mother is just like bursting with like, all kinds of opioids, and endorphins, which is like this like oneness, right? So that's when that symbiosis is so powerful. And it's nature's way of saying this human beings are too traumatized, and we're going to trick them for a second to make sure we procreate, and then they can work on their trauma.
Because if we had to work on our trauma before we procreated we wouldn't not make it that we would not be we have not made it this far as a species, right. So it's like nature's kind of like, let's just, yeah, they're gonna definitely be toxic, but we need to have kids, let's just get them beyond that to have the kids and they can work on that shit like that's, that's the best I can kind of put it together in simple terms, right. So the thing is when we're in that symbiosis, it's so great.
But the problem is to maintain symbiosis, we put parts of ourselves dormant. And usually it's covert or not intentional or unconscious, where it's like it's not, it's like an unconscious or covert agreement. And what happens is, eventually this goes from Bliss to hell.
Right, and you start to want to separate and that can feel like a divorce, it could feel like you're breaking up, it could feel like you're moving out, it could, it could sound like, Oh, this isn't working anymore, I think we should get a divorce, I can't do this anymore, I gotta get back to myself some some version of self service, self identifying statement, but everybody has to go through that. So right now, if you just stay in this, that's what most people in the West is called
marriage. You just get divorce and you individuate. Right. But differentiation is I need to find myself separate from you. But I'm going to do my best to stay in relationship, but I'm going to be separate from you. And I may need to take time, I may need to separate, we may need to define separation, what that means it means we're not being we're not going to be with
anybody else. But we're going to be in different rooms, we're going to be different homes, that could be one version of separation, it could just mean we're in different rooms in the house, right? It could just mean I need like three days a week, of an hour by myself, right? It just depends on how you define that separation, but your your, your, your, your self defining again. Right. So that's a predictable pattern. If you
understand the model, right. And then once you're self defined, hopefully, both partners are doing their work, you come together, but you don't do this, you come together like this inside a new relationship that includes a full expression of both of you. And guess what happens, you start all the way over again at a new level. Right? So it's just like spiral, who goes up like that of like, differentiation. Symbiosis, differentiation, symbiosis,
differentiation, symbiosis. And ideally, that's what a healthy long term for the successful fulfilling relationship is like. And when you're in the separation part of like, I'm different than you. I don't want that I want this that creates differentiation, tension, and how well you're able to hold and experience the other person's discomfort tells you how differentiated you are from that
person, right? If they get triggered, and then you get triggered, because they're triggered, you're still kind of hanging out in this, right? But there's a point at which you could arrive with the other person and go, you know, I really see how this thing I'm choosing that's not what you want is impacting you, and I'm really sorry, and I'm still choosing it. And I also really care how you're impacted and I'm changing the rules and I know
sucks. And I need this but you know what, I can also do this. Because there is some sacrifice in relationship if you want to be a full individual Don't be in a relationship, right? Is narcissism healthy? If you want to be single, yes. Super healthy because all about you. Right? Now if you're a narcissist in a relationship, that's not good for anybody. Right? Even if you're a have healthy narcissism, it's still not good. Because a relationship is ultimately about to people.
Right? Little check ins little Hey, I'm going here. Hey, how are you? Good morning, good night, all that all those little things are what make a relationship, right? But when you're doing this, it's important to say, Hey, I'm not leaving you. I'm just finding myself again. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah. And just having that communication?
Yeah, the more explicit, the better. And I always think like, my, this is my values. This is not like, an approach or whatever. Like, my personal values is like, okay, if I'm the one who's like doing the personal growth, I'm the one on the call. I'm the one learning about trauma, my nervous system, and then I'm realizing I want different shit.
