Episode 147 - The XFL Is Downsizing

Coming up this week on the mar cast. Well, if you thought after the successful completion of season one of L twenty twenty three, they were just going to rest on their laurels, think again. The XFL making league white cuts, doing the little downsizing. Matt Damon, should we be worried? What's happening here? Do you understand that you will undergo the permanent and irreversible medical procedure commonly known as downsizing, and that your bodies will be approximately point

zero three six of their current mass and volume? Nervous a little? Well, I certainly did not foresee layoffs happening so soon in the executive branch at the XFL following the championship game. But here we are, chief marketing officer gone, the VP of Marketing and Branding gone. Should we worry? Is this cause for concern? I have smashed the emergency class, the professor Andrew Murray. We need to have a discussion. I mean, it was essentially

the Black Monday for the entire marketing staff of this entire league. And look, you and I have talked about it at nauseum, about the marketing strategies that have been implemented or not been implemented since this league came back out of the dull drums. And then on your regularly scheduled program, we have Evan Wilsmore coming on. We have created a watch list XFL players that still deserve a shot in the NFL. Already had players signed off of our list.

Since we have recorded, we are bringing Evan on deep dive who still deserves a shot in the NFL. It's a numbers game, right someone has to get injured, you know, something has to happen for that spot to open up. And I do expect more to come for sure. And then we are still talking USFL. On the podcast USFL Week eight, we have Furbi of Rendissims coming on full preview of the weekend's matchups. I thought they might

like kind of spights it up a little bit, you know. This year one, you know they you kind of give them a free pass on some stuff. But then here too, you think you might make some changes, and so far it's kind of felt exactly the same. And then we are one week away from the CFL kickoff. We have three CFL team previews today. JJ Adams over at post Media talking to BC Lions Mike Hogan of the Toronto Argonauts previewing the Great Cup Champions return here. And then we have Steve

Milton of the Hamilton's Spectator full CFL team deep dives. We are getting ready for kickoff Ereston. Probably going to be a long one. Hope you enjoyed.

Hey guys, welcome to the Mark ass read here. Was really just getting ready to preview, you know, do the CFL previews here. We had a big segment planned with Evan, you know, talking all the XFL to NFL our watch list, our wish list, whatever you want to call it. And then we had big layoffs this week at the XFL. We did the shorts about it earlier this week. Janet Duke be let go, Anthony Zucconi, a lot of the sales members from a bunch of the teams

across the league. League is kind of reformulating here. Redbird had a performance review following the season, kind of going in a new direction with some of this. Going to get all into that today with Andy. Really appreciate that. Andy and I already had a big segment coming next week. We had our whole episode plan, but we're bringing Andy in early as well. We need the professor here talking through all of that. Really appreciate Andy making the

time. Like I said, Evan traveling, getting done with college. He has his watch list, all the players, backgrounds, everything that Evan knows. A tremendous insights from Evan. Really appreciate Evan taking the time. And then Ferbie over at Run the Sims. We've had Justin Freeman on in the past, and certainly appreciate the guys over at Run the Sims doing the dfs and the stats everything else you know for XFL, USFL and all of that.

And then we are a week away from the CFL kickoff. Hussy's Huddle and I are going to be doing a live CFL kickoff pregame show a time TBD, but obviously before the game. They're BC at Calgary next week. That game is going to be at six Specifics, so you know, probably four four thirty there we'll be doing a CFL pregame show. I try to get some more guests lined up for that. Should be a good one. And then like I said, Andy and I are going to probably be having

a special live episode next Friday, June night. So if you want the CFL stuff, come for the pregame show. We're going to be doing that on the eighth, and then our normal show will most likely be a live show with Andy if his busy schedule allows it on June ninth, and they keep in mind, we've had lots of info as well today about the rookie Draft and all of that. Then I'll be talking about with Andy. Rus Julio and Doug Whaley were on the inside the league call with Neil Stratton over

there. We are going to be doing an XFL rookie Draft live show. Hopefully they're on that June sixteenth. They've said it could be in the afternoon, could be the evening. Waiting for them to pin down the time, but look for a cavalcadive guests. They're talking the XFL rookie Draft, most likely for a kind of fun live show. They're on June sixteenth. I think that's it for me. I we'll check back in at the end of the show. Thanks again. Well, Andy, we were all set up

next week. We were going to do our big live episode offseason, like what should the XFL be doing next? Thing? You know, and we're breaking glass. We bring the Professor in first and foremost. Have you seen the Matt damon movie downsizing. Do you know the reference I'm making with this episode, I actually have not. When you first posted that thumbnail, I was a little bit confused, and then I had to look it up. I've seen a lot of bad David films that has not been one on my

list or even my bucket list. So you don't have to fill me in a little bit more on that one. Oh yeah, well, no deep dive in that. But it is interually downsizing because the premise of the movie is, you know, people and consumerism is scoff Scott's so big. People are shrinking down. You know, we're using less resources, we're more consolidated a little bit. How I feel about the XFL here with some of these layoffs, we'll talk through all of that. Is this a good thing,

this is a bad thing. I know you have thoughts and I have thoughts. You know a lot of people north of the border having thoughts and everything else. But to set the stage here, this was Tuesday, coming off Memorial Day. You know, we just you know, we're celebrate the championship game all this. I really thought it'd be a couple of quiet weeks. Evans already on this episode we're doing the XFL players to watch and did the

NFL. Next thing, you know, I get sent a message from Fran who was on the you know, the live show in sam wherever the heck we were San Antonio, and he goes, hey, look at this and it was one of the people that was working for the Vegas team and they had posted on Facebook that they just got laid off from their sales drop. He goes hey, read like and started doing some digging. I send it to the group, you know, Mike goes hey, I think changers are

coming. Dada da da da. You know. Next thing we know, Mark has this article out huge sweeping cuts Janet Duke, you know, CMO of the league gone, Anthony Zucconi, he was a VP of marketing the brand gone many We've heard upwards of thirty people kind of across the teams and everything else. What did you because I know you're working and stuff, and I'm like, we got to talk about this. What did you think when

you heard all these layoffs? First and fourth us, I mean, it was essentially the Black Monday for the entire marketing staff of this entire league. And look, you and I have talked about it. At nauseum about the marketing strategies that have been implemented or not been implemented since this league came back

out of the doldrums. And I mean, we can get into a lot more of those details as the show goes along, but I think the basic point that we came to the conclusion that we came to multi times that quite frankly enough, was not being done to promote this league. Now, I have no doubt and in no way, shape or for him, think that it has to do with the effort of the people who are behind the scenes. I think they put in as much effort as you could probably ask for.

I do think one of the things I have to consider is that number that Mike Mitchell has reported a couple of times about the budgeting of the marketing strategy, like it was somewhere around one hundred and twenty thousand dollars or something in that neighborhoods what he has mentioned in his articles and has mentioned on air

a couple of times. And so my initial thought when it came out was was this because of the financial limitations or was this because of the strategy not being implemented as Redford Capital and perhaps the league saw to what they envisioned, you know, and maybe it's both. I think we've been learning more details since that's happened, But that was my initial reaction when I heard that news. And it's hard, you know, so of course I immediately and I

want to pull up Ben's article here. So Mark had the story Ben Fisher, who's been on the show, and you know, I felt we were more apt to talk about this now. I mean, Ben's just reporting the facts. I think, you know, as much as I respect, then I think we can run through this a little bit better than he can getting the statements out the the idea that I had people messaging me. That people

message me like, is this a good thing or a bad thing? I said, well, we have had criticisms all year about the marketing of this league, and I never want to see anybody lose a job. You never want to see anyone you know, Janet's been there forever and Anthony was there. Janet was a team president of the Guardians back in the day for twenty

twenty. Like, I don't want to see that. But if it's something that you and I and many people have complained about all year, and they're immediately making changes to fix that, and you know, people had to lose

their jobs. That to me is at least we're like recognizing this and we're adapting and not like, well, let's like roll it back again, because I think they went into this they be Danny Jerry, you know, the Rock to whatever extent he's involved, having a certain perceived notion of like what this was going to look, and feel like, you know, who's going to talk about as what kind of marketing do we actually need to do? And then now realizing after year one, oh, I think our preconceived notions

were very, very wrong. Is that do you agree disagree with anything of that? To some extent, I think what it tells me is that clearly that benchmark that we kept referring to of twenty twenty clearly was in the minds of the marketers in terms of the league's operations this entire time. I know it's unfair to compare it to that point. I get it in some ways

because it was a different time. It's a different ownership, different you know, just a different mantra that surrounded the league in a lot of ways. A lot of the rules and some of the players and Obviously some of the legacy people stayed on board, especially in the marketing department. We talked about that, Like you mentioned with Jana Douche, She's coming from the Guardians and they had a bigger role here. You had some other holdovers from that that

regime. But it clearly I mean, look, even though we can make a lot about how, you know, attendance figures for some of these teams increased as they were went along, the point of the matter is a lot of them were down on average from their iterations of the teams that were here before or in comparison to say another league. You know, like I said, the AF, I mean, we kept going on and on and on

about San Antonio. How they I mean, the Commanders were drawing, you know, twenty five thousand plus people for that league in the short time that it was alive. And here you have the Brahmas, who are kind of a centerpiece. I know they're they're not the hub, but they're kind of another centerpiece in this operation. And the only time that they broke twenty thousand

the entire year was their first game in the regular season. Next time was the championship game, and even that didn't top that opener, So you have to wonder about figures like that and how they compared them or how they measured them. Clearly, whatever metrics they were using were not good enough, and this is why these changes were made. I think it's just like you said,

you never want to see someone lose their position over this. It's it's sad because a lot of people lose their jobs, and it's it's a league of opportunity, but it's opportunity to the point of what's going to be done for the league and what's going to be done for the brand. And before Andy and I get too deep, I'll pull up the article here. We are going to talk the rookie so that the zoom came out the inside of the league with Neil I rest Julio was on that, Doug Whaley, we'll

talk about that here at the end. It is kind of looking forward here they're moving on. But obviously this is the pressing news, you know, obviously leading the show with and then we'll get to that. Because I do it looks and feels very similar to the USFL College Draft. I don't think it's totally the same. Call me hypocrite or not. I've been talking with people about that today, in fact directly, so we can kind of get

into that. But to read through this Benefisher article because I think there's some interesting notes here. So obviously x Bel dismissed Emo, Janet, Duke, and Desiconi as part of a broader set of cuts generated by a strategic review of the league after one season. So Red Bird apparently went in following the season said we're going to kind of look through this what didn't work. Extra officials declined to say precisely how many jobs were eliminated. They fit into two

different buckets. One group are now deemed seasonal employees, and that could be a larger notion of a lot of like the you know, outside of Jane and Anthony, some of these people contracts. Okay, we don't need you working like game day events of the c Dragons games. We don't need you there in August, you know, we need you there in February, March, April, but don't I don't want to get two seasons on this. We'll talk about that one of the season, though they could potentially trended their

jobs closer than the second season set to starting in February. The other including Janet and Anthony were done after a review determined the league should shift from a brand marketing emphasis seeing appropriate that launch, to a more revenue driven approach to maximize ticket and sponsor sales heading into the critical second season. That to me is the more interesting part. What do you make of that, because I

do want to talk seasonality. Also, it tells me that the bottom line was not being met or it wasn't being met in the way that they expected. And again, yes, I think the brand itself in a lot of ways was pretty strong all those things considered, and from the holdover from the last league, from it being in the cultural zeitgeist. Really since it was created in two thousand and one, you know, it has a lot of

currency, It really does. I think people still fail to understand how much currency this league's name has, and I think that's why ultimately the name was not changed. Like I know you've talked a lot about that with some of your guests, about like what if Danny and the Rock came in and just made it their own league and just reinbranded it. Well, quite frankly, I think this is just a brand that was too strong for them to give

up. That being said, clearly there seems to be too much emphasis put on that brand and expecting, oh, this is going to draw people back in and reel everybody back in from two twenty and resting on those laurels not

happen. It didn't happen to the extent that we saw back then. And because of that, while you were able to have traditionalists like the Saint Louis fans and DC the beer Snakes and things of that nature, you had some other new traditions that were starting up with San Antonio and Orlando in Vegas and obviously some of the other teams who had held over even Seattle. But you

you've been on the ground floor of Seattle's entire year. You know, straight straight up it has not been the same level of engagement, just in terms of the attendance and also in terms of maybe the advertising too. That happened three years ago. So obviously with those kinds of numbers across the board, obviously they need They are trying to drive up ticket sales, They're trying to drive up interests in their membership, They're trying to drive up interest in merchandise

sales and everything across the board. They and their sponsorships. They clearly see this as the bottom line that they were not able to achieve, and there was too much emphasis on why had been achieved before and just kind of living off of the coattails of twenty twenty. Well, and that's you know, and to say it, I don't want to be too blunt about it, because I've talked with Mike and meum the reviews episode that we did with Mike,

and it has come up a little bit. If you look at the major Temple successes that you would say that they had citywise this year, I would say Saint Louis DC, Seattle was not a success. That it wasn't twenty twenty. I don't know if you could name any others in those two that you would you would deem that was like an unmitigated success. And if any of those that were success any that were done by current regime, right, all of those were, you know, Saint Louis DC carried over from

twenty twenty. I don't know if you could say of any other city or any newer city that was seen the success this time, right, and even markets like Houston. You know, Houston obviously was also successful as a team, but in terms again of the intendance numbers, not so much. You know, you had a little bit less round across the board there. Arlington, I mean seemed about the same as it was before. I mean, I think that has more to do with the confines of the stadium and the

structure of it. But you know that was that was kind of a break even situation. Orlando. I'll be honest, Orlando did not do as well as I thought it would. I really thought Orlando was gonna be a better market. Now again, that's based on my premonition of how the Orlando Apollos did in the AF and who were doing very well as far as their attendance numbers, and yet they were not able to achieve that same level of success.

And you know, look, who knows, maybe the same thing would happen if they were in another AF market, you know, Memphis or Utah or San Diego. Would they have been able to like San Diego is the third highest AAF attendance, would they have achieved those numbers? I don't know. Clearly, if they didn't put that enough emphasis in the marketing of that,

that wasn't going to happen. And I have to tell you read like again, one of the things that I can't help but remark at again is just how much local marketing was not being done at some of these levels that we've we've covered, we've talked about, and just doesn't seem to be as known or as prevalent this time around. It just it was there three years ago. It was there in some way, shape or form, and this

time around it just was not there. And you can argue about, you know, network television exposure, you can talk about it being only on ESPN and ABC and not Fox and as it was you know, last time around, but the fact of the matter is it just wasn't there this time around. And it's you know, splitting the difference with a different league. Now it's a different set of circumstances. But based on their numbers, they did not achieve their goals. And you know it. We'll talk through and Max

has all these notes. I ultimately think a lot of that will go into our conversation next week of like what do we want the offseason of the XFL to look like with in terms of social media and kind of local events and all that. But at least right now, you know, when it comes to the where they want to do some of these jobs that they want to get rid of the you know, from focusing on the brand to more revenue

driven right maximizing, maximize ticket and sponsorship of sales. There has to be some sort of standardization across the board from these teams when it comes to ticket sales. You know, Corey the commit the Guardians ticket guy. Corey posts every day on every Facebook and Twitter and TikTok and come, hey, I'm sitting at the fifty yard line, Come buy tickets. Come like Corey is an example of doing tremendous work on his own. I presume grassroots because there

certainly doesn't seem to be standardization. I think the Siallo guy and I hopefully, you know, I don't know if he sells a job. You know. I think the guy's name was David. I think I just know that because I kind of like went to the pick a Seed event and I, you know, talk to hey, you know, I host whoever, like you know, we're here. But I don't know the Siallo guy. I

don't know that, you know. I don't know the Arlington guy. I don't know the girl, you know, I don't know the San Antonio like the fact that you don't even just have standardization like that across the eighteens and like, hey, these are going to be our team reps, call them, email them, get in touch. They're posting, they're you know, outside of you know, Hailey or whoever with the c Dragons posting that content.

You're trying to drive up ticket sales. No one. I mean, it was a far cry from Orlando and then a drop to any of the other seven teams. And I just don't think that that's fathomable. I just don't understand that. And I think that's interesting you point out about the lack of standardization. I can't help but think about another league like the CFL,

who kind of deals with that same issue in some ways. You know, you have so much varying levels of promotion and engagement, whereas you have someone like BCS of our Doman really putting in the capitol and trying to get people to go out to Vancouver or Victor Qui trying to do everything you can, just trying to pull out all the stops to give people to go into Edmonton, versus you know, your community owned team, the Saskatchewan And then you

have Winnipeg who kind of rests on their lows and has their own success. And then there's Toronto, which everyone sort of you know, points out as the black sheep of the family in terms of being able to draw attendants. All of them having these kind of varying levels of success and engagement in their

own way, and there's not a lot of standardization there. Same things kind of happening here too, Like you said, just but to interrupt that, I apologize the CFL at least that makes sense because you have nine different heads of teams all coming together with Randy Ambrosi kind of like, right, that is Ambrosi's role as a commissioner. I got to wrangle these nine governors of all these teams. The XFL you're a single owned entity team of anything.

You should be able to standardize this across because you own everything. I mean, we're not even to the point of the USFL or the XFLA. We're franchising these. I mean, of any time to have it all working together, it's this time right now. Yeah, I mean, why do you why is it it almost like bleeds into like the social media aspect of it too, And I know that's it's not always related to like sales, you

know, ticket sales and all that. But like it even seems to bleed into like some of the mantras of the teams, like why is it you know, the Seattle account's always you know, on controlling people. Meanwhile the Arlington Renegades account just seems to wage war against capitalization and it does not and

continues to be the bane of Anthony Miller's existence. But I can't help but like feel you're right, like there should be some sort of level of like flat base level standardization that is being done for all these teams um in that in that respect, especially when you have you have clear markers of who owns this thing. You have you have the figureheads who have ultimate control. There are no owners There are is no ownership group that you have to negotiate with

or battle with that doesn't you know, the revenue sharing all that. It's like there's not something that is there in that terms of that level of um of parity. So I don't understand why that isn't being done on that level either. I have to agree with you on that. Well, if you can't, if you know, if you can't parent your kids under your own household, I don't think you're going to be able to parent them out,

you know, when they're off into the world. Like if we can't get this right on and all, you know, Like you know, it goes with the USFL as well, like if they think they're gonna franchise this thing, which I believe is ultimately the goal, Like I mean, you can't do it now with Fox and all the money and you got everything in the world here that we're gonna you know, it's it's this is what we do.

