Will UFL’s Extreme Makeover SAVE Spring Football?

Well here we are here back not live to them, so I used to say right here, but we are live with Mike here in the present recording this no intro. Today, we're going to get right into everything. Mike Mitchell UFL Insider where Sports Illustrated, my only plug off the top. If you enjoy the work that we do here, like and subscribe, thumbs up the video. We're about one hundred subscribers away. We get thirty five hundred,

two free tickets to the UFL Championship game. It's looking more and more like I am going to be able to attend that, so that is exciting. But two free tickets, like and subscribe, get us over that hump. We are here today. One week following the UFL kickoff, I was in Arlington, Mike was on the show. We have Mike Mitchell, Mike, we have a ton of listener of viewers submitted questions. We're going to get to all those that have them. All bookmark first and foremost. We

got week one in the camp what do you make of everything? Best far with UFL? It was a lot of fun, Like as a fan, as somebody who follows these leagues, rights about him. I enjoyed every one of the games. I think, you know, there were some hiccups here and there, but I think overall it was a lot of exciting plays, a lot of players that went viral, a lot of cool finishes, some unique aspects of the league. I think it can only get better from here.

I enjoyed the broadcast. I've always been one of my favorite things about the USFL broadcast the last couple of years is I'm a huge Joe Klatt fan, big Kurt Man if you guy, and I like the Fox aspect. I know sometimes some people feel that maybe it's a little too much NFL ish, but I think those guys are so knowledgeable. Joe Clatt is terrific.

If you're someone who's a casual fan who doesn't follow these leagues and you actually listen to Joe Klatt, he's breaking down the tendencies of these teams the last couple of years. So what Birmingham likes to do on third down, what they typically do on defense, John Chavis's blitz packages, et cetera. And it's just like, if you're a casual fan, it doesn't know much about these leagues. If you're listening to one of those broadcasts. Klatt can teach

you a lot, he can get you a breast of the situation. So overall, I like the opening week. I think there's room for growth and improvement there and we made it to this point and I'm glad both these leagues have united and hopefully they can build from this season. It's going to be a fun ride. Yeah, I've done a couple I was on Rob Peterson's show today as we record this and a couple other podcasts this week. I think it went about as well as you could expect, right for a new

league opening. I mean, obviously this isn't really you know, it's a new league, but it's whatever. But to me, it just makes sense, like this feels like how it should have been all along. Right, if Fox and you know, Redbird and kind of had all got their act together three years ago. You know, you got games on Fox, you got games on ESPN, we're promoting Pat McAfee's talking to the players on Monday. It just it feels like this is kind of the prince that was promised

here a couple of years ago. We're getting here, sure, And kudos to Ben Fisher, by the way, he had a fantastic article last week leading into the Week one of the UFL's season, where he kind of gave

background. I mean, this is stuff that I reported in the past, how Fox tried to buy the XFL out of bankruptcy and Redbird and Danny Garcia and Dwayne Johnson kind of beat them to it, and how you know, Ben Fisher, to his credit, got quotes from Jerry Carr now from I believe Tim Reid from Disney, from Eric Shanks of course with Fox, and they talked about they had wished they had gotten together earlier, sooner, and

you know, it might have been a different world. We wouldn't have had this particular setup if Fox and Redbird had just bought the XFL and then waited it out and you know, brought out the league and all that. So here we are, you know, it's the the you know, it's we might not have had the Birmingham Stallions and all this. Who knows what teams would have had if they were just bringing back XFL from the grave again in twenty twenty. So I'm glad these entities are together, you know. Fisher

also noted something that's very interesting. I kind of flew over people's heads, and that they told him and they wouldn't lie to him. That Disney has partial ownership of this league as well. Now nobodybody knows quite the breakdown, but I think that's fascinating to have Disney, Fox, Redbird, Danny Garcia, Dwayne Johnson all as owners of this league. It begs a lot of questions, you know, because in the past, like these kind of leagues, the big thing is like, oh, can we get a TV rights

deal? But if you're the actual networks that own the league, there's no need for a TV rights steal. That's your in house league right there. It's all about getting sponsorships, you know, obviously, attendance, selling,

merchandising, selling off the franchises. So I mean it kind of eliminates the equation of, oh, I hope the UFL can get fifty million a year or forty million a year or whatever it is, right, And so because the networks already own them, so they're covering all the cost of production and paying for the expenses, and so it's a little bit of a different dynamic. Excuse me, If the networks own the league, we'll get to out. So as we talk through attendance ratings, all that today because we have

questions for all that. It's your understanding right now. And I know you talked about this on the pre show that we did, you know, thank you for calling in for that that busy Saturday. We're kind of getting through this year, and then it feels like we're on the kind of a two

year window right now. Right as we look at attendance everything. We're not going to freak out if next week we dropped, because I'll ask you here about you know, TV Ratto, is that kind of your understanding that we're at least Yeah, I've I've had talks with people directly in the UFL higher up, several people, and I know a lot of them have been kind of instructed to like kind of uh not let loose lips sink ships kind of

deal. But you know, from what they told me is that they feel like this is a new launching point for them and then the real test will come in twenty twenty five. Their expectation is that they'll get their footing this year. Their expectations are modest, and that they'll build towards next year. And I think, and I've mentioned this throughout this whole process. Both the leagues have merged because I don't think either side and they'll never say this publicly,

and I know this to be the case. They did not see the light at the end of the tunnel, and they feel by uniting together, by coming together, they can potentially because the facts are out there for anybody wants to see them out. Fox has been trying to rope in investors into the league in solo franchises for going on now, year number three. They've hired. Both Fox and Redbird have hired prestigious investment firms to raise money.

They haven't been successful in that end. So I think they're doing this because they both they're obviously very bullish about the concept of running and operating your own league. They think the concept is strong enough. Fox was so impressed with the XFL in twenty twenty that's why they stayed in this spring Pro football game with the USFL. So I definitely think that twenty twenty four is the launching

points of twenty twenty five. And then when we get to there, because everybody, you know, I speak to people in even in Canada, I've spoken to you know, I've been on a like you you're with Peterson there. I've been on Canadian shows. I've told to Canadian agents coaches, and they asked me, Mike, what do you think, like do you think this is really going to last? Because everybody's skeptical. You know, nobody will be surprised if this doesn't make it right because we know the history,

right, the graveyard is littered with these leagues. But they all asked me that I told them this merger has bought them two years. What happens beyond that, we shall see. So ratings came out this week, you reported, and I like to kind of preface, like while we do this, because we still live and die by all this every week, like oh I went up two points, it went down too points, But you know, just to kind of I like having the stage set here, like we have

a little bit of it of a runway here. It's not like you know, it's got to hit a certain benchmark here by week three or else this thing is kind of falling apart. But you report the ratings, right, we had one point like three high one point three for the Fox and the secondary game on that one point one and then nine hundred and the eight hundred thousand. What was your reactions to that? And then they all have the questions here from the listeners for everything else. What was your reaction to the

TV ratings? I know you wrote about it on Sports Illustrations. Yeah, it was a stressful Tuesday morning. I can't tell you how many messages I get from people, what's the ratings, Mike, where the ratings? Where the ratings are you gonna report it? I got a couple of messages like where you gonna get your ratings from now? And this whole time I've been getting him from Nielsen. And you know, full disclosure, this is not tied in completely, but I used to be part of a Nielsen home way

back in the day. It's kind of a unique science. It's not an exact science the way they measure audiences, Like you're responsible if you're a Nielsen home, you're responsible for that particular region. So like if I'm watching, I don't know, walking Dead, all of a sudden, my entire neighborhood is registered is watching Walking Dead? You know, So it's not quite exact

science. And you know, I'm a little old school, but there are so many different measurements now between streaming and out of home viewership that's not really calculated in So I was that Tuesday morning was stressful waiting for the numbers from Nielsen, from Fox. There are a lot of great people out there due to ratings, you know, Austin Karp and sports media, watch Sports TV ratings, all these guys, and then and I get those numbers, and

then I was surprised. When I got them. I had a feeling because even though this is a new entity and you consider it a new league, I see it as a bit of a carryover from what we've already seen. So I was a little bit lukewarm on how much appeal this would have for people watching. And then you throw on top of the fact that it's Easter weekend, and then of course the heavy competition that's out there now. I mean women's basketball has become so popular now too, that's really changed in the

last couple of years. And then of course the NCAA doing what they do, and then all the MLB stuff, et cetera. So the landscape is very difficult. So when I saw the numbers one point one million, one point three million, I said, wow, I said, and you know, I had a couple of people in the UFL reach out to me because they read my article Sports Illustrated and they gave me a little bit of a hard time of undershooting them because I thought they were doing that eight hundred K

range. So they exceeded. That doesn't mean I'm like absolutely correct, although I had people in the industry who read me my predictions article and they thought I was spot on. So when I saw the one point one million, one point three million, I said, Okay, wow, they did a little bit better than I thought they would. And then the Sunday numbers to

be impressive too. You've got that early start in San Antonio, eleven am start and they do nearly a million viewers on that and that's pretty impressive at twelve New Eastern to do that. And then they did seven hundred and you know, that game was kind of slow. Admittedly, the Memphis Houston game, it wasn't. It came at the end. There was a little bit of drama involved because the game was close and there was a chance for Houston to steal one. But it wasn't as sexy as some of the other games.

