UFL Expansion/Relocation: Who’s on the Chopping Block?

Hey, guys, welcome to the marcass read here. Well, here we go, here we are. It is finally time to have an expansion episode. Word gets thrown around a lot here in the alternative football landscape. I think it's almost kind of become a crutch, you know, like we need to write about the UFL. We need to talk about the UFL like twelve

teams, you know, expansion coming in twenty twenty five. But I do think we're actually at a decent spot right now to kind of take a pause, take a deep dive here and to see, like what do we think relocation, expansion, anything else could look like in the UFL as we approach the presumed twenty twenty five season. We have a lot of data here in terms of TV ratings, attendance, we have trademark kind of updates happening the Dallas Stallions, anyone. But we have some stuff to actually look at today.

So I think it's good to have a kind of a deep dive. I'm into all this now, a little bit of speculation today, but it should be fun. If you enjoy the work that we are doing, please liken subscribe. Remember we get up to thirty five hundred subscribers, you get a chance to win two free tickets through the UFL Championship game. You can even sit with the Professor Andrew Murray himself if you want. If you don't,

if that's some maybe maybe that's holding people off. But like forty percent of the people that watch our videos aren't subscribed, which is weird to me because like even if five percent of the forty subscribe, then everybody would get a chance to win, So that would be cool. But a good episode today. If you want football talk, real grid, Iiron football Talk Andy

and I did that on Monday second half of the live stream. I made sure the kind of we did a deep preview in all the matchups this weekend, especially that last half because we were talking to tendance and all that. So if you want the real football mondays on that. We're doing speculations and a musings today on here. John Lewis of John Lewis Sports joining us.

John has a great YouTube channel. I figured he be down. I think we spend almost an hour talking about hypothetical situations for the UFL in twenty twenty five, and then CFL Talk with Dan Ralph of the Canadian Press Hall of Fame reporter. Really appreciate Dan taking the time and John as well. With Dan, we talk about de shun Lemon kind of his or is he retired, is he suspended? What's going on with the gambling with the Alouettes and

all that. We talked Chack Kelly and the argos, whether are they going to do without a quarterback moving forward? We also get Dan's thoughts on some of the other CFL teams in the West. I plan on doing a lot more kind of deep dive here is now. This has just been the last couple of weeks have just been crazy. So I want to get you know, the Dave Campbell's of the world and Tim Baines and you know, Steve Milton and kind of all that stuff, to do some CFL team previews or

you know, kickoff. Here is what June sixth. It's in like four weeks from today, I think, so we're certainly getting there. One note, Chad Kelly did release his statement today after Dan and I recorded, he is taking time away from the team during training camp. That's kind of what was dictated the suspension and all of that, but Chad did put that out. So if you want to read that. I know it's on I think his Twitter and the argos and all that push that out, So please like

and subscribe. Ho if you enjoy fun episode today, leave your comments. What do you think? What do you want to see with the UFL expansion here coming up potentially in twenty twenty five and we'll see at the end. Thanks. Well, here we are today, finally, this is the long

anticipated expansion episode we've been trying to hold on. This is such the like sugar rush. Okay, you know what, we have nothing to talk about, let's talk about expansion. But I think that this is a good spot here. We have John Lewis here today. John Lewis sports great YouTube channel as well and probably one of the only people that would do this. He died with me. But we have the report of Friday night UFL games potentially

next spring. There's been some recent trademark activity I related maybe to the Birmingham Stallions. So little things to talk about here, Andy and I kind of previewed the games for the weekend on the Monday recaps. If you want more football stuff, this is a little bit more evergreen speculation today, but talking you know, expansion, relocation, kind of who's on the chopping block here, John Lewis, How are you doing, sir? I'm doing good.

You know, we talked before the season about like, you know, what what is your optimism level? And I got to be honest, like it it's really higher now that we're getting closer to the postseason. So I think all's going good. We have some problems, but but there's been a lot of positivity too. I know it was I don't know what the deal was on the Monday Show, everyone like you guys hate the Stallions. I'm like,

we just heat praised at the Stallions for forty five minutes. But you know there is a question there, and that'll be one of the first cities we tackle here because you know, the protective stadium lease is going to be up. We've gone the three years there. We'll get into that first off. Just pour one out here, Ori ip the XFL twenty twenty Vipers. Sure I didn't see this because I'm like notified. If I don't know, I get these some time ago. I set up email notifications. So the

original v the Tampa Bay Vipers, and the Cobra face there. I don't think that relates to you. With you the Vegas Vipers. They don't want to do anything like that because that was a different view. But John, are you sad to see the rip twenty twenty Tampa Bay Vipers. Yeah, it's such a legacy they left behind and then becoming the Las Vegas Vipers.

I don't know that anyone is going to really miss that. Yeah, the twenty twenty Vipers with probably one of the worst color combinations that the XFL could have thought of. But yeah, but maybe maybe good riddit to that one. Yeah, it's interesting when you talk about like some of the attendances now and you know, I'll include some of the XFL franchises in there, but you know, you look back at like when the Guardians were drawn or what

the Vipers were drawing, even the Wildcats. I mean we like, you know, it puts it all in context here kind of all that stuff. So we have we had the report coming out the Friday night football games and potentially here next year. I know Mike Mitchell's talked about, Okay, adding teams. I'm at the point where going into if there is a twenty twenty five season, you need to either one or both of moving a team or adding teams just to have it feel like there's some sort of excitement and growth.

The USFL kind of tried to do that with the hub things going from year one to two. Are you have similar ELK, Do you think we can just roll eight out next year? Kind of where do you think, just generally about expansion and relocation. I think you could roll eight out. I think to your point, I think it is a better sign of success if you and you're fiscally responsible about it, to roll out at least two

more teams just to show that there's some kind of growth. I mean, and it's it's not just that you're passing along to your fan base or even to the casual fans who we talk a lot about that. I think this league really needs to continue to bring in. But I think it is something that adds to the product on the field, and I don't think it waters down anything. You know, there was a lot of talk about how consolidating

these two leagues together was going to make this extremely better play. I mean, we've got you know how many one and six teams right now, so it's not that that wasn't necessarily the case. So I don't think you're going to water anything down by adding two more teams and you know, one hundred more jobs out there, one hundred more players. Yeah, I mean the quality football is good, and I know Mike's been talking a lot about that.

We talk in our group chat kind of over the weekends. It doesn't feel like super teams though, it is weird, and I do kind of worry about that. Like you said, you know, you could add the too, Like I don't know, I mean, do you have to go to Skip Holtz and say you gotta let go back Corral, like we gotta have another quarterback here because you know, but you add these I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's been super teams this year. I think the

quality of play has been the best we've seen since probably twenty twenty. Where do you land on that? Yeah, no, I will say there with with the Renegades, that is a one in sixteam that doesn't feel like a one in sixteam if you watch them play the other you know one and six is unfortunately you know for Memphis, they in Houston. Those are two teams

that just don't look good on the field. But yeah, I mean I thought you know there was going to be for the season, I went on a fool's errand and try to like to predict, you know who the final records of these teams. You know, I still, you know, I didn't think that Birmingham and Saint Louis We're going to be the two teams that were right up there. But it did feel like this is a little bit

of bottom heavy league. Maybe it is, yeah, it is quite and now especially kind of why I do in the episode today, like some of this stuff is kind of locked away. We know the USFL staff. I

think the XFL will be pretty locked up here coming up. I know you can still play for home field, right if Michigan wins out, and you can kind of do that, But for the most part, I think that they're going to have that all So in terms of you know, I think you tend to be a little bit more optimistic when it comes to the USFL stuff. Have you What have you made of kind of the attendance woes. I think Arlington has kind of been a glarian spot as well on the XFL

side, But where do you land on that? And then we'll kind of roll that into what we should do with these cities. You said something before the Birmingham Saint Louis game that I completely agreed with. If you don't get sixteen thousand people in their protective stadium and AJ mcchern's coming to town with the

Saint Louis BattleHawks, then there might be a problem. And it was only fourteen thousand, So I think there are a lot of people in Birmingham that are diehards who expected a lot more and they're kind of disappointed that the rest of the community hasn't, you know, caught on. And that's too bad

because it's a very good team. They are fun to watch now. They're obviously fun to watch on television because when you start to look at the market rankings, you've got Birmingham up there, you have Saint Louis up there. Interesting enough, Louisville, Kentucky where I am. Maybe I'm helping the ratings somehow, but it's top ten. So these are all teams that are fund

