UFL Merger: Is the USFL Carrying Its Weight?

Hey guys, welcome to the Marcafts read here. Surely this episode will ruffle no feathers today. UFL merger. Is the USFL carrying its way? A good discussion today, Lots of fun things coming up on the podcast. All keep this intro short, gets all the interviews here. Three great interviews today, vallid discussions here as we approach UFL week four. You know some of the attendance, you know, did Fox kind of sour the well and some

of these markets giving away tickets here the last couple of seasons. Now we're trying to get the Memphis attendance up, Michigan all of that. I know Birmingham showed up last week twelve thousand. I know they're competing against Alabama and all of that. We'll see what they do this weekend here coming up hosting again the DC Defenders. That should be a good game. But lots of fun stuff today. We have USFL historian Paul Reese joining from our Sports Central.

Really appreciate that Paul books on the USFL has been on to all of the different you know, the branding of the league and then the lawsuits and everything with the USFL and Fox back from old ownership there, so always appreciate getting Paul's the thoughts and everything, really wide ranging conversation with them. You have the TV broadcast the attendance, so we talk a little bit of football teams and stuff, storylines of the season. So certainly I hope you guys

enjoy that. Tsm's Dave Naylor coming on talking all things CFL, Schad Kelly's of it all, Edmonton Elks, lots of things I'm sure we'll get into with Dave, and then Matt mccrane of the DC Defenders game winning field goal kicker here last week. They're going into Birmingham. It should be a great

game this weekend, so excited for that. If you like the work we are doing on here, like seventy away, like and subscribe, get us to thirty five hundred subscribers, we will be at the UFL championship game, and if we get to thirty five hundred before that, we will be giving away two tickets to the championship game. I think you'll be able to sit with the Professor Andrew Murray, I think is what we're gonna do for that. I don't know he signed up for that, but we'll get you going

so like and subscribe. Lots of work going in all the time on this getting interviews and stuff she did Nailor taking time and DC Defenders getting that set up with the league, so obviously with Paul getting his busy schedule coming on. So if you like the work that we do, all the friends that come on like and subscribe. Hope you guys enjoyed the interviews. We'll see at the end. Well we're back here. We have Paul Reeves USFL story

in with our Sports Central. I literally we were done with the UFL kickoff and I'm sitting there talking with Dorothy. I go, I'm such a dummy. I didn't have Paul on to do the pre show kickoff stream, but we can remedy that today. Get a longer discussion with Paul reas. Paul, first off, how are you and why don't you just we have a lot of new subscribers, so maybe just a quick elevation pitch of who you are? Read Thanks for having me on. Things are going well here.

So you know, I'm an old guy, so I followed the original USFL very closely as a young man, never quite got it out of my blood and wrote a book on the league, did a lot of research and interviews just with various people involved, and that kind of led to my interest in secondary alternative leagues. And with that interest, I started our Sportscentral dot com about twenty five years ago and have followed that up since with statscrew dot com.

Our sports Central covers news from around alternative and minor leagues, and stats Crew covers all the statistics, including the historical statistics for a lot of minor and alternative leagues as well as the majors. Perfect and you know, Paul is here today, so we're gonna talk general thoughts kind of football, and then I wanted to get into kind of the thesis here this week of you know, is the USFL carrying its weight here in the merger? First off,

you know, we're going into week four vibes I get. I'm watching that That's good Sports on YouTube as well. I got turned on to that. He's this funny NFL recaps, Like seems that the quality of football. People are impressed, people are happy. Kind of how are you viewing the season thus far? Now that we have the eight teams? You know, I think it's a little bit of a mixed bag, but more on the

good side than the bad side. I think you touched on probably my biggest takeaways so far, as that the quality of football seems to be improved over both leagues last year. We've seen tremendous kicking. For instance, our author France Dutchburg just did an article that had had detailed how improved the kicking has been. You know, to me, when I watched that Saint Louis Arlington game a couple of weeks ago, you can put that up against any football

game from the last year, NFL, CFL whatever. That was a great football game, a tremendous atmosphere and came down to the wire. It was just very well played, and I think you really do see a lot of that throughout the league. So that's that's been positive. Attendance, of course, has been a bit of a mixed bag, but I do think that the television presentations has remained very solid. I like the energy and that the ESPN and ABC folks bring to the mix. But I also think Fox is

up their game this year. It's funny to me, because yeah, it really does depend on who you ask, Like, some people are very anti the ESPN broadcast. Like I'm pretty kind of neutral to all of it. I mean there's certain guys, like the Steve Levies of it all on ESPN kind of get on my nerves screaming. I mean, he's not part of it, like, but certain announcers might bother me, but I'm generally not. But yeah, it seems like you're either team Fox or team ESPN.

It's kind of weird how there's a divide. There. Always got to have these divides here with the Spring football right well. And I mean a lot of it is that we're less than a year away from watching both of them, and they were different presentations, and I think what we're seeing now is a little bit of a blend. But you know, I really do like the energy and I've enjoyed the broadcast by and large. Do you like the

branding now that this is the premiere spring football league we've come together? Do you like because I know we've talked to you and through all this kind of merger stuff, but now that we've seen it kind of in action and what they want this to look and feel like, are you liking the branding around it? Because to me, we still don't really have an identity. Maybe we'll get that next year. Yeah, and you know a little bit, it's so dizzying. You know, we saw the relaunch of the XFL,

which looked different than the previous versions of the XFL. We saw, you know, another relaunch of the XFL, which looked different than the prior to versions. Then we saw the launch of the USFL, which looked a little

bit different than the original USFL. And so now we're seeing yet this a new entity, and there's blendings of the old and the new branding, and I think we're still so new to it that it's it's really hard to get a feel for how it's different than maybe some of the predecessors and how it's going to end up standing out. You know, we say the same thing every time. You know, hopefully by year five or by year three,

let's cross our fingers. Let's hope that we get that far and really do feel like we have, you know, a discernible identity because we and this came up on our live stream on Monday we were recapping or I guess we did it Tuesday. We were recapping the weekend and you know, talking to Tendance and we'll get into all that here, but I said, you know, if you're a casual person, this league doesn't make sense at all.

How it is right now, it makes sense because we know how we got to it where we had eighteen, Like you would never pick three Texas teams, Memphis, Michigan, Saint Louis. That would never be. But it's like, well, you know, because they started to Birmingham and then we did this and we did that, Like is it striking you? I mean TV audience has been you know, consistent, right, they went up against the Masters this week in Fox and ABC are certainly showing their power for that.

But I don't know, it's hard for me when they're showing like maps in the US and you know two thirds of it aren't represented and kind of where the teams are like trying to get that national appeal. But maybe people don't care. Maybe it's just football on TV and that's what people are like, you know, And I do think that it does make a difference. You know, we don't have anything out west at all. In addition, the Northeast is really represented solely by Washington. D c Well, a New

Yorker, a Bostonian. How much do they care about that? So, you know, just having eight markets, and three of them in Texas. I don't think it's helping the TV ratings. I do believe that the networks that are involved are fully aware of that that they just don't have a real broad base. What they're really scraping here is that core group that's going to watch professional football no matter what. Yeah, and even you know there was the not league but kind of the thing a couple of weeks ago, like

new Trademark either that it was Canton and Nashville. I'm like, that doesn't help with your national appeal. Like, I just for the life of me, I can't figure out why we can't get anything going in San Diego except maybe that stadium is just too busy now they have built. Like I just can't wrap my mind how you can't just get a flight from Dallas to San

Diego and get this going. Yeah exactly. I mean, your your operations aren't going to be based in the state anyway, as long as you have the Arlington Hub, so you would think that it would be wide open. You know. I know that the people who were in Canton who went to the games last year really missed them. There just weren't that many of them can't would be a horrible mistake. It would not help at all with the TV ratings. You know, it just didn't make any sense from that standpoint.