We make football. If you can't get it all right now, it's I don't know how these franchises are gonna work because you can't as we've seen it, Like we said in the CFL, I don't like seeing that level of disparity. I don't like seeing you know where I've been told Saskatchewan they don't do anything because they know people are gonna come. Like I've emailed them to get people. I've done all that. Montreal, anything you want, Hey, you want the team owner, here, you go, let's send

them over, you know, like anything, because they understand that. But you shouldn't have you should at least, you know, we talk about parody in the USFL right now with teams going through the playoffs. You should have some parody here with these uh you know teams in terms of marketing and sales and everything. Yeah, I mean the on field product I think will continue to have parody, and there's definitely gonna be that at least you have that

ability. But when you're not having people who see that in person, it's kind of hard to draw them into that if you don't understand that, if you don't have people that understand the notion of Okay, well, this team wasn't very good this year, but they could be better next year, like Orlando, you know, and again this is year one, so we don't

we haven't seen this played out. I know this happens in the CFL all the time, which is kind of honestly, is a blessing for teams like the Red Blacks for example, Like, yes, you've been terrible the last few years, but you could dig yourself out of the hole and actually make a great Cup run if you really tried this year. Then the same thing could should be under the notion of this XFL league, which I think is

very possible. But again, the people there's not enough people who understand that and just overall just the lack of outside awareness of some of these brands. You know. I mean we've been we've been reporting left and right about players getting signed, but I mean you go into the threads of the teams in the NFL who signed these people, like people that just didn't watch these guys or haven't seen their highlight tapes, and that's something that the league has to

get on now. I know, again it's year one, so maybe if they actually start doing something at the next level I'll start to do They'll actually start to look back and realize, oh wow, this guy did this this past season. But they don't have that level of exposure yet. So you need to get out in front of it and really push the envelope if you're going to get people to understand that exposure instead of just being word of mouth or via your player's success or coach success. I do feel a little less

old man screaming at the clouds right now, just with it. Where remember basically came in and kind of assessed the same thing that we've been doing here this whole time. Here, let's get there, because I want to read this statement here that Mark got for New sub and then Ben got This is from the xcellent spokesperson, Dan Is this Gagniere Gagnier. I don't. I don't know if I've ever spoken with the showman. As the XFL plans for

twenty twenty four and beyond, it is the time to transition. You do a dual full time seasonal base kind of going through all that, the x MEL will continue to employ a full time business and football operations functions about the team and the league in team levels, and will scale up hiring each year

for preseason and in season role. That's what scares me is because we saw what the skeleton crew did this year where we brought and I understand we're not going to be hiring eight hundred people again in the I yes, read, I understand that, but you know, we saw what it felt like and looked like this year onboarding and seasonal employees. At the same time that you have training camp starting, players are showing up, we're doing physicals, we're

learning the playbook, we're doing media stuff. We're trying to get to social media set. Like I don't, I don't like this scale up, scale down, and a CFL does it. They go dead from basically December and they do their little team meetings, but you know they pop up in May when training camp starts. The day that a spring football league realizes that they're not a seasonal business will be a day that I'm very happy because I don't

think it works well. I mean I thought that they were already trying to do that with the draft next month, for example, they already announced that draft. That's good, Like, that's that's something that they need to do. Now that they get to keep doing that as they go along. Now they have the showcase. Those were good. Keep promoting the showcases by all means necessary. To promote the showcases as much as you can post about it, talk about it, write about it, do whatever you can to post

about it. But yeah, I mean some of these people are seasonal employees, which to an extent I understand when there's not a game action going on, it's hard to get people involved. But you should see it more in the lines of you know, like stadium employees for example, right, like people don't work out the stadium because there's not an event. I get that, But in terms of promoting, in terms of you know, being keeping it in the cultural conscience this entire time, you need to keep doing that,

Like, what's I mean? I know, I know he's a very busy man, but I wonder about someone like Josh Lewin likes the podcast just going to disappear for the next you know, seven months. I mean, maybe you have an answer to that, but I wonder about stuff like that.

Well, that's what I was gonna say that, Yeah, obviously we don't need and like the lady that does the DC in game announcing the late they're kind of you know, it's it's like the Adam Goss of the you know, for the DC, where he's the argos guy and he's screaming and during the games. Like, you don't need to keep her employed all year. I understand that, Like we bring in and we did Dad Day.

Yeah, but you know, Josh did. And I understand Josh is busy, but Josh is paid by the league, and I'm sure the league would pay him if they felt necessary. Yeah, Josh did the post championship episode and they haven't posted, right, why not interview some of these players they just got Why don't we call up Darius Shepard right now and go, hey

man, you got to the Chargers. But it's like, you know, we don't go away like we don't have I don't have an offseason here, and I know that we cover the other leagues, but we've talked to XFL every week and we have planned to continue talking XFL here into the summer. You know, you saw it, Maddie. I'm done, Like season's over. I'm done. Mark hasn't posted. Mark did his obviously story this week, but Mark hasn't posted anything. Josh hasn't posted, Like, you can't

just let this go away. That's what everybody can play to about the USFL. All last year, USFL goes away because you don't have anything going on to keep it in the news cycle at all, and it's just not sustainable. And it was really frustrating to me to see how many people were like, I'm all in this year, including the XFL, and then the second the season's done, it's like like We're that's it, We're going off, you know. And I understand people work hard, right, I understand that,

but like you don't. You don't get there's no there should not be an off season. There is in an off season in the NFL. There shouldn't be an off season here. I mean, well, this kind of information is coming out, but this is not the kind of information they want

to have in the off season, right you want. One of the things that I want to see done in the fall season is I want to see more player profiles, but player profiles on people who have made it into the NFL, who make the fifty three man roster, or at least you know, are factoring in in some way on the team that they're on, and be able to interview them and ask them, you know, how, what's going on, how's it been, what do you take from your time in

the league, and how has it helped you in your experience now in the

NFL. I think that's something that the league should absolutely think about doing, because you know, we get player profiles all the time, but being able to see that like transition period too, I think would be fantastic for the league, especially if you know, possibly you could see someone like Darius Shepherd having a big kick return for the Chargers, or you know, Hoki Butler maybe catching a touchdown for the Steelers, like something of that nature that you

can at least draw from and sort of see those parallels between what they learned in the XFL and then what they brought over into this league because you know, again seeing commentary on like Shepherd's signing, you know, I tried to fans who are like, oh, I don't know what this means, and it's like, this guy's a special Team's Player of the Year and the XFL

this year. He's a good kick returner. He's going to supply competition for a team that doesn't have a designated kick returner right now, Like, that's just that's the fact of the matter. So I think that something that they I think that kind of content would be one. That's just one idea I

have, But yeah, they need to stay on this. They can't just turn off the lights and disappear, and which they kind of did last year too, right, Like I mean, yes, we got some announcements, but they were really putting us in the dark for for a lot of build up into the league, and that is just mystifying for a lot of us, And I don't think that's what you want to do, especially if you're

trying to go from year one the year two. You can't do it like the USFL does this year because there's gonna be numbers like you see on the USA Network or on FS one like we've seen with some of the attendance figures where it's like they're just not going up, they're stagnant. And there was just because, in my opinion, there just wasn't a lot done in the promotional material besides the Super Bowl ads for the USFL that we're being done all

the months beforehand going into the season. This is gonna will try. I don't want this to be just a complain fest the whole time, but I do think this is viable conversation. I don't this is going to sound like Reid is angling to work for the XFL. I do I owe my own business. I'm very happy I do. I spent all day to day enditing the wedding video, very very happy for that have weddings this weekend. The XFL kickoff for us was episode one hundred and thirty two of this podcast.

Now, obviously we have covered ex USFL and the Spring League and the CFL and all that stuff. XFL has always had a say with every single week on this show for one hundred and thirty two episodes, without a single game of XFL content being played, and most of the time with you know, very limited resources to the league. Now obviously they've been tremendously helpful once think you know, once everyone got on board, the XFL has been great.

I have no complaints if we can figure out one hundred and thirty two weeks of offseason content talking about the XFL, like I'll consult for free, guys like it's not it's not hard, but yeah, players, like we're getting it. I would have had I would have Josh on the phone right now with Darius, like what is going on? Talk me through this? Like we said, what do you think about the new kick returns in the NFL? Are you We've heard Kavante Turpin talking about that, how he's going to

run it back anyway? How do you think that you know you spotlighting here? Is that going to change how teams look to feature you now that that's all going to be different? Like it just it doesn't have to be that difficult, and I don't like anyway that's my point. Sorry, well,

no, I mean I have to give credit bouncing off that. I have to give credit to someone that you had on your show last week, John Hodge and his employer's predoun Nation. Look, he said on this podcast this week, I was listening he said that they did a uniform ranking and that

generated a lot of buzz. That's content. You know, it's because there's some new uniform matches, matchups for some of these teams, obviously the Camerad blues for the Argos, and some of the redesigns for the BC Lions, and a lot of other uniforms that are kind of getting rehashed and sort of reformed, and that created content. If they're doing that, I mean, why isn't the league doing that? You know what? What's going on with

the aspect of just trying to create any sort of content whatsoever. I mean, one of the things the NFL does, for example, in the off season, and I mean the YouTube channel is one of their best resources, at least for me it is. It's just posting highlight videos, videos of old games, legacy videos, things of that nature that really help them continue to stimulate content. I mean, right now is like the dead period for the NFL. I mean, there's really nothing going on, but yet there's

still things that they're able to kind of create conversation for. And I mean even something like you know, oh, is Jimmy Garoppolo going to fail as physical with the Raiders. Like that's something that just got everyone, you know, kicking the tires and buzzing around and asking Tom Brady questions, are you coming back this week? And him having to come out in the woodwork and

saying, no, I'm not doing that. But like that's the kind of thing like you have to somehow, just like almost stirring the hornet's nest a little bit. You know, sometimes there's got to be a way for leagues to understand this, because, like you said, you are someone that understands that and creates content on a regular basis and a weekly basis when there's nothing going on, And for many iterations of you doing the show for the existence

of the XFL, there really was nothing going on. Did John Hodge bring up our podcasts on their show right now? But I did not hear that. No. I scared that, Like you know, I gave John the hall, gave John to follow, I gave Hodges to follow here. Let's see what happens. I want to talk through the rookie draft and kind of all that stuff anything else, because I don't want this to you know,

I again, I feel like this is constructive. I just don't want this to be like verbal especially just on my part, like verbal diarrhea here. So anything else you want to make sure we touch, We'll do the whole offseason talk next week, whether we want to see social media do and the Vegas deal and you know, a local fan events and kind of all that have anything else, like where we fire Janet and everybody else. I just don't think this is an alarmest as everyone wanted to make it out to be

at the beginning of the announcement. I get it. When you hear layoffs, your first reaction is, oh my god, the company's going underwater. What's going to happen? That happens. This is the kind of story that

comes out for many kinds of different entities. Now, in this case is an entity that has not been around that long, so of course your level of skepticism is maybe a little bit higher than it is with someone like say Google or Amazon or Twitter or something of that nature, where something all of a sudden, mass layoffs are happening and you're starting to you know, set the house on fire. But I just hope that the league is able to

understand where it's going. I think they have a clear vision, but they need to understand what resources they have on hand, and if they're going to be more revenue driven, if they're going to be able to keep the interest going, they need to understand and how they have to go about it.

If it's going to be the same offseason as it was last year, I don't see many results changing, quite frankly, But if they are going to actually promote themselves a little bit better and shift gears, and if whatever strategy they implement this time around with the new employees or people who get into consolidated

roles, all right, then let's see if that works. But this is something I think you and I both agree that things need to change, and I think Mike Mitchell and perhaps others would agree with you that there needs to be at least a shifting of the gears. Here. At last point,

I'll make two. If we're going to do this, try to pitch to people a little bit better about your Vegas team playing on the equivalent of a pasture field, because getting people out the cashman was really a chore this year, and you need to be able to get people involved in that market.

The Vegas market is something that they really have to push for, and obviously the sales team unfortunately fell on the sword for that one, and look Redward Capital Jerry Cardinal maybe had a more play in that as far as getting that out there and involved in having that market out there. But they've really got to be able to push that because if you wanted to make it work, you're going to need to push, for lack of a better term, push

more of your chips in the middle of the table. The last thing, and then I do have one concern here I wanted to forget to bring up. Yeah, when I heard that the Vegas when it was the Vegas individual they had posted that they were let go, I immediately thought, oh, they're relocating Vegas. And then all this other stuff came out and you're like, okay, it's much bigger than that. I did see CFL people like, oh my god, you like they laid off the whole marketing staff,

Like that's crazy. I bet you a lot of cf fil fans would be very happy if the CFL laid off part of their market, you know, like I mean, it's you know, it's it doesn't. It doesn't doesn't necessarily mean the budgetarian. But here is my fear. If this is if we're trying to consult, you know, if we're downsizing, and if we're trying to consolidate, if they get rid of Janet who you know, for

what they were given, I think we're doing their best. Do we just have someone at Redbird also do this kind of thing, which to me is is worse because then you're getting someone even further away, like at least Janet knew. Okay, this is what was going on in twenty twenty, this is what worked in New York. That's my fears. Okay, now we want to save costs, We're just going to have other Redbird people do part of this stuff. For the XFL. Yeah, I mean that plays more

into the hub strategy in a way. But it does sort of question as to whether that's going to change the winds at all or if it's just going to make things just more more consolidated and more conservative in terms of how they operate. And that's something that I'm beIN gonna be able to get away with that it seems more in line with what they're going with for the USFL, for example, that's more of a line with their strategy. And I have my thoughts on that, and I don't know if there's any way that the

XFL is going to be able to implement that same strategy. Look, people invest their time and money into this league. There are people who really put themselves forward and invest their time and money, and we need to see the league do that too. You know, you can downsize all you want, but you better whatever strategy you implement, if you're going to be outsourcing, you better outsourced correctly. Well, but I mean that's my thing is you

know, I think we were talking about it and Mike. I think Mike was the one that kind of originally brought it up in the group chat and I said, that's a Fox Sports special. Hey, we got so and so's do an NFL on Fox social media, Like, let's log you into the USFL account for a couple hours. I just that's my fear because at least Janet knew what was happening, like what worked. It was like she was on the ground floor from the guinty, right. That was that was

my fear. When they got rid of over Locke and Jeffrey Pollock was like, Okay, we're losing some of this identity that was here, right, We're losing you know. Same with Sam Schwartzee and all that. You know, you start kind of shedding the past if you do it too much.

I'm a little concerned that they have someone kind of freelance this alongside other things are riper, Yeah, like just giving too many responsibilities to one person and somebody who's not really has their finger on the pulse of what's actually going on. And you know, we've talked a little bit about that with USFL. There's sometimes some consolidation or some people that may be involved who are sort of have their hands on too many baskets and aren't really all in on the operation.

So that's something that I don't want to see from the XFL either. I would really not prefer that's the route they go unless somebody is really be committed to this league, like be committed to what's going on, be committed to the product, the brand, and everything that goes into it. Because let me tell you, the coaches, the players, person all the fans, they're all invested. Then everybody who's working in this league needs to be

invested as well. And just my last point we've seen now there was concerns we have red Bird, they want to make money. There a capital investment firm. The second the season was done, they came in and said, these are things that we're not like, we need to get rid of these immediately. And I, you know, I think Vince. We talked. If Vince was burning a lot of money and doing a lot of things, who knows if that would have you know, XFL would have lasted into season

two or three with the churn rate they had. I just you know, and then this is what happens. Do we have an investment firm and all of that. All right, so we are going to pull up I want to get through this all time code this too, so you can just if we want to talk through this, I'll pull up marsh article. I watched

the Zoom today as well. If you guys, I would recommend if you are a player, and I tweeted it, if you're a player, is supposed to dming me or Evan or Pat or a like. How do I get into all this? The ins I have the league on YouTube. It's about forty six minutes. Has everything you would ever want to know about the XFL offseason here, what they're looking to do with the showcases, with the drafts, multiple drafts, all of this stuff. Russ was on there with

Doug. The big things were obviously the rookie draft coming up. I think it's going to be ten rounds at eight picks. They're going to have a secondary draft in the fall and then a supplemental draft in November. What do you make of this rookie draft because it feels very USFL college drafty, but I'll explain why maybe it isn't. But what do you think? I think

it's a little bit different. It's not just drafting someone's name out of thin air, and from what I've collected that they weren't players that were known that we're privy to knowing that they were actually being drafted by this league or that

they were even eligible for the draft. So for the XFL, it sounds like it's a little bit different in terms of them actually drafting people who are undrafted free agents and may not be making the rows in the in the NFL, which I mean, those are the kind of people that should be targeting, right That's that's that's the kind of players you want to look for.

Are they have a multitude of players that they're looking after, but that's one of the pools that they're looking at they have multiple, multiple avenues to go about this, and I think that's something that if there's a player that doesn't make the practice squad and the fifty three man roster, that they have a way to at least have some sort of kind of I guess um hammock or like net to be able to fall into in case they are not able to

make it past that point. I was corresponding today with someone that's pretty closely involved with a lot of this stuff and just saying like, hey, I really appreciate that this was done so that we could kind of see what was going on because there were so many concerns when it came to the USFL, not concerns like the usfls college out. Okay, what is this like are

you guys? I just I appreciate the transparency that Russ and Doug had on the call, and like, you know, we're still working through some of the stuff, and this is why, like we're not sending out contracts because we're still trying to figure out if we're going to get unionized, and so we don't want to have the contracts to be sent out if we're going to unionize. Even the reason why they had players signed for one year with a

second year extension versus signing people for two years. I think the timing of this is good, and Russ was the one that said it. Russ is one of the guys. Would they running all the showcases and doing all this stuff. If you're an NFL player now wanting to be and it's the middle of June, you know you're not getting into a camp. Most likely you're not getting onto a squad as opposed to sitting around and saying, what the f am I going to do with my life now for the next six months.

Getting drafted into this having your rights retained by one of the teams, it gives you more of a sense of purpose for that where you know, timing wise, where the USFL draft did it? You know, immediately following I think it was even before the actual like draft draft, all of those players in their heads still think I'm making it to an NFL roster? Why would I want to Why would I want to be this? Where now, like you kind of know your lot in life at least for this kind of

calendar cycle. So I think timing wise, even if they're both fundamentally the same in terms of we're just you'd never have to step a foot in the XFL. We just have your rights. I think timing wise, this makes a lot more sense mid June than it does mid February. I think so too. I mean, once like, the draft is a dream for everybody, and it's a dream that you want to buy into. And that goes for all the people who are drafted or undrafted free agents and are assigned onto

a team, you know. I mean, there's all there's a litany of players in the NFL who were undrafted free agents that ended up being great players. And I think they still had believe in themselves even when they weren't picked on those days Thursday, Friday or Saturday or back on the old days when it was just two days. They don't really feel like they are out of

it until they're truly hold that they're out of it, you know. And in this case, I think they at least have more of a reality check of the situation and they kind of start to see, all right, one of these cutdown's going to start coming, or where am I in the in the queue or the list of you know, prioritization with some of these with

the coaches in terms of the opportunity that I truly have. I mean again, it's it's a nice other option, and you know, it's going to be interesting to see where the XFL goes as far as keeping some of these players, retaining some of these players too going forward, and people who know or want to just be XFL lifers. I mean, this year you had more examples of players who came in for one year were like, Hey, this is my one year, one month shot, and then I'm out.