Detroit's in there too. These are teams that are fun to watch. But as far as attendance goes, you know, I do, I ride kind of the fence on this because we understand that the financials are not necessarily based on ticket sales, but Also, when you're putting on a TV product, you know you can't you wouldn't go, you wouldn't watch a concert that there was nobody in the stands, so you would think like, well, this act is no good. So I think that there is a there's a dichotomy

there that we have to kind of come to grips with. And when I start to see fourteen thousand for the biggest game of the year, that make that take pause in that for sure. And I mean their TV radiance came out, it was carried the weekend. You know, it was the highest viewed one and it was on Fox. But you know, seven hundred and fifty thousand, a lot of people were saying, hey, that's going to be a million. You know, Saint Louis is a big market, and

it's it's no there's there's a weird especially with Birmingham. Saint Louis is in that too, some of these markets, but there's this weird like the team like you living there, like the city is part of It's kind of like the CFL, right, where like the people in Canada that really take pride in like we are Canadian, like this, it's like the Birmingham people. It's no, it's no disrespect on the city of Birmingham or the team or

how standing they're playing. It's purely you know, the number of people I didn't when you know, Seattle didn't show up. And I was the first one to admit that when Seattle didn't show up for the twenty twenty Sea It's like I didn't take personal injury that like, oh, they're criticizing the Seattle Crowley. It is what it is, right, and especially now you know you've been there three years. I think the Hub has warned people out there. I think that they have other stuff to do. I think you've lost

the novelty of it, except for the diehards. I'll always be surprised how the damage that that Hub did the first two seasons there, for the stallits and just I think just saturated and just burning people out. I think anyone that was going to go kind of went yep. I think you're right about that, you know, And it doesn't even have to be a good team or a bad team. I don't want to come. I'm very reluctant to compare the UFL to like minor league baseball. But when a lot of people

go to a minor league baseball game. They don't necessarily go for the team. They go for the experience, They go for the other things that might be happening, They go for the giveaways. And I think that was what is really lacking when I now, I really enjoyed my time in Birmingham in twenty twenty two when I went down there, because it was two games a day and the parking situation was great and all that, and I got you know, you sit around and drink some cold beers or whatever and watch a

couple of football games and it's very accessible. The only problem is there was almost nothing surrounding any of these games. It was kind of like that in Canton. There was nothing happening between you know, the Saturday game and the Sunday game. There was nothing really on site. So I think there's has to be a little bit more experience, and I do wonder if that's starting to hurt some of these teams. They go like, well, it doesn't

really matter about the product on the field. If you're a casual fan, we're just gonna go like, hey, let's spend a few hours and watch some football. But if you've got kids or even you know, you're just there. You want something else to do before and maybe after the game. And I don't know that a lot of these venues are providing that, and

they're not providing a lot of a lot of giveaways. Now they have recently giveaways including not just tickets, but you need to give away some merchandise and maybe that'll help boost it a little bit and that brings more people in and maybe more people watch the product on the field, and then they say, yeah, this is something that I want to I'm interested in and would come

back to. It's so funny and the last thing about this and I want to get into Like even my wife last night we were watching the Mariner's game on and we had been they're on the homestand and we had went Friday and then Sunday from Mother's Day. We were watching the game last night and it was colder here Monday night, like very sparse crowd. And even Dorothy walks downstairs and she's like, oh wow, like there's really not a lot of

people at the Mariner game tonight. I'm like, you know, this is someone that's like so it's it's these people, and you get I respect the Emory hunts of the world, like, well, who watches for the you know who looks for the stands and who watches like it's just a casual thing. You turn it on, like wow, people are invested in this, you know. You turn on the game on Sunday and we had forty two thousand people or whatever there you go, Wow, this is Look how beautiful

of this? Look at this say like it just adds to the whole ambiance, even if you're not watching the game for that, it just adds to it. I just it really took me back of that even where she's like wow, like that's that's remarkable. There's a lot of people there. It's a it's a TV it's a TV program, you know with the UFL, and that's part of the set. The people in the background, the fans, and they add something to it, as you said, an ambiance.

You hear cheering, you know, you hear booing when you don't hear that, and it's an empty stadium. That was always the knock on the UFL. On the USFL was a problem with these empty stadiums in these hubs. It was like it was not appealing for a lot of people to watch. Last thing here. I want to make sure any thoughts on this so because part of the we had this dense deadline Hollywood coming out talking about this, and I wish here I can pause that gift because that has given me a

headache. Adding the Friday night games, I think leads credence. In our conversation today about you know, adding two teams, Mike Mitchell had said it was very much going to be the two you know two teams, and Canton was very much in play or Ohio, what is your thought process the same here that it would really be hard to move, you know too of the games from Saturday or a game from Saturday like this would help add add.

I guess TV what shelf whatever for advertisers instead of add or with slots for them. Are you under the same feeling, Yeah, I think so, and that you know, Fox has really leaned into live sports programming over the past five plus years. You know again, you know, SmackDown was on

on Friday nights. They go into you know, college football and college basketball on Saturdays and Sundays, and it seems to me like this is another opportunity outside of college football or basketball, where you have a time where you can put on the UFL. Yeah, you're right with the cadence of if you didn't add a team or two teams, the cadence of one game on Friday night, then are you're only going to have one game on Sunday and two

games on Saturday or whatever. So to me, this feels like there is a lot of talk behind the scenes, which I'm sure there is, that we need to add at least two more teams to add that extra game, and that gives you know, some availability there for Fox to sell and make it a thing, you know, make it a Friday night thing. I think. You know, personally, I thought it'd be great to have either a Thursday night or a Monday night game, but you know, Friday night

makes sense for a lot of reasons. You could do a Friday night game and then maybe do two early games Saturday or Sunday, whatever you want to do with that. But you have that cadence of three straight days of the UFL and more opportunity for people to jump in. And yes, so to me, when I did see when I saw this from Deadline Hollywood, it seemed like, okay, unless they're really going to fundamentally only put you know,

change things and only put one game on a Saturday or Sunday. It feels like there have to be at least two more teams in play for twenty twenty five. Yeah, and you know, to me, it shows investment, right, it shows investment in Fox and we're giving the spot to that, you know, the college staff and everything they have. And I know we talked partly about this on the Monday, but just more more thoughts here as we sit later in the week. But like, you know, what

are these networks putting on this time of year? You know, I think that that's a good spot for that. It it keeps the whole Like Live Sports w deVie has really done a remarkable job over the last decade or so of marketing themselves more as a sports product, even though it is scripted and they're able to call it in you know, more advertising dollars for that, and I think keep that. And hey, if you like sports on Friday, even if it's not wrestling, here's something else, kind of action packed

and yeah, put some brandy behind it. CFL does a great job with that and a Friday night football in Canada. I know a lot of the CFL listeners on our show kind of wrote in about that and said, yeah, you know, we like that and this is kind of what we do. Any other thoughts on matter else, Let's get to kind of the eight. I think we'll go, you know, kind of rough shot through the eight cities we have, and then we can see if we want to do

any expansion as well. Any other thoughts before we move on. No, but you know, just to just kind of summing up, you know, we talked about how Fox is starting to lean in on live programming. I think a lot of networks will too. So if CBS and NBC start to get involved. I mean, you look at Fox's schedule right now. I think on you have like it's all either reality shows or game shows, and

that's what almost every network is doing. Very few scripted shows. And what are some of the things that are cheaper to produce than a scripted show. It's news and it's sports. And I think that's where Fox has really started to lean in and get away from some of the scripted shows and then move into this and then make that initial you know, extra investment in the UFL

and I think that is a good sign. I think we are definitely going to have a twenty twenty five season, and it really feels like there's going

to be at least ten teams in this league. Yeah, and also I think you know there and I know we're still kind of in the wake of the writers' strike, but like that was part of it, and now have the networks I used to, We're like, hey, let's focus more on like then we don't even need to worry about these you know, stupid union riders and all that, and not that I like, you know, but I think that that's what happens, right when you put yourself in a situation

of you know, we're going to go on a strike or we're going to do whatever. Okay, well that people find alternative sources or you know, ways to kind of do all that stuff. So a lot of talk and we I know, on the Monday as well, we had a lot of talk about the stallions here and everything else. The protective stadium lease has been good, right, successful with the hub and kind of all that stuff. Do you is that worth investing in continuing to invest in the Birmingham We have

a trademark here. I wanted to get to involved in the Stallions, but just overall thoughts is I think it's been worthwhile for the three years. Is it worthwhile to double down on that movie forward in Birmingham? I think so. I don't think you're throwing you know, good money after bad because it's

it has been an investment. You're still getting you know, fourteen, you know, to six sixteen thousand people, fourteen fifteen, sixteen thousand people, and I think by UFL standards, as we know, that's that's pretty good if you continue to build. And you know, I went into this season, I have a little different mindset than I did before the season started because it was such a clunky rollout and you know, you and I have talked about that a lot. You've talked about that with a lot of people.

It's a clunky rollout on a lot of different things. But the more I thought about it, and the more I've seen this season progress, you know, we know that they were trying to just get this out and trying to get this product on the field. It was almost like a you know, a proof of performance thing. Here, here's the concept here, this is what we're trying to do. And I think if you're getting fourteen thousand people on kind of a shaky roll out here in Birmingham. Yeah, I think

it's I think it's worth it now. I know we're going to talk about this, but I think there are some other places where they've got some big decisions to make, but I think, to me, it's worth it in Birmingham. So here, Mike Mitchell had sent this over as well, and he's like wow, because I was posting about the Vipers, like well, if you really want to make people go crazy, I'm like, well,

well maybe we'll talk about this. Wait to go by. But Dallas Stallions, so this was falling back in April twenty twenty three, okay, whatever, but they just filed an extension year of April. So you'll a little less than a month ago here to extend that out. Because here's my crazy idea, this is my crazy read read whatever tempoile hat here we'll talk Arlington.

Arlington's been lackluster. What if you keep if you keep an Arlington team, have it be the Dallas Stallions with the Stallions there and you still have the hub in Arlington. Oh, I hate everything about that. I hate everything about that. That is just I mean, that's up there with let's call the Houston Gamblers the Roughnecks and move them to Rice Stadium. I mean that's just I mean, that is just too much fumbling the wall there.

But you're keeping You're keeping the Hut presence in Arlington. You're keep I mean, it's the same team. You're just really so you you wouldn't touch the Stallions. About what do you make of this the Dallas Sayn's trademark. I I don't know, honestly, I don't know what to make of this unless this is something this was some kind of insurance policy that if they couldn't or Birmingham didn't want to come through, that they well they have this. I

don't understand that. This is well beyond my business comprehension, and this is very much above my sports comprehension, because I can't imagine why the USFL would want if you did move the Stallions, why would you would want to continue to call them the Stallions? It just you know, I know that I know that Eric Shanks in the USFL, and what they wanted to do was really play on this nostalgia and this has been a this was a personal project

for Eric Shanks of Fox. But you know what, if you're this seems like it would be personal to try to keep the Stallion brand alive. And I just think there's you know, Birmingham has always been the place, the home city, the capital of all kinds of football, which Scott Adamson had does a great job of, you know, covering and he wrote a great book about it. Because there's been every spring football team seems to have a has had a team in Birmingham. But this one, it's beyond me.

