Trading Home & Garden Design Secrets with Bunny Williams

What are you going to do in a rum? What's this room for? And you designed for that? And I need a designer. Interior designer Bunny Williams has been called a trailblazer and a tastemaker, known for her classic but never predictable style she has developed or devoted following Over the years. Bunny has received numerous accolades. Among them, she's on El Decor's A List, the AD one hundred List, and she's been inducted into the Interior Design Hall of Fame.

No. Well, I actually am sort of glad because you always get there ahead of me.

I'm going to come to the garden tour the day before. Okay, Today Bunny oversees a thriving design firm and beautiful retail collections for home and garden. Joining me at Newstands Studios, right, here in New York City's Rockefeller Center is Bunny Williams. Welcome to my podcast. Thank you so much. It is so nice of you to make time out of your very busy schedule. Did you come in from Connecticut? No, I've been in today. I come in Sunday nights. Thank good.

I hate to leave it with all the daffodils and bloom and the magnolias.

Now, Ben Bunny lives in an idyllic home up in northwest Connecticut, and I feel the same way. I hate to lear farm right exactly, we are both farmers. Well, I want to talk about several things because you have been, as I said, a trailblazer designer. You've also created a very nice retail business with your designs of furniture and home furnishing and of course trade secrets, which is such a huge and very kind of philanthropic effort on your part.

Think University of Virginia, yes, where everybody in my family went, and we lived on a we lived out in the country on a country road, and everybody there were cousins and friends, and everybody was all about their houses. I always say that in those days you couldn't buy liquor by the drinks, so there were no restaurants.

I mean, people didn't go out.

They enter time they weren't home, and everybody loved their homes. I mean, I just have these wonderful memories of being in homes. And my mother was sort of, I think, a frustrated designer. She was always moving things around and going to the curtain Lady and thinking about her own home. And I was a teenager and I was very lucky to be taken to the Greenbrier Hotel that Dorothy Draper had decorated before before.

Yes, it was really just been finished.

When she did it was magic, and I learned what an interior designer was, and I kind of thought that's what I'd like to be. So it was sort of planted in my head when I was a teenager.

And you had Monticello to look at everything, the University of Virginia.

And all those beautiful all those beautiful houses in architecture. Me we went to look at it garden Week. I mean it was what we did.

So then you came to New York.

I came to New York. Where'd you go to college? I went to a junior college in Boston. I wanted to go to Parsons, but my parents didn't understand that I would be in New York City in a school that had no dormitory or campus.

So I went.

I found a junior college in Boston that had an interior design program, and I went there. And then I came to New York, which is I was dying to get to New York and we I got an apartment with a friend, and I was twenty and I went to work for as a receptionist in an antique shop which is called Staring Company, which the best of the best.

The best of the best. So, oh, you know, in my house in Maine, if I look on there are labels on some of the furniture the company. So those are good, right. I was great, very good, and it was a great education.

And then after a couple of years, I went and knocked on the door of the one design firm. I wanted to work for Parish Hadley, sister Parish and Albert Hadley, and I say to young people you know, if there's something you want to do, go find the person you admire the most in that field and see if you can get it.

I think that's the best advice. And you and if you have to sweep the floor, it's fine.

Right because I mean Kevin Sharkey came to me, you know, and he was packing and unpacking boxes, and he came from Albert and sister Perish too, exactly.

Exactly, and he and now he's head of the design. Yes, yes, so you know it's and what was it like we for sister Paris. Should you work on any houses on Mount Dessert Island? Well?

I did, But she's she's a character. They were so different but wonderful in their own way. And she was actually so when she was in her best mood was when she was in Maine, and when she she had a house in Dark Harbor. She'd grown up there practically, and I always thought, if we get her to Maine, she's always in a good mood.

She did missus Astor's house. I remember sitting in that house many times for dinner parties with David Rockefeller and having looking around at everything that sister Perry sh had done extraordinary.

She had a cutting garden, Missus Astor that was the most beautiful. I've never seen anything like it in my life. That was a beautiful garden.

It was. Indeed, it's right on the shore of Mount Dessert Island, looking right at on the some sound. Yeah, it's so beautiful. But how did they influence your style? Did they? Or they must? Well?

I think that what was great about Missus Paris and Albert is that their sensibilities were very different. She was very you know, cozy chintz, the kind of house that you're many pictures on the pictures on the wall, dot dog pictures, you know, very very sort of old fashioned English inspired interiors. Albert was really a modernist, even though he could do that beautifully.

