Well here we are back. Just a Mike Mitchell episode today. That's all we need for this one here coming in hot. Do a little intro here and then we'll get into Mike mid season here, UFL review kind of what do we think about all that stuff? A couple of news and notes like it. Subscribe if you appreciate all this stuff. We're giving away two free tickets to the Saint Louis Championship game in Saint Louis for the UFL. When
we hit that, I think we're like fifty subscribers with Mike. I think we can do that, but like and subscribe, give a thumbs up. CFL coverage will come next week. I know the draft happened in Vegas, working fifteen sixteen hour days here Sunday through last night, so we will get to that. But today is you know, Mike and the UFL and all that. But we will get to that. I promise, get some player interviews and all that. I think we might have a brock huwordciding next week
if everything works out, so like it. Subscribe If that entices you. Mike here we are UFL halfway through. I can't believe it at the theme this week at ufl alive or just breathing. What do you think, Oh,
that's a good one. Well, technically it is alive, right, I would say, like, you know, the thing of it all is, I think we're all, like a lot of people out there expect like expecting the worst, like doom and gloom, like thinking like maybe twenty twenty four, this doesn't work, and maybe these two sides break apart, or this is the death of spring pro football. But I think from the beginning, I've been saying to everybody you know that will listen or that pays attention,
that this brought them two years. So I think twenty twenty four is a bridge to twenty twenty five. We're definitely getting twenty twenty five. I know that this might not age well if all of a sudden we find out that there's like some kind of like well you never know, that's why we expect doom, right, But every indication is that you know, this is this is at least they're not going to say this publicly, but it's at
least a two year thing. Then we'll see from there. So the whole idea of them was, uh, these two sides coming together, and you know, trying to find some light at the end of the tunnel, you know, from survival mode to thrive mode. So that's kind of like the story there. But it's interesting. Quick side note, cool that a former USFL and XFL player was picked first in the CFL draft. I thought that
was kind of a unique thing that was washed over. They didn't really mention that that much, of course, but and it's cool to see like a lot of these UFL players that have found we'll see what happens training camp starting up to the CFL. UFL players that have found homes on CFL teams. There's some really good guys out there. Jeff Beidett with the argos et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So you know, there got a shot with the ratio. You never know. But there's a lot of UFL guys
that were just recently on teams that have headed up north. So CFL is an awesome league and we're coming towards that. So it's a busy period right now between the CFL draft, the NFL Draft, the UFL all that. Fun times, but busy times for sure. Yeah, And there's say,
if you're tracking any of the stuff Anthony Miller. I know the did a bunch of ride ups as well for Sports Illustrated as well as of your track, and I was trying to like keep track of all that stuff, and far Han was on and everything else with the CFL draft speaking of, and then I know the UFL sent out this week like the Nick Novak specialist, you know, happening in the off season for twenty twenty five. I said, there, there you go, confirmation twenty twenty five season. And they're
not quite but ratings this week a little down. If I feel like we've hit a watermark expectations for you in terms of like coming from the league, and then we'll talk at tendance as well. But TV, I feel like we found kind of our little water marker. It really doesn't seem like anything's falling out. And I thought early on they were kind of exceeding expectations considering the heavy competition they had. You know a lot of people are like,
oh my goodness, March madness, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, we hit a little bit of a mid season lull this past week. The numbers weren't that great. They weren't awful by any stretch of the imagination. I think the key is I think the big thing I've written about it like a million times at S is I think we know what the floor is with these leagues. They have, you know, a time it's contingent upon time slots, who they're going up against, whether they're in primetime or not,
whether or not they're on a big network over the year linear television. Those are kind of like, uh, and we kind of know what the floor is. You know, we're waiting to see if this league can hit a million viewers. We'll see this coming weekend. There's four games scheduled, all on big network television, three I believe on Fox. No more split games in prime time, so that which confuse the heck out of everybody. Understand that they always do those regional broadcast MLB, does it, NHL, et
cetera, et cetera. So anyhow, I think, will you know, be interesting to see if they can actually because we know what the floor is, if they can actually build upon this when they get towards the playoff push, when they get to the championship game. I think everybody it now expects like championship game rolls around the league's gonna do over a million viewers, maybe one five, one four, one six, maybe, who knows. It'd be not nice to see a higher ceiling development. You get what you put
in. So in terms of promotion, marketing, the attention that's on these leagues in our bubble, these leagues mean everything. But in the sports world, they're still in that same kind of ignore mode. So you know, you kind of notice it in the periphery, but it's not it's not something that's really on the sports a mainstream landscape. People like forget sometimes the UFL's on. We had Rick on last week, Rick Sarah Tella talking about you know, like, is it more USFL in charge? Is it more redburd
in charge? Marketing? To me feels more USFL. We're kind of bare minimum. I think social media has been really good this year, and I know we talked about that last year with the XFL and like, you know, it'd be halfway through a game and you wouldn't even have any plays, you know, upload a lot. Like that's all good, But what is your read on the situation and just your thoughts on that, because I don't yeah, I don't see this perferating out into the atmosphere unless you're like watching
NASCAR whatever on Fox, like seeing any of this stuff. Yeah, you know, Fox and Redbird had like shared interest and almost like shared values. Like I know people read into the XFL losing like fifty sixty million dollars whatever the official number is, But when you look at the Redbird XFL model, a lot of what they do is to save money. The whole Arlington set up, travel not paying taxes in Texas, three teams there, All of
that is to save money. And we know about Fox, they've been in the money saving business with the USFL for a while now, so a lot of what they do is by default because it's bare bones now, there is
some expenses that they're going to be cutting down upon in the future. You know, we saw a little bit of that in the off season with seasonal employees rather than full time their head coaches in order to coach in the league in twenty twenty four, had to agree upon becoming seasonal employees and reduction and pay. It's crazy, but it's the reason why Wade Phillips is in San Antonio right now. Is hinz Ward refused to sign a reduction in his space.