I don't This just seems like would be such a bad move on many many levels. So we know we have the mobile Stallion's trademark, and that was filed back when they were doing the Birmingham stuff, and I don't know if they were just worried about kind of and still could call it kind of be in the area or whatever, right because it's not that far right mobile to Birmingham now that I don't know. Oh come on, I mean I've been to Birmingham, but I haven't been a mobile. It looks like it said

that three hours, so three and a half hours. So yeah, But I remember when I was coming out there was all of that and okay, this is our we're keeping all that. But I don't know, it's interesting to me, this Dallas Stallion's thing. Yeah, you have a little little

placeholder there. And again it's cheap and it's easy to file trademarks and the trademark for the National Street Football League and all that stuff, and more expensive for me than it would be for you know, Fox and USFL here, which it is interesting that these are still under the USFL enterprises, right even though now it's supposedly this Fox Redbird kind of indenture endeavor there. But I don't know, I could just I guess. So they were reflecting on that

they're Arlington Renegades. I know that's the home of the XFL. You wouldn't know that by walking around chalk Tak Stadium. You wouldn't know that by talking with a lot of the Arlington Renegades maybe you know audience, walking around people on the street. You have to keep a presence there. What do you do just double down and hope for more? I mean, I don't think you can pull the Arlington Renegades unless you have a different thought. No,

I don't think you can. I mean, if you're going to continue to keep that model there, but to just change the name to the what good does that do? Like just to change the name of the Stallions or the Renegades. I mean they did go from Dallas Arlington whatever that means. But yeah, I don't don't get that one. Have you been surprised? I have been, and I know the team now is terrible. I'm going to be at the game here in a couple of weeks. I'm like, oh,

this will be a fun I bought this like monthly. This would be a fun game to go to. You the Vallahawks and the Renegades. But we'll be there. Uh. I mean, the team's terrible. It's really hard now. It's kind of like the Edmonton Elks in the CFL, where it's really hard to kind of market these team. It's hard to get people out to the games when the team stinks. But are you surprised with kind

of it? Just it feels like apathy for the Renegades. It just never feels even last year for the kickoff, it just uh, you know, I don't know, it just does. It doesn't feel like there's real fervor there. Yeah, I mean they've got you know, the Renegades have that. You know, they've got the die hard fans. I know how much you love to talk about the beer snake, but it it almost seems like the apathy is start. It's showing up on the field. It's just it's

they seem checked out and it and I don't understand why. I mean that, you know, you you had it seemed like there was a really good court. Now I understand Abram Smith, you know, got hurt for the year and all that, but uh, that should not make the team as bad as it is. And I don't know whe you know what happened last year, if it was, you know, they just you know, they got hot and continued to be hot and the schedule laid out for them.

But yeah, I mean, I you know, I've got friends around the DC area, and I don't think a lot of them, you know, even realize about you know, the defenders or what they are. I mean, And there are people, you know, I've run into this friends of mine. I worked in sports industry TV sports for thirty years. I got friends of mine in the sports industry who have been in it for as long as I was, or longer. And they still get the USFL and XFL

and UFL confused. And these are people who follow sports every day. So there's got to be a better marketing effort I think overall, but certainly in these communities to get people out. Yeah, it just seems like, you know, the DC, what was it, twelve thousand people they said showed up for that game, and hey, I don't know. So all right, so going through here in Birmingham, you said, you feel like it's

untouchable Arlington. You need to have a presence there. I don't know, if you get rid of Stoops here at the end of the year, can you kind of evamp in there is? But I'm worried. I'm worried about the Renegades kind of pure because yeah, if Prez ages out, just it's just been, like I said, I've said apathy before, but he just

feels like that. It just feels like they can't get if there, if the hub wasn't there, if they didn't have the deal with talk to I don't know if you would, if you would keep the Renegads there moving forward. Yeah, I mean I think that's a good point. I don't think I think Stoops might just walk himself out of there. I don't. I don't know that how interested he is and in this whole thing, especially the way the pay structure is going to be for coaches next year? Is it

going to be worth it to him? As far as Perez, you know, he maybe he ages out, but when you look at the stats man, he's you know, you can't blame any of this on Pere, on Louis Perez right now. So you know, I would I would hope that they would keep some kind of something there, especially if it's going to continue to be the hub, because it seems to it, it seems to make sense. I wouldn't say it's untouchable, though. I mean, I'm reluctant

to say Birmingham's untouchable, but I think they are. Uh you know, Arlington seems like that's a place that you you've got to continue to keep this thing going unless they have a better business plan right now. It's like firing a coach. It's like, you know, when you're talking about moving a team or moving a hub or whatever, you better have an upgrade. And

I just wonder if they have an upgrade in mind. I do think we're going to season big coaching changes here coming in going from the this season to next season. I think Stoops is I from from just my feeling, I would think Stoops is gone. I can't imagine way Phillips rides up this again if if the pay structure drops down. Uh back, we talked about that before I'm here. I mean, he's so tied into that brand and it's not even worth talking about, like relocating the Ballolehawks. But uh, him

him staying involved. What is your sense of that. It feels like he's pretty invested long term. But yay, there's always going to be lots more opportunities for someone like him now going through all this, just a side note here to kind of veer off. No, No, I think you're I think you're right. He is so connected with that Saint Louis brand and what

he has done for that community. But you do have to wonder, you know, when he when he has the success on the level that he has had, you know with Saint Louis, if an NFL team comes calling for you know, for not a position coach, but you know, for for maybe some kind of coordinator position or maybe even a front office that you would think that, you know, that's something that he would have to look at. I mean, I hope for the UFL's sake, I hope for Saint

Louis's sake. Things don't change there very much. You know. I don't know if a J. Mccaerron's going to come back, that could change a lot of things too, So but yes, I think there's gonna be some coaching changes. I can't imagine that, you know, Houston, they've got to make a change, So they're going to be a few going from So I think DC. We've touched on DC less less enthusiasm right now in the

stands or out of field. I know that Mike haven't paid attendance here for the weekend certainly looks less than that in the stands, but that feels like about as strong of a market as you can have right now, you know, building back all the way to twenty eighteen through twenty twenty. I know the play on the field hasn't been as great this year, and I think that's probably part of the any other thoughts on kind of DC because I want

to get to Houston. Yeah, I think in the there is a little maybe a little bit of apathy, and you know, it's starting to come down because the play is not great and there are a lot of there are you know, some very knowledgeable football fans in that market. But to me, you know, on the when you start comparatively speaking about as far as you know in fan engagement and fan attendance, I mean, it's still up there. So it just seems to me like that's something that they can build

on. And going back to my point, I feel like they were just trying to do a lot of different things and trying to get this league going. Maybe what they've learned in a year they can build it up and you know, maybe another step. I the defenders have been lucky that the Commanders, you know, the football team, the Redskins maybe on have not been great kind of through this whole because it's been a long I mean they really

lucked out right because I think we'll talk with Michigan. I think you've seen you know, the Lions now and my god, we're paying Jared Goff, you know Kings Ranzio, Hey good, you man, get your baby. But like you know, you're seeing some of these markets, even you know, Seattle and with the XL coming in and then we had the Kraken and the Sounders are more popular. You know, you kind of you lose that. There's certain times where obviously Saint Louis hit. That situation hasn't changed,

right, you know with the NFL. But I think DC has been really lucky that the commanders have not been great. Now, hey maybe Jane Daniels comes in and sets the world on fire and then hey, I'm going to watch this versus kind of the Defenders. But they've really been lucky thus far. That there. You know, Washington's kind of wallowed in the football market here the last four seasons, and you know a lot of the enthusiasm for

the Defenders was we hate Dan Snyder and now that's all out. But I'll be curious if that continues, if they're continued to retain any of that, or now if people are willing to go back to the NFL franchise. Yeah, I mean that that that's the dynamic in Saint Louis by far. That that's the reason they have thirty THI when I was at the game earlier this year against Memphis, you know, there was a guy there who was dressed like Stan Crockey. They were there were there's still you know, people holding

up signs about Stank Krockey who moved the Rams to LA. So there is that dynamic. I think You're exactly right. D C had gone down so far in the NFL. This team comes in and just starts setting it on fire in the regular season and you know, goes all the way to the you know, championship where they they know were they at the championship? I got to think DC Championship, Well, we had Arlington one d C. Yes against d C. Okay, yeah, when you turn fifty, these

things happen. So yeah, I have a lot of different but but yeah, you know, they they made such you know, had that weird loss against Orlando was their only loss, and then they you know, went to the chap went to the championship game. So so I think you're right about that. That that's why I say, I know there's there are so many thousands of factors at work, but it just seems to me like San Diego would be a great place because they've been jilted, they love football there.

Wouldn't that be a great place to put a West Coast team? Yeah, we'll and we'll we'll touch on it because that's Yeah, that's a deep conversation I want to have here with all that. Like I don't so talking Houston now. I'm just kind of trying to kind of roughly alphabetically through this.

I don't know what you do with Houston now. I think Houston's been so mismanaged in terms of just you know, the coaching, and then that screwed out the Brahmas as well, and obviously they're they're better because of it, but like, you know, the domino effects of trying to keep and playcate the USFL side with the Houston you know, Roughneck gamblers, whatever situation, however you want to refer to it, Like, I don't know how you

come back from that, is it. I've seen people complain about Rice Stadium and that's part of it too, But it's this whole mishmash. I mean, do you pull the plug on that? Do you they have other you know, they have other Texas trademarks here we'll kind of go through some of these, you know, the Austin Outlaws, the Austin Gamblers, the Austin renny. Like, I don't know what you what you do at this point to rectify the situation. I don't know that you can. I mean,

I really don't. That's one of the way that's been handled. What does the UFL do as a league to say, Okay, you know, we kind of fumbled this and this was messed up and we shouldn't have done this and shouldn't have done that. But how do you, like you said, how do you come back from that? I can't think of a good plan where you say, okay, well where Rice Stadium didn't work, so where are you gonna play now? They already had so many, you know,

problems trying to find a place to play in the first place. To me, I think if you pulled the plug on Houston, there would be a few heartbroken fans for sure, But I don't think overall that the entire league, or you know, the even the casual fans are going to say, what happened to the Houston Roughnecks slash Gambler. So I don't know that the value is there for this league, for this team in this league except for just the hub sense of it, right, And that's really the reason why

we have the three Texas teams to begin with. Like, yeah, I don't, I agree, I don't. I don't know what what value. I just it could have been tremendous value. I just don't know what what value it has. I think if any of the teams thus far. I think Houston at least has to be drawing sixty seven hundred people whatever there.

