Hey guys, welcome to the Mark Cast. Read here. Getting on this today. Andrew Murray, the professor, will be joining us shortly. He's on his way home from professoring. But I you always like to get the stream started. I got a loss to talk about today, so we'll get into all that. Appreciate it. It's always nice when I log on here. We've already got that. We have a new member joining us, Christina. If you ever want to, I think it's a dollar a month.
I set it up. You can support support the podcast that way. Always have a lot of exciteing here, a lot of comments. Already excited to get into all this Zach talk and show me Mike Mitchell. I spent about forty minutes this morning talk with Mike, so I feel well prized. I've been talking with a lot of coaching staffs and everything else. Today should be a lot to get into. Like I said, waiting Professor Andrew Murroll,
get on, We'll dig through everything. Crazy Crazy Week. Really kind of debated doing the show this week, just like this was a really terrible week for the Olt football community, and I almost kind of wanted to name this episode, like, you know, State of the Union, or kind of
like state of the League just because you kind of we want it. We have players, like we're breaking news and we're sharing, and we want outside you know, out inside the insiders, and and we'll get into all that most important thing for me as we start shout out the Houston Roughnecks, sounds like everyone's going to be gone as sounds like we already had DPPs and everyone
posting there goodbye on Twitter. I know Mike Mitchell still reporting and I talked with him, like I said this morning, Supposedly that brand is going to remain. I want to get Andrew Murray's thoughts on that. You know, do we keep the rough Neck name, bring in the Gamblers staff and staff and players into that. I don't think that that is what all football season ticket holders want. We'd be curious to see kind of the reception of that.
But certainly sounds like potentially the rough Necks brand still sticking around. I know Mike tweeted that out yesterday as well, and so we'll see. But lots of staff, you know, obviously unfortunate here, timing before the holidays and all that, so just really unfortunate to hear so first and foremost wanted to make sure we got to all of that. We'll start getting the comments here. Like I said, waiting for Andrew, I will also just want to say, you know, I wanted to do this today. Run through
everything we have. You know, we have leaked emails, we have leaked text messages, we have the usfl PA like dueling press releases. We'll kind of get into all of that. There was like there's a weird thing, and I think it was set up this week where December twenty first, and we were gonna have announcements that date. You know, if you if you follow me, I never retweeted any of that, shared any of that. That's always probably a pretty good, you know, temperature check, like is
re talking about December twenty first. I know I had a lot of comments on my channel like are you gonna are you doing the December twenty first stuff? That came and went. But I think that the the heightened anticipation around that, and I think just people being off for the holidays led to a
lot of like angst here on Twitter this week. I know Scooby kind of steamrolled out the beginning posting the the ufl PA text to their members, which interesting to have a text coming out from the union that has also released in statements saying that they're not involved in the negotiations with the league. So we'll dive into that. But I thought that was curious that we have Scooby's tweet
or sea I guess it was his tweet of the text messages. But yet then the UFLPA comes out last night, and that's really when Andy and I felt like we needed to do this episode. But the UFLPA comes out last night and says we were not negotiating any of this, so how do they know what's going on? Curious with that, we had Jeff Bedett's tweets come out. He had sensed to lead to them. I have screenshots of all
that. We'll get into that. And what really kind of annoyed me was Mark Thompson, who you know, God blessed him and stellar player and stand out and he was a USB MVP and all that talking about you know, we're out insiding the insiders here and like I'm coming for all these XFL reporters jobs. Generally, the reason why a lot of leagues like the NFL have insiders is players are maybe more keen to not be releasing public information on their
own Twitter accounts. Like I said, I noticed that that Jeff had taking his down, and I just I think there's like this weird misconception of like, oh, you're all doing this for the clicks, and you're doing this for the views, and Mark, you know, if you want the dollar sixty seven, I'm probably gonna make off this stream. If you want that
to kind of out job me, send me a DM. Have someone to reach out to Mark if he is so concerned about kind of like getting the you know, getting the jobs, and kind of most of these guys, I can tell you Andy's waiting by here, streaming home from work to come on and do this show. Like I said, Mike Mitchell caring for his family, talking to me for almost an hour this morning, Like this is
not a we're doing this for the money kind of thing. We're doing this because we support you guys, we support the leagues, we support you know, the staff and everything. So I just wanted to make sure that was put out because I thought it was a very odd take when we're you know, we're we're out working the people that are doing this for free, and they're really just trying to spotlight you guys. So let's bring in Andy here. We'll get to some comments. I have, Andy, like, we
had probably twenty comments before we logged on here. Andy, are you done professoring for the day. I don't know if I can hear you. It is my volume down. We'll get Andy's microhbone work. Oh how about now there we go. I've been talking to myself. I didn't know you could be an echo chamber, which seems to be a common thing these days,
especially in this space. Andy, how are you doing here? I'll give the comments in a minute, but I need the welfare check because, like I said, I really wasn't even sure we were going to do an episode this week. I've really gone back and forth and the Marx post and stuff and the brandness posting stuff and the past post like, but I felt like, especially with the Union stuff last night, there's so many questions. People are talking like what does this all mean? I felt like we had to
get on here. So how are you feeling here? I mean, it's a whirlwind, and honestly, I'm I'm just trying to keep pace as much as anyone else is. But at the same time, there's almost a need to sort of step back and reserve myself from actually being a part of the entire discourse because it's coming from angles and we've talked about this, We've chatted
about this, This information is coming from multiple different places. I don't know if I want to use the word sources because sources is such a loose term these days, and it's really gotten to a point where it's making the picture very muddy and convoluted. So for me, I mean, it's just a matter of just keeping my head screwed on straight. I don't know how you're dealing with it, but for me, I feel that there are times where I have to sort of again step back and not really be so involved in
the entire process because I don't know what the process is right now. To be honest, Yeah, I can't imagine. And I've had a lot, you know, when we had the dueling and UFLPA of statements last night, and I'm tweeting, and you know, we have a lot of Canadian viewers and they're like, you know, I can't imagine being an outside viewer of any of this. If you're a player not involved in either of these leagues right now, if you're a casual fan not currently following any of this.
It just feels messy. Like I said, I know it's not the league's I'm not blaming the league for the vitriol this week, where I think this was very self induced of like we're pretending that this is coming this week, no one's given any indication anything's coming, and then we're upset about that.
I do not like how the league is handling some of these layoffs. I've been conversing with one of the refnecks staff here throughout the course of the day and kind of feeling like maybe we were led on a little bit of this is coming back or not. I know, I was talking with one of the USFL coaches for weeks like, hey, maybe I could have pursued other jobs at this point because we were told, you know, we'll get to
the news. Obviously, Scooby tweeting out that we've kind of known the eight teams, Mike Mitchell, you know, tweeting that out last week or two weeks whatever it was time is nebulous. But you know, we were told it was business as usual. If the merger wasn't going to happen, then the merger happens, and spoiler alert, your team's done, so I think both sides I can't imagine earnestly going forward if you're with either league here at this point as the player, coach, or staff, just of how all
of this has been handled lately. Well, I mean, that's really the bewildering thing is how much it seems like everybody's left in the dark. You know, It's one thing for the media to be kind of shut out, right for people who, as you mentioned, people who spend their time actively looking through not only rosters, not only coaching staff, conversing with people and trying to figure out where everyone stands on the issue. It's one thing for
the media to be shut out. It's another thing for the players of the personnel and that people who actually work in the leagues to be shut outs.
That's to me the most bizarre part of this is that everyone is kind of being in their own realm of not I don't want to say like not reality, but in terms of like knowing that just everybody has kind of their own knowledge of their own maybe idea of what's going to happen next, and there's no solidified factual background to any of this that people can really look to, and people are kind of going about it and trying to sort of create their
own, their own line, their own like way of figuring out what's going to happen next. And to me, I mean, that's just a disservice to people who actually work in the leagues. Again, people who are actually involved, so like they should be the ones that actually know or have at least a heads up of what's going on. But there doesn't even seem to
be that. There doesn't even seem to be an indication or a hint as to what's the fate of your team, what's the fate of your your roster placement next year, what's the fate of you know, who is your training staff, where you're going to get you know, your obviously your payments,
you know. But even like health insurance, you know, the league's statement or the union statement being put out about you know, hey, maybe there needs to be players that use their health insurance benefits before that actually runs out at the end of the year. There's like there's there's information out there about that. And again this is coming from so many different angles, but it just seems to me that it's such a scramble to figure out what's who's going
to have what in a matter of days. I mean, this is the thing. It's the calendar turns. Now we're going to start getting in the placements of contracts and who has what contract with what team, and what's organization and we don't even know who's actually like solidified, who's actually going to be all of them. I know there's a lot of reports out there, but again there's nothing set in stone. And I think that's been a plague of a lot of Spring leagues especially, but to see it happen here, it's
just it's really bewildering. Yeah, and what's weird to me is in you know, it's one thing when Mike tweets out, hey, this is what I'm hearing, you know, subject to change, and you always get people like, well that's so you keep your not so you keep your back pocket.