You know, t J Barnes, great example, he went up one more year, he had a great year with the Renegades, got his ring and pieced out, and now he's onto his next stage in life. Great, awesome, fantastic. I think there's going to be more players like that going forward, and maybe some that are more realistic, and maybe some that just have more fun and just say, hey, I want to be guaranteed playing time, Like playing is a big deal, it really is. Some of

these players want to get on the field, and the NFL's cutthroat. You're not going to get that all the time unless you have the absolute right situation. And I think some players are going to be in that realm of just wanting to get out there and just play and develop too. Development is such a big thing, and it felt the NFL is so it can be so brutal and also just so impatient with players sometimes saying I don't know what this

guy's doing. I don't know where he is. He hasn't gotten anywhere, and it could be their first two years or three years of development, and some of these guys just don't come on that early, you know, you really want to wait and tell simone like someone like Jordan Thammu being in the NFL, being on a practice squad at twenty two, I mean, quite frankly, his skill set just wasn't there this past season. I think he

has a much better shot. I mean he has jumped leaps and bounds as a quarterback, and that took the year, you know, that took years for him to get to that point and mid season even in this year. So I just think there needs to be more realistic stock of where players are as far as where they are and being developed, and especially like you said in the June timeline, it just makes a lot more sense in terms of

recruiting, getting people into the system. Yeah, so it seems like and I think it was Russ said, all any XFL draft now is basically going to be open position. Right, We've kind of we've done our initial one. We're not rebuilding every team from scratch. There's gonna be this rookie draft here on the sixteenth. They're ballooning up the offseason rosters up to ninety. There's going to be obviously they're doing the showcases all year during the summer here,

there's going to be the six Nick Novak's going to do one. They obviously could add more that's going to go. They're going to funnel those best players into the combine. All of that's going to kind of be included, and it sounds like a September draft that's going to be going on, and then they're going to be having maybe a November draft. We kind of get

final NFL cut. So I don't think any of them are going to ever be as big again as like the initial but kind of different stopping point so we can stock up players because it basically it's hitting three unique subsets, right. These are players that kind of maybe have anything going on right now. You get the guys that are kind of trying to find their way in the showcase and do that. If you're not because the rookie draft, you know it has to be this year, you know you were eligible and not drafted.

If you're an older player, you can do the showcases and all that, and then obviously the NFL cut. So it seems like they don't want to let anyone fall through the cracks. Is that am I kind of understanding that? Absolutely? I think so just keeping all their options open and having as much pool assessment as they can, and also just you know, signing players midseason. I think that's something that's a big bigger deal in these leagues

too, is mid season acquisitions or trades. As far as some of these players moving around. I thought about this morning, if I'm looking at it, the two teams that won in the past two years in the USFL and XFL. I think about, like the USFL added Bo Scarborough, right, he wasn't drafted initially, he was just kind of flowing out there is you know from the Detroit Lions. They add him, he gives them another element on their run attack, and he helps them win a championship. Rennegates this

fast year. You know they didn't have Elie Prez. They traded for Lae Prez, the entire season changes. Some of these midseason ads are a really big deal for some of these teams that players that are only even in the draft pool initially are not available at that time, but then later on they are. So even just the mid season acquisitions too, in addition to these drafts, this is a multi month process, you know, it really is.

And I think that because of the fact that you don't have these players who stay for a long term and if they play so well, they're just gonna move on. You know, you're not going to have sort of like the same mentality as far as a talent acquisition and all one base like you do with the NFL. The NFL is just it's the draft, it's free agency boom. That's it, as opposed to in the XFL and the USFL and the CFL, where it's it's all year round, you know, it's

just whoever's available moreever time and any reason at any points. So it's that's also part of why they also the news cycles I think can also bear to be a little bit more year round, because I mean, the players are moving year round there there this is a constant cycle for them too, and like how they they were saying. I think it was Doug said they they this first batch is obviously off of guys that maybe were invited to the NFL

camps and didn't you know, didn't make it. Kind of they're sitting here in the summer because like, hey, they were good enough to be brought into an NFL camp, Like, let's kind of streamline some of our resources here where maybe we don't have ten thousand hours to you know, spotlight everything, Like hey, they've already done enough work to kind of deem them worthy to be in this. It was funny here I was going down and I saw I'm like, oh no, they made the video private. I think

Mark must have embedded. They posted the wrong zoom last night, so that must be this one, because I thought, oh my god, no they because this has such good information and that if you go on the inside the league, it's still the correct one is still there. It has a hundred in sixty five yews. Think of all the players that DM Mike, I said, Evan Sam every one hundred and sixty five years. It tells you everything you need to know. So anyway, I'm not trying to sell that.

The last note and then we can probably get out of here soon. They asked about the NFL Alumni Academy, Doug said, they have not heard from them. Feels weird. What do you make of that they're kind of moving forward like that's not a thing. Yeah, I have a theory that the relationship with the NFL Alumni Academy might be terminated as far as this season goes. Look, it was I'm not going to call it a mess,

but there did. It seemed to be some miscommunication as far as what was going on earlier last year as far as what's what number of players need to be allocated, who was guaranteed a contract, who was going to get on

some of these rosters. There were seemed to be a bit of a snaff food with that as far as what the league promised to maybe what the NFL Alumni Academy expected, And they kind of rectified it a little bit before the season started as far as expanding rosters and allowing more players to get on. But the fact of the matter is, I think the NFL Luma Academy expected

more, and I think the XFL. I think what the XFL realizes that, oh well, actually, maybe there's more resources than we realize initially. There's a lot more players out there in different ways that we can collect this talent, and we don't necessarily have to rely on the NFL alumni academy. And that's not so much the fault of the NFL alumni academy. It's just

what the XFL found out worked for them. So yeah, I have a feeling that relationship may not be around much longer, and to no fault of either side, I think, just not a relationship that was going to be amicable. I mean, look this IFL thing, right, Like this IFL partnership for example of the XFL, I don't know how much that's really good a factor in the next year those guys going to move up from the IFL into the XFL. I don't know, you know that what kind of partnership

that is. It's good more clout for the IFL than anything, So IM not really, I think the XFL is kind of piecing this altogether, right. They're all saying like, all right, this works, this draft works, this scouting profile work, this showcase work. Maybe this is more where we need to go, Like they're clearly, I mean, the number of boosting showcases clearly tells them, Okay, let's put more of our capital resources than this than opposed to in the NFL alumni academy. So they are piecing

that together themselves. I mean, it's the same thing like the CFL trying to global draft, and you know, people have their opinions on that whether that works or not. I think all these leagues are figuring out whether or not that where their talent acquisitions work and where they don't. So yeah, I don't think that that relationship between the alumni Academy XPEL is going to be

around much longer. There were surprisingly a lot of questions on the zoom about the IFL with agents because I just it must have been like, right, many of the agents on the call where you know, representing guys in that, you know, they said, we want to we don't they can. We want them to focus on plane, you know, like if they're in the playoffs, were knowing that they can, we will see them and know

that we can get a spot. I think it Doug said, we would much rather see them playing football than running around in their underwear or the combine, like, so we're going to see the football and all of that. But I think with the alumni thing, it's kind of like, you know how like some weeks on the podcast, I have like seven guests. It's like why does It's like because I ask a lot of people and I don't

know if everyone's gonna say yes. And I think that was kind of like the XFL, like let's let's kind of get all these things go in because like what if we don't have anyone that wants to play in our league? And then next thing, you know, it's like, oh my god, we have so many players, Like we're you know, we're flushed with cash here. It's like having two dates to homecoming or something. Well, I mean they spent months talking to the CFL and talking about a partnership, and

I mean they turned no stone unturned for this league. Really, they looked through every option possible. Whether you debate whether they should have been involved in those options, that's up to you, but like they were committed to doing

their homework. I will give them that credit, like they I think that's something that honestly, I think something like the CFL could learn more from as far as like just explore your options, see what you got out there, see who wants to partner with you, who wants to do this, who wants to work here? You know, the XFL whether it works or not. I mean, they're kind of just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing it sticks in some ways. And you know, they want to be more

consistent and more standardized and being more of a league. Sure, but they clearly were trying to do as much homework as possible the first two years before they started up again and see what was going to work for them. And I think they're learning now, which you know, we to go back to the top of the episode. The marketing wasn't up to par Okay, maybe the alumni academy relationship wasn't good enough. Okay, we'll see about the relationship

with the IFL moving forward to a partnership. You know that, like all these different levels of things that they tried at the beginning and in the middle of their process, if they're going to continue with that. They clearly don't seem to be afraid of switching gears and going another direction because they believe in

their product and they want to be successful and they're taking risks. Not all of them are going to work out, and they're right to be criticized for things that they didn't do well or they could have gone about a different process, but you know, at least they're trying. Yeah, it's so weird. I guess my live week aldgo on. I mean clearly forever talking about all that stuff we just got. If you're enjoying this conversation, Andy,

I next week will plot out the entire XFL offseason. But it's one of these things like even nowadays, like I just know this, and I don't know if it's the thing nowadays, like you're not able to like people aren't able to change their mind or like if you change your mind, like you're a hypocrite, they're like, oh, you deleted the tweet, Like like what it's like maybe you thought a thing and you were wrong, or like I talk a lot with the CFL people now, and I was like,

yeah, I probably didn't know a lot back when I was, you know, when Paul and I were fighting a rash on here, Like it doesn't mean that that you're a hypocrite or you know, it means you educated yourself or you move forward. It's to stay with the XFL here, Like it wasn't like they went into it like We're gonna calm the Alumni Academy out of like they thought it was a good idea, they tried to do it. I could have told him it was too many players and they you know,

I could have told him Cashman Field wasn't gonna work. I couldn't have told him a lot of things. But you know, I don't know, Andy. I feel like we could tell a lot of people a lot of things. But uh, anything else from you? I appreciate this. We're almost at fifty five minutes here. Anything else from you before we get out? I mean, just let me know when the next alarm bell is rung and I'll be there, ready, ready to go whenever you needed read Andy.

Yeah, put up the bat sing though? That really is what is it? Batman like he's got It was whether the new like ben affleck ones or Christian ban where he just screams like punish call me, or it's one of his screaming ones. Oh um, uh you say swear to me? Is that to me? Yeah? Among amongst his mini lines, Hey, listen, if anything else, If I can't be your Robbin, you're Batman, at least try to be your skip to your your Shannon because that because we hey, we got shoes to fill. Now, buddy, we got we

got big shoes to fill. How did I forget? That's how late in the day we're recording. How did I forget? Not too started the episode off with we have now we haven't outlasted, but we've out we've outlived. And now Skipp and Shannon, which I didn't they didn't talk about it today on the show, so I think they're just trying to kind of play coy until the end. We're talking like Miami Heat here at Celtics or whatever.

Uh yeah, just heat and nuggets, the matchups. I'm living in the don't don't make Sam come after you, you know, our resident Denver Denver I Sam Sham Shady. Yeah. Anyway, thanks you guys. Well we'll see you next time. Take here, Hey, guys, future read here

editing the episode. And we already have two additional players from the XFL signed to NFL contracts via the Battle Hawks today announcing we have Marcel Eightman signed to the Buffalo Bills, and we have friends of the show Darius Shephard signed to the Los Angeles Chargers. I know Eddie Murray is especially excited about that one. I know Evan and night time throughout Darius in our interview, and I just wanted to keep you guys up today. But Darius and Marcel getting signed

here contracts, it could have more. I hope you guys enjoy Evan and nice chat, but always good to see. I think we are twenty five and twenty six players now signed through the NFL via the XFL, so good for them. Well, here we are, Evan, back from LSU. Still on the grind. Here, Evan, we talk a lot about how impressed everyone is with all the work you do, and this will be no different. Today we have Evan willsmore here, we are talking the XFL to

NFL kind of we're tracking who's got signed. We have twenty four and now who we're still keeping our eyes on and everything else today. Evan, how are you doing. I'm doing great, man. Yeah, you know, I appreciate all the kind words. It's it's good to be back from college, you know, over the summer, but I'm still working. You're definitely right about that. It seems like life just gets faster and gets busier as you get older. So it's one of those things you have to realize.

But I'm excited to be on here today and excited to talk about some players who you know, we think should maybe go to the NFL or at least get a chance. Some of them are have already been to many camps and you know, we'll make note of that, I think as we go. But yeah, I mean there's a lot of good players you know in this league that played in twenty twenty three and excited to talk about some of them. Yeah. So we have here and Max has put together work. Evan's

guy. The list is what we're kind of mounting, is this is the list we have thus far, the twenty four players signed. We just had Brandon Dillon here with the Washington Commanders Vegas Vipers this week as of recording. Obviously things could change here through the end of the week before this goes on, but twenty four players are Evan. Are you surprised with any of the

players you've seen that have gotten signed thus far to the NFL contracts? As I tried to address with microphone, Yeah, there's definitely been some surprises, I think from my perspective, but it seems like that happens in every spring league. You know, there were guys going back that I was surprised about in twenty twenty, and you know, the AFROM twenty nineteen, and you know, even some guys maybe in the CFL. But yeah, I mean

for the most part, it's a pretty solid list. You know. Again, I'm glad that guys like you know, some of the real standouts like Lucky Jackson maybe you know, um Jock Wispatrick Luke Barku obviously was a really good one. A couple of guys on the BattleHawks that I really enjoyed. And then the CEA Dragons have had a lot of players signed. I was definitely gonna bring that up. I mean, he just look at that sheet there, you know, I think that's six players so far, and it

definitely felt like that. But yeah, overall, I mean, not a bad list. Definitely hope it continues to grow. I will say, maybe I expected a couple more by now, Maybe I thought we'd be pushing thirty or a little over. But you know the thing is that these NFL camps, you know, are starting to get so you know, full up right, and a guy like who would talking about later Jakor Pierson I think should

be signed already. And I know the forty nine Ers were really interested in him, but you know, their roster was at ninety and I think Mike Mitchell was the one who mentioned that. Um So again, it's kind of just it's a numbers game, right, someone has to get injured, you know, something has to happen for that spot to open up. And I do expect more to come, for sure, but it's might be a bit

more of a slow process. I know, Brandon Dillon from Vegas signed with the Commanders yesterday and that seemed to be the first signing in a couple of days. I think the last one before that was Lucky Jackson to the Vikings,

if I'm not mistaken. So well, it's interesting and we've talked about this before on here, and obviously you know XFL twenty twenty in the way that that season ended, and you know, we got a lot of players that went over to the NFL, a lot of them that they're still there to this day, USFL filling the gap last year, and then now obviously with the XFL and the USFL either, you're really getting kind of this backlog now of talented players trying to get spots. Not saying that it's not going

to happen. Blank you said, you know, injuries, we don't want to see that. But it does open up this gambling probe that's going on in the NFL other things like that, So it might, you know, kind of curtail into the summer. But it's definitely a different scenario than it was even three years ago with the XFL twenty twenty. Oh absolutely, you know the XFL when they finished that I guess first or second season, however you want to put it. In twenty twenty, that was right when COVID

started. You know, in the NFL there seemed to be more spots open. That was the time where they were expanding practice squads things like that. So it definitely was a different time. And you know, I'm not going to turn this into a debate about, you know, which version of the league was more talented, whether it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty three. I'm sure I know people that are on both ends of that spectrum. But yeah, you're definitely right. It's a different world now, even just three

years later. You know, the politics are different and there's a lot more that goes into these things than there was before. So we'll get here we'll pull up. Evans got his list. Like I said, then Max was putting together work as well on this, and we kind of consolidated this down a little bit here and we can go team by team touch on this a little bit obviously. Renegades, you know, champions here, XFL champions coming in late you know, there was a lot of debate even a couple of

weeks ago, like how come the defenders guys haven't got trads yet? How come the reteguates? You know, we're moving to that there through the championship game. I don't know if that if that will delay signings or not. It is the kind of something to track here, like do you want to make the XFL playoffs in the future, do you want to kind of get out to be able to get in that first way? But who do you have here highlighted for the Renegades? Yeah? Right, so I've got three

players here for the Renegades. Tyler Vaughns, the wide receiver from USC definitely impressed me. Later on in the season once the offense kind of got going with Louise Perez. Again, there wasn't a lot there to write home about early on between Kyle Sloder and Drew Plitt. That's nothing against them, right, but you definitely, I mean we always talk about this sort of transition in the Renegades second half of the season, or maybe not even second half.

I think it was around week seven when they got Perez and started turning upward and eventually winning the championship. But Tyler Vaughns was a guy who really impressed me. And then the one that really stands out here the most I'm going to kind of elaborate on is Donald Payne, the linebacker from Stetson. He's a bit older now, want to say, he's maybe twenty nine, but he really shine last year with the Gamblers, and I was surprised that

he wasn't picked up by the NFL again. And if he doesn't get picked up, you know, at least for a camp for a bit or something, this time around, I'm going to be equally surprised as well, because you know, even if this guy is a bit older, and maybe you know in the NFL nowadays, they favor more younger players that are coming in to compete with you know, the undrafted free agents that the team has signed on to the ninety men roster. You know, Donald Payne is someone who

I think, even at that age, still deserves a shot. And I don't know, I want to say the last time he played in the NFL was maybe twenty nineteen, I can look that up. I know he was with the Jaguars for a bit there very early on. But again Donald Payne again extremely impressive and it really showed too, you know, the difference he made compared to when he was on the field for the Renegades and when he was not. And then the last guy for the Renegades that I have as

Marquette King, punter from Fort Valley State. A lot of people obviously know who Marquette King is. Spent many years with the Raiders, was a second team All Pro punter in the NFL, then went to the Broncos for a bit, and then was with the BattleHawks in XFL twenty twenty, and then this year he was with the Renegades. Obviously a fan favorite, someone I got to meet during the XFL season. And you know, for him,

again, he's an older guy as well. I believe he went undrafted and signed with the Raiders in twenty twelve, so you know he's getting up there in age, But I mean he was really impressive this season too. You know, clearly he's still got the leg and still got the swagger too, you know, a bit of an ego, and he's just all around a good guy, and I think it would be nice to see him, you

know, at least get into an NFL camp again. Punter is one of those positions where a team is only going to carry one of those, so you know, maybe he's one of these guys that kind of sneaks in at the end of December or something, you know, if an injury happens. But yeah, Marquette King has kind of one kind of one excuse me that I wanted to throw in there as well. Now I agree with Marquette obviously.

I posted a couple of weeks ago, Kyle brand Over on Good Morning Football did a segment about that talking and you know, obviously Marquette with his big single he has released in coming off of the championship game. Yeah, Donald Paine, a friend of the show from this season. I think it's an age thing there. Like you said, you're surprised obviously even last year with the Gamblers, just a couple of there's just so I don't get yelled

at here. You know, we had t J. Barnes, we talked about Thom's I La, Lily DeVante, buzzby, Josh Hawkins, Joe Pale, Taylor, Russolino here coming off of ready to get any other notes or comments on any of those players. I mean, again, Russolino was a specialist. He impressed me a lot this year. Thought he was one of the better kickers in the league behind John Parker Romo, who obviously is now

signed with the Lions from the Brahmas. But you know, again, kickers, another specialist position was they're only going to carry one of those guys, right, So Russolino, I remember at the end of twenty twenty played in a game for the Broncos and that was one game you know he got signed and that was just kind of what it was. So yeah, I got like terror Russolino. You know, you might see him come in like at the end of a season or something like that, in middle of the season

as an injury or replacement. But you know, obviously, yes, he was impressive. Yeah, RUSI he had that really that was that tough game at the Broncos. I remember that it was like the win game and he missed on that. We were so exciting for him. I remember because even obviously podcasting at that time, like it was great stories to have on at least Perez. I don't know, I don't know if I see him making the spot here at this point, even having won the championship game. I

think, Tayamu, we can get on that. Any brief thoughts on the last Perez here, what's next for him? Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought up Perez again. This was not a guy that was on my list, and I feel like, you know, again, he's sort of one of these guys where he's not He's definitely not in the twilight of his

career because we saw what he could do with the Renegades. He definitely had an uptick of in performance at the end of this twenty twenty three season, and he was very good with the Generals last year in the USFL in twenty twenty two. But you know, after even after that, you know, he had a season with the Generals last year they lost, you know, before they got to the championship. He was brought back to Rams camp.