It's just not going to cut it. I mean, it's like it's just so sad because we have a lot of people in the the Phillips of the world that have been fans of the show forever and they sit there and like, you know, we love this brand, and but I get a lot of people that they're still that that are upset and it's it's weird because I really predicted this and everyone was like no, like nobody cares like they they're

they're fans. I'm like, no, Like you can't. You can't just put like you said, you can't just take the Birmingham Stallion as Hey, they're the Dallas Stallions. Now, aren't you going to still be a fan? Like it's the same, it's the same, you know, And I don't know, like back in the USFL in the eighties, like how how

that worked if you were fans. If I've never lived through having my team, I know, well, I guess we had the Sonics leave, right and now it's been long enough that if we had a new team here, people would embrace that but like certainly Sonics fans that felt scoring by the Sonics leaving Seattle fans, they weren't fans of the Oklahoma City Thunder like that that was that was the opposite of what you wanted to be. You hated the

Thunder because they were the ones that took your team. I don't think you gain, you know, the relocation of that. I don't think you gained. I don't think you retain the fans from your original city and then gain the fans that you're moving into. Yeah. I mean you'd have to go back and ask some of those fans who were who were Breakers fans back in the original USFL Well, they had like three different cities before the whole thing

collapsed. So yeah, I don't know that that followed. You know, apparently they thought that brand was good enough, and but I don't know that they those teams would follow, you know, those other teams. So, yeah, you're right, I don't there weren't many. Uh. I don't think there were too many Cleveland Browns fans that became Baltimore Ravens fans. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think there's a there's a weird and we have this all the time, like, oh, do we need

to go back to the here? Should you go back here? And part of all this conversation with all that, like I think Seattle's burned, Like I think some of these cities you do get burned. I mean, shoot, they're in San Antonio and we'll talk about them, but you still hear like San Antonio is burned in the city. The darn teams in the city right now, Like, well, we don't want to go because we're we're't too upset about stuff in the past, like they have a team, Like

I don't think. I think you lose, you know, you I guess before you don't retain. It's not you're not adding through really relocation. You're kind of slicing off and then moving on. But yeah, I think Houston, for sure, I should be on the shoppeople block. Anything else on that we can talk through. What would it be Memphis would be next? Yeah, I mean, you know Fox has put Fox themselves put a lot of money into into Liberty Bowl, so they might want to roll the dice

one more time with Memphis maybe. I mean, I think there's gonna have to be some retooling there. I was really pulling for John d. Filippo to do something with that team. But in case cook is, you know that they just seem like two of the best guys you know in the league. But I think with the with the monetary investment that Fox has put into the Liberty Bowl to do some different things there, that they did it a couple of years ago. Maybe they roll the dice on that, but they

have got to they got to figure that out. Yeah. I agree on the surface, Yeah, you could pull the plug and because you could say, well, they didn't provide any value either, but I think it might be a little bit more value for Fox. We'll see except for that, except for the FedEx guy that they say wants to buy the team there, And I mean, yes, right, I mean what are you buying?

Well, that's been my point along And this goes back to the attendance thing, and people get mad at me all the time because the gate doesn't matter, Like but but then, yeah, what what are you buying? Then you're buying partial ownership of some trademarks from back in the day, and you know, you get a ten percent stake emerged from you know, the UFL dot com. I mean, I don't know what being a franchise owner in this league, and maybe that's a deep dive for another day, Like I

don't even know what being a franchise owner would look like. Here, you still have to I mean I would imagine that Redbird and then from what I hear Fox then would still kind of have to, you know, sign off on everything. It's not you're running your own marketing plans and everything or running your own deals. Well, and hopefully that's been the talk for a while now behind the scenes, like what what do we do to make this happen?

That was always the USFL's plan. Well, you know that we're going to try to relocate those teams I think in five years or something like that. Well then there was the merger, so that probably reset the clock on that. So hopefully there's some talk and some you know, real talk behind the scenes of here's how we're here's how this league will improve next year, and here's why you should invest. So you know, maybe maybe there will

be you know, two or three that step up. There's always been this and and Mike's reported this, and I don't I don't question Mike, but I you know, I questioned that kind of the the people saying, you know, providing this information like always, well, all these USFL these were all set up long term because you know, we had ownership. We knew who we wanted in each and I remember back what was it with the Generals, and it was was it a Rod or someone that Jeter wasn't like Jeter

wanted to own part of the team or they wanted Jeter? Right, it seems like Jeter. I think it was. Yeah, I think it seems like it was. It was it was someone you know, it was a former Yankee of someone that was going to be involved to be a part owner of the Generals, right. But I but I just don't like this is you know, like we've talked about this before and here, but like the way we've got these cities now right now at eight is eighteen steps of telephone,

through the through the world, right you know. It was the like this is why we were going to do these and this is why the XFL, and then we had to do this. We had to do this, We had to do this, We had do this. Like I don't believe any of these save for supposedly this legendary Memphis the fat X guy. I don't think any of these do. But I can't imagine at this point he's even he's like, shoot, man, it's been three Like, yo,

we did the Hub, but we're doing this year. Like I think, especially when you're like you're looking at the standium every week and there's no surprise, like, oh well, actually there's all these people invest like you can see that. You can see the local investment on the field every week. I mean, it's it's not it's not high hidden, no, No, you're right, it's very public. You do have to wonder if this team

had been better, if there would have been a better turnout. I think that that might have been a market to me that if that had been a good team, that maybe you would have had a better turnout and it would look a lot better on television, you know, I don't know, and maybe and maybe it draw some investors. I have to think that everybody behind the scenes, you know, combined as the UFL have some kind of plan in place, because you know, if expansion did happen. Andy brought up

a good point. If expansion happened, this would be the first time it really happened in spring football for you know, in recent memory. And I remember I'm old enough to remember the original XFL. A month after the XFL started, it was like March of two thousand and one, they were visiting cities to talk about different they were these they were in open about it.

They were visiting cities to talk about the expansion of the original XFL. And they had gone to d C And Portland and I think Pittsburgh and some other places. So you always have to keep that in mind because you have to grow the product. And back to your original question when we first started, you it has to show some kind of and I think you've got to have at least two more teams. But but then you also have a few that you're gonna have to say, well, we got to do something with it,

either either either fundamentally change them or maybe move them somewhere else. But you're still going to have to add teams one way or another. I think you give too much credit like there's a plan, like, oh, they got they got this plan here. You might be right, you know, And I mean like I you know, we were used to working news and I remember all the time, and you know there's there's media bias one hundred percent, right, you watch CN now or Fox or kind of any of

this stuff. But you know, I remember back at like the local Fox level of people, Oh, like you you didn't go to this, like cause you guys are biased. It's like, no, maybe Sherry was just in the bathroom and missed the phone call and then we just totally missed the story, and like maybe there's no like you know, or it's like you know, people, you know, you read into a lot of this stuff, or like, oh, Read's covering or Reid didn't do this or repost

it. It's like maybe it's like I I was in the bathroom and saw this and thought it was funny and had to tie and deleted that. They're like, I don't know, Like there's not always some grand conspiracy here with all this stuff. You're right about that. Every time I hear about that, when you know, working on local TV as long as I did,

people would say, well, you, yeah, the same thing. Well you guys didn't cover this because you're biased against us or whatever, And I'd be like, if you think that there that we're organized enough to get a conspiracy together, let me let you sit in on a news meeting that happens at nine o'clock. In the morning where everyone starts talking in circles trying to figure out what they're going to do that day, much less trying to plan

out some vast conspiracy to not cover your events. So, yeah, you may be right, but I think that might be some cautious optimism on my part and maybe just wishful thinking that there is a plan behind the scenes. Uh, Memphis, to me, I like the brand, good, strong brand. I think they've done questionable stuff with some of the uniform and that people are kind of hired bad about that. Michigan the other one here with the Panthers, a lot of history there. You got the Ford Field,

you know, the people can they play. I think there's a college they were training that during the Hub and kind of all that stuff. Like I don't know what you do. It's both of these and like literally so every week when I posted things on like Sports Illustrator whatever, I got to tag all the cities and I'm trying to go through alphabetically, and I always forget the ms because it's like, hey, we got Arlington and Burmihead because to

me, they're both really forgettable. I know, Memphis is second in the USFL Conference right now, to me, all these really kind of boring games, boring teams. To me, Michigan is in the same point as Memphis. I doesn't feel like there's a strong outpouring of support there for Ford Field. No. I mean the numbers reflect that, and it's I think it was an average of seventy four hundred people or so when the four home games that they've had, and despite that, there's still three and one at home

and not having a home field advantage, and they're a good team. And I kept saying, like, I've heard so many excuses about I know that the ticket sales came late, you know, understand that. Then people saying, well, there were three straight home games and we could you know, Well, to me, that was three straight opportunities for someone to attend one game. There was just so many excuses on why that is not working there. But I think you hit on one of the big, big reasons.

It's not an excuse. It's because the Detroit Lions are very good and they're they're starting to really catch a fan base, and I don't know that the appetite is that big for another team in Detroit. That's why, you know, I did a YouTube video and caught some heat from some people and got some agreements from others about there is a problem in Michigan and it's with ford

Field. And there are a lot of people that said, we can keep the Michigan name, but you got to move this team somewhere else because you know, I what again, that's to me throwing good money after bad is if you are trying to get this lease on ford Field and you keep seeing the attendance drop, you know in what was it sixty five thousand seat stadium or whatever it is, it's getting out yea seventy four hundred people. It's just that this that doesn't make sense to me. And it's a good team.