I'm also the one who's saying, Hey, honey, so I'm doing all this work, I'm realizing that, like, there's another level for me, and I want to stay in this relationship, but I'm going to change the rules, and I don't know how yet, can you hang out with me? The rules are gonna change and it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna, like be scary, that I'm scared. But like, I want to do this with you, but it's gonna be uncomfortable for a little bit. But these rules got to change
for me to grow. And because I love you, and I love myself. So can we do this together? Can we change the rules together and kind of do an experiment? And you ever conscious partner or partners self aware? There'll be like, probably triggered, right? Scared. Abandonment stuff is gonna come up. But if you just kind of reiterate like, I'm not leaving, I just need to grow. Can we grow differently now? Eventually, they might say yeah, now if they're not able to handle that, that's a different
story. Right? But what you're doing is you're self defining, in a new way. And by definition, that's changing the rules. Yeah, now the rules weren't ever created consciously in the first place? By the way, they're all unconscious for the most part, right? No one's like, Okay, so here's the deal. I won't say anything, you won't say anything. And we'll just put
this under the rug cool. Like no one like consciously says that we just kind of just, like have a fight and then wake up the next day and pretend like nothing happened. Right, but it's not like, Hey, did you know we had a fight last night? We both agreed that we had a fight, but we're gonna pretend nothing happened. Yep. Yeah. Okay, cool. Like, that's not how relationships work. And they're always like covert agreements to get made, right.
So you're breaking those up. And the best way to do it is to focus on what you want, and how you feel. Not what they are doing. So if he's struggling, it's like, Honey, I really see that you're struggling with that right now. And I can see it's really hard for you, and I love you. And I'm sorry, it's so hard. And I'm sorry, I'm making it hard. But I can see how hard that is for you. The for you part is so important, right?
Because you can identify with someone's experience and not necessarily have to be attached to it or agree with it. But you can hold it and love it. Yeah. And you also want to clarify when you're, like, self defining ahead of time, if you're making a demand or request of them, right, a request is whether or not they do it. That's fine demands come with consequences. And a lot of times requests can feel like demands. Because people aren't used to saying no. So if you say, hey, sweet, ever
request. And what I mean by that is it's like it's okay to say no, but here's my request. And here's why it's important to me. That's different than like, if you don't do this, I'm out. Right? I don't really do that. That's what people do. But people do. And sometimes people hear it that way, even though that's not how it's meant.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that, like, I don't expect him to change and do His own work. I hope that with my growth, there might be some positive changes. But I think the most important part is that I'm true to myself. I want to stay in relationship. But my happiness is not dependent on what he does, as long as he's not, you know, deliberately making it hard for me. You know what I mean?
I mean, he'll probably make it hard for you, and it'll seem deliver, but it won't be. I think, like, I know what you mean. But I want to just like press into something so like, you don't expect him to change, okay. So like, why?
He's made it very clear that he doesn't want to in a number of things. So notice,
okay, so notice, he's made it clear that he doesn't want to change. So that tells me you've probably made a request for that change. And he's,
there was a situation with my daughter, where I asked that he speak to her differently, treat her differently, just that kind of thing. And he's like, No, she's the I'm the adult, she's the child. And even after after considering it, I've thought about this. And I'm not changing for her. If she wants to be she needs to change. I'm setting my ways and I'm too old to change.
So right, so then, so then notice, you had a desire, here's your desire. You're like, Hey, could you open up and give me this desire? He's like, No, so you close it. Versus No, I need you to change
he wouldn't I did. I tried and short of leave like shorter threatening to leave.
What's it looks like about how important that is for you then? Is it a blue? Is it a bright line? Is it a non negotiable?
She's 19 She doesn't even live here.
But doesn't that is evasive answer.
Is it if it were happening with my younger boys? Yes. Yes, absolutely. That is a it's a clear line. But then at the same time, then there's the whole board if we're together, at least I can protect them I can deal with them right after something traumatic might happen or he says something to shut one of them down and then I can be there and and emotionally support them and then they're then they're less traumatized, and then I can handle that
stuff. So it's a hard one, but we're getting into some competition. But I yeah, I if, if he were to treat the younger two the same way he treated her. That would be a line for me. However, I've noticed there's a difference in how he treats the girls because I've got a stepdaughter as well, and the attitudes compared to the boys. This just seems to be a real lack of understanding of what girls go through. I think Most men, the emotional and the hormonal, and the
no man knows my girl goes to home early. And so
they end it because he's emotionally. I think he has, you know, he, he's 50. So he was born in a time where men shut their emotions down and manned up and got on with things. So he kind of doesn't understand it when people can't do that. And when people want to explore things and think about them, and work through them, like, Why does your family do that just get on with it, like, but for us, we need to understand how we feel and work through it, because it's the way our
childhood was. And, you know, that's the things that run in our family, but he's just so just get on with it and get it done, which makes him very successful in what he does. But it also feels like he's
emotionally closed off. But then there is, you know, a lot of awareness there in terms of when we do talk openly about our feelings for each other, and our relationship and, and everything, I can see this very, and the kids, the younger two, especially there's a lot of deep feeling they are, but I just don't know, how far he's how deep his emotional awareness goes.