It's just really when the USFL did that, they took on all the costs of another hub and absolutely zero benefit besides a kind of decent stadium. Are you used to prize now that we're gotten this far that it's we're doing the XFL business model with you know, where we basically just adopted some of these USFL teams. I mean, we knew kind of the arlington of it all. But I guess that bears fruit to kind of the way the XFL had been doing it from the beginning, even if it was costing more to

do this flying in and out. Because certainly, I think if the USFL had its way or thought saw a success on that side, you know, we would have just done two or three hubs and not been flying out to all of these cities. I think that's certainly right. You know, it does show that the USFL business model that you know, they sat down in the room and compared numbers, and they didn't go with the more expensive proposition

there. They didn't go with the one that made less sense, So the Arlington hub made a lot of sense, and just flying out to the individual markets. I think that it was a realization on Fox's side that yes, we're a TV network, Yes the ratings are going to be the big driver here, but attendance is all so important. It's more than just having props,

it's more than just having the people as a backdrop. That there's a piece of the revenue equation eventually that's going to have to be carried by attendance, and whether that's twenty percent or forty percent or fifty percent whatever, we can't just write it off with ten dollars tickets or I think I ran the numbers last year in Memphis. If you went to both Houston and Memphis games, you could sit in the end zone for like three bucks a game,

which is ridiculous, you know. And what I think there's been a realization that we can't do that long term. That's hurting us. We need to turn this ship around. And so I think you're seeing by and large, more normalized ticket prices than a lot of these markets, because you know, and we talk and even the Monday, you know, the attendance and Birmingham showed out that I have the numbers here, I'll pull up. But you get all this like, well, you know it doesn't matter, right,

it's TV. It's all TV. It's all TV. Hey, And we've talked about this, and we've learned people don't like watching football with nobody in the stands, right, It's really hard. We've we've learned this with the USBL it's such a like what's going on here? Any casual fan that's tuning in, it's like why why is there? Why is there no one here?

So there's that the energy level of the level of it. But then also if you're trying to get people that eventually buy these franchises, which we've been told is the plan, and I think that keeps getting kicked down the road now as we you know, maybe the USFL had that, you know, year five to seven, Well maybe that's another five to seven years from now, but you get I mean, I mean here, Memphis is averaging eighty seven hundred people a game. Like, what am I buying there?

If I'm buying a Memphis franchise? It's a great question, you know, I think right now what you'd be buying is the concept. I don't know that necessarily anybody except the guy who owns FedEx would be looking at that Memphis franchise. It certainly has been a really slow start there, and there's a lot of different reasons for that. But what you'd be buying is a concept.

You'd be buying. Hey, I want the San Diego market, I want Seattle, I want Denver. Those probably would make more sense to a buyer right now than some of the markets where we're seeing really minimal attendance unless things suddenly turn around in those markets. I equated it to It's kind of like how some of these private ownerships with the CFL teams, where it's like, you know, they would be like I don't want to buy a yacht, I want to go buy a CFL team. And then you know we

have like a mar Doman in BC and putting tremendous. You know, that's something he just really believes in and wants to rebuild that and we work with the amateur football, but that is a huge like he is dumping the money, and he is you know, one Republic comes up and cool comes, We're having all these bands. That's him dumping money. And yeah, I think that that's what you're looking for here. With the UFL, it's not going to be here, buy this in turnkey, you're going to make money,

it's you're going to need to put in your own time. Do you see it? Similarly? Yeah, And the advantage of the CFL has is decades of history, so that these guys can look back and say, I remember watching them on TV, or I was in the stadium when this happened, or this was a part of me growing up, or you know, at some point in my life, I really connected with this. So they have more of those people who will come in and say, you know what, I can stand and lose a little bit of money, or maybe I'll

really over the long term kind of draw even on this. That's fine with me. Whereas the UFL, you know, we don't have that yet and it would take a long time to build. So they've got to be looking at some extra intangibles that they're going to build into a UFL franchise in order to sell them. And I do think that it's a few years down the line. Well, and even with the CFL, there's the promise of like, hey, maybe every four or five years you might get a gray cup

and then you really get some money coming back into the city. I mean, that's I can't remember. I think when they were talking about one of the sales that came out, it was like that was part of the guarantee. It was like, Hey, we're going to get you a great cup here just to kind of make sure you you know, you don't have, you know, a multimillion dollar event coming in you know, every year here

with the UFL. That's going to generate that, and you know, we could be looking at a similar situation in a few weeks here Saint Louis puts a really nice crowd into the Dome for the championship game, no matter who's in it, that could be a nice revenue generator. And if if you can promise that every eight or ten years or more, that might be something that helps sway somebody. I don't think that we'd be looking at that in

the next couple of years, but maybe down the line. Yeah. So I have a tweet here and this is from a cather Day on Twitter, and this is running down kind of the average attendants. This is just a good way to kind of visualize it. I had Max kind of run these numbers as well, so that because I hate like seeing this and okay, this is whatever, but what to me? And I hate being the like

whatever. But it's exposing these USFL markets right came in, you know, Memphis now that we're not giving away tickets three dollars tickets right even Houston on here, you know, doing the whole switching bit with that. I think we're seeing a disparity here now. Birmingham showed that up twelve thousand there game one. You would like to see that for a team that's been in the city three years. I know they had the Alabama game going on. Looking

at this general thoughts and then we can dive in more. Yeah, and looking at Houston, I think that the stadium switch has really affected them this year as well. I don't think that we're far enough into the season to really see that the roster switch has hurt, but you know, not having Wade Phillips there probably hurts a little bit. Yeah, And you know, with the rest of it, Birmingham, we've got the one game, which

was easily the best of the USFL draws so far. One of the things that we're looking at is that they I believe they increased ticket prices and all those markets, and so it's no longer that ten dollars seat. So not only are people looking at an increase in the ticket prices, but when they set those values over the last year or two, people are used to those ten dollars tickets. That's what their football team is worth to them now.

And so I think this was probably the biggest mistake that Fox made was they devalued their product to the local populace rather than selling at a normal rate for any other team. They were so interested in getting people in as backdrop as so that it looked like there were people in the stadium on TV that they forgot about the long term, and I don't think they really helped themselves that

much in the short term. I think it was a tremendous mistake the way they priced their tickets, and that's really reflected in three different places on this attendance chart in terms. And this is, you know, kind of again my thesis this week, you know, is the USFL carrying its way?

I don't know, and I always struggle even with like the rough Necks brand whatever, but like I don't know what cachet like a Michigan Panthers, a Memphis showboats has here in twenty twenty four outside of you know, my age or your age higher. You know, you get that, But I just don't know where. I don't know the DC Defenders and I know they're you

know, they're where are they at right now? Fifteen thousand average? I think they had two home games, right Like, it's at least it's a sexy new brand, right the BattleHawks, and then they're kind of standard of that. But I just I don't know if we're getting exposed that way. Also the cachet of some of these just quantity or entities not having in twenty

twenty four. I mean, I don't think that there's really any debating and I think you're absolutely right that obviously the attendance would I mean, for outdoor football to have attendance under eight thousand, I'm not that far away from Green Bay and they can draw that for an indoor football game. It's amazing to me. And they're doing that at full ticket prices. It really is amazing to me how much these markets have struggled. And there are some reasons.