But I thought the numbers were very respectable. What's gonna happen now? Is you're going to see the ratings go down. I think the reason why you're going to see the ratings go down, and I'm sure there'll be plenty of narratives out there of how the league tank and look at so typical and all that, but they're running into a buzz saw this weekend. So again I'm very tame in my predictions. I mean, they're they're going to be

going up against the final four Women's Championship. They're going up against WrestleMania too, which I find that there's a lot of fans of these leagues that are also fans of the ww in WrestleMania is a once a year event, it's huge, It's two days, you got the rock wrestling in the main event, and so I think those are going to take those different elements are going to take away viewers from the league. The key is going to be the

follow up once March Madness goes away. Sure there's other leagues, NBA, NHL, all that they'll do their thing, but I think this league, because it has so many games on big network television, will by default when the season ends. I guess these leagues last year, although it wasn't an Apples to Apples comparison, they were what like in that six hundred and seven

hundred thousand range whatever it was for the year. I think this league will do better just because they have more big network games, so by default their yearly average will be better. And like they always do, the first week is the highest, the championship game is the highest, and we've seen that. To their credit USFL and XFL, we've seen their highest rated games take place the champion at least they're able to retain some of the audience that they

have or close to it when their championship game arrives. So the next few weeks are going to be very telling. I think there's gonna they're gonna take a little bit of a hit this coming weekend, but how far of it that means to be seen well? And also like WrestleMania is huge this year especially, I mean, you know some and I've I've been a wrestling fan often on my entire life, and you know, not all wrestling, you know, miss seeing a for ad field area, not all, not all

WrestleManias are at the same level. But uh, this has really been built into that, especially with the two day nature of it. Uh, a quick follow up and then we'll get in. Uh. The where you're talking about it being a continuation versus like a new league launching. I think that that helps maybe not have as much of a of a drop next week where maybe it's actual generated interest versus like, oh, this is a new league,

let's go check it out. Like I think, like, it's not like they've been marketing this for ten years, pushing to this date and everyone and then they're going to turn away. Like I think it being a continuation might lend a little bit more to like this is the actually the level of people that are invested in that? Does that make sense? No, Definitely, they developed an each audience. So the question with these leagues is I think they have I know there's a lot of people who are detractors of these

leagues. I think they've developed a nice floor. The question with them is how far can they get their ceiling? And everybody I've talked to is, you know, been and I get it, has been skeptical about whether or not that they can reach a larger ceiling. And I know the idea of these two leagues coming together is let's own this space together and perhaps we put our efforts together and we can reach that light at the end of the tunnel

that I was talking about earlier in the conversation. So I do agree read. I think there's a chance. We'll see what happens with this weekend, but I think they've developed. See, this is the cool thing about the USFL and the XFL now is you have established identities with these teams and leagues. There is legitimate fan bases for them, and it's like watching a show, like season three of a show, season two of a show. So

they have like they have identities. This isn't just some random new league where you don't know the players. There are guys like the Luis prez Is and Jordan Tamos. We all know the Skipholtz is the Bob Stoops there. So the audience that's been around for these leagues the last few years is along for the ride. So you got a dedicated group. May not be as large as other sports leagues, but I think that can stabilize and keep the question in the long run is the ceiling how high can they go? Can they

get higher? Because we haven't seen leagues in this space perform like the XFL did in twenty twenty even though that league was getting trash for their ratings. But I remember on Twitter where I would every week post sports ratings comparisons, and the XFL was beating a lot of leagues. I couldn't do that with the USFL in twenty twenty two. I couldn't do that with the XFL in twenty twenty three. But I remember some of my most viewed tweets and my

little whatever six year run now on Twitter were those sports. Because a lot of people were crapping on the XFL's ratings. I said, oh yeah, so I would put NBA on him, the NHL on ABC, and then compared it and it was funny, you know, like the XFL was beating the NFL combine. It was like the NFL combine. The XFL led into the NFL combine and the XFL got a better rating. And you know, I know it's different. I know it's guys and shorts, I get it

versus an actual game. But still right, so so anyhow, but I think the ceiling is the key on this. Have they developed a decent enough floor. I think they have a good product. I think it's a good TV product. I think it can get better, you know, and when you put into context too, like Seattle are like our regional sports is like completely bottomed out. Are the network that carries like the Mariners and the Cracking.

Like to put into perspective, do I watch a crack and every week, you know, this full blown production, They got big stars doing the commentary on that. I think root average is like thirteen fifteen thousand the game, you know, so it's like really puts in you know, when when the XFL pops off one point three million versus you know, this is not that I know that you hate hockey, and I don't hate hockey. I don't hate I don't just hockey. I'm just I'm as football as football gets.

Over the years, I've become more of a casual fan of all the other leagues, and but football is the one thing where I'm die hard. Yeah. E G wants to know what has been the league's reaction to radians versus expectations, especially given the competition March start. They're happy. Like I said, I got needled a bit because I said they would do eight hundred k and they ended up doing one point three and one point one million, So I got the other couple friends of mine where it kind of like teased

me about that. They're happy with it. You know, are there some people within the leagues that maybe feel that they could have done a little bit better. I suppose, but I haven't communicated with those individuals because the way I look at it is they really you got to understand, like, there was a lot of consideration about this league starting in February or starting the week after the Super Bowl, but they just didn't have time to pull that off.

Next year's timeline might be a lot different than this was, so they went right. They went right, smack right in the middle. Usually what we get would like say, the XFL starting in February the af is although the AF didn't get a chance to finish the deal they did the XFL in twenty twenty. But what ends up happening is by week four, Week five, week six, you can afford to take a hit with your league. You know, if you're going directly against March madness, you're like, all

right, I'll take our lumps for a few weeks. They'll go away, and then the end of our season will build up to the playoffs and we'll do better then. But to debut launch this league week one against it, right in the heart of it, right in the wind of the storm, so to speak. That's a tough one. So they were really pleased that people I spoke to were really pleased that they were surprised that the Some people

were surprised by the numbers. And they were attendants too, cause, like you know, I know, they're really prideful about how hard they're working. And I could see a lot of the teams are doing fifteen dollars deals and all these different deals, and they're trying to you know, give doing free ticket giveaways and all this stuff. They're really trying to rope in people.

So they didn't really have a lot of time to make this work. I know we've heard that excuse before, but I think, you know, the true measurement for a lot of this stuff, the ratings and attendance, is really going to come a year from now. But so far, to answer the question, they're please with what they've seen. Well, especially that second game going up against Kaitlyn Clark and all that, and that was twelve point

nine million. I mean, it completely blows the water out of you know, everything that's really coming that space before Adue wants to know what is the percent chance speaking of the start, the percent chance of the twenty twenty five season starts earlier mid February. Based on Reid's conversation with Daryl, it feels like it's heading towards that. Yeah, I think the discussion was initially for them to be after the Super Bowl. There are so many arguments for and

against that. One of the arguments, there's a couple different arguments, Well, if you launch after the super Bowl, you don't obviously run into what they're running into now, March madness and all that. You also run into a situation where you're in the dead of winter where you have more people that are at home, So there's an argument for that. If your timeline is later, you run into the spring and summer where more families are outside and

they're not at home early Saturday afternoons doing things, you know. So then and then, of course agents and players prefer for their players for their season to wrap up before NFL teams have many camps and all that, so it gives it, Like we saw last year, both leagues have quality talent, but the XFL ended up having sixty nine players that signed with the NFL and

signed NFL contracts, not counting all the mini camp invite guys. So sixty nine signed and then forty two signed on the USFL side, So that's one hundred and eleven players total. So you can still get a good amount of players if your season ends in June or July, is evidenced by the forty two, but hey, sixty nine, forty two or twenty seven more opportunities there. So, so I mean agents and players want to have a better

opportunity to get in the NFL. You got thirty five players right now from the XFL and the USFL, and twenty twenty three that are currently rostered in the NFL. So thirty percent of the players that signed ended up in the league. We'll see if they make it for next season, but hey, they got a job in the NFL. So that's, you know, part of the goal of these leagues, even though they don't want to be as straight up developmental league. So as far as the calendar goes, I think

they're going to debate it percentage wise, I don't know. You know, it's like I said, there's an argument for waiting until April. There really is, you know, here's the thing though, if they add more teams, they're also like you know, and I know we don't, well we watch it. Expansion is expansion has talked about too much, I know. But if they add more teams, that extends your season. So if you have let's just hypothetically, if they have ten teams next year or twelve or

whatever, that extends your season. You have more you have more games during the week on television too, you have five six teams a week on TV rather than the four that they have now. But that would theoretically extend your season as well. So maybe if you start earlier, you can you know, and made June or something like that. Yeah, because if you add teams and then yeah, then you're starting late and then you're going late.

