Besties with Kevin Sharkey and Douglas Friedman

introduced me to their besties. But these guys are best friends. These guys are colleagues. These guys have worked together for many years, and they've also worked with me for many years. And I have been seeing out and about with them at parties. Everybody always asks me, who are those two handsome men. Maybe they wanted to be a couple. I don't know. We're going to get into that. But they are good friends, best friends, and they are extremely interesting.

Let me introduce you to Kevin Sharkey from Boston and Douglas Friedman from New York. Hi. Martha, Hi, it is so nice to sit down with you on this very busy day. You know, We're getting ready for our great American tag sale, and I am beleaguered and besieged and really not bedazzle. Really, I am a little big aisled. So I'm glad you are here to interrupt the preparation for the tag sale and to maybe do a little shopping and a little advising. And this is what I

rely on these guys for. I rely on these two men for advice. I rely on them for their artistic to ns, and I rely on them for their incredible professional behavior in their jobs. So, Kevin, let's start with you, because I think I've known you longer than I've known Douglas. How many years have we known each other? We have worked together for twenties seven years now twenty seven. Boy, it seems it sort of seems like yesterday that you were unpacking boxes and doing kinds of menial work at

the magazine a Martha Stewart Living. But where were you before? Before I came to Martha, I was at Parish Hadley, which was an interior design firm in New York City. I was Albert Hadley's assistant, and then I came to you, and I've been there ever since. I have a very short resume very short and schooling. Tell me, I went to the Royland School Design. I studied architecture and it was a great place to go to school. And actually, when I joined Martha Stewart Living Magazine, you were the

largest employer of Risdey graduates. I know. I was so proud of the factory member. We had an inventor at Martha Stewart Living for Rhode Island School of Design fundraiser and it was announced that I had more graduates working for me than any other company. Yeah, and you collected Risney grads, but you had them throughout your organization. It wasn't just art directors or just stylist. I wasn't hiring just art directors. I was hiring textile experts. I was

hiring photographers. I was hiring people who worked with metal, furniture designers. What was your major? You were an architect architecture, an architecture major, and we placed them very carefully in our seven key core content areas. Remember and Douglas, when did we finally meet? We finally met, I mean it must have been about fifteen years ago. And I actually remember exactly when we met because I had become friends with Kevin, and then Kevin said, do you want to

come to sushi tonight with Martha? And I was so nervous, and so I remember we were sitting there at sushi. Do you remember the restaurant which was which is the one with all the student the beautiful kind of the bamboo. It was so beautiful, and we had the loveliest, loveliest dinner. And I was like, why was I so nervous? Everyone getting me so nervous about it? Was so nice I've dinner with you that night. And I think that's when we became friends. And then we started to work together.

We worked together a little bit. We did work together a little bit. We did a couple of photo shoots. One was a disaster, the first one. The first one, I thought I'd never worked with you guys again. But you see, we always give second chance. I got a second chance. We give third chances. I remember we were shooting Margaret Roach's house and I was such a young photographer and it was so new to the game, and I was so happy that, I mean, the most exciting opportunity.

And my assistant had loaded We were shooting four assistant and he had loaded all the film backwards, so for two days and we had shot nothing that deserves firing on the spot. But it was also you were shooting the editor in chief at the time her house for our September US a decorating issue, and commerce story was like a big deal. Like the day of the shoot, I thought my career was about to change, and the day after this shoot, I thought my career had ended. Well.

I must say you recovered extremely well. Douglas is now busy, and it could be busy, three hundred and sixty five days a year with photography jobs all over the world, all over the globe. He is traveling, he is peripatetic. I don't know anybody who travels more and does more in a week as a photographer than Douglas Freedman. I really don't. It's so many, so many. I just became an executive Platinum naming the magazines that you appear in all the time. I mean it's it's Architectural, Digest and