And then you can say, well, I said, like I would rather tweet that out than say subject to change and say like this is finalize, here we go when it's not, because I think then, and especially in this space, the narrative gets lost at like where any of this stuff came from? Right, Like Pro Football Talk tweeted out hey, there's going to be eight teams. They don't have a source in their article. I feel like that is Scooby's tweets that they you know, that they source that,
and that's they ran with the story. Now, maybe Pro Football Talk has someone else that reached out to them and said, hey, this is what's going on, But it really feels like, you know, we take these tweets and again probably going to be the case, but sitting there and saying, okay, this is a confirmed detail from the union that is also in the same week saying we're not involved in the negotiating table at all here, It's very weird to me, is that I guess where we want to
start here? Do we want to start with the Scooby staff and what'll kind of work chronologically through everything? Does that make sense? That's the only thing that's going to make sense at this point. Read. I think we're going to have to. So, you know, he tweets out here, and you know, I like Scooby, I've reached out, hey do you want to come on the podcast? And maybe I'm I'm mister anti usfl here,
but this came out, you know, how's it again? A lot of this like we're tired of the insiders and all of your like we're like you guys still going to see it? Like and it kills me now? Is with this like getting paid for Twitter and everything, like the impressions you would need to generate on all football staff to get paid even dollars on your Twitter is like, I get, I promise she was not worth the time that
you think of this people. But how's this is? Forsa JABRONI. As we're going through all this, we've been given the confirmation Michigan, Houston, Memphis, Birmingham. This goes back. Remember Mike had tweeted out the five and three saying that Houston was up in the air. I've had heard at the time Houston was in the air. Now and I said, before you
logged on, we have Houston Roughnecks staff saying goodbye. I've been talking to Evan and I know he's talking because that was the team that he covered. Feels like, at a minimum, the Houston staff is gone, the Houston Roughnecks staff, and then whether they keep the Roughnecks name, which seems very weird about. I would like to get your thoughts on, like, how do we sell well Houston. It's still the rough Necks, but now you're
going to have Curtis Johnson and whatever. I don't That to me crimes very foul. That to me makes absolutely no sense. And it's the lack of identity that really kind of plagues the whole idea of transitioning the Houston team. Look, and I understand the idea of getting four USFL teams, four XPL teams. We're going to make this an eighteen league. If you're going to downsize, you want to keep it fair and even right. But here's my
thing. I think that there needs to be some sort of accountability for who's really pulling their weight here. And the fact of the matter is the Houston Roughnecks have pulled their weight twice in two different leagues, in two different nerations of the XFL. The Gamblers have not been there since the nineteen eighties, and they haven't had any home games in this new iteration of the USFL, and they don't have any identity with the Houston team. I know people are
going to come after me for that. I don't care. Like people have not had the time and energy to put into a team in Houston in the twenty first century. So is a tiny man driving the go kart around the lake that is very upset that you right now be mad. I don't care. Like listen, I understand that people like the Gamblers. I like the Gamblers brand. I think it's cool. I think the uniforms are cool. I like the players, I like the coaches, I like the personnel that's
on there. But to then take that staff and I'm not saying, look, I don't want anyone listening their jobs. Okay, I don't want anybody listening to their jobs. I don't want anybody getting displaced. But to then take that and displace a team like the Roughnecks, who has been there and who have not only players but also again an identity established with the actual city, to just displace them and then basically paint over it and say, well,
this is this is the new Roughnecks team. And I get like they've had a new rough Next team right from the last one, but that went out of bankruptcy twenty twenty twenty three. It's just that's that's different. I've never heard of something like this where you just basically clean house and say, well, we're gonna keep the name. Here's the whole different team, Like, can you imagine another league doing that? That's that's bizarre, that's really
weird. And if you want to have a dispersal draft, fine, but if you are trying to just paint over the same property and tell me it's the same thing, I don't get it. Like that to me makes no sense that I know they're trying to keep it fair and balanced again, trying to keep it four and four, but like, why should the Roughnecks personnel
be punished in that case? What's the sense in that? And to do that to someone like Wade Phillips, who has been in the game for so long, I find that personally to be very disrespectful to him, because I think he's put a lot of energy and time into something that he quite frankly doesn't need to. He is a legend. He has absolutely no reason that he has to even stay here, and to do that to him, I think would be a horrible disservice to him personally and his legacy and everything that
he's given to Houston and his family has given the Houston bump. Phillips, you know, his father putting in all that energy and effort in Houston. I just think it's it's really crooked in my opinion. Yeah, I got a comment here. If Jacob says I think I going to bring back Wade Phillips, I said, I've heard as of today Phillips is out. That was conversations we had had and I talked, like I said, with Evan,
and he had heard similar sentiments. I know that. To me, they're like we heard back in September a lot of the coaches and staffs were put on seasonal contracts and Mike reported that and then now and at least it feels like now, you know, final layoffs kind of happened. And so I said, I think that that's where a lot of these staff feel maybe like they were led astray a little bit of like, well, we're going to bring you back, and then it's like, well, spoiler, we're
not now at all. And you know, potentially, you know, you could have went and got college shops and kind of all that stuff. We have a lot and then where was yg on here? And they never liked me too much. But the rough Necks for now, the us of other team, the Gamblers are It's that simple. The Houston Roughnecks have a non zero number of season tickets already sold in Houston, whether it's at Rice Stadium or wherever it's going to be in Houston to play. The Gamblers have zero
season tickets sold of any kind. It's also that simple, and I think that they need to look into that when they're trying to how can we alienate less fan bases. But like I said to me, this isn't the answer of rebranding the Gamblers as the rough Necks and getting rid of a lot of the people that made the rough Necks so exciting to watch right on the field, and also the coach staffs and that Houston had an incredible you know, and with a J. Smith and with Wade and all that. Like I
just I don't think you can get rid of that. It feels like a shell at that point. It's kind of very odd. Listen. In my opinion, I think this just shows that, Look, people don't understand that what happens is when you disillusion a franchise or disillusion your fans, especially the community, they take that personally. Okay, I know, people, Look, I've lost my football team and they left. Everybody didn't like the ownership
they left. I know what it's like to lose your team. But I also know what it's like when your team is being messed with, and you mess with the fans and you mess with their expectations, you also mess with their capital that they've invested into the team. You can't again try to tell them and turn around and say, well, you're buying a ticket to the Houston Roughnecks. Look maybe look, maybe they don't care who's playing. But
like that seems to me just ingenuous. I wouldn't want to buy a season ticket to a certain property and be told that it's different, or be told that everybody's gonna be gone the next season for seemingly no reason other than there
needs to be a transition in this league that's reforming. It's again, it's disingenuous, and I think for people to say that it's that simple to just kind of plug and play and just place in another staff doesn't understand what it's like to actually have that happen to your team, and also to have a team in your community be messed with so just so blatantly. I don't really get what this is really going to accomplish other than they're just gonna keep burning
bridges. I mean, that's the thing. They have to be so careful about this. You can't just go burning bridges or saying hey, well sorry, we can't bring you back but maybe next time. What next time? Who says there's going to be a next time? I mean unless the only thing that might give me pauses thinking about players is if they really are desperate and they want to stick around and come back and play. But like you're
gonna lose somebody, You're gonna lose some people in this transition. Your idea is can you either get them back or can you get other people into the fold after the fact. But again, this is built on trust, and it's just kind of to me in a way of eroding that trust. Gregor here here. Gregor is a big Stallions fan, and we'll talk about the Birmingham you know, the Arlington Hub versus the Birmingham Hub and all of that, which we I think, like have expected for a long time, but
it still seemed like it made news this week. It has nothing to do with Excel. Gregor wants to know, what do I want? It has nothing to do with Xcel versus USFL when you're already going to be giving up season tickets in Vegas season tickets in Seattle season tickets in Orlando. You need to keep markets where you have season tickets already sold, and so to me, it makes sense to placate everybody. We got to have the four and
four. But you know, we're talking like such minute money amounts, but it means so much because of the league and how frugal they're going to be. I just can't imagine them refunding those you know, fifty five hundred or whatever season tickets you're gonna have there and then trying to resell them or retransferring people. All right, that to me, I think you need to knowing you're already going to be breaking the cashman lease. They paid that in cash
ahead of time. That's kind of sunt costs. I think you need to keep the money where you have it. Into me, just doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter what league it is, it matters what the tickets you have sold. I mean, that's the thing they better get refund like that's
I know, it's not a high possibility. Maybe I don't know what their policy on that is going to be, but that seems, again such a disingenuous thing to do to people who've invested their time and money into something already that they already knew was probably like a temporary property, right Like, I mean, realistically read I don't know about you and your Sea Dragons fans or your Philo comrades, but I'm not sure what their mentality is when they're buying
merchandise or tickets and thinking, oh, yeah, this league's going to be around for so number of years. I don't know if that's how they think, but maybe it's just you know, maybe it's just a moment in the moment kind of thing. But like everybody goes through it, but at least you expect there to be some sort of continuation of it in some form, right, Like that's it's hope. You're building off hope, and if you're taking that away from people, then financially, I think you have to recompensate
people or just find a way to at least say you're sorry. I mean, that's the thing, and it just I think they're really struggling, the leagues, both of them are really struggling with how to go about it. I think that's why we just have really at the end of the day, I think that's why we haven't heard anything because I think they're really afraid to get backlash, and eventually you're gonna have to rip the band aid off because news flash, we are three months away from from the new league starting.
Well we're yeah, we're less than a hutherd days. What was it when they tweeted out? When it was the XFL tweeted out the intent whatever it was, and they had turned off the comments on everything. Yeah, we're so afraid to backlash on Twitter that we're turning off the comments and all this stuff. I think it was the merger announcement or one of the close to around one of the Yeah, it was where the teams put out and they have the comments turned off on all that. I will Elizabeth here sand as
a Seattle fan and like, I don't to me my my resentment. And I tweeted out yesterday just because I was so frustrated with all of this, and I tweeted out, you know, this is how the world ends, not with a bang, but with a whimper, and everyone like, oh,
you're but heard about the Sea dragons like that was fun. Like you said, we bought in, I mean originally we bought in in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, because we thought this is going to be a car crash and we're going to watch this, you know, with vincrick Man, and that's kind of what we thought of, Like, God, even if we get to go to one game, this is gonna be awesome, and the next thing you know, you're bought in all this, Like I'm not.
I think I went to three Sea Dragons games this year because of the crack and and all that stuff. Like I'm certainly not tied into that part of it. It's more just how all of this has been handled. That's kind of upsetting me about all that. The other question we have for jakeb but
we'll start moving to some other news here. This is good. It's interesting talking about Texas and the Houston as well, like when the Texans now are on the upswing, I'll be curious if this is another similar to like, hey, Seattle was a really good market and then you know, we got cracking and the Seahawks all that, Like then we go back again and it's not like if you do this with Houston, where you pull the rug out with these teams and then now we can watch the Houstons and c. J
Strouds the face of our community for the next decade, Like, do I need to buy into an all football team now? If I'm a textan standar right now, I'm over the moon. Yeah, that's an interesting argument, especially considering where some of these markets were most successful. Right, So, when DC started with the Defenders, the idea was, well, a lot of people were very unhappy with Dan Snyder and the Washington football team commanders are
just formally known as Redskins, all those things, all those iterations. People were just upset with because they hated Dan Snyder and they're like, I don't want to spend money on this team. Fair. But now they're under new ownership, does that narrative start to change a little bit? Although it seems like DC's doing real in terms of ticket sales, are doing extremely well still, but does that narrative change going forward? Saint Louis, you lost your
team, you don't have a team. You're upset at Stanon Cronkey. You want to basically show it to them and tell them to stick it with a sun don't shine. And that's what they basically have done. They've shown up in drugs and they supported team really well. Houston as you mentioned, you
know, the Texans weren't turmoil. They were really just really down on their luck and not operating very efficiently or in some ways ethically for a while, and yet they were able to kind of pull themselves out by their bootstraps. And C. J. Stroud's now like you know, the second coming of slice bread, you know, so now it's suddenly this is a new thing for them. So these markets, are they able to survive independently whether or
not the main football team or another product is doing really really well. Can they compete in that market? It really depends, honestly, Like again, it's such a niche thing that you'd hope that they were able to do enough background work that they're able to Again, this is why I think we've talked about it, especially stabling sing yourself in the communities, like you need to
get grassroots in these communities. You may not always have the success the team success or be the shiny new object, because somebody else is going to come along and there's going to be a new team that suddenly everybody can support. But can you maintain your brand and your your identity to the point where you're able to keep all those people within your circle and able to build upon that going forward. So that and that question has never been answered because these leagues
haven't been around long enough to answer that question. And so we really are are not sure. DC and Houston might be the first perhaps examples of seeing, okay, does the narrative change if the other team across town is starting to finally pull their own weight. Let's hear a couple more things on the Scooby. He was talking here a meeting, the final and this is when I kind of knew, like, we're not getting in any announcements this week,
like coaching meeting, we're finalizing the Memphis staff. I'm like, they're not announcing any like if they're finalizing the staff, they're not. But one of the usbl the you have football media accounts, I think, tweeted out Philippo is going to be the Memphis head coach. They're reporting that, which tracks to me. I mean, obviously losing the Breakers and he was seemed to be a very popular and successful coaching that and coach Flip taken over for
for Memphis, right because they lost? Right? Is that all? Am? I tracking that all correctly? Yeah, because he's moving over and transitioning for Todd Haley and taking over Memphis, and you're right, yeah, John de Felippo was really well regarded, especially for the health issues he dealt with and battling through that season, especially to work through with that team. A lot of people seem to respect him a lot after his tenure, and I
did too, So I'm I'm happy to see him get his shot. I just you know, for the New Orleans fans, sorry, you're not gonna get another team. You're not gonna be able to get that that additional piece. Now it's gonna go back to Memphis, which again had a market. Is it our breakers? Fran that was like, I can't wait till we us can't wait till we like loo Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. I mean, look, it's a pipe guys, I get it. It's a pipe dream. But I mean that's the thing. There's so many breathe there's so
many takes. There's so many like prediction models that I've seen over the last half not just not just the past couple of weeks, I mean like the last half year that just were so erroneous and just completely off base, but like people, I mean, look, I get it, people want to have their Like people want to have their fantasy. Okay, you want to have your dream of what you're going to get out of this or what out
of your team. I mean, look, I'm screaming from a mountaintop almost every other day being like, boy, I wish San Diego got a team, and you know it's not gonna happen, at least in the foreseeable future. I can pitch for it all I want, but like, the reality is, people get chosen over other teams for different reasons, and for a lot of players. I mean, again, people are losing their teams and that sucks, and you're not going to have people in the markets that are
going to support those teams. So I get it. But again, if you're gonna feel that way, make sure you take time out of your day to reflect upon the coaches and the players and everybody who works in the organizations and see what happens to them too, because again, this is I mean, it's really just pouring water in the ant farm at the moment. Just
to get onto this before we move on off with Scooby stuff. So you know, we had talked to him because like, we get the thing now, Okay, but you know, Pro Football Talk is reporting that it's going to be and again I'm not saying that it's not going to be eight teams, not saying all this sten I just like to always keep track of, like where these things come from when they're things official, things have not been official. Four teams survive, they come there, four teams have survived for
if not they combined. I can't get rid of this there we go. Can't get rid of this video combine whatever I have associated, I haven't informed the UFL Players Association, this formed this member. So like we saw Scooby's text, we're reporting this like again, I like just remembering where all this came from. And you know, again this is all probably going to come
to fruition anywhere. But they say that's funny, how like these reports come out and no one takes the time to backtrack, like where did this actually
come from? So to me, if this is my Florio seeing Scooby's tweets and then tweeting out hey, or you know, posting the article like hey, this is happening, well again, I think that's why people feel emboldened to just say things because they can get away with it, and they might get clout from somebody else, piggybacking off of their information, which may not
be entirely accurate. Now maybe in the moment it might be. But again, we're doing projection models here, and this is why Mike Mitchell does his reporting, and it also is able to cover himself to say, like, this is subject to change. There's things that might not come through because guess what, listen for everybody who wants to go ahead again and doubt Mike Mitchell.