Yeah, Albert was lines.

So I think that my sensibility is sort of an amalgamation of both of them. I hear them in my brain. Actually, I oh sure, Well, I mean I was there for twenty years. Oh you were right, I forgot So you hear them in your brain and sometimes we I fight with myself because I'm fighting with them.

But how many how many years did it take for them to give you your own project? Probably about ten years? Oh?

Really, I would say. I literally started there when I was twenty two. It was the shopper. I was the assistant to them on these projects. And what happened is to start to oh, you have to go to an installed, you have to make all the beds and put the lampshades on for sure, and anyway, what was happening is that people started to recommend me. So I was able to build a client base right.

To break off too, from that fabulous job into Bunny William's, Inc. It was that in New York City too. That's in New York you're on sixty first Street.

I was actually in My first office was on seventy seventh Street, across from Missus Paris's apartment. She used to drop in all the time. We remain very good friends, both of them forever.

Well. Albert was a jeer or two. He lived in Southport, Connecticut. Yes, and he was very friendly and so very nice and so respected in the design community. So you had the best of the best at that time. I did. Yeah, if you had to get a job, now, which designer other than yourself, which designer would appeal to you the most? Which designed Well, there's so many, actually, there are a

Wonderful book called The Tree of Life. And you can't believe all the people who have design firms, top design firms who came out of Parish Hady.

Wow, that's that sounds like a good book, a Tree of Life. Remember that, everybody, and look at it if you are inclined to go into this business, which is I think is one of the best businesses. It's so much fun. I have friends. I have you as a friend, and I've known Bunny for a long long time. Stephen sill is in my closest friend in bed back and uh and I follow his I follow what he's doing

Have to say this, in all these years, there's never been a day I didn't want to go to work, even when they're problems, because you learn how to solve the problem and you know it's not life or death and you just have to figure it out.

But it is an exciting career to have. It is such an e and you traveled to all the time, so you branched out on your own and was it fun from day one? Yes? It was? Yes? How many people worked with you? Well, I started in my apartment.

I had I took my coordinator and my assistant and so there were three of us and that in my own apartment. And of course I wasn't allowed to have a business in the apartment, but I didn't have an office. And then we needed to expand, so we got to about seven fairly quickly, and I moved to seventy seventh Street, and then we grew when we had people in the closet and working everywhere, we moved to sixty first where I've been really.

For all beautiful offices, so they're fantastic office. So your vision for your business what was it? What was the vision?

The vision was to do residential interior design that's what I love to do. I'm not a commercial designer. I really love to work with people on their homes. That's my passion. I love the relationship with clients. And that was the vision. And I always say that you know, one thing leads to another. And as you know, I was designing things I couldn't find. I say, I couldn't

And that was the beginning of Bunny Williams. H Right, Buddy Williams Home. You go online and look at all the beautiful designs. I have one of your chairs in my summer house, the one with the automan. Yes, that is such a beautiful chair and I like to sit in it because I love putting my feet up and I don't like to sit too much. You know that I don't sit very much, but that chair is very from The dogs love it, Oh, yes, they like they one could be on the automan. The French cheese, and

I mean I work on modern apartments, I work on traditional houses. So I hope in a funny way, I hate to say it, I would like somebody to not think it that I had done it. A lot of designers have one way. You walk in it, you know who did it. I'd like I'd like people to walk in and first say, oh, isn't this a nice house? Or I like it or it feels good, and then worry about who decorated it.

So no three words. It's it's eclectic, it's beautiful, it's gracious, it's comfortable. It's comfortable. Bunny loves comfort.

And also I like to make it work. I mean houses have to work. Where do you watch television? Where are you? What are you going to do in a room? You have to start thinking about that, what's this room for? And you designed for that? And I need a designer.

I don't know.

Still, I don't have a television except in my kitchen. I sit on a stool. I was just with people.

From a television company this morning, Bunny, and I said, this is my only TV and it's up high in my kitchen over my desk, and I sit on a stool to watch basketball games whatever. And they said you need to change.

Yes, and it's not good for guests either, who want to come in and watch the watch the Yankees play or something. My husband loves all movies, so I finally, my niece's husband, who moved into our guest house over COVID, said, Bunny, like you, this is just archaic what you have. So now we have a big television with surround sound. And John is thrilled because he never has to go to a movie house.

I bet he's thrilled. Do you find where's the furthest that you have traveled to design a house? France and France and many times or a couple several times. And what about England? No houses? I've never done a house.

Oh really, and your style is so appropriate. They have so many good designers. I mean they don't need to.