El Decor and then the international editions. It's really the ones that love shooting for the most right, and they have so many photo shoots everywhere, and you have so many friends with extraordinary properties. Are you doing mostly interiors now and portraiture. I you, I would say interiors in architecture, and I'm starting to get back into portraits. There was a moment I wasn't so fond of taking them, but you take very nice portraits. Thank you. Yeah, I really

love your portraits. And I remember when you were doing like Serena Williams, right, you were shooting her and you were so happy. I think you were nervous at that shoot too, but a little bit, but you were so happy with the outcome. Well, you know, ten years ago when we were I was doing a lot of work with Harper's Bazar, and you know, on a portrait shoot, you need a moment to kind of connect with your subject,

so and at that. This was before Instagram, it was before TikTok, it was before all this content needed to be created, so you would have the day with your subject to get to know them and to take a great portrait. And then with the advent of social media, the moment of taking the portrait became almost the least important thing on a shoot because all the other content had to be true, right, every and they asked for so much content. Now each magazine you have to take

so many things for so many different Instagram TikTok. As you said, you have to do it for online, you have to do it for a blog, and we have the same requirements now video you have to do video. Fifteen years ago, if I got to take your portrait, we'd have we'd have some time to take a portrait, and you know, connect a little bit. Now it's hard. It's kind of squeezing too much out of a day.

I think so, well, what it is squeezing a lot out of the subjroject and it gets a little bit repetitive, and so I think maybe maybe maybe things will calm down a little bit. Unless there is a new social platform that is developed in the very near future that's going to change everything, maybe something will calm that will simplify. If they could simplify it, that would be better. Because you have competitive Instagram with TikTok, with just the internet itself,

with Twitter. Well, maybe if there was a way of creating less content and making the content that was created more important, that's a very good point. Yes, I'm going to remind myself to post a little less. Well can you do that? Though? I mean that posting is isn't that how you get jobs. I mean, you're obviously establishing people know who you are, But isn't it important for your brand to be posting what? Absolutely, but maybe it's curated a little bit more. There's an idea that to curated,

maybe edit it slightly. Do you do what you don't do all your posting? You post that I'd do my own. He does his own. You do not do enough. And I see the pitiful number of photographs that my very important employee posts, I am kind of disturbed. And we're going to get into that. Kevin, Okay, I'm looking forward to that. We have we have some opportunities coming up

in the future where we could do some posts. Kevin is now e v P Executive Design Director of the Martha Stewart brand at our new company, which is called Marquis. And not only is he the director, but he's also co authored a very beautiful book with me called Martha's Flowers, A Practical Guide to Growing, gathering and Enjoying. And Kevin and I worked very well on that book together and it is a beautiful book. If you haven't seen it, listeners, you should take a take a look at it. Kevin

knows a lot about flowers. When did you get you love flowers so much? When I was younger, my parents like to entertain, and so there were always flowers around. I grew up with flowers in the house and gardens, and I worked for the Arnold Arboretum in Boston. I thought I wanted to be a landscape architects, and so i've just I've always been interested and fascinated by flowers. Why didn't you pursue landscape architecture? You would be very good at it, And you know, honestly, that's all I

want is to have a garden. I don't really care about having a house, but I do really like the idea of having a garden. Douglas and I were talking today on the way up here in the car, and I said that I made a critical error in leaving interiors. Um, I like to say that I don't actually believe that, but interior designers just make so oh much money, I mean so much money, the good one. It's staggering. And i'd obviously be the best. I know that my taste is better than most people I know, so I know

i'd be really good at it. But it's not too late. Nope, it's not. It's not too late, too late. It's never too late to change and change. As I always say, it's good. Not that I want you to leave, because I'm not, but you could do some design jobs on the side. Kevin Douglas Friedman is now a very proud homeowner of two amazing properties that I know about. One is in Marfa, Texas. And if you don't know what Marfa, Texas is or where it is, Douglas, when did you

tell us? God? Marfa, Texas is sits in the middle of the largest unpopulated land mass in the Arcas. So it's about three hours southeast of El Paso, Texas in the Big Bend region became sometimes call it occupied Northern Mexico. It sits there all by itself. It's a tiny little town. Actually, I think Martha you were there first. I think he won the arrival in Martha. I was there in six