You know, Memphis, for instance, has had a team in every single league that There's Ben Birmingham too, and you see the before this, with the collapse of the alliance, that couldn't have hurt couldn't have helped the local markets at all. But I think you know, your point is right about the USFL branding, which I love. There's nobody who loves the original USFL branding more than I do. But I think they found that it was of

limited benefit here in the twenty twenties. Is that as someone that you know obviously has built a large, you know, a business and stemmed from all this, is that disheartening? I mean? Is that because I think people come on like, oh, like Paul's going to rag on whatever, reads going to like this is something that's been a large portion of your life in a lot of people's lives, to see it kind of get to this point,

you know, it doesn't what I will. I look at the original USFL as something that had a beginning, it had a middle, and it had an end, and they really have had by and large, so little to do with the current happenings with the new league that took on that old name that you know, it's a really it's a new entity. And so that's the way that I looked at the USFL last year, and so you can't. You can't compare attendance in the twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three

USFL to the nineteen eighties USFL. It would have been tremendously unfair to the new one. You can't compare the quality of play where the original USFL was competing for the best players, that's what made them a major league. And the new USFL is is really a developed you know, it was really a developmental league, and really everything since the original USFL has been a developmental league.

And that's fine, and I do enjoy it. I enjoyed NFL Europe, and I enjoyed the World League, and I've enjoyed everything that's come since. So there's there's no insult at all from my perspective there. It just really is what it is. With you. In order to be a major league, you have to compete for the best players, and clearly now these leagues are in a position to do that. The XFL wasn't, the USFL wasn't. There's no shame in that. The NFL is a you know,

multi billion dollar juggernaut. You're not You're not going to compete with that, right now, and you're certainly not going to do with that in the spring. So I enjoy these leagues for what they are, do you what do you? I mean? So I agree with you. But we had Darrel Johnson on before the season and he talks about you, they don't want to be a developmental league. I mean, what do you? What do you

say to that? Just as a side note here before we keep going, like, because like you said, I mean, you're you're a decade away from even being to the point where I just curious your thoughts on that where he says they want to move away from that. Oh, I mean there's perception versus reality, you know, so I can understand that he doesn't want

to be perceived in that way. The reality is, unless you're taking people off NFL rosters or taking collegiance that the NFL wants, you're a developmental slash minor league. That's all there is to it. So what do we do here? Because like you said, I do think, you know, going back if we could reverse course and go back a couple of years here in the price appropriately, Like, what do we do at this point here with the USFL markets? Right? How do you I guess how do you rebuild

that? And I know, like if we all knew how to do that, it would be done. Thoughts about that because I do think, like you said, irreparable damage in some of these markets. I mean, it's going to be super hard to turn the ship around. I think where you've already devalued your product, I mean, how do you take that away? That the only you know? I'm thinking of John Spolstra. He was former NBA Ezech who wrote about how to sell the last steat in the house,

and I think that was kind of the ticket seller's bible. And you know, one of the ways that you do that is by increasing the value of your ticket more freebies maybe, or player visits or you know, exclusive ticket holder events. There are some of those things that maybe can be done. I don't know how much that bumps the needle in these markets, to be honest, you may be looking at choosing the markets where you think you can

build and then reassigning teams to other markets where you can't. That's my fear. I mean, I agree with that, but my fear is if you do that, then you're like, how locked in are you to any of these markets? Right? I mean I think you gotta go. Do you

pull out of Michigan at the end of this year? I just I don't know then whether's that say to the next I always equate when the new ownership took over the Washington Commanders and everyone said, well, they're going to fire Rondrifra, and they said, no, we're going to give them a season because we want the next head coach coming in to know that we'll also give them the full kind of benefit of that. So I don't I don't know

what you do if you pull the plug in any move. And then to San Diego, well, god, if we don't get enough people here, they're going to pull it in the year. Yeah, And you know you mentioned Michigan. At least you have market size with Detroit, whereas it in a place like Memphis. If you're struggling with attendance and you're not your market size is not doing much to help the TV rating, then that's when you really have to take a good hard look at how can we turn this ship

around? Can we turn this ship around? And then do we move? So you know, a couple of different things that you think about is do you move a team or do you expand first and then contract, you know, so that you know, I don't know what the right answer is there. The other thing that I think about is the Original American Football League if

you look at how that league started. And of course everyone knows that the Original American Football League ended up merging ten teams in the NFL and as part of the NFL multi billion dollar juggernaut now, but originally they were drawing three thousand to seven thousand in Oakland. They had to move out of Los Angeles, they had to move out of Dallas, you know, So there were a lot of things that happened there, but part of it was in places

like Oakland and New York. They were able to build from those meager beginnings, partially because the league built around them, and you know, you entered a new stadium situation in New York, but you know, they were able to continue to build in Oakland, for instance. So you have to, Okay, what can we develop a five year plan on which markets can we do we think that we can actually improve and which markets are we actually just wasting our time and we'd be better shirt getting out of right now. I

just and I am always the mister pessimist on here. I just don't, you know, and I, you know, believe in this space and wanted to succeed. I just don't know what the long term play is here where we saw Redbird after one season of loss, like, Okay, we need to you know, we need to downsize. We need to do this Fox the same way. You know, maybe we're seven years away from getting ownership. You know, ratings are good, right, We're averaging eight hundred to

a million viewers. Is that enough? Are we happy enough with that for the next eight, you know, in the next you know, four or

five years. I don't. I would love to be a fly on the wall and kind of know, you know what what like what are the metrics here we're trying to hit because we both of these ownership groups now coming together seem very gun shy about losing any money at some point, And we talked on the Monday Show, you know, like when I quit my day job to freelance, at some point you got to pull the plug, take a hit and build up the other way. But you can't just kind of meander

along at this pace right right. And I think Fox has to be encouraged by ratings because of what they saw last year they had to wonder, you know, are we on a downward slide where this thing is just it's just not working. And to see a rebound I think for them has to be helpful. You know. If anything, I would say that I maybe underestimated Redbird capital a little bit and just how much capital Redbird has. This is a group that is you know, has been in talks about CBS, you

know, so these people have a lot of resources. Now, if they have the patience and the plan to continue with this, we'll see. But I'm encouraged by the level of operations that we've seen throughout the league. Even just from a media relations standpoint, I think these teams have taken a step up, particularly the former USFL teams. They actually have people issuing press really

and game notes and all the things that you normally expect. And that was probably part of the whole that was dug last year and even the year before, where people are like, you know, these people don't even really treat this like a real league. You know, from a media standpoint, it was certainly obvious, and you know, I would imagine that that translated in how the media talks to fans. If they talk to them at all about your product and and in fan perception as well after that, respectfully, yes,

and they. I do enjoy having the USFL teams, you know, having people respond. I like the media portal. Not all raps they're created equal, right, I mean you get a little bit about that. But like even even in terms of that, you know, I get I get the press release every week, Like, hey, Arlington, they're doing a practice. If you want to come at nine, film the first thirty minutes, and then Bob Stoops is going to be around at twelve twenty, and

then you know, Luis Prez whatever at twelve thirty. I would love to meet a single media that's going to go to the Arlington Renegade's game or a practice, you know, on a Wednesday at nine, Like I used to do that for the Seahawks and we'd go film and you'd go to the first ten minutes and then yeah, you'd sit around because you're waiting to talk to you know, Russell Wilson or whatever. Right, I don't I don't know if we're at that point yet, ses I. I appreciate it, you

know, the access in that way. I would be curious that the number of people that are taking advantage of that, and it's hard with the hub. You know that that is one of the difficulties that the hub introduces, as much as it certainly saves them on the cost side, that exposure in the local markets is part of the price that they pay for that, and I you know, that's one of the areas I think that they really need to continue to do some thinking about how you get exposure in the local market.

