Episode 146 - "Alt-Football Vision"

Coming up this week on the marcast. Here we are really peak football season here, CFL preseason this year, USFL Week seven, XFL wrapping everything for twenty twenty three. Lots of things going on in the world of alternate football TV. CFL giving away its games, part of its games for free in the US, XFL ratings did they end high? USFL now ratings could be could be better? Here following the XFL twenty twenty three season completion, we

are talking everything all football TV today. Do not adjust your sets. And it's not one comvision. It is al football Vision. One comvision, my very latest and greatest convention ex t vision. It's who you all know how works your photographs. Sure, I do your photographs off and then the photograph that spread up into millions of tiny pieces and they go wiz into the year down to your TV set where they're all put together again in the right order.

You should open your mouth a little wider when you speak. Really exciting show today. A longtime friend of the podcast, Greg Parks, returns XFL board. Greg hates talking about XFL TV ratings, hates writing about them, yet he is doing both and more here coming on the show. We are recapping was XFL twenty twenty three ATV ratings success? We discuss you know, you're talking about were the ratings good? Were they successful? Well? To

who right? In what context? And the only context that matters is the XFL and ESPN because they're the ones who are the only ones showing out money for this and that one. He is going to either continue to fund the league or not, and then do not adjust your television set. So that is right from three down nation, John Hodge himself stopping by, we are talking to everything CFL preseason, the health of the CFL, CFL plus, should the CFL be giving away half of its games in America for free?

And more? And this is a loaded conversation you will not want to miss. I think the temperature north of the border talking to people in the league is there's a hope that if either league stays around, it won't be for much longer. And I'm not saying that as a malicious, you know, wish of fans. This is not a representation of how fans are feeling or how the public is feeling. But for obvious reasons, with the competition personnel,

people in the CFL are hoping that these American leagues die. And then we have survived the great CFL preseason thunderstorm of twenty twenty three. We're streaming our games on CFL Plus, and we have Ryan Valentine stopping by former Big Brother Canada can test it doing a full team breakdown of the Calgary Stampeters. Also to the Ryan's thoughts on the health of the CFL and what does he think of CFL plus streaming in America. This is the most financially lucrative US

broadcast deal they've ever signed. I'll take it. Anything that brings more money into the league is better. And then trade forward one of the quarterbacks, your Edmonton Elks stopping by the program. And then we have two separate USFL Week seven previews featuring Eric Eager of sumer Sports and Josh Shepherdson of Fantasy Pros. Well, like I said, loaded show, hope you enjoy. Hey, guys, welcome to the marcass read here tease this a little bit.

This week said we might be mending fences within the White flag for when of the longstanding feuds of the marcast. We have John Hodge himself stopping by today from three Damn Nation really appreciate that. I was, you know, purchasing my now we're going to our third Gray Cup here coming up in November, purchasing my flights this week for Hamilton, and I thought, you know, the world is really small, the CFL world, the all football world.

Wanted to reach out to John over three Down Nation said, Hey might have been a little brash coming into the CFL with all the XFL talks here a couple of years ago. What do you think about coming on the show. John is great, really excited. A long extended talk with John, really appreciate his time talking everything CFL plus on here. Before we get to that today getting Greg Parks on. Greg did a deep dive over on XFL board if you want to check that out. Greg lamenting the fact that he has

to talk and write about XFL TV radians. Yet we are going to do more of that today, ending the season, kind of doing the post recap here, and then we have Bill cham last week talking the championship game. We have USFL Week six tv radians kind of seeing how the USFL performed without the XFL kind of crowding the landscape. So we're going to talk through that with Greg get Greg's thoughts on the XFL radians, and then we're going to

kind of segue now we're moving into CFL. John extended talk like I said, everything health of the CFL, what the CFL, you know, coaches and staff, what do they think of the XFL and the USFL. Is John higher or lower on the XFL now that they have completed their season. Really really good talk with John. And then moving into CFL. Like I said, Ryan Valentine stopping by covering the Calgary Stampeters for three Damnation. I mean, this is like basically a three Dawn Nation sister channel this week,

but we have Ryan Valentine. I watched him on Big Brother Canada. Really excited. We've bantered back and forth for years, but really excited to get him on the show here to kind of do the interview portion. And then Trey foward. We were going to have Dave Campbell on doing in Edmonton Elks kind of post preseason game. You know, what do we think of the Elks this season? Dave is sick. I blame the week Canadian immune systems.

I'm just kiddy, but I think Dave's whole family is out. So we have Trey forward on was going to hold that episode till next week. We have Trey coming on the program. Get a lot of questions. You know, why isn't Traycy Moore field time? Trey seems like one full, kind of upbeat guy. Hope you enjoy the interview. And then not one but two USFL week seven previous this week, like I said, Eric Eager over at sumer Sports, Eric joined us back talking XFL and then Josh Shepherdson

from Fantasy Pros coming on. I like getting a couple of different unique takes on that kind of where they looking forward to. Eric's really good with kind of the betting odds and the over and unders and everything heading into the matchups. And then Josh is great. I thought we had a fun conversation there about you know, is are the Philadelphia Stars? Is that the Fat Colby of Survivor All Stars? So really I guess it was Survivor Heroes for a

still it's but really appreciate that. So six really good interviews today. I hope you guys enjoy it, like and subscribe. We'll check back in at the end of the program. Try to give us up to thirty five subscribers will give away tickets to a championship game of you're choosing when we get there. Hope you guys enjoy see you at the end. Things well, last

I spoke with this Yengleman, we were very fuzzily live in San Antonio. Greg was crystal clearer here. I'm looking great as well, talking XFL Championship game. Now we're back. We have a lot to talk about. Greg hates writing about XFL TV radiings, but yet that's what we do on here, That's what we talk about. We have lots of football talk on the show. We also have the XFL showcases to go through real quick as well. Greg, how are you doing, I'm doing great. Read Thanks for

having me on. Did the XFL Championship game just live up to your expectations? I think so. You know, I think there was some fear of a DC blowout, which didn't happen. I mean, it wasn't a blowout either way. I think that would have been probably the worst part about it, and really I'm actually surprised. I know there was a lot of consternation about Arlington getting in the playoffs, and there was some thought that maybe if they won the championship, some people would look at it as a little less

than legitimate. But I didn't hear much of anyone complain about that. You know, they certainly earned their way beating you know, two pretty strong teams on their way to the championship. So quibble if you must about them making the playoffs, but they certainly earned the championship. It was funny. I m there was obviously a lot of complaints from our CFL brethren, you know,

like what is the trophy if you can't drink out of it? Coach him had told me that they, you know, flipped the cup upside down and drank out in the base of the cup, which I thought was tremendous. I that have like a quarter million impressions on it. People really seem to like the flipping the XFL championship upside down. Now it is funny because I see, like I think it was Dallas and the trophies making the rounds down. I see all these news anchors like holding it taking photos with it.

I'm like, they don't even know, they don't even know what's well And that was my question, like they maybe they have a headquarters in Arlington. I'm seeing a lot of these press releases having Arlington in it. But it's like the Arlington Renegades don't have like a home, you know, they don't have a building where the Arlington Rending Gus workout of. So like where does the trophy go? You know, who keeps it? Does it go in on Bob Stoop's mantlepiece in his house? Like? That was a question

I had after the game. But it sounds like it's kind of traveling around a little bit. That's good. Yeah, they're traveling. Maybe Danie'll taker out. I did see Also, Danny looks like they're going to be releasing some men'swear from her A collections, So I might have to partake on that because it's been I think that GTSQ. I think it's been primarily female. But I did see a tease for some men'swear coming, so well, I hope you'll you'll model some here on the show. Yeah, I will,

I'll buy some. I'll pop on some Danny virtue they do that. Okay, So that so Greg, it was I think it was Tuesday. It's so proud. Greg tweets out like, hey, guys that stumbled upon this on the website. It looks like because the XAFL and announcer HBCU showcase Think in Atlanta and they said, hey, I found these on and then Think like half an hour later, XFL tweets it out, but you beat XFL

to it. We have the XFL showcases for this summer. There is a specialist one coming later, and then there's a combine at the end of July. I have the dates here. I did as shure it's about it kind of any thoughts then re kind of repeating this again this summer. I mean, I think if they have the money to do it, and you know,

who knows, they may actually make money on it. Giving their charging two hundred and sixty dollars ahead and they'll probably get at least one hundred if not more at each showcase, so they may end up coming out ahead. But anyway, you know it. On one hand, it's surprising because the quality of players they got in twenty twenty three were so high that you really don't need to do this kind of open season tryout type of deal. You

know, you can attract a high level player without doing that. But I think the other side of that coin is they're the League of Opportunity, and they did have a few players from the Showcases that were put into the league, and we're on rosters. I crunched the numbers early in the season. I can't remember exactly how many they had that, you know, we're from the Showcases, and I only had a couple of the Showcase rosters. I think I was missing the last one or two. But even from the first

several there were players drafted. And so it's all just you know, no stone unturned, right, It's it's making sure that you have the highest quality of football, even if that means players who are not currently a part of any league or you know who would attend these tryouts and pay two hundred and sixty dollars for the chance to be seen by coaches and DPPs. So it

is interesting that they're going back to it again. It looks like very much a similar schedule, a lot of the same areas that they hit last year. Even the time frames are similar in that you know, you've got the specialist one that's much later than all of the other ones. I think that's going to be in late October again. The only thing different is the XFL combine, which I think is interesting. It's going to be select players from

the showcases. I guess the quote unquote best players from the showcases will be invited to the Combine. I'm not really sure what the purpose of seeing them again is other than to maybe cross track make sure, you know, everybody really gets seen and everybody who's invited to be a part of that draft pool

in November checks all the boxes necessary. But that is a major change from twenty twenty two's summer showcase schedule, and I think, like to be fair, maybe we don't fly ownership out to the combines this year or the showcases this year, right, we're not doing like the Hawaii one. Maybe we just get Danny and the Rock and then let's get them at the Combine. Let's have you know, we can send out back to whoever would say if they want to go to the things, and we'll have rest, Giulio and

all of that, and then maybe let's do ownership. And I think that will be a big shoe bag. I mean that's obviously extended as well with the three days, and I think that will be kind of an all hands on deck situation there. So maybe maybe we parse out what staff we need at the actual showcases. Yeah, I mean it could be you know,