Obviously they're going to the USFL championship game. The yeah, the conference whatever like to me. And and part of it too is the way that this all goes back to how this league handles its media relationships right, And we've seen that. I don't know if you've tracked all of this, like the Birmingham there's like this, like the controversy with the Birmingham stuff and all that, but like the the league, in my opinion, doesn't always do

the best right. Okay, we don't know how to work with the non traditional media, right, and thank god, and I this is no no personal complaints, but just like this is I've seen other podcasts and read other things, and like so we have a question about that. But then we're

also not sexy enough nor doing enough to attract the big name media. And I think you see this in Detroit, right if I if I'm a writer in Detroit, and I know, like the Bill Shaves of the World and Tony, uh, what's his face with the he's been on the show? Sorry this last name, Tony Tony Paul over there, like you know they came with the first game there, Oh, this is a novelty, let's

go check it out. Whatever, But like that wears off right, and like we're we have meal vouchers in Arlington for the media there, Like that doesn't help. I don't know how the Detroit you know, I don't have someone sitting in the Detroit press box every week to ask him about that. But like you so you don't want to deal with the non traditional media, but then the traditional media think you're too small time, right, Like I'm I'm not coming to season two, week seven of you know, the Michigan

Panthers. So then yeah, I don't know how you continue to grow in that market. Memphisis is a little bit better because it's not as big, right, Michigan's got a lot of other sports stuff going on, like you said with you with the Lions, and they've been having the draft stuff. I mean even though the draft was ever, I mean that was a month going into that was all that, hey, we're covering you know, this

is gonna be set up for this. We're doing that. Like, I don't that's an issue to me some of these markets where like we don't like what is the game plan in Michigan, Like, I don't know how you do build that out because you don't have anybody there thoroughly covering the league I think and into indling numbers that kind of traditional media are. I just don't

know who's covering that league there anymore. And read as you know, when you work in local television, which is you know, even even as local television is you know, it's not what it once was, but it's still you know, a big it's still a big avenue to get the word out and a lot of people still consume you know, local TV news. But when you start, you know, especially a market like Detroit, and especially in the environment that news is now, you don't have the manpower you used

to have. So if someone's gonna decide, well, are we gonna cover A or we can cover B, and B ends up being the Michigan Panthers and A ends up being something that is of more local interest or something bigger. They're gonna choose. They're always gonna choose A. And you know, I feel for the for some of the you know, I guess you know, sports information directors, some of the you know, the guys who are you know, behind the scenes of PR guys for these teams, because what's

the answer. It's like you're trying to appeal you know, to a to these you know, traditional media. But the problem is you got to wonder is it from on high or are these people sitting in their own fiefdoms of the of PR saying well, we're not going to deal with John and we're not going to deal with read because you know we we don't ever see their stuff. We're trying to, you know, get the attention of the local market. There's a happy medium in there somewhere. I just don't know what

it is yeah. I mean I just searched at Michigan Panthers. Here in news, I mean, you have a you have a Detroit News article from yesterday, a Detroit Free Press article from two days ago, and then there's like a million sporty news, sporty news, sporty like whatever this website is,

and then the Detroit Free Press article from a month ago. So it's not like, you know, and we tell you it's another conversation too about the offseason, like how this the UFL handle you know, during the week kind of stuff and getting information out there when it's not game day and how do we deal with off season and kind of getting the news out. But I certainly wouldn't say that there is a you know it overwhelming amount. I don't know, to me, Michigan if it wasn't such a nostalgic brand.

But I don't think you can. You can get tied up. And I mean to me that that's on the chopping block as well. I think it is just because of Ford Field, if nothing else. I mean, I don't know if there's another venue in Detroit that would work, or if you are going to have to move that team. But you're right, it's and

it's sad because you know they can they could pull it. But then again, the Pittsburgh Ballers, you know, they they they were successful team and then you know they got the plug pulled on them because but they weren't really in Pittsburgh or ever played there. But you know, there you have you have to weigh is it worth you know, what we're putting into it.

And I think when you start to look at Michigan, even though they're a good team, UFL has to say, like this is just not working, you know, as a whole last one here and then we'll do a little expansion. Tyme Ballahawks obviously untouchable with that. I mean, there's no point even having to about that. Uh. The problems are a tough one because the prom is having. You know, we're good in the AAF with the commanders and everything else. Have never really hit those marks. Uh, have

done respectable. I know the Easter weekend right the first game was like fourteen thousand, and they've gone down from that. But like that's about kind of you know what Birmingham drew. Uh, what are your thoughts because to me, Birmingham's kind of a kind of a bubble one. Uh, yeah,

I think it with you San Antonio. Yeah, I think if if there's a I don't know what the least agreement is there for them, So I don't know what you know, what they're pouring into U as far as their stadium, but I think you know, when you start to get you know, the numbers that they've gotten, Yeah, you know, a bubble team. I think that is a good way to put it. But again, if you're going to move them, you know, or you're going to do

are you going to move venues or whatever? You need an upgrade? And I don't know, you know what the answer really is for San Antonio there? Do they you know, do they especially if they want to continue to keep the Texas thing going? But yeah, didn't the I think the San Antonio Commanders average like nineteen or twenty thousand fans for the brief time that they were there, and I think they it feels to me like you're right, they were. That community was so burnt and it actually has a really good,

you know, alt football history. But I think they were so burnt that you know, even Wade Phillips might not be able to win them over here as it goes along. Yeah, so back this was Easter weekend, the first week in that Sunday game, you know, thirteen thousand for the sent for Easter Sunday, and you know, we had all the with the

brit And I understand the market sizes are different. I understand that San Antonio has more people than Birmingham, But like you know, we're just talking about and again it's not always apples to apples because I get all these cool how come we so hard on Birmingham and you're not so hard on it because Birmingham has been there for three years and they played like seventy games in the city and the people should know what that's going on there, like because even non

Birmingham, Like if you think about that, like you know, you had forty UFL games season one, and then you had another quarter of the games, uh, you know, and then what another How are you I can't remember the schedule break down how many Protector but you've had probably sixty five you USFL UFL games played at Protective Stadium over the last three years. Like, visibility is not an issue there is. It's fan interest in that product.

Yeah, and the Stallions are a known brand there with San Antonio. You know you sometimes in these markets too, as you know, working in you've worked in local television. You've got to have an advocate inside some of these stations. If it's if you unless you're Saint Louis, because you know that they've got really good relationship with the media there in Saint Louis, because Saint

Louis television and you know, newspaper, radio, whatever. Understand that people are interested in the Battle Hawks. That's not you know, there's there are small groups that are interested in all these all these cities, but not maybe overall. And I think that's what you really got to work on, is

the marketing and some of the media relationships. But yeah, I mean yeah, I mean it's you know, you could look at the attendance, you know, with these New York Guardians and it didn't you know, you're in the biggest city, but it didn't really work out. So they're yeah, you still you're looking at numbers of people who are coming to these games. It doesn't matter how big the community is, uh, just to you know, to make sure that I'm fair on all this, I I'll put I'll

cut San Antonio. I say they're on the chopping block. You've had two seasons there to figure it out. You're not up to the standards anymore. W Scott Bailey's of the world trying to advocate for you, but it's not working out. I put them on that. So what I got, I got. I'm cutting Houston, I'm cutting I'm cutting the whole. Yes, I think. I don't know. I think everything except Birmingham, I mean Birmingham Saint Louis Is. I really would. I I appreciated Todd Murco's interview

last week on here. Yeah, it was good. There really can't be To me, there can't be that many untouchables besides what's to call it Birmingham, Saint Louis and d C at the end of the day, I would absolutely, I'll totally agree with that. I think if you've got some bubble teams like San Antonio, I think you give them another year. Houston pulled the plug. You're not You're not losing anything there. There's there's sadly, there's just no value there. And you know, to me, with the

Panthers, that's got to be relocated or something. I don't think you can continue to trend the way they're trending and be and stay in there all right, So now let's talk real location here a little bit. We'll try to get this going along. I hope John Liss is like, how long am I am? I this? I'm pulling up here because I want to get it just a map of all this to kind of show because this is where let's see. Okay, Reddit, Reddit made this one. Okay, this

is good. So now what do we do with these teams? Because I think we need to get some West coast representation on this. It kills me and this I wanted to find the officual but this, this, this demonstrates clearly here where like when they show this map of like where are you cheering the UFL from? And it's you know, we're showing like the area here. So what what do we do here? I have some trademarks to the USFL has, right, We've got like the you know, like the Austin

Gamblers. We got a lot of Austin, we got the av Thea's got a lot of Baltimore. Steven here where do you want to see him go here? I mean I think you got to take advantage of Oakland somehow. I don't like I don't know how you how you do that, but to me, that would be a no brainer. Try to hop in there. The San Diego of it all, you got to get somewhere in California. I think you have to get somewhere in California, and you've got to get

somewhere in the northeast. I think some people have tried to push like, well, you've got d C. I don't really count. I mean, DC's not really that northeast. I think you have to get something up there, and and there's a and you have to have a West Coast president. You've got you've got the your Middle America there, you've got your all your Central Time people. But you've got to get somebody. I agree. Like, to me, San Diego is a no brainer. Now again, there's

so many things about trying to place a team in California. I think a lot of owners would tell you that that there are a lot of issues. But Oakland, you know, let's bring back the Invaders, let's go or San Diego, either one that makes sense. Portland would make sense to me. Uh, but if you're going to add two teams, I'm with you. I think you have to add a team in the northeast and a team out west somewhere in the Pacific time zone. Yeah, so you have the