Does that mean you fly a select group of players in a day early to the local market just to meet great do all those things that you would do if you were low goalie based your cheer team. Are they always around and available treated well so that they're more than willing to go to parades in different other things just to keep your name and your brand out there. You know, it is one of those things that the league has to overcome.

And you know, setting up video meetings is certainly helpful. It does allow local media to interact, So there are some options, but they are going to have to get creative not only in how you really help the press connect with the team members, but in how you maintain a local presence in the market when you're really only there a day or two five times a year. I think that's really hard. And I think that's what I've learned this season

with having all the reps and everything. And we'll start winding this conversation down here, seeing I appreciate your time. You know, it is that it's you know, I go on the I don't have time. I'm a to like do all Hey it's Wednesday or whatever on the zoom. You know, I try my best, and I'll look at the recordings afterwards. Uh. You know, you might have three people on there, right, you might have two people on there talking to whoever, Like I don't uh, you

know, not being in the markets besides the fans stuff. And they do a good job. I think, like, hey, we're doing the thing a meet and greet like right before. You know, they try to do some things that way little town halls and stuff. But yeah, getting the

media. I know Anthony was at the Renegades game, I think it was last week, Like I think he said there were seven people in the press box, which just is not a not a bird in the And that's and that's the hub that you're in. Let alone, you know, what does Michigan look like? I haven't had a chance to go. You know, I always at the kickoff game obviously, but you know, I imagine Saint Louis is packed. I imagine DC has packed, like I don't know what

the Memphis Showboats press box looks like on game day. Yeah, and that's tough. It's tough. You know, you're going to have a little bit limited media buy in because of that. So one of the things that I am encouraged with is that, and particularly contrasting last year's USFL teams with this year's UFL teams, is that you can get transaction notices, you can get

game notes, you can get game recaps. You know, these were all things that were missing out of the USFL puzzle last year, and last year they had taken a step up from the prior year where it was basically, if we can't release it on Colin Coward, we're just not going to bother to release it. So, you know, they've they've continued to kind of up those operations. So when I say that I'm encouraged by the media relations, there's still there's still a lot of improvements that could be made, but

they have taken some steps. Oh yeah, Night and Day compared to especially with the USFL, and that was getting because last year they have like the Hubs had media people and the Yes having people dedicated the media Portlos all that

stuff. Last note for me, we were talking TV ratings and all that, and I know that my Moulba Hill Wholeville, I can never say this last night with the Fox Sports guy tweeting out, you know, like it's forty seven percent increase whatever, because they're consolidating all these TV time slots right

giving you know, we're giving Fox at Nune whatever. What struck me and curious your thoughts, Like I think we're learning it doesn't matter if it's the USFL, the XFL, UFL, Like if it's on a good time slot, people are going to watch. Like I don't know how many now.

I know we've talked this whole you know, interview about USFL, you know, hurting their local markets in that way, and I do stand by that, but I think a general TV audience is like they don't know if it's the Stars or the rough, you know, like, okay, which one is this league? Which especially like when the when the leagues were competing last year during the same time and one of the big helps in TV ratings so far is removal of games from USA and f S one. Now I think

there's an f S one game this week. This one's going to be rough this week, that'll be that'll be the roughest rating. But those ratings were they dragged down the whole average last year in the year before, So it has been very helpful. When you know you're on ESPN, when you're on ABC, when you're on Fox, it does help it. It's a tremendous

boost well. And even I think just in terms of like you know, we go to a lot of sports bars, like even flying back from the kickoff, sitting down at the airport, the TV is already on ESPN or whatever. Right, you're not sitting there like excuse me, like okay, we don't okay, we don't have ESPN two or we don't have whatever. Like it just it being on places where people are just going to find it

naturally. I think it's such a boon. And just having it be like there's always going to be a TV on Fox or ABC or ESPN at any bar you're going to walk into it. I think that helps like oh wow, what's going on? Like that's awesome. That's right. Yep, that helps a lot. And I think that, you know, we have this weird kind of the season when it started to it's earlier than the USFL started last year, but later than the XFL started last year. But I still

think they're missing their window. I was glad to see that they did take on the NCAA tournament, and actually the women's championship proved to be a bigger hurdle than even the final four games. So I mean the thing that you're going to have to embrace this competition. You're gonna you're gonna have competition on TV no matter when. So when is the best time to hit this? Right after the Super Bowl, tax Day, which is what it was last

year for the USFL, or somewhere in between. I continue to personally believe that it's right after the Super Bowl. You ride that wave of football and try to hang on to as much of it as you can. Yeah, and I think take on the habits of people have already built. Right Saturday morning, I'm sitting around watching football. I'm not you know, whether it's terrible, I'm not doing anything. You know, baseball is not on Paul any else from you I don't want to take it too much of your time.

I appreciate it today. Anything else you want to plug or get off your chest here? No, no, you know, as far as getting off the chest, probably you know, I was watching. I've watched most of the games so far, and this league had five fantastic finishes in a row, like literally coming down to the final seconds. You know, a couple of games this last week were blowouts, but you know, just tremendous finishes and it's been super fun to watch so far. And I think this

story it's been a good storyline of the season. You know, a couple of different look at Birmingham coming back whatever, and DC doesn't look like the same team they were last year. And you know, now we have the san Antonio, the Garber's injury. Okay, now we got another sign in, Like what does that look like? Is you know a week ago, it looked like san Antonio was going to be on top of it. You know, that's our team here at the marcass and I chose so you know,

there's there's enough little things like that going on. It seemed like, especially the overlap last year where I got sixteen teams trying to keep track of. I'm like, I don't, I can't process all these storylines right And

the AID at least right now feels good in that way. And that was really tough, you know, and you know when you looked at the disadvantage that I think that served up to the USFL because you had the XFL entering its playoff stretch, and so how much you know, if I have limited time, how much am I going to pay attention in the league in its first week or two of the regular season versus how much am I going to pay attention when it's coming down to the line for the playoffs? And the

XFL. I thought that a fantastic job last year with the presentation and bringing that whole season to a conclusion, where the USFL maybe they were trying to do the same thing as they had last year, only in four different places

and it just didn't necessarily translate all that well. So it has been nice to be able to concentrate attention, but I'm kind of running into the you know, now it's starting to get nice outside, and now it's starting to get really busy, and so not through any conscious effort to avoid games, I'm going to start missing some of them. You know, it was spring break and people are gone, and I was, you know, I'm trying to keep up traveling so I can talk about the games when we get back.