Saint Louis sends their DPP to the HBCU. You know, maybe Beck goes to the Atlanta one, and then at the combine you have, as you said, all hands on deck head coach DPP, maybe some of the key assistant coaches, that sort of thing. Yeah, anything else on this interesting Last year, I think, like the Hawaii one and one of them the

showcases, some of them were in by the only. These appear open as long as you want to pay the injury fee, and then obviously the combine will be the invited only, but maybe you'll get some players you know that want to pay the two hundred and sixty. I think he said to get in on that that maybe didn't have the opportunity before. Yeah, I mean

it could be there. There are fewer invite only showcases here and it could be a similar situation to last year, where even if they're not invite only, you may have some players who are invited to these showcase is to work out as we had on some of those last year as well. So it doesn't preclude people from being invited, but they're certainly keeping a lot of room open on each of these for people to pay their own way. I just last notes, I mean, they're really doing it, like you said,

doubling down doing the showcases last year, doing him this year. We've already been scouting, We're doing the rookie draft this summer. I mean, they're really putting a lot of time and energy, even more so even than last year. And so like we really want to make sure, like you said, the league of opportunity that like anybody that we're trying to get our eyes on, can get a shot here. And it's smart, you know, you want to keep that level of play high. That's a big factor in

getting people to watch the games. You certainly want to beat the USFL to some of these players. And we're seeing already some players who tried out in rookie minicamps who could be tops on the list for XFL teams in that rookie

draft next month, already signing on with USFL teams. So a slight advantage maybe that the us FL has that they're in season, so they can kind of get some of these guys and get them some professional game tape before the end of the USFL season to try to get themselves back into NFL training camps. You know, it's the XFL is going to be holding that draft, and the nice thing for them is that it doesn't preclude those players who are

drafted from still getting into NFL training camps this summer. And I want to do and we're going to do kind of a rookie draft show when all that happens. Kind Of like, is it the same as that the NFL the

USFL college draft? Is it different? It feels a little bit more if it's the same thing with a horse with a different color, But it does feel like at least getting these guys, okay, let's get you on our list here, like we'll get you on the party list and then you can still do other stuff, but at least we kind of have first DIBs on that if we're interested. Yeah. I thought it was very different at first. The more I think about it, the more I think it's a little

more similar than I thought. The big differences. You know, the USFL was drafting guys before the NFL draft, so any of those guys could have been drafted, though any of those guys could have signed as free agents. The xfls is drafting them after the NFL draft, so they've already had the chance to hook on his undrafted free agents. So to me, the guys the XFL are drafting are more likely to end up in the XFL next year than the guys that the USFL drafted ending up in the USFL. I think

that's the difference to me. I agree, I agree. I think that's a very good way to put that, So I won't try to rephrase that any different we have here that we'll get to the XFL. Was it a success here? Your big ratings article USFL this week, averaging four hundred and fifty one thousand across the four we had two cable games to network games those did you know? Six thirty and then seven thirty for the Fox. Are you surprised We talked a lot about the cannibalization of both of these leagues.

Are you surprised that the USFL didn't tick up bigger here in week six? I am. I think to some extent, I feel like that cannibalization is I don't know, maybe over exaggerated. I mean, when you think about the actual overlap, it's maybe three weeks, you know, I think the USFL started in XFL's week nine. So if you're talking actual overlap, there's really not a whole lot. Now, you could make the argument that having played nine weeks, there's that fatigue factor in fans. Right, we're coming

right off the full slate of NFL playoffs and regular season. You're kicking right into the XFL season, and then that leads right into the USFL season. So maybe it's not that head to head cannibalization, but it's just that fatigue factor of fans who just kind of need a break. I mean, that's certainly where I'm at. Like I didn't watch the USFL next year last year, but you know, even if I had, would I have the energy

to devote my weekends to continue to watch football every weekend? I think that's hard for a lot of people, especially we get into the summer months where more and more people are outside and things like that. So I am surprised that the ratings for the USFL haven't gone up since the XFL ended its season, or had just not been higher generally speaking, XFL or not. And I'll applagize this is Mike Mitchell's article. I just I have the reader view

one because Mark has like a thousand ads over at USFL News. But this is Mike's article. I just want to make sure I have the reader view so it would be a little bit more condensed here. For US, I still maintained USFL last year had had this. It was the confluence of it been two years since the XFL. We're hungry for this. It's the spring.

There wasn't a lot where, you know, COVID was kind of getting out where you were watching, like, I don't know if the USFL ever hits those highs again, I don't know if the XFL hits those highs. I mean, the us has had one game over a million this year, and that was the two million apted to Kentucky Derby, which if you're, you know, an XFL apologist, you would say, without you know, the Kentucky Derby and people just fell asleep and left the TV on or whatever.

But are you surprised that we've only had the one million plus and we're really in this six hundred to seven hundred thousand rates? I am. I thought that. I was actually surprised the first week because they didn't hit a million on those network games, and I thought it being the first week, they'd be able to do that. And I think it's especially surprising because heading into the season, people were just lauding the USFL schedule, and rightly so,

you know, they put more games on network TV. I think there was a more consistent time slot. These are all arguments that we're making that the XFL should be doing next year, right, and it really hasn't increased the USFL's ratings significantly anyway. Of course, there are millions of other factors that go into that than just looking at the raw numbers, which I talked

about in my article. But if XFL fans think that the magic elixir to increase ratings is going to be more games on network TV and more consistent timeslot,

the USFL showing that that's not necessarily going to be the case. Now, the XFL does have the advantage of, you know, setting that low bar in the first year where any kind of extra promotion, any kind of extra advertising in market, out of market on national TV should boost you know, the profile of the XFL, where the USFL was already marketing itself pretty hard last year. You're seeing a lot of ads. I don't watch a

lot of shows on Fox. I think I just watched wrestling in NASCAR, but they have a lot of USFL not just commercials, but the announcers will do ad reads plugging games. So there's not a lot more Fox can do to further play at the USFL where you know, the XFL and ESPN can say, okay, this is where we hit. Now, we have the potential to go even higher if we dedicate more resources, more money to that advertising effort next year. I do think the USFL and I thought they were

I mean I said that you go back. I thought they were going to come in and completely kill right I did. And I think Fox, yeah, we're doing all this. You know, it's a little bit of the BDE. I can get a little bit from Fox sometimes like we're you know, and it's been like you said, a little more it is. That's a really interesting point that I do think the ramp up for the XFL. You know, if one hundred and twenty thousand rumored that they spent in already

versus Fox. You know, I watched I Disputed today, They got the banners rolling coming up, Skip and Shannon are going to preview the weekend's games, you know. I mean, there a lot of time is being put into that where I think you can ramp up XFL a little bit more than you can ramp down USFL. Yeah, for sure, And that remains to be seen whether ESP and the XFL are going to do that. I think

there's been some talk. I think the article on the Athletic a week ago sort of hinted that that's going to be the plan for year two is a little more in those areas. It might not be one hundred percent more, but it could be just incrementally more enough to be noticed and enough to take

this year's baseline ratings. And I mean the other good thing too is you know, you look at the XFL Championship game, and again this is something I wrote about in the article, is they retained over ninety percent of that viewership of the first week, over eighty percent of the eighteen to forty nine and that from that first week. So you didn't see that really hard decline that would hint to you that you know, they've already hit their apex.

Yeah. So speaking of that, let's get to the main appetizer here. We got your XFL board then, Pierre, I didn't know we were gonna talk about this this week, and then you put a ton of work into this. I read it. I know it got shared. Mike rab We said, let's have you on. Let's do kind of the final here. We have all the numbers, all the data. Obviously go check out you know Greg's article here on the XFL board. Uh so, so, Greg,

what's the XFL rating success? You tell me, Well, it's complicated, as the as the rest of the headline says, I'm not I don't feel qualified to answer that question. And there's two there's two big missing components that we've all talked about, and that is the ESPN Plus viewership. We don't know other than the ESPN press release that said that the championship game was the most watched XFL game on ESPN Plus this year, which again you would

take as another good sign, I assume. And the other thing we don't have is the ESPN and XFL's expectations for ratings this year. I think ESPN has said it met expectations. You know, Danny Garcia has said different times they're happy with where they are, they do have room for improvement. The Rock when he was tweeting about it, it was saying, hey, baby steps, We're not lighting the world on fire, but we're we're getting there. We're we're taking baby steps, right, So you know, they're not

out there waving the banner like mission accomplished. You know, they know that there's still work to be done, and I think in a way that's encouraging that they know that there's still things that they can do to push those numbers forward next year. So without those two pieces of data, I just think it's I'm not qualified to say whether or not the XFL was a rating success. Certainly it's getting to year two, which is more of a success than

the XFL has ever been. So that's an accomplishment in its own right that should be celebrated. But it's really not about year two. It's about sustaining this year to year, and we just haven't gotten there yet to know whether this is going to be something that you know, we're not going to be sweating it out every year going forward. Well, I mean, you look here at FX and ESPN. You know, four hundred and twenty five thousand

average over the season. Greg's got all the time slots, everything that's way you gotta go do the deep dive on this. We just said USBLA average four and fifty thousand viewers across four games with two of those on network windows this last weekend, so you know, you know, just you put in comparison there, you got four and forty six thousand on ESPN, you know, and lower is cable, and you can say ESPN and ESPN two are widely distributed. You out the Fox two, Fox in the in the FS

one and USA broadcast here versus four forty six on that. Were there any of the averages it surprised you. You know, obviously a little bit higher for ESPN with the six h six, even though I think there's a misconception that ESPN two is somehow like a lesser network. They're generally distributed about the same. It's just that more people buy default go to ESPN one. Is