He communicates with us consistently, and there are things that he shares with us sometimes that maybe indicate that certain people may know and some people may not. Like. Again, there are people who are in the dark, who are in their own sources or in their own organizations that don't know what's going on. So how in the world are we going to be able to really confidently stand here and say, well, based on this, what this has said, or what this person said, that this is where it's going to
go. I mean, there's people six months ago saying Saint Louis is going to host the XFL Championship game in twenty twenty four. How that work out?
How that work out? I mean, that's the thing there's all these I cannot tell you the number of tweets that I have saved of people who have predicted and just outright said something that was going to happen and now has either been completely just made told, or is very much in doubt because of what's going on right now, because again everything is just so much routed in the darkness. We have a couple of Commentsary, they have the Tanner praying
for all the people losing their jobs. Like I said, I started off to show that to me, is the most important paramount about anything else. Jenna. Everyone's welcome to be a Renegades fan. Jenna is always I get it, Jenna. Yeah. And then we have the comment here Gregor, who wants to know are the Stallions going to be America spring football team?
Uh? That that that is to be determined. You know, it could be the battle like if we get if we get the us because we'll get to the conferences here, we get to the USFL versus XFLU, you know, Saint Louis versus Birmingham one winner of the rule of tomorrow, Like that might be worth all of this if we get to that, Like if if June seventh or whatever, the you know whatever, the championship game is like, if it's the battle Hawks versus the Stallions, one winner rules them all.
I think that's pretty exciting. I think Saint Louis is going to endear themselves to a lot of people, and they still do because they lost their team again, that's the biggest thing they're able to and they just show up in droves. Those people really believe in the team, I think, and I think their personality is very like read. I don't know if you agree with this, but I feel like the BattleHawks are the most WWE team of any spring football team. These people are just mad man. There's and there's
always like really crazy stuff going on around that team. The fit, the fan base is really passionate. They're very outgoing. I believe that franchise sells itself the best in a lot of ways, especially in this concept. It really does. I think that's like the emblematic, like poster child of like you want a spring football team, you want the idea to survive. This is it. Birmingham, I think, from a success standpoint, has done
an excellent job. Obviously, they run their organization very well. Now have they endeared themselves to the city of Birmingham. See here's the thing. And I know there's a lot of people who will get mad at me for saying this, but I am not so sure that even their own community has completely completely sold on their existence yet. Yeah, Gregory, I know Gregory is going to come after me and a lot of people are. But look, I just don't know if they've really collected enough people to be able to say
that confidently. I know there's Birmingham fans out there. I know there are a lot of good Stallion fans I talk to sometimes, but like they the city itself, I don't know has really sold themselves on that property. And if they're gonna be America's team, I think they need to be Birmingham's team first. So that's that's my That's that's just where I stand right now. I'm just gonna put that out there. Comic Binge love this show all this, so I appreciate that. Like I said, I give a thumbs up
on the video. We had a new member joined today, which is YouTube is doing that like, hey, we'll pay you to start the membership drive. So we had Christina joint but I think it's a bug a month. But I think it ends up kind of boosting the channel up to kind of have that membership thing going. I want to get to this YG is talking about this supplemental draft. We are in a very and this is why we'll
get to Jeffidets. I got all this ready to pull up. We are in the very precarious time right now, because this is why I didn't think the twenty first thing was going to happen. Like I work, I do weddings and then I work in the corporate world, and like, to me, this week is kind of like almost a holiday week, like people are in the office. But I was getting a lot of emails like hey,
we'd like to hire you to do this video. I'm like, oh sure, let me know when you want to connect, Like we'll get back to you in the new year. Like it's those like we're going on vacation, which I don't know if you saw that zoomed the TikTok where the guy found that EOD meant end of December and the end of day. It was like
getting ready to get to work back in the new year. But anyway, they're talking about the draft next week, Like I don't see us whatever this draft is happening before an announcement, and I don't see an announcement happening on Monday, Christmas Day. I mean unless they're putting something out there on the twenty six. But then we'll get to all the jempendets and that, to me, this is a weird time now. It's almost like you got to take a snooze break until the new year. Well oh yeah, well that's
one. And also here's the thing. If you're going to have a supplemental draft, well then you would be petitioning to average or at least you'll be trying to put it out there a little bit more. I don't know about that now if the exit failure, not like, we'll send you an email when it's done. This is the world. Okay, So here's here's the other concern with us too, is the problem is is if you're going to have these events, then are you going to be able to actually advertise them
correctly. I mean that's the thing. Like we talked about the dispersal draft. I mean, we have the concept of the dispersal draft. Do we even know? It could be really cool though, yeah, we don't like that it could be so cool because it's like and that like to me, they just sorry to catch off. Like to me, the dispersal draft is even better than like the supplemental stuff last year because you're like, these are
all these all stars from the other teams. It's like survivor. Also, like who's making the cut Like that to me is almost a bigger deal, Like who's going to get left out? Who's going to get on these teams of all these superstars that just happened to be on the wrong side of you know, Thanos to snap. Well, that's the thing. I think the
idea is really cool. I just don't know if they're actually going to put it out there because the problem is is is you're still trying to piece together or find out how to communicate the message to your fans that hey, we're an eight team league going forward and this is what's going to be. Like they're still afraid of even just announcing their existence and so you can't even do that. Then I don't expect you to put out any information about an aspersal
draft. That's something that would be like after the fact of or just let last moment it happening, and then suddenly they tell all the players, oh, Yeah, by the way, you're on this team. I just want
to let you know. Okay, now we'll put out the information, put out the roster list, like they're not going to actually advertise them, and that to me is a huge disservice to the idea of the league if you're going to do it going forward like read it just seems to me like they're not even like like they're not even confident to announce their existence because they're worried
about what's going to happen when they do. And that to me, that to me is such an undercutting of the entire process of actually being a part of this new idea or being an actually merged league because they're afraid of stepping on people's toes, which inevitably you're going to do. They've already done, and you're gonna upset people like that. Just accept that, But then I
feel like they almost can't. Yeah, they're they're paranoid about that. And a couple of thoughts on this and the one you know, we're talking about the draft timeline and we can pull up and this is all VJ. Russell via like of course, like we're tracking and we're tracking the narrative here va j Russell who's been on the show. He's a DC guy. Uh via Jefpidest tweetsch we deleted, but I have I have them if we want to, you know, if you need, if you want the proof in the
plane here. But like we're Mike, Mike's stocked in our group chat and like I said, I talked with Mike for a long time this morning, like this is gonna be a rollout, right, this is gonna be a rollout. We're gonna have multiple days and all this stuff, like this isn't gonna be so just to me that it's then in five days, we're doing a preliminary draft. But we still, like, I think you got to
get all this other stuff locked down. We've already seen what's going on with these players and tweeting and the jefpidets and Scooby right, so the world, Like, I think you need to get this stuff locked down. And as you said, it's so weird to me this we're so afraid to upset anybody like at this point, you like, and it's never been understood to me, and like with everyone with Danny and the Rock and all this involved, I've watched wrestling most of my life and for years and years, Wrestling and
Vince mcmahn tried to appeal like, we gotta get more casual fans. We gotta get more like we gotta advertise on NASCAR. We gotta get Bob Barker on the show, we gotta get Jeremy Piven on the show. We gotta get all this up because we need Meanwhile, kind of neglecting the hardcore fans, right spoiler alert, it's your hardcore fans are gonna be the ones to go, Hey, Andy, come over, let's watch this thing tonight.