Because how does that feel for you?
That's when it comes to the kids and then not understanding the kids. And even my youngest is so sensitive and telling him you know, man, you gotta man up, you know, cry at school, you gotta get bullied or that's, like, you know, I then have conversations with the younger one saying, you know, it's beautiful.
For you years.
It feels hard.
When he behaves that way, how does it feel for you?
Feel for me, I don't like it. I make makes me feel worried for the kids that he's trying to get them to shut their emotions down, which is not healthy.
So when they shut their emotions down, how does that feel?
Well, my youngest doesn't, he's very, he's, he's super expressive, happy or sad. So he doesn't, and it's me. If they shut their emotions, and though it makes me feel bad, like, I'm not a good parent, like, I'm not doing a good job, like I'm creating trauma for them. That's what it feels like.
If you create trauma for your children, how does that feel?
Wow, that feels horrible. Like, it reminds me of my childhood. And that's not what I want for them.
So when he shuts them down and reminds you of your childhood, oh, that's
100%. Like he's there is likeness between him and my father, that the shutting down part. And then not understanding or the not listening to how you say you feel and then saying, No, it can't be that because if it was that it was, you know, not valid, the lack of validation and the shutting down, definitely, it can be really difficult.
And have you shared that with him? How difficult it is?
Yeah, but that's where he then puts his wall up and goes to birth, this is the way I am.
And when he says that, what do you do?
I go into my little stress response and kind of shut down for a little bit. We don't talk about it and we move on. We make that you know that those unsaid agreements you were talking about where I go, Okay, well, this is the way he is. And if I want to be in relationship with this person, I can't force him to change this aspect of himself. So I'm just gonna keep on running my little race over here and doing my the best that I can.
That right there is when you leave the relationship
when I shut down and then tap differentiate myself that
doing it on your own is not differentiation. That's individuation doing it as yourself and as himself together as differentiation when you're different together. You're talking about separating, in that moment when you like, I'm gonna go do it on my own. You've left the relationships. So you either know how to be a meshed or apart but you don't know how to be yourself with him.
It's really hard. Yeah, that's, that's, that's my challenge. That's exactly you know, my question. Like how I really is.
Well, when he says, That's just how I am. Normally you would shut down. Right? What do you think a different thing if you were going to be yourself what would be a different thing you could say?
Well, I would kind of go, I would express to him that I have a need to explore this further and that I want to do this with him. And to do it with him. We need to work on this together.
So instead of saying, I'm okay, so just shutting down doing on your own, you would say, Honey, so I hear that, you know, this is how you are. And there's so many things I love about how you are. And on this topic, it's really important for us, and for me, for us to grow in this way. And I feel like when we don't do that, it's like I'm repeating my childhood trauma. And
is there another word, I can
use my childhood wounding my childhood experiences that hurt me, right? Like, I'm repeating that dynamic. I'm not blaming you, I'm not saying you're traumatizing me, but I don't want to be alone in this. I want you to join me in this. And when you say that's just the way you are, I feel like I mean, what's true for you, I feel like you don't care if like, you're not trying, I feel like I'm not important if I don't know my
priority. Cuz you know, I mean, you hit thrown a little like, Jedi magic, you can say, you know, you're the man, you can do every set your mind tails. I've seen you do it. That's a little, little like Master bonus. Right. And if you do it soft, and vulnerable, we'll see. Right? But what you're not doing is backing down and shutting down. You're advocating for yourself.
