Well here we are back here and Mike adjusting this camera. That's good. Looks great, sounds great. UFL twenty twenty four Season one is in the books. We're gonna kind of recap that. I know Mike wants to talk about the title game, but let him talk football. We're gonna talk kind of, you know, how did the season perform and live up to expectations?
And then we do actually have a lot of plans confirmed, seemingly for Mouse Johnston, which you know I was parading I kind of networking with at the bar there in Saint Louis. That was fun, so lots to talk about that. Lots of instel both on the podcast and off with that. But we have UFL insider Mike Mitchell here. Mike, how are you doing. I'm doing well. Read Thank you as always for having me on.
It'll be good. Yeah. We try to do these, you know, mid season and then posts after the XFL last year we did, and then the USFL and the mid season so I can subscribe. Working on a new giveaway, was talking about doing some season tickets. Not sure if that will work out anymore, but we will figure out a giveaway so I get subscribe. Support the channel, get us up to four thousand subscribers. We have Jason Hussein and I are doing CFL content every Monday. Now. This will
be the episode today and then we'll start doing CFL guests. So hopefully here if we get the podcast going again following this week, Mike, the season's done, Stallions, we'll talk the game. I don't want to do too much because I want this to be a little evergreen, but obviously we'll get your thoughts on that. This was really not a great game. Yeah, unfortunately for san Antonio. Yeah, sometimes in the bills for Yeah, for
Birmingham, it was tremendous. Yeah, anytime you get to see if you're a Birmingham supporter, fan, believer, advocate, et cetera, is tremendous. You get to see them, you know, during the postseason. This is how good they are. You know, they always step up to the occasion. So kudos to them, Skip holt Zachary Potter, that whole team. They're going to have a bunch of players signed on with the NFL. Same thing as last year. Whatever it was. There was like eighteen or
nineteen different guys, So kudos to Birmingham. I don't want to take anything away from them. But for san Antonio, We've seen this in sports. Sometimes teams get to a championship game and they lay an egg and the most unfortunate side of it to me, and I've been pretty harsh on him, but I'm sorry Chase Garber's I thought his performance was dreadful. I know, you look at the stats and you go, hey, it wasn't too bad,
high completion percentage, etc. But he played scared. Now, in his defense, he came back from a pretty serious injury, which is cool, and so he hurt and then he had a wrist injury. So there was like some iffness about whether or not he would play in the XFL Conference championship game. He eventually did, right, So okay, right, he's trying to protect himself. And a lot of times coaches will tell their quarterbacks
learn how to slide, learn how to slide. Okay, fine, but in the championship game, when your team is struggling to convert on offense, you got to put yourself on the line. So if he's protecting himself for an NFL contract, And I think I said this online if I as an NFL team and I watched that game. I don't want that guy on my
team. So anybody who's selfish, not looking out for the team, not putting it all out, because how many opportunities is Chase Garber is gonna get it to be a starting quarterback anywhere and have an opportunity to win a championship. So that might be his last time he's ever playing in a championship game at any level anywhere. So maybe he'll be like a third stringer or whatever somewhere by accident like in Canada, so and end up getting a ring or
something like that. But but that so that was and you know, just to pull back the curtain, like, there's a lot of stuff that we share with each other in our infamous chat behind the scenes that I can't really share publicly. So I thank you and all the guys. We've got some you know, some interesting guys incognito in our chats who actually pay attention to what we're I'm assuming what we share. But there were certain things I said
about Garber's that I can't say publicly. What do you say at your show? But you know he was pussy footing around during that game, I'll say that much. And that was like a disappointing element. I talked to people on the Brahmas staff. They were very disappointed. There's some people on that team that were disappointed with their quarterback. We saw wide receiver Katie Cannon being pretty vocal about his usage and how he didn't want to be a part of
that team anymore. That tells you something right there. I'm not saying that Katie Cannon's in the right for making that making those comments on social media, but you know, there was a lot of infighting there. Seemed like the team was gonna explode during the game. So it was an ugly and for what was otherwise a tremendous season for the Bramas. Mark lily Bridge did a tremendous job with that roster. We just saw Cole Lavau signed with the New
York Jets. Awsome signing by the Jets. Great for Colavau, coming from indoor football into spring pro football and now getting an opportunity in the NFL. You know, Wade Phillips can't say enough great things about him. What a true legend. It wasn't a shining moment. I'm friendly with him and I respect him, but it wasn't a shining moment for aj Smith, But it's kind of a little bit, a little bit hard when your quarterback plays like
that. They could have made a switch. They just decided to dink and dunk. They didn't take any chances. I think them relying on what they did the first time against Birmingham where they only scored nineteen points against Birmingham at home where they beat in nineteen to nine. That the only loss, only blemish on Birmingham's record is against San Antonio. In that game, the promise it wasn't like they lit up the world. They only scored nineteen points.
They had one of their touchdowns was on a wide receiver touchdown pass. So it wasn't like, let's rely on what we did prior to them. You know, you didn't light up the world. Their defense hung on for as long as they could. Skip Holtz made tremendous adjustments and they you know,
you talked about this and Andy Murray did a tremendous job. You guys recap in the game, but I think like removing the football aspect of it, and what's interesting here is what happens next with the coaches, Wade Phillips, Skipholtz. They love to be a part this league, but we don't know for sure if they will be back. Their contracts expire at the end of
the month. We'll see what happens. Yeah, so would that be in terms of that And also the question of like the Aj Smith of it, because a lot of people thought, well, like if he goes away, does AJ move up or does he go to a different team to get an opportunity? Do you think that changes that for Aj? And then yet, what is the status kind of on the coaches right now? I know that
you obviously with the Hines Warreth of it all and Wade move it. But as far as you know kind of what is it, what status are react with the eight coaches? You know, like I said, their contracts expire at the end of the month. So it's just a matter. I know the guys like Anthony Beck, I've been in contact with coaches Anthony Beck, Bob Stoops, even Wade Phillips, all these guys, Skip Holtz, they would love to still be coaching in the league as far as ag Smith goes,
if by chance some of these veteran coaches don't come back. Whatever it is with Stoops, I think a lot of it has to do with the timeline how it fits his life. If they go back to the week after the Super Bowl, which that's still in talks, we'll get into that. But if they go back to that period, I think Stoops will want to come back. If they move more towards like a mid April, late April
to July kind of thing, I don't think Stoops is in. One thing Stoops did that was great, which a lot of coaches did that was great. They selflessly agreed to the new contract terms, the seasonal contract terms, in order to protect their assistance. That's something hines Ward did not do. And a lot of those Brahmas assistant coaches ended up out of the league. The Darius Bells, those guys, unfortunately, they ended up without a job. They thought for sure they were going to be part of this league.
So guys like Stoops, Anthony Beck, they made sure to protect their assistants so they kept their jobs. So what you would like to see in these leagues, You know, it's awesome if they go out, like say a John Gruden or somebody decides to come in and coach or something. That'd be kind of cool, right for the cachet of it. It's kind of fun, right, But it would be awesome to see some of these assistant coaches
if by chance, some of these veterans leave. Be nice to see that progression of guys who have already been in Spring pro Leagues that you know, have kind of earned their they've been waiting in line. So like an aj Smith, even though he was on the sidelines this year and he's well loved in the community, Jaron Horton, would be nice to see him get an opportunity as a head coach. He did such a phenomenal job with the Mahler's
Defense, So you'd like to see guys like that. So it would be cool if the Spring pro Leagues not only like elevate the players to get NFL opportunities, but actually elevate these assistants to be head coaches on these teams.