You know, obviously he's kind of won over. I think Sean McVay and those offensive guys, even though it's been a couple of years since he was last there. But with that being said, you know, I feel like he's at a point in his career where he might be one of these guys where, you know, he just kind of sticks it out in these spring leagues. Maybe he just hangs around with the Renegades, tries to you know, build things, recruit in the offseason with Bob Stoops and the rest of

the coaching staff, and of course you know the DPP as well. So I think personally, for me, he's a guy I would like to see just kind of stay in this spring football realm. I don't know, I just don't really see a benefit to him going back to the NFL at this point. And that was something that he mentioned in one of the press conferences. He said, you know, me being able to do this, you know, whether it's the XFL or the USFL, or the AAF or the

spring league or all these different places that he's been. The one benefit is that you actually get tape and you get to play, as opposed to sitting on a practice squad or just getting a couple of preseason reps. And I think that's kind of his ceiling in the NFL at this point. It's just those preseason reps, you know, kind of practice squad guy, you know, maybe I don't know. Yeah, just it's someone who would not really

be active on game of days, is the idea. Yeah, you get into that, and I think this is the same missal Canella here where you maybe you pop into that a couple of times, maybe you feel a little bit more expendable, even if obviously you've had you know they'll able to play in all that. The thing with Louis Perez I and we've said this kind of like, how does the XFL maintain here coming forward? You have to have some of these guys that are just going to be XFL or USFL.

You know, I either when you got to have these guys that their bodies moving forward that you know we're going to be there kind of mainstays. I'm moving on to the roughnex Year obviously, a team that you covered thoroughly here for new sub you got was it six year? My eyes or are hurting me? What do you make of this? And who are you looking for

from the Roughnecks? Yeah? I believe I have five on that list, but I will say, because I was there in all the home games this season, I would have probably put ten or fifteen because I love all those guys. And again this is where maybe a bit of my bias comes in. But regardless, this team still didn't have talent one way or another, you know, whether I'm biased or not. The guy really I wanted to point out here out of these five is the first name, Max Borgi,

running back from Washington State. You know, of course he was playing in a past first offense with A J. Smith, so didn't have a ton of yards and didn't he I think you only averaged three point nine yards per carry over the course of the season, which isn't exactly elite, But if you watched him during the season, you know, I'd like to say numbers

don't lie, but they also don't tell the full story. And he's one of these players that I think falls into this category because you know, he might have not had all the yards or all the you know, high averages or whatever, but he was you know, his runs were just so shifty, and especially his ability to run after the catch, you know, coming

out of the backfield. He was a great fit for that offense. And I really hope, you know, he was with three NFL teams last year in twenty twenty two after going undrafted, so he definitely didn't have time to really sit down and learn a playbook. He was bouncing around so much.

So I really hope that he can at least get into a camp and get some preseason reps and just stay with one team most importantly, you know, whether he latches onto an active roster or you know, which would be obviously the best thing, or even you know, just makes a practice squad or whatever. You know, I would hope that it's kind of just more consistent than when he was last in the NFL. So what's going on with John Trey? My mouth isn't working this John here? What's going on with him?

And obviously coming off of you know, the injuries and everything else, or what's he looking at? Yeah, So John Trey Kirkland was obviously invited to Giants mini camp, as I had you pointed out reported whatever, but I said specifically, he is not at a point yet where he is recovered to actually participate in Giants camp. So from what I understood from people on the inside was that you know, he was going to Giants camp just to meet with the coaches kind of talk things over. It was more of an

interview, right, something you do during the pre draft process. Perhaps, so he went in for the interview and it was assumed that he was going to be signed. As of now, he is yet to be signed. And again, I'm sure the injury probably has something to do with that. You know, even I am still sort of unclear on the severity. I've talked to John Trey on several occasions, and again a couple other people that

would know maybe more about that than I do. But the bottom line is it's going to take him some time, you know, and it might it might be one of these things that lingers into the summer, which is a real shame. You know. I really hope that he will sign or letch onto a practice squad at some point, but you know, whether he's actually be able to kind of fully participate in a training camp or you know, he might even miss time into the preseason, I'm not quite sure. So

that definitely kind of, you know, hinders his stock. I guess you would say, well, it's good, I mean people because people wanted to know, and obviously he was one of the standouts from the Roughnecks and then going down and whether the guys that people have been tragging down there. You also have Tim Warre trying to Harris and Alex Millett, any any other notes

on them. Um, yeah, so you know Tim Moore was obviously a guy that got banged up in the second half of the season, but um, you know him and him and Trent Harris were kind of that you know batman, Robin duo, whatever you want to call it. You know, one two punch, you know, coming off the edge. I mean that defensive law and was just ridiculous. And the two Roughnecks players that have signed to the NFL, CJ Brewer and Jack Heflin. Both of those guys are

defensive linemen. So that should tell you a lot about, you know, the strong point of this team, especially them being coached by Bill Johnson, who won a national championship at LSU in twenty nineteen. But anyway, yeah, Trent Harris was a guy I'm really surprised, you know that he hasn't

been signed. I think he's twenty seven or twenty eight now, but we all know the phenomenal season he had and you know he was definitely a candidate for Defensive Player of the Year. But you know, he went to Broncos mini camp and you know, he was there with other XFL guys Jockispatrick, Bendanucci, you name it. But unfortunately he has yet to sign a contract with them, so we'll see what happens. Again. I think he has

to latch on somewhere at some point. Again, this is one of those things where the rosters fill up, you kind of have to wait for a guy to you know, get cut or get injured, or whatever the case may be, for you know him to be able to come in and make an impact there. And then the last guy I think I had was Alex Millett who was invited to Seahawks mini camp and he was an incredibly good center.

Not the only center that I have on this list. I definitely tried to include a couple of offensive linemen and a lot of them ended up being centers because there were a lot of top end centers in this league. Center talent, I guess you'd say, and that is different than you know, tackle and guard and someone who you know analyzes football at different levels a lot.

You know, we can't just I think there's a common misconception where we just group all offensive linemen together, but there really is a difference, you know between again center, guard, tackle, and then even the sides of the line. I won't get too specific here obviously for time reasons, but Alex Mullett was an extremely good center this season, one of the best offensive

linemen in general. Again I just said, don't group all those guys together, but he was really one of the best offensive lineman on that team as a whole. You know, never missed the snap and he had really high PFF grades from my understanding. Again, all around, just a good player. I would hope that he was I think with the Colts last year, but he didn't end up getting signed. I think he was a final cut

there, so I hope he gets back. Well, i'mlike R. J. Young, we do like our offensive linemen and lineen here on the market. So what was that when he had this Like all USFL players who whatever, he had no offensive linemen on there though, So we have your guardians a couple guys, maybe not as surprising, just with some of the roster building that maybe the Guardians would have it. Maybe just if you lest it would stand out who do you have here? Yeah, so I have two

players on this list. Although I only have two players, there's a third player I'd like to give a shout out to, and that's Cody Lattimer, the tight end who, alongside Salconella, was probably the best tight end in the XFL. You know, he's thirty now, so again with the NFL kind of favoring age the way they do, I really don't think he's going to come back, whether this was the last time that he played football or he comes back to the XFL. Last year. He hinted at that kind

of in a post I think at some point. But yeah, Cody Lattimer was an extremely good player's second round pick in twenty fourteen. I believe he was with the Broncos again. You know, it was good to see him because you know, this was his first time playing really since twenty nineteen. I believe he was with the Commanders in the twenty twenty off season, but obviously there was no preseason and then he got cut and then this is kind of the first chance he's had to play in a while. So special shout

out to him. He's a great player obviously on Max's list there, but I just think again, this is where age kind of plays a role, and it would be a real stretch to bring him, you know, into a camp give and all the other tight end talent is just younger. And then you also have here in Jamma Martin and Macbrown here at Plant Roleness. Yeah, so Jamaine Martin again, I kind of thought he was going to

be the guy. Devin Darrington kind of ended up, you know, being I guess the main ball carrier there, and then he went to Commander's camp as well, you know, but Jamaine Martin was a guy was really excited about during the pre draft process. I think it was last year coming out from North Carolina, Ant. You know, HBCUs school we're trying to build up, so it's more HBCU representation. The XFL alone has done a great job of that, you know, with their HBCUs HBCU excuse B showcases.

Last year they had one at Jackson State obviously when Dion Sanders was there. This year they're doing it at Clark Atlanta University in Georgia, which is a Division two program. But yeah, you know, Jamine Martin again didn't exactly flash a ton this year, but I feel like you know, he still

has enough to where he could maybe get another look. And then mac Brown again another punter m from Ole Miss. You know mac Brown obviously, I think kind of got some u clout this year, you would say, for you know, his little trick plays and touchdowns and big passes and that was all that was really fun at the end of the season. There, you know, Trell Buckley trying to shake things up for the Guardians, get something going, get something exciting, and mac Brown really brought that um again.

You know, punter. We've talked about it before and I'll say it again just to you know, really bring the point home. That's one of those positions where you know they're only a team is only going to have one. It's not like receiver where they carry you know, maybe six on the active roster, five and then a couple more on the practice one. You know, you kind of have to be that guy. So I don't know if

mac Brown was necessarily like the best punter in the XFL. But again, it's kind of like Mark hit King, just one of those fun stories where it would be nice to just see him, you know, come in for maybe a game or two at some point and you know, just show what he has. Yeah, that was because some of the highlights are in the Guardians season. Moving on the Brown here you have you have Calvin turn and Delonte Scott. What stands out about them? And I'll flip over here to

the other list as well we can see. Yeah, so Calvin Turner heading into this season was one of the most exciting players you know, that I had personally. It's unfortunately because he didn't really end up playing this season. I think he might have been active for he might have been around for a game or two, but he spent most of the season on the reserve list.

And you know, obviously I think personally I think that had he played, he would have made a big difference in that Brahma's offense, which continuously struggled really regardless of the quarterback throughout the season. But yeah, Calvin Turner, you know, a really great talent, kind of a hybrid player running back slash wide receiver. I think he projected more wide receiver in the XFL, especially with the Brahms running back room there with Jock was Patrick and Klin

Balage. But you know, he had also taken snaps at quarterback in college at one point I think at Jacksonville before he came over to Hawaii. And then again, he's just a really electric talent and I hope he's one of these guys again. You know, maybe he gets another shot in the NFL. But I would be really excited if he came back to the Brahmas in twenty twenty four and kind of really you know, showed why you know he still is there because like again, he didn't have that chance this year.

He was injured and that was really, to be honest, it was almost devastating to me again just because you know, he was like, honestly a top five player for me going into this XFL season. Maybe that's a bit high, you know, I can debate that with people whatever, but again that's just my personal opinion. And then Delante Scott, you know, defensive end, outside linebacker, edge rusher from SMU, you know, kind of wherever we want to put that. Again, he was phenomenal to watch all

season. I think his kind of production in twenty twenty three speaks for itself. So I'm not going to talk about that for too long, but yeah, him, Calvin Turner and Delante Scott were my two guys and then Max as Drew Beasley there as well, who was definitely a good player coming here. With the defenders, I shouldn't surprise here, you know, some of the highest number coming from really winning the standout teams and organizations in the XFL.

Who are the couple that you wanted to touch on here? From the defend there's obviously Tamu and Derek King and everyone else. Yeah, so well, this is where it gets a bit interesting, at least for me, because here I have two quarterbacks. We haven't talked about quarterbacks yet. Obviously, you know, the league goes beyond quarterbacks. I shouldn't have to say that, and I mean I myself have been guilty of talking about quarterbacks for

too long. But with the defenders, I think both of their guys honestly deserve chances, especially team you know, we had a debate, I think kind of throughout the season, especially with talmu slow start and their reliance on the ground game in DC, you know, whether or not this was kind of like his last gasp. But then again, second half of the season there was a huge uptick in production and for me, that was enough to

at least warrant him another chance. In camp again similar situation here, do I think Louis Perez where Tamu has been in a lot of these spring leagues, and he might just want to settle down and be like, you know what, like you know, me moving to another state to just go for a couple months or maybe sit on the practice squad isn't really worth it. I'd rather just again stay here, kind of build the team throughout the offseason with the coaches, build a program, whatever you want to call it.

So I think, you know, but he's still in my opinion, you know, whether he wants to do that or not isn't up to me. But I think it would have hurt for him to just you know, get a couple more preseason reps, you know, and then come back in twenty twenty four. And then the other guy had too was the other quarterback, Derrett King, one of my again personal favorite players who split his time in college between Houston and Miami. You know, he worked out with the Patriots.

I think at wide receiver last year after going undrafted didn't really work out. You know, I still think he has a slim chance of playing quarterback in the NFL. I mean, he might have to still take reps in other positions if he really wants to last, like through a training camp. And that's nothing against him. Again, it's just one of these things where

you know, the NFL favors. Again we talked about age, but like size, you know, Derrek King's a very a small guy and you could see that, and of course that works out in college better, but once you get to the pros, you know, you kind of have to fill in a more knee role because like Derek played this season in DC, but he wasn't necessarily the starter. And then it was very odd when they didn't play him in the championship game at all. A lot of people thought that

was strange. Um, but yeah, he was another guy. And then, um, I think I had a couple offensive lineman on there too. Yeah, Liam Fournadell, who I believe was on the All XFL team, from James Madison, Mike my Eddie, another center from Missouri who you know might have been for me, the most impressive offensive lineman on that team. And then the last two guys. I mean, Abram Smith speaks for itself. He was the first overall pick in the XFL draft and I guess that

was November now, which that's crazy to think about. It does, man, it really does. But yeah, Abram Smith again, you know XFL leading rusher. You know that was a home run pick by Von Hutchins and crew. I won't go on about that for too long. And the same with Francis Bernard. He was a guy who went undrafted with the Cowboys, spent two seasons with them, I think between twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, played in a couple of games. You know, he's got a couple

of career NFL regular season tackles to his name. Um, but he was a guy who really trust me again this year or two, and I think he deserves the shot to go back and at least, you know, stay on a practice squad for another year. Yeah we're talking, I mean, at least right now. Some of these guys like you know, Tiamu or Perez to these guys bouncing back and forth at least with the hub model kind of the same we've seen with mccabel Thomson with the usbelt. Like maybe it

isn't the worst thing. Like you know, you moved to Texas, it's not as expensive to live. You don't have to live in Seattle or any of these more expensive cities. You could have your family there kind of training and maybe coach in the off season. I don't know. It's something to think about where the hub model, although not ideal for like everything, it does allow some some more simplicity when it comes to like well, you know,

we could kind of position everyone there and work through that. Ce Dragons here, Jakor Pierson obviously people know that name. What do you make of him and the others stand out? See Dragons players. Yeah, so Jakor Pierson, I mean again, you know, he was phenomenal this season. I think a lot of people who weren't kind of you know, in tune with the XFL would probably assume Josh Gordon would have been, you know, the receiver on that team, just given his pedigree. But Jakor Pearson,

you know, I think was really a step ahead of him. That's nothing against Josh Gordon, but just to kind of, you know, prove a point, like sometimes just because you have a big name doesn't mean you know you're going to be the best player even at your position on your own team in a league like this. Because Jakor Pearson, again one of these smaller guys, but he really emerged, you know, split his time in college between I think well Ole Miss for one. I think the other school is

Western Kentucky. But he's gotten looks now from both the forty nine ers and the Seahawks, and I would expect him to be signed soon. I can't imagine, you know, a world where he at least doesn't you know, get into a training camp because he really I mean, he was just so flashy the season and again he really proved I mean, you know, he's five foot seven playing outside receiver. You don't see that very often. Again, that's one of those things where you might see it in college, but

translating it to the pros typically that's not going to work out. But for him, you know, if he finds himself in the right offense, Like again, I thought he would be a great fit in San Francisco, and they've already worked him out and you know, seeing some of his practice tape from the Niners camp, it looked really good. I think Shanahan must have been really impressed with him. So we'll see what happens again. You know,

he's with UM. You know, he got invited to work out with the Seahawks as well, and you know, obviously that would be kind of cool just having a Sea Dragons Seahawks connection. I think especially you Reid would appreciate that. But then the other guy had was Antoine Brooks, the safety for Maryland. He was kind of all around this year. I think he was the guy that had that you know, ridiculous interception against DC where it kind of you know, he kind of came down with it, it was

tipped or whatever. I'd have to go back and look at that. You know, there's so many players who have to talk about you know, my memory kind of gets a bit foggy. But yeah, regardless, Antoine Brooks was definitely impressive this year and one of these guys that I believe he might have been a draft pick in the NFL. I would have to go back and you know fact check that. But um, you know came out of Maryland. I'm surprised he wasn't on the Roughnecks actually, because you know,

our defensive coordinator Brian Stewart came from Maryland. We had a plenty of Maryland guys, including Sean Davis who used to play safety for the Pittsburgh Steelers. But that's kind of a just a you know, side note, but yeah, those were the two guys who wanted to highlight from the street Dragons. There would definitely be more, but honestly, you know, six of their players have already sought with the NFL, so I kind of, you know,

had to be. I was looking at the roster and I was like, geez, you know, like a lot of the names I want to talk about are already gone. They've already signed you know, wherever, including d Nuchi. So well that's the thing. And you talk about, you know, Jakurb Pierson versus Josh Gordon, it is interesting that you know, Josh hasn't at least for my knowledge, gone a lot of looks following the season, right, and obviously Philip Lindsay coming in as well as kind of

that veteran. Hey, we're gonna try to get over the hump here, like you know, I know, at some point it's a lot of DOMINISI he returns with some of these older guys going back to the league and trying to kind of rebuild their stock. In terms of we got two more teams here in terms of the ballot Hawks who no surprise long list here who stands out. Um yeah, so I'll just kind of go down the list accordingly.

Here. I think I've got five names for this one too, and then five names for the Vipers. So we're getting into some longer lists now. But the first guys, Mateo, do you know kind of filled a secondary role behind Brian Hill, but did have a couple you know, key moments when Brian Hill was injured, you know, stepped up and he was invited to New York Jets minicamp, I believe, and um, you know, our colleague Pat Rifino wrote an article about that. Um. Yeah.