photographing Martha as an art installation in the desert. It was founded by Donald Judd, who used Martha as his home. I studied all his furniture and stuff. It's a little quirky, but the art is utterly extraordinary. And now so many other artists have wandered down to Marfa and have installations, big installations. How many other artists have installations there. I mean Donald Judd created the Chinnati Foundation with the DA Foundation, so it's one of the largest permanent art collections on

the planet. So you have the permanent collection of Judd, m John Chamberlain, Dan Flavan has installations there, Ronnie Horne, Elia Kabakov and now there's you know, ELM Green and

drag Set, this German art collective. They built the Protest Store on the side of the desert, which was a temporary art piece that is now permanent because it's become so popular now Oftentimes when you look up Marfa, that's the first thing that comes up is this little storefront sitting on the highway that says product and there's nothing in it, there's nothing to see, there's no you don't go inside, you just drive by it and it's just a really beautiful piece of living art right on the highway.

A comment on consumerism. What brought you there in Marfa, Texas? The Donald Judd, He brought me there, John Folston, the architect, the English architect. He told me about Marfa. He got me very interested in the project there, and I wanted to photograph it for the magazine. We did the first big national magazine story on Marfa, wasn't it called Martha and Martha. Martha and Martha. I would love to see a copy of that. We stayed there for a while.

A cowboy actually gave me a set of silver spurs and flew me around in his helicopter and we drank tequila of all sorts in that tequila bar that had about a hundred and fifty different kinds of tequila, and we ate the best food. They actually let me have a whole dinner in one of the museums there, in one of the buildings. It was an extraordinary experience. And that's the kind of stuff that Martha Stewart Living did in those days. Very avant garde and also informative and

very inspiring to other people. I think it's sent a lot of people to Martha as a tourist attraction. But you have built an extraordinary life there in Martha. You built a house. Tell us about your house. You know. I went to Martha about ten years ago and and found like the end of the road. Like you traveled twelve hours from New York city to get to Martha.

It is such an extraordinary journey. And then you got into town, and then you go through town, and then you get on a dirt road and you drive three miles down a dirt road, which is a long, long way, and it's exhausting, and it's beautiful. And you passed double wide trailers and you pass cars on blocks, and you pass the derelict goat farm and then the dirt road ends and there was this perfect piece of land surrounded by mountains, endless, endless kind of grasslands. And I bought

it and I was inspired by it. And he has inspired many other people to travel to Marfa and also by property in Martha. It's really inspiring to see what you've done there. Thank you. So here we are looking at the article Martha in Martha with the Martha expert Douglas Friedman. What do you think Those are the rails that were built by Donald Judge, aren't they? And and look look at these look at these pictures that's in the old Martha National Bank building. Isn't it great? Oh

my god? Some incredible food and the food was amazing, all these salads. This is a carrot slaw. There's the preparation you had. Lou Lambert, I did. Lou Lambert was there grilling for you. Look at that from my house from the plane. Yes, I owned a shoebox like that. I remember. I owned the bun Shaft House Georgica Pond in East Hampton. And when you built your house, all I could think of was, Wow, this is like the

modern bun shaft. This is It's a much more lively and much more livable than the bun Shaft House on Georgica. But do you ever live in the bun Shaft House. I did spend a night there, but I didn't I never lived there, and I love that. I loved that house. I sold it for silly reasons, but sold it, and I'm sorry I did because it was quite an extraordinary place.

We did a paint story there. We did a cover shoot their of you holding a big picture was a February issue when it was a paint story on painting with pink. What Kevin does is an extraordinary amount of work for the Martha brand, developing millions of well, I can't say millions, thousands of products, Oh, I think absolutely for sure. And walking through the tents today, I'm looking at products that we designed over the years and it just brings it's like a flood of memories, a crazy

flood of memories. But the work of the brand is extraordinary. And when he says, look walking through all this furniture and stuff, it is, um, this is what's at the American Tag sail And it's really kind of fun to unpack a box and see that, Oh, we made this, and then we made that. And Kevin's worked on everything from the Keymart collections to the Macy's collections, to the J. C. Penny collections, to the Depot collections to the Martha Dot

FM home Decorators QVC. We go on and on and on, and Kevin has been intimately involved with each and every aspect of all that product development and also not only the product development, but the packaging, the creative design of the packaging too, and the colors. Oh find case of Europe and Truman Williams. What part of your job, Kevin, do you like the best? What I really loved? I like making content. I loved working on the Flower book.