Sometimes if you get an outsider like a Jeff Fisher or somebody with like name recognition, you don't know where their heart is at, whether they're going to treat the job like a vacation, come to practice with flip flops and let one of the assistants run the practices, you know, that kind of deal. So you know these young, hungry assistants on these staffs would love that opportunity. So if by chance, let's hope Wade Phillips comes back. He's
a It's great having him part of the league, right. His energy's tremendous, the legacy that he carries with him, son of bum. Let's hope he comes back. But if he doesn't, if for whatever reason, the money isn't right and he doesn't like to set up and the league wants to go, I hate to put it this way, the cheaper route, maybe AJ Smith will get a chance to be a head coach. I don't want to say it just because he's affordable, but it would be nice to see
young coach like that get an opportunity to lead and sink or swim. You know, Anthony Beck had never been a head coach before, and I know some people are critical of his performance, but he's actually he's done a pretty good job from a leadership standpoint. You know, maybe sometimes you can go quick about the x's and o's and decision making. The ended in an XFO
Conference game wasn't the greatest moment for him. I think they should have cut it down a one score lead and attempted for the twelve for some reason, they're hanging on still trying to get in the ends on what seconds left anyhow, But somebody thinks stay with me, you know so and I'm a huge Anthony Beck fan. So it's the way it goes. You wonder from the championship game whether or not if AJ mccaron was healthy, whether or not the
promise would have gotten to that point. But san Antonio. Nevertheless, san Antonio did a tremendous job this season. So you'd like to see Wade Phillips back. If he's not, maybe we'll read the defensive coordinator or ag Smith gets that show. In terms of the contract difference is here, right, because we've talked about that, and Andy and I have been asked kind of
on the Monday recaps all season. You know, well Stoop's back, as we whoever back, And I know you were talking about the scheduling with Seops, but to me, uh, you know, and we had Rick on mid season talking about the coach rates as well getting paid and maybe they you know, some of them are getting overpaid or whatever. I'm just curious that if that money comes into it too, if you know, if Stoops is your guy for whatever he's getting paid now, And if I'm getting paid a
third of that, maybe I'm not your guy anymore. Right. You had a guest on this season on your on your podcast, you have so many great guests on that talked about how the coaches were making too much money. I'm trying to remember which I think it was Rick. I'm pretty sure Rick, Yes, yes, yes, And so Stoops is. You know,
it's no secret and Stoops has a pretty decent contract. When the XFI went bankrupt, you know, because of COVID and all that kind of stuff, it kind of became public knowledge of how much he was making, how much did we go to make, cetera, et cetera. Money is definitely a factor read So what are these guys going to be even if they are seasonal for just a few months, what are they going to be paid? You
know, they're not going to come in and work for peanuts. So, and you know, the talk was that Stoops is making upwards of over six hundred thousand dollars maybe seven point fifty, so he was the highest paid coach in the league. He's not going to be getting that anymore. So, Hindesward was getting paid a pretty penny before he decided to walk away. What's any drop off just as far as you know what's to drop off to the USFL coaches contract, I would think low six figures would be the max on
the USFL side, maybe ninety K hundred k only paying. If you're paying somebody for I guess this job wouldn't tell about I mean, it's year round because you have the draft and analyzing players and all that kind of stuff. But you're paying somebody on the clock for six months, you know, it's kind of like, you know, uh, the league probably figures, why are we going to pay this guy to be home for half of the year. So I would assume, I don't know what Skip Haltz is deal.
He might have a better contract than let's just say, like CJ. Johnson and all these other guys, but it wasn't to the level of what Stoop's got, what Wade Phillips got, what Anthony Beck got. So so that's kind of the story there. So it's gonna be an interesting The cool thing is, and you could see it like Wade Phillips could he be back in the NFL? Sure? Why not? Like not as a head coach. I don't think so. I'm sorry, but uh not to say that he's
not worthy of that opportunity. I just think that like that ship is sailed because he's in his late seventies now as a senior defensive assistant that kind of thing. Maybe assistant head coach, sure, but I think he likes the gig. I don't see him going to Canada so per se. So you know, so, I mean the league should make some changes in coaching. We saw de Philippo was crying after the Memphis victory where they you know, secure the first picker and every and every draft possible. We saw him crying
because he doesn't know if he's going to be back or not. He's had a very emotional story, like health wise and everything to get back to this point. So you feel for guys like that. But I hate to say this, I get in trouble for this stuff. But a couple of changes wouldn't be such a bad thing. You just want to write people in those shoes. Let's transition here, excuse me to let's talk ratings, championship ratings, and then we can kind of parlay that into kind of other thoughts.
Performance for the season, here and then obviously move into looking to next year. One point five nine to six million. I think I had said over under was one point four. I had it slightly under that. I think that this is great in terms of being over that thoughts first of all on the championship game. Obviously not the most compelling on the field, and we've talked about that. It was funny because, like I said on the Monday recap, we did. Even some of the people I saw in the lobby
were like, yeah, this was a great game. I said, well, as long as you're saying it, because I'm always mister negative Nancy, So as long as you're saying it wasn't the best game. My thoughts on this performance and just kind of overall TV ratings for the year, sure, you know, just tracking it, reporting the ratings every week for Sports Illustrated the week prior. I you know, I talked the big theme after, you know, the playoff ratings were very positive, was whether or not they
could surpass what this what the previous leagues had done. They certainly did that. When this number came in, when I got it directly from Nielsen and then the network, I was I was mildly surprised, and I think and then I started thinking to myself almost immediately, Good lord, what could they have potentially done if the game was exciting or close or came down to the wire. You see the pea happen while Tom Brady. You got a picture
of Tom Brady up there on the screen. Brady was in the booth around six' ten I want to say, he stayed for about ten minutes or so, and and what you call it their highest peak I believe was in that six fifteen to six thirty. So no coincidence there, And that was a big social media moment because all the main stream sites as soon as Brady was in the booth put that out on social media. Hey Brady's in the booth. Brady's in the booth and all like he had all the aggregators and
everything. Man, yeah, football whatever, Yeah, everyone going crazy, Ari Myrov and and all these other guys that were out there that were, uh that went. So I'm not surprised that that the peak should have been at the end of the game, But why would it be at the end of the game when you had a game like that twenty five nothing slow plotting, you know, nearly a zero zero first half until Birmingham kind of caught on late so in that quarter, so I think they could have done much
better. It makes you wonder it wasn't considering that it's Father's Day, right, considering the timeframe, which I know five o'clock's not that bad. It's not exactly prime time, but consider you know, it's whatever two o'clock on the West Coast, whatever it is four o'clock on Central Time or whatever. So they I think in a primetime slot would be more ideal spot. And
obviously most important aspect of this is the quality of the game. I think it was unfortunate that the game itself wasn't great, because you know, with any championship game, you're going to get some eyeballs of people who don't watch during the season, and you know, this is the highest rating of the year, but it isn't overly, you know, like they had the UFL had a couple of games within that one, two, one three range, that kind of deal, So this isn't like all of a sudden they shot
up to two million, But it makes you want to get a lot of casuals. So they got some casuals here, But I think they would have had a better number overall if the game was good, and you want that sample audience to come watch this rocking, awesome Electric game and go, damn, you know what, I screwed up not watching during the whole season. I'm going to come back and watch. I don't know if this championship game gave you that. If you're a casual guy, you probably tune in and
go ahead. And the players are not too good. Look at this guy, he's trying to protect himself. He's not trying to get first downs, you know, Garber's guy, and he got clowned by a lot of the mainstream sites out there for doing that. What's the saying, business decision right? Yeah, so so anyhow so so maybe it didn't leave the greatest impression. The broadcast is great, Joe Clad is great. I don't know so much about that Robo dogrob That thing was wild because it was there. And
then I watched the highlights. We're sitting in what I mean, and that could almost be PTSD if you were like you know some of those you know, I we had this. I gotta tell you, I'm not I'm not I'm not a hunter. I'm not a violent person. I love dogs, but if I saw one of those robo things in my yard, I might go get a weapon and neutralize it. It like creepy out. I don't know, strange, but I get it. But it wasn't you know, it's just an added thing. You saw the look on Kurt Warner's face.
It wasn't It wasn't exactly going for it. But yeah, so I thought the broadcast was good. Its sleek looked great. Joe Clad is amazing. This is such a great job with it. It's unfortunately the game was great. I don't think about it for us, you know, fans like me advocates my whole life since the USFL in the eighties. I'll be back. But but you what I'm thinking about is the league's growth. So I'm thinking
about how can you lure people in for the next year. And I don't think they like destroyed that possibility, But they serve as hell didn't capture that moment. Not their fault. Sometimes these championship games suck. Yeah, I don't I agree with that. I don't. I don't know if it was if it was like blown by it, but it's certainly and it's to no follow their own like I said, I was talking to league people like you
can't, you can't. I mean, this is this is why I never made sense when you know, wwe ever had storylines that weren't happy, you didn't satisfy the audience, because it's like you are able to, you know, craft this narrative exactly how you want to. Uh, you know, you can't control that. But in terms of it just feels like, yeah, like a missed opportunity. Like a lot of these like well, we're we're not gonna do this Umple Metal draft this year. We're not gonna do
this. This has just felt like another like we could have something could have been if this game would have been great. I'm curious your thoughts on like the BattleHawks of it not being there. I know we were well on and I heard back from people that were not happy with my comments about that. But you know, even if you had turned on the game and there was thirty thousand Ballahawks people there, I think it would have made a difference.