He's landed on his feet. Whatever. He's found another coaching job in the coaching ranks, but Wade Phillips would not be coaching league. The problems would probably not be this good if they didn't have Wade Phillips and AJ Smith and all that. And Mark lily Bridge has done a tremendous job with that roster. So I think this marriage these are two like minded partners. Disney's
is part of this too. There. We don't know their breakdown, but it's been reported sports business journal Ben Fisher that Disney is definitely part owners in this whole thing. You get what you put in. So hopefully at some point they'll be able to sit back and reassess and decide they're gonna have to spend a little bit of money in order to grow this brand. It's not enough for them to just exist and expect growth. You're gonna have to start
planning some seeds, and that's gonna involve money. Yeah, That's why it's just all of these Everyone seems adverse to taking any sort of like wide swing or risk here, and I just don't you know, we saw that with the USFL. I'm like, well, we're gonna go into some of the hubs, Like I never believed in year three we're gonna have eight USFL teams
in the you know, eight cities. That way, it just feels like we're always kind of on this, we're on the edge here, and it never really feels like anybody wants to kind of jump into the pool full you know, full feet, And I just don't know, I don't see what changes in that. I guess, you know, what needs to happen for them to be like, Okay, now we got it. We're gonna invest another one hundred million dollars. I don't know if people remember this, but
I also I reported this. It seems like twenty years ago, but it's not. The XFL in twenty twenty three was going to do a full on hubb in Arlington with all their teams playing there and just to save money. And then they decided against that. And I remember when I reported that, you know, they were thinking about it full on. That means the Saint louis playing in Arlington everybody, And I remember when I reported that they were
thinking about that. But they're shifting away. They're going to play in their stadiums. Danny Garcia, who's not an x anymore. I guess it's called liked my tweet, which, like, you know, a further validation of you know, what I was reporting was accurate. You know. So it's crazy like they during this whole process, right, I think people forget like
there was a chance this merger wasn't going to happen. And I don't know the full details on this, but when Fox and Redbird submitted their paperwork, which I reported first back when I was a news hub, you know, they the government asked for revisions and update on info. So it took a while. You know. The expectation was that this was going to be approved by the government, but it actually took a while. And in the meantime
before they actually submitted the paperwork, they discussed so many different scenarios. That's why we got so many reports out there from people about multiple hubs. They legitimately talked about twelve teams. I was just talking to somebody this morning about this. They legitimately talked about ten teams. They talked about Canton, Ohio as a possibility for the league. They went through everything until eventually the final
paperwork was submitted. Once the final paperwork was submitted, they even debated up until the eleventh hour whether or not to have the gamblers or the roughnecks. Well, and I think they gambled poorly. Yeah, and when I reported the eight cities, everybody jumped the gun and automatically assumed gamblers, and then they put it on as their own work, right, And as it turned out, you know, they stuck with the rough next thing. Now we
can argue whether or not that worked out or not. I'm sure we'll get into that momentarily. But you know, I tend to want to I love the football aspect, I love these players, but you got to understand what these leagues. And I know there are a lot of people that are upset at me that have put out the attendance figures within the league. They don't like that the focus is so much on those numbers. It's not fun to
look at sometimes when you only see six thousand fans. But a big part of these leagues is big, big markers for them is how they're doing in attendance, how they're doing in ratings. Nobody pays I mean, you pay attention to NFL attendance, NHL, NBA, some cases, MLB. If a team's going really south, the whole thing with the athletics. Right now, everything's pretty crazy, you know, with the Oakland losing another team and
all that wackiness. So but with these leagues, attendants and ratings are important and it's a barometer, it's a marker as they build up. People have to also understand, like you cannot expect. You have to step outside the bubble. And you know, you put yourself in a family man's shoes in terms of spending money, and put yourself in a sports fans shoes and you know, as the weather gets better out there, it's nice out there today, at least on my Neckea Woods, looks like it's nice. Where you
are. People have options and things to do. I'm not trying to make excuses for these leagues, but it is difficult if you're I don't know how you want to list it. But the UFL is like what seventh, eighth, ninth in the area. I don't know however you want to write that. You know, it's NHL, NBA, NFL, et cetera, et cetera, and then UFL. You know, it's like a lacrosse league pickleball. It's kind of I'm sorry, he hits everybody out there. I love
football to death. I'm paying attention to UFL more than in the NBA playoffs. I mean, go Nicks, who are probably gonna choke in the playoffs. But but I'm honestly, like i'm here, I'm an advocate for this. I make no bones about it. I'm not a fanboy for any of these teams in the league. I have loyalty towards a certain team as a child. I got it on the if you can see that faded Jets logo there, But when it comes to these leagues, I root for the league
as a whole. So I'm actually sitting here, you and I are recording on a Thursday. I'm sitting here hoping that NBA games wrap up and that there's no big time NBA games on Saturday and Sunday, just so the UFL has a chance to do a better rating of the weekend. So I make no bones about it, I'm rooting for these leagues to succeed because I think they're great for the football landscape. It means a lot of jobs, a
lot of working people in football. And you know, as someone who's been an advocate of these leagues forever, my love through the NFL, the NFL Draft College football led me into my love for the original USFL the CFL. Because I've monitored and followed these players, I understand how such a small percentage of players make the National Football League, and I think there's value in having
these kinds of leagues. It's fun to me. And also the odds are so much against them that actually root for the underdog, So this is like the ultimate underdog. Like the likelihood is that these leagues are not going to make it because all of them have died a miserable death, and so attendance and ratings it's not fun to look at, I know. And for anybody who support of the league, they don't like to see Birmingham on only seven
thousand fans. They don't like to see whomever with six thousand and whatever, Houston, Memphis. I don't know, but hey, those are the numbers. Those are the reality. I got to report it. I can't fanboy
it up. So I mean that's kind of the story there, So we'll see, Like, you know, in terms of like these leagues building popularity, I think the leagues themselves are quality, I think, but Redbird and Fox and Disney they need to reassess and they're not going to go all in, but they need to see where they are, where they're weak and uh and build some strength in those areas. They need to They get what you
put in, so they need to put make more of an effort. If they want to see growth, they're not going to get it by default.