I loved making those arrangements. I love you and I going on these shopping tours where we find things and bring it back and we, you know, perfect it, and then we make it so our customer can buy it. I like creating. I hate saying this word. I hate creating. I like creating content. I like finding things that we can make and sell. I like making beautiful pictures. I like creating stories that will inspire people. That's the part

of my job that I really love. Now. That part of my job I wouldn't say is necessarily the majority of my job now because I work with so many teams. So I always tell people that I feel like my primary responsibility is making an environment where the designers can create, because that's what I witnessed when I started working for you.

What I always tell people as Martha's one of her biggest accomplishments was creating an environ And were so many people, all these people that you referenced earlier, photographers and metalmakers and rammacists and textile designers and all these people putting together a world where they could create a brand that has changed America. Like to be a part of that is extraordinary. So I take that opportunity really really seriously. That's that's really what I like. And Douglas, when did

you get into photography. Wow, photography. I kind of fell into it because I didn't quite know what I wanted to do. Where did you go to school? I went to school in California, Occidental College, and I studied. I graduated with a major anthropology in a minor in film, and I was going to be a documentary filmmaker. And they very quickly got sidetracked when I got a job working with the director called David Fincher on a movie seven, which was I mean worked on that movie. I didn't

know that I worked in the movie Seven. That's one of the scariest movies I have ever seen, so brilliantly directed, because there's nothing really that graphick to look at. Worked with David Fincher on stuff, Really, what did you do well? I don't remember our direction and so scary, I mean every single one was such a brilliant manta Fincher constantly

directing and pretty not even more interesting things. So I was with David for three years on seven, Fight Club, in the Game, and realized that I wasn't gonna make like I was never going to be as good as a director as David Fincher was, So I try, So I traveled, I sold everything I owned and I bought it one way ticket to India, and I spent a year backpacking around India with ten thousand dollars in my pocket, and I spend it all. I got a little sick

at about month ten, came back to America. I couldn't quite figure out what to do. So I went back to India for six more months and backpacked, and I climbed to him A layers swice and maybe a woman played your part. I think that was right. But I went a little further afield. And when I but the whole time I was traveling and I was taking photographs, and I think that was my hobby. And when I came back to New York after this second and I needed a job, and a friend of mine was like,

Gill ben Simone needs a photo assistant. So I thought I could do that. So I went to be Jill's assistant. And then I got another job assisting another photographer. And for four years I was assisting, and I kind of gave myself that amount of time, and I assisted interior photographers and fashion photographers and portrait photographers and still life photographers and all types of photographers. And what I really

responded to was was the interiors and the architecture. I kind of that's where I developed my love for it. And it was a struggle because because they don't talk back to you, chairs don't talk back. I could spend hours with a chair in the room. And but you know, interestingly enough, all the editors wanted me. That everybody wanted me to be a fashion photographer. I think because I had tattoos. And I know why, because he's really attractive.

Don't tell him that raised severy curly hairstachio. He wears gold bracelets, and he has muscles, and he works out. Are you talking about serves? And he has broad shoulders, and he wears all black and white sneakers. What are those sneakers? Meda's, Dan Smith's. And the crazy thing is everybody seems to like him. I don't know anybody who doesn't like Douglas Freedman. You should talk to some of my exploit friends. Well, I'm not talking to them. I'm

not talking to the boyfriends. I'm talking to everybody else. Everybody wants to beat with Douglas Freedman. I go to Tennessee because Doug is gonna come. I go to Texas. This Doug is coming. It's like crazy, but picture for me, I'm always like, people are like are they coming? Are they coming with you? It's Martin Douglas here. It's like we don't all travel together all that, but we are going to travel and Kevin and Martha are going to go to Italy. Yes, we have quite a trip planned.