The two guys here that I really want to focus on or the receivers Austin Prole or Darius Shepherd. Prole obviously was a guy who was in XFL twenty twenty. He's bounced around a bit, you know, doing this and that, and you know, got to play for his dad this year in the XFL. You know, his dad was coaching receivers coach there in Saint Louis, which was awesome, especially because his dad played for the Rams too and

they won that Super Bowl. And there was that picture of him, you know as a baby with his uh maybe not a baby, but a toddler and you know his dad was on the field and they won the Super Bowl and what a full circle moment that was. Um. And then Darius Shepherd obviously, you know again just electric this year All XFL performer, especially in the return department. And you know, it's so key if you want to

move up to the NFL to be able to play special teams. Um, you know, all these guys that are trying to make a fifty three or even to practice squad, you know, it's so important to have not just special teams experience, but to be willing to play it again, you know what I mean. And Shephard kind of showed like not only can he you know, be a weapon on offense, but you know he can be a

weapon in the return department on special teams. Again, that's a huge deal when it comes to guys you know, signing from spring leagues to the NFL and even out of college too. You know, these guys that go undrafted or you know, maybe your late seventh round picks or whatever. And then yeah, the last two guys I had on their Lavert Hill from Michigan believe he was an All XFL performer too. And then Mike Panna shook the offensive center. I guess, just center from Michigan State. You know, I

believe he played defensive line in college. And you know, he got to play against his brother the XFL, which was really cool. But again another center that really stood out. And I know he might be a bit older now, but I hope that he too can again just find his way into a camp. At least it's for all these guys. And I will say this before we move on to our last team, which is Vegas. You know, a lot of these guys that's going to be difficult to just make

the active roster right out of camp. You can't deny that. That's hard for anybody. You know, it's fighting for a spot. But as long as these guys can just get signed, you know, get some reps, you know, get into camp, get into preseason, you know, maybe stay on the practice squad for the course of twenty twenty three, and then you know, whether or not they come back to the XFL, that'll be up to them, you know, or if they kind of just hang around

in the NFL like that's not up to me. But I just hope that, you know, the point here is not to say, all these guys are going to be on NFL active rosters, and you know that's just an unrealistic assumption. But yeah, I mean the bottom line is, again, as long as these guys can at least just get some sort of reps at

the NFL level, that would be important. Thirty seconds of thought about AJ McCarron, I think he's obviously another one you like Perez here, let's build something here where it's really kind of invest I don't see him bouncing back. I mean, obviously he turned down the contract. What do you make about AJ mccarren. Brief thoughts. Yeah, mccaren's a guy that I think is going to stay around now. Had you asked me that at the beginning of the season, I said, nah, he would have been in an NFL

camp by this point. But um, you know, it's clear again age is one of these things. You know, AJ really really appreciated his time in the XFL. You can just tell that by his demeanor and the whole point of him being there was to you know, watch his kids play, and he can happily do that again next year. I mean, he's already made so much money through the NFL, you know, having won all those national championships Alabama, being a draft pick, hanging around for you know,

X many seasons. You know, I think he was drafted in twenty fourteen, maybe maybe earlier than that, but yeah, he's been around for a long time, and at this point, you know, I think his kids enjoyed seeing him play. His entire family really it's it's a personal thing. So it would be great to have him back in twenty twenty four, and

I know Beck is definitely open to that. I'm sure everyone on that coaching staff and the rest of the team that's going to be there in twenty twenty four is opening that because he was a phenomenal talent and he definitely played with

a lot of emotion. Again, given all the given his circumstance, I guess this year, well, I see him very easily transitioning intil Ballehawks just coaching staff, you know here and if he I mean he was already basically kind of working with Bruce and colin the plays and all that last year we had the vibers Yale McClendon, a couple of friends at this show here, jepidet Deance Anderson who joined us for our our I guess it was our championship

pregame show who stands out from the vipers there? Yeah, so Jelle McClendon. You know, this one can be debated. He was invited to Bill's minicamp along with Quinton Dormity from the Guardians, again two sort of underdogs in the XFL. You know at New sub we're talking about our underdog award.

It came down to Joe McClendon or Quinton Dormity because those guys, you know, kind of took I guess you'd say bottom end teams and at least made them somewhat competitive in the in the this kind of later part of the season. But um, yeah, McClendon, you know, it's a long shot for him. He was last I think he bounced around. It was with you know, Washington and then maybe Baltimore in twenty nineteen, and then obviously

he was with the Wildcats in XFL twenty twenty. You know, I've gone on record, you know, talking about how that Joey Clinks Jales connection with him being the DPP in Vegas really helped him out this year more than any because like I don't think people understand, you know, how crazy it was for Jalen mcclennon to come in and play like that because he had really, you know, he had maybe played like a combined I don't know, like

at most it's probably thirty snaps between NFL preseason and XFL twenty twenty. I mean, he was just not there a lot. So to see him, you know, go out there and really, you know, prove everybody wrong. You know, he was even a step above Brett Hundley, you could argue, and I know, the whole Hunley situation is still kind of weird.

We don't know exactly what happened to him, whether it was injury or he had a problem with the coaching staff, but even then, like it was clear, you know, he was better than Brett Hundley, even when Hundley was playing, and that you know, raised a question, you know, maybe they should have just stuck with him the whole season. Of course, Prez was there and eventually they traded him. So it was a complex

issue. But the bottom line is, you know, Jaylee mcclennon, I do think again deserves to be at least in an NFL preseason, and you know, when it comes to quarterbacks, We've mentioned it already on this show, just kind of like like the Louis Pres and the Jordan towns of the world. Maybe it's better if he comes back in twenty twenty four and just develops and stays there, you know, with the coaching staff or whatever.

But you know, the good what am I gonna say? The chances are that, you know, he goes to an NFL camp, you know, maybe gets cut after that or preseason he's maybe a final cut, and then he just comes right back into everything in September, so he wouldn't have ended

up missing that much time. That's the key thing here too, with all these players, if they want to come back in twenty twenty four, you know, if you don't make it past final cuts, you know, final cuts at the end of August, early September, like it's not that far away, you're not gonna be dragged out for months, you know, and then you're not gonna have to make some you know, key decision, Like

right before the XFLS he's like, Okay, am I gonna play? You know, because you're gonna have a lot of time to think about it during the NFL season. If you're a free agent, as long as you don't get signed me a practice squad or whatever. But anyway, that's kind of different tangent for another time. Um. The other guys I have on this list DeAndre Torrey, running back from North Texas again kind of in a somewhat reserve role with Vegas, but you know, he only went, um,

he went he only went undrafted last year. Uh, you know, signed with the Michigan Panthers. You know, he kind of took the spring football route immediately as opposed to you know, testing the waters with the NFL and then you know, from there he went to Eagles camp and then now he surfaced back in spring football. I think he, you know, deserves another shot, even if the numbers weren't incredible. Jeff Bedett from Oklahoma. Um, you know, I mean Bedet is one of these guys that we've always

pulled for, you know, incredible individual, incredible human. UM this season really I think for him, and I don't want to take the words out of his mouth, but it really felt like it was sort of um,

how do I how do I put this? It was like a you know, hard work pays off type of thing, and maybe that just sounds you know, very vague, But what I mean here is like, you know, he dealt with several injuries, and he was on your show talking about, you know, in the USFL last year, you know, he was depressed, you know, being away from home, home at the hub and

whatever. That formattress didn't work for him, you know. And then in the XFL in twenty twenty, he was with the Rennagades, but he dealt with injuries there too, and it's just, you know, he's always kind of been dealt, you know, the wrong cards, if you know what I mean. And finally, for once, even if his team didn't win that many games, you know, he still had a lot of tape and a lot of you know, highlights to show, you know, for and

I think again he's an older guy. Now it's been a couple of years since he was in the NFL, but this is one of those things where it's like just one more chance, you know, like if he gets one more camp or whatever, I think that would be really good to see because he, in my opinion, is incredibly deserving of that opportunity. Yeah yeah, yeah, very unhappy with this time with the USFL, and I think very happy that he could play when he said on the show, he said,

I just I need one season uninjured. Let me get my tape, let me get my highlights. And he certainly did that exactly. Yep, and that's that's exactly what he did. So good for him, you know, love Jeff. Great guy. Anyway, Um, last two guys on this list. Peter Thoma Panu, you know XFL Defensive player of the Year from Utah. You know, Peter was you know, I think NFL scouts had eyes on him, you know, throughout the entire season, and it

would be great, you know, to see Peta. You know, to me, he could be one of these guys that he one of the few that ends up just making the active roster right out of a training camp, because to me, he really was that impressive, and it would be a great story, you know, for the XFL to have a guy, you know, make an impact on an NFL team in the regular season after his team in the XFL Wasn't that great, you know what I mean, Because

sometimes there's a misconception where it's like, you know, the champion or you know, the playoff teams are going to have more players go to the NFL. I don't necessarily think that's true, you know, and again that's not to you know, fault any teams or to say that, you know, certain teams don't have NFL caliber players, because at the end of the day, you know, I'd say a large majority of the players in these leagues,

whether it's XFL, USFL or CFL or NFL caliber. But yeah, I mean, you know, a guy like Peter tamil Panio, I could definitely see him, you know, making an active roster. Um. You know, the performance, you know, spoke for itself in the in the league. It was a bit surprising to see him win defensive player that Y're out right, you know, I would have pulled for Trent Harris again, whether I'm biased or not, but a couple other people were surprised. Who

are you know, well versed in the space. UM. And then the last guy had on that list was yeah, Deontay Anderson. And that's someone you know, I've been talking to a lot lately. You know, love Deontay. Obviously he was on yours show at the river walking San Antonio there for the championship. UM. You know, Dante's interesting. You know, he went to Raiders mini camp two years ago. They tried him out a linebacker because I believed he played linebacker his senior season at Houston didn't work out,

you know, he doesn't like playing linebacker on the inside. Um. This season to me and the XFL proved that he can't play safety at a higher level, you know, because he was the UM leading tackler amongst defensive backs. But he also had I think nine pass deflections. Um. You know, again, I see him, like, you know, he proved that he can play in cover. She's not just a guy you know that moves up front on the line. He can definitely you know, play further

back and kind of you know, fill a coverage role. Um. So we'll see what happens again. You know. I know he just got an agent and he's working through things. Um. But UM, you know, I would definitely be excited, you know, to see him at least again just getting a camp and I know he's content with coming back in twenty twenty

four if it does come to that. And I think a lot of these guys again that we're talking about, I brought it up earlier, you know, guys that that go you know, even if they do go to NFL camps, that doesn't necessarily mean they're done with the XFL forever. They can easily come back in twenty twenty four make an impact. I mean, you saw it in the USFL. You know, guys who went who were in the first season in the USFL last year went to NFL camps and then came

back to the USFL after didn't work out. And there's nothing wrong with that, right. It's all about you know, getting reps and further in your Career's everyone always says, you know, when they're a kid, you know, I want to play in the NFL. And you know, whether you count preseason reps or a training camp, is you know, playing in the

NFL again. That's something that's debated a lot, I think in circles, but you know, the bottom line is like, yeah, if you're gonna you know, if the NFL calls and you're playing in the XFL, you know you're definitely gonna take that opportunity. And it's great to see the XFL promote that. That's the other thing I'll bring up here, you know, as we close this out, I think is just you know, the league. I mean, I think we said during the season they might have pushed

the narrative a bit too much. You know, it's like, oh, well, this guy, you know, it was all about the NFL and not about you know, his actual production on his XFL team, And to an extent, I agree with that, but it's also good, you know, to not see the league just completely shy away. Again, I think some of their partnerships help, like with the NFL Alumni Academy. You know,

they have a strong connection there personnel wise. So yeah, ultimately, you know, I think it's good that the league is and again, you know they're posting. You know, when guys sign in the NFL, could they do maybe a better job, you know, with that being more consistent, you know, perhaps you could argue that way. But again, like every time a player gets signed, you know, like they have been, you know, posting like on xflp or they'll make the graphic, they'll put

it up on the XFL socials. You know, yeah, like this guy. You know, it's like XFL and NFL, And I think the greatest thing that they've done really so far with that is, um, you know, they're doing YouTube stuff with that. They're making you know, these little short documentaries, like they had a couple of the DPPs talking like Von Hutchins, you know, Randy Mueller, Mark lily Bridge, you know, going on about you know, some of their players that really impressed them. You

know. It's kind of like a players spotlight, and that helps NFL teams too, you know, just to get an idea of what they're looking at. So I think, yeah, again, all around it, it's a great structure there. Yeah, I think just to wrap this up, I think, you know, like you said, pushed a little too hard the

narrative. I think if the XFL and the USFL could change it a little bit where you know, for however many decades now it's kind of like it's the NFL or bust and you're if you're don't make it to the NFL,

you'r sol and your life is over. Like changing the narrative. Like no, like we are creating these other places, like these landing spots for you, whether you do want to play there for years, you want to play here for a year, you want to play here for a few weeks, kind of get back, just to not have it be this all er bust kind of thing. I think is important to kind of build that narrative around and you know we're working on and I think both these leagues are still trying

to figure out how they want to frame that. Evan and tremendous work here, you know, under your knowledge of all of these players stands. I know I talked with like Dorothy afterwards, like how do they know all these people? I said, you know, this is what Evan does. I appreciate Max putting the list together as well. Some notes on there, Evan, anything else for me before we get out of here. Yeah, I'll just go off your point quickly again about you know, sort of these guys,

you know, building resumes through these leagues. You know, the one thing that I thought was really cool was, you know, especially from the spring football standpoint, you know, there were guys who won the championship with the Arlington Rennagads this year that we're on the Birmingham Stallions in the USFL last year. You know, Doug Coasting, Victor Bolden, there was a couple other guys. But anyway, you know, you know, guys aren't able

to win championships in these leagues. Now, you know that wasn't a thing a couple of years ago, Like the last time you had that was you know really the UFL. I mean, yeah, the spring League had theirs, but you know where does the spring league fall again? You can argue with that, but like the AF never completed their season, you know, L twenty their season. So now you finally see guys. I think they're

able to be more emotionally attached. That's what I really hope for, you know, these players as the leagues move forward, it's like they can really get attached to these teams. And it's not just about you know, waiting on that call from the NFL. You know, I'm just here in the meantime. It's like, well, you know, you might end up playing here for like two three years, so you know, really trying, you know, commit to the team. And I'm not saying guys aren't committed.

I'm just saying I think it depends a lot on and I've talked about this with other people. It depends for the player, you know, whether they've been in the NFL or not before, Because some guys have had a ton of NFL experience. Look at like more Tavis Bryant, that Josh Gordons of the world, and then I don't know, you look at maybe like a Bryson, a lean who's never really touched the NFL. So there's a couple of different perspectives there, but the bottom line is, you know, the

more emotionally attached guys get, the better the football will be. At least that's what I think personally. Yeah, I think you can just feel like your heart is a little bit more protected to be invested in this now, just with the success the USFL has had and now with the XFL completely like, you know, you're not wasting your time here, I'm not. I

can be invested. I can be a part of this. I could Like we've talked with Ag McCarron and the Luis prez or too, I'll be like, I feel like I could build something here for a couple of years and kind of know what's going to be around. Evan with news up. Appreciate it all season. I'm sure we'll do lots more of this throughout the summer, but really appreciate your time to that. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me on read This was definitely fun to talk about some players. As

always it always is. Well, we're gonna have good Beard energy on the

podcast today. I feel like we have Furbie here normally we have Justin Freeman overt run the SIMS. Today Justin said Furby is the guy we're talking to. We're getting us about week eight and everything else. How are you doing, sir, good? How are you doing? Read? I'm good? So what are you know? We're here approaching week eight? Pat Raffino and I've been kind of doing our you know, Monday recaps through the last a little bit. What are you making of USFL season two? It's good.

It's a lot like season one. I thought they might like kind of spice it up a little bit, you know. Year one, you know, they you kind of give them a free pass on some stuff. But then a year two you think you might make some changes, and so far it's kind of felt exactly the same. Starting to feel a little formulaic, you know, I for some reason in the Psycho and leave all the notifications on

on Twitter for all the teams to get the notifications and stuff. But so I start to see, you know, it's like the same tweet over and over for all the teams. You kind of wonder if that's a little bit of Fox, you know, if you ever watch like a Fox sitcom, you know, season eleven it kind of becomes very formulaic, and maybe that's kind of what they want. You know, they want this you know, four TV product, you know, so they're not really necessarily trying to switch

it up. Did you watch or enjoy the XVl this year. I did, and I think it kind of had you know, it was in its first year two, so you know, it kind of had the new car smell. All. So now USFL, you know, I don't think it's stale necessarily, but you know, it's it's in its second year, so I think the football is good. Though I'm a known supposed USFL hater on here, and so it's either gays got to walk in line with that. No. But you know I've said I don't always agree with the XFL's personality,

right. I think sometimes they try to be a little bit too serious. You know that the broadcast people have issues with the ESPN broadcast, But at least it feels like it has a little bit of an identity where it does feel like this is, like you said, not I wouldn't say stayable, like this is stafe, Like we have four games that are very family friendly and you can watch and you kind of know what to expect and uh, it's kind of like pizza and it's always going to be fine, but

it might not be exceptional or poor. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think XFL maybe they're trying to build a little more and I think USFL probably kind of content, you know, having it like this, This is a TV spot for Saturday Sunday. As long as their ratings are good, They're not going to leave money on the table, you know, but they're not maybe not quite as willing to take some of their risks, you know, moving cities out of the hub into their hometowns, stuff like that.

So we had the USFL had the press conference this morning. This will air obviously Friday, but kind of previewing the playoffs and you know, okay, we've got this going on to Canton and everything else. Are really championing the parody of all eight teams. So it's also kind of up in the air going in, what have you made at the level of competition with the parody of the all eight teams. I'm fine with a parody. I just

think everyone some of the teams just kind of lack identity. And the XFL you kind of had the Defenders run first, or defense was really good. You had the roughnecks. You know, they're just gonna sling it. Seattle is just going to sling it around the field. I don't mind everyone having the same wins and losses, kind of close in the standings, but I just don't know if they have the identity that they did last year, even you feel like when you think they had more of an identity in season one,

I think so. And you don't want teams like Pittsburgh last year where they're just terrible and a little bit like Orlando in the XFL, or that's not even competitive. You certainly always want competitive. But I just look, you know, you look at you know, rushing yards per game, and there's a few outliers, but almost everybody's within, you know, forty fifty

yards of each other after seven weeks. In terms of teams, you know carried over obviously, either like stars kind of feel like they're finding their footing now. You know, Birmingham's looked good, where we had kind of New Orleans was the standout. Now they're kind of falter. And I blame I had McLoud on the show a couple of weeks ago, so I blame the kind of undefeated ray and ending on that. But what teams have you been

impressed by thus far coming in to the season. Uh, I think I was really high on the Breakers to start, Like you said, they've they've kind of tapered off a little bit. Uh, the Panthers have shown spurts, and the Gamblers I guess have shown spurts of being a pretty good team. But uh, like you said, the parody kind of makes everybody kind

of a muddle. You know. Well, I think the Stallions uh, you know, are the cream cream of the crop in the South there though, so feeling like they're they're kind of finally they had a little bit going early on, but now, yeah, Mgoo's looking good everything else. I mean, what's what's sit it out to you about the Stallions? Uh?