Expectations for the league in terms of attendance, well, I guess the first off, so because you talk about that and uh not want you know people, you get like the Emory Hunts of the world, and I respect Emory tremendously, Like you watch this football to see fans, I'm like, well, but if the goal is to sell these leagues off in five years or ten years or at some point in the history of mankind, like, you're going to need to have more than six as people. And that's why I
care about attendance. Is that do you you know you you said you view it as kind of a barometer as well, But ultimately that is the goal, right, It's not we don't care about it's not the money we're making at the gate. It's you got to have someone there that's interested in bringing these teams to market, right, right, and as far as the attendance thing, And I get where Emory's coming from with that, right because I watch football anywhere, any place, anytime. So for me, I get
it. For the diehards, you know, that's you know. But here's the thing though, and forget about the optics of it, for the people who are casual fans that turn out a game and see nobody there. And the thing is, if you're watching a wrestling show, if you're watching a sporting event and there's no fans in attendance, there's no natural game atmosphere and energy home team, road team. It takes away from the perspective of the
game. It takes away it decreases the value of it. You watched the Saint Louis DC game this past weekend was probably the worst collection of games in the UFL. It wasn't that the play was awful, it was just, you know, kind of lopsided. Birmingham beat the crap out of Houston. Saint Louis. That game, the Saint Louis DC game, that atmosphere was fun. It got away from DC and the second half it was seventeen to twelve. They got back in it, and then obviously battle Hawk steam rolled
them. They got a big measure of revenge from last year. But that game, that game felt like a great Sunday afternoon pro football game. Big plays, it was kind of fun, back and forth. The crowd was into it. It enhances it when you watch it when you watch a college football game and the crowd is going crazy. If you're watching like a Georgia Alabama game and there's like, you know, a few hundred people in attendance, and people are just walking around and nobody's a fan of the teams and
they don't care, it decreases the interest of the game. It makes it's it's just the way it is. So it's important from a business aspect. It's very important for these leagues. They need to figure out a way to create revenue streams. Now, I was on your Big Show when you were in Arlington before the season opener for Renegade Stallions, and I told you I shared conversations that I had that day with someone who had very modest expectations for
the attendance. We went over numbers. I can't really you know, like
for some of these markets, the expectation was lower than the others. So like for like Memphis, the Michigan situation because of late ticket sales, then there weren't sitting there going I hope you get twenty k. I mean, everybody wants to get twenty k. But last year, because I'm aware of how poorly the USFL teams did at the gate that even when you see six thousand, seven thousand, that's you know, somebody's USFL games were in the
hundreds. And I'm not talking about you know, the games that had neutral syche teams whatever, the Stars playing Michigan or whatever. So they're working hard, but they're understaffed too, Like the Jon Jason Ganella, I pronounce his name correctly, all those guys. That team is understaffed. And so they had a small window because, like I mentioned earlier in this conversation, there
wasn't a guarantee that the government was going to prove it. When they did approve it, it was kind of like a they had just a few months
to get it up and running. I know they already had seeds kind of playing in Saint Louis and DC, but people forget like there was a lot of uncertainty with the XFL right after their season ended with the Vegas situation where the Roughnecks were going to play, and then when the merger was announced, so the intent to merge was announced, then it was there's an extreme amount
of uncertainty who's coming back. It got to the point where when eventually the cities were announced and the Who's coming and all that, people were celebrating in Saint Louis, Hey, battle Hawks are back. You know they were never gone to begin with, but it couldn't. It was at a point where the leagues didn't know whether or not they would be approved. And also they
couldn't you know. I know, they did deposits and all that and ended up refunding certain teams seat or whatever, but they didn't really So I think this off season leading into the next we'll see what the timeline in the calendar is. And the league has to help out their staff, you know, you the guy, the people that are involved in sales. They're trying, but they in a perfect world, you'd have teams set up and you'd plant
seeds. You'd have teams set up in each market pushing, and you would take the entire off season to start planning seeds for you know, community events everything else to start selling tickets and promoting locally, so you have six seven months a cell tickets. You shouldn't have to wait two weeks before the season starts to you know start you know, actually pumping out or promoting to get
ticket sales. So hopefully the bridge from twenty four. The expectations were modest at best for attendance this year, and so there was a hope that the USFL teams will pick up, maybe Birmingham will pick up. They're freaking they've gotten to the point where they're good enough where they should be doing twenty K game. I can't quite figure that one out because for years I heard about how Birmingham's been burned by these leagues. But I so many people said to
me, Birmingham needs to have a team. Birmingham needs to have a team. Birmingham needs to have a team. Here you are, you have a team. They're really good. They're tremendous. They got NFL talent all over the place. You're gonna see when the offseason comes out of like twenty players signed on the NFL teams. They're well coached, they're well run with Zachary Potter. So you would figure by now that Birmingham would have been a hit, a smashing hit. They have a good name, Stallions, cool brand,
et cetera, and they're not. And they're in a position where the Stallions might actually make pro We'll see what happens with the Chiefs, but Stallions might make pro football history. Something hasn't been done in a very long time. A pro football team winning three straight championships hasn't happened since the Elks in the late seventies early eighties and the Packers before the beginning of the Super Bowl era. So anyhow, so you there, the expectation levels were modest to
begin with. I think pressures on though right now. I believe the league last year, the XFL last year, because the USFL didn't disclosed their numbers, they were pretty bad. The XFL last year, I believe sold over six hundred thousand tickets. I want to say six hundred for forty three games, right if you count the championship game, which is like twenty two thousand. San Antonio. I think the league right now is a little bit like two hundred and eighty thousand. I believe, so at the halfway point,
they're a little behind what they did last year. The XFL so I think that'll help with Saint Louis games. Saint Louis is playing really well. Looks like we're getting possibly going to have seven Saint Louis home games. I guess they got a few left now, and then of course the playoff game and then the championship game. So that might help the overall tenants when the end of the season comes. But it's definitely a topic and it's definitely a marker
for fans to see whether or not the league is catching on. People who hate these leagues love my attendance tweets because they're like, aha, look at look how poorly they're doing. They really love the people who are CFL loyalists. They loved my attendance tweets. Makes me feel guilty for putting them out there, but I'm a reporter. That's what I do. I have people want to know and so and then even when I put them out there, people think maybe they're fudged. Trust me, they would they would not I
have done that. I'm just a messenger here, but they would not be happy to let people know that only seven thousand people showed up in Birmingham, that only six thousand those were not you want to fudge it a little bit better than that in terms of your talking getting you know, we need to get people in these markets working, right. I know, Michigan they sent out you know, like they're doing a meeting greet here on Saturday. You
know, like, but it's all contingent. Okay, we're going to fly in, we're going to go to the thing, then we're going to go to the game, then we're going to fly out, right because we can't you know, we can't keep people in these markets over either do any of that stuff, you know, at the end of the season when they when they lay off or whatever, all these salespeople anyway, you know, I
just don't see them doing the year round. I mean I know that I agree that that's what they need to do, but I you know, at the end of the season, a lot of these seasonal people, coaches tickets offf all that's going to go away. So I don't know how you build that offseason at all, right, And it's such a small window, you
know, ten weeks pust to playoffs whatever. Like, I just don't know how you you ever hope to build this And the only markets that, like you said with DC and Saint Louis that are you know, exceeding any expectations right now. Are the ones that have been around since twenty eighteen, right And you know, I think they're not going to do this, but you you would, You would hope they would. But you almost need team presidents
in the markets. You need infrastructure there, you need to have headquarters there, and so that's money, that's spending money. So you need boots on the ground, and I think whether or not they're willing to do that.