I can't wait. I really need a vacation. Have you been to Lake Como? No, that's one you've never been. Like Como is never going to be the same after Well, I'm going to call Mr Clooney and see if we can see his beautiful lot for us. I'm not hoping for any bothers some stuff. I just want to see. Okay, good Kevin Chew. Now here's here's Kevin. Kevin has two lives that I know about. Kevin has his work life with me, and he's and my family. Actually, Kevin is

like uncle TiO. He's called Teo Kevin by my two lovely grandchildren, and they live in the same building. They see each other all all the time. But then he has this other life, which I call, you know, the secret life. And he says, I know all these people, but I don't know any of them, and like, I call up, you want to have dinner? No, I have Monica, You have dinner. No, I have Tracy. On Dotatata goes on and on and on and on. He must have

how many godchildren do you have? Seven? He has seven god children and he knows all their names, and he knows all their birthdays. I mean, I think I have fourteen godchildren, and I have a lot more than but I don't even know you know who they are. Everybody wants me godchildren. I will remember you when I die. You're a real great quality, Kevin, is that you make time for your friends. I try, and that's a really really good quality, even if it annoys me because I

want you to do something else. You make time for your other friends. Do you remember that time, Kevin where you took like a week? Kevin is so busy, one of the busy, almost as busy as Martha. But you took an entire week out of your schedule and you drove across country with me truck. I drove it across the country. You can see in the middle of the seat, Yes, we had a bench seat. We were with our friend Lucas Wilson, and they stopped in every junk food restaurants,

fell in love with waffle House. I had never been to such a place. Or Dollywood. Yeah, you brought me to all these. There was this one story about it. So we were on this trip and we were driving across country and I was paying for it. So we would like every night, we would stop and we would get a motel room. That's why he stayed in a motel one room or one room. We'd have two giants like queen beds and Kevin, Like I would walk in with my knapsack with my toothbrush and a change of shorts,

and Kevin would come in with the anthony. He would drag these two enormous purple t anthony bags and he would get into the room and he would take out a plastic tarp and he would cover the entire bed in the plastic tark and put out his his fabulous she's the shamrocks? Did he have the shamrock? And he had like four sets of these sheets, And so he would make the bed and then the next day he would wrap the whole thing up in the plastic and

put it in his seat case. And then there was another one for the next time when we go on an airplane, he brings out the little pillow with the little port toe embroidered little pillow slip on it with a little borders of blue or green. He took an afternoon nap in that truck every afternoon. The little pillow he did. He said, you know where he was and where he was going? Did he read the map? At least he couldn't do that. He can't drive. He was

great time. He doesn't drive. Kevin Sharkey does not have a driver's license. Everyone just remember that. And you know how debilitating that is. I mean, we have much smart one. When I needed him to drive, we forced him to drive up Cadillac Mountain in a Jaguar. You forced me. It was more harrowing than driving up. It was driving down. Oh, I'm forced him to drive down Cadillac Mountain. Let me

just set this store. Are you straight? So we go Martha, her daughter Alexis, and I go hiking in the morning, and Martha drives her ed Soul, her prized ed Soul car, and then somehow there's a Jaguar there when we're leaving, and I'm like, why are we Why are there two cars? I didn't quite understand it. Somehow they had conspired to have another car there, and Alexis and I drove a Jaguar back and Martha was in front of us with

her car. And Martha is probably the best parker of anyone I have ever met, but Martha is easily distracted. So when she's driving, she tends to stop without warning because I'm looking at the looking at a deer eagle or some moss or a beautiful rock or something like that. And so you're driving down this mountain and she's in front with her car, and then I'm white knuckled in the back and Alexis is next to me, and I'm waiting for the moment you're driving. It's like a little

it's the dagger is so easy to drive. I don't know how to drive. It's not easy when you don't know how. So anyway, it wasn't as simple as just coming down the mountain, and I was I was sure that I was going to like plowing to you in the front and screw up the paint job of the car. And it was just I'm glad that's over. So yes, I don't drive, but I don't really miss it. I will tell you that. So because you've traveled so much, both of you, where have you been that you want

to return to? And where haven't you been that you must go to? Um, that's so easy for me. I've never been to Japan. I've never been to Japan, of course, yes, okay with us, Yeah, that would be a great trip. I love to see because I have a lot of friends in Japan, and I know I've been from the north to the south to the islands. When was the last time you guys were in Japan before the pandemic. But it's such a beautiful country and so much to see.