Really just McGoo. I mean he's clearly the MVP so far, you know, and he hasn't really separated uh through the air, but just standing back, he just he's calm, He's making plays, he'll scramble, he's not looking to run first, but he just converts third downs, you know, runs when they need him, you know, makes it look easy right now. In terms of the breakers that McCleod. Have you been impressed. Did

you track any of his cflness before he came into the league. I didn't track him in the CFL, and lots of times, you know, those stats are hard to translate. You know, you always think, oh, he's coming from the CFL, he's going to do really good. You know, it's kind of doesn't always translate like people expect it to be. Like Triple A baseball. You go to MLB, you're gonna like have a certain ratio, and it's not always like that. With CFL. Some guy just

kind of it translates better, and sometimes it doesn't. So I wasn't sure how all that was going to work out. And at first it looked pretty good, and they've kind of, I don't know what it is, you know, they just hit a wall a little bit. It seems like the stats are still there for the most part, but they're just kind of not making some of the third down, fourth downs. Makes it look a little bit worse than it is. It seems, you know, we've kind of

pontificated. Maybe it's he's hitting the wall kind of coming off of the CFL and fatigue and plane and I mean that's something with these spring leagues. And obviously he had the time off from November, but you know, he was inured in the Gray Cup, takes time off, you know, gets his hand figured out, comes back in here, and it does seem like it's not really the same energy that was going in the first you know, four

or five weeks. Yeah. And I mean that team in general has been pretty banged up and getting late, and guys that aren't hurt, like Hills has just been having a massive workload. You gotta think there's gonna be some feet tigue there as well. And you know Dixon was hurt, and you know, he's a big part of the offense. You know, I think they're starting to come back around. Uh, you know, they were pretty

close. Every game has been close, you know, you know, a couple of you know, a touchdown, Yeah, a couple of plays each game. And we're not really having this conversation with coach c Filippo. Have you, you know, as the first year kind of spring football coach here figuring all this out, have you been impressed with his work? I have. I think I prefer seeing the first year guys rather than you know, some of the old you know, NFL veterans, guys that are on their

way up rather than kind of on their way out. You know, sometimes they're I think they're just kind of looking the old guys or more looking for, you know, just a nine to five job. They're probably not grinding film U twelve thirty in the morning on a Tuesday night. I think you see that with maybe last year with a couple of the coaches, but Larry

Fedora maybe a little bit there. Yeah, it turns it Todd Hailey here, uh twerquing in the locker room now the team undefeated or are we liking with coach Hailey has been putting together with the show butts, I mean it's working apparently, But I kind of had Haley pegged. It's one of those coaches maybe last year. But I think you're seeing a little bit more that, you know, he's not just you know, sitting on the ball, you know, he I think he does want to win. And they've made

I think seven of eight fourth downs in the last four games. I mean, things that aren't sustainable. But it's certainly been fun, you know, seeing that turnaround. A lot of a lot of positive vibes. Obviously a lot of parody here in the South, especially, do you I mean, you know, gamblers kind of trying to find their footing with you Bahar and everything else. What do you make of you know, Stallion's figure number one, who's going to get that second seed in the South? Yeah, it

certainly Stallions up top. I think the Breakers will figure it out, you know. I kind of think the show Boats will be a little closer to the first two games than the last first three games rather than the last four. But it'll be somewhere in the middle. But and I same with the gamblers. I see Stallion's been on top and then the Breakers. In terms of here Stars, you're kind of finally figuring out what they want to do. Panthers still can't win at home, and they've even talked about that today

on the USFL press conference. I thought that was funny. They were a little self aware of that. But you know, General's really kind of out of it. We had DeAndre Johnson get banged up, and the maller is here continuing the mall is it Stars Panthers without a doubt here or what do you make of the North? I think definitely Stars, and then I think Panthers, But I don't know if Love has more up games than down games. They also just signed j Perry, so that could be interesting. Yeah,

do you like Love? Do you like Love as a quarterback? I don't think. I think he's looked all right, I think, but I wouldn't mind seeing a change there. I was surprised they didn't give Barrier a little more look, but they obviously had no interest and seeing I thought Barrier looked pretty good last year, you know, kind of gave them to two dimensions, but they weren't interested there. So you know, he's on the

Generals now, so without DeAndre, maybe he'll get a shot there. Yeah, honestly, you know, it really seems like they're kind of grasping at Strazer. Generals obviously had to make a move with that. But I don't know if it's too little too late here to kind of refresh there, you know, Is that enough time to get him in and get going here before the end of the season. I don't know. I guess At worked with Perez and Arlington, but I don't know that Barrier is Perez kind of a

very different player. And they haven't put Deander Johnson on the an active list yet. Now he was d NP yesterday with concussion and it it would be really bad optics. You know, after the scene, you know, looked really bad, went to the hospital, you know, kind of had like kind of two of vibes where it would look really bad if he played, you know, put the league kind of risk a little bit. But I

would expect him to be back within a couple of weeks. So so I would imagine they stick with him going forward because we letta just have not looked very good. I'd be curious to kind of how they handle him in terms of, you know, with the active bonuses and things, you know, like I don't know if that goes into that. I think they had that last year with when Brian Scott got injured and they kind of kept him on. I don't know. I think they do a little bit of tweaking like

that to make sure guys are getting paid a little bit more. I don't know if that goes into it at all, if they just want to keep him on and not worry about transferring that out. But something to kind of keep in mind there with the generals in terms of the matchups here we have going into the weekend Week eight, you know, this might not be the prettiest matchup here than nine them Pacific USA. Of the Gamblers Muellers. Who do you have in this one? Gamblers are favored by three, and I

think that seems about right at that line. I'd probably go with the Gamblers. But both teams are one and two in pressures and sacks, and the Mallers have taken the second most sacks in the league, so it might be pretty ugly in terms of offense. It's weird. It's weird that. Yeah, the legacy of the Mallers has kind of continued on here. Yeah, right, horrid and everything else. I'd be able to turn that around that Stars Stallions, this might be the standout game of the weekend here on the

NBC. I think this is going to do pretty well radiance wise that noon Pacific here with the Stars at Birmingham. What are you making of this one? Yeah, this could very well be championship preview. Stars are favored by a touchdown almost, But so Stallions are over the Stars, and I think the story is the Stars offensive line. They were just atrocious through five games, and then the last two games they allowed zero sacks to the Mallers and

then one sack to the Breakers looking a lot better. They could not get the ball going at all in the ground. And then last two weeks, you know, they've kind of gotten Colburn. You know, it's kind of the lead dog now. Dexter Willness was mixing in some but it looks kind of like all Colburn now and they're doing a lot better the last a couple of weeks. Well, Corpan's been great. I mean he's been good. We tracked him all the way through everything going up, big, good,

good pieces there. It feels like they're finally getting right here. Slow starred and I don't know if Case was slow coming back or a Bart was kind of snoozy on the sidelines. It feels like they're finally kind of getting their footing here. Yeah, definitely. In terms of here, the June fourth Sunday Double Fox, I think the ratiings will obviously peak up over last week. We've had probably a season low here for the USBL ratings coming out of

week seven. But the Showboats at the Generals here, I have to imagine the showboats are favorite. Yeah, well, the show Boats are two point dogs now. For some reason, it opened as the Showboats his favorites, and now it's flipped that the Generals are two point favorites. And I couldn't figured that one out either. I don't know if it was a DeAndre Johnson thing or so. I would certainly be on the Showboats side of that.

I would bet that immediately. I mean, you have your your sad quarterback injured here, and yeah, I mean I guess the trade them all that. But I certainly don't think that they bring that up here that quick. I don't think that seems odd to me. It is the home field advantage of Tom Benson that great. No, But yeah, they're Generals are two point favorites right now, and then here Michigan Michigan at New Orleans. It's

probably the other standout game. I think the Fox it has lacked a little bit in the ratings compared to NBC, But I imagine this afternoon game is going to go, well, Panthers are breakers, Panthers are not in you know, Detroit, and they can certainly win here. What do you make of this one? It's time for the Breakers to and the Mark cast curse. I guess it's been the West Hillis show so far. You know,

from a team you think just gonna pass it all the time. They've been running quite a bit, you know, they've had some success, but still come up short and a wind column. And like we mentioned earlier, I think Hillis just has to be getting tired, so they give him a little bit of rest. I don't know. I think he fumbled it for once there and they went to Jones for a little bit. But I think they're just going to go back to him. I mean, his workload has just

been outrageous. Looking here moving into the playoffs here, you know, a couple of weeks left to the regular season playoffs. What are you looking for from any of these scenes before we get out of here? Who would you like to see? You think that you think Birmingham and Philadelphia at the end. I think that's who's going to be. They're certainly the most fun teams, the best offenses, Birmingham defense. I think their reputation has been a

lot stronger than their actual performance on defense this year. But I think if they can do that, they're certainly the favorite. Well, Ferbie, I appreciate it if people want to learn more about you, kind of what you guys do over at run the sims where would you have them. Check out run the sims dot com. You can check out me at Ferbie Hoobler on Twitter, and we have stuff for USFL XFL. We'll have some NFL preseason We mostly dfs betting prop tools. It's a lot of fun. Has the

USFL interest exceeded or disappointed your expectations this season? Disappointed? I think, especially on DraftKings. Is XFL started out, you know about where USFL did last season, you know, and then I think people what we're just exhausted. You know, XFL started with one hundred thousand dollars to first place,

and now we're down to two thousand dollars to first place. So I think the interest has dwindled quite a bit, and DraftKings just kind of has kind of given up on the USFL product, you know, price wise, and the players player pools, Like a couple of weeks ago, they haven't figured out the difference between the inactive list and you know, like guys that were inactive one week, they just don't even add them to the player pool. So I think they've mostly given up on the product. But it's been fun,

though. Do you attribute that to a problem with the USFL product or just a general fatigue in spring football that we've done this now for twenty weeks. It's both, you know, and it's kind of self. It just kind of keeps building. You know, they cut the prize pool so people are interested, and then I don't expect DraftKings to keep taking a huge you know, cut themselves, so you know, you make the prize pool smaller, and then less people want to play, so they have to make the

next week the prize pool even smaller and keeps getting smaller and smaller. But I'd say, yeah, and the interests in spring football or in the USFL has been a little bit less than XFL, so it's just been it's been a grind. And then let NFL. You're starting to get to mini camps and stuff, and people are starting to do bestball drafts, so there's other places to play, you know, other games to play. It's interesting.

I just I use you know, all these metrics and ratings and attendance and YouTube kind of traffic I see, And obviously this is another one about so I always appreciate those insights as well. Well. For me, thank you so much, and I hope you enjoy Yeah, you gotta. I hope you enjoy the rest of the season. You see him a little down, but we got to grind through. Did I do enjoy it? I didn't want to come across the It's good. It's a lot fun. It's this

lot we've been doing. Yeah, it's been twenty yet since ye now we're working there. Well, foreby I appreciate it. Somo, all right, thanks a lot. Well, last time we spoke, I was in I

think I was in the Flamingo over in Vegas. Now I'm relegated to my living room. We have the lawnmower outside. Here we are JJ Adams here with the post media. How are you doing, sir? I'm good. I do remember you throwing that in my face that you were in Vegas having like the time of your life when I was I was stuck in I remember this. I got the memory like an element. I will never forget that, nor will I forgive. But it's good to see you again, o. J is good to talk. Yeah, well, much stable, much

more stable connection here back at marcass headquarters and over at the Flamingo. I think I was on the hot spot that day. So anyway, here we're doing team breakdowns. We had Ryan Valentine on last week talking Calgary. Obviously we have to talk America's CFL team to bas alliance here, JJ is the person I want to talk to you. How are you feeling that we've had the one preseason game. I mean, I know, wins and losses and all of that, but what do you make in the team so far?

You know, I'm encouraged. I think they brought a lot of the veteran flavor that they had from last year. The guys that were like, you know, second year players in our third year, they're they're answering that kind of impact, kind of zone of their career. So I think, you know, they've got a lot of returners. They picked up some good free agents. Um, they didn't lose too many pieces, and if they did,

they might have found some replacements. You know, James Butler came into his own last year for the Lions and they had to sort of start from scratch here, so we'll see what they have in running back. They lost fig figure out to Hamilton as well, so big veteran piece on the line. Of course. They picked up Michael Mature at center, so you know, they got some more experience there. I think This is going to be a team that's going to be challenging for for top in the West again.

And that is, you know, even without mister Nathan Rourke. Um, I think, uh, big play Va is a capable core back and now that he's had like a training camp under his belt, he's got some time a little runway. The team is unquestionably his to start the season, unquestionably his. I think he'll feel very confident and that can only help him, you know, uh, sort of get into routine and rhythm and really be big play of the A and live up to that nickname he said to start

the season. Are you foreshadowing that Dan Evans takeover here? Do you mean just off the last season with you know, because I want to talk Dan too, But yeah, it's I Vernon was on the show postseason, and I think people really underestimate the emotional toll that is, Like he was talking to you, Yeah, moving across the country. I've got I'm paying rent here, I'm paying rent here, I've got my house here. You know, he lives down in Tacoma. I got basically a stones throw from me.

Like there was a lot going into that besides even just football. Yeah, no, it was. I mean it was a tough move, like he was. You know, he he fell out of out of favor in Montreal, and you know the promises that were kept or not kept. He just found himself, you know, stuck and um. You know, when someone sort of questions your your capabilities and what you can do, and of

course it's gonna impact your confidence. And then you know, came over in mid season to a team that had, you know, one of the best quarterbacks this league has seen ever. You know, I'll say it was one season, you know, one and a half seasons, but I'll say it he was. He was remarkable. So that's a tough situation to come into knowing that if that guy comes back, you're gonna be relegated to the bench again. Now, you know he is uh, you know, he's got

that that offseason under his belt. You know, I'm sure you heard about the Lion King's camp down into Como where he flew and all the guys. He loves to do that, lots of bonding. He's sort of ingrained in the culture of the team there. He's a leader on the team now. So I don't think we'll see that Vermin Adams that we saw last year that

was you know, very intitive and conservative. You know, you would see him hold on to the ball just way too long and you'd be yelling at the at the screen throw the ball or yelling from the and you know he gets sacked or run around or something like that. I don't think we're gonna see that that via this year. I think he is going to sort of throw back to his more successful days and he's got so many weapons at his

disposal. I mean, it would be nearly impossible for him to like fall on his face with that kind of with those kind of options out there. So I foresee a very good season for him. And if not, they have Dan Evans your guy, well day, I don't want Vernon to do anymore. I think he did like the backflip somersaults or whatever when he was like running out of bounds and I think it was against Calgary and he did like a I would go okay Vernon, like yeah, I thought he was

gonna like get seriously injured here, like just yeah, it was. It was crazy. I like the lion King's thing and the arrow up and I've talked with Nick and Mad about it. It's fascinated to me that track that just to watch the little personality nuances between all of those guys and like, I don't you know, I love Vernon. I think people have Vernon. Vernon's a lot, right, A lot comes with Vernon both you know, on the field and then off and just the personality. I like watching all

that. They did a similar thing with the USFL and we saw Brian Scott the quarterback there and you know you kind of saw he was having to have like a house meeting kind of trying to talk to some of the wide receivers and you know, I kind of I don't know, we'll see. I like it. They're complicated. You've got you know, Lucky Whitehead and guys that have been in the NFL and coming back. It's curious as he kind of how they all interact. Yeah. No, I mean that Vernon is

a is a leader. He's like he really is a leader. I mean you saw that in the in the work that they did with the Lion Kings when they were sitting down and he was interacting with everyone. And he has

a track record of doing that. I mean, he did that in Montreal, you know, offseason flew in guys put him in a hotel practice with him, So he's that's kind of a role that he's he's really comfortable with and I think he involved into that that leader again now that he is the number one, as long as he doesn't, like you say, get fold in half, you know, trying to do something crazy scrambling out of the

backfield. The Dan Evans thing I remember when he got signed and kind of took me by surprise and just thought there would be maybe a hotter market for Dane and him coming in seems happy. He's in all the documentary stuff too, and obviously he played What do you make of that? Is it just hey, he didn't have anywhere else to go a you know, let's it doesn't hurt to have another person there. Do you think he's really going to

compete? No, I think absolutely he's going to compete. I think you know, Vernon is the number one guy, but you know, iron sharpens iron, so having those guys together is only going to make him better. And you know, the Lions saw what happens if you have a number one quarterback and he gets hurt and there's really nothing behind it. He saw what happened when they tried to you know, rotining the guys that they had last year. So now they have a guy who is a capable starter in this

league and he'll be pushing for number one. I think, you know, heading into the season, this is definitely going to be Vernon's Vernon's term. But you know, having Dane there, I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's a great room. Everyone on the on the team, you know, talks about this culture that they have there where guy, it's like a family atmosphere. You know, they're all brothers and they're all trying to lift each other up. So I don't think there's any of that sort

of competition. He doesn't find himself like in that situation. He wasn't in Montreal where he felt sidelined and kind of left out. Everyone's included, So I think it's it can only be a good thing for the Lions to have Dane on the team. And I am, I like you, a little surprised there wasn't a hotter market from out there. But you know, we'll see what those other teams do and uh in this season with the guys they brought in, I am very excited to see Cuy for jar there with Montreal.

I am very excited to see what that looks like. And I know that's a conversation for different team breakdown, but the culley for Jarr who now was a friend of the podcast, Cody, we were on not on speaking terms for a little while, but Cody's back in the family here and I'm excited. I like Montreal. They're my team of the East, and we've we've had Gary on the podcast, so I like Montreal and I hope Cody finds successory speaking French and doing everything else. What did you do the code

to you to make him an enemy? I need to know. I tweet. I retweeted a Three Down Nation article, the one where he was talking he used chicken nuggets as opposed to curse words, and I think Cody went on the spree and just stamp found anyone that was associated with that article and just went on the block. And so I apologized. I said, I accept you know all of that, and yeah, Cody gave on the show. It was great, it was a good time. It's funny Vernon has

had a boat to pick with the Three Down Nation two. You know, we came to BC and anytime in the post game, you know, the three Down nation writers would ask a question. Answer was always the same, gotta look at the film. Didn't matter the question could ask anything. You know, what kind of chicken soup do you like? Gotta watch the film. I don't know, I just got it was hilarious to see I was JC Abbott from three Down. They watched him sweat trying to ask all these

detailed questions and burn and just be like I watched film. Then he's awesome. I love Yeah, JCS still now. John Hodge was on the show last week, so I'm slowly working my way up. I think JC is like the ultimate boss battle there. So we're working our way up through the three down ranks, but trying to be friends. In terms of big losses, he a butler all of that. I'm very scared because I didn't think BC they have not run the ball well. I felt like in the last

couple of years. Obviously he had a stand that year, but I am scared of that loss and kind of what they're going to do there. Yeah, I mean JB was it was. It was a big loss, like he really came into his own last year. But if I remember the year before he wasn't he wasn't that great. And I think last year was the first year against like the Andrew Harris stays that they had like a thousand yard

rusher and so you know, historically they haven't run the ball well. Um, the guys that they got, they had five guys to start camp. They whittled it down to four right away. I think it was Von Watson can come up because he had a baby, and then whittled that down to three and then they released a Buddy Howell U not too long ago. So it's and Tony Williams and Smoke Mozelle. Um. I think Williams has got

the the ability to be a very good back in this league. He's I think he's got the intra insight track to be a starter because he's the biggest of the bunch. He's you know, he's close to six foot, he's two hundred pounds. And blocking is such a huge thing in this league because you pass so much that they need a guy who can provide that protection for

their quarterback. And also he's like a very powerful running like he can he can lower his pads and like get through some arm tackles and gain those extra yards. Um. So you know, combine that with you know, athleticism. He's fast. Uh. You know, we saw a little bit in the in the preseason game what he in Smoke would do. Um. But definitely, you know, he's a guy that can really do anything you ask. Um. Smoke is more of that sort of hybrid kind of guy.