After that, we does a follow up any time consideration from the leagues now reverting to the XNFL kickoff now that the NFL will use it. I know we talked about it a little bit on the pre show at the end of the stream, but I'm surprised they didn't about fair I mean, I know that we've been practicing in training camp for four weeks and I'm surprised almost that

they didn't do that. Having watched the USFL kickoff again now, I Greg parks in a complete breakdown about like all the gate you know, the given yards and all of that. Do you think they move back to that next year? The XFL style, that's fascinating. I've been watching the USFL for a while now, obviously, and their kickoff is just interesting to me. Like a returner will have fifteen yards with what you'll see a return and run

for ten fifteen yards when out a defender even getting in the picture. You can argue whether that's a good thing or not. It's fun to watch returns like that. You know all that you saw the opening kickoff of the season, or Arlington's already in enemy territory. I think, honestly, I think the UFL is going to play it out and watch how it works in the NFL first before they do an about face. Because here's the thing, right, I do think the NFL is going away from Unfortunately, they're going away

from the traditional kickoff. It's because of safety. We've seen what they've done. They newtered the kickoff to begin with, no wedges, none of this different alignments, et cetera. So it's not only twenty two percent of kickoffs are returned, right, and you've eliminated injuries, but you've eliminated the play. But I think the NFL is only signed up for one year with this kickoff. I'm so fascinated to see what happens, how NFL teams adapt to

it, how it comes off. There's gonna be people in the preseason Week one of the NFL season that are going to look at this radical looking kickoff and think this is ridiculous. Just go back to the old one. There will be people that go, hey, why don't you just use the UFO one? That was pretty cool. They moved the kicker back and they still get returns, right, So you get that argument too, right. So I think if it's not a disaster, you know, because the NFL has

some differences from the XFL kickoff. Obviously they're trying to paint it as their own, it's Sam Schwartztein's baby, but they do have some differences like that, how many people are up front? I think it's seven versus nine. Obviously two returners rather than one, so there are some Maybe those tweaks will make the kickoff a little more exciting. I don't know, I know Sam Schwartze and his team tried a bunch of those things already, so they try

by fire, I guess. But if let's just say it's it's crapped on by the critics. The NFL kickoff is just nobody's like this is ridiculous. Go back to the old kickoff. Then the UFL's be like, hey, we made the right decision by not going to that kickoff. But if it's a smashing success in the NFL and it's fun and there's a lot of returns and big plays and you know, not every place, just you know,

the kickoff in the NFL is like I'm watching to see how strong. It's like a like an exhibition watch, and see how strong the kicker's leg is. See if you can get it through the uprights. It's like, you know, it's like the guys the returner just walks away as the ball goes through the end zone. So it's like it's become a nothing play in the NFL. So there, I think they could go back to it, but I think they're going to react upon what happens in the NFL. If the

NFL loves the kickoff and they're like this is it. We're this as far as we go. This is our kickoff from here on in. Then I think other people, not only the UFL. I think college football will follow suit. I mean, you got the European League of Football is doing it. I think the CFL, who's looking at it. If it's a smashing success in the NFL, the CFL will have it. So you'll have all levels of football using it. But first things first, let's see how the

NFL implements it and how it works in their league. First. Yeah, if the CFL takes it over, that that would really be you know, there's a lestrious of that. Peter in Texas Peak wants to know what's the status on selling teams as franchises. Are there any conversations about what that would cost or look like? And I guess to add to that from mine, you talked about Disney and Fox kind of owning equity in this right now, So maybe there's not as like, okay, we got to sell it tomorrow.

So does that change any of that? And I guess how does any of that update now that we have all of this new kind of you know, mishmash of all this ownership. Yeah, you know, all the markets they chose, uh, they chose, they chose specific for this merger. They chose specifically because they have designs on specific potential investors. I think I've heard who for the longest time now that Memphis is a city that they feel is going to have maybe perhaps the league's first owner. So that's one of

the things I've heard at Birmingham, Michigan. There's also like hope there, like all these teams were chosen specifically, you know, the surviving USFL teams with the idea of them being sold off. And I think I've heard a lot of rumblings about Memphis, so I wouldn't be Here's the thing, it's very difficult to get eight good owners. You can get one or two of them, but you know, but it's like it's very difficult. So we saw what happened with the AAF, so like, you know, it's not

it's not an easy task. But I think there's a good chance that, you know, if this league has success in the next two years, I think there's a good chance we're going to see at least one or two of

the franchises sold off to local ownership. You would hope, like why wouldn't you want to own Saint Louis. We saw you tweeted it out the BattleHawks beating out the Cardinals and the ratings, how well they did locally up against Caitlyn Clark and all that, and then so why wouldn't you if you're in Saint Louis consider owning the BattleHawks. So you know it's and you figure the Stallions by now, that was the hope of Fox that somebody in Birmingham would

step up, right, you'd figure, well, see how their attendance is. It's a crucial week for some of these teams. The expectations are modest for attendance, but I think the threshold for a lot of these teams is ten k and above to try to shoot for that. The big thing with these games too is that you want and I think they all had good crowds. I think you want whoever shows up, no matter what the number is, ten, twelve, fourteen thousand, You want energized crowds that are into

it. That crowd sounded great in Michigan. You know, it wasn't the biggest crowd, and the crowd was decent. In Houston is considered right. Their team didn't look very good. But they I thought the energy level was good there. San Antonio was pretty you know, pretty good too. So I thought, I think that's these markets how they do if they start to take off, if they have good seasons at the gate Birmingham, Memphis, Michigan improved from last year. I think there's a chance maybe they can.

I mean, that's the ultimate goal, outside of the NFL stepping in and funding this league somehow. That's the ultimate goal is because they centralized it. They're all going for the MLS model, and so what they would like to do is have it centralized, control costs, and then owners come in and that takes care of itself. It was funny. I actually want to pull that up because one of our listeners they tagged me in that Saint Louis thing, and I texted Max I said, like, has this been shared yet?

Like He's like, oh, yeah, that's been around. I'm like oh, And I'm like, well, I'll tweet it anyway, just because and then it ended up a lot of people haven't seen it yet. So just let me see if I can't on let me see if I can share this, just so we can talk about it super quick. This is kind of an an av lib here. So the TV numbers by the these are the local ratings right for each of the team, Saint Louis beating there,

you know the four point five on that. Are you surprised with the with the lower numbers here for Birmingham, which this is your three of them having the team with two point six, and then Detroit two point two, and then Dallas, you know, the central hub of the UFL with a point an I know Dallas is hugers a lot going on. Just any takeaways on that since that's kind of new infos since we posted anything. Yeah, I'm

not so obviously not surprised. It goes without saying Saint Louis's number, Birmingham's number is okay. I wish it would be better Detroit. I'm actually surprised. It's that, to be honest with you, that they're you know so, and you would think by now that Dallas would be a little bit stronger for four. You know, their attendants was decent. You were obviously at that game. I thought I was a little worried before the game, you know, seeing some of the photos that were out there and how the crowd

was potentially going to look and I think it filled out nicely. Yeah, those numbers could be a little bit better. The Dallas number could be better, the Detroit numbers. Fine, Birmingham should be a little bit higher. Saint Louis. It's awesome. I mean, that's so cool to see.

So I think these some of these, I think some lessons can be learned here in the future in terms of, like, you know, it's probably never gonna happen, but I keep looking at Oakland, which has like no pro sports teams basically now, especially with the A's moving today they're going to

be playing in Sacramento. I just keep thinking to myself, if this league ever decides to journey a little bit differently on the calendar and maybe head to the West a little bit rather than just be sectioned off there, maybe Oakland will be in consideration. Because could you imagine if you had an Oakland UFL

team that entire market there's no baseball to watch, none of that. And don't get me wrong, there'll be some loyalists that still follow the A's, you know, no doubt, but it's kind of hard when they abandon your city. So for Oakland to have their own football team they lost the Raiders.

I think that's something for the maybe cost efficient, it's not cost efficient, I don't know, but that's something to consider you because you're looking at the example of Saint Louis and what happens when you go to a market that's been shunned by pro football in general, and then you can see how they've embraced it. And those numbers are very impressive and they're going to hold up. Saint Louis is going to do well all season long. Robert has a

question. You're on Facebook speaking of attendance. White attendance numbers. Do the teams need to achieve to be viable? We talked a little bit about that, but for example, Michigan averages nine thousand per game. Will they fold for next season? I don't. You're running for its field. I mean, that's the problem you're running. I mean, you cost a lot and that's a tough one. That's a tough one. So I mean, like I said, for people I've spoken with, I think their expectations are modest

in terms of attendance. I don't think they're expecting twenty thousand in every venue. I don't think that's the expectation there. They'd like to do better than nine thousand, for sure, But you got to remember last year, like I got the figures, but I was an ab to release it for two reasons. I could have been a jerk and released it, but I didn't

want to make the USFL look bad. That's the god honest truth. People told me not to do that, but that's I didn't want, you know, I understand the non Panthers games, there was like a couple of nine hundred and eighty nine paid fans kind of thing, So that's you know. So I don't think that they're expecting twenty thousand at for Afield. I would love if they get to that point. That would be one of success.