that how you kind of read that? Yeah, in terms of how many homes the channels are in their very similar But obviously ESPN is seen as the more prestigious network by viewers and things like that, so they're more apt to go to that channel than ESPN two to check anything out. So that's kind of how I see that there is a big difference. But I think if you go through the ratings for any sports properties that ABC ESPN owns you're going

to see that difference from from ESPN to ESPN two. It's not it's not just the XFL games that are drawing that wide of a difference in ratings on those two networks. The averaging over a million. Obviously we have the dips here right week six and then nine and ten with the ABC games, but averaging over a million on that I'll be curious with that two million the USFL

had with the Kentucky Derby, does that raise that overall? Is that enough to raise that overall network above that million when all it's said and done. But what do you make of that that the overall average being over a million here for the XFL and ABC. I would certainly take it as a good sign. It's better than being under you know, again, we don't know for a lot of these games that are on midday. We don't have anything

to compare it to. You know, I can go through and I can look at the FX ratings and I can say this is what FX draws in prime time, this is what the XFL drew in primetime, and say, yes, the XFL was above station average. I can do the same for ESPN two and say the XFL drew well above station average in the rating and the eighteen to forty nine, the total viewership in the eighteen to forty nine compared to what ESPN two does in primetime. But with ABC, some of

these games on the middle of the afternoon, you don't have that. Again, you don't have the data. We're missing that piece, that comparison piece two. Okay. For example, March twenty fifth, Week six, at one pm, it drew one point oh four seven million, okay, but what did it draw the previous week at one pm? What was the ten week average before that? You know, so we just don't have those numbers. You know, Week six that's the middle of the season where you had

the March Madness competition. So I think that's what really dragged that down in week six. I think still drawing over a million in week six and week eight, even as slim as it was, over a million are pretty good numbers to me as a layman looking at these numbers. So that's kind of my thing. And and you know, you talk about the USFL, is that two million post Kentucky Derby going to be enough to average it out over

a million? I really I don't think so. Simply because they have so many games on network on Fox or NBC that are drawing under a million, that's going to continue to draw that average down, so it may hover around a million, you know. And the other thing is I applaud usfl and an NBC for putting a game on right after the Kentucky Derby. I think that's that's something that didn't make it into my article. But the lead in's you know, we don't have the information the ratings on the lead ins of

Okay, what led into these games? What were the numbers leading into the games? I think it's fantastic that they had the opportunity to draw two million viewers after the Kentucky Derby. Year you're getting the rating up there, but you're also allowing a group of people who wouldn't otherwise sample your product to check it out. You know, the numbers don't say that people have gone back and watched it again week after, but you know, giving them that opportunity,

that's just smart scheduling on behalf of the USFL and NBC. And I had a conversation on Twitter with someone about this is Yeah, you'd like to see a stronger lead in, but those stronger lead ins are live sports, So for ESPN, that would be NBA games. Well, if you're airing live sports and live games before the XFL games, you're going to run the risk of having it run over into the XFL slot and not starting a game

on television until midway through the first quarter. Is that worth the tradeoff of the strong lead in or would you rather have a studio show that you know is gonna end right when it ends to lead right directly into that game. So just another factor to kind of throw into this pile that I've written about here in this article of the strength of the lead ins, that that's not

something we've really studied leading into these games. Well. Also, I think it's kind of like boosting the post on Facebook, right, Like using some of these lead ins where you're gonna hit you're hitting a lot more impressions on that, but the amount of for whatever it is USFL. You know, I used to boost my wedding stuff like you know that you're gonna hit more people the number of people they actually interested it, you know, I know

wwe tried that for years. And let's bring in the NASCAR guy. Let's bring in the guy from entourage, right, remember the post era, Oh please don't remind me, because those I think. I think if you go back and if people that tracked the ESPN PR the tweets every week that would come out from the XFL, I think you could tell how XFL felt about their ratings week and week depending on the stats that they pulled from that. Oh sure, where if they you know, they had a million, it's

like, hey, peaked, we peaked at one point three million. Whatever. The weeks where the ratings were kind of trash, it's like we had a lot of people in the stands that week, or hey, the video you know, video view impressions were up across. Yeah, I think that they're only champion the weeks. If I think if the ratings had consistently impressed for them, I think they would have championed out a little bit more.

But obviously they were happy certain weeks enough to kind of pioneer that. Sure, and you can definitely read into that from from the press release for for sure. But yeah, it just all depends on I know. Danny Garcia in one interview said they had a very complicated metric that they used to determine the success and I think that wasn't just talking about ratings, but it was

talking about attendance and things like that. So again without that piece, because you know, you're talking about were the ratings good, were they successful? Well to who right in what contexts? And the only context that matters is the XFL and ESPN because they're the ones who are the only ones shelling out money for this, and that money is going to either continue to fund the league or not, and so it's really up to them to decide if it

was worth it. It's interesting, and we've talked about it, you know, with Bill Shay last week and he has his article as well with The Athletic. I think, you know, it's always going to be harder for XFL because you're you're asking ESPN, hey, you know put us in here. Do that? You know foxes where they own this or incentivize one hundred percent, same with you. We're selling the playoff ads. Hey, you want to buy Super Bowl ads or you want to buy NFL on Fox ads

like you got to buy. ESPN's never never going to be as incentivized. And I don't know long term if that's going to pay ten times dividends for the USFL or not. But I do think that if Fox wanted to that, you know, they can continue to obviously place this as long as they want. Where you're always trying to like you're begging Daddy ESPN to kind of keep us on or keep doing things, and hopefully that partnership is strong.

It seems like it is. They seem to be on the same page ESPN and ownership, And as long as they're on the same page, to me, that's the most important thing. And and you know, one of the points I made in the article was, yeah, it would be great to have the XFL on ABC more often next year, but it's all about the

time slots. You know, ESPN is not going to bump an NBA game off of ABC on a Saturday, you know, when they're they're paying how many hundreds of millions for the rights to air NBA games, to throw an XFL game on there, I mean, that's just not reality. So there really is a limited schedule window to where the XFL can realistically play so many games on ABC or EVENPN for that matter. I mean, ESPN has a tremendous amount of sports properties during the season that they air on on ESPN.

So it's always going to be that struggle. Like you said, it would be a lot easier if ESPN owned the XFL, they'd be incentivized to give it more prime games and more prime time slots. But the XFL, at least until it shows that is sustainable and can can make a significant amount of money, it's always going to be playing second fiddle to these more upscale properties like the NBA, like at the NHL, like uh the NCUBA, a

women's basketball tournament as well that that airs on ESPN and ABC. Well, and like you said with the USFL discussion, I think in this season two of the USBL showing like just putting more games on network does not necessarily it's not going to double your viewership that you have to. And I don't know,

I don't know. I don't want to be the super negative USFL Like I don't know what's going on on this year with that where if that is you know, really hitting what they want or not, But I mean it is it is primed in positions to really dominate, and obviously they're winning in the slots, but it's like, you know, what, how how much of a margin are you expecting in these USFL on network games versus you know, XFL on fre on a you know, FX or whatever. Like,

I don't know what the margin they're expecting. I would imagine it's bigger than it is, But who am I right? And maybe the USFL and I talked about earlier, like, there's not a lot more they can do from an advertising perspective on their own networks to push that rating forward, Like they're they're doing all they can. So when they look at that, you know, they've got to be saying, Okay, where are we going to make up that difference? Then where are we going to get that rise from?

And it could be season three going into all markets that that's kind of the ace they have up their sleeve right now that they're still playing in four hubs. If they wanted to take the extra expense of going in to all markets and you know, putting a legitimate amount of fans in the stands, you know, that could help locally drive ratings. And so that's really where I think they could, more so than just throwing more advertising out there or just

having more talking heads on FS one talk about the USFL. I think if they look at their ratings and say, there's more meat on that bone. I think where they get that meat from is, you know, going out into all eight markets. Now, question is do they is it worth the added expense that's going to come with that, right, because that's what they have to weigh. Is it worth an extra three hundred and fifty thousand or two hundred thousand viewers on network TV? Is the added expense of running in

all eight markets worth that extra number of viewership? I don't know. Well, and they're I mean they're in not County in Canton. I mean they're in Birmingham, Memphis, and Detroit. And I would not say either of those three markets as tremendously impressed to the point of like, oh yeah, this is definitely it was like, I don't. I don't know if you categorically look at the Memphis hub right now and go, yeah, that's worth

that. I don't know what they're paying for that, and I don't obviously the forward field, but you know it's I don't I don't want to be too negative on here, but I don't know if it then magically doubling this from for the eight if if if I haven't seen it from going from one to four I don't know if I'm gonna see that's that's took a fair point too. Oh Greg, it's late for you. I appreciated anything else from you. I just really appreciate you, like I said, coming in and

doing this here later on the East Coast for you. No, I have a pleasure to be on here talking about it. Um, you know, just to plug my stuff on xfl board. I know it's the off season, but I've got a lot of content coming. I just today Thursday,

as we're recording this, I posted my final season summary. I went through all eight teams, did a season summary on xfl board of them, took a look at some of the team MVPs, took a look at some places that they can improve roster wise next year, took a look at the head coaches, and gave a one to five about the potential hot seat rating for each head coach and each team. So in the coming weeks, I'm gonna look back at November's draft and I'm gonna analyze how well the teams did by

draft phase. So I've I've got a couple of those in the can already. They'll start coming out probably next week, and then of course we've got the rookie draft. I on Twitter at Greg m Parks. You can follow me. I sort of admitted to the fact that I'm probably gonna end up doing a one one round mock draft of the of the rookie draft. For as you know, I've done read I've done a seven round NFL mock draft for twenty some years, and so, like, I love mock drafts.