So it comes down to whether or not you're gonna have boots on the ground, like marketing promotion teams in each individual city to promote the leagues, or if you're not going to put the actual teams in their cities you know, to be there all season round, or it comes down to spending money on promotion and marketing dollars, radio ads, TV ads, advertisements locally and then putting a budget towards that if you're not gonna put because they're understaff when it
comes to ticketing and sales and they don't do a good enough job. That's tough for me to say, but they don't do a good enough job promoting to begin with, like I would be beating people over the head trying to tell them that tickets are available and all that they try. But I think I would go overboard, just sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, to the point where you'd be annoyed with me. But so so anyhow, but I think it's a tough one because it's going to require them.
I spoke to someone who worked in the other United Football League recently and they said that they saw an increase once they started to put promotion and marketing in the individual markets like these just said, put people boots on the ground and it wasn't by any beads like great, but they saw an increase. So, you know, the the the other UFL, which people have forgotten about but not too long ago. But I think that's what they need to do.
They're gonna need to use their resources. And whether or not they want to do that, but you get what you put in, you're not. You know, their whole thing is the crawl before you can walk strategy and then and then get to walking and then get to the running part. And they're still doing a lot of crawling in a lot of respects. And at some point you need you're gonna need a boost, so you can start walking and they're gonna I I think, if you got to go out swinging.
If they're satisfied with this and they just they're okay with low attendance numbers and modest ratings and they don't want to see you know, the game's average two million viewers or games average twenty k. If they're okay with this modest stuff, then all right. But if they actually want I don't think they are. If they want to actually be a success, they're gonna have to put They're gonna have to put in more work, more promotion. They're gonna have
to spend some money. They can strategically do it. Russ Brandon, that team, they got to come up with a strategy might as well. You know, that's what's happened to the leagues of the past. They swung for the fences and struck out immediately gotten too the red. So they're so scared of striking out. But at some point you're gonna get to the point where you go, all right, do we want this to last forever and be
a success, and then we better take our swing. So I'm thinking if they don't do it this coming off season, going into twenty twenty five, then they're gonna strike out eventually. So I'm thinking that this offseason is going to be a key for them. We'll see how they allocate their resources because they're gonna I think they're gonna need to step it up a little bit and they're gonna have to take a couple of risks that maybe they've been trying to
avoid for the last few years in this space. You know, it's just like lack of consistency because even in I think and I think it was Andy and I were talking on one of the things, like, you know, you have these eight social media people right, they're working like Leah's on there doing these Hey come, you know we're I'm here in San Antonio. We're doing all this stuff, Like why don't you Why doesn't every team do that? Why doesn't Jay do that? Why doesn't the people that do the I
don't know who does the roughnecks? You know, social media? Like, even if you don't want to spend the money, like you don't have to, there's certain things like you already have people in place that you can do right, And I don't know if it means flying the social people in early, let them run the table up on the Saturday ahead of the game for a Sunday. I mean, I liked that we did the draft thing. I like that, But I don't know why there's not a permanent fixture in
front of the Rangers stadium all the time. Hey, we're doing games here, We're doing games here. I mean that is a hugeonger ration of sports. And like anyone that's been there, like there's tons of stuff to do, and there's restaurants and they're like the run the thing where you have a banner in Texas Lab all the time. Like, I mean, there's just things you can do that I don't think because people always say, like, well you criticize, you don't want to, you know, given like there's
things that they could be doing already that they're not. I think the little things like that, yeah, they definitely need to do that. It's borrow like a wrestling term, like you got to start acting like a little bit like an outlaw promotion, like you know, like like I know, maybe they feel you're above it to handing out flyers. I think they do. I think that they think that they yes, yeah, they think they're above it. But I think you need to go above and beyond another thing that
they need to do. And you know, I've been saying this for the longest time. It's been falling on deaf years. They need to embrace all media like especially like people who are trying to cover you, like fantasy football, gambling. Just embrace all of them. These people are going to promote for you. They're gonna end up working for you unpaid. So that's the thing, that's the How do you sell tickets in the market locally? You know, there's a lot of good people covering the league. I spoke with
Greg Luca, who's in San Antonio. We've had some conversations. Maybe I can't get into too much of that, but he covers the promise. He does very good work for them. They just don't do the traffic there. There isn't a lot of local interest there in San Antonio. I think you need to be proactive and reach out to media members in each market. I remember the XFL in twenty twenty, they had carte blanche they give to Rich
Samini, who covers the New York Jets for the New York Post. They went to media members and they, you know, Stephanie Rudnick and that team did a very good job. Humble yourself. Like you're a new league, you try and to these media members, they'll promote the league for you. So you need to roll out the red carpet and you know, and I would do that with everybody who wants to cover the league. Don't shun them
because they're promoting your league. They will promote your league. You'll be surprised if you start giving people access and information how much they embrace your league even more and root for you to succeed. They'll openly work for you to succeed, for your players to get attention, for your coaches to get attention. If you expect them to come to you, it's just not you know,
it's especially with these new leagues. It takes a while. You know, in the early stages of any professional sports league, it takes time for like mainstream outlets and for a lot of outlets to start coming to your games and writing about you. And there isn't people clamoring right now to cover these leagues, not in the numbers that they need. So if you in each individual's market, target every media outlet, to target every media outlet that covers you,
be transparent and give them information. Do it the fantasy community, do it the gambling. You got so many people out there established to run all these outlets that are trying so hard to get these you know, use another wrestling term, you get these leagues over and you know so so that that's I think that is. If you're not gonna put boots in the ground infrastructure and individual markets, have the teams there year round, all that, you
really need to olive branch. Put out the olive branch for people, even people who are ignoring your league, contact them and see if they'll do a story like just That's basically that's how that's what the XFL on twenty twenty did effectively. They were they reached out. They weren't. They didn't. They humbled themselves. They reached out to every medium whoever was willing to cover.
They reached out to NFL teams, they reached out to scouts, they reached out to every community to try to get them to cover the league and so to get hey come on, we'll take care of you. Hey come on, and a first class operation from top to bottom. So they did a tremendous job. So I think these are you can't you get what you put in, You're not going to get the numbers you want, the attention you
want by just existing or being it not gonna happen. Well, and then you know someone that's worked in local news, like I'll give you you know a lot of these sports departments with love, like oh hey, I have I have you know, free free extra content here the cover, right, especially in some of these markets. I mean, are the Spurs. I don't even watch NBA, but like I assume the Spurs are rather than right, they're not playing, Like what is san Antonio talking about right now?