Do you have thoughts on that? And we've been asked like would Saint Louis host again? Like I don't think they go back to Saint Louis. I feel like that was the opportunity. I'm here's your thoughts. Well, I'll say this point right, so before I get into all that, I love your show. You've done a tremendous job into space for four years. But I don't always agree with your takes. But that's it's important that we have different takes, right, So, I think maybe you were a little bit.
I get where you're coming from. I definitely I get where you're coming from. Though I know that they the League of League sources I spoke with, they had they were they felt that they were going to have at least forty five k in attendance for that game had Saint Louis made it, I believe they would have been in that neighborhood, no question about it. If they you know, I get it. I look, with this league, I'm a fan for the entire league. I want the fan the league to
exist because it means thousands of jobs and opportunities for four players. Right, So, I don't have a team that I root for, per se, So I'm rooting for the entire league, but I get the fandom aspect of it. I'll just say this, I know this is like a fairy tale world. Thing. But like if I had tickets to the Super Bowl at MetLife and the Jets had gotten to an AFC championship game, I realized,
that's fairy tale stuff. But if they had gotten to I mean, it's been however many years they did it two years on a Rex Ryan, but that was like seventy years ago. But anyhow, But if the Jets had gotten AFC championship and they lost in bitter fashion and not gotten a Super Bowl, I'd have a heart. From a fandom aspect, I'd have a hard time going to MetLife and watching, say, I don't know, let's just say the Bills beat the Jets. Watching watching the Bills win a Super Bowl,
I'd root against the Bills likely if I went there. I know that's petty. So when people when BattleHawks fans weren't attendance, booing Wade Phillips for the game, I got I as a fan, I get it. Take it off the journalists cap, the writing cap, all that. As a fan, I totally get it. For those who didn't show up, I get it. I can tell you when the Jets lost to the Steelers, when the Jets lost to the Cults and the AFC Championship and they didn't get
to the super Bowl. It was kind of a fairy tale year. They won nine games that season and they fell short against Paint Manning and then Indianapolis. I watched the Super Bowl with the Cults the next week when the Jets lost to the Steelers. That next year when they went and they beat Brady and Belichick in New England and Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. When they lost that game to the Steelers, I didn't watch the Super Bowl. So and that's
the first sup Bowl. I hadn't watched it a long time, and that's my fandom there. So I say that to say that I understand if any Saint Louis fans. This shows you how passionate they were about the league and their team. I understand the league, but of course, but like that they've already proved like Saint Louis. I'm not saying the entire hire city of Saint Louis, but Saint Louis has already proven that they're in on this league.
Like if we're nobody should get a pass, right, but if we're gonna, if we're gonna, like rank the fan bases, who's most invested in this league. It kind of like Saint Louis above everybody else. I'm sorry, this is the most beloved team in spring pro football, most beloved team we've seen in this concept for a long time, right, So, I mean that's just kind of the story there. So I'm a little hesitant to be harsh on them now whether or not they'd ever come back to Saint
Louis. We knew this was the possibility that like if st we knew, if Saint Louis gets there, they're gonna have a chance to beat the modern
day Spring pro football record. I know USFL in the eighties, CFL in America had some Baltimore Stallions had some hugely attended games, but they were talking for or five decades ago, right, So if they had, we know, if Saint Louis had gotten to the championship game, they would have threatened to, you know, surpass whatever it was forty thousand for their opener this year. So the fact that they we know, like again with this attendance
stuff, I get it. This is in the venues, they give you the number, right, and then so this is what happens in Major League Baseball, NHL hockey. They give you. That's why I purposely put attendance figure, not actual attendance, because this is the attendance figure they give you. So twenty seven k was not in that building, right, we know
that. But you know, it's tickets paid and tickets distributed. There's like a fine line there too, becauseicket tickets distributed could be sponsors and stuff they get comps, and it could also be tickets. So they were just given away for free whatever. Your local gas station had a slurpy thing, so whatever, whatever it was. You know. So so twenty seven k,
they definitely they would have surpassed that. They you know, I'm not saying they would have doubled that, but they would have surpassed that by a huge margin. Whether or not they'll be back in saying Louis it all depends on venue availability a lot of these things. It's kind of a tricky thing they
get into with these spring leagues. Like Michigan Panthers. They you know, they lost in the last game of the season, but they almost won the USFL and then you know, the conference and then didn't host the game because Fordfield is unavailable because of a convention. So a lot of this has to do a venue availability. I think considering the circumstances, the bitterness of the BattleHawks losing, I thought I thought they did Okay, it could have been
a lot worse. If that game was in Memphis. How many fans do you think we draw? Yeah, if that game was in Houston, how many fans do you think we draw? So, even whatever whoever's in attendance, whatever the attendance figure is, I don't know, you'd have a hard time getting twenty seven k in a lot of these places. Can't say that. Far Aready Field obviously, because they're they're max is. If you really push at twenty k, you know, if you had some seating here and
there. So I mean, but but I don't think they're You know, if the Brahmas San Antonio they didn't have I think their number was twenty two k for the XFL Championship, they didn't actually have twenty two k. It seemed like maybe that crowd was larger than what we saw in Saint Louis. I don't know. It's hard to stay with those stadiums sometimes, but you were there, so, I mean, I did like people arguing with me. One, I guess someone is sad and I was upstairs and downstairs for
both games, I can tell you. But yeah, it's fine. I mean, I don't the heart too much on that, but I'm just with curious your thoughts. Yeah, there are people, there are people. There are people who get free tickets. Unfortunately they don't go, and then you have that and then that sucks. But like and then and then you have you know the issue with Yeah, I hate making excuses for these things, but you know, in Father's Day is definitely a factor too in terms of
selling tickets. And ideally your championship game would not be a day where families are together honoring their dad unless your dads a football fan, you got them
ticket, so that kind of deal. So anyhow, on an alternative note, and we because we took my mom to Mother's Day, I mean, Mariners Baseball sold out on Father's Day, so I mean it's there is yeah, And but the thing is, and we go through this with the CFL too, Right when the CFL crowd comes out there and ignorantly goes after some of these newer leagues, Yankees, Mariners, all these different friends they've been
around forever. There it's like a built in institution. There are waiting lists over generations for these they these these leagues are not been around for generations. They're not have been around for decades to build up that popularity. They're not at the level I don't I hate using the term, but these are considered minor league. This is considered a minor league because obviously the NFL is a premier league. They're above everybody, but so in comparison to the NFL,
this is a minor league. I don't like that term, but I get it if you're going by that definition. So, yeah, the Mariners do well in Father'sday. The Yankees do well on Father's Day. The Mets do well on Father's Day. There are New York Rangers in hockey, they do well in Fathers whatever franchises are out there that are established and been around for thirty forty fifty plus years. Yeah, Red Sox great on Father's Day. It's a little bit. These these leagues are still these leagues, and these
teams are still in the early stages where it's not a must see. They're an alternative maybe option. They're not we gotta go, we gotta go see. The Mariners they are like, maybe I'll try that out, and then it has to fit into until it becomes a smashing like whatever the fever with Kate and Clark were now to can demand as old, let's go see it, it's an event. They haven't reached that point yet. There's still planning seeds and trying to grow. Last question on that or right, I guess
here let's move into I'm just making time code notes. In terms of overall, I think the execs have to be really happy this year, right, I think in terms of TV, we saw a lot of growth. Obviously the football was good. We expected that, you know, the championship game aside, and like I said, you can't kind of control that. But thoughts here that kind of round out this part of it and then we'll move
into next season. But you know what do they think? Because I've my only hesitation and I'm always the one with being hesitant, is you know, we saw these TV games this year, You're not going to see it again next year, especially moving games to Friday unless you really really make a marketing push on that. So I guess before we move into next year, what did your sense of how people felt both on the field and off the field for this year? Sure, like the expectation level was that the ratings were
going to go up. And that's something I wrote about, talked about a million times. The more games you have on big network television, on broadcast
network television, the better your ratings are going to be. I mean, the XFL last year is crazy that they had, you know, the same regular season numbers as the USFL, or a little bit better, you know, considering the fact how many they only had six games or five games during the actually six games whatever it was during the season on ABC, which by the way, they averaged over a one point one million viewers on ABC the
entire season, and they were on there they had good ratings. So the fact that they had so many big network games through ABC and Fox, by default the ratings were going to go up. So I'm not surprised at all. And then of course they averaged I want to say it was nine hundred and forty five thousand on the big networks, the broadcast networks. Cable I think was six thirty or something like that. Overall they were eight thirty, right, so when you combine cable in the network. So so I'm not
surprised. And then nobody and nobody inside the league should be surprised at the year over year growth that they saw and whether or not they can carry that into next year, that remains to be seen. I just wrote an article about the attendance at Sports Illustrated. I was down from the XFL in twenty twenty three. Not by a lot, but it was down right. So it was like about a thousand factored into about one thousand fans per game.