He's a very good receiver, he's a good runner, he can return kicks. He's not huge. I think he was the smallest of the five guys that they brought in, but I mean he is shifty, he's fast. Uh. You know, he'll provide a very good change of pays to to to Williams. So I think they're gonna be set. And you know, we talk about replacing James Butler, but you know two years ago, they didn't. They didn't have James Butler. They had to develop him. So

I think we're gonna see the same thing with these guys. And I hopefully, you know, we don't know, we don't know until the the you know, the the rubber hits the road what they're gonna do. But I think they're gonna be you know, pretty much set at running back this season in terms of the Lions, you know, kind of carrying on from last year, and I know they're going to announce the band here for the you know, the day I think halftime of the preseason game, they're going to

announce for the you know, the kickoff and all of that. But in terms of I know, you know, Mark Doman was really into all the FSCU stuff and we've had jaman on talking about that and kind of building the grassroots and all of that in the community. Do you feel like the Lions are going to be able to carry over the momentum they have last year with Rourke? It just in terms of like popularity in the community. I think that it Rourke's magnificent season. Really, the spark was already there there.

The excitement was there with having new ownership. That was involved having new ownership that was you know at the grassrooms level, handing out scarves and schwag at flag football games, you know, sponsoring the flag football leagues. You know, the Lions hadn't had that for a while. So that kind of started the Ember a little bit, breathed some life back into the team, and

then Nathan Rourke was just like Yasoline and just boomed. You know, there was just this massive interest in the team, and uh yeah, I don't I don't know who their their halftime or show will be for the home opener, but you know, they keep teasing it and I think it'll be hopefully it won't be a Chilliwac again. You know, I think they're they're demographic. They did get their demographic a little lower. Uh, not that there's anything wrong with classic rock, but you know, let's let's make a little

lower. Um. I think they're really making an effort to scratch and claw their way back into like the the number two spot in Vancouver sports. Like no one's gonna be touching the Canucks because the Canucks are the Canucks. But you know, the white Caps are in a very popular league, especially in the States. I think it's like the number three league down there now. Um So interest is rising in that Lions have been lucky and that the white

Caps have been terrible for a decade, no success. So if they can get some some wins on the board and like last year, challenge for a you know, a great cup, making to the playoffs, make some noise. Um, you know that that's gonna even give them a bigger ramp into into season four with with the mar seasons three. So I think absolutely last

year huge fire. There's the interest is still there. Even though Nathan has gone to the NFL now, I think there's still a lot of interest in this team and with what they're doing just to make an experience for everybody. So yeah, absolutely, I think it'll be even better than last year. Well because I think they I mean, you know, Nathan phenomenal talent. Nathan wasn't exactly the most electric personality, right, you know, and he was on you know, he was on the show pre kind of that season

and all of that. But you know, I think with Vernon and Keion and Lucky and I mean even Dane to some extent, I think, you know, Dane's had stories in the past talking about his upbringing and kind of his heritage and everything. Like, I think you have a really marketable team

there. If they can perform even modicamly well whatever on the field, I think you have a lot of stars there that you can build around, because like Lucky Whitehead is like I don't I've been to yet, Like I don't care, Like I'll do whatever i want and like I'm doing sidelines you know, it gives in that agger where like he's still all in, but you can tell he's a little bit above kind of what's going on. Yeah. Absolutely, you just have to look at his Uh everyone's wondering what how is

he going to get to the game? How is he going to enter the game? Is it gonna be on horse bat? Is it gonna be on ice cream card? Is it gonna be on a unic cycle? You know, it's just that fun kind of modern social media content. Um. And with a great personality like Lucky, it's just you know, it's easy to to to sort of sell that to people. And like you said, there's

lots of great personalities and stories on the team, very marketable. Um. So you know, I won't say that Baker and Nick have a have an easy job, but it's a lot easier to sell people when you know they're very outwardly, uh, you know, energetic and enthusiastic. And I'm not saying Nathan wasn't. I love I love talking to Nate. You know, when the cameras are off, he's a different guy, but you know it's

a right on camera. He was very straightforward, straight forward. Would you would you rather sell you know Vernon or Lucky or would rather sell Trevor Harris here and Regina. I mean I think I think, like you know, and there's certain certain social media teams have I think that is the tougher sell

here, which Trevor Harris coming in, Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I mean, I mean, the Lions have no uh no shortage of guys that they can sell, and I really fearful those guys trying to big up Trevor Harris last I think for me, do we do we so you know, we did the uniforms right, we have that we're doing the you know, the bone and blackout or whatever and all that. I told Matt Baker, I want to work the mark has to get to the point where I get those

jerseys sent to me like Don and Dolly did or whatever. You know. I wonder how like how do we how do I get on that? I want to get on that that level here? You know, we've had the owner of the team on our show for about thirty five minutes, but that we'll get there. Um. But then like the Argos do it now and like I think Montreal they said they're doing the new uniform next year. I said, are we a fan of this is? Are we just trying?

It's just like false sparky and it's just like a false fire. What do you make of this? Well, I would actually like to take personal credit for the Minds changing their uniforms this year. You know, I've been lobbying a Mars since he came to like bring back the gun metal gray, you know, because those those those are dope. Those are my favorite Lions jerseys

of all time. Even though you you couldn't read the numbers or the letters on the back, just I love the color scheme, and so I think you kind of took that under advisement tap myself on the back, uh, and came out with these these jerseys. I think the blackout one is is nice. You know, you can't go wrong with black and orange. It's pretty classy. Um the fog gray or the bones fog yeah five, it's

it's it's it's pretty nice jersey. I will give them that. I think that you have to kind of change things up, you know, if you're gonna be you want to sort of differentiate yourself and continue to evolved, because I don't think to see if I can aboard afford to stayte stagnant. You need to freshen it up. And so, you know, yeah, I like the Toronto uniforms, you know, baby blue. I'm a unc guy, so I love that color scheme. I'd love to see what they come

out. You said Montreal is coming up with the next year. They said, yeah, I'd love to see I think I think it's great. Um, yeah, I mean, I'd love to see Winnipeg do something different. I think they have the classiest color scheme, but they all like look the same to me, like they've changed it, but they all kind of look the same. So I'd like to see something from from out of Winnipeg. You know, they're they're they're the franchise, right, the model franchise.

Do something different, do something you know bold, you know the bigs w on that right though, come on, do something. So I don't know if you want to market the bombers in this political kind of climate, I don't know if that's the best. It's kind of like the Washington Bullets. That wasn't the best name to change that BA in the day. So yeah, last thing for me, you know, how do you feel just you know, the CFL existing here going into this year, welfare check on the

league and the health and everything else. Um, I think it's it's stronger than than it was coming out of the pandemic. But it's not hard. It's not hard. I think there's a crop of new owners. Um, there's a new life in the league. They're really trying to push to do things differently than they did before. So I think they're really trying to evolve. Um, it'll be interesting to see how they continue to coexist with XFL. You know, as much as they never want to admitted, it's had

a huge huge impact on on the CFL on the player front. So you know, if they can find a way to to to coexist and not compete, I think that would only help the league. But you know, as as a as an individual entity, I think it's uh, you know, I think it's the stronger place has been in at least last decade, last

decade. So I think they're they're doing the right things now. Unless see if they can attract some new some new blood in the league, you know, need to replace some of those fans who maybe you're in't watching as much to be as they used to. Let's just say that. So yeah, No, I think I think it's a good place. I think it was a direct quote from John Hades like CFL staff wants the XFL and USFL to

die. I think that was basically like a direct quote on the podcast about so but you know, I mean it is it's competition for players, and you know, I think long term, if if in the XML and or USFL survive and it increases Canadian talent up in the CFL because they have to look inward. I mean, I think that that's great. It helps everybody. I mean then everyone, you know, it's it's more jobs and more roles for everybody. So I think it should be good at j J anything

else. And I appreciate it here and maybe we'll get you on here sometime during the season, hopefully. I think they predicted nine or ten wins they had, like the ratings come out this week, like they some wager thing talked about like all the team wins or how many wins people are going to get that BC Lions were like a ten win team. I think, oh hmm, I would I would have given them a little more than that, but hey, I'm not I'm not the guy setting all those those money bets.

So interesting but anytime you want to talk. BC Lions happy to come on anytime. My friend s thank you so much, no problem, Well, I appreciate it. We have I guess joining live correspondent here from our

training camp. We have my Cogan here with the Argonauts. How are you doing, sir? Doing great? Better now that I'm talking to you. Well, I appreciate that. So now that you know the Argots have won, like, do you get to go around like when you and Dave Campbell and all your other guys see your secret meetups, do you get to like flex a little bit harder with the Argonauts the Great up Champions. I love the fact that I will so far, I have never this will continue right

now because I didn't bring up Breakup Champions. You did. So any time I've been interviewed as us the country, I have never brought that up. I've always let the other people do that, including in Hamilton where I did three different shows last week, and I'm proud to say I didn't bring it up. Less but that's exciting though. It's good we were there. Exciting and obviously with the jack Kellys of it all, and you know McLeod and

now he's in the USNL. It seems like the argos are in the news a lot, which is exciting because obviously we've talked in the past and others about you know everything. It seems like kind of the arrow is pointing up a little bit. Is that how you feel, Yeah, it is,

you know, every little bit helps. We got quite a bit of a boost from the uniform release and the helmet release and the one fifty news conference where we had CTV, CBC Global, TSN and we had all the major dailies there, which is not a normal occurrence for an Argonaut news conference, sadly in this market. So to see that kind of response, you know, hopefully we're we're becoming the cool kids again. You'll see more people on

the stands at Demo Field here, which is great news. And this is our one hundred and fiftieth anniversary season, so we've got a lot of bells and whistles plans, some of which we revealed, some we have not. Yeah, is that one of those things. It feels like planning you must start a little bit further outright than looking forward to the season. It feels it's cool, and I know Mike Mitchell cover covers the argos for cf on

News seven. He's a lifelong Argostan, but it does seem like it's a really cool milestone for the CFL, for the argos for this, I mean for everything, for the city and every all the you know, the owners are everyone across the board from you know, for one hundred and fifty years now. One of the things that we did, and we did mention at the news conference, so we're not really speaking out of turn. And then

it's got a little bit of play so far on social media. A panel of five of us went through Argonaut history one hundred and fifty years and came up with the one hundred and fifty top moments in Argo history, which was not easy. Luckily we had I don't know if you know James Fraser or not. He runs the Twitter account by goon Boatman. He's a history professor here at the University of Guelph whose passion is pre CFL Toronto Argonau football.

This list would be different without him. The author Paul Woods, the longtime broadcaster and lifelong Argo fan, Don Landry and Danny Webb, the longest serving Argo employee who started as the equipment manager in nineteen eighty five. The five of us got together and it was about a three month exercise and I don't know how many hundreds of hours of manpower were spent on this, but we were actually very, very surprisingly happy with the list. I think we have

every decade representative except the eighteen nineties. There you go. I like that. So a lot of pressure here coming into this season to perform. You know, we've had the preseason game. I want to talk a little Brian Scott and everything else, but how did you feel like the argos have looked so far headed into the season. What's expected? I mean, the defense is ahead of the offense, and usually that's the case in training camp, and um, you know, Chad Kelly has looked really good or I think

everybody's a little relieved. I don't think it was a question at all, but you know, there's always that thing in the back of your mind until you see it. But but but Chad looks fantastic, so we're not worried. There somebody I assume is going to step up and and take the reins in that number two battle you mentioned Brian Scott. It's a three way race

and you know, one day one guy will look great. You know, Cameron Dukes will look great the next day and Ben Holmes will look great the next day, and then it seems everybody will take a little bit of a regression and somebody else will step up the next day. So that's that's one of the things I think in the final preseason game, that's that's going to be something that the offensive side of the ball is going to be looked at looking at, but you know, I think it's the defense looks fantastic.

Not everybody's been healthy in camp. You know, somebody gets a little nicked. They really air on the side of caution, so one day doesn't become one week. You don't give them the day off and you know, ready to go. The entire the entire coaching staff is back, which you know, with the championship team especially, is exceptionally rare. But you know,

we're lucky here in Toronto where everybody stayed put. Well, that's the thing with the quarterbacks, and it's you know, obviously in all of these leagues and the CFL, and you know even this year with the round table, you know, Trevor's moving and Cody's moving and you know, burned in like

all that to have Chad Kelly here. You know, you have this monumental you know McLeod, who's at least in the time that we've covered the CFL one of the main stays, you know, at least with the Argos, and I know our time is very short in the Argos history, but you know, he goes and then it's like, oh my god, we have just this up and coming star here ready to go. I mean, how how fortunate it is that for the Argos And is that what do you attribute that to to be able to know that, to be in such a good

spot right now. Yeah, it's great. He knows the offense. It's not like there was a learning curve for him. His learning curve was last year in terms of, you know, a similar a new game, the new rules, the size of the field, the size of the ball, all of that stuff. He's used to that now. He got number two snaps last year, got to play in a game at the end of the season, and we did a conversation and you can read our conversation about our

conversation at argonaut Dota. He says that the game he got in at the end of the season probably meant more to his confidence than even the Great Cup because it had been so long since he had actually played a full game. He got in, played really well and that kind of got his mojo back. And you know, who knows what happens in the Gray Cup if he didn't get those reps in the in the final game, which meant nothing in the standings, but to the guys who got in, especially the first timers

like Chad, it meant the world. So you know, he's in, He's got the keys to the car. He's cool with that. He's been a leader vocally and otherwise, and has looked really good in camp. So you know, if there are any worries that anybody may have had in the back of their minds, and I know he hasn't even play an exhibition game yet, just a scrimmage, but I don't think anybody here is worried about

Chat at all. Well, let's I hear a lot in you. We've had Naylor on the show in the past and talking about this learning curve quarterbacks coming up from America. There here's Chat. It seems like is it just his what do you attribute that to him being able to one pre you know, one exhibition game at the end of the season is it make a great quarterback? So what do you attribute that to him being able to step up so well? Like all of the best quarterbacks, he's a film junkie.

Um, he wants to get better, you know. His long term goal, like most American players, is to get back to the NFL. And he's putting in the work. Uh, you know, he was up here all offseason. He was in with didn't why a lot. He was working out the receivers. You know, it's not too far from home, being from Buffalo, but you know which an hour and a half an hour depending on traffic down the quew So it's he's it's within driving distance to go and

see you know, his family and friends. But he's stayed up here and really threw himself at the offense and even was looking back apparently at stuff that Dinwoody had done in Calgary, Like he just really wanted in all kind of the genesis of the offense. So he knows it inside and out and that work ethic has shown. He talks about doing the right things this year, being in bed on time, putting the right things into his body in terms

of nutrition and uh, you know, he's put in the work. You know, if you want to talk to him, if you're a member of media after practice, you don't have to wait a while because he's doing other stuff, whether it be you know, gassers across the sideline or you know, taking snaps with Peter mckn castro or throwing the receiver like he's always doing something. So nothing he does this year is going to be by accident,

that's for sure, in terms of the backup quarterback position. And not to be a you know, a biased journalist share on my end, you know, we so Brian Scott has famously been on the show. Ben Holmes has famously no show to our show. So if you want to know where you know my else he's lie in terms of men getting the second But you know, I saw Ben Grant tweeting writing a lot about Brian Scott. We were

all communicating in our we have like our XFL little media group. Did he and I know that they It was said that it was like the worst game that Ben's played, you know, in his time, and also Brian looked really good. Bit but you know we're Ben was there last year. Brian's coming. Has Brian impressed or what did you make of his performance. Yeah, and again, you know, having that pro background's gonna help. You

know, there are the nuances that he has to pick up. And I talked to him and he said one of the things, you know, I asked him about the twenty second clock because I've talked to guys who have come up, even playing in the NFL, and the twenty second clock will beat them quicker than anything else because they're used to coming in, getting the play in their helmet, kind of sauntering up to the line, looking over the line of scrimmage, calling the audible checking down. By the time that happens,

plays done. But he said it really seems to help his rhythm. He really liked it playing with it, not only in the scrimmage here, but in the in the preseason game at Hamilton. So he's really seeming to pick it up, you know. You know, Ben Holmes had a tough day. The first guy to mention through two interceptions. It sounds like both were on him. I'm the last guy that's going to blame a quarterback or a receiver because I don't know the route, but just hearing kind of,

you know, anecdotally that it was on Ben. Ben took full responsibility for it. I asked him what he's looking to do on Thursday night and he said, how about not throwing two interceptions because he knows he had a rough one, no question about that. And with Cameron Dukes, Cameron showed a lot too, Like he showed that little giddy up, an underhand toss coming out of his end zone, a nice scramble to set up a two point conversion. He showed them a mobility that really helps in this league. And

after watching Mack God love him. He's got a lot of strong suits. Mobility ain't his long suit, although he could run when he needed to and has shown that obviously in the USFL as well. Was some interesting highlight runs where he kind of got cartwheeled at the end of one of them. But that mobility with Chat and the guys behind him is just it's interesting because you know, we've had guys like Rockie Ray up here, Mclaubethel Thompson who were

more the traditional back, you know, dropped back guys. So to see the guys running around a little bit and extending plays, I think Argo fans are gonna like that style, and hopefully everybody is able to you know, fulfill what they want to do by buying that a little bit of expert time by scrambling out of the pocket. Well, I think I think that's a good point. And you have in you know, Ben got kind of pre the USFL you know, he kind of got cut in their training camp.

But having you know, Brian Scott there and even you know Chad in his background, but getting these I guess fresh quality quarterbacks up there, I think it's exciting. And we talk all the time, you know, it's the X Belt, like how are they all going to do? All these quarterbacks and everything? But at least right now, it seems like the Argos are

in a really good spot. Not to focus too much on that, but in terms of carrying over from last year that this year just you know, championship team and everything the rest of the roster, how do the Argos look here headed in because obviously, you know, it wasn't the prettiest season and win, but they got it done and it was you know, I heard they they just said, we're on the sidelines. We all got to get together here and win a peg and kind of everything else. But how have

they done carrying over to the season. You know, it's it's been interesting because I have not seen any championship merchandise. I have not heard anybody talk about twenty twenty two unless they were asking about it. Ryan Dinwoody at the beginning of the camp said, hey, if you if you're looking in the rearview mirror, you're not looking ahead. And if you look too much in the rearview mirror, you know, we're screwed essentially. So that's that's been

the mantra is twenty twenty two is nice. Take from it, what you needed in terms of your development. But CFL is going to be tough. The's is going to be tough again. Hamilton has improved, Ottawa has improved. Montreal might be the wild card in all of this. They might be better than people will thank or they may be you know, they may be the week sister this year. But you know, you've got a few veterans on that team who want to win, and they're always always that surprise team

in the CFL. So we can't take anything for branded um because team knows it. Just can't, you know, throw on the beautiful new uniforms, go out there and win the games. They've got to go and put in the work. And that's been evident this year, and and all of the coaching staff has been very, very firm in terms of, Okay, this is what we have to do to get better. And it's been always always looking at didn't. Woody's mantra is two percent better every day, and that's

that's been the goal, is to get better every day. I was just got off with JJ Adams talking BC Lions preview and I said, the most intriguing story landing me is Coddy for Jarthy win Montreal. I can't think of more more exciting just I mean, he's been on the show now in the offseason. I'm a fan, and I think he's kind of going in full full heart, you know, full steam ahead. I don't think he knows any different. But I think the East, you know people and you get

all these poop pooing and everything of the East. I think it's going to be exciting this year. I think there's a lot of mobility over there, and you know, you get Mizzoli back and everything else to kind of see how that looks. Yeah, I agree. I don't think anybody in the East is taking anybody for granted. Things will obviously start to play itself out.