In sports? Right? Like? What are they talking about? You know what we are? What is Saint Louis? You know? I mean, like what are they talking about? They certainly not talking about, uh, you know, football of any kind. But I just don't like you need to do that. And then what was I gonna say? Because also, like it's not even like you got to send a crew out, like all this stuff is virtual right now at least like take advantage of being in the
hublic to me and I'm not there. I imagine it's a little bit like summer camp, right, like we're all here, You're kind of just part of this all the time, right, like the coaches and when we had Heinbach on, he had to do it on a Sunday because they're like, but we're kind of existing in this whole sphere for the twelve weeks or whatever, right in training camp and all that. It's like of any time that
you could get players and coaches on like now is the time. It's not like, you know, five years from now, like oh well, I'm off on the weekend, I'm going out of town or I'm like what do you, Like, what are you doing on a Tuesday after practice? Like you're in the hub in Arlington, Like get these players, get these coaches all Like that's what I don't get. It's not even like you got to send people out to do this, pull it up on your phone, have
them call it from the locker room. It's not like CFL does that. Hey, we'll have I can't remember who. It was like he just sat in the locker room after practice for ten minutes, like you could hear people walking around. It was cool, but it was like that was a free thing that didn't cost any money, and like here you go, that's that's free promotion out there that you know, ten minutes of someone's time, right, and you know, like the credit to the CFL, Lucas Barrat,
shout out to all that group over there. They'll reach out, you know, they reached out to Anthony Miller myself to interview CFL Combine players and all that and so set up interviews, and they they reached out to us, Hey, would you like to interview these people? Would you like to interview these coaches? Would you like to interview these prospects? And so that was really cool and and they're appreciative of the coverage and they extend the outlem.
It doesn't cost you anything to do that stuff, by the way, so it's a it's a matter of hustling. Now. I understand they're understaffed, and but I think they need to reassess their position and what they can do from a pr standpoint, what they can do from a media standpoint, And a lot of cases, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. I know, this is like the eight hundredth first impression, you know, basically between the USFL and the XFL and all the reiterations. But
yeah, I think that's a big factor. I think the more media members that cover the team. Your tenants will go up if you that's that's that's a trick. They'll promote. They promote your games by default. And they paying local papers. I know papers are going by the wayside, but in online media, you know, so it'll help more people come out to the games. Well, and I think that they're because you know, and I
think I talked about this with Greg Parks. You know, there was that whole gambling podcast asked that the guy went on the round about not being able to go, like and I wouldn't have handled it that way, right, I mean, I think we can talk about that. But you know, I think that the league is afraid of, like we're going to send someone on a podcast and they're going to get burned, right, because we saw what happened with who is the guy that leaked the cities in the XFL the
DPP for Orlando was it? And he yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, I'm forgetting the gentleman's name past. It's passing me at the moment, but I know, talking about something, yeah, but I but so they're worried about that, right, and I understand that, But like then you just blackbar that person and they're never able to do you know, like you but I think that's what they're afraid of. Right, Well, we don't have time to go through all these different people that want
to talk or Worldwick. We don't want to deal with how many Gambay pockets like they're afraid of that where just let him do it and then if something doesn't work out, then you're like, what is the worst that happens at this point, Like you know, I can't even keep Butler. Yeah, you know, it's like, no, we're not going to ask for so security numbers. You know, we're not going to ask for past codes or
anything like that. There's only like a secret information, you know, it's uh so I or do we like Brian stole Is and just like he'll just sit in the background and work on other stuff and then you're just listening and if anyone, I mean, if you don't you can be on the calls with a lot of these I mean I have that with the CFL people sometimes that they want or like you know, when when they had on when the High Bach was on, you know, Beyonca with Renegades was on there.
I mean that's fine, but they just keep that on in the background. If anyone's doing it, you can call in and I could even have on stream yards people sit in the background and listen and be able to say, hey, you know what, don't talk about like but at this point, we're not expanding cities right now. There's there's no like secret sauce you're hiding at this point, like we're week five, week six of the UFL season,
Like we're just trying to kind of talk about football here. No one's like starving and talking about living conditions like whatever the league that Sam's Sam's you know, you know I have players living in hovels at this point, like everyone I think is being taken care of pretty well. Yeah, yeah, thank goodness for that. We don't have the craziness that we're seeing. Unfortunately, in the arena football they talk about dropping the dropping the bag, dropping
the ball anyhow. That's a conversation for another time. But you know, unfortunately with a lot of these leagues, you see that finan financial issues, everything else, they're unable to They talk a good game, but they're unable to back it up, are you? And then we'll talk football here? You know, we've done a lot of attendance and defuse. But are you surprised with the damage that the USFL markets did, and especially especially with Birmingham
season one to two? Right them not? And then with these USFL markets, with the Memphis and the Michigan like it. I never would have thought that the Hub and all of that would have like hurt Birmingham. It seems like as much as it has where they cannot get it. I mean, and I know it's still a high water mark compared to like, you know, Houston, but they can't get anyone to that stadium. I don't know what's going on with that general area because at least, you know, we
saw Fox release the numbers. At least Birmingham locally is doing well ratings wise, right they were one of the top regional markets that's been watching the league. And I know part of that is, like Birmingham was the first game of the season, they've been in primetime slots, et cetera. So of course their numbers are going to be a little bit better than some of the
other teams. But it hasn't translated obviously to the box office. I'm not you know, there's a reason why only three USFL teams survived this merger. I know the Gamblers are part of it, but not the Gambler's brand. The Gambler's never played in Houston, so they, you know, the only home stadium teams basically, you know, Birmingham, Michigan. I'm not you
know the numbers Michigan. I always thought the Panthers were an awesome brand from the original USFL, but I was surprised they chose Michigan and Ford Field. That was a unique and curious move. And so as far as Birmingham goes, they they've been disappointed from day one, and they said it publicly in terms they don't understand why they haven't taken off there, So people don't like to hear it. The people who backed the Stallions, God bless you.