You know.

It's funny enough people say, oh, isn't that? Are you working someplace? The hardest thing you have to do is work in a place that you're not familiar with, because you have to find the trades people, you have to find the painters, you have to find the people to make things, whereas if you know an area, you know who they are. So half the time it's doing the research to find the good people to do.

What.

What's the largest house you ever worked on? Huge, huge, where I'm doing one now in Palm Beach, Cincinnati, Ohio. Big houses, big house Midwest big houses. What's the most memorable house you ever did that really you still think about in terms.

Of funny what you did. Funnily enough, it was love this story. It was it was a client.

It was people who were very good friends of good clients, and they loved their house, and they asked me to come and see their house and what I helped them on their house And I went to what I have to say was the ugliest house I'd ever seen in my life. I mean, I can't even describe it. And they had built this house when they were young. It

Well, that's why they were talking to you, because they loved their friend's house.

But they had to realize their house in my friend's house. Was like, well they do think that's why they So anyway, I finally I said, you're going to have to make a few serious changes here. They gulped, and he did it, and the house was actually very interesting.

Oh nice. I had to really take a big step back.

And so it's projects like that that are really really interesting and that you have to reach deep down about your creativity.

You have a favorite client, which client have you done more ultiple projects?

We have done I have a lot of clients like that. Yeah, now it's you know. I have one client that was my first client when I started my business. I actually had to show them the first scheme in my ambardment. I mean, and they're still with me, so I have you know, you have a relationship that's really.

I saw your Midwest client's house out in East Hampton, right, and I love that house. You did such a beautiful job on that house because it was like Spanish outside but inside so beautiful. I love that. It's really nice when you do walk into a room and you can tell who designed it, and Bunny has a style that because of the comfort, because of the beauty and the nice placement of furniture, you kind of know it's Bunny Williams and it's not. I'm not.

I'm very fluid, you know. I like, as I say, I always want a room that you can add something tomorrow. You can bring a bouquet of flowers. If it's too severe, you feel like you don't even want to be in it. I love rooms that Chris. I'm a shopper like you are, so I'm always Now are you still shopping? Of course you are all the time. For yourself. Well, you know,

I mean, I just went to a teg I go to tag sales. Oh yes, and I just went to a tag saale in Connecticut where I found right before Easter, I saw on the floor a bunch of little bunny rabbits, some wooden ones and some middle ones. But in the middle of them was this green rabbit and it was jade, and it weighed about fifty pounds. Ago hardly pick it up. It looks like old Chinese. Wow. And I bought it, you know, for nothing, and I had to keep it. I had to. I had to have that for Easter.

Well, but I'm always finding things and that's the most fun I think. Also, you train in your eye because if you if you really know what you're looking at, you will spot that. And people say, oh, I don't know what to look at it. I said, there's always something here, But you've got to train your eye.

Do your customers shop with you do you go on buying and buying. Yeah, see, I don't. I've never worked with a decorator on my own. Of course, you know, at in my company we've done so many projects, decorating projects. And Kevin Kevin trained trained a sister Parish and talks about it all the time. You really love that that job. Everybody does. Everybody who worked there loves that. That woman really character amazing. But but so so you know, I

Some some designers hate this. I think it's really interesting when a client comes to you and they have a lot of wonderful a lot of things, some good, some not so good, because I think it makes the space more interesting than if you just go out and buy absolutely everything for a space. So sometimes I find that kind of a challenge and fun.

Well, that reminds me of what Bunny Williams did at the New York Armory and the Park have You Armory For the New York Antique Show, Bunny Williams created a booth that was extremely controversial.

Describe it well, I you know again, I like to be out of the box, a surprise.

I like a surprise.

And I thought the Winter at Teach Show, which I love, is very serious and very you know, you walk through it's a stay is it's a stay thing, and they I and expensive. So I I was one of the honorary chairs and along with Steven and Alex Propercustidi's and they asked us to do a little vignette and I thought my office sat me down. They said, I said, okay, what are we going to do? And I went through a lot of things in my brain and I don't know what came up. And it was to me the

And I loved it. I thought it was such a nice juxtaposition to everything else that was at the show. And I walked around and sometimes I buy things at that show, and this year I bought the big eagle. Beautiful, that beautiful eagle, which I'm going to put in the center of my stable courtyard. Oh beautiful. And I had to take out a big round mill millstone that my contractor put there because it's curved and the eagle can't sit on it, so I have to take that out.