As pointless as they are, I get it. I understand I can hear people rolling their eyes watching this, but um, I love the NFL Draft like it's it's my Christmas. And I've done this seven round mock draft probably since I was a sophomore in high school, and so the opportunity to do a real legitimate mock draft, even if it's just one round for the XFL,

I think it's just it's too good to pass up. So that will probably come out closer we get to to the rookie Draft on June sixteen, So I'm really excited about the possibility of that, and we'll just have so much more content in the offseason at XFL board. So check it out. You're really carrying the torch over there doing the good job. I appreciate that. And obviously if you're wrestling fanel the PW torch stuff, and I wish I had more time to watch wrestling so I could listen to you guys more.

A big weekend coming up. Man, We've got four major shows this weekend. We've got Impacts under Siege event on Friday. We've got WWE's Night of Champions on Saturday. We've got NXT S show going head to head with aw's pay per view on Sunday night. I mean, it's gonna be like, my eyes are gonna have to be taped open to watch all of this wrestling this weekend. I've done a couple of times other interviews on this show.

I think the the XFL needs to figure out like the the Tamasa Champa, John any Gargano NXT that to me, that was the peak that NXT ever was. And if the x BEL can figure out, how can we, you know, make a show that people want to tune in every week we feature these are our stars and then obviously you have the people to want to move up. That is what they need to do, is you know

that pre whatever they've done now and I don't watch NXT two win. But you know, all the triple h and all of that, that was the peak, Like we got our ten stars here and then you can watch with everyone else kind of go up to the big show. It's an interesting comparison. You a lot to think about reading good. That's well, Greg, it's late. I appreciate that my travel agents calling about my Hamilton flight. I mean keep I keep silence and over here, so well, we'll tax

you next time. But I appreciate you really doing the lord's work. All right, thanks read well, don't adjust your dials here. We have special

guests, really appreciate it. We have John Hodge here with three downation. John, how are you doing? I'm doing great rate, Thanks for having me. You have is that the Padre's hat on? I think you're trying to appeal to Andrew Murray here. I think I think he'll be a fan of you as well. Here. Even more after this, I was fortunate enough to go to a Padres game in San Diego a couple months ago.

I would be hard pressed to name a single player on their team, but I got this hat for free, and I had fun at the game, so I'm happy to wrap them um and hide my ever graying hair. Well, at least you have here. I don't have any more hair. I just grow it on my face. So I'm good. I'm gonna be there one day soon, so i'll it's it's gone gray and then and then it'll run out all together. That's good. Well good, we have good energy today. I saw Hodge back up in. You know, We'regina and now

we're trying to you know, I've turned over a new leaf here. We're trying to work and brace all this up. So I wanted to get John on. We wanted to talk CFL health and the preseason and everything else more normal offseason. Obviously, in our limited time covering the league, we had all the X and BELL stuff and then we had the CBA stuff last year. This year seems a little more normal. What are your thoughts going into the season. Well, it's an interesting time for the CFL. I think

that with the competition from the XFL the USFL. I've talked to a number of personnel people in the league who who have talked about how hard it is

to recruit talent at the combine. I talked to a number of individuals and scouting who do contracts that kind of thing, and they were talking about, you know, years ago, we were cutting guys who were seventh round NFL draft picks, or we're cutting guys who know our first team all acc or we were cutting players who, you know, these days were really excited to

sign. So I think that that works to the disadvantage of certain teams and the teams I'm talking about our teams like Edmonton, teams like Ottawa that are trying to rebuild after a couple of early down years, and I think it actually works to the benefit for the team that I primarily cover, which is the Winnipeg Loue Bombers, that have such a veteran core that you know, maybe ten years ago, you'd want to break up that court earlier because other

teams were going to stop pile talent and develop that talent, whereas these days other teams are having a harder time developing that talent. So you're happy to be an older team of the CFL and maybe stick together a little bit longer. So to me, I still think that Winnipeg is the team to beat. I like the retooling that the teams at the bottom of the league have done. I think Saskatchewan is better. I think Edmonton is better. I

think Ottawa is a lot better. And I think that I think that Montreal, despite their offseason ownership crisis, I think is I don't think on the field they're in a better spot than last year, but I don't think they've taken a huge step back, and off the field they're in a million times better position I think than they were a year ago. So all in all, I'm excited for the season. I think it's gonna be a good season,

entertaining season of football. I think the lack of parody hurt the league a little bit last year, right tuning into Edmonton Winnipeg or tuning into you know, Calgary Ottawa. I don't think a lot of people were going into those games with holding their breath as to who is going to win. And this year, I think there's gonna be more of that. I don't think

we're going to see four teams or fifteen win teams. I think the bottom team might have six wins and the top team might have twelve or thirteen, and that's that's a good thing I think for fans of this league and for the league itself. Well, if this feels like there's not. It's just it seems like there's been a dark cloud kind of the last couple of seasons with whoever else. It doesn't feel like the football can kind of shine here. You've got the new CFL Plus and we'll talk about that, but it

just seems like there's a lot of momentum, if that makes sense. I know there's been a lot of offseason movements, at least to me, it feels like a lot, you know, I mean the quarterback Carrassel and all of that. But I'm excited to see here as we get through preseason. Kind of the identity of these new teams. Well, one very positive thing I think that's happened is with the new CBA players being able to get guaranteed money on their contracts after they have been with a team for two years.

You're seeing a lot of guys not signing these one year deals like you did for the decade previous. You're seeing guys like Trevor Harrins go to Saskatchewan on a two year deal. You're seeing guys like Boliev Mitchell sign a three year deal. And Hamilton's Zach Collaris famously said ahead of last season and it's not in the best it's just of any CFL player to sign a multi year deal because teams don't actually have to commit to you. Well, guess what now

that the CFL CBA has changed. He signed a three year deal with Winnipeg. He's signed through twenty twenty five. And that makes fans so much more

comfortable not only investing in these players emotionally, but even financially. Right, you're going to see more Harris jerseys in saskatchem or Collars jerseys in Winnipeg because fans are able to identify with these players and feel safer investing in these players knowing that, Okay, I'm not gonna, you know, pick this guy as my new favorite player in August, and then by the next year he's off playing for another team or a team that I don't like. So I

think that that's a positive thing. And these are all changes that the CFL probably should have made five or ten years ago, or seen coming and anticipated becoming issues one day. They haven't. They dug themselves a little bit of a hole, and now they're digging themselves out. You'd obviously rather you know, you don't dig the hole, but you know, I'll give him credit for at least digging themselves out, even if they do themselves in the first

place, and it's a positive change. Pro sports is star driven in many respects. I think the CFLs a little bit less star driven than most leagues because these are such old iconic franchises like the Toronto Argonauts are the oldest pro team in North America. But the stars still matter. Obviously, what Chad

Kelly does in Toronto, for instance, matters. He has a star quality for obviously from his lineage, from you know, being nearby Buffalo, having a very notorious college career for better or worse, across a few different institutions. So you know, the more that you can cater to your stars, and the more that you can do to elevate the stars and make fans feel

comfortable investing in those stars, the better. Well that's the you know, And obviously we cover all the different stuff on here, but I do like when the page turns here we go to the CFL season, Yeah, you would be amazed with the die hard that we have for you know, it's two seasons of XFL or you know, we had this and you know, the US I'm like you know, go to the CFL. That's times a hundred. You know, you just have so much more history in the tradition

of all these teams. Speaking of jerseys and the Argonauts, you are, are we fans of the new? What is it? The baby blue? Crimson blue? What is the new? Do you like the new jersey? They call it Cambridge blue. Cambridge is the light and Oxford is like the dark. I honestly just call it navy and baby blue, because then everybody knows what you're talking about. I think they're fine. I think it's an upgrade over the last ones. I thought the last ones I'm not a big

fan of. And maybe this is just the media guy in me, but I'm not a big fan of jerseys that are hard to read, and I found that the light blue number on the dark blue jersey was just a little bit tough to read. Previous to that, the Argos had always had dark home jerseys with white numbers, and those are very easy to read. So I didn't like the new jerseys that they had last season for that reason. The brand new ones they have for twenty twenty three are extremely easy to read,

so I'm a big fan of that. I think the helmet detail is lacking a little bit, like it's very monochromatic, it's very just, you know, baby blue on baby blue on baby blue. I think maybe a

little more navy detail in there would have been better. And I'm not a huge fan of the oars they have on the shoulders, like like the Alouettes, if you google like Alouettes alternate jerseys, about ten years ago, they had these gray jerseys and they had feathers on the shoulders that were as kind of cool as like a modern take on what an Aloettes are obviously birds, but the argos Ores look just like that, And so all I could think

about when I was looking at those jerseys was like, oh, this looks like a riff on the old Alouettes alternate uniforms that they haven't worn in probably ten years. But but ultimately I do like them. I do think that's an upgrade. And I will also say this, it's not that long ago that the CFL's East Division. This is before Ottawa came back in the league in twenty fourteen. The East Division used to have four teams and four the more navy blue. It was Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal, which is just

silly. It's just silly. So the Bombers have since gone back to their roots, which was royal blue, not navy blue. The Alottes have kind of doubled down on it. But so I like the fact that the Argos are moved away from it a little bit. There's no team in Canada that wears that color, be it in the CFL or NHL, even so I think embracing that light shade of blue is a good move for that franchise. It's a little I tweeted, it's a little XFL rending gade, So the

rending Gade had a little bit. Yeah, it's good, it's good. You talked about off the top of that, you know, having to retain players XFL, USFL, you know, moving forward, do you see? And I think it would be the dream of a lot of you know, Canadian football proponents having to develop more Canadian talent, seynere Canadian talent that way, what you know, if this, you know, we don't know,

it could be tomorrow this all goes away. But if the XFL and the USFL continue here a little bit, what do you see the path for the CFL to kind of keep cultivating talent. Well, I think that's a great point, and it's something that I have talked to people about in this league, is Canadians getting opportunities at positions that normally they wouldn't get. I mean traditionally, like if you go back to the old old days of the CIFF.