And you have to advocate for yourself in a way that is like so loving, and understanding but also willing to lose the relationship when we're willing to lose relationship, not trying to lose it, but willing to lose it. Because if you can't speak up, and really advocate for yourself and face that fear of loss, and you shut down because of the loss of the symbiosis. You're never going to be your
authentic self. Yeah, I know, you're gonna compromise and there's certain compromises that you should compromise on in a relationship and not who you are. Right? You shouldn't if you have to compromise your values, that's too much. So you can compromise bedtimes temperatures in the room, you can compromise what you go do for dinner, you can do all kinds of compromising on things, what movie you're gonna watch tonight or whatever, right? But you cannot compromise your values.
And so the tension for you, is about continuing to assert yourself in a loving way when he evades the emotional depths that you're wanting. But when you check out with him, like you're just playing with that pattern. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And it would be great if you guys could do work together, because then eventually, you could just be like, Hey, are we doing that thing right now, the thing where you do the thing, I do the thing where like, you say that you
don't do it. And then I go check out and and we're doing that. Right? We're doing that. Right. Okay, the winner is the first person to point that out. It'd be great as you to get to that place. Right? Because we all on some level, want someone to help
change our script. And what you want to see is here's the thing about asking, Okay, when you ask for what you want, and then you have a way of escalating that tension, or the ask where it becomes eventually, like, a bright line after three or four times, or it's like, I can't go beyond this right? But what you're under what you're what you're really doing is you're advocating for yourself, you're not going from zero to 100 where it's just like ask ask ask ask ask ask, do you I'm out. Right?
There's like a predictable level of escalation. You're really getting a sobering perspective on the other person's capacity to give you what you want now. And the truth is, a lot of guys who are not introspective like that, right, sometimes have to lose something for one to three months to learn the value of it for themselves. Right I'm far too introspective for that to happen to me, I think, right? Like I'm always like when I just say what am I feeling all that stuff right? But I'm rare right?
So it's like it's like a lot of guys who just like hold real shit just man up and keep going. I have a part of me that does that but it's not let's say 1/10 of me right? Like guys that do that? Sometimes are the most surprised when the woman wants to leave? Well, what happened while she left like a year ago, honestly. You were paying attention. I actually left on May 12 of 2020 Honey Yeah, that was actually it but you haven't put even notice because you just
shut off right? And so like but you're what you're doing is you're you're advocating for yourself. You're not By backing down and you're willing to risk the relationship, not trying to cause difference. And you're getting a real sobering gauge of what is this person's capacity? Yeah, and that's, that's the correction. And it's really hard when there's so much on the line. But it's worth it and you'll respect yourself and so much anxiety goes down. When you can, like, speak up for
yourself. Yeah. I think if you can, I'm sort of coming to conclusion that there's like a couple of emotions like grief and anger, and a couple others, but primarily grief and anger. If you can get to a point where you let yourself feel those feelings of grief and anger. And it's okay, you can have whatever you want your life almost. Yeah,
it's funny you say grace, because my entire weekend when I'm like, I don't know if this is gonna work. I don't know if we can do this together. Like the amount of sadness and grief coming up in me was like, massive, like, I just didn't know what to do with myself. Because I want so much for it to work and the thought of it not working brings up so much grief.
Yeah, and that makes sense. And like think about this, right? So grief is this thing that you can't feel or you don't want to feel? So what are the things you just shut that down? compromise yourself? Yeah. So but then there's great there's different types. Yeah,
exactly. But then there's the grief alone right. Yeah, but I can't it's like I think that you've got a name for this to where you you you get to a point where you know so much about a thing that if you you can't ignore it anymore and you like you have to do this thing for yourself? Because if you don't you know you're just never gonna be happy and you can't sit there either. Yeah, that's that's
emotional threshold. So like, like just notice this Okay, notice notice this how much time energy money etc have you put towards minimize minimizing the feeling of grief What do you not say what do you shut down what do you inhibit? What do you hold back? So that you don't feel grief? Yeah, so much. So your problem is your relationship to Greece? Yeah.