Maybe the Panthers beat the Stallions this week and they start proving that they're one of the best teams in the league, and they start to take off. They have one of the coolest helmets in the history of pro football. They have great history dating back to the old USFL. I'd love nothing more than to see that that team takeoff. So you never know, maybe maybe that market takes that team over time. I don't think there's like a set marker like last year. If I'm not mistaken. This is off the top of

my head, but I think the XFL sold six hundred thousand tickets. I have to double check that, but I'm pretty sure that was check but I'm pretty sure it was in that neighborhood in terms of how many tickets they sold for the season. So this league could do better than that, I have

no doubt about that. And if you look at if you look at the because last year you had Orlando, they had the Vegas situation, Vegas average like six thousand per game, which is a miracle that David got that, all things considered, and then Orlando was whatever it was, I think nine thousand or ten thousand thereabouts. The key is paid attendance, right, so they give away a lot of tickets and all that stuff. The key is

like how many paid, So that's important. I do think these numbers have to improve in some of these markets, but I think the threshold right now is like ten thousand and above. You'd like to do more, you'd like to build upon that. You like to do more, obviously, but to expect all these markets outside of Saint Louis to all of a sudden be hitting twenty k by now, Birmingham should Birmingham is such an awesome team. By now they should be. They're gonna They're trying to attempt to win the third

straight championship. That's something that hasn't happened in pro football since the Packers in the sixties or the Edmonton Elks in the late seventies and early eighties. I know people look at these leagues differently, but it's professional football, so I mean, so by now Birmingham should be embracing the team, so you would hope that they they I have. My expectation for them is higher than it is for Saint Michigan or what have you. I think they should do fourteen

fifteen, sixteen thousand and above. They shouldn't be in that eight nine, ten thousand range. In my opinion. These other teams have to build up a winning tradition and build up their fan base. I think by now, Stallions in year three should be doing better. It's funny because we talk at tendants and you get there. There was a CFL guy over the weekend, you know, posting the average attendants for all the CFL franchises last year.

It's like it's one hundred and ten years versus one week here they just just to be whatever. But because you're to piggyback off that, and then I have another question about from Darren hereby the attendants. You know, you talk about ownership, We talk about franchise and ownership, and like, you know, I have not looked at the scene charts for this week, and I've

heard Memphis is pretty low. I know they're running ten dollars ticket sales, and you want like, but yeah, if I'm buying the Memphis franchise with you know, forty five hundred paid attendants six days, like what am I buying at that point? I know we talk about TV ratings and all that.

I think it was Ben Fisher that was on last year with the Sports Student Business Show was talking about, you know, you can't evaluate an MLS franchise that's you know, getting a million viewers each week the same as you can you know, USFL franchise because you have season tickets and you have you know, hundreds of years you know, the people and then buying the merchandise and the families and they're passing this on and kind of the even just like

you're the mental kind of like hold you have in the communities, and there's all these other intangibles that go into it. So I guess, you know, like if Memphis looks really weak this weekend in terms of attendance, like

I don't know what you're buying there in terms of like a franchise. It's tough too with like football seasons, because it has to go beyond the ticket sales in terms of of your revenue because it's not like, you know, we've seen baseball games with three, four, five, six thousand fans, but they got an eighty one home games, right, so they can make up some money along the way there, you know, So they can by

doing that. These teams have five games, that's it, and then you know, if they if they get to the playoffs, maybe they host the game and maybe get to six or whatever. But yeah, you have to be somebody in Memphis that figures, with my money, with my promotional ability, I can market this team. Because the league is not willing for better for worse. They're not because they know they can go into the red rather quickly. They're not willing to go all out on spending money on promotion and

marketing. So for better for worse, and a lot of leagues in the past tried this and they ended up, you know, going in the red immediately. So you're gonna need an owner that sees the that is bullish on it, that sees the potential and goes you know what if I take control of the show boats will boost attendance. I know exactly what to do in

this market. So you're gonna need those type of like forward thinking, maybe egotistical, brave guys that come into the market because you're not gonna buy already made smashing success product. You're gonna need people who are like innovative and can they feel like they have a handle in the marketplace and they can benefit from owning one of these teams, you know, because yeah, and then like am I getting a percentage of the shop sales for that? You know?

Like how does that go in? I mean there's so many like how does that go all? When you have central ownership? I mean, I know MLS hows all that stuff. Dre wants to know what do you think is more important TV numbers or live attendance numbers? I think TV numbers are more important because I think the more of an audience you can build, the more sponsors you get and the more popular your product is on television, but your

attendance will improve. So I think I think that's a very important aspect, is building up your popularity on television because you become more visible and then you sell more tickets so by default, so I think they go hand in hand. I think the big thing with these football leagues is they have to figure out and you know, Jerry Carnell, I've seen him, you know,

listen to him speak on many different forums. He's talked about, you know, monetizing, how do you monetize the fan base when they're not at the

games? And that's a big That's the thing that these leagues haven't quite figured out yet, whether it be through fantasy, gambling, merchandising, So they haven't quite figured out like how do we because you have to be able and for a football league to be successful make a lot of money, you have to be able to profit off of beyond just a three hour window that your game is on. That's where they need to figure out. They need to

build up their revenue streams. So they're all important. Each one of these things is important. Sponsorships, but I would say if I had to lean one way, or the other. I think the ratings are a little more important than the attendance. I think your ratings. It's funny how it works.

So I think your ratings improve too if people turn on the TV and they see people in the tendance, right, because then they see it's a hot product, and this is interesting and let me watch it, and this crowd is awesome, and look how amped up they are, and it enhances the game. That's what the USFL, unfortunately they have so many great elements of the league lacked. Is their games had artificial energy with the piped in, crowd noise and all that. And you know, if you flipped it

on, you go, oh my god, nobody's had these games. It's like so and then you would just change, you know, so anyhow, so they kind of all work hand in hand, but I would lean towards the TV ratings. Something just got it in my mind. Did you watch I was traveling. Did you watch the UFL today? I'm looking here on the ESPN. I got about twelve thousand viewers on the ESPN YouTube channel talking about you know, destroyingsbu and kind of all that stuff. Did you watch

that? I did watch it. You know, there are aspects of that show that you know. It's very sleek looking. I like Scooby. I'm a fan of Daniel Dop. I've listened to him with the field Yates do fantasy football. They try to do an interactive thing with the fans. I think there's a great gem of an idea there. It looks sleek, very

professional. I don't think they're quite hitting on it. It's trying to be hip and you know, the guys are walking around with the pads and all that, and they're doing and I think this show, if it finds its groove, it can be very formidable. It's very up to date, leaning into technology, interactivity with fans. I love the concept of it. Like I said, I like the people that are working on the show. I did see it. I thought it was good. I just my expectation level.

I think it could be so much better than what it is. I mean, it has potential. I think it could be a very entertaining show. They'll have guests and stuff and that'll help. I think they need a little bit more of exclusive access with like players and coaches and all that, which we get a lot of. We take it for granted. Now I've been watching the XFL and the USFL. We take for granted all this access. It's ridiculous. We never see this during NFL games. Like I was

watching. I just wrote an article, Defender's article, and I watched Reggie Barlow was ripping on Brandon Smith because Brandon Smith was on the sideline saying, you're not throwing me the ball. You're not throwing me the ball. They draw up a play on third down for me. He drops it and the DC has to punt the football. And then Reggie Barlow's on screen saying, you beg for the ball, We throw it to you and you drop it. Good going, you know that kind of deal. I'm like, wow,

that stuff you just don't. I know, the NFL films does some great work and then after the fact you see some stuff, but some of it you have to question how much of it is cleaned up for television and how much is you know, like they make sure we don't hear any read

call somebody jerker an asshole, so that kind of thing. So but but I think there's some of that element that I think the UFL Today Show can benefit from, you know, the extra added access, and I think it's a working like the league sometimes in some respects, it's a work in progress. I think it can be better. I like what they do. I did watch it. It's available out there. They need to do a better

job of promoting that it's coming up. I like the whole idea, like, uh, you know, they're like like a high I like the idea of a highlight show after the fact, you know, and and like bringing some personality and some flair to it, with some cool post game reactions, some news, you know, and would I think there's potential there for it to be better than it is right now. As is, It's okay. I enjoyed it last year. There's nothing wrong with it. But I just

think it can be so much better than it is. Yeah, it's just like you were talking, just ways to exist outside of just a Saturday Sunday.