You have to go to Yokoshima, where the oldest trees in the world live, and you have to to Naga, know where they had the Olympics. Let's talk about the most important, the best, the Japanese food, the best and the healthy, healthy, healthy food. And what about you, keV. I really want to go to India. That's really really where I want to go. I haven't been. I was

there for two days a long time ago. But I was supposed to travel all through I was traveling all through Asia, and I was supposed to spend a month in India, but I was too thin, and I was I was just by that time, I had lost way too much weight and I was not going to be able to like survive India, so I had to come back. Where do you want to go? Well, I haven't been, because you've been everywhere. I have not. No, I haven't been through. I have not been to New Zealand, even

though never even though I went. There were a couple of summers, you know. I know I went to and which was beautiful. I've went all over Australia, but I haven't been to New Zealand. And I'm very very anxious to go to places like Outer Mongolia interesting really and I haven't been to Petra. Oh. I want to go back. We just talked about that the day that I have to see. And I used to want to take the

Trans Siberian Railroad. Not ever again. I'm never going to do that and I don't think we'll ever ever be able to do that again. But I think there's a Trans Mongolian. Yes, that would be very beautiful. But what's the favorite place you've been? Maybe it sounds so cliche, but I've been thinking so much about Paris. It's been such a long time since they've been to Paris. I think it's been about four years. Time to go, and

I think it's time to go back to Paris. I mean, there's so many places I love visiting, but for some reason, it's I mean, that town has its grip on me. We've had fun times in Paris. Remember the time Originals Original so much fun before Cherry just took over. Right, it was a little threadbare and you know, the rugs had holes, of the towels had you know, it was a bit Wes Anderson the first timember that time. The three of us were staying there for the fashion week.

It's definitely it's very glamorous now, very glitzy. My grandchildren experienced the new Rits and they had the best time. They spent most of their time down in the pool, having beautiful having afternoon tea in the little bathrooms. We were there together recently, four years ago. Remember we sat, We drank so many martinis up so there's little hamburgers. I just came back from Paris. It was it was great. The pandemic took its toll over there for sure, but

they're they're cleaning everything. Either of you seen the fallen true JOm, did you go by you did? What does it look like? Is it scaffold? It's being rebuilt. So the strange thing is when you go by you you notice there's light that's not supposed to be there because there's no edifice to block it. It's being redone, so it doesn't look shattered the way you would imagine it would look. That was one of the most tragic things that happened in France. But there they are cleaning that

everything is being regilded and washed and power washed and everything. Well, we have the Memorial Day weekends in Maine, one of the few traditions that I that I have in my life. I go to you like tradition though, I do like it, and it's hard to have it with the schedule I have. But you know, I have an annual family holiday that's been forty nine years, and I have mystique. Yea, So tell us about mystique because you and your family when you get there too. It's such a wacky little island.

It's so much fun. It's not what everyone thinks it is. But what do you think it is? I think people think it's you know, Princess Margaret and very kind of pretentious and British, and it's well, it's very British, but it's not pretentious. I don't think anyone wears shoes. And there's no like there's there's nothing to do, but it's kind of sit on the beach and talk to people. It's nice. We have so much to talk about and so many things to do together. Still, there are so

many campaigns that you can be shooting. There are so many portraits that I want taken. Martha's still building houses, so there's more rooms. And both these guys are two of the most charming men I have ever met, two of the most intelligent and creative and artistic men that I have ever met. And I really feel really lucky

to have you both as my friends. And we're going to continue with this podcast interviewing other of my friends because these are That's why I want to talk to I want to talk to interesting people and hear funny stories and reminiscences and hopes and dreams. So good luck with your new house, having good luck with designing gardens, good luck with possibly doing more landscape designs. Four acres

up the road here ready for Kevin's artistic touch. So thank you very much for sitting down with me, and I hope you enjoyed this. Thank you. I did. I really enjoyed this morning. Ward though Banks m