I got this thing going on, like it's not gonna be They're gonna come out and go, it's the UFL and we're getting rid of these teams but were united and it's gonna be the XFL versus the USFL, and like all that. I think you get a little bit of a casual bump for that. But what you're doing in the meantime is, and we've said this on the show, and you and I and Max and everyone like, you're eroding that hardcore fan base. So you're gonna need to rely on to kind of
be your gorilla marketing. It just is never equated to me that they don't understand that. I don't get it either, And I don't think they think that they can start big, they can start macro and then work their way down. That's not how it works. You have to start with a face and then move your way up. And I don't understand why they have never really been able to connect that idea either. It's it's perplexing, and again
it's a bit disrespectful. I know that's a strong word, but it is a bit disrespectful to the people who've been there and done their work and actually been involved with this entire process. And people have been so patient throughout all of this. I mean, God knows, you and I both and our entire media chat have just been through the ringer trying to get parts through all this information and trying to figure out what's going to happen next, and going
through all of it. I mean, there's no there's no just like kind of stepping away from it for a while and then coming back. I mean, this has just been day in and day out trying to figure out what's going to happen next, and it's just so it's so patience testing and that's something that you don't really need to do or should do for your fan base or for the people that you want consuming your product. So I get the idea of trying to appeel to more casual viewers. I know all of them,
I mean, they're all macro minded people, all of them. I mean all the XFL and the USFL are both that way. Now. I know the USFL does their own their own budgeting and their own way of approaching it from the hub model. But like it's Fox like Fox. Of course, the Fox is looking at this as saying why why aren't we making money? Or what you know, Dwayne Danny and the redboard CAPA, we're looking at and saying why aren't we making money? Because guess what, they already
do make money in a lot of other ways. So that's going to be a macro mindset. And to me, that sort of is why maybe this isn't working and why and just stay really quick. I mean, Vince McMahon, for all of his for all of his faults, I think understood at a core level what it meant to have a core fan base, to have people to start with, and to be able to work off his home market
he I think knew how to grow it. Did he grow it into a huge property, did he work with wrestling and make it a global phenomenon. Yes, but he had people to start with and a grassroots to start with, and that's where it ultimately comes from. A couple of comments here and then I want to get to some of the and I think I need to go into the Jeff's tweet Jeff Bedet's things to get kind of a little bit
more on that. Dave has been asking a lot about the announcement again, like this was kind of self inflicted, the wounds on the XFL community. It was funny to me that a lot of people tweeted out like oh yeah, but Scooby posted and Jeff posted, so it's okay. It's like, well that's that wasn't what like no, like people said there was like Brandon said like sorry, like sorry, like Brandon made videos that is coming this week, Mark made videos there's coming this week. I did not because it
wasn't coming this week. So like getting Jeff's tweets out, that doesn't like that doesn't mean that that was correct. Like I hate these false it is of all that stuff anti talking and the mini drafts is so insignificant. I agree with that, but I think you need to get these player whatever figured out and under you know, league contracts and NDAs and kind of all that
stuff before. Like, I don't think we can do a dispersal draft next week, not have everything announced and then be like now you got everyone running around like I've been cut from all these teams or this has gone Like I just think you're gonna get further further out because this information is going, you know, out to all of these players. Uh. Pat saying, do we not think it's done already? If like the DPPs, like what what makes you feel like this is figured out? Like like there's not one ounce
of anything in the last three months. It has made me like I have the dms from the coaching staffs that say, like, we feel really jacked right now. This sucks like like nothing about this feels like it's gonna be you know, figured out that way. Uh, And then you can if you want to have any of this, Tanner hopefully they'll budget a little bit
more for advertising. Uh. You know we're talking and the I think it was Jeff's tweets or we're talking about the player pay very similar to kind of the XFL, the fifty three hundred a week or whatever, and players up in arms like, we're not going to get paid more money. Like, no, when you go from two leagues to one league, you're not going to get paid more money. When the AAF went away, Vince McMahon didn't raise rates for the XFL players. He goes, well, now I can
pay them less because there's nowhere else to go. Any comments on any of that stuff, And no, I mean it was a little bit of get some red rance read rage. I expected that come earlier, honestly. I look, no, I mean that's the thing. It's the idea is that they're not going to downsize and then suddenly pay people more. That's not how
it works. Usually when a merger happens, or when anything like that happens, people are trying to cut costs and trying to figure out what they don't have to spend money on first, and that's the most efficient way for these leagues to operate if they realize they don't have to add more money and put more money into the resources. They're trying to consolidate so that they can survive going forward, but paying higher prayers player salary for them. Isn't the most
economic model of keeping that going forward? Is that a Now is that unfortunate for the players? Yeah? Of course. I mean the unions would probably argue the same thing and saying, well, now you have more capital, why don't you use it on your players? But that's not That's not how this is not how the business is going to run. You can argue for that. You can fight for them, of course to do it, and they should and they should, but they should. I don't mean to be
cursed about it, but that's just not how it works. Yeah. So I well, I just think it's gonna be hard to dissuade them from thinking otherwise if their whole their whole model here again is keeping it in house and having everything be able to save money and cut corners at certain spots. I mean that's how the USFL went, right. I Mean there's that mental again. What's the mentality inside of the building, that's the thing. What is
it between both of these we're still trying to figure out. I think that's also why we're not sure what's going on here, because sometimes there's just this fusion of both ideals that were so different in how they approach things now. I know Daniel Rocket ideas of maybe doing a hub themselves last year, they didn't. They deviated from that and they wanted to have all eight cities, and maybe they went to the USFL table and told them said, hey,
this is not gonna happen. We're gonna try and do it all eight teams. Although then we heard things. I mean, that's the thing. You know, we heard things a few months ago saying well, there's gonna be hubs now, and there's gonna be twelve or ten teams and they're gonna do this. It's like okay, Well they're gonna have six hubs, and it's like okay. And then that didn't happen. Again, it didn't happen because
that wasn't solidified. It might have been a conversation inside of the circle at that time, but it was not a decision that was set in stone. So no, I mean, that's the thing, Like, do I think they're gonna all gonna try and save money, Yes, But do I think they're going to be able to mix all over their ideas together and make it work. I mean, again, it's it's this just weird fusion that's going on between both sides. So to be concerned about getting more money as a
player, I don't that should be your concern. I don't think that's a major concern for them because I think that's not factored into how they're gonna try and run their busin this going forward. I know this, and this seems something I was talking with Mike today and about kind of maybe the you know, the timelines and level of concern with both of these leagues, and you know, coming to this merger right now, because we've talked this certainly isn't
a merger out of strength. This is a merger out of survival. And uh, you know, it's like you're in science class and you're paired with your least favorite person in the world, and you're like, you need to figure out how to do this thing, and you're like, but that way, none of us want to be in the situation together, but we need to do that. Let's get to Jeffrey's little emails here, because this was
interesting. So this is this was kind of the big carefuffle yesterday and jeff deleted all this, which, again, if you're like a player in one of these leagues and this is why you don't do this because I can't imagine that this was popping about us. But this, according to uh from from Jeff. This was from the director of team operations for the Vegas Vipers to
him. So take that for what it is, Like, yes, it's it's it's an official XFL like email, But I don't know the insights to the director of team operations, who's in charge of like travel and lodging for a team that is not making the merger is going to be a part of
this. So that's why, like I didn't tweet all this stuff out yesterday because if I'm going to talk about this and we're gonna have this on the screen, I want to give the context to that because I think this could be this could be like I don't think it's very challenging to be like, well, they're getting rid of eight teams, so they're probably going to have to do a draft with the other age and they're probably going to have to
you know, protect your Like I think it's easy to prognosticate all of that, but just this is not this isn't like this was sent out from rush brand into team officials, like this is what we have going on. Yeah, I mean for most players who are involved in these discussions, or at least trying to be involved in these discussions. I mean, it goes without saying you have to be careful about sending out information like this and just posting it for everybody to see. And again, it seems to me the thing
is, that's a good point by David. I mean, could the email be fake? I mean that's the thing, Like he's something from a month ago that changed sorry, you know, like it could have been and now it's not anymore. Is it information that just yeah, it's it's so it's
so fluid and it's something that's just going to continue changing. I mean that's the thing I think again, it's all this fluid information and players can say they have their ear, you know, nail to the floor and say, oh, we know what's going on, we have the beat on this, we know what's happening. You know, Mark Thompson would like to tell us how much of a journalist he is. So, you know, I just
don't get why the need to post out some of this information. Again, if it's something that was passed around a month ago and then suddenly got to your doorstep, and you think that this is the final version of it. It may not be. That's the thing. So I can't take any of these dates slip solidly? Do they do? They sound good to me? I mean sure, the training camp dates sounds solid. I mean the calendar makes sense. Again, that's not set and stone. So why is that
something that would necessarily be solidified here? I mean, the details and the money, all of this is not something that has I don't think any of it has been solidified. So that's why I don't get what's the purpose of it being put out there by a player who thinks that they're doing the community
of service when in fact it could just be old information. Yeah, cloud yg here jeffided is in the players Union, and guess what the players union put out in the stand But they have not been involved in the negotiations with the league. Like what do you like? I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm trying like we I have like I had that this is probably like we we're in this, like we're and all this kind of stuff,
like we're not involved in any of this. And so yes, I understand that, Like I get just I want to just when you put out things. It's like, this is confirmed, these are confirmed, we have confirmation from the league. Like it's just I want to just take this might all be correct, but we just you gotta take it one step at a time. Here, Mike Mitchell has said he has not heard that these are the divisions XFL versus USFL at these conferences. I think that would be cool.
I don't know if that is what it is. To me, that makes sense, and you call it the United Football League again, all of these things make sense. It's just contextualizing and kind of knowing where we're at. Read. I don't think I've ever seen a union turf war. That is a new thing for me too. We'll get into that. Yeah, that that to me was that was bizarre. I've never seen something like that.
But I mean, that's the thing. The union statements being put out about what has been involved, who has been involved in why they've been involved, even that information seems to be superfluous. And again like, yes, Jeff, but that's part of the players union. They necessarily had those members being part of the negotiating table. Again, that seems to be very much up in the air. So again, I don't know how you can really take that as gospel at this point. Yeah, Scott has and this is good.
It just seems like we're taking things out of assumption. In a couple of texts, there's no official say again. And that's why, like, I like, I really struggled this whole week. If I'm in texting Andy, like do we want to do some this week? Do we not? Like how do you feel? Because I just I don't want to be but I felt like there was so much stuff this week that we needed to just get down here and say like, this is at least where we're at, and this may or may not be true, but just like this is the
information we have, and this is kind of how I'm processing it. The things we know for sure, Roughnecks players you know, or Roughnex excuse me, rough Next staff publicly thanking the league and saying like my time is done in the XFL. That is something we can work with. Some of this other stuff, you just got to be a little scrutiny. I just wish there was like some sort of I don't know, State of the Union address or something of that nature where there's just somebody from one of these leagues.
I don't care who it is, but or the Commercial League or whatever, somebody comes out and has some sort of statement or is able to mention something in the nature of here's what's going on, here's what we can tell you. Here's things that if you want to ask us questions, we'll be happy to answer them, but we can't tell you everything that's going on right now.