I mean, I know they do it on Sunday and that makes it, you know, do the kind of post game, but you know, except for like these coaches media calls and I know, like Tayomu had the thing they send out today that you could download, like you know, trying to keep this league in the zeitgeys during the week right now, is you know, it's always kind of the problem, and I think the CFL has an issue with that. Sometimes I will say, like, really a job

with the YouTube channel. I mean, the XFL went as well, posting clips and everything. I thought they've done a good job in terms of, like, you know, being able to catch up and do all that, even if the one of them is like the super kind of destroyings kicks or whatever. I thought that that was kind of funny. Yeah, that's another thing. There's so many hard working people in the league. I thought it was an impressive week on social media for the weekend, especially in comparison to

last year. I thought they did a very good job because last year you'd go an hour an hour and a half, Like, come on, man, you've had all these cool plays. You're just like, I know, I'm seeing it. But the point is you have to put it out there, and then you know, you have to show those highlights. So it's a part of the viewing experience. Now you get the phone in your hand. You're doing it for people who don't have access to TVV anyway. But

I thought they did a very good job with social media. They're doing a good job on their YouTube channel. A much better job than they did last year. There's areas for improvement. What you have to do is you have to put yourself in the shoes of a fan whenever you're doing any of these things, and you have to say, Okay, as a fan, when I watch the NFL, what do I want from a postgame show? And write that down? What do I like from their post game show? Write

that down? What are they missing? So? And then I think you needed that. You need to do that. What do I do? Like the XFL social media teams, these special teams, they have to if they're NFL fans, they have to sit there and go what do I do On Sunday mornings when NFL games are about ready to go about an hour and a half, they have a routine of going to see the inactives. Every team post them. Why can't we do that? So? I mean, every

team posts their injury report every day. So it's not a bad thing to copy. Uh, I had the NFL. There's some things right, because there's stuff they don't do right the NFL, and you could see it in the UFL. Because the UFL, with the transparency, with the review all that stuff, it's ahead of the game, with the technology they use,

with the first down marker, that's way ahead of the game. The access they give the UFL XFL USFL have given you on the sidelines with players, that's I don't know if we'll ever see that in the NFL, like players be an interview during the game. It's so cool. I think it's cool. I know a lot of people, traditionals don't like it. I think you don't always get great moments, I know, but I think it's cool

that write after somebody makes a big player or you know. The crazy thing is they didn't really the old school XFL would have went to Genie Delance and would have went right in his face and said, why'd you spin on that player? And they would and that would have made for the heck of television. But I guess they avoided that. They kind of interviewed destroying. But I mean, hey, it's part of the game. So anyway, He's

right, I got a lot of it, like heat on that. I'm like you, if you like, what's his name, dal Hey de la Hey Donald Donald, I'm like, if you, it's fine. I just I don't Well, here's the thing with here's the thing with him, and I get it. I give him total credit for building up the social media deal that he's built up. That's awesome. I would never be able to do that. I don't know how he did it. Good for him.

I know he got in trouble for it in college football, so that's kind of the world has changed a lot now with the NIL, so I think it's cool that he came out the other side. I think it's also kind of cool. I know he's with the Toronto Argonauts on their practice roster a few years back. I think it's cool that he's getting in an opportunity. He's got to deliver when he's given the opportunity. He didn't do very much, and I know they they're building him up because he has a following.

I get it. But when he gets the chance, he's got to deliver. Now, he didn't have to do anything in that game for the Brahmas, who had a great debut. But under that new regime. But but we'll see, he's got to come through. He's getting a golden opportunity. You got a golden ticket here, league's given him. It helps him that he's got that social deal, that he's got that popularity it's an interesting story.

But if he falters, you know, I mean, you know, then he's got to produce when he's given the chance to make field goals and to help his team win. He's got to come through otherwise. It's good. There are gonna be people who think of it as a publicity stunt until I'll prove it otherwise. So we've avoided asking this question. Here we go. Pip wants to know, Mike, what are your thoughts on adding teams

after year one? How many teams should they add? What are you gonna you gotta touch on it, Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, absolutely the expansion, they discussed having ten teams, and then I'm not surprised, I know that is a big controversy on this. I'm not going into this season, going into this season. I'm sorry. Yes, they discussed having ten teams. They came close a couple occasions. They decided upon eight for

this year, then revisited for next year. So I think there's a good chance, I would say better than fifty to fifty that we get two new teams in the league next season. It doesn't mean now there was some controversy attached to this because you know, the recent trademarks, the Ohio Bulldogs, the Nashville Tuners. I do know that if there wasn't a merger, that the Vegas Vipers were either either headed to Nashville or to Arizona. So make

of that what you will. Whether they would have been the Nashville Vipers or the Nashville Tuners, who knows. But but I don't know with that, is there history not that I can recall. I maybe like that is a terrible thing. The only way I'd sign off on that is if you tell me right now they have a Nashville owner that wants that crazy name. If you tell me right now they I'll say, Okay, yeah, his money's good, right, Okay, sure, Tuners it is. I don't know.

I mean the Jousers is the greatest spring football league of all time. I mean, maybe I could get I'm changing I'm changing the there you go. You never know. Maybe the logo you can do the like the tune thing somehow it looks kind of cool. I don't know. Fork. I imagine like a tuning fork, right, and we're to make it like right? It could work. It could grow on you. I mean, there's

a lot of the origin behind a lot of these pro football names. I mean, the Packers are meat packers, they would name they didn't have any money that franchise, so they named it after the meat packers right there locally, so they needed somebody to fund the team, So Packers it is so anyhow, but maybe you never know. But Nashville and Ohio. I do know that the idea was for Vipers need to go to Nashville Arizona, and I do know that, Uh, I can't just missed the cut, so

tuning for it. It looks pretty good. That might work. I don't know you can sell me on it because I'm like big on like it almost has like a trident look to it a little bit so anyhow, but but yeah, I do think this league is gonna go. I you know, barring them, there's like if they have a horrible year at the gate and their ratings are very bad and things collapse, I could totally And they don't have a good championship rating and they don't do very well as far as sponsorships

and all that. Let's say the year is a disaster, which I don't think it'll be, but let's just say it's just completely craters it doesn't they don't do very well, then it's possible that they decided let's just stay with eight teams again. But I really think that they came so close, and you know, people were telling me, hey, they can't and would be a part of this right that, and that they would have ten teams.

When they decided on eight, Ohio was on the chopping block. So I do, and I'm a huge supporter of you know, i'd like to see him in Columbus, but anywhere in Ohio. I think it's an awesome football play, So I think that would be very cool. So I think we're gonna get I think we're gonna get two new teams. That's a hook too. By the way, I think they almost kind of have to do that. They need a new hook for twenty twenty five. Not just hey,

we're coming back for season two of the UFL. I mean that's cool, right, But I think the hook is we're gonna have to We're gonna add on two teams. We'll have five weekly games. Well, I think that would be pretty cool. I think the fans wanted. Fans always want expansion. It just has to be done the right way. The right choices have to be made. So, but I honestly think I honestly think we're gonna

add at least two teams next year. I thought that hurt the USFL going into season too, that the biggest stories were, Okay, Memphis is playing in Memphis and Michigan's playing in Michigan. But I think that wasn't enough, like you said, to get like casual fans like, oh man, they're adding two new teams, and like, I mean, you know, I don't know what. There's a non zero number of people that you know,

supported the Michigan Panthers more when they were in Michigan. It was not right now that they're here, like now I'm allway, And there's always gonna be people unhappy, right because, like let's say they choose this hypothetically, they choose Ohio and Nashville, there's gonna be a bunch of people that go, why didn't you go to San Diego, Why didn't you go to Oakland?

How come you don't have any in New York Northeast teams? Why don't you bring back the mall Ers or the Stars or the generals or the dragons or whatever. So there'll never be people that are fully happy, but I would be happy if you added two more teams. That means more players, more

jobs, more games. So I'm all for it if they can. I think they need to have a good season this year, and like I said, not not have an awful year at the gate awful year in the ratings, because if they do that, they'll come back for next year, but they'll be limping into it. Eugene had this might be a quick one because we I thought we had. He wants to know any plans on flex scheduling now that we had a little bit. Didn't we have flex last year where

we shifted time slots a little bit? Yeah, yeah, I and they do that during the season. I think that's a very good idea, especially as you get you know you have I'd have to look at the schedule, but it's a very good question. I think as you get towards the end of the year, I don't know what the playoff picture looks like. I think you need to flex your best games into primetime or into the windows,

the ABC Fox windows. Fortunately the league has whatever it is, thirty one games on both those, But you know, you might have two teams that are out of it and they might have like the primetime game on Fox, and you know, I would like to if possible, I would like to do that. So I think they did do that. They announced ahead of time during the XFL season. Oh, by the way, we're moving this game to this time and this game to that time. So I think that's

possible for this season. I think you want to Ideally, you want to wait towards, like towards the end of the year, when you get into those final few weeks of the season before you start, because I think everybody's still alive until you get to like week eight, Week nine, week ten. And last year was crazy. We had three four and six teams make

the playoffs in these two leagues. You know, yeah, because I it was like one of them was a c dragging game because I remember, like we got the email and I was like, you know, because we had tickets, So I, oh, this game is going to be you know whatever time. Now, Mirror Twin wants to know. I know all Fantasy is doing their thing. I'm in the league and it's begins. So far. Plans have a UFL ESPN partnership for Fantasy to get some more fans involved.