I only just recognized grief was what I was feeling like prior to this weekend totally unaware
that that Yeah, I mean, like I'm with you like I literally like I really hate grief. But I like somehow NAFTA love it. I love your I love I love grief now yay. We love grief. Yay. It's like it sucks. But it's like it's like it's expensive not to feel grief. We're not to feel anger. Because there's things you don't do because of it right? There's
that fear of that emotion. Yeah, right let's say Dear Lord tell me what I gotta do to follow my intuition to be my best self to heal my trauma just whatever it does. Don't make it involve grief. That's my only it's like
it's like that meatloaf song. I will do and knit thing bow love but I will do that and that is feel grief Yeah, right that's why I think if you can if you can just be okay feeling grief which like that's like that's like saying if you could just like I don't know have like cold fusion the power of the earth without any cost like it's a big deal what I just said right?
Like, like if you can be okay feeling grief, you can have almost anything you want because like literally maybe somebody want to like call me to hear this. Your best life is on the other end of killing your relationship not the person right but the relationship right like we don't end things too well when we have attachment trauma, right? I've been watching the Jeffrey Dahmer shit on Netflix this killed however many people just because I didn't want them to leave. That's how intense is it?
Literally you're like why did you kill him? I didn't want him to leave. I'm like that's like Master sins abandonment depression spectrum to a whole other degree. Right. So it's like you think about like Dahmer and all that crazy shit, right? He just couldn't relate to people and had an object permanence, huge object permanence wound. He could not feel alone. Right. And that was like, you know, I don't think a lot of people go that bad in their abandonment, depression.
But I think we're Jeffrey Dahmer to our dreams. I think we kill our dreams all the time. Right, because we don't want to be left alone. Right. Now I'm not saying you're Jeffrey Dahmer. But what I am saying. What I'm saying is is like when I was watching it because I get into the psychology of why that is the weirdest shit happened. Like I want to understand it right? And I was watching the Dahmer stuff and I was like, this is just like borderline to the most
intense degree. It's like the most like spectrum intense homicidal rage, abandonment depression thing that I've ever seen ever. And it makes sense to me even though it's so horrific, it makes complete sense to me. Right? And so, you know, like, we do a lot of that. That's a very extreme example, right? But we do a lot of things not to feel alone. Yeah. Right. And like, notice this, like when you feel alone and abandoned, what's your breathing pattern? I bet it's not full deep. I bet you're
not fully. Sloth exhales right. So if you're gonna feel grief, like breathe in, hold that breaths. Activate the vagal brake, exhale when you're feeling grief, right? Part of the reason why we can't regulate our emotions is we're dehydrated, we don't have breaths, right? If you're dehydrated, your breath, you're gonna be really dysregulated. Right? But like, really literally like breath and hydration or like to add sounds
so basic. But like when you're when you have good breath, like, everything shifts and changes. And it's so annoying. Like, I really hate the fact that I'm talking about breath right now. Because there has to be something better. But it's like so basic and so fundamental. But like I don't know, a lot of people that when they're a trauma response, are like rocking their breathing. They're usually exhaling holding it out, like shallow breathing, right?