I'm talking like the seventies and the eighties, teams generally played five Canadian offensive linement. They had to start ten during that era, so they would cash in their first five just on the old line, and then they would often stick you know, one or two lotbacks, you know, a nose tackle, a safety, and then maybe like a mic linebacker. And since then the number's gone down to seven. I think it went down to seven in the mid nineties, but don't quote me on that. Teams have generally

played American tackles with with with Canadian interiors. And now what you're seeing is so many tackles with expanded practice rosters in the NFL, with as you mentioned, the XFL, the USFL, I think more teams are looking to play Canadian tackles. We saw Dante boll Go at the first overall pick in this year's CFL draft at a Fresno State. He's a guy who started thirty three games with the Bulldogs, primarily at left tackle. You know, is he

the first overall pick you know, five years ago? Maybe, but but maybe not, because I don't think he's a guy who necessarily slots in great to guard. He is a kind of true tackle. He's got long arms, he's got kind of a thin lower body, a bigger upper body, and so I think that's a change that we're seeing. I think the Edmonton Elks are also going to a Canadian at tackle this year. It's looking like Josiah Saint John out of Oklahoma was the first overall pick in twenty sixteen when

Chris Jones was with the Saskatchewan rough Riders. He's probably gonna start at right tackle. So that's a change that we're seeing, and honestly, I think it's for the better to a large extent. Trey Ford, for example, was a first round pick as a quarterback, first one in forty years. Nathan Rourk obviously became a star last season, was in my opinion, the best player in the league. Though obviously he got banged up with the injury. So you know, this is a situation where be it strong side,

linebacker, quarterback, offensive tackle. You're seeing more guys get opportunities. And I'll also say this, if you've only been a fan of the CFL for the last ten years, you probably don't think anything of Canadians playing running back. But that is something that did not happen for a very long time. Like Sean Millington out of Simon Fraser, I think he was a first round picking maybe nineteen ninety, was kind of the first guy in a generation to

be a true running back in the CFL. And the next generation was this fabulous influx of allent guys like Jerome mess Him, Guys like John Cornish, Andrew Harris, who is still obviously playing they'll albeit on the very tail end of his career. Guys who all of a sudden, it wasn't just like, oh, he's a Canadian who can get in for some snaps. It was like, this is a guy who can be a thousand yard receiver, a thousand yard rusher, five hundred yard receiver and be an MP. Right.

We saw Andrew Harris in twenty nineteen. Were it not for the drug testing that happened, he probably would have been the MP. John Cornish did win an MP, Jerome mess Him I think won two Most Outstanding Canadian Awards. So these days, with guys like Brady olivera starting at Canadian or being a Canadian running back that's starting, it doesn't look odd by today's standards. But if this was, you know, fifteen years ago, it looked a

little weird. Thirty years ago, it would look crazy. So we've already seen that transition happen at some positions, and it's nice to see it happening in other spots as well. Last question with the XFL and USFL, you know, I don't know how much of it. I kind of resonated if you guys tracted it all this year. You know, if you did, you can speak on that. But you know, the XFL completing it season, USFL here going into season two, has that changed your guys' thought process

about like, oh, we need to worry about this. We said, like what is your current welfare check? With John Hodge on the XFL and USFL, I to be perfectly honest, I really don't follow the XFL or USFL. That being said, I think the temperature north of the border talking to people in the league is there's a hope that if either league stays around, it won't be for much longer. And I'm not saying that as a malicious, you know, wish of fans. This is not a representation of

how fans are feeling or how the public is feeling. But for obvious reasons, with the competition, personnel people in the CFL are hoping that these American leagues die and that is simply a professional desire for them to have an easier access to this talent because it used to be and most guys who are working in CFL personnel departments have generally worked in a professional environment where you call it players. And it's like, Okay, you're not on an NFL roster,

you're not on a practice roster. Even if you want to play, you got to come up to Canada. And by the way, you're going to be making fifty thousand American dollars and that's if you play every single game. You're gonna make less if you're on our PRU. And it's not a terribly attractive offer to a lot of guys, especially because Americans, and I think everyone's wired this way to some extent, they're hesitant to leave their home country,

right They don't know a lot about Canada. They don't really understand what the league is, and it's not until they get here that they kind of go like, Okay, this league, or the story we always hear from from American players modern times is I didn't know anything about the CFL, So I looked it up on YouTube, right, and they go and they watch a bunch of clips and they kind of go, Okay, I understand kind

of who these teams are, kind of what these schemes are. You know, the field is really big, there's all this motion, so you know, just given that they can stay local and they can make you know about the amount of money playing less games. I don't blame young players for deciding, yeah, I'll play XFL or I'll play USFL as my route to try

to get back to the NFL rather than coming up to Canada. So I can't speak for my own personal feelings or for the public in general, but what I can say is from a CFL standpoint, the hope is that these leagues, if one of them sticks around, or there's a merger of some kind, even that would be a lot better than having sixteen independent teams operated because it does chew up a lot of that talent that would have other ways

come up to the CFL. And I think the position that's hurting most honestly is the quarterback spot, where obviously every league, even the NFL, needs stars and a high level of play to have the best level of entertainment value associated with their product. I want to get your take on, you know, I and obviously we came into the CFL and it was very like tumultuous that you know, a lot of tension there right with the XFL and all

that, But todd with our listeners. You know, other people that cover and we have you know, with like CFL New sub and guys that cover these things, and not to me, the CFL is a wonderful world, like once you're in it. Right now we're getting ready for CFL coverage. I can call people, I can get you, you know, try to get you reporters and fans and go to the games and all that. But when you're when you're outside the world as a fan or either with me,

it's a little harder to break into, if that makes sense. And I feel like there's a level of the word I use is like gate keeping, if that makes sense, Like if you don't know or you don't know the last fifty years of you know, the Ottawa's, you know all this stuff, you know, it makes it hard to be a fan, right, like I hear I am even a new NFL fan, right I didn't. It was the XFL that got me into the NFL back in the twenty twenty, Like I covered the Seahawks here in Silla, but I didn't watch a

lot of other stuff. And I'm just curious to your thoughts on that, because like now that I'm in it, I love the CFL, love everything. It's great. But getting to that point, and I don't know if the CFL makes itself too hard to get into, you know, from a fan and even from players, well you gotta come up here, you got to work your ass off for three years and they maybe we'll give you a shot. I would say that that I think gatekeeping is probably a fair way

to say it. There is a lot to learn about the CFL. And I think the reason people feel that way, that that kind of sense of protectionism is because it is something that is distinctly Canadian, and I think as and I'm born and raised Canadian, I live in Winnipeg, was born here.

I do think that there is sometimes an inferiority complex for Canadians just in general, right and and speaking as a Canadian who works in the media, we are bombarded like like a lot of Canadians will talk American politics or engage and I have a family in the United States by I got a family in Boston, I got a family in Saint Louis, like a family and a number of US cities, and we're in tune with your politics and things that are happening in the United States. We talk about, you know, all

kinds of political things, whether it's the abortion debate, the gun debate, things like that, because we are inundated with your media and we know that the same is not true in reverse. And that's appropriate in many respects. Obviously Canada has I mean, Canada's the population of California. So you know, it's not reasonable for us to think that Americans are ever going to be anywhere close to us in tune as what's going on in Canada as we would

be there. And that being said that that can be a good thing,

it can also be a bad thing. Like like a lot of Canadian radio stations for instance, or network television have regulations in place that a certain amount of content has to be Canadian, and the reason for that is they're aware, the government is aware that if people are given carte blanche to play whatever music they want or whatever television shows or anything like that, that it's inevitable that American media is going to win because there's just so much more resources down

there in terms of eyeballs, in terms of money, in terms of all those things, and your currency is also stronger. The Canadian dollar is worth about twenty twenty five percent, depending on the day, less than the American dollars. So I think that all of those things culminate in an environment where where Canadian football fans and CFL fans it. For the record, I am

an NFL fan. I've always followed the NFL, not as closely as the CFL, but I've always followed both, even in silent like I grew up as a little kid playing Madden, so like, the NFL has always been part of my life. But there is I think that sense of protection or fear where it's like, well, people are people are gonna judge the CFL before they get a chance to get to know it, or people are gonna, you know, they're they're they're gonna they're not They're not gonna give the

CFL a proper chance. So why would we give them a chance to fall in love with the CFL or learn about the CFR or know about the CFL. Because I do think the general feeling in Canada is that three down football has better rules than four down football. I will personally say that I am a proponent of that thought. I do find the three down game more interesting

than the four down game. Um So, I think that when you talk about CFL fans being a little bit you know, or engaging in some gatekeeper ism, if you will, I think it ties into a larger conversation about what does it mean to be Canadian and also what does it mean to be Canadian in an environment in modern times with you know, not just traditional media but also new media and digital media and social media just being inundated twenty four

to seven by the American news cycle and American culture and American content, which again in and of itself is not bad, but is also at times, you know, at least can be perceived as a threat to what Canadians, you know, perceived to be theirs or perceived to be unique about Canada, because Canada is a different place. It's culturally similar in many ways. In many ways, it's it's very dissimilar. So I think that it all ties

into that big mosaic of what is Canada, what is the US? And how do Canadians feel on any given day about what that relationship is like that dynamic is like, well, no, it is and it's I get it and I understand it all kind of having lived through it now, but it is you know, it is alarming when you try to get into it right and now you know, having kind of lived through it and talk to people, and I think going to the to the Great Cup, the first Hamilton

when we went to like, you get it when you when you get all these people in the room when you're talking with it. But it's online, it's always worse. I mean, and obviously we we've lived through that and everything else. But um, thoughts on the kind of the health of the

CFL here. I know we I've watched obviously the preseason game and I want to get to ultimately the goal of here of the CFL plus discussion, uh, you know, seventeen thousand in Calgary, which looked to me, you know, having tracked XFL attendance all year is phenomenal for me for you know, preseason game. But uh, you know we I had heard reports, you know, Calgary they're not going to sell the Upper Bowl. I just saw Pipple's Pod had an article that like mosaics trying to lower concession prices,

Like, what is your health here going into the CFL this season? Obviously Amar Doman, you know, making big strides over at BC, how are you kind of feeling welfare check? I think the CFL is in the best place it's been in in a long time. Um, that be said, there's a lot of work to do. And the reason I say that, at the end of the day, I think the sales in a good spot

is largely due to ownership. I mean, Pierre Carl Pelado is the first local owner that the Montreal Elettes have had in decades, and he's a billionaire, Like you can't you can't really argue with that. And also if his level of engagement was in question, I mean he was at their first day of training camp, which I thought is really cool, Like training camp is

boring just by definition, like it's it's generally not interesting. In a three week training camp, there might be four interesting things that happened, be it an injury or whatever, right or or a big a player arrives later there's a suspension right like or a fight like like. Training camp is boring by definition. And Pierre Carl Pelado took the time to be there as a billionaire,

which I think is super cool. And and for the record, training camp is in TWI Rivier, Quebec, outside of Montreal, so he had to make extra trip to get to Quebec or to get to that trading camp. It wasn't just as easy as walking down the street, which was really cool. And aamardman you mentioned him. He's doing incredible things in Vancouver.