Like just something like that, you know, or be able to get some sort of line of communication, as opposed to rush brand and blasting emails out to everybody and telling them that there's you know, I mean, the business as usual, you know, monocer. I mean that was that that was one of the most ominous things that we've seen in the last few months is people being told, well, we don't know if you're gonna be around, but anyways, keep pretending that you're going to be around for them your
foreseeable future. You know, like there's not even again, there's not even like a forethought so forethought of like what's going to happen when those people are now out out of the job and you have no words or anything, no media or anything to really back up what what you proclaimed was going to happen going forward. David, you ride on d this is the world we have. I haven't had Jason Eric excuse me, David too many comments on David
Hopeier, subscribes and all that stuff. I haven't seen David comment a lot. But yeah, this is kind of We're rare. But like even email, the new league may be creative by the beginning of January. Given this, I would highly recommend the doctors is boys be booked if you have paid medical, like the new league maybe maybe created just again and like the pay makes sense and if you you know, Andy and I did a I mean it was a three hour episode, but we did like an hour and a
half deep dive of all the pay structure and all that stuff. Back with the XFL and the USFL back in twenty twenty, what would that have been three Like, uh, you know, it's going to be a mixture there. I'll be curious what they do with the union and I want to get
to that before we get out of here. We can do I don't know how long anyone has time to spend on this today, but you know, uh, how do you unionize where you have four teams that are in the union and four teams devoted not to be in the union with the XFL. I don't know what you do with a quarterback pay where the XFL famously paid up for you know, the Bret Huntleys of the world, and the USFL did not, and you know mcaud Beuthel Thompson got the same raids as everyone
else. Like, there's a lot besides just is it the roughnecks or the gamblers. There's so many minute details and all of this, Like that's why some of these emails like this can't all be solidified right now. I just don't believe that. Well, I mean, like again, the ominous part of this, aside from the maybe created part, which is just to think
of it as a fifty is a coin flick proposition is just wild. But also again the word highly as you see in that sen that says, given this, I would highly recommend that all doctor's appointments be booked as soon as possible by the end of the year to ensure we are covered if you're if you have medical paid for by the XFL, like be able to actually be covered in your healthcare costs, like I was mentioning at the top of the
show. I mean, just the idea of like well, Okay, the health Insuran is gonna run out in a week, Like that's gonna be gone just poof, it's over. I mean that that seems like a very just
ominous notion as well. Again, they've mentioned things here in this email about there being team players that are being released and being able to sign with a USFL team, which again there were reports yesterday about potentially or reports I started putting the quotations ideas that there may be a USFL and exible division, which I've I thought was just a pipe dream and the thought, but like there was no mention of that actually being going like going forward, that those were
going to be two separate divisions. I don't even know if that's true. Like when you say a team or players signing in this league, what moniker, are you even referring to it as like again signing with a UFL team, Like even that part is just completely up in the air. Again with like even the namings of these leagues or if they're separate or if they're divisions
or what. This is so all over the place. Well and even like and gifts where this feels like it's operating where they have here at the bottom, you know, players, if you're dissolved from an XFL or USFL team, like you're not going to be able to re sign with the other league, Like you got to wait and see if you're picked up by one or the other. Like I don't, I don't. I guess is that competitive
advance? Like I don't understand the mentality behind that, Like if you're cut and another team, okay, well you can only be reassigned the first draft by if it's another USFL team, and then in the super supplemental Draft, you can be like there's just so much there where these rosters are already pretty full. If you're you know, if you're the the hell is even made? You know, if you're the Stallions here right? Like you are you
bringing in another thirty guys of this supplemental draft? I don't know? And why is there a competitive clause there in the first place? Again, in terms of like signing with these other teams, I thought these were supposed to be again emerged entity. They're all under the same umbrella, Like what are we arguing for here? This is supposed to be a collective effort of these
players going back and forth. It still doesn't even seem like that's completely set in stone, like there's a solidified notion that they are just going to be able to ship hop ship over to another team. And like you said, I mean these rosters are very filled out. You know, we cover a lot of players who have had their shots in their training camps and be able to get into the NFL or the CFL. But I mean there wasn't like,
you know, a mass exodus of five hundred players. I mean a lot of these people are still around, a lot of them are still under contract and they're still being placed on these rosters because they weren't able to make an NFL team or even go to another league. So I mean that's the
thing I don't understand where all that player movement is going to be. The dispecial draft is again, like going back to that is a cool idea in terms of reallogating some of these players, but there's only so many people that can go to other teams, and the top end players will but you know, again the mid level and lower tier. I hate to say those words because I think everyone has their own level of talent, but you know what I mean, like the non star players are going to be I don't know
where they're going to go, like that's the thing. And so they're talking here, you know, so prior to twelve to twenty and if you can see my curser prior, Tolder said, the XTRABL teams will protect forty two players only on their rosters or release, so that what are they carrying right now because they have up to ninety But it's not like the number here over
the summer. This like I don't see this happening in five days over Christmas and then coming into a supplemental draft terre on the twenty like that's or else. That's a really terrible, terrible way to run a business. Here again, that's an email blast, right, that's just telling people, that's just laying people off via email, and that again is very disingenuous. The fact that you even tell people that that's what's going to happen. I mean,
I can't imagine it being the week of Christmas. I mean that that to me just does not seem the shoe does not seem to fit. And I don't understand why that why that's the idea. And if that is the idea, that's that's awful, Like that can't be the way that they're going to announce this to everybody, they have to at least wait until after the new year. But again, I think because of the situation with all the contracts running up until the end of the year, I think that's why there may
be this like desperation to get something done. But that's kind of how the email wards it. I don't know if that's necessarily Again, what's happening on their end of you know, their side of the the barketing table, and if that's really what's going to actually transpire here in the next week. Again, it's just such a mystery, even like going into yesterday was such a mystery, like there was ideas of what could happen, and then nothing really
happened. But then there was a lot of people who were putting out their own reports or tweets almost like people were just putting in their own like it was like mad lips, Like there was just your choose your own adventure here, fill in the blank, see what you think is gonna happen, and this is what's gonna this is what I want the outcome to be, not actually any solidified information. Yeah. The other thing I'm just curious with like
getting into this stuff finalized just fiscally for next year. I don't know that if there's any benefit to locking down some of these contracts and stuff and and yeah of next year, just in terms of kind of getting all that stuff figured out. I just the end of this and then we'll get to the the union stuff. This is you know, then there's they're dissolved and I canna be able to be released prior with all of that, then there's gonna
be a super dispersal draft. Do you not need to do anything? I don't know, Like I don't want to Jepidat's like a friend of this going out of one and again this is this was probably accurate or at least whatever. At some point I just feels I don't know any other thoughts on this before we get to the union union message. Well, that's the first time I heard also the terminology super dispersal draft. I'd not heard that term.
I had not heard that term before. I mean, it makes it sound like a grand sale, you know, but I had not heard that. Zach Trum, we'd heard dis dispersal draft, but super dispersal draft was not in the lexicon. And our discussions up to that point, I'm really curious about the unprotected players, Like, is this a free agency thing where it's like restricted and unrestricted kind of deal with these players in terms of who they're
being released to and where they're being released. Is that part of their contract negotiations in terms of their being in the E merged entity. I don't know how that works. And again, the set number thing is really interesting. It says on this date, the USFL n XFL teams will draft twenty three players that compete the training can roster. How big is the training camp roster? How big is that in comparison to the number of players they have right
now? Like you said, is it gonna be forty five players? There are gonna be more? How many are they gonna be able to add on? Why that specific number at this exact iteration? How many people are the expecting to be gone at that point from the rosters that are already there? How do they know that number? That's the thing? Can they confidently say that? Well in all of this, even when it was just back with the XFL stuff where it was like, Okay, we're doing the showcases and
then we're going to do the rookie draft right, the rookie. The college draft was the USFL, right was the rookie. We're going to do the rookie draft, and then we're going to do the showcases, and then we're going to do an October draft, and then we're going to do another draft
after the NFL, and then we're gonna do one in January. Like and obviously that all kind of got you know, pushed to the moon here with all this stuff, but like, I don't know how many unless you're just you're and unless it's you know, where the USFL, like they can just kind of sign and cut players whenever they want. Like, it just always seemed weird to me that we have so many floodgates here, like, Okay,
now we're gonna do this one. Then we're gonna do like you're filling three spots or like, how many spots are we you know, we're drafting twelve players, we're getting everyone together on a zoom call the draft. I just to me, it always seemed a little too you know, I kind of okay, trust the process, you got a good product on the field, but it always felt a little interesting to me. Again, I argue, what process. I mean, that's that I don't know what the process
is. And again I don't think people who are involved here know what even is the process here, Like it's the process of communication. Even seems to be complete breakdown mode for all these people involved. So I don't know. The numbers just seem so so nebulous. I don't even know where to start with that. But the union information is really interesting and where it's coming from. All right, So let's get to this. So then this is kind of last big and then we'll do comments and stuff. Again, I don't
know anyone's I got. We have a birthday party tonight for someone that I really don't want to go to. So I'm kind of here. Whatever we so this and this came out last night. So this was the Unit Football Players Association, so this was separate than the UFLPA, right, So I got to put all this stuff together. So, yeah, this is the Kenneth Pharaoh and Nick Temple kind of Ryan Cave and all that stuff. Oh, it would help if I put it on the screen. We're on the
a form you of important decision. Basically, they are party ways with the steel workers union. They didn't feel like over the last few months, you know, have Football Players Association has been shut out from participating in the involvement with the USFL and XFL merger. We know right now is that these huge major companies resulted in the fifty percent cuts almost twenty million CUP from player salaries and there's been nothing added. We've talked about that, not getting more money
to mitigate all that stuff. We've engaged in extensive discussions, consultations, evaluations to be sure we'll make the best option. So that's kind of the first one. That's the Kendeth Pharaoh. And because it gets it gets weird here because this is kind of the non this is the non official, like we went down to Birmingham and worked with a lot of this stuff, you know, back with the kickoff and kind of all that. First, what your reaction to this, first of all, the kind of s feral kind of
action. Well, I mean, he's clearly saying that there's just no level of communication that's really been had as far as like the negotiation part of it, and again as far as the whole partnership with the steel workers union again not being able to tie that into this whole thing. That's really interesting to me because I thought, I mean, how long ago was that partnership farm
like over a year ago. It was right after I mean, because they were down there for the kickoff and Kenneth was shaking hands in Birmingham to you know, the inaugural kickoff, and then it was came in later and then they both did it up in the summer then, right. So I guess in the interest of maybe it not in not being compatible with what they're trying to accomplish here, I'm not sure that's really what Kenneth is sort of getting
at. I guess maybe there's just differences in terms of how the negotiated. I mean, again, the steel Workers Union is incredibly powerful and it has been for quite some time. If you look in at the history of it, it's one of the strongest unions in the United States. But I guess maybe the vision just wasn't really shared there as far as what they're accomplishing here.
I mean, it seems to me like I think there just might be frustration on Kenneth Ferrell's part about actually being able to have a seat at the table and being able to actually be participating in these negotiations. So that was a very interesting statement that was put out last night by yeah, kind of abrupt too. Yeah. So then then then this is from the This is from the official So this is from the UFLPA. Is it brought to our
attention to the false statement? This is spread by individuals who are not have never been at the bargaining table with our UFL USFL player negotiating committee. These individuals have not aided in the day to day operations with our union. You know, do they have any insights on the current bargaining between the players in the leagues? The countless hours spatlier pelayer representatives to secure player protections not be
overshadowed from this. This is a Darte's Jacobs say, union president. So now we have the official UFLPA USFLPA arguing with the UFL. I'm just I'm kind of confused, and we're all like, what we're trying to accomplish here?
Okay, Well, I mean this is very separatist, right, So this is part of the USFL labor negotiations, and they're saying about how they're going to be adding on the XFL players in the future as part of this, which again I go back to, like, Okay, we're going to have separate divisions here again, and this is the separate unions that are involved here, But for them to just kind of come out and just basically say that whatever statement was put out by Kenneth Berrell or whoever, I mean,
it's almost written in a way that like as if he didn't put out the statement, which is really strange. I'm sort of trying to piece that together as well, but just this sort of complete disregard for that announcement. Just I mean, this was like what minutes after that statement was put out.
It was very close to each other in terms of time. I was following it on my timeline, and then suddenly like this came out maybe an hour later, and suddenly it just almost overshed, this kind of overshadowed what the other one was talking about because it was just sort of saying, hey, disregard whatever that was being said or whatever information that that person doesn't It's almost like saying that person wasn't involved here or hasn't been involved in the process the
entire time. Which again, where do these two ideas and these two visions of align here, because I don't not sure what overlapping Here's who's saying what
in terms of who was involved in who wasn't. Like there seems to be as almost one side saying I wasn't involved, other saying saying, yeah, you weren't involved, and you shouldn't say anything about it, and yet you never should be like and I love Kenneth and he's been on the show anyone that he's on the show multiple times, but like they have the whole thing a couple of years ago because again, the this the the United Football Players
Association is Kenneth and them kind of the leftovers from the XFL. Okay, you know people when that league went, you know, belly up and you know you're stuck in hotels and we're trying to get home, and like they kind of helped you you know, not at the time but kind of unionized but beforem a grouping of hey, let's let's help these guys figure out what's
going on. And when the bankruptcy and all that stuff happened, like okay, this is where you need to sit them in your stuff, or hey guys, there's a deadline this day to make sure you submit, like to get all the paperwork together. So that was that. Then they were down getting getting a part of this UFLPA. But now, yeah, it just it seems like they don't want to be involved in that, and I just
I don't. Oh. Then the other thing was was with Kenneth. You know, they're quick to react when they were saying that the CFL players working to play back in the delayed season in twenty twenty one. So like Kenneth's been known to kind of like hop at stuff before and kind of put out things without necessarily thinking all the way through it. Like, I don't know if that's part of it, but again, this just further marks to me I'm going with the UFLPA, am I alone in that that that's kind of
where the ones that are actually working with the negotiation. I mean, I think the problem is the timing of which the statement comes out and the day works, so much information just flying around from so many different sources and players and media and all kinds of different people. I think for Kenneth to kind of jump in here and say give his piece and say what was going on, the timing of it is very odd, as if it's like he's kind of trying to not I don't want to put words in his mouth or really
speak too much of him. Because I think him coming on your show, he's been very insightful, and I really have a lot of respect for Kenneth Ferroll and what he tries to accomplish as a union president, as somebody who wants to represent players who in this space don't have a lot of rights.