Of that adds up right. So XFL I think did over six hundred and thirty thousand last year and the UFL just finished up at five eighty one I believe five eighty one k. So they definitely need to work on the attendance aspect. Now, you know Danny Garcia, you know I put her quote in the article, or her talking about having a full off season and more of a time to make a sales pitch. That'll that'll help out for them, at least in theory. And of course they're sticking with the eight markets.
They got to make it work. You wait and see on what strategy they use to boost attendance and interest locally, and it's it's a big question mark for them whether they whether they or not thinking boost popularity. I would be surprised. And I'm hopefully I'm wrong on this if they if they're ahead of the game next year in TV ratings with some hard work, with some hard work, they could be ahead of the game in attendance because they didn't
do that great this year. In terms, it's just funny here with this article, you know, the home or the XFL Homer and me would say, well, it's because you said, you know, you subbed out some of these, you know, cashman Field that was mocked for six thousand was celebrated for six thousand, the Memphis you know, so like there is some of that where I think you subbed out for even for poor XFL home markets outperformed, you know, presumably the four you know home markets of the USFL.
For that, I want to make sure we touch on just real quick here. Players already getting signed have to be celebrated by that, you know, that the leagues are happen that that's coming out Jake Bates and all that. Thoughts on that just in terms of you know, players already making the transition, and I know you had already talked this sweek about how excited you are to see that be able to track that, but I want to make
sure that we touch down on that. Sure. As a football nerd, I love this stuff, so it's you know, I'm into rosters in the draft. The second best draft predictor on the planet, by the way, this best year. But anyway, but no, I love roster stuff. Like right now, I have a list off to my left of how many actual roster spots are available in the NFL right at this moment, and it's fifteen. Most NFL teams are at ninety. That's fifteen. After all these
UFL signings, I believe it's been a dozen. So I did this last year too. Somehow, the XFL last year had sixty nine players that were signed. I know everybody loves that number. Sixty nine players that were signed by the National Football League teams. The USFL ended up having forty two despite
a later endto their season. So in order for these UFL players to have an opportunity, there's got to be openings, right, And then sometimes it's ironic and crazy how it works, Like in order for a UFL player to be signed, somebody loses their job gets cut to free it up. And then a lot of times I look at the player as being cut and I'm like, oh man, that guy was great at Georgia. Maybe he'll play
in the UFL next year. So it's it's crazy how that works, right, you know, but ah that kind of you know, I see like Luke Barku get cut and it's like, wow, he was in the XFL last year doing a great job. And then you know, you see, like whatever, the Steelers add a UFL player, so maybe Carlos Davis will see But so it's I love the aspect of it. I'm a nerd. Like I said, I have a list of every team in the NFL off
to my left ear how many players they actually have on their roster. Like the Bengals have eighty seven players right now, so I look at them waiting for them to sign a UFL players, you know, that kind of deal. So that's fluid, that changes every day. So so if it's twelve players that signed, yeah, and there's only fifteen spots, that means the max you can get his twenty seven. But I think we're not gonna have the one hundred and eleven players that signed from both leagues last year because of
the timeline and everything else. But I think you'll have a healthy amount. It's great for these players and the players. Even if the players don't make the teams, the fact that this league is helping them get in additional opportunity is cool. There's no guarantees you're gonna make an NFL roster, you know, it's just at the percentage is very it's very challenging. So just these guys getting a second, third, first opportunity, you know, it's cool.
You got a veteran like Garian Conley getting a chance for redemption. He might not make the Cowboys. You got Willie Harvey, maybe he is a star for Dallas. Who knows, right, Cole Levo, maybe he turns out to be terrific for the Jets. He's playing right next to Elijah Veritak, who knows. Maybe he doesn't, maybe gets cut. But the fact that these guys, and it's awesome. My guys who came from the indoor league and then tried spring leagues and ended up in the NFL. So it's
fun for me. I know, I'm familiar with every single NFL roster, back end, front end, paying attention to your commanders, So I'm like looking at looking at potential players that you know they should sign from the UFL. They've already gone to worked out a bunch of kickers and all that. We'll see what is mesa med So it's a it's it's a fun aspect to this, and the people within the league are so proud of when NFL teams signed these players. They feel validation if you're a GM like a Zachary Potter
or Von Hutchins, all these terrific guys. Mark lilly Bridge did such an awesome job with the Brahmas, right, He's got so many former NFL draft picks, Mark Wez, Stevenson's Anthony McFarland, who should be in an NFL roster. If you're these guys, you know, Dave Bowlers, you're proud of. It speaks to your work as a GM that you were, and then it speaks to your coaches. How good of a job Kyle Caskey did with the BattleHawks with guys like Jacob Sailors and Wayne Gollman playing special teams and
bawling out. He also coached the special team, So when he sees a guy like Sailors get a chance, it's funny like with a lot of these guys like you know in NFL circles like the fan bases and the media celebrates all these undrafted signings and then they're like, oh, look, how great, this is a good older and then as soon as they're cut, people
forget about the play and they don't even think about them. And that's why with Jacob Sailors, he got ten thousand dollars to sign with the Cincinnati Bengals out of East Tennessee State, he didn't make their team, impressed enough to land on the Falcons practice squad. The BattleHawks bring him in, he has a great season, and he's back in the NFL with the New York Giants. Now he's getting another shot. So I mean, so we'll see how
it goes. But I think it's awesome for guys like that Sailors or Conley or whoever finds their way back in, and for the UFL fan, the die hard, it makes the preseason games and training camp moren't interesting because you're paying attention to how these guys do and you hope they end up like a Donald Parham, what's going on like his sixth straight season in the NFL. The PJ Walker somehow still surviving going the Elijah Campbell's one of the best special
teams players in the NFL. Played for the DC Defenders back in twenty twenty. He's still in the league. He's played with the Jets, Dolphins, et cetera. So you root for these guys, and it's a testament to the value of these leagues when you know the Brandon Aubreys, Cavante Turpins, Young Way, Coups, de Ernest Johnson's, all these guys because of their playing in these leagues, I've been able to carve out extended pro careers well,
and that's why. And I think that it's great. And you know, when you boil down the numbers and we saw you know, the players getting on and who actually sticks, I mean, I think it's tremendous.
I think that's why this needs to be one of seventeen messages promoting the league and not the message promoting the right because you know, I think you get into that and I think even last year with the XFL and then it's like, oh, we had you know, one one guy or two whatever it was, it actually stuck when all was said and done, when we you know, and I know, things changed throughout the season and all of that
for the NFL. But like that's why you can't build your entire marketing push for the league round like look at all the players we get and then yeah, and then like you said, the second that you know they get caught the with then it's like, okay, well hey we got you know,
we got them on that accounts as a signing. So looking here, general consensus, I would you agree happy with everything given the circumstances this season, with the truncated offseason coming together, the late merger and all of that.