It was a federal Probably the earliest part of the house is eighteenth century. The main part of the house is about eighteen sixty and it sits up on a knoll. It's right next to the little town of Falls Village. And I bought it forty years ago.

And how much did it cost? One and ten thousand dollars.

I had no money and my husband I scraped together as well. When I bought it, it had about ten I now have twenty two because I've bought continuous pieces of property.

And I bought it because I wanted a garden.

I mean, we were renting a wonderful house and I said, I'm tired of putting something in somebody else's property.

I want a garden. Funny is very much like I am. Just really loves the loves nature. And you have beautiful plants. Oh my gosh. I love your lilacs and your hedges.

And it's it's a it's an addiction, you know, and you it's a life again.

Like anything you do, it's a learning process.

I mean, I think of what I didn't know when I started out, which was about probably nothing and I've learned earned and you it's a wonderful.

Thing to be And funny isn't funny without John ROSELLI too wonderful husband. Her wonderful husband who and they worked together in triage, which was.

A I knew John. I met John first when I was about twenty four. I was working at Parish Hadley and I went into a shop and.

It was a could triage then No.

No, this was John ROSSELLI John, he had his own business for years, and you know we were friends. I would buy there and I always say our romance started because one spring I went in and we were talking. I said, you know, I've never been to the Chelsea Flower Show and he said, well neither of I.

Let's go.

I was married at the time, which I probably shouldn't stay on a podcast, but anyway, and John and I went off to the Chelsea Flower Show and had I just had the best time with this man, absolutely, And that's where we got the idea to open the shop Trayage, which was a garden shop and nobody in those days had a garden show. Oh gosh, and I've I I

The thing about.

Objects outside, don't you find it draws your eye to something it does. And I always say it's the animate, inanimate and the animate, And all of a sudden, anurn or something draws your eye. And then you might say, look at all the silla, look at the things blooming around it, and it's just something to catch your eye.

Even structures too, beautiful perugolas and things that are very important in the garden. I put two bird beds outside my kitchen. They're not really they were bird bets, I guess, but they're old painted galvanized bird bets. And I watch birds drinking aliday. And it made such a difference in that garden because life came.

I had loved for years, loved bird houses, and I would buy them because nobody else wanted them, and I just love them. And I had this collection, and so I've taken the last piece of my property and I've created birdhouse Village and I have about thirty bird houses up on different different All the birdhouses are all different. There no tour like, They're all antique ones, and I've planted it with shrubs and things to attract the birds.

Oh it's that's see. That's such a nice use of a piece of profit. It is so great. And how did how did John influence your business? Did he did? He? I mean, you both of you looking at stuff, but.

Weather we you know, we were John and I are like book cands. I mean I influenced him, he influenced He really actually doesn't like decorating. He likes things. He loves the furniture, the accessories, the blue and white. And when we've done our own homes, I would show him things and he'd say, I hate it all.

And I said, what do you mean? And he said, well, I really don't like decorating.

I like sizel carpet, white walls and all my pictures and things.

Beautiful things. And while you've been decorating, you have also written an extraordinary bunch of books, starting with Love Affairs with Houses the first Yes, and that is a beautiful, beautiful book. So those were some of your projects.

Yes, well, A Love Affair with House was on my house in the conkay It.

And then there have been books on the projects.

And now in the midst of writing, I never I swaw, I wasn't going to write another book.

Oh yes, you have to.

So I'm doing another one. It's on the garden, it's on entertaining, it's on history, a little bit of I don't know. It's just a scrap book of lots of ideas.

So nice. And Bunny has also written a book called A House by the Sea. Which house was that? That was the house that we had in the Dominican Republic. Oh, talk about that because I go there quite often. I have a very good friend who house there, and I go down there and people say, oh, yes, Bunny did this, and Bunny did that. Well.

We were very close friends of Oscar de Laurentis, and when he bought this, he wanted to develop this property. It's called Pootacana, and we used to go there when there was nothing. There was no golf course, there was nothing, and we loved it. I loved the kind of simplicity of it. And we would go there once a year and Oscar said, oh, well, you know, why don't you buy property?

And it was funny.

John had had a big house in New Jersey that he'd inherited from his family and he was selling it and he said, well, why don't we build a house down here, and then I have a place to put on my furniture. So anyway, it was great fun and we built a beautiful house and created a garden.

Then Oscar join and then we sold it. We had it for about sixteen years. And is it at all down there? No?

No, you know what I it was going to the same place. I'm really not a resort person, and there wasn't an enough to do. It wasn't They didn't make a lot of things, and we were running a hotel.