I'm glad you do. I wish there were more people like you, because it just really they need to do better, like everyone knows, like we were kind of like you grade them on a curve, like if Michigan or Memphis tomorrow does twelve thousand in a game, whoa nice? If Birmingham does twelve thousand, go oh boy, come on, guys. And people don't understand that too. I mean yes, you have to grade these on the
curve. It's not They're not all equal franchises right now. Yeah, And like Saint Louis, for example, who sit there, there's a lot of people, I get it. You know, they did thirty one thousand in the last game, and they're like, oh, man, I wish they could have done better, and well, you know, you go, you forget. You know, hey, thirty one thousands figured out, right,
that's not bad. Thirty one days pretty good. But you know they've set a bar now, right, So you got Anthony Beck on social media toy halt like they're trying to get the Saint Louis fans to show up this weekend for the Houston game. I'm not that they don't show up. I'm not saying that, but but you know, they wanted to like build up that number and then that thirty five, thirty six, thirty seven, thirty eight, maybe past forty range, right, But there's different curves here. Birmingham
is like one of those. To me, one of the biggest disappointments I expected. I knew the numbers lilast year, right, Like I said, there were some games in the hundreds. I knew the numbers, no matter how many spatuls he gave out Michigan and Memphis. I kind of expected this when I saw the six seven thousand stuff, I was like, yeah, all right, you know, I wish it was better, but you know, I didn't expect a great lead from four hundred and eighty three to like
twenty thousand in a year. So I'm sorry. But to me, Arlington and I understand their own five now, right, so they're win list. There's not a lot of reason to go there. To me, Arlington, it's not quite the Birmingham situation, but you would figure since it's the league's hub that they would do much better locally there of promoting and marketing and you know, and being able to sell tickets and get the word out. And
to me, the Renegades have been a disappointment in the league. Their last game wasn't bad, attendance wise was okay, but I think they should do so much better now. I think, you know, it's unfortunately their own five, So I don't know how you're gonna convince so many people come out to those games. I hear you, but but I think Arlington's been one of the disappointments in League San Antoni. You know, they whatever drew over
twenty thousand fans in their home opener last year. Unfortunately, unfortunately in the local media, they had stories coming out that people employees were getting fired and people were expecting the you know, so it didn't really help matters and then they were really bad the Bramas. But the Brahmas are a really good team this year. They're exciting, their fun to watch, So you'd hope that
those numbers will go up as the season goes along. May they might, they might, but it's not the smash it that it was in the AAF five years ago now, and so so there's definitely the it's you grade these teams differently, and Birmingham to me is one of the teams that you hope as the season goes along that those numbers start to creep up and they start to do better and better, that they have a home playoff game that has a twenty three K or twenty four K that will be they should they should
do that, because you got to wonder about that lease. You hate. You can't lose that Birmingham brand. But I believe that lease expires this year, so oh see what happens. Yeah, in terms of the difference. And I was at you know, the USFL kickoff in twenty twenty two. That felt like a hub. There was branding around there and they had you know, kind of like signage and they had the USML But like if it felt like that that was the home of that out of the players were staying
like literally right across the streets. That kind of helped all that stuff. There is no like and people talk, oh the XFL or the UFL hub in Arlington, like that doesn't exist, Like it's not the same, it doesn't feel the same. You would not know it exists. You could see that Texas live across the street and have a barbecue and not realize that this is there at all. Like it's I understand the comparison there, but like people if unless you've been to both of them, like it's very different,
but it is. You would think that it would draw better. But it's remarkable how it does not, you know how its Yeah, and all those teams are there locally in Texas, you would hope because Texas such a great football place that that you know by now. They even adopted the name Arlington rather than calling themselves Dallas, you know, to try to ingratiate them,
you know, themselves with the Arlington area location. So anyhow, But but yeah, you know, you know, some of these things, some of these teams and cities have underwhelmed, and that's why everyone's always calling for relocations and all that, you know. But we'll see two more things and then I want to talk to Brahmas and and stuff here with the quarterback. I know, we're not surprised that Houston is not succeeding this season, you know,
with the rebrand and all that stuff. But like, I don't know, to me, that's like what a swing of the miss like you you know, and I understand the politics were involved in that merger and you got to keep four and four and all that, but like, I mean that that killed that franchise. I mean, I don't I don't see anybody in the comments on our videos and you our team stinks now and they give us all this stuff and they expect us to come out Like do they reverse course
on that? I don't think you can. But I mean either same with the kickoff here and and changing that whatever before the season. But this to me was a huge swing in THESS that I think has an egg on their face. Yeah, in hind Site, they should have just stuck with the Gamblers. If they're gonna keep the Gamblers players, Gamblers coach prompt best Gamblers players from last season, they should have just said, hey, Gamblers have their own stadium. They're gonna be playing in Rice. Come on out.
We don't know how we're gonna do, come on out. It would have been a different feel, right, even if they got six seven thousand and eight thousand, you know'd be like, hey, this is their first time playing at home and they're trying to build their brand. This is their first time actually being there. Once you knew Wade Phillips was out in Houston and you weren't keeping the rough Necks players, I think at that point they should have stuck with the Gamblers. Just done the four and four, you know,
don't create this weird confusion, because that's what happened. Basically. You know, it's like you're not really rooting for the Roughnecks. You're you know, and then that you know that you're already changing from TDECU to Rice.
You don't have Wade Phillips. It's not the same team. But like if the Jets all of a sudden, you know, they all their players sauce guard and all their players go and they move on somewhere else, the entire roster, and now they're they, I don't know, they're the Cleveland Browns whatever. You know, you're gonna have a lot of just fans going with the hell and they're not playing in the same stadium, and you know,
so it created a lot of confusion. So in hindsight, they probably should have just stuck with the Gamblers. And if you're gonna keep the Gamblers staff, the Gamblers players, just keep the brand because these are not the real roughnecks. Now, maybe over time they'll grow into it, but you know, it's it was awkward to begin with. From Jump Street. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. It was a poor choice, poor decision, and I would have I would have stuck with the Gamblers brand.
It would be a different optic right now if the Gamblers. If the Gamblers are finally playing at home and they're only doing seven K, but they're not winning games, so maybe they can build it up over time they start winning and all that. But it's it feels like they failed the rough Necks brand, because which wasn't like the hottest of things last year. They were pretty good, they made the playoffs, but it was much hotter than you
know, so anyhow, But it's just the way it went. Well, yeah, because you lost the Roughneck I wouldn't say you lost all, but you lost a non zero a. I would say a larger portion of the Roughnecks fan. And then it wasn't like there was this huge Houston you know, Gambler's contingent. They're ready to embrace it. I mean, I know that there's some go kart driving or whoever out of them, like you know, fans of this team, But it wasn't. It was it was the
least of both because you lost and then you weren't. You know, it's like you leaving your wife or the neighbor that's already not interested in you at all, Like I don't. It wasn't a very good situation, No, not at all. Final thought here on, we get a lot of people on here. You know, they got to relocate, they got to relocate. What is your thoughts on that? Here? As we get and you kind of see some of this because I don't know if we had teams.