Here like it feels okay, we're kind of I don't know, if not that this season was a punt, but almost just like, well we just tried to get through this year and now, really, the folks, is that kind of what you're sensing the focuses and I want to kind of start curtelling this now and looking towards next year, like like maybe this is UFL season point five and the next year is going to be one point zero or what it was this a beta season? How do you use it? Kind
of had a look, yeah, it's a good point read. It kind of had a beta feel to it because of the short time frame that dispersal draft fine, which is fine. I think it lends itself to them potentially being better next year. We have more time to sell tickets on the football front, they'll have more time to scout. They can actually do things in unison now instead of just like taking a dispersal draft where you're divving up players
from non existing teams. Now you can actually have multiple drafts, you can do you can do a lot of interesting things with the league. You can do full on scouting with the showcases. Everybody's working together. You know, late in the process last year, USFL teams were still conducting business as if they were you know, the generals and the Stars, all these guys signing players, you know, conducting as if they were pushing forward and they're going
to have a standard season. So now they're all together in on the showcases, and you know, I've reached out to the league asking about another potential combine that's possible. Last year there was a centralized combine. People forget that stuff, the rookie draft the XFL had because this whole merger business came on down the road. So they have a chance to be a better football product
because they have more time and preparation. They need to iron out what they're going to do with the coaching staffs and figure that all out that part of it, the gms, the front office. Hopefully everybody's back in play. I know a lot of people want to come back, right So the sooner you have that worked out, the better. But I think the broadcasting product and I think they can do a better job if they put in the effort.
I'm not saying they're gonna knock it out of the park right because these some markets may not embrace the league, but I think they can do a better job with attendants if they have more time to sell tickets instead of like a week before, or I think they can strategize it. Whether or not they take the correct steps, that remains to be seen. But whether or not they implement a proper strategy to be more popular in these markets or at least get noticed a little more, you know, So so you know that
it takes time. You know, you're you're you know if you want to, you know, Russ Brandon and other people said maybe had a little too much red wine. I've said things like this is gonna be a forever league, but they have they generally feel that we'll see but it takes in the early stages. It does take time. It's not some of these places are not going to be an overnight success. So now transition here the season two right and so obviously so we had and it was funny because this came out.
It was like Monday. We were kind of you know, I'm reading there and I'm like, Okay, Darryl did an interview. Okay, who is this? Okay, Eric, because he like he works like in it's part of it with the if I could get this thing up here like Fox works at NFL, I reached out come the news anyway. So I'm like, Okay, who is this anyway? So I'm like, okay, well he's with Fox again. This is the kind of thing where missed opportunities.
Uh, you know, I would think in a different world you could have a big announcement of or an announcement of, like we are excited to be back for all eight cities next year. We're making strong efforts towards this. This is a plan, this is what we're you know, we're going to be as Russ Brandon told me when they announced the XFL Hub two years ago, like we're going to be the first people into the markets. We're going
to be the last people out. But instead we have this kind of in the line on the Fox sports dot Com article, like, you know we're going to be back next year. We're concentrating on that. Thoughts on it kind of you know, we've expected this, and there's been rumblings of this similar you know, kind of uh talking points, but kind of came out like this, and here we are. There's not going to be expansion next year, like we're just rolling with the eight Like, thoughts how that came
out? Sure, the announcement is a tough one because how do you spin that as a positive? Like how do you say to the people we're not expanding, So those teams that we you know, abandon put on post mode, we're not bringing them back. And how do you say to some people who are vocally critical about some of the markets that didn't do so great, how do you say? How do you say to them, Hey, we're
sticking it out with you. Don't worry about the five thousand and six thousand fans, don't worry about these two franchises that won one game all season or whatever. We're sticking it out. So it's kind of hard they're showing faith like what Moose told And I reached out to Eric and I, you know, I asked them, maybe I shouldn't say that, but I asked them a couple of questions, like did you ask Moose about the timeline for next season? And there isn't an answer on that quite yet. So I was
trying to see if maybe I can. You know, Eric's good, he follows me. I follow him. Obviously, he did a very good job with it, and he got Moose to They wanted only part of it. They wanted to expand a year or two of the UFL. The fact that
they're not tells you they you know, a couple different things. Now they won't say this publicly, but whether or not they're really financially to make that kind of commitment, and whether or not if they had more success, if the eight teams were more of a success, I think they'll be like, Okay, let's go to the next one. So the fact that they still feel that they need to do more building. We'repare fixing of their own current cars, Like they got eight cars on the lot, a few of them
need some work. Let's work on that before we get new cars. Fact that they're doing that, it tells you it's not it's not the greatest message of growth. You love the fact that they're saying, we have faith in Memphis, we have faith in Michigan, we have faith in Houston. We're
seeing this through. We're in this for the long run. You know, you love that sentiment, but it's how do you sell that in a pr kind of deal because a lot of people are expecting expansion, Like a lot of people were upset that it went from sixteen teams to eight in this space, a lot of teams, a lot of people want to see something that's a hook for year two of the UFL, like something that shows a level of growth, and they're trying to I guess grow from within. But yeah,
I could more have been made about it. Sure, but there is the negative side of this that they're not I'm cool with them not expanding, but there is a negative side to them not expanding, and there is a negative side to them not relocating and like saying, you know what, it's not gonna work here, Let's go to a market where it will because we're going to see the same criticisms. I know, people don't like it. People were in the bubble that our UFL supporters don't want to hear it,
but we're gonna see the same stuff read next year. If Memphis doesn't draw well, if certain teams doesn't do not drow well, they're gonna be like, why the hell did the league not leave? Well, I get what you're saying, and I think and I want to get it to the quote here and we talk about because we got the protective leads and we've got Michigan and kind of all of that. But I do think there's a way where you come out and I think you do a press conference. And we were
coming back from the you know, we were doing the stream. Anthony got to the game early to do the media stuff. Andy and I were finishing up and then we made our way over. I know that like they were doing they had like a technology suite where you could go see like the drones and things like that. But you know, last year they had Danny and and Dwayne on the field pregame and I did attend that, and then they
did the obviously the post game with the trophy presentation. But I do think that you get Danny there or Russ there, or Darryl or what's the but what's the message? Is it like a Wolf of Wall Street. We're not leaving hey, Memphis, We're not leaving you. It's like I'm not leaving my girlfriend. I'm staying with her. But I think I say, we've
had tremendous growth this season. We've seen thirty you know, well the stuff that Mike mulva Hill posts all the time, you know, we've seen thirty five percent growth year over year, and the markets that we've stayed in that
you know that we have year over year where battle Hawks increases. You just say, like, well, the you know, the markets, I hear you, and then you say, now we're making the commitment now for the next I just I think there's a way to do it and make an announcement where you know, we're investing in and we're going to be you know, we're going to be having the street teams in these markets over the next six months, and we're going to be looking to come out to community events and
build. Like, I just think there's the way that you can do it versus like a throwaway line in the Fox Sports dot Com article and no disrespect to Eric Williams, but like, yeah, we're gonna make a commitment next year. I just think that there's a way to say not retreating I hear you like. To Moose's credit, I don't know Moose personally obviously, but to his credit, he's been very transparent with this stuff. So it's a lot of time. It's like admitting that, you know, we're not where
we should be in these places. It's kind of like the gist of what he's been saying even earlier this season in Memphis media, talking about how you know so, and he obviously did that last year when the USFL was separate from the XFL, he was pretty down on Birmingham. So no surprise here we are in UFL and the attendance for Birmingham wasn't great all right, So I mean they could have like done something. Danny Garcia talked about how they
didn't see the year over year growth that they wanted in attendance. So they think that with more time for sales to you know, to have they got a point there. You know, if you're if you're the they do, having more time could help in theory. It's how they implement it what they do. I don't disagree with that. They were kind of rushed into scheduling and all that. In terms of even the TV schedule like that, Moose mentioned the fact that you know, they less than idea that they had so
many Battle of Hawks games going directly against Cardinals games. They ended Battlewks end up doing pretty decently altics considered, but you know, sometimes it was close to intended. So anyhow, it is what it is. But but yeah, I definitely could have painted it better, just in a simple throwaway I think people, with all due respect, I when I shared Eric Williams article, it was on X for maybe twenty minutes or so, I had zero likes, zero retweets, and then I shared it. Now he's got several
hundred likes and all that kind stuff. So I'm glad that I was able to do that for him, because he's been writing good articles all year about the UFL, and he does a very good job with the NFL and all that, and sometimes these things get kind of lost. So I'm glad I was able to share it, if anything, on my timeline, and then all of a sudden, you know a lot of people like saw it, read it, Oh, look at that. There was some cool stuff in
there. There was also an article for An Office Sports this week with a great quote from Oliver Luck that really didn't get a lot of attention. I was glad I was able to share that too out there. Oliver Luck pretty interesting opinions on things in terms of investing, spending money, and when the timeline of the league should be. So, yeah, it could probably be worded a little bit differently. I think they need to do more with their
actions, like what are you doing in Memphis? What are you doing in Michigan, rather than just like some vague response about yeah, we're going to be first in the markets and the last ones out, and we're going to do this like show some things you're doing. Yeah. I like cause I was just looking at it. You know, I'll take I'll take a part. So for those impressions on there I did, I'm doing my job together. I'm to get there. I was happy. I said, oh my
goodness, this has zero likes. Zero likes is pretty bad, you know, like at least you're like your grandmother will like it or something. I said, yeah, so zero likes, and I like boom. You know, it was good to see it, you know, people reading and checking out. Yeah, so I like just to make sure we touch on this if you haven't. And yeah, I was looking at the Olliver Leck thing and you know, maybe I don't even know what Oliver Luck is up to
nowadays. Maybe track that own way here with with home markets. We got to build that trust there. We're not going to leave and that league isn't in the fold. We've got a couple of cities historically been partspering football. They've committed to the team, and the team is left. We've still got some trust to build in home markets. I think we were selling tickets for the home opener in Houston seven days out, in Michigan seven days out.