No, I totally agree with that last point. For me, I think going into next season, I would I don't know if we need this, but I think adding the team or two. I hate talking the expansion, but I think having it feel like this, you know that this speaks to the success of the league, like we're moving on and this is a

conversation down the line. But I think they got to have some sort of hook where the USFL going from one hub to you know, three and a half or whatever with the can thing, Like, I didn't feel like that was enough of a hook going into the next season. And I think that that that might be the greatest call. The greatest reason maybe keep teams around for next year is so that you do see actual expansion and not relocation kind

of answer some of those doubts. So, oh, you know, if we struggle right out of the gate, here are we going to get our team inked? It gives you know, a year under the belt at least before maybe you'd move somebody or or whatever, just to you know, just to make the new markets feel better about themselves and about the patience that's going to be displayed. But I think if you would expand it all part of that is you've already answered some of those questions. You've already have some some

good corporate support with sponsorships, you already have an interested fan base. So choosing those, you know, expansion markets would be you know, making good choices there would be very important. Well, Paul, I appreciate it. Our sport Central statscrew dot Com appreciate it. We'll get you back on again. But always it means all you taking the time. All right, thank you so much for having me on RED. Great to talk with you.

Well, it's been a lot long time since we found this gentleman on It was you and Farhan wandering through the VC Lions dead here at Great Cup. Internet issues aside, we have Dave Naylor here, TSN Insider, CFL everything else. David, how are you very well? Other than the internet issues? I was just having there, but I think we got them sorted out there, you go. That's a good I got Matt mccrane logging on.

I got to do it. I'm gonna. I'm sitting into my other chat right here when he hops on me to tell hi're running a few minutes late, So I appre I appreciate that, man. So we're getting ready CFL everything else going on. We were talking a little bit of like the NFL kickoff and all that. Where do you want to start what's on your mind

right now? Well, let's start with a kickoff, because I think that's that's a you know, I was at the CFL combine where they were talking about all that, and it was funny because I don't think people really knew how close the NFL was to moving it's kickoff like five days later, right Like I made some it was sort of references to, like, you know, the NFL is going to talk about this maybe like as early as next

week, and then they pulled the trigger a week later. So I'm kind of interested in how that may have influenced the CFL's decision one way or another. And I think it's always been a different discussion because kickoffs and just the return game in general is so much a bigger part of Canadian football, and

it's more celebrated and returners are more stars. Some of the greatest stars in the league and the NFL because they kind of face it out slowly every time, and because those those players in the history of the game have not been as prominent relative to the other players in the league as they are in the

in the CFL. So there's a lot of sensitivity about this. And the curious thing to me is you see fans on Twitter and things like this, they seem to think the league has some agenda to get rid of an exciting play that has nothing to do with injuries. I don't know what that agenda would be. I don't know why. You know, the commissioner and the different the different people in the rules committee and competition comties would yeah, let's

get kickoff returns out of the game. It doesn't make any sense to me. But I do think there is a greater sensitivity to the fact to the idea of removing them. Now, you're still gonna get a lot more punting in the CFL than you do in the NFL, and you have no fair catch, so it's not like the return game is going to disappear. But

I mean, there's two proposals I think they're looking at. One is that you would give teams the option to scrimmage on the forty yard line as opposed to accepting a kickoff, which they already have for field goals, and ninety six percent of the time last year teams took the ball in the forty as opposed to a return. So you're gonna basically wipe out returns after touchdowns,

I think we can say pretty safely. And then again, the only time you don't give that choice is the final three minutes of a game because that protects the on side kick. But the other possibility is looking at a version

of what the NFL just did, you know, the XFL model. I think that one is on the table as well, and whether they would make some tweaks do it or come up with their own the buzz I'm hearing read is and I think this is smart that the league is probably going to strike a committee and study this for a year, which would allow them to see what happens in the NFL. It allowed them to look at their own data a little closer, and I think it's just it's such a fundamental thing.

The CFL has been around Canadian football, and one form around another has been around for you know, over one hundred years, so there's not this. You know, we got to get this done before kickoff twenty twenty four, right, I mean, the game has survived for a long time. But I do believe that, you know, this is being driven by the same thing in the end that is driven by in the NFL. The rate of injuries on these plays is substantially higher. That costs roster churn. That's bad

for players, that's bad for owners who have to replace injured players. It's just one of those things that I think it was kind of naive to think that the NFL was going to go here, college football was going to go here. But in the CFL, we're fine. Like I said to somebody, it's like saying that, you know, if you smoke a cigarette in Buffalo, it's bad for you, but you can do it in Toronto. Like, it just doesn't make sense. And the physics are a little different

in the two games, but not that dramatically different. So I'm not surprised the CFL is is dealing with this issue. Well, it's it's the same irony where the the UFL now is using the and even and even more elongated

NFL kickoff. I say it's bizarre right that that the the alternative spring league football, we can call it. That is the inspiration for the most substantial change we've seen to the NFL game in I don't know in my lifetime, just in terms of, you know what, how often you're gonna see it, and the league that developed it isn't using it's kind of you know what. It reminds me. It is like, you know, you're gonna put a piece of furniture out to your curve and somebody comes over five minutes later

and like takes it away. It's I feel like the UFL kind of or the XFL put its kickoff out to the curve and the NFL came along in the dumped in a pickup truck and said, oh take that. It's it's funny And I know you're busy, man, but I did. We We had Darryl Johnston on that week before the week of the kickoff, and it was very interesting kind of hearing his thoughts on all of that. So you know, it's a little bit of egg in the face on that, but

certainly you know they're doing the best they can. Hey, look, I think that I think if everybody recognizes that one of the real opportunities that spring football brings about is to experiment with stuff, right, and people people forget and correct me if I'm wrong in this, because you're the the XFL expert. But I mean that camera shot you know above the kittle, Yeah, like we use that all the time, right, and the NFL uses it

ubiquitously, And that was an XFL in you know, invention. So I do think it's great to have leagues that you know, can can try stuff that maybe established leagues are a little afraid to try, you know. And by the way, on the XFL kickoff, I loved it the first time I saw it. You know, I was always surprised, especially with the you know, the grumbling in the NFL, that that didn't get more attention.

Obviously, it was getting a lot more attention behind the scenes that anybody knew, because you know, they didn't go from zero to one hundred on this in a month, right, They've obviously been looking at this for a long time. And you know, major rule changes often take like a tipping point, and I think for the NFL it was you know, eleven kickoffs in the Super Bowl that all sailed to the end zone. I mean,

like, what are we doing? Uh? In terms of moving on to some other CFL stuff, In terms of the Chad Kelly's of it all, has anyone thought of just deleting Twitter, maybe pulling back his film like this is this is all I've seen the last couple of weeks. What's going on with this? Yeah? I have reason to believe that that Chad Kelly has probably been advised too, you know, use discretion on social media, but he's obviously not not doing so to the degree that people would want him to.

I think this is a real tough story for a few reasons, including, you know, the presumption of anis which we have to maintain. And I know that a lot of people are looking at Chad's history of questionable decision making and saying, well, this lines up with you know, who he was before he came to Canada. And again, I think we got to try to be fair and objective and allow him the presumption of innocent as as innocence as we discussed this, but it's we it's it's strange because Chad Kelly

was a guy who the moment he came here. I think people were kind of I don't say, holding their breath, but keeping their fingers crossed. And that's not so much about him. I would just say the history of players who've been out of the NFL largely for behavioral reasons or character questions and come to Canada, usually those kinds of things follow them here. It tends not to get left at the border. And Chad Kelly for you know, two full seasons. I mean, what was the most controversial thing he did?