I don't know if we relocate after the season, but what do you think. Honestly, I think you have to consider it. You have to get there's no way you can't consider it. Once you make that move, though, that's it, like once you relocate a team, because the problem with
these leagues it's hard to get faith. Like if you go into a new market, you have to choose the right one too, so it's tough once you have Once you send the message that a league is shifting their teams and relocating teams then and there's no stability there, then there's no reason for the new markets to believe that you're going to stay there. And it creates a perception that this league's gonna go away quick, you know, because they already
fail. They're just they're just grasping its straws trying to find a solution. You really need to think it through before you make that kind of decision. You also could look at the TV numbers at the end of the year, regional markets all that see how the market is doing in terms of It's just funny like every year I saw the Fox release their top whatever, top ten markets, and I keep seeing ULSA in Ohio, Columbus, Ohio. They keeps brought up in these things. And I'm not advocating a Tulsa team,
but they're you know that they're watching. So I mean, maybe it's a little bit of the Bob Stoops aspect with the Oklahoma aspect. I don't know, but they're watching. I know if they've actually had teams, you know. But I think they need to assess it. You know, a lot of this comes out of business decisions. It comes down to locking down venues and and what the rental costs are going to be all that, and so I think they need to consider it. But once you do it, once
you pull that lever, press that button, that's it. That's it. You cannot I saw that with the original USFL they were like they were relocating every five seconds. The Renegades played in like seventy different cities, you know, everybody they were trading, franchise, was doing all that stuff. It created tremendous instability, and it made fan base to think, well, this leage's not going to be around for much longer, and why would you invest
in the team that just abandoned. So like, you know, you you assume it's just gonna move it anyway. You know, once ticket sales are bad, all we got to move this too. So you got to plant your seed and then just put whatever your resources into it to try to make it work. I'm not a huge fan unless there's a few like you know, there's a couple of like San Diego and a few places like that you
can find. You know, I'm not a huge because there are markets that will embrace this league, but you have to select the right ones and then once you're there, you're there. So that's it. We'll see I think like Memphis, as crazy as it sounds, I think now watch this will age poorly, but I think Memphis, I think you could make that work. I know that sounds crazy. I'm definitely on the outside on this one.
I think you could make that work. I think you obviously have to have a good team, but I also think you need to you need to put in money and promotion marketing. I think that's a market that it could work because to me, like you know, add the cant team or relocating, or the Nashvilleteiners or tolls that, Like, I would do anything in
my power to get a team on the West coast of any kind. And I don't say it's got to be like I don't care if it's Seattle or Portland or Sacramento or Oakland or I don't even I mean even even like Denver would feel better. Just something that's just not in this mish mash of the southeastern part of the United States, not to me. And when they show the map and you're like, there's just so much of the country that you're
you know, ignoring here. And that's why I just went, you know, I know Andy wants San Diego, but you know, jumping on the Oakland if there, I know, the baseball thing and it's not quite the same, but like they just it's too much that they're missing out on. I would do anything to get a team anywhere remotely near the West coast, all right, And we, like I talk about so many times, the
floor in the ceiling. One of the reasons that these leagues have limited ceilings in terms of viewership is because it's only eight markets, right, But you got to have if you want to maximize your viewership. It's not like the NFL, where every market watches the games, right watches the Arizona cincinnatig So if you want to maximize your ratings, you have to be in the right markets that want these leagues to exist there. So if you're gonna have only
eight teams or ten teams or what have you. That's a big thing with television and viewership too, is the market share. Not having a New York a New Jersey team is a factor. Not having a team in the West Coast is a factor. You want to be in the biggest television markets well, because if you're doing only let's just say right, because I know people like to rag on the New York Guardians, but you know they you would kill right now for an average attendance of fifteen k for these teams. By
the way, the Guardians had a close to thirty thousand fans. So there are two games in the Dead Winter. But even if you have only ten thousand fans in a New York game, that TV rating is going to be higher because you have that market watching the New York, New Jersey market. Same thing on the West coast. So they're limited themselves by not having a West Coast presence, by not having another Northeast team. I think, so they've limited So I if we're up to me, it's not my money.
Again, that they're not on the West Coast because they're trying to save money, but they're not in the Northeast because you have to figure out that whole venue situation and all that that costs money. But if it were me, if you're trying to get bigger and better and trying to get higher ratings, I would definitely consider a West Coast presence and a New York presence as far as I'm concerned to make to make this league have a higher ceiling, you'll
have more viewers. You know, the highest rated non NFL games the New York Guardians game. By the way, that's the highest rated. I just got to say it. So on Fox Sunday afternoon. It wasn't the opening game of the of the season like it actually had higher ratings than the opener for the XFL in twenty twenty so and that was that was on Fox on a Sunday afternoon, So that market helps. You know, that's one of
the biggest markets. So right now, you know, the XFL, the XFL, the USFL, the UFL, they don't have a lot of big TV markets. As far as far as it's going, they need to have a little wider reach. So if they ever get to the expansion or relocation business, I think they need to consider, uh, not only hitting areas that that are watching these games, the regional markets that tell you which areas have an interest that have been an appetite for this. If you do the
data from the AAF until now, you'll see there's a trend. There are certain markets that always watch even when they don't have teams. That should tell you something. Use that info. And so if we're gonna relocate, we got to have a West Coast presence, I think. And I and a whole lot of people are against it. There's like a New York bias or whatever. But like you, I think it's important whatever you do. General's
guardians, whoever it is. I think eventually if this league, I will know this league has made it when they have a New York or New Jersey team, and you know that's my opinion. I will know if they get to that point where they actually have a team there. It's just gonna help the over It helps you over a league too, to have a New York team in the in the in the league itself, because you need somebody to hate that you want to be so it really it's really like a big factor
for these as far as ratings and attention goes and driving interests. So anyhow, we'll see if they can get to that. It just and I know we've talked about this, and I think Greg Parks is going to write the article as well for ufl board. But like, you know, the markets
that they have right now make no sense at all. You know, if you asked, you know, one hundred people on the street, like you know what eight markets do you think that you know, this new football league said, well there's going to be three in Texas and they're gonna have Michigan. They're gonna like it just doesn't And I know that how we've gotten to this point, but yeah, there needs to be at some point there needs to not just be like well, like you know, we have the protectives
at least and you know for birminghammer or whatever. Like. At some point there needs to be some thought process versus just like well it's cheaper to play there and then it is to play somewhere else. I mean, the three you know, the three Houston teams, and I know there are the three Texas teams. I know we've gone about that. But you know, they just it makes no logical sense. Why these are the eight markets and you're
cutting out you know, two thirds of the country. Yeah, and it's like a crapshoots sometimes with these things, because you like a lot of people who are like casual UFL fans will say why are they in these NFL markets? And they got a point, right for sure. But you would hope with the UFL that Birmingham and San Antonio, which are non NFL markets, would actually do better than they have. So sometimes there is an argument for you got like the NFL city, you know, let's go to all non
NFL cities. But sometimes some of the non NFL cities don't hit the way you think they will. You know the reason, sorry, because there's a reason the NFL teams aren't there. Like some of the time, like there's a reason why they don't. It's tough, you know, Like and in Saint Louis has been great, awesome, they deserve that. There's an awesome sports city, right And because the NFL spurred them, spurn them and you treated them the way they did, that's giving them ammunition to embrace this league
even more. Battle Hawks just as it turns out, it's kind of a fun brand and all that, the whole good car they've embraced it. It's kind it's cool, right, Anthony Beck is awesome all that. There's a lot of things to love about the Battlehawk's brand and who's behind it all that, But it's not a guarantee that if you just choose Orlando wasn't not and out of the park last year with the Guardians. I know that team was awful. San Antonio hasn't been a killer. They should be doing better.