Last year was getting the merger complete, getting everything in place, and then putting the season together. This year, we've already been planning for season two of the UFL nine months out. We've had lots of thing pieces during the season with Todd Murco former you know, we're in a football exach on here and even Dan Kaplan, the sports you know, business reporter for decades, and uh, what does that mean to you? Just more marketing. I
mean we're doubling down. I want to talk leases here, but we're just kind of doubling down, Like what is your thoughts of what what does that mean for looking at the next year, scheduling earlier, like having an earlier schedule, come out, putting tickets on sale earlier, and then whether or not they do this or remains to be seen whether or not they want to
put resources and having actual sales teams working. Uh they when they're doing seasonal employees, that makes it kind of difficult, right, so you know, and then you know, actually doing more things in the community, reaching out
to high schools and youth programs and all this kind of stuff. And then if so be it, you have to give out some tickets, some comps to youth programs and people in the community that you get them to come out to the game, because maybe you have some young people that come out to the games and then go tell their dad and mom, I want to go
back. You know. It was cool, like we saw a little bit in the UFL this season there was some young fans I'm forgetting the plea forgive me kid's name who was actually drawing all the logos to the UFL team. Yeah, but that's cool because I became when I was a kid, I became you know this crazy now, you know, dating myself here, but
over four decades being a football fan. So it was pretty that I became a fan of the CFL and the USFL and of course the NFL and all this stuff as a kid and did the drawings and writing stuff and all that. So it's cool to see that you have to appeal to the young crowd. You know, when you appeal to the young crowd, you know, it's the way it goes to tickets, right, you know, they can't
go to the games by themselves. So like this is why like Disney and animated stuff, all this stuff exists because instead of getting two adults coming into your game, you got mom and dad bringing a bunch of the kids. So that's how you multiply attendant. So I think they need to do certain have certain activities and more actions, just more time. They were late to the finish line. There was a couple of hang ups in the in terms
of the paperwork they filed with the government for the merger. It was a clear cut they had to come back with paperwork in order to get the merger pushed through. So and there was a time where they and I was on your show, and so I know it's Funny people think they have receivets and stuff. But there was a time where this league was actually gonna have ten teams and so and but they decided on eight. So that was that was like at the end of the run there. They just didn't have enough time
to even go beyond that. And the hope was that a year or two they would have more teams. But I don't think they feel their sound. It tells me that they don't feel there's sound enough at their base to start branching outward and so and then we'll talk about leases in a second, but that's also a factor in all this. So we'll see whether or not that changes the game plan what Moose is talking about, what he told Eric Williams, Uh, we'll see. Yeah, let's let's move on to that.
So year, you know, I guess it's year four now. Of the USFL teams, right, a lot of them here, Ye're three of some of the XFL we're seeing lease issues or not least issues. But you know, Protective Field was on a Protective Stadium was on a three year at least. Right we're talking Detroit. We had and we looked at it beforehand. Mike with the Alternative Football Network talking about the Detroit Lions kind of least being
up. Do we do any moving around there in terms of like Birmingham and Detroit or I know, Houston. We're talking to TDC where we stay in the markets and we're moving venues. Any thoughts on any of that. You got to look at all options. So like you know, a lot of times, you know, people don't focus in on the fact that some of these venues with the league, like the XFL had a very good deal with the Dome at America Center in terms of percentage of ticket sales beyond a certain
point, et cetera. So where they actually exceeded that and were able to profit you know, you promise. So I don't know what the specifics are with ford Field, whether or not. You know, obviously the Tendants hasn't been great there. They you know, had some moments, but for the most part was great. So I don't know if they're gonna stay. You
know, the least is important, Well they look at alternative options. In Michigan, they very well could you know, they got to make that decision relatively early and not let that stagnate and go on and not like with Vegas. We saw with the Vipers where they didn't have a location for the longest time and then they announced cash mean like were like almost at that, and they looked at like Bishop Gorman and all this other stuff, all these other
alternative options there, so they didn't. They didn't. So if you're gonna make a move away from ford Field or whatever you're gonna you're gonna have, you need to do that as soon as possible. If you have to not wait until the mpteenth hour, you know, you got to get these deals done way in advance so you can set up scheduling and all that and then you can sell tickets early. I don't like the fact that tickets are sold so late you know in the process that that doesn't help in terms of selling
tickets. I want to get your thoughts. And we talked a little bit during the pregame show for the UFL Championship game, but in terms of walking this line between being built just for TV or versus wanting to be in because a lot of what their words are saying, and we talked like the Darryl Johnson here, you know, it feels like they're saying the right things in terms of we want to build these home markets. But you see a lot of the actions, and we have all the time these debates about you know,
gates and everything else. Like where does that line exist between them wanting to be built just for TV versus actually wanting to build these fan bases there and sell what's your wreath on that? I think that's the full Like a lot of people who are supporters of this league want to say that the UFL only cares about being a TV product, And I think the reason why the merger happened is because the USFL side, the Fox side, wanted to see
people butts and seats. They wanted to see attendance improved. So they don't want to just be a TV of course that's important for Disney. For Fox, they like the fact that they own a league. They don't have to pay a rights fee, and they've got this like relatively and pro football is not cheap but relatively affordable programming, you know, so, and they don't have to pay a rights fee for it. So they want they want to
they want to be more successful than they are. So I think this, like I've said a million times, like on your show and everywhere else I've ever been. This merger bought them more time and they've they have a respectable floor. They've done a good job with TV viewership. But I think that they see it, they think, and they would want to do much better than they have. So I think they you know, it's can they rope in more sponsors more than just Army. That was great. Army gave them
ten million bucks. It was important Dwayne Johnson and everybody to go lobby basically to get that deal. And they had the whole showing in Congress and all. Yeah, yeah, so that was to do with well, no, it's like yes, it was very president yeah, and you know they and it helped having the rock for that right as salesman, you know that a lot of those people they were happy to you know, share rubbed shoulders with the with a movie star, athlete, et cetera. So they need to
rope in more sponsors and then that helps with ratings. The Championship Game rating didn't hurt. You know, you can point to their year over year growth Fox and Disney. You know, they're they're they're happy with the product. They think they see the potential of it right now, whether or not they can get to the where they can create a new ceiling, where they can actually where this can become a hot property in the sports world. I think
a lot of that's going to take them attracting more casual fans. They haven't really accomplished that yet. There's still a lot of people that are unaware of the product. They don't know it exists, or there are many who know that it's in the periphery, but they don't care about it to even watch. It's not on the radar. They don't care. They're more interested in NHL, NBA established leagues. Why would I want to watch that? So that's kind of story. So how do you convince some of those people to
watch your league? And so that's the potential of these leagues. I think spring pro. I know a lot of people that in the community that you know right about the NFL that don't watch this league, and I would love I try my best to do the sales pitch, like you really should watch. The games are fun, the league is great, there's so many cool
players. My goodness, this, that and the other. I'm like, if all I can only imagine, like me as an NFL fan, if I could watch a Jets game where Robert Salah was Mike the whole game talking to players. Good Lord, Like if NFL, I don't think they'll ever maybe the luncher who knows the NFL ever entered the type of access that you have during UFL games because these players, like for the casual fan, the
players don't. The casual fan doesn't really know these players. But if you're watching an NFL game, you know, a sudden yeah, and Jayden Daniels on the sideline and him and Terry McLaurin are going at it, you know whatever, or or Dan quinns yelling at his defensive players and I mean you're seeing all that, yeah, right, or or or he's fired up, he's happy. So but you know, these all my I and even imagine how people would be blown away if you just took one NFL game and did
what the UFL does, just one. And I don't like people. I think we're kind of spoiled people in the UFL space. So like it's like we're used to it by now, we've seen it for so long, but it's like such a cool feature that so anyway, it's how do you get and then you know, how do you brand these players? Because a lot of people, it's unfortunate a lot of people. There's still a lot of ignorant fools out there. I think these players are some kind of weird semi
pro guys hang out at the bar, you know. You know, so it's not all these all Americans in college and SEC guys in former NFL draft picks. Over ninety percent of the players in the league have professional experience, you know. All that got young players too, They've been in NFL camps. They just haven't had an opportunity to break through and get playing time.