UM the community owned teams in Regina, Winnipeg are doing very well. Edmonton is struggling, but I think that Victor Quee, their president and CEO, who's done incredible things in MMA through his own career, I think is the perfect guy to lead them to that that new generation of success. Things have gotten bad in Calgary to some extent. We just had Ryan Ballentine, our own contributor, who I believe has been on your show before Reid, he'll

be on episode Yeah, there you go, There you go. He's like he had Jay McNeill on his show, he'd be the best person to talk about this. Jay McNeil is the vice president of business for the Stampeters. I believe he is next in line to be their president. John huff Nagles, the team's president, huffs into his seventies. I don't imagine he wants to be the president much longer. At some point, you just have to

enjoy your life and go fishing. So I think that the leadership is in is generally speaking across the CFL, in position for this lead to be successful. The issue is they were really weakened by the COVID pandemic and they're they're just behind on a lot of digital trends, and that's getting into the CFL plus thing that I know we'll talk about, but you know they're there. I think coming out of the pandemic was just about survival, and this next

chapter is about thriving. And I know that you know, the league keeps talking about expansion. I don't personally believe that expansion is any closer to happening now than it was twenty years ago, which is a big problem because at some point people are just going to get tired of talking about expansion because we

talk about it and it never happens. With that said, I will also say for people who haven't followed in the CFL for more than about a decade, like Ottawa folded as the ugh Riders in nineteen ninety six, they've been around over a century. They came back as the Renegades in two and then folded after the O five season due to bad ownership. And so after they folded a second time, there was a period of almost ten years where everybody said, well, we all know that the CFL will never work in Ottawa

because it's failed twice now in the span of ten years. And now the Red Blacks are arguably in the best position of any privately owned CFL team, Like they have a young crowd, generally at TV plays, and even though the team has been objectively terrible for the last couple of seasons, their ticket

numbers are still pretty darn good. And again, their demographics, I've been led to believe are some of the best in the CFL in terms of getting women out to games, in terms of getting younger people out to games. So, you know, this league has a ton of work to do over the next five years, and I think they've wasted Frank lay some time and

resources on some initiatives that have just been a waste of time. But I think that the initiatives they're starting to prioritize and the groundwork they're starting to lay, if they are able to make the right decisions and have the right leadership and execute things the right way, to make some very positive steps in the next five years. Yeah. So, speaking of the TV deal, right, obviously, we are primarily American listeners here very excited going into the you

know, the season. We were there last year, Ambrosi, Okay, we're doing Genius Sports, all that big excitement whatever. This year, we have the American TV deal that's coming, right, it's coming. It's coming. I think I had Randy on during the CFL media day. Okay, it's still coming. And then you know we get to and it, you know, it feels a little bit like a wet fart, right, Okay, we're kind of on CBS Sports, right, We're kind of on you

know, we're kind of on the CFL. I heard donk on Rod Show this week talking you know, like people complaining, Like, I don't know who can complain about anything free. I mean the CFL, like it works great. I watched the whole thing, But what do you make of this, like splinter than we we've got more money than we got before from CBS, but now we're giving away kind of half of our games for free.

Well, I think this is kind of a necessary evil, Like this is something that the CFL has tried to do for a long time, which is monetize. It's right south of the border. We all know that Americans love to watch football. Traditionally that's been NFL on college. I know that XFL and USFL ratings, and you're obviously much more familiar with those numbers than I

have. I know there's been a lot of fluctuation. I see things on my Twitter timeline where one week there's a game that pops off but people seem really happy, and the next week there's a game that does really poorly and people start ringing their hands. So that's the extent of what I know about their ratings for those those other leagues. But obviously, right we are a country in Canada of again about forty million people. A little bit less.

If you can turn even you know, two percent of NFL fans into hardcore CFL fans, this league could double its television revenue and that would be incredible. The rights in Canada are worth about fifty million dollars a year. I've been led to believe that the old TV deal with ESPN paid in the neighborhood of you know, one to two hundred grand, which is you know, next to nothing. We're talking like less than one percent of what the Canadian

d role was. Reportedly, this new deal with CBS is one million dollars, which you know is two percent of what the Canadian rights are. So they're moving in the right direction. But this is not a revolutionary source of income for the CFL now through CBS, and I think what this new deal with the free streaming services for the CFL is all about data collection. This is something that's going to allow the CFL to know who exactly is tuning into

our games, where exactly are they tuning into the games. Because the CFL, right now, you know, they sell the data. They sell the at least in past years, have sold the TV rights and ESPN just syndicates everything, which is cool. But now you're getting more money from CBS, You're maybe losing some exposure, but what you are doing is you're checking on Okay, how has the exposure previously on ESPN translated to people wanting to watch

us? Because the CFL doing this themselves means they're exclusively going to have the data of who is tuning in? Are these men? Are these women? How old are they? Do we have an older crowd in the US or a younger crowd? Where are people tuning in? Do we have a surprise bastion of CFL fans in Florida versus Oklahoma? Or is our is our bread and butter? Texas versus California? Like? Where where are people tuning in? Why are they tuning in? And also which teams are they tuning into?

Do we find that Bolivy Mitchell's ratings from his tenure being a star quarterback in high school in Texas? Is he a real push for American fans like our fans going out of their way to tune in a bolia Vy Mitchell is

playing? Or are they going out of their way to watch that Calars who albeit ten years ago, was a big star at Cincinnati with the Bearcats, Like This is something that I think the CFL is going to use this season to collect that data, and the more data and that they have, the better they're going to be able to sell things down the line to potentially other television partners where they can go, Okay, we gave away service for free

for X number of years. These are the million data points that we've got, or millions of data points that we've got, and we want to give this to you to now monetize it to the best year of your ability and also specifically target your ads to these people and something else I'll mention this is probably getting ahead of the game a little bit, but long term, right, we've seen the NFL start to dip their toe into online streaming and not

selling their rights to traditional media in the form of television, but instead doing with online partners. You know, this would be a game changer for the

CFL. If Apple right came along and said, yeah, we want to exclusively broadcast your games to the world, so outside of Canada, We're going to give you X amount of money and the CFLs just gonna live on Apple TV like that, that is also a game changer potentially if a non traditional media company, if Amazon wanted to come and say, yeah, we're gonna

make Prime the home of international CFL. That market. I don't think it's huge right now, but by giving it away for free, I think the CFLs hoping to grow it and have the data to try to enhance that and make it make it better as time goes on. Have you did we get a sense? And I know we've just had the one so far, and it was the great CFL preseason thunderstorm, and there was a lot of different things in within to it. But any sense I emailed Lucas, like,

any sense is that how many people logged into that? Because I know and obviously I have a just my small stamp on Twitter. Yeah, but I tweeted out, hey, wat something, I've probably had twenty people. Hey, yeah, well you know I signed up too. You know I got them. The thing? You know, this is like, you know, obviously a fraction, but you know, if I could get twenty twenty five people here, Like, do you have any sense of how many people logged

on? Or are they going to release those numbers at some point? I don't and I would be very surprised if they announced anything. But with that being said, at least judging by a like an informal, you know, social media sense of things. I was also, I think, you know, at least pleasantly surprised by how many people seem to be watching. I know, obviously people are hungry for CFL action. We haven't had any in six months. And it also helps that the game happened on the long weekend,

right, Canadians had the Monday off we called Victoria Day. What do you guys call it in the States? We don't, Well, we have Amorial Day next weekend. This is I worked, okay, yeah, okay, so Americans were working, but Canadians were of this past this past Monday, so we we it's Victoria. We've just called May long. Really But

anyways, that that obviously helps that people are generally not doing anything. I also think putting things on a Monday afternoon of the long weekend is really smart because a lot of people are going to use the long weekend to travel or go to the cottage, and they're they're back home by by later in the day on Monday. So that's I think that from a scheduling standpoint, was

very helpful. Um. I will also ask the league once this is all said and done, how they how they felt the streaming wet, and how the preseason live thing worked in Canada. But my guess is they're going to keep any numbers and data points they have very close to the chest because like any smart business should. My speculation is that they're going to try to sell this to somebody or at least use this information to turn into money at some

point down the road. Yeah, because my fear with this and like I said, I don't know, you never want to complain with free stuff. And you know, the production was fine, that Mark did a great job. You know, Mark's calling the game and I can't remember his co host, but you know Mark's on there and he's a friend of the show, Mark Stevens and um. But you know, like we got money from CBS Sports. You know, no one else wanted to pay for the other part

of that. Now we're doing, like do CBS then next year do they sit there and go, well, we're not going to pay as much now because there clearly wasn't you know what I mean, there wasn't another I'm just curious here years after that giving this, like the CBS realized there's not a buyer's market for the Cbowl. And I don't know why there's not because I said, people clamor for football all the time. I don't know why there's

not that appetite here in the States. Well, and I mean the thing that I keep hearing and I mean even um, you know this is something with you know I've heard like Pat McAfee talk about is like oh yeah, like you know, back in training camp with the Colts, like we would always watch CFL games and people generally watch their exposed to the CFL fall in love with it as as you have for instance. But yeah, it could be a hard game to get in front of people. I mean, and