He went on radio last winter and said he'd love to play for the Saskatchewan rough Riders while he was still under contract to the Toronto arganized that would probably be, you know, the most controversial thing he did, right, And then you know there's the bad performance in the Eastern Final, and bad is a mild world. I mean, I've just I've never seen a player's playoff performance that was so unrecognizable from what he'd done consistently in the regular season

on any team at any level of my life. I just, you put that game up against everything else Jad Kelly did, It's unrecognizable. I think you just I think he just threw another interception right now. It was it was unreal, and not just the numbers of interceptions, but if he actually

watched the plays. They are textbook awful, right, And I'm not a break it down kind of guy, but even I can see that when you're looking one way of the field and you pivot and throw off your back foot on the other to the other side of the field, you know, off balance, you're probably gonna get picked anyway. Then you have you know, before he was named the league's MOP, he has the concussion story that he

was concussed and that's why he left the field afterwards without shaking hands. Well, I can tell you given the sensitivity of that issue, the league went through the tape play by play play by play to try to find any play where Chad Kelly might have been concussed. They did not find one. And and I think if you you know, look at his you know whereabouts in the days that followed that game, he wasn't necessarily those weren't the actions of

somebody who was dealing with a serious head injuries. So what I was saying, so I just say the league, and I believe he signed his h at the end of the season, and you have to sign your exit that you're healthy. He signed that. So that was kind of a lot of people in the league looked at that and went, wow, what's going on

there? And now you have the civil suit, which again we can't really comment on, but we can comment on his social media presence, and you know, like the video he made during the CFL combine where he went on and dropped a bunch of f bombs, and I would say, objectively, I would describe him as showing a complete lack of self awareness. I'm comfortable with that description of what he looked like on that video. I mean,

that's the face of your franchise, that's the mop of your league. Like that is behavior and conduct that is so out of touch with your role, you know, And that again, I think it just kind of raised questions about where his hat is at that he would think that that was appropriate or acceptable. And then since then you've had kind of cryptic tweets. You know,

that can be read a whole bunch of different ways. But again, for somebody who's facing potentially you know, a legal situation, or he is facing a legal situation and is also facing the court of public opinion, which in this case is you know a big one for him because a lot of again a lot of people are judging him and saying, this is the guy we heard about before he came to the CFL. Now we're seeing it. And every time he puts out one of those tweets, it kind of moves

people more in that direction. So I think I asked the CFL Players Association about it when I was at the combine. They said, Look, we don't proactively reach out and tell players what to do or not do. We're here to accept their requests for help or guidance or counseling or whatever they need. We're here for them, but we don't, you know, identify guys and go out out for them and say hey, what are you doing?

That would be more the role of his employer or the league. And I don't know that that's happened, but I would be surprised if there haven't been efforts to try to get them off social media. And I also wouldn't be surprised if he's ignored them. Yeah, because then and the last thing was obviously the Caitlin Clark hurt getting the contract coming out in him saying like, oh that's CFL money. I saw Nathan Wurk tweet out, you know,

kind of the league taking too long? Is this just time, and yeah, I don't quite get that, and I'm not gonna be I think the league's messaging on this one hasn't been great. Like it took what several days until the suit was filed, till they had a statement, Chad tweeted out a denial and then it got deleted, and you know, the argos haven't really said much and I don't know what they can say, but it feels like there should be a little more clarity about what's going on right now.

And I don't know if you can put him on and administrative as offseason right so, I don't know what putting him on a leave does, but even symbolically, that might show that you're a little more proactive that hey, until we can clear this matter up, we put Chad Kelly on a whatever suspended list, whatever it may be. It doesn't really affect anything because there's no off season for the CFL anyway, but it would least sort of clarify maybe

a little bit where where they stand. But beyond that, I don't I don't have a ton of criticism for the league, and particularly on the it's taking too long part here right Like the league has hired an independent investigation to be done on this, okay, which I think people would say is probably the right course, right. And look, I don't know if Chad Kelly is going to get favorable judgment because he's a starting quarterback and the highest paid

player in the league, in the MOP, I would hope not. But I can tell you he's getting a different process because we have seen other players who've been involved in situations, and the league by and large has acted very quickly without very long process, which is their right to do, I guess, unless they want, if they want, you know, they to the point that they could be sued by somebody if that person thought they were acting inappropriately. So, but we can clearly say that Chad Kelly is getting a

different process. He is getting a much more thorough process. And I don't have a problem with the league saying, hey, you know this is this is a guy who has tremendous importance to our franchise in our biggest city where we've been trying to gain traction. This is a guy who is tremendous important to our league. He's our reigning MOP. We're going to take our time and step back and let somebody else deliver us a report on this. I again, I, I mean, do we want the league to rush this?

I don't, you know, I don't necessarily feel that way. So that's what they're doing. I asked Randy and Brosie the commissioner about this at the combine, and he said, we're not going to act or comment until we get that report. And that seems like a legitimate position to me.

I guess the question is when's that report coming now? Because we're like a month away from training camp, less than a month away from the opening a training camp, and you know, you think that a decision has got to come down before or that that report and the league's decision based on that report has to come down before the start of training camp. So we're all kind of waiting to see where this is going to go. And I, you know, I would expect that, you know, this may be framed from

the league's perspective as kind of an HR issue. I mean, it's there's not a criminal accusation here, right, there's a there's a there's a civil suit, and the descriptions that are in that suit, you know, we'd sort of line up with inappropriate behavior in the workplace. Right. So, is that is that the framework that the league's or the argos are going to

use to do with this. I don't know, but I think I think it's just it's an issue that's been hanging over the whole off season, and it feels like Chad Kelly's been hanging over the whole off season when you go

back to the concussion stuff. So and and I just on a on a personal level, I'm I'm kind of sad just to see you know that when we did a feature on Chad Kelly a year ago and we were at Jim Kelly's house and Jim Kelly said, I would not be doing this if you'd called me two years ago, because I didn't really believe Chad had had matured and seen the light. And it was my producer, Matt Dunn who wrote the line in the feature. He said in there is no past, only

a future. That was the line that I thought was kind of the line of the piece, right, that Chad Kelly's able to come across the border and people aren't familiar with all the things about him from the past. They don't care. You've got a fresh slate man run with it. And for most of two years he did that, and so just on on a personal level for him, I'm sorry that, you know, he's kind of his behavior has become you know, a little worrisome. I particularly when you see

that video. I mean, that video is just you cannot do that as a starting quarterback in the Canadian football day. That cannot be your representation. And again I don't know what the argos of the league are going to do about it, but it's not certainly anything that would be considered acceptable. Rapid fire last one here, because I got to hop over Elk Sail everything what's

going on with that? And then we're trying to privatize and like I think we're I think we're about a week away maybe or within the next week from the sale of the Elks being slimmed down to a short list. And it

made me a long short list. I Mean. One of the things I think you always got to remember these situations is, you know, read you and I can put our hand out, form a partnership and sign a non disclosure agreement and get all the financials of the Elks and say we want to buy them, right, I mean, basically, if you knock at their door and look presentable, you're going to be given an opportunity to look at it. So you know, I reported the number was more than a dozen

individuals or groups had looked forward. And I think, you know, part of the part of my role in reporting that, I think from the Elks perspective is they kind of wanted everybody in Canada to know about this, right like they they understand that that tsn is is a platform that's widely read, particularly for CFL, and I think they weren't unhappy to have me reporting on that because they knew that anybody wasn't aware that the Elks were for sale.