So they're getting that chance now. So how do you attract without because the problem with the minor league in the G league thing is sure everybody says, oh, the NFL needs a G league, but people ignore minor leagues. If people think, I'm sorry, if people think the game the outcomes of the games don't matter. That's where that's that fine line the UFL has, you know. It's like it's it wants to be a great partner in the space, and it likes to promote the fact that their players are going to
the NFL and that they're trying to get to the NFL. But you can't have what NFL Europe had. Their biggest weakness was that NFL teams sent bottom end guys off the roster there and they were mandated to play a certain amount of reps, so the actual outcomes of the games did not matter. So who cares if the Barcelona Dragons beat the run Ryan Fire or whatever. So you don't ever want to get to that point. You like what you have now, where the Stallions are angry and they want to prove to the world
the Brahmas or can't wait to knock off Saint Louis and Saint Louis. You like the fact that the games matter except for like for Chase Garberge, I don't know what he was thinking. Maybe it didn't matter as much for him. But I'm sure we're gonna hear about that. But I'm sorry, I can't watch. That's agreed. That's sinful to me, Like I get more mad. I get more mad about that stuff than like, you know, the guy messed up a little bit off the field then did something whatever.
I get more mad about that. That's like a sin against the sport. But anyhow, it is what it is. But I think until you can attract the cat somehow find a way to attract the casual fan, to sample your league and not think of it as just like these like meaningful. It's a meaningless people think it's meaningless, So you really want to get away from that and people like enjoy it for what it is because it's a it's a
quality football product. It's fun to watch. Once you get into a pick a team, get into it, you can really get into these leagues. So hopefully it comes to day where it's going to take time before you build up trust. And that's what Moose and and these guys are talking about building up trust in these markets. Last couple hearable round out. I appreciated extended
here. As always, we asked this on the stream, you know, if anyone missed the UFL pre game, you know stream and all that, but the end game for the UFL here, what is the ultimate end game? And I know you were just talking, and that's what kind of brought
it back to my mind. If they wanted to be the minor league, wanted to be like what, I don't know, I mean, what is the kind of the future here, because you want to market the players getting into the NFL, But you want to market it's an alternative, and you want to focus on the sports betting, Like I don't know, like what in your opinion, what is kind of the end game for the UFL here
as we sit going into season too. I think they want to be a viable pro sports league that last, that has the same kind of sponsorship and tension give it to them that other leagues, similar leagues have, you know, like they want to fill that craving that football fans have when the NFL is not around, when college football is not around. They want to be a viable league like the MLS. They want to be around forever. They
want they want the league to I understand. So business wise, we'll see as far as sponsors, investors, you got to make money, You got to create revenue streams. The arrow's got to be pointed upward at some point. You got to see more growth. But they actually want to be a viable like a spring there is no other football going on during the spring, you know what I mean. I know there's indoor leagues and all that. I understand that, and you have other leagues that are popping up. League
of Footballs doing a very good job. So I'd be careful when I say that, but I mean, like there isn't an NFL like property when the NFL is away, So they they want to actually be like a legitimate like what MLS is. They want to be like a legitimate league that has a strong base that follows them. Even if the UFL sometimes does better ratings than other established leagues, those leagues already have built in sponsorships, built in fan
base. All that the UFL has a hard as a hard time like you know, as any most like uh upstart leagues would have, is like making inroads in that in that vein. But that's their end game. I don't know. And I got a little bit of trouble after I got off the air with our pregame shows because I question whether or not Redbird is in this for a long haul. I had follow up. Yeah, I had somebody red Bird come out to me and say, Mike, we're we're completely in
on this, and I'm like, I don't know, you know. So it's like a little tough. I'm unsure of it because you could you say all the right things right, but and they don't have to be front and center with everything they do. Jerry Cartnell and all that they operate behind the scenes. They have brilliant people who work for Redbird Capitol. I know, but I sometimes with the history of investment firms and all that, they don't
have a tendency for long term. A lot of times what they do is they get in and they get out, and then they move on to the next thing and then maximize the investment and then make their move whether or not they see the potential for a max Everybody who's ever tried to start a spring pro football league has seen, Oh my god, what if we were like the NFL. Oh my god, if we had owners and franchise, the kind of sponsors we could have, Budweiser, McDonald's, all these Because they
don't have anywhere to there's no NFL going on. NFL can't be year round, no matter how much they try. The NFL can't be. They're gonna stretch it as much as they can, but the NFL can't be three hundred sixty five. These players it will die, you know. They if they played, they can't play one hundred and sixty two games. They can't be
done. So the reason why it is only sixteen games or whatever. So I think I think Redbird with Rock Danny Garcia with Fox, you know there they have high hopes for this, but I wonder if they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, if they don't see a potential higher ceiling, whether or not they just gracefully get out of it. Well,
and that's that's my thing. And just to kind of round out, like, you know, all season and we've seen very very support right in the Rock putting out some tweets and it was even I think it was here in the playoff games and he was like, you know, this is why we bought the air the UFL. You know, like there's some of that.
I know Danny was at the you know, championship game, right, but it really struck me as we were at the hotel, and I don't want to like, you know, but there was a lot of Fox and UFL people there, right, a lot of executives, and it just kind of struck me of like, and I understand that Danny's got a lot of projects and a lot of things going on, and the Rock wasn't there and all that, but like it felt like Danny was in and out right where a lot of those guy, you know, men, women, everybody was there
celebrating, Hey, we completed this and we made it through this and congrats on the season. And it was just interesting to me of like, well, here's a whole piece of the pie that's just in and out and I understand and there's other can people have other things going, you know, but like you would just think for even an hour that you would be there and
celebrate kind of this thing. And I'm not saying that they don't feel tremendously proud or that they did celebrate in their own way, just it just struck me as interesting, like here's all you know, here's eighty percent of the executive branch here of the government, and then you have the presidents out already, Like it just felt it was just a little interesting kind of vibe to
keep an eye on. Yeah, Dwayne's very busy. Danny Garcia really loves this concept, like she really she's really like I know, we she took a lower profile this year. We saw her all against with Danny Garcia is really happy, like you know, she's she really believes in this concept.
She really wants this to work. She's she's this is her baby because this whole thing, the XFL doesn't come out of death bankruptcy if it wasn't for her spurring on Dwayne to come aboard and then Redbird being lord by the fact that the whole Dwayne Johnson kind of thing, Yeah, let's do this.