Oakland Invaders here and not all. If you go through kind of the trademark listing in here, I kind of put I put a little bit more stock. We're the ones where they've registered multiple categories for these, right, So if you're looking at the Oakland and again this is easy to do, but just in terms of things that they've gone through the work to kind of do here, a lot a lot of work with Ohio, right, and Mike Mitchell was talking about that then that was going to be one of the teams

O Canton. I think I would just call it Ohio. I don't think you need to call it Canton. Oakland Invaders here, heavy marks on that. I've got the Oklahoma Outlaws here, a lot of heavy marks on that. Uh. And then you go down through the line here obviously we've got the Stars and the Malllers teams that are involved in that, you know, because yeah, this is kind this is when I was kind of losing track

to kind of going through time here. You're trying to get on that bucks like, I wonder all this is going on, But I don't know. To me, I go through the Tom murcos of it where and you said earlier with the Houston, like you know you move Houston. Yeah, are there going to be some upset fans. I think I think you need to prioritize being in in in a market. And I think if TV is important as it is, you know, no disrespect to Birmingham, not the biggest

TV market in the world, no respect to Memphis. Like I would almost stay in Michigan just because of you're in Michigan, like if if nothing else, like because it's a bigger market in terms of that, Like I know Houston's high up there as well, but like you said, dumping money in there, that would be where I would prioritize it. Thoughts on that, Yeah, no, I agree, it's I do. I do like the idea of Ohio and in the whole Canton area that I mean, I went

up there last summer. It was really fun. But yeah, I think there's if you if you have a team in the West and you've got a team in the Northeast, it just kind of feels like it balances every thing out and with you know, the in Ohio, I mean, it'll be another Midwest team. You know, I guess you know that could work. But yeah, you've got to color this map in some more. I mean this is uh, this looks like Mondale versus Reagan here back in the day.

This is find around So Arizona Outlaws, you've got we got a lot of Arizona on here. You know, a couple of different marks for that. Uh many many Austin. I don't I think if you can't make it American Houston, if you're gonna make it work in Austin, I don't know if the population and everything's there for that. Uh, the Baltimore is of it? You do you like the Baltimore Stars at the Stars? No,

I mean you've got d C there. It does that to me. It doesn't make sense to put to you a small two two teams that close together in such a small league. That does that to me, that doesn't make sense. Boston Breakers, there's your Northeast presence. I could see that just going through Canton on that here we got of Dallas Stallions. Uh, Denver is you bookmarkd this the Dallas Stallions the have of the UFL. Denver Gold always get a lot of you know, there was a camp Gold. I

think that was rumly as well. But that would I would be that that would qualify for me, even though that's not quite filling out the mouth as much as I would like anything. And I know the sports doesn't exist for a large swath of this, but like, uh, I would be okay with Denver. What would you make of that? And you know, Denver was a pretty popular team back in the original USFL. Now that you know

that was a long time ago when and lots of things have changed. I mean, the only concern is are you going to be playing, you know, in Denver in March or April? And that could you know, that

could be a little tough. We've seen you know, you get snow outs out there sometimes in baseball, so you that could be that could be a little tough, and it'd be but you know, I think you know, Denver could be in on it, especially if you know, if that if it could be another another city with a very bad NFL team that would maybe say let's try this gold stuff for a little bit. Oh your national tutors

and this one had to come up here. Well, I just around out the conversation and make sure we're touching all these, Like I said, you gotta get you gotta get out of this portion of the map. But you we gotta. It's hard, it's hard to feel like again, I've said this a million times, you would never pick this at these You would never settle a team on these, you know, a league in these markets under

any circumstances except the way that we are at right now. Well, but wouldn't you feel like Nashville might be a home for relocation rather than expansion. Yes, that would be fine. Yeah, but but but to me, it's flip floppy one. It's that's deck chairs on the Titanic. At that point you might make it might be right. I think you need to make

a move on that. And I think that's it. I was just trying to make sure we had any other and again you can, you can get a lot of these, but at least it just gives us a good jumping off point for all of that. So, uh, I don't know final thoughts rounding this out out here, I've been wiled me under into conversation. Anything else you want to touch on. I know we came in with a very structured idea of what we're going to talk about, but it tends to

happen. We talk about a lot of different things, which I enjoy. No, I'm just I'm continuing to stay optimistic. And like I said before, it was such a clunky rollout and there were so many red flags with this league the way it rolled out. But then the more I continue to think about it, and maybe I'm just getting soft, It's like, Okay, they've got it. It's it's working TV wise. Let's hope that there are. They're learning from their mistakes. They're starting to learn from what I

know you have heard a thousand times and I have too. You've got to do better local marketing. Let people know these things are happening and start giving away stuff. I mean, you know, come on, let's let's give away some things and get some people in. That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah, I've always said that they need to view I was like, oh, my dog said, I thought, there's another creature on my deck. You know they there needs to be I would say if I was involved in

the UFL, I would do a deep dive in the off season. How does the CFL conduct it's marketing a in the off season? Because they the CFL has an extended off season as well. I mean they really go dormant for a lot of it, and then how do they ramp up and how do they work with the communities. That's why I thought Todd was great last week because you're any you're selling, you're selling tickets for to me, and I know there's vast differences and like I had Sam Schwartzeen texting me like that

in a football is nothing like that. I'm like, it's it's worth selling football content here, like it's you know, you're trying to get butts in seed to the end of the day, you're trying to market a niche product. Like I think there's a lot but but yeah, if I was with the UFL, I would do a deep dive into some of these CFL franchises figure out how do you stay relevant in the off season, how do you market, how do you bring players? And I know the teams are doing

more. I get the pressure releases they're trying. It seems like they're not coming in just an hour before the game. They're trying to come in the day before the morning off and try to do some more stuff. But my fear is, you know, June seventeenth, or whatever. This shuts off and then we come back in December again, And that's kind of the big spirit because then I think you're rolling the same same plan out next year and it doesn't seem Mike it's gonna change. No, and that that that that's

not gonna work, that's not sustainable. Yeah, you've got to you gotta sell an experience too. I just I remember listening to a podcast of a guy who was the general manager of UH at the time of WUSA, which later became the NWSL roundabout. But he said, you know, you can say, yeah, these are the greatest. You know, this is the highest level of soccer, of women's soccer, and you know, no, but people don't care you can say it. You've got to sell an experience.

You have to give people an opportunity to come to the game, a reason to come to the game. Uh you know, whether it's you know, some pregame stuff, halftime stuff, postgame stuff, and then when they take in the product on the field, they say, oh, that's interesting too, that was fun. This was a whole fun experience. So I'm gonna come back and I hope that we see a little bit more of that. UH as we go along. I you know, in Saint Louis,

I was there. There was a little bit of pregame stuff. It wasn't as big as it was the year before were and there was really nothing happening after the game, but they're the games the thing. There was a lot of tailgating going on that was a lot of fun, and I'm gonna be interested. I'm I'm planning to hit down to Birmingham for the season finale, so I kind of want to see, like what, you know, is there a better experience than what I had before as far as outside the arena.

So it's gonna it'll be fun. Yeah, I've always said, and I got a lot of flak even going into the XFL last season from people with the league, and like I it's never been a question of like the football on the field and the and the minds behind the football product of it at all. And I mean even we want to pooh poo on Curtis Johnson and Bob Stoops and stuff like overall, and the quality football is I believe the highest quality of spring that we've had since you know, the USFL back

in the eighties, and like that that's not that's not the issue. It's never been the issue. It's kind of all of this other stuff. And I use my own as as a videographer like I am not at all like the best videographer in the world, right, like in terms of you know, vision or talent or whatever. But like I I do a really good job like wrapping what I do into a tangible thing that I think are pretty good at marketing it. I think are pretty visible about it. I think

the customer service aspect of it is pretty good. I mean, we we just got back from Vegas this huge conference that it wasn't even my client, it was what my you know whatever colleagues clients, and I'm like, there's nothing that we do. It's like a thousand other people could come do this, right, the quality of what like, But it's everything else that's involved

in that. And it's you know, you're responsive and we show up and you look professional and you you market and you're in these places like the quality of the football isn't the issue here, but that's also yeah, not people are not. That doesn't when you're flipping through your guide on the you know, Saturday morning, it doesn't say ufl like the best spring football that's ever

existed, Like you need to know everything else about it. It doesn't matter what's on the field that people aren't turning on the TV, which I wish they would bring back the United by Football or some kind of pregame show for these things to tell those stories. Because there's a thousand great stories in this league. Well I think yeah, I mean you can even do that through podcasting right now for free. But they what an idea? Read what a

great idea. Just make some guys available and we'll talk to them about their story. I've given them up. It's been so busy, but I've really just kind of give him up sending my money emails. So, John Lewis, if you want shorter, little more detail, shorter conversation, John Lewis's channel is probably the way to go. If you want long me entering,

rambling thoughts, this is probably the place to go, John. Anything else you're working on, no, just you know, I try to do that about it about a video a week or so, just try to talk about the league and some stories and things like that. So, but I appreciate you having me on. It's it's always fun to be on here. And yes, a lot of My videos are usually less than twenty minutes. Sometimes they're about five to ten, So it's fun to talk over an hour about

some UFL. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm about out the game. I'm just gonna start uploading the games to YouTube and just call it a day. I think I'm getting out of this, but I appreciate you guys comment, you know, anything you have any thoughts on this, anythink we've talked about. Like I said, you know, a little more vulation today, but always find wanted to touch on that. So I'll appreciate it. And thy we got some CFL content, hopefully finger scratched. You are coming up

after the break. Well, I haven't seen this great face since I think

our CFL Great Cup show in where the heck were we hammeled him back inhaml Dan Ralph Canadian Press here, Dan, how are you doing? It's almost June, It's can't and it can't come too soon? Thank you? Always great to catch up. Do you mean in terms of excitement for football or in terms of weather? In terms of both both, you know, I mean we can't complain about the winter we had. We had very little snow by southern Ontario. Proportions. But yeah, I can't want Summer's always summer

and full or my two favorite times a year. So bring it on. Let's go. Well, we're getting in and we'll talk, you know, the chat colls of it all here and everything else, Argos and I want

to talk maybe a little Edmonton, but this Sean Lemon thing. And then we were tracking that, you know, last week coming out and then the news that you know, he's a training camp and the cflp CA all that walk us through that because this took a lot of us here in the States side kind of by surprise, well us too, excuse me, only because he retired. Then came the league you know, discipline, and then they made it sound like it was pretty it was pretty emphatic, you know.