Great for a week or two, but I agree with you, it's it's hard to go to the same place. This is Narrosis have a beautiful house. We just worked there at her at her house life and and the beaches are gorgeous and so many Bluehorn is my friend, she's her father built that place, the first place.

They did the whole thing. Yeah, it was so and I'd like to hear those stories. It's very extraordinary. Bunny has also written Bunny Williams scrap Book for Living and Bunny William's point of View and on garden styles. So now you're doing another gardening oriented book, probably more gardens tabletop And is there a style?

Is there a period and landscape architecture that appeals to you more than any other? You know what's so interesting?

I think, again, like everything, it evolves, I'm certainly influenced by English gardens. I when I first went to Sissinghurst, I thought I died and gone to heaven, and I'm I love the I love the sense of garden rooms. I love the sense of the spaces that you create because you can't you can't take it all in at one time. But then you get pretty inspired by looking at the new things of P.

Dudolf.

I mean, I just got his new book and I was just an amazing dying. But again, it's a different kind of property.

I don't know where he finds all those.

Plans, and I mean I just was overwhelmed by it. But it's sort of like, Okay, how do I It's again, like anything, I think, you have to examine what you have to work with you.

No, I haven't. He's prickly I heard that oh, he's prickly. He was the speaker and in Mount Dessert Island two years ago at my at my church where I have an event for the Beatrix Friend of Society, and he he was the speaker and he was fantastic, and then I asked him a question and he was so prickly. But but he's a genius incape. So you get you know, you get inspired.

And I think we all think about our gardens in a different way because of the environment. I mean, we have no water. It's too hot. I mean, it's it's changing. And anybody who doesn't want to deal with it go out and garden for two years.

So how are you dealing with the drought we are we're experiencing we are. I mean do you have irrigation? We have irrigation.

I mean I have wells, and I'm trying to really examine. I want to contain water that I can if it would only rain. So I'm thinking of, you know, more troughs. And I was even going to go down to tract Or Supply and buy one of those.

Big things they're great, and just break them.

Out to save water because and I think we're going to cut down on the amount of containers we have because that takes a lot of water.

And I'm letting very little lawn. Yeah, I'm trying to get rid of all grasses in the modern way. And except for one soccer lawn for MI, grants mean something and and the rest of it. I really want to just plant with things that will survive even even a dry summer, because the spring has been so dry in our area. And uh, and yet Bunny's garden is beautiful and my garden is beautiful right now because because we know sort of what we're doing.

But also you anticipate the future. This is what we have to think about. And all these beautiful trees, I mean they can't go without water, No, they cannot, the big ones especially. Also we're having the you know, that's why we have all the tent caterpillars and all of the deforestation with with bugs and things.

Because there's ash tree, ash tree, green borer, the emerald borer.

We had to cut down four well I did four hundred, and now I have beautiful wood.

I know, I know what if I got to do with all that wood, but it is it's really something. But what talk about your pool house? Because that broke all rules. That is one of the most beautiful structures and probably one of the most copied things that you've built. You know, it's funny.

We John and I were in We were shopping for trayage in South France and we didn't have a swimming pool, and John said, I'd love to have a swimming pool. You know, in Connecticut you swim for maybe two and a half months. So I did not want the swimming pool next to my house because I didn't want to look at a big empty pool. So we were shopping and we found these beautiful stones that had come from a bath saw and I put it up on the hill and apt past.

The apple orchard. So you sent them all over from France. So stones, oh, the beautiful The coping around Bunny's pool is memorable. But anyway, I put it up on the hill. But I needed a bathroom and a little kitchen because it's far from the house, right, and a place and say, because I don't like to sit in the sun. And I started thinking about it. In Falls village has a lot of Greek Revival architecture. We own a guesthouse. It's got beautiful columns.

On it and because it you know it's right adjacent to the woods. I thought, wouldn't it be great if it looked like the logs came out and made a temple, made a Greek revival building. And that's what it looks like, because it's and I had a friend give me the proportions of classical Greek temple, and so we built it.

And it worked. And the columns are tree trunks.

Yes, the old thing is tree. Oh yes, it's and then freezes pine cones.

Very yeah, it's very, very beautiful. So Bunny works at home as well as on other people's properties. But I think, I think you'll always do that. You'll always keep evolving and and building.

And I don't do landscape for other people. Oh you don't, okay, just for yourself. No, I said this too. Carpet never gets mildew, the chairs don't die. So I'll just doing it for myself.