it's it's never been tougher to get eyeballs on a particular product. There's just so much happening in a digital world all the time to get people to tune in. I know, one thing that the CFL really needs to change is

currently they are extremely protective of their replays and highlights. For instance, if you know, for instance, part way through this broadcast read if you wanted to intercut it with a touchdown pass from you know, Believa Mitchell to Kamar Jordan from last season, you would probably get a letter from a lawyer the next week saying that that's a bad thing, and I, personally, in

the modern day, think that that is completely backwards. We need to be putting this product that is exciting and is interesting and is entertaining in front of as many people as possible, and maybe giving away a number of games for

free to the people of the US. Will prop the CFL to make that decision and say, Okay, maybe instead of policing who is sending out our highlights, maybe we should encourage them to post highlights because if somebody watches a highlight in May of something that happened last year, they'll be more likely to buy a ticket to a game, to a home opener next month. Because I think that's a huge problem. People right now often go six months without

seeing a single highlight from the CFL. That's crazy, right, Like, I'm on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Twitter. Every day, I swear I see some type of NFL highlight Lamar Jack's rolling out making some crazy play, or justin Jefferson completely undressing a corner on some unbelievably nasty route that he's run. We need to get that same exposure for the CFL. So I think the giving it away for free, I mean, and look, if CBS doesn't want this to be given away for free, they get

to show all the games. They're not doing that right. They chose to show under half. There's eighty two eighty one regular season games. I think they're showing thirty seven. So if if CBS didn't want this to happen, theoretically they could have ponied up more money and stopped it. And and the CFL is has decided to fill the gap, which which I think is smart.

I'll let you go here, see and my promise, I appreciate the extended time here because I, you know, in my position, just as you know, trying to give views and you know, all this kind of stent like yeah, I was trying to look at the other side, you know, and I saw Hey, Randy came out, Hey, we're champion

this. It's free. We want access, you know, because I always think, well that's the way you spin it when we'll know what no one wanted it right that we well, now we're going to champion the other side. We're going to say, well, no, we want to give this away for free. We want people to have access to it. That that's how you spin that. You get what I mean? And I know that I've heard for years. You know, Randy's the biggest spinner in the world. Like do you do you read that? And do you are do you

agree disagree? What are your thoughts are? Kind of how I how I viewed it? Well, I think Randy Ambrosi's job is ultimately to be the CFL's biggest salesperson. Um, So obviously he's going to talk about it in glowing terms. Um. I've been highly critical of Randy Ambrosie for certain initiatives that he's undertaken during his ten years a league's commissioner, um, which I mean, he still feels like a new commissioner. I think he's been at

the league now for some like seven years, which is wild. He's now one of the longest tenured commissioners in league history. That is, by the way, something the CFL is notorious for. In the NFL or most national leagues, if you get the commissioner's ship, it's like a lifetime gig, and the CFL we kick you out after three years. It's generally a pretty short lived position for one reason or another. But that being said, I

do think this is positive. The CFL was stuck in this rut where for many, many years they would sell their rights to ESPN for pennies on the dollar and ESPN wouldn't promote the games. They would throw them on a random channel. Often they would make the decision extremely late, far too late even for you know, engaged people to say, Oh, okay, where am I going to watch the game? Is this on they're streaming? Is this on two? Is this on for like like? It became very confusing for

people who are watching the games. And now for the CFL to say, hey, over half of our games are here and they're free, that's a

pretty idiot proof way to get more people engaged. Yes, you have to go the extra step to signing up on CFL dot CAA, but that's not a hard step to undertake if you are someone who cares about the CFL, and if you're someone who happens to just have CBS and that particular channel, literally every other game is there, and from my understanding, CBS will be making an effort to make it clear with bumpers and things like that when the

games were actually on, because that is another piece of information I hear from US fans all the time, which was, oh, I would have watched the game on Friday, I just didn't know when it was happening or where it was. And I think we do live in an era now like when I was a kid, you had the TV guide handbook or you'd look at the newspaper for when things were on. That obviously doesn't exist anymore. People are not patient enough to go and seek out hours and days at advance when

is this happening, Like appointment viewing is kind of dead. You really have to spoon feed people and say this is what we're showing and win and make that very easy for people to connect to. So I think it's fair if you want to criticize that it's being given away for free. I would be concerned if there was no TV deal and the CFL solution to the ESPN deal no longer being a thing was just to say, okay, well, rather than selling it for pennies on the dollar, let's just give the whole thing

away for free. That's not what happened. They partnered, albeit with what I understand, a more niche company in the market, but they got more money and they're getting more exposure and controlling their own data. So for that reason, I see it as positive in a way. It's the best of both worlds. You're getting more money and you're also collecting your own data by having people come directly to you, and you can't beat the direct to consumer

model and not going through that third party. So is this a perfect long term solution. No, But I don't think that we or any endeavor should ever get caught up in not doing a deal because it's not perfect. Because good is a lot better than nothing, and the new deal is not perfect, but it's good, and I think that that is a stepping stone to potentially in the future getting a deal that's very good and then great and maybe

there's a fantastic deal to be had in twenty five years. But this is a long term process and I think this is a positive step towards whatever that long term goal for the CFL is, which I would imagine is to have American broadcasting deal that is on par or even bigger than their Canadian broadcasting deal. Yeah. I mean what like you said, Apple, right, I mean what you would do just to have it on I do And last thing for me on this. I just you know, and it feels a little

rushed here getting into the season. Right. We got the radio broadcast all that, and I know that they're going to obviously stream the TSN broadcast for like the regular games, you know, considering that the CBS Sports Network, it's going to be like the app whatever, And I got to figure out how to get on all that before, you know, over on the season too, Like if we have like a CFL app you know they like on

the you know, Apple TV or whatever. Because doing the laptop thing, jumping back, like I wish it was like that where I could be on Apple TV. I could go, you know, I got my CBS Sports here, I got my whatever. Because I'm like airplaying the stuff off my laptop. I mean it's not super elegant right now, but I think it's kind of a stepping stone. But hey, like it worked. I went on. It worked, it's free. I was able to watch it. It didn't cut out, you know, even through all the kind of stuff.

So I think it could have gone a lot worse. And I think once obviously they just broadcast the TSN games, I think going to look a lot more professional, you know what, I mean, well, yeah, and really that's what everybody wants, right. We kind of want to, in a way go back to cable where it's just you turn on the TV and everything that's on is on. And the great thing about Netflix ten years ago was you turn on Netflix and everything you want to watch is there.

And what we've seen over the last ten years in that kind of streaming ecosystem is the deterioration where all of a sudden, it's like, I feel like, if I want to watch everything, I need twelve streaming services, and I don't know what's on what, and I don't know what all my logins are because I pay for this one and I share that one of the friend and this one is my parents, and this one's my neighbors that I secretly don't tell them that I use, and it just becomes chaos and people get

frustrated and then they tune out. So I agree with you. In twenty years from now, and by the way, that might be the goal, launch term goal for the NFL. In twenty years, you just turn on the NFL app and you watch all the games, and the NFL is going to sell all their own advertisements and they're going to do it for hundreds of billions of dollars, some ungodly sum of money, and that might be the model the CFL wants to copy on a'll be at a very much smaller scale.

That might be the route NHL goes or whatever. They'll just pay their own people to cover the games and talk positively about the league and ignore all the negative stories that independent media would cover. Maybe maybe that's the model, because as a consumer, that's certainly what I would want. I just want to be able to mindlessly turn on my television and no, okay, every single thing I want is right here. I don't have to think about it, I have to worry about it. I can just focus my energy and

attention on my job or my personal life or whatever. I don't have to spend any time or energy worry abot when to watch our TV, because that's that's not where we want to spend our energy. So I get it, that's what I want to But we're in a very weird place, I think, in media consumption in general, where ten years ago we started digitizing it, and as the digital space has exploded, what that's done is it's taken something that used to be very simple and made it very complicated. And I'd

like to think that long term the reverse will happen. It'll become more simple as streaming services amalgamate. I know Hulu and Disney Plus are amalgamating in the United States, you know, I think that that process will will take place

and eventually there will only be a couple of streaming services left. But in the in the intermediate, yeah, fans are gonna have to do a lot of work if if they want to watch stuff, and hopefully this new agreement for at least the CFL well will help simplify that process a little bit. Yeah, someone that's had conversations with my mother last week about getting the NFL Sunday ticket now on YouTube or whatever I can. I can definitely craborate.

It's a challenge. John. I appreciate anything else from you today. Before I let you go extended time, I said, I appreciate you hanging on here. No, no, nothing for me. I appreciate you having me and uh yeah, good luck with the show. Enjoy the CFL season. It's gonna be good that John Hodge over at three now. I appreciate your time today, Thanks so much. Thanks Boston well, I'm excited today.