I mean, I know, we had Daryl Johnson on, We've been talking injury report to kind of all that stud but just trying to like it just feels to me like they never really grasped this. And I we had Airic eger On and Javon On and the pre show, like I would literally hire if Fox doesn't have this, like hire someone to do like fantasy dfs like brain trust for one of these leagues. But what do you make of this? And I'm trying to get these fans in. Yeah, it's very

old world thinking that they're not up on top of this. You know, as far as fantasy football goes, I haven't heard a thing. I've reached I've actually reached out, I've asked, I haven't heard. Hey, we plan on doing this this next year. We plan on doing this. I think they just want to maybe develop partnerships with the popular DFS sites or what

have you. I could only imagine how successful their app would be if they had how much traffic they would get if they actually had fantasy football on their own app. Everybody would sign up. So it's and if they had injury reports on there, if they had all that, you can get the transactions on there. If they had all that on there, you would get people every day checking that multiple time today, multiple time. Yeah, you have to. You have to think about it, like again, put your shoes

and put yourself in the shoes of an NFL fan. What do NFL fans do? And that's what I do during the week. I play fantasy football and I pay attention to every team's injury reports, and I do all that stuff and it's immersive. It's part of the process of being You can't wait for that first practice report, you can't wait for that first injury report. I'm not even a gambler. I pay attention to the lines too, the

over, the under. It's kind of like so that's all part of it, and I have Unfortunately, these leagues have yet to get it right. You know, from the AF on down. They haven't delved into it or figured this aspect out. If they they need to get some hire someone to do it for them, because it just seems like an old world thinking kind of deal where they don't understand that Jerry Cardinals not picking up running backs from

the Cardinals. I'm very unlikely that Danny Garcia is making trades in her fantasy league. So they have no knowledge of it. They don't understand the worth, and they just do not get it. They don't understand how fantasy There was a time, you know, Peter King was just retired. He wrote an article for Sports Illustrated where you know, ten ways to save a boring NFL. And so there was a time, and I remember in the early

nineties, there was a time when the NFL was considered boring. And I really think that fantasy football was a big reason why the NFL started to become the monster that it is, because it just made people in their markets fans of every team and show interest in every game and so and then that's like where we're at. It's a red zone and all these channels. All that stuff is fun when you're playing fantasy football. Good lord, stressful, but

fun well. And also, you know, even if the game is lost or you know, it's not a competitive game anymore, it gives you a reason to kind of watch all that stuff, you know, because I I remember, like the you know, they even try to talk about it. This weekend wasn't a great weekend for me to do like commentator analysis because the one game we were in the press box. Two of the games I was at bars and I was watching on the airplane the other one. But you

know, they're like, oh, they kicked the field goal. Well, if you're betting the over on this game, like you're a happy camper, I'm like, yeah, like I don't know sports betting at all. I was just on the podcast and they're like, hey, like, what are your prop bets for the weekend. I'm like, I, you were asking the wrong homie for that one. But like, even I understand that there is such a large portion of that they would they would just watch the games

just to bet and play on them. They even if they don't even care about the league at all. You know what's funny. I had a tweet last week. I bring up his name, Matty Fresh put out like the lines, So I went ahead and I replied to it and I gave whatever, like who I thought my the favorites were, And it only had like four likes to tweet. I was thinking on nobody even noticed. I said, I like Michigan and San Antonio's home underdogs, and I take Memphis out

right obviously taking Birmingham. I didn't think anybody saw out or cared about it. You know how mean people reached out to me and said, wow, Mike, you know so much. How did you know this was gonna happen? I'm like what. And people who are into this are asking me my opinions on dfs, They're asking my opinions on prop bets, on spreads all that, and so I got lucky because sometimes you're completely off. But I had a feeling about those teams covering. I had no idea Jake Bates was

going to kick a sixty four year field goal. I knew San Antonio was going to be better than people were making them out to be. And I knew DC, especially early in the season is when I have struggles. They lost too many big time players, so it to not affect them so anyhow, But there are people. My point is to say, there are people out there that are so into this stuff and that they're waiting for you to provide this, and when they don't, they turn away from your league.

So it's unfortunate. They just haven't quite None of these leagues can figure it out. I don't know if it's just older people that are just older generation that don't understand it. They don't they don't get it, but they don't understand, Like you just have to pay attention, Like you have to pay attention to what the what happens during an NFL season, Like how immersed fans are. That's how you monetize your fan base when they're not at the games.

You have entire TV shows on you know, NFL network now, Like I watched f I Network a lot RP Good Morning Football right now while they haven't figure out what the heck's going on with that, but like they have entire programs, hour long program like getting your fancies out of the lineup, Like you know, it's it's such a stupid thing, but it is. It is. It's the world is invested in this now. I mean,

I don't get it. I just don't. I can't justify playing. You know, Dorothy would divorce me. But like it's such a thing that, like you said, for them not to understand, and my last point, and then when you don't provide the stuff, then these markets dry up, right Because I remember USFL Season one. I'd have people on every week because I'm like, oh, shoot, these are guys that actually know all the

football on their top because they got to know all this. And you get to week eight nine, and they're like, yeah, we went from having a one hundred thousand dollars pot to ten thousand dollars pot. However it works because they're like, there's not enough interest to justify doing that. It's unfortunate.

And that's the thing. That's the thing with the NFL. Has fantasy football and gambling have turned casual fans that hey, I'll check out the NFL game when it's on Sunday to every day fans twenty four hours of day fans like they're completely bought in, and so it's a big part of it.

It's huge, and that information is free to give out. They just I'm hoping that one day that they'll actually they'll have someone who comes to them and pitches them on it that has experienced in the field and that can help them, you know, join the year twenty twenty four, because they're really way behind on that, so they haven't they don't understand how much interest and traffic

that will drive if they do it. Yeah, I have eight guys that have been on my podcast in the last six months with you know and and a harpyt and be able to revolutionize that. It's just it's crazy. Sorry, it's all good, but it's the truth. It's just like and then the people who are like the Matthew Berryes of the world, who I respect the field Yates, all these people that Daniel Dopp was doing. He knows

all about fantasy football. You you would he has good opinions too in that area in the NFL, Stefania Bells, these people would have more interest in the UFL if you actually had straight up fantasy football. And so you know, one day, I don't know, uh, we got this will be rapid for this is actual football that we'll talk here, rapid fire here. There's multiple ones in years, so we'll kind of rapid fire this. And

then I have a final round out question here. We'll do Federal here, Federal here, Hill I can't even speak, No Friar wants to know. First question, Houston really that bad? Yes, here's the thing. Here's the thing though, that what what will keep them in games this year? If Mark Thompson's head's on correctly and he's healthy and that defense we saw ye if I'll tell you that because they have a chance. Mark Thompson's the best running back in the league, and they have defense is really good. Their

offense put him in bad spots in Week one. Memphis is so much more talented overall than they are, they still had a chance in that game. So Houston is bad. But if this makes any sense, they can be a competitive bad until they get the quarterback position correctly and figure that out. They're gonna have a hard time stacking up against case cookus in Memphis. Obviously, Birmingham with you know, Matt corral and so, and Michigan now with

their defense. So we'll see what happens with d J. Priory. But Houston is that bad because they can't right now stack up at quarterback until they figure that out. But I do think they can be competitive every week because they do have the makings of a like the top notch run game and a really good defense. And how did the Rothers get so good? Who? They got forty one new players? They got a fifty player roster. They got forty one new players. And it's not just roughnecks from last year.