So on another subject, your philanthropy, because that Trade Secrets is a show that is held every year in May where all the great great plant growers come together and antique dealers come together and set up somewhere. For years, it was at that beautiful farm. In our first two years were at our house, I didn't know about it. I started it with Naomi Bluementhal and Debbie Munson who were working in my garden with me, and I always say, it was a long cold winter and I said, we

And I said, why don't we have a nice sale. Then we thought, well we'll add the antiques to it. And then we thought well we'll do this, this and the other. And Naomi was on the in those days, WES which was what it was really called, which was Women's Support Service literally just had a hotline. And I said, well, let's just give the money to them. I mean, we never thought this would be a success. And the first

And then Elaine Laroche, Oh, yes, the LaRouche property in Sharon. Yes, up on a hill, a giant farm where how many several thousand people?

We now last year, last year we had to move it Elaine died. Unfortunately, I didn't know that they died. And I adored her and she had been so generous, but the girls didn't. They're running it as a wedding center and they her daughter, and they really was And Elaine had said to me before she passed away that it was really the last year at Lion Rock.

So we had to move. But Hillside Nursery, I mean, I you and I fight overes. We do. We want the species p and ees and we want the epi mediums and the epi medium lady. I know.

Oh, but you know that's the thing that's amazing about trade secrets.

This is twenty one years later.

Last year we had, you know, eighteen hundred people come, and we've moved to Lime Rock Racetrack, which is actually better. They have hard parking for the cars. You won't get stuck in the mud. They have you know, I hate to say bathroom facilities. I mean they're set up. No, no, really, and really we are making a big effort to make it beautiful.

And there's a lunch tint where you can have a delicious lunch or coffee in the morning. And I try to get there at five eight and so that really first in line. And actually I'm going to try to come this year. I don't know what time my granddaughter's recital is yet, but I hate to miss that because and those of you who are interested in plants, really beautiful rare plants four your garden, you will find them

And you have fabulous antique dealers, I mean Whittington World, Wells Artie Facts. They all come and we have new dealers this year. The other thing about Trade Secrets that I think is a phenomenal. The only reason it's been a success all of these years is the volunteers. They have over two hundred and fifty people who sign up to volunteer to cart your things to your car.

Now you buy, you let me describe how you buy, because you buy your plants and you pay for them, and they put them in a little grouping on the on the grass, and they put a ribbon around yours and your number. If you start with zero zero and.

You go all the way up to one thousand, I'm number one in Martha's number two, right and then uh, then those volunteers lug all that stuff in wheelbarrows and carts over to the parking area where they're put in big groupings.

My grouping is really big. I have to have because I buy so much stuff. It is. It's an incredible operation. And uh, and I do, I do, I do applaud those volunteers.

You all have tried to do it and they can't because they've never been able to. I said, it takes two hundred people to put this on, and and you can't pay for that. You can't hire an event planner to dote.

And they are the community is dedicated to So how much funny you do? Did you raise for the charity? A lot? A lot? Okay, well, and it looks like it. It looks like a lot. And I have bought so much stuff at that show. You know what's interesting too? I feel lucky that I've had a few good ideas, that being one. And my other thing that is growing that I'm very excited about is charity for our local animal shelter. And you know of dogs and cats as much as I do.

And we have a dog show that I started in New York kidt Hawks and I came up with this idea and it's called the Great Country Much Show and it's only it's only for me and we have my favorite class is the best lap dog over forty pounds and we have a chair and the dog has to jump in the lap. But it's growing too and hopefully what is that I have kids in June.

I'll get you. It's hysterical because I love dogs.

I know you do.

You have very fancy dogs. No they're not there chow chousies, but they are very friendly. I will not bring them because they will they will jump in that chair there, So okay, well you should bring one.

We had a cat that came to our barn and then just stayed, no, stayed, and then just disappeared. And that's heartbreaking because I want to well, we Blackie came to our barn, our greenhouse, and Blackie has stayed.

He's now been there for at least six years. So you see, Bunny and I can talk and talk and talk and talk. We have so many incredible, great experience that that are comfortable and in a funny way. But to find out more about Bunny Williams, you can visit her website at Bunny Williams home dot com and of course follow her on Instagram at Bunny's Underscore I. And to learn more about Trade Secrets, please visit the website

It's always we could go on for hours and hours. Yes, and I'm sort of glad that your aunt granddaughter is having her recital because I won't miss I hope I'll get some more plans.

Oh stop, there are gonna be plenty of yes, exactly