But then, as is the case with any suspension, the player can appeal and the the cflp A can can launch an appeal or a grievance on the player's behalf, and while that process is is going through to fruition, the player is allowed to resume practicing and ultimately playing with the team until an arbitrator renders his decisions. So I thought when they the whole thing was kind of

bizarre. I mean, you re signed with the Yellows after the Great Cup, then he hired, and then came the discipline, and then Tuesday, Tuesday morning, he was a practice. And so I think, like I said, where the PA is going to come from on this is he was suspended for allegedly betting on CFL games in twenty twenty one when he was with Calgary and on one occasion he also is allegedly to have wagered on games that

he was involved in. Sports bending didn't become legal in Ontario, and Ontario is the only province in Canada until twenty twenty two, and so I think where the PA is going to come from on this is, how can you have a policy in place in twenty twenty one when it wasn't legal to bet in Ontario, for example. So I don't know, we'll see where it goes. I guess I shouldn't be so prized that he came back because it was on again, off again. Now it's on again. But we'll see.

I mean, there doesn't seem to be any idea how long this could take. And so you know, he'll get into maybe an exhibition game or two, or maybe he'll start the season, We don't know. It just surprises me because, like you said, I would just you thought he was walking away, he was retiring here and you go out and with great coup kind of all that stuff. I just don't understand here. And now to

be embroiled in all of this. I know he's a player that's been in the league a long time, you know, because various players, you know, you might go to the CFL and then whatever, I'm walking away, But to someone to be in it so long and then, I mean,

does this mar his legacy? Now? We had Darryl Davis on a couple of weeks ago when it kind of first came out, and you know, he looked at it way less severe than maybe an Andrew Harris issue where you know, you're you're cheating on the game, you know, and all that. But just what does this do to kind of his legacy here? Because it just seems kind of messy right now. Yeah, it seems messy. I mean, I guess it all depends what the arbitrator decides, excuse me,

and what the arbitrator finds. If the arbitrator finds evidence that he did do this and adheres to the suspension, or gives it let's say nine games for arguments sake, then I think we can sort of say that it's a Turners to bit. But right now, I don't think it has done anything,

only because we don't really know exactly. I mean, there's allegations of what he did, but until the arbitrator does a deep dive and takes a look and we find out exactly what he did, you know, what's it's very very bizarre because sports betting and betting on your own game, I mean, there's a whole integrity issue. I mean, we went through this years and years and years ago with Pete Rose, right and and you know, decades later, Pete Rose is still not in the Baseball Hall of Fame because

of it. So, I mean, it's a serious matter. I get it, But it happened, you know, I don't know, Maybe we're naive here because it's it's not like there's allegations that he threw a game, or that he he he bet on his bet on himself, or or he somehow intentionally marred the integrity of the game. We don't know that. And and if the arbitrator comes through and says that the policy is not very strong and that mister Lemon did not do anything unto work, then I think he

should be allowed to play based on that. Now, depending on what the arbitrator finds. If the arbitrator finds something else more gammoning, then I guess we have to revisit the subject at that time, because yeah, it's less and there's a fire ambulance or something going by here. It's less. It's severe than the trying the raptors right where the guy was betting on games and the parlias and all that kind of stuff. And we'll get to the argos here. I mean, this is this a Sean Lemon issue? Is this

an Alouette's thing at all? Because I know the argos a got their own pr and kind of everything. But because obviously the Aulettes and they want to focus of this the off season now to be hey, we're running the back and kind of all all that stuff, Like is this affecting them kind of what's the media landscape of that? Or it is just just a Sean Lemon issue, you know what I'd be. I know yesterday it caused a bit

of a start training camp just because of the obvious. Right, you come there and you see number zero on the field and you go, wait another I thought it was suspended. Like I said, I can only speak for me. I would look at let's wait and see what the arbitraritor finds out and go from there. I like I said, I don't I don't partake in sports betting, so I'm probably very naive. And in terms of asking whether this is bigger or not, I mean I think it's a big deal.

I mean the integrity the game comes into play, definitely. But you know, like I said, someone much more succinct than I is going to take a deep dive into this and then hopefully those those findings come public and you know, the d when the arbitraitor renders his decision one way or the other, well we'll have a much clearer picture. Yeah. I I am emotionally invested in that and all the sports stuff. I couldn't imagine that any

of this stuff that may be more upset. We were gonna do this last week and then my work schedule and stuff, but now we got more with this Chad Kelly issue and everything, like catch us up to speed here, because it really sounds like a mass and just a lot of pr kind of nightmare for the Argos and Chad and everything else. Yeah, it is. There was a lot of fallout Thursday when you know, we showed up at

rookie camp. You were told that Mike Clemens was going to speak on the suspension two days prior of Chad, and you know for the tender based violence policy of violations, and so there there was I mean, by ourgo standard are very good contingent of media there. And I got there a couple hours early and during the workout and I wasn't even at the stadium ten seconds when another reporter said, can you believe it? Leave what? And I took

a look on the field and It's like, holy smokes. Really Now, I know, technically he was allowed to be on the field, and I know he wasn't participating in practice, he wasn't practicing, he was he was just on the field, But the pr ramifications of that just, I mean,

it just it was mind boggling. I just I don't know who thought that that would be a good idea for the Argos, for Chad Kelly and for the CFL in general, because I mean, we'll get into the reasons why, but the reasons why are very very serious and very very significant.

And to have him on the field as if well, I don't want to see nothing happen, but have him on the field, to me was was very very It was a peer nightmare, and it created the follow up that you would expect it to create, to the point where on Sunday when the open camp, they had said they made it clear that Chad Kelly was not going to be involved in team related activities and and to the best of my knowledge, that remains the case moving forward. I've seen now like he's going

to be transferred to the suspended list or there's kind of stuff. He was transferred this morning. But that's procedural too. I mean, anytime a player is not with the team for team activities, a matter of procedure is to put him on the suspended list. It's not I mean, if you look at it the first time, you might look and go, oh my gosh, the Argos have suspended Chad Kelly. Well not not really, They've They've

done a procedural moved to put him on the suspended list. I wanted to talk about this twofold from the football side as well, but just from kind of you know, the argos and we we've you know, chronicled this for a long time on the show, and I mean, you know, even longer than that, but you know, with the media there, with you know, getting foothold on all of this, and here we're finally we do the Great Cup two years ago and then we make it again and all this

stuff and like what is this? I mean, is this Do you think this will blow over? A season rolls on? Because obviously Child's going to be out for a while penning all of this stuff. But what does it do just kind of for them in the in the landscape there. It's a

really good question. I part of me wants to think that if he complies with conditions of the suspension and goes through all of this rehab or all of this education process that the league has put forth to him, and comes back and there and they feel that he's completed terms of the suspension, then I think the CFL will welcome him back and sorry, reinstate him. I think that's the better word. And then and then Toronto's got a decision to make

right and and that's the whole thing through this process. And that's what GM Mike Clements said last week. Even if if Chad is in his camp appeal the suspension and theoretically is able to come back to resume practicing and play, the Argos will reserve the right to decide at that time whether to bring him back or whether to you know, give their own secondary punishment or on this matter. So they've taken the attitude they're going to take a wait and see

and they're going to see how this plays out. And I think that's probably the way they're going to do it. And I'm, like I said, I'm with two minds. I you know, this is a very serious, serious situation for him, and can he come back? I guess kind of maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds it difficult to come back,

just because the severity of the situation. But then the other part of me saying, if he comes back and they're two and seven, one and eight, and he comes back and all of a sudden they win two three games, then I you know, maybe to some that they'll they'll put that in the back of their mind and think, Okay, you know, he's back playing good football, the team's winning, everything's all good. I'm not

so sure. I just think the severity of why we are where we are is pretty damning, and you know, the argos are really walking a pr tightrope here regarding how they handle this and what happens moving forward, and you

know, I guess we'll have to see. I I'm just like I said, I would have kind of liked to go to the rookie camp last week and just concentrate on my Clemmens and then understand, I just took it for granted that he was not going to be at rookie camp, and he was not going to be at a training camp until you know, and was not going to be with the team until he complied with conditions of the suspension bringing him back and telling us that, oh yeah, it doesn't violate conditions of

his discipline. I thought, WHOA, I'm not sure I would have done that. One last question about Chad, and I wanted to talk to the football side of it, because it's hard where someone's had kind of things in the past right where I don't know, if if you know, Jeremiah Mozzoli

for example, gets accused. I just think where there was, you know, history of kind of other behavior in the past where it's just more of a spotlight here on that where maybe you would like, I don't know if Chad's not getting the betefit of the doubt, and I don't really have a you know, side one way or another rise stand but in this hard where like you're someone that's had things in the past and now you have this and

now it's like, oh, we'll see, there you go. We were just waiting for him to screw up, and now we finally screwed up. It's kind of what it seems like, you know, and not that people were like wanting to see Chad fail, but it feels like, oh see, there you go. We knew all all that was going to happen. Yeah, it's funny though. I mean, I up until everything that happened in November and in the off season, I'll be honest with you, he

was. He really made me personally believe that he had turned a corner and that he had matured and that he had grasped the understanding that this was a new opportunity for him and it was an opportunity for him to continue playing football with a new team in a new city, in a new league, and to start fresh. And I mean in training camp when he was going through the process of being the starter. I remember asking him about his past and

what have you, and he's always owned up to it. And when we talked about, you know, whether there was vindication on his part because of his past, I mean, he was very adamant. He said, what, you didn't think I could do it? And I full in point blank, I said, you know what, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I told him I didn't. You know,