Now might be it's a real fascinating sale. And I'll tell you first of all, and again somebody else told me who I trust, that the number was nine got up to nineteen. I don't know what it is now and I don't know what the short list will be. But you know, for a league that's been used to having fire sales or distress sales or hoping somebody comes to the rescue, this is not that. But here's the interesting thing. People ask, well, what's the franchise going to sell for? Well,

it's owned by a nonprofit. It's not even clear where the money would go if somebody paid ten million dollars, twenty million dollars, thirty million dollars for the Edmonston Elks. Paying it to the nonprofit makes no sense because there's

nowhere for it to go. It doesn't get divided among the board. So I think where the negotiation is going to come in here is how much are you willing to invest in the team in a new stadium, in the facilities, in the infrastructure, in you know, raising the team's profile and driving the season ticket base. That's going to be the negotiating point. I think. So you can see a situation where you know, the franchise fee is a dollar whatever, you know, it just disappears into into the ether.

But the money number that's going to matter is if somebody is willing to pay, you know, thirty million dollars for the Edmonntson Elks, twenty five million for the Edmundson Elks, you know, ninety nine percent of that is going to go to investing on the team, not into the pocket of the current owners. Because the current owners really don't have private pockets. So I think

it's a good opportunity for them to sort of set this right. And I asked the question of somebody, is there any chance that this doesn't happen like this stays as a community owned team like it has been for seventy five years, and I was told that the only scenario would be somebody who has a ton of money and really really wants to see the Edmonson Elk State community own and would donate that money to the board and say, here you go, keep running the team. Here's my thirty million. You know. On,

I don't think that's going to happen. No, I think we're going to see a private sale. Well there you go, Dave. Let's get you on again here. When we got more stable internet, but it held up today, we got the data everything else. I appreciate it. I yeah, sorry for the delay off the top, but as you know, always enjoyed Johnny Reed, thanks so much, awesome, thanks and yes, l it's almost June, that is not far away. Well, this is kind

of the man of the hour here for the DC Defenders a great season thus far and then certainly a killer game here over the weekend. Amcraid. How are you doing, sir? I'm good man. I appreciate you having me on. It's good. I know it's trying to get these remote stuff and with the training camp and hubs and everything. I appreciate it. You're back here again, obviously with the Guardians back in twenty twenty. What is it? What does it feel like being around here right now? You know,

it's exciting. I think I talked about it a little bit in the postgame interview with Jordan, is you know, the merger of the two leagues and to kind of I guess skip on a forward a little bit, but you know, the merger of the two leagues has been really exciting, really cool. We've been able to put a good product on the field that I think people are starting to enjoy. So that's been good man. It's been really really well ran and has been really exciting. So I've got nothing bad to

say so far. What's cool, too, is you know, you always you never really know going into these leagues, right, who's going to get spotlighted? Right? We had Camante turbin, excuse me Turbment back with USFL and all that special teams, especially kickers right now, insane between you and you know, Jack Bates and everybody else, Like, what is that? Is it? Just getting the opportunity. Is it just because it's like one

of the major storylines of the season. Yeah, I think there's I mean not just me and Jake, right, I mean everybody in the league.

I think I saw the stat at what we're like ninety two percent or something across the league so far through three weeks, and so I think for a lot of people, is it's that it's just limited opportunity in the National Football League, right, Like there's only one active roster kicker out of the thirty two teams, so you're, you know, on each team, so you're talking thirty two kickers in the world, and it's hard to get an opportunity.

You know. I've been in and out of the National Football League, you know for five years, off and on, from practice squad to active the COVID year and filling in for injured guys, and so really I've only had one genuine opportunity to say, Okay, I think this is my job, and that was when I was with Oakland. You know, Daniel Carlson got cut by Minnesota and then they moved on from me, and Daniel's been with them ever since. And so I think it's just proving that there's a

lot of really good kickers out there on the market. And I say a lot, I mean limited. Right, There's only eight guys in this league, so not very many. I mean i'd say maybe you know, fifteen twenty guys that deserve a shot to play in the National Football League. That just whether it's through injury or you know, guys are performing well in the NFL and so it's limited opportunity to get in. And so I think you're just seeing that right now, as there's really good talent out there and kickers

are proving that week in and week out. You guys have to get jazz up for each other, right, I mean, especially like coming off of your game and Jake and everything else like that. What is that like? And just see it? You know, these like records hetting kicks and you have you know, super like fifty yard plus. Uh yeah, this isn't This is nothing to kind of sneeze at. Yeah. We I think it's

always been that way for kickers. I don't think if there's a kicker out there that's wishing ill will on another kicker just to get an opportunity, like that's a bad thing coming. You know, it's that's some bad some bad mojo. But you know, Jake, Jake and I are kind of back and forth, you know, on social media. He commented on on Uh, I think a post that I was in after the game winning field goal

and and UH said, uh, you know, congrass or something. I was like, dude, how I comment back said, how are you going to cover me up? Right? How are you going to steal the spotlight with another sixty plus? And so we have good banter back and forth. But you know, I stay in contact with a lot of these kickers. You know, we all train together out Some of us train out in California together with Nick Novak. You know, we we see each other at combines,

his Honors combined. So it's a it's a tight knit group. And uh, I think we're all cheering for each other. Man. It's it's really good opportunity for us. Uh in turn of the kind of the game itself, this last one with the game when you quick really kind of spotlights right the UFL rules and we're able to do this big eleven point swing and all that. What is that like just from I don't know, a game strategy, game planning, and you because it's I mean, it really is.

You're you're really in all these games until the very end. Yeah, well it's it's funny like I learned my lesson just this week because you know, we were down. We were down a touchdown, and in a normal circumstance, you know, I would say, okay, I'm telling my long snapper and holder like, we're dead is what we call it, you know, hey, are we dead? We're done for the game. Like if we score, we're going for two, right or in this league, of course we're going to go for you know, two or three. And so

I looked. I went to coach Barlow and I said, we're dead, right. I think there was like two and a half minutes in the game and we were down by a touchdown and he said, yeah, you guys are dead. So I literally untied my shoes and I told I told h Paxson and Tray, I'm like, hey, guys, we're dead. You know, when we score, we're going to go for it. Well what happened was Arlington and A getting the ball and they kicked a field goal.

And now I'm looking at it and I'm like, okay, with the new role the fourth and twelve, like we could be back up potentially, So I tied my shoes back on, I got us all stretched back out and ready to go, and sure enough, we drive the whole field, we score a touchdown, and we're back in the game and need a field goal. So I think it's an adjustment for a lot of us because you know, the fourth and twelve it's more engaging for the fans. It's fun and

exciting, and it gives a team an opportunity to score points quickly. And we've seen that the last two weeks in a row. In terms of kind of the DC locker room, the vibe, kind of what is everything like there? And coach Barlow, I mean, I feel like even last year kind of runs a heavy like a like a tight ship or what is that like? What's it like being in the locker room there? You know,