But it did seem to be a bit of a forward statement in anticipation of what other people might be saying about the union's involvement here, and I think maybe that was a response to what was being put out by Jeff Biddett earlier. Perhaps, I mean, there's just so much information. I think the problem here is that again I don't know if this is really based on real interactions that Kenneth has had or a lack of interactions if he's not had any
of those. But us the usfl PA here, I think it's just trying to not have someone else try to start a fire, and whether or not Kenneth Ferrell starting it for the right reasons or not, again, I don't I don't think his intentions are misguided, but perhaps what information has been out coming out here is not really getting across in the way that it's supposed to in terms of actually informing anybody or enlightening anybody of what's going to happen going
forward. I think the USFLPA is maybe kind of saying, hey, hold your horses here, like let's let's not jump the gun and try to say what's what's happening may or may not happening at the negotiating table. So I think that's why it comes off as sort of almost pulling back the reins a little bit on on on Pharaoh and the and the other players union. Yeah. So then we finally had this and I Pat tweeted this out and I
just felt like, what's going on here? Like no idea? So then this is from the vice president of the right and this was just to get all this on here. Devin Gray, I wish it formerly. I wish it formally clarify certain matters. Was imperative to know. Kenneth Nick and in the UFLPA were never affiliated with the union, nor do they represent any players during the CBA negotiations. Their roles were exclusively as organizers hired by the steel
workers tasked with the United Unions, rather than participating in one. It's it's essential to recognize their internal objection of assuming leadership within the union evident in the timing of this official statement, notably their exclusion of Senia negotiations, has led them to seize this opportunity to undermine the dedicated efforts of the board, the board that tiressly worked to secure optimal outcome for players. The commitment that should
be overshot should not be overshoted by misleading information. You UPA's intentions and statements of your self serving and misleading and contributing unnecessary chaos and confusion to an already complex situation. I'm stepfast in my stance against the UPA's claim of inaccurate salary information. So like, so are some of the things that came out already? Like are those misleading with this hour? This is where I lose a
narrative. I mean, I think it's just this one is just completely disregarding it all together and just saying this is misinformation. That's just causing the waters to become more muddy than they already are. So it seems to be this is a lot more aggressive than the usf LPA statement. Obviously, Devin Gray is very much putting his stick a stamp on the ground and saying no, this is not what's happening, and Kenneth Ferrel does not have any any sense
of what the situation is and whatsoever. So at least that's how I read it. I mean, it seems to be a lot more aggressive in that way. I am interested in the part of the last paragraph saying that their intentions and statement of your self serving and misleading and contributing unnecessary chaos and confusion to our complex situation. I'd argue that's the case for a lot of people in this space. Honestly, in the past twenty four hours, that was
abundantly clear that that is happening from a lot of different angles. So I think I at least sympathize with Devin Gray in that way that I think that's going on in general. That's something that's been kind of been swrolling around anyway, So I think, again it's I want to see I would like to I would like to get mister Faraoh's comments further and see what he was really saying. And obviously he's probably gonna have a lot to say about this.
I don't know if he'll say a lot about it in the next week, but at least it seems to me that he was under the impression that his involvement was not as he wasn't as involved as I think he wanted to be. And I think the other statements are saying that there's really no involvement to be had here, or that he ever thought or if he thought he was ever involved, that he really wasn't. Yeah, So this is why.
And we'll get some if you have questions here, I have some start and if you if you have any other questions, we'll kind of get to it before we get out of here. Shit, we've had great like seventy five people. I think we had as much as eighty people watching at one point here, So you know, thumbs up, leave your questions here, we tackle anything before we get out. Yeah, there's been And again I partially blame you know, this December twenty first, I partially blame the delay from
you know, September and kind of any meaningful announcements. I partially blame just I think people being home and having time kind of on their hands right now. But there's been a lot of kind of jockeying for positions right now. And that's why, like you know, sometimes and I get and and got we got to put the things up right away, and we gotta just do that, you know, And I do do the shorts, and they trademark
you not a football league or whatever. Like I get all this stuff, but like sometimes you really got to take a second and hopefully we've at least done a little bit of this today of like at least walking through kind of where everything came from, kind of the different motivations with all that stuff. I have no motivation, honestly, except just kind of informing and having fun
and kind of communicating with the people that I do. Like we talked at the top, this certainly isn't a money rich endeavor here, but you know, like the people I get to interact with and being able to talk with Andy, that's kind of like my thing, and making sure everyone's on the same page, like thoughts on this, and then we'll get to questions.
But like just we're really prone to this, Like we got to run online and post a second anything comes out, and I just I want to make sure that you know, if anything, this was a kind of a step
back from that to that. I mean, that's the thing. People are just drawing the car before the horse, and they are also just trying to get out out of it, because again, I don't think a lot of people know what's going on, and they want to I guess supply some sort of reassurance, but I think that just causes more chaos and it just creates a lot more confusion at the end of the day. Like Devin Gray was saying about the the UFPA statement, I mean I felt the same way about
any news that's really been coming out about this. It just it doesn't help people, and it really doesn't help people who are in are really in the know of what's going on, not like you and I and the group chat are really so tied into I mean, we're trying to be as in as possible to know what's going on. Even for us, it's hard up for us to keep up. How do you think people feel that their livelihoods are
here at stake? As far as what are they trying to get out of this league and what, you know, what's their future going to be? They don't know. So I think putting out that kind of information is reckless and it's harmful and it really hurts people who actually need the correct information, and you're just causing more just I mean, more headaches, really for people to deal with and trying to figure out what's what's next, and it really
just causes a lot more stress in this situation. I think you've made a great point where it's you know, my life is fine, your life, you know, your professory and wedding videography, and here, you know,
I say, for the the industry collapsing, like my life's good. You know, we're kind of blessed at this point, you know, to be able to do this, and I'm glad that your work is picked up as well, that we're able to kind of do this for fun, right, But it's the people they need to know, right, It's it's the people that are involved, either on the league level as a play or staff,
you know. And I talked with Mike today and like people are you know, are people feel like they're being lied to or people feel like they're getting
the full picture? Like this kind of stuff helps really muddy that, like you said, even more, and like I promise you here, if I pull up like Scoobies, like the nineteen thousand impressions that Scooby got on us and then whatever stories like it's not worth the cloud bro again, if this ends up being great and that's awesome and if you're trying to do But when they tweet, is how's this for a source? Sa Ja Broni's like that to me does not read as I'm trying to educate the masses, because there's
a lot of confusion. This is like I'm trying to one up everybody and post what I have again could be accurate. I just to me, the intention there feels very odd and that's kind of where I'll leave that. And also just like I have this information no one else does. Well, again, we've seen this information changes very quickly, so one it may not be that accurate in a matter of moments. Two ye, it's it's just sort of flexing and saying that you have a source that other people don't have,
which if you're a player, I hope you do. I mean, like you were, I would help you have it. Yes, I hope so too. But again I don't know if a lot of players do in the situation, I don't think a lot of them have it. If you're if you're holding that and just posting out there, why aren't you communicating that within your own I don't know your own group. First, I I don't unless
you have. I don't that that sort of level of self self inflation doesn't really serve anyone besides the person who's posting, which again, ah, I know it's to where a lot of people do that, but like that's that's doesn't I think the intention maybe that school scoo right was going for in terms of informing the public. Again, I don't think that really it had the intended effect that he wanted it to. And even though I I know a sort of tongue in cheek again, I do not believe that I actually served
the narrative and actually created any sort of clarity for anybody going forward. No questions here, we'll get out here. Question GJP, Danny and the Rock even so part of this league. From what I'm told, they're part of the rollout, a big rollout coming, and that's I certainly give it. In the indication Danny's off of Twitter, which has been interesting, and I don't know if that coincided with all of that, but she's no longer on there, still busy, I mean, she's the only one that's posted anything
about this finalization of the merger. Well, she had that really quick thought on Instagram that she sent out as far as oh, yeah, well you have kind of emergency coming on and yeah, sounds great. Didn't really go into it very any further than she already needs to, you know, I think she's already trying to prepare her pr statement as far as the Rock goes. I mean, look, you know, the Rock is kind of like a really nice action figure that some person almost you almost treat us like a
collector's item. You put it in the box and you don't want to take it out until you want to show it off to your friends. And I feel like that's kind of how it is with this league, where they're going to tell them like, hey, you know what, don't say anything, just you know, we'll let you know what you what statement you have to put out, or like with you know what you need to say, and like they're they're gonna use them when when they have everything figured out. He's
not gonna be at the forefront of this. He's of course he's involved, you know, he's part of the ownership group, but he's not going to say anything until he's prompted on it. Russ Brandon's the guy who's in in the weeds right now. Trying to figure out what's going on. And so I don't think there's gonna be any words from Danny and the Rock until this is really solidified. I think people assume that when you don't talk, you're
not involved. I mean, that's not necessarily the case. I mean, if that were the case, then people would say Rodger Goodell is in the commission of the NFL anymore. But you know that's not true. He just doesn't talk as much because the owners do a lot more of the talking than he does in some ways. So that's I don't think that should be confused
with them not being involved anymore. It's just they have their own way of communicating the message once the message is solidified, which again we've gone on for the last hour saying it probably isn't and again this just speaks. And I was trying to kind of explain to Dorothy last night because I like, I was thankful to actually have to go work yesterday. I'm like, I'm so
glad to get out of the house. But I'm like every single time, like the point of this merger, right is we're it's the United Football League, like the So now this is you know, I'll call this the third halftime. You know, there was the initial thing of hey, we're intending to merge. There was that we're in the finalizing merger, and then there's this which is not official, but well, you know this has an asterisk. Like the first time. There was eight different messages that were sent out.
The Union had a different message, the USFL season ticket holders had a different message, the XFL season ticket holders, the XFL you know, the official statement from XFL like it just it should not be that, you know, And we have a lot of comments here, you know, Scott and everyone asking like do you think March thirtieth, You know, it seems like they're not ready to go. There's too much going on, Like you got to get this unified message together, and to me it feels like bde we
got too many egos in the room and trying to figure this out. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm reading this totally wrong, but I like, you got to get at least the communications figured out here that if anything, should not be the challenge. There's a lot of other things. Well, I mean that was my fear going into the mergers. Can you really combine these ideologies? And that was my argument months ago saying that I didn't think it
would ever happen. As I told on your show before is I didn't think it was going to happen because I never thought they would be able to come
to the table and agree on anything because they operated so differently. And I still there's shreds of that going on here, and that they don't really know what the consistent messaging is, which again leads me to my next point in that I know this is a bit retrospective and this is kind of a what have showed a could a moment, but I'm I still just can't help it sit here thinking what if after after COVID, after what happened after that when
they when the Rock and Danny decided to buy the league and they got it out of bankruptcy. I don't understand why Fox specifically was so adamant about not coming to them and saying, hey, we see that you're trying to get this leak back in up and running. We really enjoyed the idea of spring
football. Let's work on maybe bringing back some other entities or ideas, And instead they decided to just go gun home and say, well, we're going to start the USFL I mean that to me, out of all the announcements read and I know it's sort of a retrospective moment and it's not really on topic, but like, I can't help but just trace this exact moment when the day I woke up and I read the news that the USFL was coming
back. To me, out of all the information and all the news, out of all the leagues that we have covered and talked about in the last three years, to me, that is still the most random thing that happened. I just literally woke up and thought, why. And I'm sorry to all the people who enjoy the USFL and everybody who's had fun watching it. I've had fun watching it. I've enjoyed the players, and I've enjoyed getting acquainted and really learning about the history of the USFL too. I mean,
that's the thing. It's been a history lesson for me, really getting adequated with the people. I mean, we've talked to like players from the back in the eighties, which is awesome, that's so cool. But I could literally could not understand at that moment, why now, what's going on with
this? And I can't help but think what if Fox had turned heel and like an alternative universe if they decided instead to try and collaborate with Danny in the Rock at that time and try to bring it in a Spring league instead
of now where both of their backs were up against the walls financially. And you can argue all you want about the USFL, they're not doing this if they don't, if they're not doing this, if they think that they're striving, that they think they're thriving, they would have waited for the other league to die and it didn't happen. And so I can't help but think what would happen if they actually just came together in the first place and done this.