Yeah, they got a healthy John Trey Kirklan. That kind of helps. But if you notice some of their new imports, like Anthony McFarland right this this these guys, you know you got to give Mark lily Bridge credit. You could see a lot of like recent Marquis Stevenson wide receiver, slot receiver, six round pick of the Buffalo Bills. Mark lily Bridge Bridge did a very good job putting that roster together, and I think a lot of people

were overlooking what he did and they kept thinking about last year's promise. They only have nine players and the ones they brought back from last year, Delante Scott, Alise Mac those guys are really freaking good, so you want to bring those guys back. So I think, how San Antonio, you don't see that very often in a football team. I know there's a lot of turnover in the NFL, but like forty one out of fifty new players,

that's that's quite the makeover. Will cook as thrive with the show Boats if he could stay alive, you know, Like I I admire his toughness. You know, he stays in the pocket up until the last second, and it makes me worry about him staying healthy because he waits. I love the fact that. And you know you heard the announcers there like a logan Bill was so impressed with Cookis. I think this is their first time like calling

the game with him. I know they've heard of him, knew about him, but you know, I was like, yeah, you guys are learning for the first time. How tough this kid is. I think Cookis is like the one team one quarterback that I trust overtaking Birmingham in the USFL Conference. If he can stay healthy, Memphis has a very talented roster. Got to remember case Cookis was and that first Stallions championship when he left the game

unfortunately right before his wedding, would have broke his leg or whatever. They the Stars are winning that game when he left, and then it kind of craziness whatever was kJ Costello and Alex McGoo battling it out. Both starting quarterbacks got hurt. Stallions came out on top. But Cookis is good a good quarterback if they you know, they kind of slept walk through that game last week. But I think Memphis is a chance to be better. I remember

getting yelled at because I wasn't at the USFL Championship game that season. That's where I was working. I think four weddings in five days or whatever it was. That was always fun. What is the issue with DC? They lost their three biggest stars, so think about it. In any sport, doesn't matter if it's football or any sport. If you lose your three best players. If you take any team in sports and just take your three best

players off of it, you're gonna have an issue. So I mean, there's no disrespect to Jordan Tamu, who I had a decent Week one. He was actually victimized. I think that five drops DC. He threw two touchdown passes that were negated because the penalties. Mister Delance, see you later, sir, so I think they had the lost two of the wide receivers in the NFL, and Chris Blair Lucky Accent were fourth and fifth in the in the XFL in receiving. Their yards per catch were ridiculous. They produced

so many big plays. Teams tried to put eight men in the box to stop Abram Smith and they paid for it dearly. When they did that, it was difficult to defend against the defenders. So Abram Smith is a huge loss and until somebody steps up. I think the Kiki qt pickup was a good one. Yet he should have two touchdowns last week. I think Brandon Smith has to play better this week. Ty Scott had a nice debut.

His first game with the Defenders. I think that this team, you know, they got a wake up call and they got a huge game coming up on Sunday against Houston. You know that might be ugly. Both those teams only scored twelve points a piece last week. So DC's got a lot of pressure to keep their undefeated streak intact in DC and to get their mojo back because they kind of lost it in that championship game to Arlington. That was a game they shouldn't have lost, and then they you know, San Antonio

was two steps ahead of them physically and mentally. Last week. Does the league go through Birmingham. I predicted the Stillings and win the whole thing, So I'm obviously bullish on them. I have a lot of respect for Skip Holtz. It's kind of interesting. They have thirteen players from that twenty twenty two championship team, so they got a lot of big leaders from that. They're trying to win their third straight championship. That staff is very good.

Continuity helps. They're the team to beat until proven otherwise, until proven, they're the Kings of the Spring. So until proven otherwise, until they're knocked off the throne, you got to respect the ring. Was Saint Louis lost just bad luck or was there something else they could have done to win. I don't know. Saint Louis kind of deserved to lose that game. It's kind of crazy. They lost on a sixty four yard field goal. They

were thoroughly outplayed at the line of scrimmage. They did not play well. Anthony Beck was ticked off after that game because they just did not they just stay. They did their performance. They're better overall than Michigan on paper, clearly have a better offense. They missed opportunities. A g mcchaernon missed a wide open touchdown down the field. They just were sloppy in that game. And I think, you know, last year they got away with that.

They played some games like against San Antonio where they were you know, outplayed for three quarters and a half and then finally way to pull that off in the end. And they almost did the same thing in Week one. A lot of pressure on Saint Louis too. They got a huge game coming up with Arlington. One of those two teams is going to be zero to two when the smoke settles on Week two. I don't think it was bad luck.

I think, I know that's hard to say what a team of opposing team kicks a kick sixty four yards twice, but they kind of the football gods were like, well, you guys don't deserve this one. So so I think they kind of Saint Louis and Saint Louis had won last week, they would have stole that one because they really didn't play very well, and Michigan kept you know, EG Perry turning the ball over in the red zone kind of kept Saint Louis alive to make that little Marcel eate Men come back

end. And then the final one to bounce off or bounce off of that Panthers contender is question mark who. That defense is really good. They're running back. They're like Houston in a way because they have a big time running back in West Hills and they have a big time defense. The question is the quarterback is kind of spunky, like he's a good runner and he's tough EJ. Perry, but he can't play like he did last week. I Michigan has the moxie to him if that quarterback can straighten out, and you

know, and their offensive line played okay. Although Saint Louis. I think kind of won that battle the line of scrimmage. Michigan has a chance. They'll They'll be in every game. They'll be in every game they have. E J. Perry's got to play better though, otherwise. You know, if they stun Birmingham this week, I think you got no choice but to

respect them. You know, if they go to two and oho and they beat Saint Louis and Birmingham and back to back weeks and stop those offenses, then you have to like tip your cap and say that, you know, the Michigan's for real, especially on defense. And then bobus went here before the last do you like the UFL USFL you XFL the whole conference, keeping track of all the wins and all that. I'm not surprised by it. You knew this would be a part of this whole thing. I get it.

Part of me, like I try to look at things from every different angle. You know, these I get the argument that these two leagues, they should be united. We got to stop this crazy pickering we've been doing the last few years. I think there's a bit of a complex on the USFL fans side. I kind of understand it. A little bit because their games had no fans in attendance, they had the fake piped in crowd noise.

People. A lot of people were loyalists to the XFL league in twenty twenty and they were like, you know, just waiting for the XFL to come back. So the USFL fan has felt like disrespected. So of course they're going to hang their hat on. You know, hey, we're just as good as that league because people are telling them, like, you know, the XFL has more fans, they have fans, organic fans, and attendance. The XFL had more players in the NFL. So they hear all

this talk. It's just one mind you Now, it's just one week, right, So I know, Birmingham beat who I think is the fifth best team in the XFL last year because Seattle was better than Arlington last year. DC was obviously better than Arlington last year. Saint Louis they didn't make the playoffs with their seven and three, they were better. And even the Houston Roughnecks, who falter at the end of the season, they were better overall

than Arlington. They just onto won two games at the end. So it got a sixty four yardfield goal from Bates and you got Birmingham beating the fifth best team from the XFL last year. I know they were the champs, but they weren't the best team in the XFL. So it's just two games. You know, it doesn't end after this, But I think there's a chip on the USFL loyalist side because they felt like they were being belittled or

treated as if they didn't count or if their league was inferior. That maybe people won't like it, but that tribalism is going to be a part of this. If there was social media back in the sixties, NFL fans back then, we're crapping all over. AFL fans took call in that league a gimmicky league. And then so when the AFL came up with Joe Namath and beat them finally that it was like a badge of honor. In the nineties, I remember the NFC used to win it. It felt like every single

Super Bowl. So I used to remember the discourse back then where NFC fans were just saying the AFC shouldn't even be a part of our league because the Bills get to the Super Bowl, Broncos get to Super Bowl. They're not going to win it anyway. It's all about the Niners, the Cowboys, Washington, the Giants who won multiple Super Bowls. So world changed a lot in the next decade or so. But so this tribalism that I get the people on one side that are enjoying it. I get the people that don't

like it and don't think it's necessary. I hear the arguments. I'm not surprised by it, though, if you didn't see this coming. The league's playing into it too. They could have easily not named the conferences, but they're playing into it as well. It's a storyline for twenty twenty four moving forward, we'll see. I just I'll say this a little, just my

little thoughts here, this deep into the podcast. I don't know if I've ever really talked about how it's so interesting to me, Like you're talking about the USFL fans and all that. I to me, it's like the XFL was around and I was a fan, right, we weren't doing any of this stuff. You know, Paul and I went just to DC. It just has fun, I mean, just to go drink and have fun and hang out, you know, you know, had a great time. And then when it went away and people were sad, and then it's like,

well, maybe it's going to come back. And I felt like even through you know, like the spring leagues of it all and the fan coatil football and even the flirtation with the CFL, you know, I think a lot of us like, we're kind of waiting for the XFL to come back, waiting for the XFL, and then yeah, when the USFL came, you got a lot of people that went all in on that league that they to me, it felt like you're not patient, or you're trying to take this

hot shot. That's kind of we're upstarting in this kind of gap in the marketplace right now. And you know, you have the USFL podcast, you know, all the the USFL, the media group, whatever, the those guys called, you know, all the avatars and I kind of all that stuff. Like then the XFL came back and kind of showed maybe how it's really done, and yeah, I get that inferiority a little bit of that.