So Danny's the reason why the XFL really came out of bankruptcy. It was funny because Fox was luring near the property too, and Fox's Fox's commitment towards this not bad when you think about it, right, because I know people have a hard time with it, especially now I'm saying this after I you know, I wrote about Eric Shanks and the whole deal with the Fridays and UFO games going to Friday, so they have a hard time believing in this. But I will say this for Fox, they were obviously in on the
XFL in twenty twenty, did a good job with it there. We know what happened there. But then they did this, they actually aired Spring League games on Fox right in twenty twenty one, followed the whole season, wrote about it all that, even the ratings, it was funny comparing that to this, and then of course, and then so twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. Fox
has been a part of like Fox has been in it. I'm not saying they're gonna be in it forever, but maybe, but they're really into it. So I don't know about Redbird. I don't know. So I mean, you got to prove it to me, because I've always been skeptical, not of their track record or the success they've had. I'd be stupid, be foolish to criticize any of that. They you know, Yankees, Liverpool,
all this stuff. They dire, great working Lebron James. I know, I know, billions of dollars, right, I get it, But I just wonder, like, how invested are they in this being a forever property? How invested are they in uh like putting in the effort and the money and making this like, uh, you weren't going to get to where you're not going to get to where you want to get to without putting investing,
and they're and putting more money into it. And then the reason why we've in this far with all this with Fox in a way in a sense is because they haven't gone crazy with spending, which is good, but at some point you need to be a little bit more strategic, and you need to swing for the fences, and they don't want to strike out, which is a good thing, right, You don't want to strike out and go
under and go in the red. But I also think like at some point they're gonna look at the property and they're gonna say, Okay, what are we are we ever going to be any more than what we are? And so and I think they can be more than what they are. They just have to put in the money. My opinion is they need to strategy. They need to sit down and strategically allocate their resources in specific areas to grow their product and to grow the visibility of their product. That's the biggest hurdle
they have. It's not the product itself, it's actual visibility. There are people that were like on social media going, oh my god, there's a UFO championship game going on. You know, they're like, what then their season just start? How as long is their season? Is it? Three weeks? So, I mean there's those kind of responses towards it. So attention is a big getting there. They're Q rating is not very high, Like you know, like amongst us, we think about it, talk about
it, all the time. Lord knows how much you've done for these leagues, interviewing everybody CFO all this stuff the last four or five years. So there's a lot of lot of people out there, the mainstream, people outside of our bubble, that don't pay no mind to this league. And then until you get to that point, not gonna be able to reel in all of them. So you get to the point where you get more people to sample and more of the mainstream crowd to watch your games and pay attention to
games and write about your games. So I shout out to anybody who covered it, like Pro Football Talk, all these guys that are out that actually tried at least a little bit. You know, it's better than nothing, because a lot of these there's a lot of nothing, trust me, when it comes to covering these leagues. So in terms of the mainstream crowd.
So anyhow, it was funny as I was flying out from Saint Louis on Monday, I guess I was getting on my plane and the guy that hosts Our Bar Trivia that knows that I do like Alternative foot you know, like he's follows the podcast. It's like, oh yeah, ye oh wow, you're up in Canada and Europe and whatever. He is from Saint Louis and we're getting on the plane. He's like, well, what do you like,
what are you doing here. I'm like, it's like you're from Saint Louis, like you should And he's like, oh yeah, yeah, that was going on, like you know you're from, like you live, you know, you're you're anyway. I'm just interested, like, yeah, you talking about the Q rate and all that, anything anything else before we get out of here. I mean, we talked relocation or are are you surprised?
I mean, I think it's probably for the best year to kind of roll it out anything else you want to touch on before we get out of here. Once you make that commitment to stay somewhere, then I think you're living and dying. You're like living and dying and maybe the eventual hopefully not
death of the league. But once you're like once you come out there and say, you know, we're gonna make Memphis work, We're gonna make Michigan work, it's kind of hard to a year later go we're going to North Carolina, We're going on Canton, We're going or whatever, unless it's an expansion thing, because if you were going to relocate, you'd have to pull the plug now and do it. But I think there's a lot of people that on the USFL side and things that like, you know, only three
markets made it from the USFL side, you know, and they really they they they're they're holding out hope that Birmingham becomes a smash it and they they're confident about Memphis and Michigan. You know, they really want to see it work. It's like if you draft some quarterback in the first round and you've had some struggles in the first two years and you don't want to give up on Sam Darnold yet or whomever. You know, you want to give it
a shit. You think that you see the potential there. So I think if they fail in Memphis and Michigan, it's going to be tougher. Like a year from now, see will know that this league has made it. If they can get to the point where they can actually expand legitimately without haphazardly relocating teams, it will know things are looking pretty good. Because that's going to send a message to to the public. Oh wow, they're going to ten teams. Oh wow, they're going to twelve teams. They're not gonna
do that just for show. They're gonna do that because hey, we got the funding. This is we're gonna make more money if we do this. You know, they're not gonna just do that because a lot of other leagues expanded like crazy. We've seen what's happening in Crazy Arena League. Let's let's come back with like one hundred teams and then everybody's folding in week two,
week three. You know, a bunch of craziness. So a lot of leagues make that mistake of expanding just for show and not being really ready to go. So they want to be ready to go. So I think this is gonna be a fascinating I think the football is gonna be good, the product in the field's gonna be good. It's gonna be interesting to see how
they schedule things. If you're doing the Friday night deal, I would do Defenders games on Friday nights since you seem to draw a younger crowd there anyway, everybody going out Friday night and have a bunch of beggers, So so maybe you can kind of lean into that aspect and then maybe more of the family kind of atmosphere for the weekends. But yeah, they're they're gonna I'm
gonna judge what they do like we always do. Read you're a tough critic and sometimes you rub people the wrong way because of that, and I don't always agree with you. It's stuff, But we care about this, and you've cared about this for a long time. So we'll see. We'll see how this journey goes into twenty twenty five. I'm looking forward to it. I think they should launch after the super Bowl. That would be my play. And that's little TVD right, We're still lit TVD and I'm digging on
that, and I've been asking, I've been annoying people about that. We don't know yet, we're still thinking about it. I think they I think it's we're definitely gonna have a different timeline next year than the March. The March they only started in late March because of the lateness of the merger being accepted and launch point all that. Last thing for me, do you think enough juice going into this season where going into next year without having expansion talk,
do you think that there's enough there if they just double down? I think so. But like again, like I said, I think they just I think they're gonna need to up their promotion in marketing to get I think got us, you know what I mean. I think we'll come back and we'll be interested in it there. Maybe there'll be some cool moves and all that, but I think you do need some added hook. So it's unfortunate expansions not on the table. I think the football product would be good.
It's I just think that I think it's more outside the bubble where their work is. The people that are ignoring them. How do you get them to pay attention so that I think that's the deal with it. We'll see. I think it's a crucial year for them at the Gate and in terms of marketing and promotion and drawing in more fans on TV and at the Gates. Well, Mike, I appreciate it extended here, Mike, all season here with Sports Illustrated now transitioning and we got the CFL stuff going on, and
Anthony Miller and everyone else. They're taking the time. He came on the show for the pregame and writing and all the work he does, and you appreciate that. We'll see, I guess said, I I would give it I would give their the league probably you know, a B plus, right, I don't know what would be your final grade for the season. I think there should be a lot of optimism. I just still hope the words now going back into these markets that you you know, go along with that.
I guess what would be your final rating for the league for this? Yeah, grade them on a curve, and then there's different grades for different areas. But I think B plus is fair, maybe a minus, you know, I'm like, like before the season started, there was a modest expectations for them at tenant twice because of the timeline they had. They we knew their ratings were going to go up. So and they did more games. You have on broadcast network television, the more eyeballs you get. It's
as simple as that. And then so it's if you're on FX or ESPN two, you're not going to draw a million viewers. I'm sorry, it have to be a really special event. So so anyhow, so I would yeah, I think B plus is fair. Sure, Well, here we go, like I said, like and subscribe, I'll play the outr here, we'll get it here, full mic episode. I appreciate it. We'll see like I say that Jason, I'll be back. We'll figure out I think Monday for to see if i'll recap, and then we'll figure out that
what we got going on here coming up in the future. We'll see you guys next h m hm