That really is just gonna be the biggest what if I'm always going to think about instead of where we are right now. Some comments here are seeing that like I said, new member today, be a member of that. It's fine. I like, you get that little thing next year and in there and said, that's cool. I recided about itself the top and I think one of the most trains I heard a the Reughnex players get like go
gamblers take over the Roughneck name. She says to me. The Reughnecks team will obviously be known this the Great Defenders or sorry, great that's that's like Mike with the Fugaze Guardians, you know, the Fugazi Orlando Guardians, David Fox, all the USBL stuff they got, super coppery David. If you if you want a journey, go back. We chronicled that was my favorite time ever podcasting ever, was talking with Michael Cohen, our Beverly Hills ip
attorney. And then when he couldn't do it, when Tim and I got that Tim guy and he was like on vacation in Hawaii and he's talking to me about copyright lot David go back, you you do it. I just google Mark Cast, you know, the Law and Order un of all the XFL stuff, some other comments here. I have so many stars on here. We'll do this. Zach, longtime listeners, Zach, Hey, Zach, remember what you said? Hey, are you doing the show on Thursday? I said, you know how rumors go? Do these guys even know
what they want to do? It seems like they would if it had an announcement right after the government approved the merger was the reason for the hold up. Things were going to be terribly messy. But this is another level and then they think we have a lot of these like do you think March thirtieth, Andy, what's your over under March thirtieth today? Because I've been asked
that a lot over under. I'm gonna be honest, I think it's gonna happen on March thirtieth, but it's just gonna be really discombobulated and all over the place, because that's kind of how they've been running this whole thing the
entire time. Like I said, they're going to operate it. I feel like at the pace that they're going out they're gonna operate is if they just are gonna do it not on a shoe string budget, but like kind of a fly by night proposition, which is I've said in the past, like they're just going to say, hey, here's then announcement, but we're doing this draft in about two days, Okay, Now we're gonna have training camp
out a week or you know, maybe two weeks. Like I feel like everything's just gonna come out matter of factly, as if it had been there the entire time, and it had been in the know the entire time, and it's just gonna be really quick information and it's gonna be force fed in that way. I do believe in that date despite everything else that we've discussed in the past hour and a half. But I just think it's going to be so last moment, and to me, again, that's a disservice to
trying to bring back people into the fold. I do believe if you're talking about it over under, I think the betting terminology would be push because I think it's literally going to be at March thirtieth. No, yeah, Tanner, here, do you think there was to play all along Usabelle starting that?
No? I think Fox was. The XFL did really well for Fox, you know, regardless of everything to happen with COVID and it went away, and I think Fox rightfully thought like, if we can run this league and own it outright, that there's a lot more of a benefit there than there is to pay in another league, you know, the operating, if we can do everything in house, you know, I was just gonna say, it's like Scooby do like and I would have got away with it too
if it wasn't for having to have fans in the arena, you know, in the stadiums and having to market in city is kind of all that. I'm like, I think, if I think if Fox had rolled out XFL business plan, you know, move either do the eight Cities or the hub of the eight Cities, I don't know if we would have been in this, but it was the Hub and it was the disaster of that that led into the US and the XFL is changing of their original you know, their
original plan of doing the hubs. But no, I mean I think Fox could have got away with it too, but they you know, things, things change. Well. The really the monkey wrench here, I still think is the Brian Woods involvement, especially with the TSL, because, like the TSL is something that did not have to be played in front of fans.
As strange as it was. I mean, at first I just chalked it up when the TSL was going on at the end of twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, I just chalked it up as well, you can't have fans in the stands, so this is fine for now, just play in front of nobody. But as time went on, I started to really recollect on it, and especially in the past season, I thought, you know,
I get the idea of the TSL. It was really just a player development league in most truest form, and it really was just that for people like you and I and Evan and people who work at player development, that's really what it was. And I think that's great as far as just getting people reps and tape and being able to get people to know coaches and connections in
its purest form for a football enthusiasts, that's a great league. In terms of an entertainment and enterprising, capitalistic venture, that's not something that really works. And I think the problem is that the USFL, this iteration of the USFL, really tried to tread water and do both. And I don't think they could try to do both because that's not how it works. People want
to be entertained, whether you like it or not. People have to have excitement, they have to have noise, they have to have involvement, they have to have people sitting in the seats watching the game. Like that's just how it is. I think they tried to kill two birds with one stone and it didn't work. Like they tried to kind of they middle ground. It have your cake way too much exactly, and that I don't think that is the right approach, and it clearly showed just based on the metrics of
what they were trying to accomplish. So for me, I think that was its biggest mistake in trying to playcate both. You can talk all you want about how it doesn't matter who cares if there's people there, Well, guess what it does matter. When it's a TV product, it matters. And if you're selling it as a real, authentic football league that's not just predicated on player development, then yes, you need to have some sort of entertainment aspect with it. That's just that's the end of the day. You have
to have that. And I think that that was really its biggest mistake, and so that's why why not either a just go full board with the Spring Football League and just be like, hey, let's just do this and have a product on TV just to sell that and sell the advertisers. Fine, great, then did you save a lot of money that way? Awesome, Then you're really saving money that way. Or go the other direction with the
XFL and say, hey, that was really fun. I think we should really try to have eight teams in eight cities and try to do that again, because that really seemed to be a viable thing really want to try and do that. Choose one or the other, don't try to choose both. I think that's what they tried to do, And this is kind of what's happening right now if they're trying to choose both, and I don't think it's
going to work. Yeah, well, and it's both sides, right, it's Fox and XFL your red bird, like neither one, Like we don't really want to devote a lot to this, like what can we get you know, what can we get by like just kind of you know, I said that for a year and a half with all the USFL stuff, like it's the least amount of effort all the time. And XFL it's similarly with
money and things. I think they put in more, you know, maybe more creative with their resources in terms of utilizing the social nod of that. But this always felt to me like USFL and EXCEL both like the least amount of energy. I will say, I will say, when is this, Oh, this is a good comment I'll bring up in a second. I will say I was mocked, Andy, I was publicly mocked when I said the USFL the whole time should just call them the Star the Stallions, the
generals. You know, it wasn't it wasn't the jousters of anything. No no city names. And then now we wouldn't have had that big of an issue because you could have had whatever doing that. I just YG has been putting a lot of stuff here. But I love Duncan when I can't you usbo's goal was to get into home margarets. They had four last year. I don't know which which of the Canton teams was was a home team?
Do you know, Andy, do you know what to know? I think they had three home teams, and then I think they had a hub team, which I mean, you tell me which I guess whatever the closest state would be, or a city which Pitts fur from. Yeah, it was ninety minutes for I like, I live in Olympia. I live in Olympia. Again, cool idea, But why do you have to assign cities immediately when they were created? Like that's I think I still to this day,
I think they should have done just the eight just eight teams. Yeah, I think they should do eight teams and then after the fact say hey here's your city ward. We're awarding New Orleans a team we're rewarding Birmingham a team we're exacting. Yeah, this the the idea of selling a team with a city name and not actually playing in the city is just bizarre. It's just
it doesn't like it doesn't sell, you know. And I had and I've had friends tell me this, Like I've had casual friends who I told asked them like, can you you want to watch this or like, you know, are you watching this or are you looking at this team? And they just said, it's really weird. It's really weird not having that city that played that team in my city playing at this time. Jacob has a question here. Do you guys think the league is stupid enough not to rebrand the
Gamblers or the Rednecks run with the Gamblers? You know, it's he's I think that we talked off the top. I think he play Kate the four and four and you want to keep it on there. But I don't know. Mike tweeted yesterday it's not decided. Jason Ganela, the lead XFL VP of ticketing operations, retweeted it so like, obviously that's a that's something the XFL wants out there. I don't know. I think that said, that's
kind of quite the smoke job. If you try to do that. Well, again, it's fully a fast one, right, It's it's it's like removing the ruggunner from underneath your feet if you're if you're doing that, if you're just gonna either swap names or what we talked about earlier is just having the same name but completely different players and coaching staff. Again, it's like just selling something completely different than what you advertised just even months ago. So
I don't really I don't get the wishy washings of this. Just pick a team, pick somebody, just send them over. Just do it, but don't try to you know, don't try to sell it as if like one team is exactly the same as it was before or they had they had been here before. Like if you're going to replace the Roughnckt coaching staff with the Gambler's coaching staff like that and sell it as the Roughnecks, that just doesn't make sense. Let me know, any other comments here will wind down.
I think we've done pretty good talking through all of this stuff. I just I I could go through some of these comments. I don't want to be too mean because I'm kind of in the mood right now, Yeah, Canton was going to have a team eventually in the year twenty thirty five. I guess it's sure, I guess, but like I'm over again, right, Sorry, this has been this week and all of that, Like this whole thing has just been a disaster. But you know, if I if I
always said but I wanted to say, I would get in trouble. I think I told the Lion. I think I told the line pretty well most of the time. What was the name, was it Pat or Mike? That throughout the name? He said something along the lines of Canton legends, legends can't gold Canton, Texas Speed says here the Canton ant Eaters. Sure, sure, yeah, I mean again, what again, why can't we just create mascots? Like I think the USFL would have had a lot more
fun just staying with the mascots. Remember how much of the big deal that was when they came out with the mascots and the guy, the guy from the Breakers who still to me looks like he's out of a toothpaste ad. I still can't get over that. But you know, they they just need the wave, right Dave, the wave. I still can't get over that
one. But I don't. Again, the Stallion school. I like the Stallion I'm like like the mascots, like the camaraderie round it's fun, like have fun with the camaraderie of the players and the coaches and the personality of the team and the team names. That's fine, But do you have to give them city names? I mean that again, like Tampa what was the whole exercise out of Tampa Bay, the whole Bandits thing? I mean,
couldn't you just what if it was just the Bandits? You kept you kept the brand, and then you say, okay, well we're sending them to Memphis. Yes, fine, whatever, they're the Memphis band were Because then you award because the whole difference of it is you're not moving, you're awarding. You know, you're rewarding a community because you are awarding them a team.
And you go, man, like, we've had great support out of New Jersey and like we want to give you We're sending the generals there, or like god for bid, yeah you have the you know, the New Jersey breakers, Like, oh that wasn't what it was in nineteen eighty three, Like nobody cares like it would have been it would have been cool. We did have here. Well, first off, where was it, Scott? We have another new member. This is cool. I have my little
dollar member. Should now you want to be part of the cool kids Club. Always put your comments up here. And then we also had someone was saying they should do the Canton Aviators because it would have been nice to us. So TSL it is no Aviators. It was the Hughes. Damn it. It was the Howard Hughes. And then people weren't smart enough and they made them the Aviators. It should be the Canton Howard Hughes. Damn it.