But you know, you mentioned last year the kind of weird season it was, I don't know the last time a team and maybe it happens more than you think, but it was really weird where we led the league in games miss due injury and still won the Great Cup. You know, people looked and said, oh, Toronto at Toronto loa Toronto, We've never really had our starting lineup until toward the end of the season. And look, you know, oddly enough playing our best football toward the end of the season.

So um, you know that hoping obviously that that replicates this year, but maybe a fewer number of games missed due injury because it was it was nuts last year. It's it really is a testament of the coaching staff and the guys who were in those you know, backup roles that were able to come in and sustain success until the guys got back and a lot of them just didn't start rolling back. Just before the end of the season. I got to talk with coached in Witty during the media day at the end of

the season. I don't get a lot of obviously opportunities to kind of talk one on one with CFL head coaches like that. But you know, incredible guy. You know, conversation, what does the growth that you've seen him have here as a leader? You know, coming in and obviously with kind of it was, you know, messy, kind of here we're in the CFL, We're getting through everything and moving into this year more normalcy. But what do you attribute from him to just kind of the leadership on the team.

He's still a tough coach. And maybe this goes back to something that we touched on a little bit earlier today. You know, his first year, he really wanted to work the guys and get as many plays in and training camp so he could take a look at film and implement what he wanted to do. And this year, you know, if a guy is a little bit mcduppit will take the day off. Is pushing them to the last. He knows the guys now, the veterans especially, so that's a big

help. But you know, I think he learned in the first year. There was there was a play at the end of a scrimmage where he was thinking about, Okay, maybe I should let the guys go. It's a hot day. Now let's play one more play and in that play, Isaiah Cage was injured for the entire season, So that was a learning curve from coach Dinwoody. And you know, he continues to get better, and you know every coach does, every player does with the more experience they have in

a specific role. And he's continuing to learn as a head coach and has the respect of everybody in the organization. And you know two years here he was you know, he won the East and the regular season, uh, you know, came within fifteen minutes of winning the Eastern Final, and then won the Great Cup last year. So he's been very successful here. And I don't think anybody here expects the art goes to be anything but successful good enough to win the Great Cup. We hope so from sitting here in golf.

But they're a lot of the teams in this league. Last thing for me today obviously you get to know a lot of these players and stories and who are you looking to see kind of standout performances this year on the field. Yeah, I'm interested to see guys who performed well in other uniforms and how they play here. You know, floor and flow. Mlada is a guy who really flashed last year if you look at the status, you go,

huh. But if you're kind of scratch into the surface and just look at quarterback pressures, which isn't a widely you know, circulated stats sadly in the CFL, you'd see what kind of pressure he would put on a Darius Pickett coming over, you know, to play the sam linebacker spot after being

Montreal's most outstanding defensive player year ago. Jordan Williams, who astonishingly you know, we were able to acquire on a trade, had nothing to do with BC or being unhappy in BC. His day job is as a day trader and he was tired of getting up at three o'clock in the morning to get work done in BC because of the I'm change, wanted to come east. And you know, the Argos traded the ninth overall pick in the CFL draft

to get him. And if this guy in his third season, going into his third year, let's just say, he wouldn't have lasted until the ninth spot in the draft. So it was a good trade for the Argos. And that gives a little flexibility there because he can play the mike, he can play the wills. So I think I think that those are the kind of guys. And I'm curious to see how Roberts and Daniel comes back after a couple of years of being injured. He's looked really good at at the

field half pack spot, so I'm sorry the boundary halfack spot. So I'm really curious to see how he does under a full season. But they've got some guys, there's some good guys in this camp. Well, Mike, I appreciate it. I'm excited. I'm really excited for this season now because we've gotten through the XFL here and we've been doing that and we're getting us valve rowing through I do it feels like putting on old shoes now we're going

our third season and the CFL coverage, I appreciate it. We have our flight's book to Hamilton's. I hope I see the Argonauts there, hopefully against America's CFL team, the BC Lions. But I hope to see you guys there, and I really appreciate your time. Hopefully we get you on here once we get some games roll and then talk some more Argonauts anytime you need me on just as and thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank you well. I just purchase my ticket here. I couldn't fly into Hamilton's

I was trying to. I'm coming back to Toronto here for a Gray Cup in November, so hopefully I'll be seeing this young them in Steve Melton, how are you doing so? You definitely will? I think every night in the writers suite, won't you remember? We have a suite there for all writers football writers of Canada and you're one of them. Well, that's good. We're all in. I'm all in. I've got everything we have.

Steve here, we're talking. We've done BC Lions preview on this show, We've done the Argonauts and now we're doing the tie Cats there Steve finishing training camp here. How is everything going in Hamilton with the Tyecauts. Well, it was going on, I would think fairly well read until yesterday there was some kind of accident on campus and it wasn't on the field with a player.

They You know how you were always looking for those little gems. This is a team that brought in a lot of high priced help, proven help, but they needed to because of the salary cap, have a couple of surprises at a couple of spots, and they found one in a guy named Justin McGriff that comes out of Utah State. You don't see this in this league. He's foot six and fast and makes really good moves. He's been

terrific in training camp. In the exhibition game last week, he dropped the first bass after running a brilliant route and outdistancing the guy by ten yards on the street. Fly dropped it and then caught four passes in very very heavy track traffic, like right over the middle to prove that. You know that. So he had made the team, and had made the team as a starter, And yesterday there was some accident. I don't know what it was, but it was off the field and it was somewhere on campus, and

I don't know what it was. I don't know if he tripped and fell and there's a lot of construction around here or whatever. It was still investigating that. He's done for the season, right, so he never got to play. He was the kind of guy exactly what they were looking for, was the tallest receiver by three inches. The quarterback they're using bow isn't isn't the tallest guy in the world. So it always helps to have a guy that you can you can see by looking over the top instead of having to

look underneath. And yeah, so that that that was a bit of a setback. But they were very, very very deep at receiver, both Canadian and American receivers, so m and Anthony Johnson, who was briefly with the Buffalo Bills, was a guy they were looking at as a possession receiver. He played last year. He's out but only for a couple of games.

So other than that, they've been okay. They got a lot of They have some injuries on the defensive front, but they had too many players, proven CFL players on the defensive front anyway, somebody was going to have to go on some kind of list or get cut. So now they're hurt, but there but yeah, they're they're they're a veteran team, so I think that injuries could play a factor, but they've built that into the way they've

built their roster. It feels like there's obviously, with with Bow and everything else, really high level of expectations this year going. I mean, is it one of the higher team profiles in terms of like we kind of got to deliver this year. Yeah. It probably similar to to Zach the year he was coming off the Great Year and had come back after injury. You know, uh this in recent years read this is a this is this is

the closest I've seen to this this year or nothing type of thing. I mean, they've got they've got some futures tied into this too, but this is this is made for a Hometown Gray Cup. You know. They they they almost won the one the last time they had a Hometown Gray Cup. They had a team that was built for that, but this has built even more for that. They went and got only players that had had some some success, you know, either in the league finals or the conference finals.

So uh and guys that were they upgraded a lot of positions they're up against or over the salary cap. So and that's you know, they'll have injuries to accommodate that. Uh So. Um yeah, that this is a I think it's it's not Great Cup or bust, but it's pretty well nothing. But at least an appearance in the Great Cup will do. I mean, anything else will be a failure. Uh than anything short of appearing in the

Great Cup is a failure. It's just weird, you know because obviously we were there back Hamilton, you know, coming up short and set you know, so close here, and it just felt like that they completely collapsed last year, the tie Cats. And I know that Dane had some injuries and everything, and obviously he got shipped over here to BC, But what why

why did you attribute to sense the kind of collapse last year? It was just a there's a there was a lack of sustained mental toughness, I think an emotional toughness now that began at quarterback for sure, and Dan would be the first one. I felt he took almost too much blame there, but that was a lot to blame. There was a lot to blame there, especially early they fell behind, and every game looked the same. Read even the games that they won, where they they do well in the first half.

I thought there was a coaching issue last year in terms of adjustments at the at the half, you know, they'd look really really good. The defense was good most of the year, except on always a key drive in the fourth quarter they'd get a bad punt in there. Like, they all looked the same even the games that they won. They lost the first four and the fifth they won. The other team was coming back and kind of ran out of real estate and it was Ottawa or they would have been owing

five. With every game looking the same, The Great Up looked the same. They are sorry. The playoff loss to Montreal looked the same. I'm wondering it wasn't an imprint. They poo poo maybe on this one, but I wondered if there was, it wasn't a bit of a psychological print of losing two Great Cups in a row, particularly the way they lost a second

one at home when it was theirs, right, they was theirs. You know, it took until the fourth quarter until untill Zach found what everybody knew was going to be a penetrable weakness because they were missing a couple of players in the defensive backfield. But it took them to the fourth quarter to find it. And even then they had a chance at one of the greatest comebacks at history there and it was a a you know, I would say it

dropped pass in the end zone. That pass was there, a great defensive play, but you got to make that play and they went and then they lose it in overtime, and even in overtime, there was an interception in which the offensive receiver should have broken it up as a defensive player, so

they'd have one more play. So there's that, And I'm not sure that when they started having some turnovers and fumbles from key positions in the first couple of games last year and got off to the usually get off to an old two start or won three start, and except that one year they went fifteen and three. They usually do that, and they were fighting, well, they were really fighting from a last year, and that just problems multiplied.

They didn't have good kicking and have good placement kicking till maybe seven games eight games into the season last year. And when that came and they solidified the offensive line, the quarterbacks started playing better. You know, like Dane had a pretty good last third of the season. Were you surprised to see him basically traded. I mean it kind of shipped off to BC for kind of

a bigger chips here. It feels like, well, yeah, I think they were in a way trying to help him out, but they didn't really help him out that much. I mean, they couldn't have brought him back after I mean, it was just one of those things where they felt they got a sense that bo was available. They got a sense when they saw him in in the West semifinal that his arm was okay, and when he came off the bench in the fourth quarter, and that kind of solidified things.

I think the fact that the Dean was so obviously and self admittedly and publicly and I commend him as a human being for that, for basically talking about the stresses that he was under and the pressures that he was under and admitting a lot of things, but at all that isn't always the right way to do it if you're happening to the quarter of a football team, right, So, so I think that's what they felt. As a reporter, I felt differently, you know, watching him as a human being conducted himself

and be honest about it. I really like that. But they know that he's a pretty good player. But they think that Bow has the championship pedigree and they liked Schultz enough to keep them around as a backup, so they're pretty you know, they're pretty good one too at quarterback there. So assuming that Bow and Bow takes it, comes in, takes command. I mean, he really runs things and he he has a presence with the defense too.

They really and he brought players players came here because of that. I mean, they's signed some big names and that wasn't going to be the number one reason those players came. But it was a factor, do you I mean, and obviously his pedigree and mental all of that stuff, but I mean physically is Bow and from what you've seen in training campsons, I'm right. Did he play a little bit? Yeah, it was kind of They weren't sure if he was going to go in. He yeah, he won't

play a Friday night. He played only two series and really they were short series. He was out by the end of the first quarter. They liked what he saw. He threw. He was three for six, but two of the six were drops, including the one I mentioned at the top of the show to Justin McGriff who ran this incredible pattern. Bow hit him in full stride right in the midst and he dropped it and uh, you know about a fifty yard pass. And so, yeah, he's looked pretty good.

He's looked pretty accurate. He you know, I'm sure he doesn't have the same you know, he's not the same guy that he was years ago. But but but he's smart. Uh, he won't elude people with his speed the way you know, some other quarterbacks do or the way that boatd

at one point, but he does allude. I mean, he just can make that one like Ricky Ray was later in his career, Just make that one little shift with his shoulders and all of a sudden that the guy goes rushing by him, so you don't have to run out into the open to do it. So and he could get out enough. And they've they've really really made sure the offensive a line is ready. They'll go with three Canadians,

not four. I mean, Chris fan Zile is there as an option, but he's hurt, likely out the first six games and didn't play much last year. So you know, they've they've really taken care to you know, they're spending money on a Merrit tackles at left tackle, bringing back Joel figure Oha who started here back in twenty thirteen. And you know he may be a little long in the tooth, he's got a lot of experience at

Bowl. Likes him because he's big, and James Butler is a tremendous run back and so they had much they you know, they had a pretty good running back who ran downhill hard last year, but this guy has more has more ability and a quicker first few steps, so he's got breakaway speed once

he gets to the second level. Well, that was the actually gonna be My next question was about Butler, and obviously we were talking with JJ over for the BC Lions and kind of you know that to me that was a big loss when you he yeah, they didn't pick up his contracts or whatever he decided to go. How has he made a difference so far? Do you think he's going to be a big difference man, Yeah, you know they're going to use him on the you know, they're using him in a

variety of ways. I mean, he's pretty good out of the back, Y'll catching the ball. So I think what they're going to try and do is isolate him in a couple of ways. They may swing him into a short side wide receiver at times, like either on a swing pass, but the bubble I think the bubble screen is what they're really looking at there. Where at the worst he's going to be one on one with somebody if the other guys even come close to making the other two guys even come close to

making their blocks, I don't know that. Like with his speed in his size, he can go over or around people. That's the feeling and assuming he stays healthy, and they're for a similar type backup, so there's a bit of a bit of a runoff between two guys for his backup, but it'll be clearly as a backup and practice STEO type of things. He he was a big get for him, just as their middle They wanted to get

tougher at middle linebacker. They I mean, they're they're middle linebacker. Made the All Star team in the Eastern All Star tacking last year, led the team in tackles, fourth most tackles, fifth most tackles in Tyekat history. But I think he said he's aid Samier German is a much more physical type of player, very much a physical guy, and they're looking for that they

needed to get. They thought they needed get more physical. And when I talked at the top, but I thought they lacked a little bit of emotional toughness at key moments last year. I think they felt that at times that was related to physical toughness too, you know. I mean they lost a lot of fourth quarters last year. A lot. I mean, at one point in the season, particularly the first twelve games, the margin by which they'd been outscored in the fourth quarter was spectacular, Like it was ridiculous.

It was like the game was played in two into two parts. In terms of coaching staff for this year, right, rival's back, we've happened. What do you make of the staff that they have going in this year? Well, they did one thing that happened. I don't know if you're aware of. There there was a cap on coaching staffs financially and on numerically and also on football operations u numerically cash wise. So what they did was roll

that all into one. So instead of being capped at eleven coaches, plus the salary cap for both you know, for football opstion, for football coaching, the whole thing now is capped. There's a there's an overall salary cap for all the football operations, so that includes staff like that. That doesn't include trainers and doctors and those those kind of people, but it does include

you know, scouts and you know gms and all of those things. Even the portion of probably Orlando because he's president of Football Ops and you could have it, you can, and you have twenty five jobs in those positions, and so a Tiecats chose to go to thirteen coaches that way, so they have now an extra coach on special teams, and they brought and they brought in the former Argyll head coach, Scott Milanovitch in a similar role to that

when they brought in Kahari Jones last year, but they're doing it from the start of the year. Last year was in result, I think, as it was a reaction to offensive woes that team couldn't That team could put up yards last year but could not score touchdowns. Now that's another reason they went and got bow Like bow is touchdown first, like always, like both considers turning it over to the field goal kicker a defeat, so that that mentality

is something that they wanted there. But also the open wasn't scoring a lot of touchdowns in general lecture for a lot of reasons. So I wondered if Scott Milanovitch was there to kind of help with a little bit. He's I mean, Tommy Condell, who is the open supporter, is also the quarterbacks coach and is good with quarterbacks. He's developed a lot of them over the years, so it's just an extra set of eyes that kind of thing.

Scott Milanovich, of course Orlando worked with him at the twenty twelve Great Cup team when they were both with the Articles, and Melanovich, of course, is a very proven football man. He doesn't want to be a head coach right now, but I think he'd He's going to commute a little bit from his Florida home, but I think eventually he wouldn't mind getting back in. This is a pretty good way for him to do it in terms here just

looking forward, I'm looking here before we get you out of here. Obviously, big game next week, you know Winnipeg Alante Peg going to be a big What are you looking to see? And I mean I know we had the preseason games said this weekend, but when it comes to the real deal, what are you looking for against Winnipeg that first week? Hold on of

the ball, I think that's the big thing. You know, we don't know Seth small way back, that's the kicker, and he's been away his wife had a baby, and so he's on a suspended list because he wanted to take longer than you normally would. It's a family guy. I don't know what else is going on there, but but so hang onto the ball. I mean that was the big problem much of last year, particularly early.

In fact, many of the last part of the last decades, scept for a year or two, hanging onto the ball early in the season and beating yourselves has been a big thing. I think they're looking for fewer penalties

than they got against Toronto, a little more discipline that way. And now you've got two big possession receiver or two big receivers out of the five you're gonna use not playing in Anthony Johnson and who will be back, and Justin mcbriff who will not, so both pretty good at spreading the ball around and the manner in which they use Butler on offense. On defense, I'm I'm also looking for Lawrence Woods to maybe take one back. He's playing defense.

You know, he's the hell of a punt returner and a kick returner too, so they'll use him a bit back. They're probably just on kickoff returns, and so I'm looking for special teams there with Ryan Bolts influence, because he's a heck of a special teams coach. On defense, the linebacking corps is fairly new. The front four has four starters, but they've also got

four starters hurt. They had eight starters, you know, to fill basically six positions, so the rotations six or seven, right, and see how that will affect them against Winnipeg, who has a pretty good running game and has the biggest line in the league. Still, I think that line's not as good as it once was, but it's still among the premier lines in the league. Those are the three things. How do they doing the essentially, how do they do the trenches? And how does both find enough guys?

And and as Butler, the key to the offense is this spinoff Butler, Butler and Tim White. Is that? Is that the way it's going to be? And as there at one point I wondered if there was enough football to go around reading you know, they just so many people who could play. But that was used to that. He played on some pretty powerful Caligary teams. They didn't always get to the Great Cup or win it, but they were always very powerful, very deep. Well, I'm excited.

I think this season is going to be good. I'm sure a lot of eyeballs here with Hamilton with bo and hosting and all that stuff. So hopefully we'll get you back on here once we get two games. But Steve Melton over here with the Hamilton's Spectator. Really appreciate it. Thanks Raid, a

huge special thanks to all of our guests today for coming on. Like I said, really appreciate the professor Andrew Murray making time. I said, Andy, I texted him the other day of the layoffs, that's because we need the professor this week, Andy coming on whenever he is called doing due diligence. And then obviously Evan Willsmore taking time, busy getting into the summer and

his busy work schedule. Certainly appreciate Evan's time. Thanks again to Furby everyone over at Run, the SIMS everyone, they're doing the work for the USFL and the XFL, all of that fantasy stuff that's kind of way above my head, but certainly reciate their insights. And then the three CFL writers we had on today, J. J. Adams and Mike Hogan. Mike's not the writer, Mike's an announcer, but you know what I'm saying, the three CFL talent JJ, Mike, and then certainly appreciate it. Steve Milton

as well. Looking forward to catching up probably having a beer with at least Steve here coming up in Hamilton for November. We have our ticket spot for the Great Cup. That'll do it for me today. Like I said, you keep track on Twitter and the YouTube channel, but Pat and I will be here Monday for our USFL recap, CFL Live pregame show on Thursday, and then a special live episode with Andy Murray next Friday. Busy Times Rookie

Draft episode coming as well June sixteenth. Thanks as always, like to subscribe to you next time.