Versus like, good, long inhales when I started realizing the power of the breath, and I was like, I can reach psychedelic states in 10 or 20 minutes with the right breathing pattern. What micro dosing oxygen like what are you talking about? Right, it's but so much amazing stuff happens literally with hydration and breath and you can help you go into a conversation with more regulations. Right. I will also say this other thing, this is not a good long term
strategy. But another thing that you can do to minimize emotional pain in the short term is Tylenol. Talk to your doctor because you know, all the medical stuff, but acetaminophen, which is an analgesic that it takes away pain, also has been proven in clinical studies to take away
emotional pain. So acetaminophen can be something if you're trying to lose weight and you have emotional pain or if you're trying to set a boundary and have emotional pain for like a few days, you could do a short dose of it, and it will help reduce your emotional pain also. Alright, so you're breathing you're hydrating yellow see the minute vinyasa calm in your system. You have conversation in a different state. Right? Say you talk to your doctor
obviously. Right? But like, like, because it's the state. It's the state that really matters, right? Yeah. But no, because like there is like, like literally like there's like crazy data on like rejection of social isolation, how it increases inflammatory cytokines in the body. Like I mean, all this amazing stuff coming out around aspects of immunology, what happens to emotion, but like physical pain, emotional pain, so like, there are people who are like, you know, it's like they're trying
to lose weight. They don't need a craving, they need Tylenol, just for like, three, four days to break that emotional pain cycle. So they can eat kale and so sugar or something, right, like it's crazy. Crazy, super crazy. Like interrupts the pattern, right? And I'm not saying that you Tylenol is the answer. But I am saying that, like, there are these pain
cycles that we get into. And if you're breathing, you're hydrating, you're eating while you're in the anti inflammatory foods for the most part, and you're doing your best to reduce the emotional pain. Like you can have a better boundaried conversation to write you're putting yourself in a better state. Yeah. Right. And, and, and it's not easy, but if you're willing to lose the relationship, not trying to lose it, but you're willing to lose
it. Right to maintain a relationship with yourself, then you give the other person that chance to be an adult and show up or not. And guess what? Here's what's true. If it's not him, there is someone who's capable of doing it. And it might be a different version of him once he's lost. You see, some people don't change until they've lost you. Because they know they don't have to change because they're not going to
lose you. Right. When some when someone says to me, like what you're saying about like, Well, my partner just says that's the way I am. I'm like, man, they don't think you're gonna go. Right? Because if you knew if you knew if you knew that your partner was a company say, Hey, honey, this is super important to me. If you knew that that was so important to them, that they meant it. And you knew they loved themselves so much. And they believed themselves so
much. If you didn't at least attempt to change, they're gonna bail. You'd be changing that fast. Does that make sense? Ah, totally, totally. Right. So it's like, it's like, it's like there's, it's like, what? I'm just not wired that way. Okay, well, cool. Like, he's out eventually. Right? And let's see
how you're wired now. Right? We people sometimes need to understand like, that's the thing about, like, if you understand, like someone has that, that actual self care and self love, when they say something, it has different weight than just kind of like a hope and a wish, right? Because it's probably like, oh, well, we'll talk about it. And then she just, she's fine. She's quiet. Great. Hey, back to my work. Right? Versus like, what's right, I'm not saying try to
lose him. I'm just saying being willing to.
Yeah. Yeah. I totally hear. So thank you. That's, I just need to I think that emotional regulation advice, really important for me, because I find it really had to have a vulnerable conversation with him without bawling my eyes out no matter how well I prepare myself, like just the whole having a vulnerable conversation. Even if I didn't even think I was gonna cry, I find myself crying. And it's like, why is this happening? I just want to have this conversation.
Well, also, like, you can request him to be there with you while you cry and finish the conversation. He does. Yeah. Yeah. So like, Yeah, I mean, crying is okay. But like, literally, I feel like, I feel like on some level human beings, like there's a couple of like, Master lessons that we get to learn in this life. And I think one of the most important ones is the relationship degrees. Because you cannot love and keep growing. If you don't
have grief in there. You either grow without love, or you love without growth, if you don't want to feel grief, but if you want to grow and have love, you better be really good with grease. And we have attachment wounding or, you know, all that neglect and shift from childhood like that's really hard to affect to deal with, but it's just emotion. At the end of the day. Yeah, people would do this
retreat, right? Some people were like, you know, $6,000 and someone like on Instagram was like, I can't believe you charge $6,000 to help heal trauma but well how much did you spend traumatizing yourself?
I had a client potential clients say that it should be more accessible to work with it should be more accessible I
would tell that to have Meadows $40,000 a month you know, like come on, you know, like you know it's just it's just like it's really interesting how like parts come up around the healing stuff. Right. But like, oh, Louie Vuitton shoes and bag. AK no problem, you know? Yeah, doors, like I know what we're talking about here. Right? So it's like, but it's like it's a level of valuing yourself is what this is
really all about. And people change when there's a good reason to write if they know that they can get by with the bare minimum they will. And you're worth more than that. So thanks for being so coachable today.
Thank you. Thank you for listening and giving me the space