I mean, at least that's my take is like you you kind of jumped off the wagon here at the one stop when we with the rest of us got to all the way to Oregon, on the Oregon Trail or whatever. If that makes sense. Now you're trying to I always care. I get it. Yeah, I get it. Read you know. Here's the thing, Like, I remember when the AAF came out in twenty nineteen and the XFL had announced that they were coming out in the AF beat them to

the marketplace. This is back when I used to actually frequent message boards. I remember AF fans talking crap about the XFL. I remember them saying, I remember them saying, the XFL visick Man again, it's going to be a gimmicky lead. We already beat you to marketplace. They foolishly thought they had a relationship with the NFL because they were in an NFL network and they

were you know, Eversol was selling that Charlie eversoll. So there were a lot of AF fans trash talking XFL fans saying, your league is not better than ours were with the NFL, et cetera. We're on CBS, what networks are you gonna have? Fitzig Man's an idiot, There's gonna be a gimmicky league all that. Look how stupid the XFL was in two thousand and

one. So there was tribalism during that And then and then there were fans on the XFL side they're saying, the AF is not any good, no kickoff, you have no good rules, your league plays off full, et cetera, et cetera, And we're gonna actually have fans, We're gonna have energy all that. So I get it. What I find funny too, with like the USFL is that, like there are USFL loyalists that didn't even

watch the XFL twenty twenty. There are USFL fans that don't know that the overtime shootout XFL twenty twenty, the tiered extra points XFL twenty twenty, the clock rules XFL twenty twenty, like all this stuff, the existence of x it's funny how it work. But the existence of the XFL in twenty twenty is what led to the USFL, you know. So it's like so and then a lot of the rules that you see, So there's it's definitely that tribalism. Some people like it, some people don't. It's gonna be a

thing. I think in Week three there's uh, there's no outside of conference games. But this week we got two of them. We got the Memphis and San Antonio, right, and then they got technically another USFL versus XFL game with the Roughnecks, which is really the gamblers against the defenders. So hey, if it gives YUSEFL four and oh you'll definitely hear it. The birdies will chirp the ones that are on that side. That kind of like I want to say, I told you so. I told you either were

as good or better than you. We were always better than you. You can't really even if somehow the XFL conference teams win this weekend and it's too too, you can't really claim superiority. It's gonna be a thing until there's a champion crowned, so you can. You can because right now half the team's undefeated and half the team is winless. So you know, I mean, like so if one side feels like they'll never win a game, the other side feels like they're never going to lose. But that's you know,

after one week, you can't really declare anything. But if there's anybody who's questioning, who was questioning the quality USFL, they're mistaken to think that it was like a vastly inferior league because there are quality teams and quality players. We're getting these super charged up teams now too, with all these teams that unfortunately didn't survive. Last question, and this is the theme of the episode, we might as well actually ask this question on here. This is from

Reid and Seattle here. Uh will UFL's extreme makeover save string football? Hmmm? Yes, it's enough. Yes, I think so, you know, I I think this is our best chance. You know, the first article I wrote about in Sports Illustrated as far as the UFL goes is you know that. I feel that if this doesn't work unless the NFL does their own league, which I'm old enough to remember when they tried that and they had teams in Canada and all over the world and in the United States, San

Antonio, et cetera, and didn't work for them. Unless the NFL decides to do it, I think this is your last viable chance. Because the look at the networks that are involved, it's extremely expensive to run these leagues. I think this is I think what this is. This league is going to be around for a while, so I think this is it. Will there be somebody who tries to partner up with CBS or something like that and try to sneak into it or when not. But I think this is your

last viable shot to make spring pro football. And uh, I think I think I think they're gonna be all right. I actually think if as long as these owners are fine with like, here's the thing, like, uh, they want to make a lot of money. So if they got to have that mindset where they're gonna hit a if they're okay with getting on base, maybe hitting a double rather than hitting a home run or a grand Slam,

then this will be around. If they throw their arms in the air after two years and say, you know what, I don't think this concepts ever going to be the home run we thought it was then then So I think there's this story has a lot of chapters left to be told. I think I agree with you. I think that expectations have been tempered, right,

I think egos have been checked. I think there was a lot of you know, I think this you know though, it's like coming together as a merger or not as mergers like a marriage, or like you know, when you got to work with someone in class you don't really like and you got to like, hey, we got to settle our differences here and kind of make this work for the you know, for the common group or the

common you know, good of whatever. I bought what Darryl said Daryl Johnson when he said, we realized we need to like practice what we preach basically like this, we're if we're in it for the players, we need to set them up for the best success, right, and that's coming together and kind of you know, lowering, you know, not not fighting right, kind of coming together. I buy that. I take that that they really looked, took a hard look in the mirror and said, if we're trying

to do this for the player, we need to figure this out. And I like the united aspect of it. I like them coming together, joining forces. And look, the fan bases eventually are going to join forces too, because when we get into the UFL offseason, we're all going to be celebrating all the guys who sign NFL teams like it'd be something they had one

hundred and eleven players from the XFL USFL signed NFL contracts. We'll all be happy when we see John drey Kirkling back in the NFL, Matt carrall back in the NFL, all that kind of stuff, because it's a validation of the league itself. So they have one hundred and twenty players sign I can't. You know, it's not that you need to use the NFL name to show the value of this league, but it does help that you know the success rate of players. You hope that like this there are some superstars that

come out of this league. It helps show the value because right now we've seen people with their opinions out there. They don't think there's anything special about the UFL, like SIMS and all that for Pro football talk talking about like how this legues not special. They don't have special players, so they do need to deliver on special players. But I think there's a definitely need for this kind of league, and I like the fact that they've united and I

think they can make this work. They're fiscally responsible. The question is can they do enough things correctly to capitalize and to open up revenue streams. It's the same thing I ask about the CFL. So you know you I want I root for that. I root for these leagues. There's no doubt I have no I'm not a fan of any one of these teams. I don't care who wins and loses. The games. Uh, that's a good thing kind of for me as far as it being a media member, Uh,

because they don't have to be a fanboy. I'm I'm a fan though. However, for this league, nobody has to root for the NFL. They're

going to be around forever and ever and ever. I'm rooting for this league to make it to finally be the league that makes it and succeed, just the way I root for the CFL to stay afloat and and get through the hard times and adversity and to evolve because that's such a tremendous football league and so so anyway, that's just my thoughts on you know though, when we started getting players signed to these leagues, it's going to be the The USFL

conference had X number of players. So that's so funny. Yeah, but you know that's true. You got a point, You got a point. I mean, sure, the Stallions will lead the way. We saw that, like the Stallions and the and the the battle Hawks had a ton of

signings. I felt bad for all the other USFL teams. It's like the Stallions had a bunch of signings and then all the other us so we got three, we got two I got four and then the stallions are like we got nineteen, you know, so it's like, you know, it's like, well anyway, but yes, Read, you're right, You're right. I totally forgot that angle. Yeah, with that, we'll put it pin in it. I appreciate it. Mike Our twenty minutes here. Check out

Mike's work on Sports Illustrated. We're getting all that website stuff figured out. But follow Mike on Twitter, post everything on there. Same with Anthony Miller, all the work that he does both you guys, writing, covering all that stuff. And again Anthony was with us for the pre show, for the kickoff and doing all that stuff. So I really appreciate that. Like

and subscribe, you know, gets the thirty five hundred subscribers. Eventually, eventually I'll be done talking about this, like anything else you want to say, Yeah, congratulations Read like, uh, you've left the mark of positive one on this space with your podcast and everything else. You have great guests on the show. You've done such a great job covering these leagues over the

years, all the great guests you have on. Appreciate you and what you do in this space and what you've done and hopefully you get to that mark you want to get to in terms of subscribers and everything else. But I appreciate what you've done. You know, and and you know, and like I think, like your name sometimes could be a detriment. Uh, Mark Cast. I've been when people call you Mark Cast. It's yeah, it's a terrible name because I don't think it does your show justice. You know,

it's stuck now, it's the brand. There's no turning back at this point. There's a I can't get into it. I was gonna into something else here, but I gotta let it go. Maybe yeah, you will talk out there, but I once again read thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Thanks to everybody out there who took the one hour and twenty plus minutes to listen to what I got to say, And thank

you for reading my work and checking me out of Sports Illustrated. Shout out to Casey Seger and Arc Garcia, who do tremendous work at Sports Illustrated. They're just great editors. So I just want to say that, Yeah, No, it meant a lot, thank you for all that. Yeah. When Evan and I were at Texas Live the Friday night of the kickoff, we were having dinner and you know, one of the league higher ups came up. I saw this person in the thing. I go, oh,

that's you know, they're here. Came over and said hi to us, and hi to Evan and I. So I appreciated that meant a lot, taking the time to come to me, you know, like, hey, read, it's good to see here. And then again at the at the kickoff, they said, you know, Hope, are you coming out of toe anymore events? Hope to see you out here. So you know, I mean, I think it's the beer, but at least they can make

them spot me from across the room. So I appreciate it, like and subscribe We'll see you next time, and thank you.