That is why. Well, I mean, wouldn't be cool read if you got your Jouschers back in there and then you had your team again, you had the you have the same jersey, and then I mean, what if like Luis Perez got back on there and then all of a sudden they just said, okay, well now we're we're we're putting this team in Kansas or something like that. It's like, okay, cool, I have my
city, But like, who cares about that? First let's talk about the actual brand of the Jousterers, and let's talk about I still I love that jersey on it. I love I love the purple checkerboard. It's it's unique, it's it's really nothing like any other jersey I've seen. If my hands were so sweaty and I didn't have stuff hanging in the way, I would
go grab right now. My favorite thing was when I interviewed when back in the day, when uh, Brian Scott was was going to come on the show, and remember all that was going on with the Vipers, and so then they set up Louis Perez and so then I put on my Jowsers jersey and I was so excited to talk to Luis Perez, the uh you know, the the Jousers quarterback, because they the way did they win the Mega Bowl? They be I lost the lie, but I had I had my
thing, and like Louise was like, oh yeah, that's cool. Like no, I'm like, I was so excited to talk about this. Louise like, uh nicest guy, but certainly not the uh the uh. He's very even keel, even in terms of his excitement. It's pretty it's pretty amazing that guy. That guy's just unflappable. You know. Yeah, Max here from Max, Max, where have you been to the Max at the NFL they were talking about doing the camp bull Dogs. I'm sure they have
Atra Merge on that. So yeah, no, no Canton Bulldogs. Oh, I'm sure they would. But then it's okay if the Tennessee Titans where oilers uniform is right in front of Houston, and that's totally fine. You know, I don't want to be putting out calling the kettle black statements. But you know, like some of the hypocrisy and team names in sports, I swear, yeah here y gef Finlager or something andy, anything else, my water is full of and I'm my my body is full of of water
here thinking about we still got seventy people. You know, he always seems like it's dipping and there's like, but anything else, any other questions, anything else. This will probably be it unless there's the miraculous super supplemental dispersal
draft next week. You know, I'll we'll see. I mean, I'm around, like I'm around to do any of this stuff, except yesterday I thought I had to work or I did have to work, and I was like, you know, if they I don't believe this twenty first, but if this happens, but you know, I'm around if anything happens, I just don't. I don't foresee a dispersal draft next week. Here's my question,
read, let's let's have a little exercise here. I want you to tell me your spring football or all football New Year's resolution, like what do you hope to see out of it can be this league or any other league in the next year, since we've done a full calendar year of this again going through this, by the way, and I want to know what you are looking forward to or hoping for in the next calendar year with all of this, you know, all of this league, all of the the entire
thing that we deal with, this this realm that we deal with a couple of things that now I do have one more question before we get out of here, and I might we'll see how my bladdered does here. We might have to We got people, I mean, people are still joining here, like I get you get addicted to the to the numbers. You know, I'm really excited for the Vancouver Gray Cup and all of that stuff. I I you know, cfl aside because they were you know, and hopefully they're
good to ask again next year as well. We have that the media day coming up, soide, I really hope that all works out. Uh, you know, I want this to work. I don't not want this to work, and I want this to work more so now because you know the rumor of you know, the Arlington and playing in the you know, the playing in the cities. I want that to work because obviously I want all of these people and this, you know, with the jobs and all of
that stuff. I just when it was coming down, when it was we're doing the Hubs and we're going to do the you know, Foreign eight or whatever it's going to be and all that, like, that's where I got really worse on because I need to be able to buy in that at some point you're going to have home field, kind of home stadium, all of that stuff. So I don't know, I mean, I wanted to succeed. Like I said, I think a Birmingham Stallions versus BattleHawks championship game is
probably the highlight that we could hope for. I mean, whether you what's your thing, that's great. Yeah, Well, last year I think I met my resolutions. I wanted to go to an XPL game because I wanted to see the league survive, and they did and I got to go to I got to go to two games. I went to an Arlington game and then I saw him again the XFL Championship game and that was awesome. I going to this year. I would love to go to the Saint Louis.
I'd love to go to the ball Dome. I'd love to see a combination of a USFL and an XFL team play. Like that's just a cool concept. Again, this should be a cool concept. I know we've had a lot of negative comments over the last hour and a half, but like that would be in reality, Like that would be a really cool thing for that to happen. My other resolution would be to meet you and Vancouver for the for the Great Cup and willingly enough, hopefully you get your BC lines there
because I think they're about due for that. They need to be in that game. Sorry Winnipeg fans and sorry fans of the entire rest of the West. It would be really cool to see BC host that that that Great Cup and just to see Vernon. Also to see Vernon Adams junior. That's also another of my resolutions. I haven't seen him since college and I was enamored with him at that time. I would love to see him again playing in the Cflgain going and actually that would be another big one, is going to
just going to Canada. Going back to Canada would be really really cool, So that that would be part of my overall resolution for next year. Yeah, I mean whatever this whenever this takes over the course of the year, this podcast and everything like, we will be in Vancouver for that game, whether it's his media or a fan like that is in stone. Whatever that ends up being. If we just buy a ticket and go and kind of hang out with people, and that that will be involved with all of that.
Put your New Year's put your New year's hopes in here. We have a can put stability. Year's resolution is stability, Jared says, hoping the league can actually let fans know what's going on. Zach Here says, thank you for everyone involved in this whole thing, all of your hard work. Can't say that I keep up the one hard work for everyone that you know wants to. We get a lot of critics on here. We did. However, many weeks of XFL overlapped with USFL and then USFL and then overlapped
with CFL. CFL all the way through November so I don't know if there was anyone else that did weekly football recaps from the XFL kickoff all the way through the Great Cup. So I'm very proud of that. That was everyone involved with you and Pat and you know, Evan and Jason and kind of everyone else. My last question for you, and I actually thought about this earlier. I wanted to talk to you. So the Texas thing got a
lot of gripe anyway, right with the XFL. I'm like, oh my god, all this Sexas stuff, but at least you had the Vegas and Seattle to kind of, you know, like justify it. Right, Well, like we're here with this league with the Texas, you know, I mean there's no West, there's no northt like, there's no any of that. To me, that's a tougher selling point at this point, right because you're selling you know, these USFL markets like Spirler Alert, like Birmingham.
I know, it's this isn't the the mecca, right of that? The even Vegas with cashman Field was or whatever. So like what do you make of that? Because to me, that is an interesting point where you don't have that benefit of the of the West Coast teams. The XFL had. Yeah, they're centralizing the interest and the exposure, and that is a bit of a tough sell, especially to a West Coast audience. And look, I'm no stranger to the West Coast audience being stiff armed by bigger media properties.
I mean, ESPN famously just does not really show any regard for any Western properties, and especially the PAC twelve which is now going under. I just I know, that's just part of the game. I think it's unfortunate because the West Coast crowd has a lot to offer and it should be appealed to more. In my opinion, it really should be so that I mean, that's a tough sell. That was the whole reason why I think the ESFL had a harder time really appealing to anybody west of the Mississippi because guess
what, there weren't a lot of teams west of the Missisissippi. So proximity is important for the XFL. I mean, yeah, you have Texas teams, and that's a big part of your market. But now, like you said, no Seattle, know, Las Vegas, like you're taking on an entire just a giant, enormous amount of geographic location that doesn't really pertain to
this entire league now. So I mean the short answer is you add teams, But the long term answer is is that viable because I don't know if that's going to happen, if you're going to try and cut costs and save money. I mean, we get we've downsized from sixteen to eight. Do you think it's going back to ten anytime soon? I certainly don't. And
that to me is it's going to be treading water. But also it's going to be fighting uphill as well as far as are they going to be able to keep their finances where they want to and keep their core audience around and be able to make money enough to be able to progress forward with expansion If that's even the thought process in the future. Without the West Coast market, it seems it's another challenge. It's another task they have to deal with. Now. Yeah, I think it's tough. I think, and I talked
a lot with listener Seth. My commanders fanned a lot about this, and you know, he had talked going into the season because Seth does a lot of you know, research and work in with the TV markets and kind of viewership, and like, uh, you know, it was tough enough last year where you're cutting out in New York and LA and now you're you know, not that Seattle, but I mean, yeah, you're really just central.
And it's to me that was always the problem with the USFL. It's like some of these markets that you're that you're in, Canton is not is not a large selling market, you know, Michigan yet like you know, these aren't like they're even if they're NFL markets, they're not. So you're further kind of reducing that. I guess this will be our last question.
And because this goes along with one someone asked earlier, if we think that the ratings are going to be up this year going in with half the teams getting acts and therapially theoretically a big portion of fans being tuned off or going the way, what's the chances that the league makes less? And the other The similar question was like, do you think viewership is down going into this
year? Which I do. I think I don't think that this like, well it was this thing and how like however you want to sell it. I don't think that you go into this as a as a boost of two fold versus what it was last year. But what do you make of either of these points. I think the viewership stagnates, first of all, I agree with you. I think it just stays status quo with what it was
with both leagues. You peak out a million probably for a good game, and that's about it, depending on what channel it's going to be on. Obviously we'll just wait till the TV ratings thing comes back. We'll have to redive into that whole debacle this year. But as far as the chances of it making less I think that's I think that's a two sided question. Are we talking about them making less money or are we talking about them losing less
money? Because the whole shtick about, you know, the XFL losing fifty million dollars and all the operating costs and all that was made such such to do, But then the USFL didn't show their books, so it was like, well, how much money did they lose or how much money did they really make because the XFL. I think that's what's the net cost here, And I think that's something that people don't really take into account, is how much money is really being put into it, how much money is being made,
and then how much money is being lost. I think there's just the financial realm of it. I think it's gonna be reduced obviously. I think there's gonna be less money spent up from the new league that the XFL spent, But I think there's gonna be more spent from the SFL side. So when those two parts come together, can they make up enough money to be able to balance that out? So I don't know if Lou like, I don't know if it's going to make less. I think it'll make less money.
I don't. I just wonder if it's going to lose more or less money. That's really the biggest question. How much is the operating costs and how much of a detriment is it going to be as a net venture. Well, there you go. Yeah, I think it's I think it's a tough battle, but I think that, you know, this is kind of it. I think this is the last stand here and I think you get one two years of this, and I think this is a merger like we've
talked about before, in necessity. Like I said, appreciate everyone tuning in almost two hours here, good viewership. Appreciate that, please, you know, give give the thumbs up. I always get to see helps the YouTube algorithm and all of that. I'm sure subscribe, but please subscribe. I've changed it now. If we get to thirty five hundred by the kickoff, that's a big tall order by March thirty. But with two I'll give you two free tickets. Because we had we were either going to do two free
tickets to the XFL kickoff or the USFL kickoff. Well now it could be the you could get to the merged league kickoffs, so we'll do that. But you know, the subscribe. Give Andy lots of kudos. A lot of work here, coming home from work and doing all this stuff, so I appreciate it. I hope everyone merry Christmas, whatever holidays you celebrate. And if we do not talk next week, I hope everyone has a new
year and we'll be back. But you know, just follow along. If you hear people talking about dates and you don't have me talking about stuff coming, you know, we'll roll through this together. I hope everyone feels informed today, Andy, anything else, no reed, Thank you so much as always in a tremendous amount of work put in by you, and another great calendar. You're of doing this whole thing, and I just want to say
thank you for having me participate. I wish you and Dorothy a very merry Christmas, Happy New Year, all the above, happy holidays whatever you choose to celebrate, and can't wait to do this again. Yeah Merry Christmas. Go crack in good thoughts here. We have the Winter class that coming up January first, so just you know, give some kudos there. We could use that to mobile feel taken on the Vegas Cool night, so appreciate everyone. We'll see you next time. Next