Barlow is definitely a players coach. You know, I've had a few of those in the in the past, and that can really relate to the players. You know, he's very open to different ideas and strategies and things that we go with. He's got an open door policy. So that's really cool to see from him, is that he was a player once you know he gets it and so but you know, we're going on our second year of having a really good squad. You know, last year we were we had

a great team. You know, obviously we lost the championship game, but we're starting to build that culture and it's really cool to see us excel now. We've had really close games and I think we can we can play a lot better and and you know, our offense and defense have talked about that, like, hey, we need to put a better product on the field because we've proven to do that last year. And so, yeah, we're building that culture. We got a lot of the same guys back, we

got some new faces. But it's really cool to see that now in year two of the same team just starting to build some chemistry. Yeah, because it is it's a lot of carryover, but then between injuries or players you know, getting other opportunities things. I mean, it is, uh, you know, Jordan's there obviously kind of at the helm, but you know,

it's a different chemistry this year. Is that Do you feel like you guys are are getting into this now as we get into week four because it's so hard with like that limited you know, training camp, and we're trying to come in like you think you're finally hitting it, because even like last year, some of these teams, he's taking you to week seven, eight to really kind of get things going. Well. I mean, that's exactly what happened with us last year. You know, it took some time,

especially like defensively, to really start locking it down. And you know, Greg's been on him, you know, Coach Williams been on them like, hey, listen, you know we we've got to we've got to kind of finally wake up and say, listen, we are a solid defensive unit. Because Greg's a phenomenal defensive coach, like he is on those guys week in and week out. Well he's day Honestly, I'm witnessing it on the sideline watching it, and so he's very tough. But I think that's where you

know it's again, it takes time. Right, we don't have a full We had four weeks of training camp, but we don't have an off season to develop. We didn't have you know, the luxury of what some of these NFL guys have. Heck, we didn't even know if we were gonna have a league, right, and so when it came out that we had a league. You know, we had a little group chat of all of

us and staying in contact with each other. But yeah, I think it's gonna take time all through Week three but still to be able to get all pull off a win. And I said this the other the other day in an interview, is that no matter in what sport you're in professionally, And I say that because this league is professional ball. Because there's guys that are two, three, four, five year NFL vets and even a one year

out, Like, there is really good talent on these teams. And I think that's what we need to get a point across to fans and people looking to watch this league is like listen, like we're not We're not guys that haven't got haven't don't deserve opportunities, or we're not good enough to play in the football the National Football League. Like that's not the case at all. It's just limited opportunities. So we're able to put up a good product.

It's just gonna take time, you know, it just takes a couple of weeks to get our momentum and figure out what we you know, what we do and who we are and the episode that this is all going to be a part of. We're talking kind of XFL and USFL and markets and people, you know, what teams have on showing up and obviously DC and Saint Louis are really, you know, obviously the tent poles right for in terms of like fans coming out, what's it like playing there? What's it like?

No, I know you were in Arlington last week, but what's it like playing there and just haven't knowing that that team really is is the full support of you guys? Yeah, you know, I like the soccer stadium. I like the capacity of that. It's really a cool environment because we you know, especially towards the end of last season, I mean we packed that thing, you know, twelve fifteen thousand people, and so I really

like that aspect of it. You know, when I was playing with New York, you know, we played at MetLife and so we played at a massive stadium and we still had a really good crowd in New York before COVID hit. And I remember when we played at DC, like, okay,

this is a somewhat intimidating atmosphere. You know, I've played in big time college football games in NFL at one hundred thousand plus, and I said, in order to get that professional feel, you need that fan attendance, I think, and you know last year when we played in Saint Louis, you know they're packed that dome full and opening up new sections each week. So the fan support is crucial right into the success of this league. And I

think that's the point that we have to get across. Just like I said in your previous question, was that the product is there and the talent is there. It's guys that should be playing on Sunday and that have played on Sunday. But it's spring football. I mean, what else are we going to watch on TV as fans? Right? Like it's a it's a great product in a great atmosphere, and again I couldn't be any more excited with

it. I think it's been good so far. Yeah, we were at Autyfield for the kickoff back in twenty twenty, and then I went last year. I'm Seattle and so I went. When you guys took care of the Sea Dragons there to go on, I was removed for my own safety from the beer snake section because I had on my and they said that the security is and we got to re look at you guys. I'm just but you

know, but it's because it's like a hardcore familus. But it's it's all these spring football I'm like, nothing's this isn't like you're going to No one's attacking me here in the XFL game. But I but it's certainly a passionate fan base there, so it's exciting to see. Yeah, for sure, I mean we uh yeah the beer Steaks section. I think they opened up another section for our home game against the battle Hawks in a couple of weeks.

They're doing a promo I saw, which is kind of cool. They're doing sixteen dollars tickets or something in the hundred sections, so they're they're utilizing my number to to sell some tickets, which is cool, and try to make it affordable, you know, like bring the families out, bring the kids out on Saturday and Sundays and get to watch NFL caliber talent. Like what's any better than that? It's really cool. Last question here just speaking

of you know fans support. Right, you guys are going into Birmingham this weekend, going to be a big one there, one the right one, tremendous teams and obviously everyone's supporting that. Thoughts going into the weekend and what are you looking forward to? Yeah, so it's gonna be a huge game. I was gonna have a watch party at my restaurant back in Texas, but there's another kickoff same time, and it's a regional game, so we won't be able to have a watch party in Brownwood, Texas with it.

But I'm excited for the opportunity because we believe that we should have won that championship game, and so we see this as the XFL versus the USFL, you know, championship game, and so that's been our mentality this week as a team is like, you know, we've we've heard things about Burningham and that they're they're really solid football club, but we're we're eager to take it on and come come to their you know, uh, you know, their

home field. So uh again, I'm excited for this league. I'm happy for the opportunity and I'm grateful for the opportunity because it's a platform that not only me as a kicker, but other positions have that we need the game film in order if we want to go to the National Football League or continue playing this league, in this league, whatever it is, we need the game tape and so I'm I'm I'm thankful for those that made it happen in

short term because merging a league like this from you from XFL the USFL, I don't know how they pulled it off, but I'm glad they did. Yeah. No, as I was at San Antonio, I also don't know. I also expected you guys to win the championship game. So that was that was as much a flabber guy. But you know, I mean give Arlington their flowers. You got a little revenge last week, so that was good. I mean, I know it's not the same as getting the trophy,

but yeah, yeah, this game will be fun, man. I mean we, like I said, we've seen it as like the XFL versus USFL championship, you know we that's how we're kind of approaching it. And and uh, you know, take that mentality of how we've created the XFL in our hand against the USFL. It should be fun, should be fun for fans to watch. So if that's in your area, man, you know, the people that are listening to this, like it'll be one to tune into. Well, Matt I appreciate it taking the time. Dave Naylor

was running long. I appreciate you waiting a few this week. I'm like trying to get all this going, so super appreciate it. Good luck, even though you took the Sea Dragons out of the playoffs last year, it will be supporting, so good luck and have a great weekend. Yeah, I appreciate your support, man big Banks. To all of our guests today,

I always appreciate getting to catch up with Paul Reese, taking time from his with the website so he runs coming on talking about you know, good wide ranging conversation. Don't want to be too negative, Nancy, but you know, it's an interesting discussion here. I mean, did I think the at Fox, you know, maybe overestimated and we're giving away tickets and now we're trying to build this back up by that Paul probably vocalized it better assistinctly

than I ever could. But I thought that was a great discussion with Paul. I know Dave Naylor is a busy guy a week before the draft, so I appreciate him taking the time with everything. Always great at getting Dave on. I think it's been since the Great Cup, so it's been way too long since we've had Dave Naylor on the podcast and then Matt mccrane coming on. DC Defenders really appreciate that and him taking the time and them setting

that up with the league. Should be a good show next week. I know we have the NFL Draft, got a good a guest coming on that is very NFL Draft focused, but he is very anxious to talk about the UFL. So we will get him on working for a couple of different interviews with the league, and then we'll figure out some c FEL stuff as well. So, like I said, like and subscribe if you like all this stuff, give us a thirty five hundred subscribers and we'll see you guys next

time. Hope you have a great weekend. Take care