there was some trepidation there and he accepted that. He you know, he embraced it, and everything he did during this course of the season, he looked like he had embraced being the face of a franchise. Then this came right and and it's it's it's unfortunate because like I said, I mean, we're all very well aware of his past. It's he has he has made

questionable decisions in the past. But I just I mean, the guy is twenty nine, he was approaching thirty, and I just thought he embraced the fact that this was one last opportunity I played football that was close to home and all those things, and then he had embraced it. And unfortunately, you know, we are where we are and making pretty good money, you know. I mean that doesn't hurt either, But I mean now all of a sudden that that opportunity is hanging in the balance too. So so football

here. I mean the argu is right. They got Cameron Dukes up there, Ryan Scott, friend of the show, and you know he has kind of been you know, the way down the depth right there. But kind of what do they do? I mean, it's this season gone? Is that you know, nine game I mean half the season? I mean,

what do you think from a football standpoint? Well, I mean if you bring in right now, nobody's cut any veteran quarterbacks or they have you know, all the guys who have to see if a pedigree are still in camp

or have retired. So I think you're you're almost obligated to go with what you got because at least Dukes and and I'm having a brain cramp, right, thank you, at least they know the system, they know the coaches, they know you know, when when when Ryan Dinwiddie makes a call, these two guys at least can comprehend it immediately and know what to do. You bring in a new guy now and he's got to if there's a crash

course involved. CFL training camps are are are are very very short, a couple of weeks, and you don't give you a whole lot of time to cram. So I think they're going to stick with what they have and we'll see both those guys play in the exhibition season. And I mean Dukes made two starts last year and was the short yardage quarterback and and you know, and showed showed glimpses. Now we'll see, you know, can he be the bona fide starter. You know, the jury's out, but I mean,

and that's not a slight against him. That's just Chad started sixteen and eighteen games last year and and was you know, the outstanding player for a reason. So I mean, there's just a lot of talent there. You know, you would just like not like to waste kind of this opportunity right

now. It just feels you know, I mean, Chad's playing right this is their windows still and you know, and now you think you flip it like that, you would never think that we're not going to have our starting quarterback like that, you know, non injury related for half the season. I mean it's it's a pretty big blow there. How do you think, like, have you got a sense of how coach Dimwitti and everybody's handling it. I know Pinball did his media. I mean, have you guys gotten

into that sense yet? I have not had a chance to talk to Ryan, As I said to you, I'm going to go off tomorrow and we'll have my first opportunity to speak with Ryan on and off the record, just to see how he's doing and you know, what they're doing and how he's grasping it. But I mean, the guys had a pretty good run up to now. I mean three years at the on the on the job and they've finished first all three years and won a Great Cup in twenty twenty two,

So you know, he's obviously a very good coach. And I look at that offense. The offensive line is coming back intact. The receiving corps is maybe minus Curly Gittons junior who was traded to Edmonton, but Curly was hurt much atlast year too, so a lot of those guys are coming back. There's a lot of familiarity on offense. You know aj Will that's gone, but you know Kadeem carry is shown when healthy he can be a pretty good running back. And Daniel adib a boy boy. I'm proud of myself

for even pronouncing it. Has shown that he can he can step up and he probably may get a more increased role in twenty twenty four as well. So offensively, I think they're in decent shape. You just want your quarterback, you know, don't shoot us in the foot. Just basically what they had told Chad. You know, we take whatever's there and live to play

the next down. And I think Cameron Duke's and Brian's got thank you and Brian will have that analogy because they're young quarterbacks right and they probably don't have that same mentality that Chad does that I can. I can make this happen, whereas these guys are going to look and go, okay, it's there.

I can do it that way. Yeah, I'll just because aside note, I'll never forget Brian and winning the Spring League we had been the twenty twenty one championship during COVID they flew him into I think they had to do it in Orlando because everything got shut down, and having him call in from the hotel room the next day it was very exciting stuff back in early marcast War last things here like so, you know, the East, we got the Alweds here running back and everything and Toronto. Uh. In the West?

Am I wrong in thinking that Edmonton is the most interesting kind of the watch here? I don't understand the trade Ford not Okay, we're bringing him a cloud hand in a bucket of money. Do you agree with that or what do you think? In the West? Well, to me, the West is intrigue top to bottom. I mean, you've got you've got the Elks making the big pitch for McLoud. But it is only for this year, so let's keep that in mind. But also you mentioned tray Ford.

I kind of thought last year he earned the right to at least start the year as the starter. And he's in the last year of his rookie deals, so you know, the timing is interesting. But I mean, to me, there's no doubt that mccleoud's how do I say this nicely because I love Trey for it, but I think McLeod brings more experience, more veterans savvy, and a championship pedigree having won two of these and and and he's he's played a ton of football throughout his pro career. So I get it,

I understand it. I just my concern is is that you know, you've got what what sort of impact do you you make on Trey and his development by telling him this year that you know what, yeah, you're gonna watch. And I mean in talking to Trey this offseason, he says all the right things, but you know you can tell, just as the competitor in him that he's disappointed. But the other, the other intriguing thing to me is you got bcing the Gray Cup this year. There's a big push

for them to get to the game. You've got you know, the Calgary Stampeders, they had their first losing season in a while last year. They're in the playoffs last year for the eighteenth straight year. Can they keep it going? And there's a lot of questions about Jake Meyer and in his time there, And Matt Schultz is the backup in Calgary, and you know he

played well when given the opportunity in Hamilton last year too. And Saskatchewan has Trevor Harris back, healthy, new head coach's and a bunch of new faces in free agency. And then you've got Winnipeg being Winnipeg going after a fifth straight Gray Cup. So to me, there's a lot of intrigue in the West. And but yeah, I my interest is in Edmonton to see what happens because they haven't made the playoffs since two nineteen and they've only won something

like eleven games since then. So and Chris Jones, I got to believe as the coach, GM is under the microscope this year. This is year three and they've been four and fourteen in each of the last two. So it's time to fish a cup bait. Yeah, there's got to be some sort of just you know, saw or was it oil and vinegar or oil

and water between Trey Ford and Chris Jones. There's just got to be because when he plays and you see it on the field, and I don't understand why you don't, do you know what the trade Ford thing, like BC did with the Nathan Rourke when they had him for cheap and let's bring in It's like, well, no, now we're gonna pay McCloud about a lot of money and then we got to like, you know, take advantage while you can. I mean BC was incredible that year. I mean a work

was awesome. But we could, you know, sign every single person we wanted around him because we were paying them, you know, a nickel on the half, right, Yeah, exactly to me. I think Trey showed last year he can be a good, very good quarterback. Maybe you could have made some investments on the defensive side to give him some support, or maybe brought in another receiver. I mean, they do have you know, Eugene Lewis as a as the top receiver, so I mean there's no there's

no doubt there. And they have you know Brown as the as the running backs. So yeah, it's interesting. I guess you know, the CFL is a quarterback driven league. However, so you know, if if basically you're telling McLeod, you know, we're expecting you to stay on the field and put points on the board and and keep our defense fresh and keep them

keep them off the field. So maybe it's you know, And but I will say this to read that Chris Jones has won a lot more Gray Cups than I ever have, so I'm I'll defer to him, but if it doesn't work, I'll be the first to tell them. Well, you know, but yeah, I mean, but you get that with like the Bill Belichick's here where you know, I mean, you can have success for a long time. I just if I'm trade four and I demand, you know, a trade of the Argonauts or something. I mean, you know what

I tell you. I think he would look really he would have looked good in my mind in Hamilton, because he's from nearby Niagara Falls. You know, they've they've got their quarterback of the future in Taylor Powell, who showed a lot to me last year as a rookie starting nine games. So I get that. But you know what, he would look good from anywhere in southern Ontario. That's for darn sure. You're right. Last question then, so because I bow right showing up in the boot, they say, it's

fine. You really are high on Taylor Powell there. I mean, what do you make of that? Well, I was there on Monday when bow took to the field. He participated, he was in pads. He participated in thirty or forty plays. Granted they were you know, Skelly, you know, six receivers against seven defensive players. And he didn't run, but

he threw the ball well. He made some very nice passes and afterwards declared himself fit and ready and that he's no doubt in his mind that he's going to play in the season opener in Calgary, which is a homecoming for him, you know, given that he started his career with the Stamps. So but I don't think it was in It was a coincidence that on Sunday they signed Powell to an extension, keeping him under contract till twenty twenty five.

So you know what you can't have I mean this, they'll tell you anything in the CFL that can't have more. You got to have more than one quarterback to make a run of it. And but yeah, those those they're pretty solid there with those two in my mind. But as far as Bo, we'll see, right, We've got two weeks to see how much he plays in the exhibition games and see how he feels. There were a couple of times he walked to the line, or he walked to the take take

the snap. He looked like he was a little ginger with his right leg. But we'll see. Well, Dan, I really appreciate making the time today, taking time good luck tomorrow at training camp and all that stuff, and hopefully we'll get you back on here and we're I'm getting my my rolodex here working there trying to remember what you who's on what team and everything. We're getting back into it. It's been ufl here and now we're getting back

in so I appreciate it my pleasure. Thank you so much, huge spreccer.

Thanks to Dan and John I'm Lewis for coming on today. Really appreciate that. Like I said, Dan working with my crazy work schedule in him and covering the Argos training and the Tiger Cats and kind of all that stuff. Dan's incredibly busy. You always just a huge wealth of knowledge, a Hall of Fame reporter like he is coming on the show. And then John Lewis is always go check out John's channel, you know, like I said during the interview, not why it is you know, this extensive hour line

discussion. John does a little bit more bite size, and so I think that it's, you know, both sides of the coin. I think it's all good like it. Subscribe if you enjoy all this and give us to thirty five hundred subscribers. I hope this wasn't to not footballing today, but I thought it was fun. We'll see you next time. Next