I love san Antonio personally. I think I thought it was a very cool choice when the XFL said they were going to go there. It just hasn't. It hasn't been a disaster, but you know, it hasn't lived up to obviously what we got in the AAF, and a lot of people expect it, Like people talk about san Antonio legitimately as a potential NFL. But I'll tell you what, when you see the attendance for the Brahmas, you wonder, you know, I know the NFL brand is like so untouchable right
now that if you put it anywhere it's gonna do okay. But but I do think that they need to start doing market research on what markets are actually interested in their league and like, and then I'm not saying they should almost suddenly go to New Mexico and Tulsa and and all that. But hey, like Columbus, Ohio. You know that's a great football a football state. So you know they have a nice stadium option there at Columbus Worth looking into
last question here will get you out. I appreciate you taking the time here during the day. What is it speaking of the promise here? A quarterback situation? What's going on with this? And then we have the signing. I was traveling yesterday and I don't even really know all about this gentleman and everything, but what's going on with that? And I think Tom Flacco got waved right out saw the transactions. Just kind of catch up on that. Yeah, so I it's out there now. So last week I was told
that the Brahmas were interested in signing Jaden de Laura. Right, He's has off field issues, a pretty serious one involving rape. So it's a delicate situation here, not a great from a pr aspect, him and a teammates sposy or a high school friend or whatever. Coerced to forced a teenager to have sex with them, and so that was found out by Texas State and then he was you know, kicked off the team. Very talented player.
I could see why Mark lily Bridge and know he has experience in the run and shoot, he has success there in Arizona, so I could see why they'd be interested in him. But I was told last week, you know, to not talk about it yet because they're still working on it. So it's out now. So I guess the team will release that information on Thursday,
will officially announce the signing. It could be a dicey situation. Talented player DeLaura would come in right now, would be quarterback three would be inactive with Hey, we're halfway through the season, so there's a question of whether or not he'll get on the field and even play right you would assume, I mean, Dormody, Uh wasn't Dormandy wasn't that great last week. But but uh, you know, you know, you know, maybe down the road they might make a change, but I think it might would take time
for de Laura to step in and be the starter there. And we're getting towards the end of the season, so it's a it's an interesting signing from a talent perspective. I totally see it. From a pr aspect, this isn't like a Chad Kelly situation. You know, Chad Kelly's being accused of like basically harassing an employee there in Toronto, but he's not you know, look, I'm not trying it. Yeah, but there's yeah, there's a different level, you know. So yeah, so I hear you so like
so this is kind of a different situation altogether. So so it's a tough one there. I see why they would be interested in talent wise, if the league had more attention nationally, there would be a lot of people that would be very upset that they're entertaining signing someone like this. Well no, I mean it's the pros and cons of that. Yeah, it's just weird to think they have any pr to you know, if he's even gonna hit
the field or not. So just kind of odd that way. But Mike, I appreciate it here almost now we're here and they're busy and dealing with the family things and everything else. I really appreciate it. Like I said, I like it. Subscribe give us over the thirty five hundred. I was trying to get Tim kaeper on this week to talk arena football. It's his birthday as we record this, So happy birthday, Tim, if you've made it this far. But maybe we'll get Tim on next week because I
want to do a little bit of that. I don't end up full on real league football, but Arena Football League. But you know, there's a lot going on there. And then obviously with the CFL stuff, might get anything else from me before we get out. No, there's some great things going on in indoor football. I'm so wrapped up in pro football obviously, but you know, you got t J. Edwards, the Fighters, all these all these cool teams out there in the IFL, and it's a shame
with the AFL. I was a fan of the Arena Football League during the like NBC kind of resurgence, that kind of era, and so it's unfortunate to to see how things have gone there. You want as many of these leagues, even if it's indoor, which is not my bag of tea, but you want as many these leagues exist and thrive and do well. And so it's kind of the story by the way, you know, like it's a you know, uh, I would hope that people out there would subscribe.
You need what fifty subscribers right now reading exactly. I mean, it's like like one of the BattleHawks the Okay, I know, I know there's like a lot of negativity and sometimes, like I know, it's easier to get likes and fan service and subscribers if you preach to the choir, if you play fan service. So sometimes Reid has some guests here that are pretty harsh, you know, and then like have some pretty strong opinions and be negative. You know, a lot of these people that come on here,
I don't know who's agree with their opinions. Like last week's show, I won't get in all that, but you know, it's this stuff. These are people that actually passionate and care about the leading and want to see it succeed. So I think like that. Hopefully that doesn't turn people off. I hate to be dooming gloom with these leagues because I'm such a huge fan of them. So so anyway, thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate it. Awesome, Mike. We'll see everyone next week.
Like I said, stay tuned, should be another good one and then we'll see you guys next time. Begs