I remember the day that we got involved in all this CFL twitter and I saw you know, Valentine here, you know, tweeting. I said, I know that gentleman. I watched him on Big Brother Canaba. We've gone back and forth, finally getting you on the show, one of the stars, a Big Brother of Canada six, but more importantly kind of a Stampeders guy. Now for the you know, Three Down Nation? How are you deal? Ryan? I'm doing well man, Thank you. Yeah, it

was It's funny. I joined Three Down Nation just before I went on the show. I was in my callback audition. I was sequestered in a hotel room in Toronto when I got the call from Duncan dreut Words at the time, and they said, hey, you know, would you want to think about writing for us? And I was like, well, I got nothing else to do because I'm in sequester. So I've banged off three or four pieces and they liked them, and so I've been there ever since. So

they were fortunate. I was fortunate in that they they mobilized their audience to vote to save me at one point, which I appreciated. That's good. Yeah, I lived through the Big Brother Canada for a while, and then after COVID I kind of fell off. I went through them. When that season kind of got cut, it was it's hard with the VPNs and all of that. But we're here today. The man survived the great CFL preseason

understorm. Here we were watching the Elks. I watched that whole thing start to finish you with River and Mark Stevens or listen to him and Dave Campbell everything else. We had our first preseason game. How do you feel about the CFL being back? Well, I mean, obviously, anytime you get CFL football, that's a good day. Uh you know, I'm I'm a big fan of the of our game and how it and how it plays, and and for my money, I still think the CFL is the best rule

set available of all football leagues. So um, you know, anytime we can get back to what I consider real football, that's that's what I like to see you talking real football. You're gonna get the USFL fans at you because USFL apparently that's the real football. That's what they say. Look again, you can have your four downs all you want. I appreciate that you

need the extra time to get ten yards. But you know, a three down game with a much larger field, that's just it's more entertaining for me to watch because it's got more possibilities than any of the four down that's good, you said, yeah, fan control football, they have some power up. Since I've you can look at you're a fan of voting and a big brother and all that. We could do some fan votes and bring in that. I think they had the fifth down and flip the field and kind of

all this stuff. So yeah, that that that's a lot of video game stuff that I mean, sure that that can that can be fun. But from a day to day football standpoint, I'll take my CFL rules over any any of the other brands. So we had the Stampeders here, you know, first year now under the full tilage of you know Jake Mayer, right, I mean he kind of with the bow and we had all that last year. Jake was on the show last year. I said, I want to get on your bandwagon early. I want to kind of hitch my ride

there. How are the Stamps looking this year? I knew we've just had the first preseason, but obviously training camps and all that. How are Stamps looking going into the year. Well, I mean, if you're if I

think basing it off of that first preseason game would be a mistake. Uh, They're They're only you know, they're only eight days into camp and there's been wildfires raging in Alberta here over the over the first eight days of camp, so much so that practices are being canceled or converted into video meetings or being relocated. I mean, there's all kinds of things that are happening here in the first eight days of training camp for both the Stamps and the Elks.

So I don't know that this was the best showcase of their early talent. But if you look at Jake Mayor from last season, he was the third highest QB rating of any QB in the league. If you pro rate his stats out, you know, he's about a four thousand yard passer, which is what you want from this team when they're as good as they are in the run game. I think Jake Mayor doesn't have to be a world

beater to beat the world. This season with the Calgary Stampeders, well, yeah, and we saw codem Gary out there doing well and I said, yeah, they said, well, they only want to get him in for a little bit ago. Yeah, let's not wear him out there. But it seems like he hasn't lost to be I've seen the interviews I there that with you or whoever posting you. He wants to rush for however many yards this season and they want to be all that. It seems like they're company

with the head of steam here. The Saint Peters. Yeah, they were one of the youngest teams in the league last season, and they've brought back a lot of those guys. They had a lot of injury problems, especially in the defensive secondary last year, and a lot of guys were able to gain game experience to come into this season. So if Calgary is able to stay healthy, I don't see why they're not in the Great Cup conversation in terms of yeah, the West, I don't know. It's kind of why

they're opened. We got the Vernon experiment now kind of going into season two, and obviously you know Saskatchewan's made moves. So what do you make of the West kind of start to top to bottom. Well, I think you've got You've got Winnipeg and Calgary at the top. I think those are the two teams that will be at the top. One of those two teams will

host the West Final. I don't necessarily like Saskatchewan. They were on their old line was on roller skates last season, just consistently and constantly pushed back, and their answer to that was to go and get a less mobile quarterback in Trevor Harris. You know, Trevor Harris has a much faster release than Cody Fajardo does. But at the end of the day, I mean, you know, he's going to be on the run a ton. I don't

necessarily like what Saskatchewan has. I figure them for an under five hundred finish this year in BC. I mean, you know, yes, you said it's year two of the Vernon Adams experience, but really what it is is the Nathan Rourke hangover and realizing that the best quarterback talent that this league is seen in a long long time is no longer in the league. And can Vernon Adams be as successful as they were last year? I don't think he

can be. He's been a quarterback that is successful in spurts throughout his career, but has never really dominated. And I think the difference between that team being as good as they were and as bad as they were. The year before was Nathan Rourke. So I don't know that BC takes many steps forward. And I mean the Elks are a dumpster fire, have been for a long time, will continue to be. I don't believe in Taylor Cornelius Kevin

Brown up there as a running back. Maybe they're only saving great they have an incredibly deep receiver's room, but I just don't see Cornelius as an on target quarterback. Why you know, now, how many years are we going to give Chris Jones? Because I know he came in and people are upset and you know, hey, it's gonna take time. I mean, this is going into year three now, right that the Chris Jones like how long?

How great of a leash does he have? And obviously we hear and you know, you guys reported that you know, Edmonton, Lucy, and you know was a two million dollars or three million dollars that like seems like not all as well there in Edmonton. Yeah. I think if Chris Jones doesn't have a playoff team this year, I don't know if he survives the off season. Um, you know, he is an expensive hire and when you look at Edmonton's report, A lot of the reason why they lost money

was because they're still paying severance to a lot of people. So as long as that's on the books, they may not make a change up there because they're still paying off Brop, Sunderland and A Hervey and all kinds of people up there, and that's a big chunk of their loss. But I think if Chris Jones doesn't make the playoffs this season, I think the team up

in Edmonton has to seriously look at it. I mean, we're not and to steal a sound a famous football sound bite, when I say they're trying to make the playoffs, I mean they're also just trying to win a game at home. They haven't won a game at home since changing the franchise's name, and that like it's over twelve hundred days or something since they've won a game at home. You know, they may not be looking for playoffs, but a home win would be a step forward for this club. It was

funny. I had I shot a wedding last weekend and the couple it was like their nine year anniversary and they knew exactly they were. It was a three thousand three hundred and thirty three days since they met, and it was like if they didn't plan it that way. But I said, god, the fact that you went back and they were I guess you can plug that into a computer and calculate that, but I just seemed like a wild number they'd be able to pull up that. It's a long time for Edmonton.

Did you feel like they looked good? And I'm going to talk with Dave Campbell get obviously because you're going to be biased. I'm just kidding, but like, how did you How did you think that Edmonton looked And you know, obviously there we're moving quarterbacks around and kind of doing all that stuff. Yeah, Jared Daggie looked the best of their quarterbacks. He was on the run, he was making on target throws on the run. I thought that

Kyle Locksley that experiment should end. Um. You know, the guy's a good receiver, but I don't want him as a quarterback. And Jones has this kind of mentality of trying to put players where they may not belong initially because they're athletes, and teach them how to play the position. But it was also weird to me that he brought Locksley back into the game at all.

You know, the idea that he had three quarterbacks and one of them played the first quarter and the fourth quarter, which was separated by like two and a half hours of actual time. That was really weird to me. But I thought Daggie looked good for French, which I'm sure isn't how you pronounce it, but that's how I'm gonna say it, because there's two fs at the beginning. Um looked good as a receiver in spots, but he also dropped a couple of crucial ones late when Edmonton was trying to get back

in the game. So um, you know, I like the idea of Kevin Brown. He was a guy that really kind of stood out for me as as um an Elks All Star last season, but he didn't make the trip down the highway. So if he can duplicate the kind of game he showed tour in the stretch Drive last year, Edmonton will have a very dangerous running game. In terms of Calgary, it didn't you know, obviously we had the bow and all of that, but they were already kind of divorced

from him anyway. Just it doesn't feel like Calgary had to do a lot here in the offseason, have you note like, what did they need to shore up the what did they kind of done leading into this year? Well, I mean you did lose falerin Or Mulatte and Sean Lemon, both of whom combined for twenty two sacks last year, although Lemon went to BC and was cut or before even getting to play a game, which I thought was

surprising considering he's the reigning most outstanding defensive player for the West Division. But so they did have to rebuild their their defensive line in that way, bringing in James Voters and silent signing Julian House there. Um, you know, Kamar Jordan left, So they need to find a third receiver. And who's

that gonna be. Is it Trey Adam's Duke's able to step into that spot, or will it be a guy like Tommy Lee Lewis coming out of with a lot of NFL experience but a little smaller or their their incoming draft picked from a couple of years ago, Rice and John. He's six foot seven. They targeted him three times on Monday, but he was unable to come down with the ball. But I do think he makes a very intriguing red zone option. Yeah, what was the deal with Shaun Lemon? I do

he did recently cut? Like what it is? It just a big fall off or I can't say. Sean Lemon is one of the most intriguing guys in CFL history to my mind, that he has ninety two career sacks and he's played for like seven different teams and just can't stay on with any team for long. And he keeps leaving Calgary to get more money and deserves that money when he gets it, but then eventually, you know, just something goes wrong, he doesn't work out in that market, and he ends up

finding himself back here. So I mean, you know, I don't know that there's a lot of money for Sean Lemon in Calgary, but I sure as hell would take him as a rotational d ND if there's a contract to be signed health the Calgary franchise. You know, I heard that we're moving seats to you know, we're not selling up and I thought seventeen thousand was tremendous audience for a preseason game. I think that Danny Austen had put that

out. You know, we've been tracking us of l and CFL attendance throughout the last couple of years. What is the health of the Calgary franchise. Well, I mean we had we had president Vice president of business Operations, Jay McNeil on our podcast earlier this year and he said he said, our season ticket base is less than fifteen thousand, which is a drama at a drop off from even five years ago. I think it was twenty two or

twenty three thousand season tickets. So seventeen thousand for the preseason game was definitely an announced crowd. That wasn't a butts and seats crowd that was tickets sold. But I do think they can't you know, I want to say the fans here relatively spoiled. I mean, this team has been good for thirty years, you know, they've they've been in the playoffs seventeen years in a row, and so the fans here have a great Cup expectation, not a

great Cup hope. And given that Calgary hasn't won one since twenty eighteen, They've lost the West semifinal the last two seasons, you know, I think fans are thinking that there might be a better way to spend their money. I mean, never mind the fact that the games are on TSN. They're free, you know, for to watch every single game that's not preseason,

although they did stream the preseason games, but every game's on television. So do you want to go down to the oldest stadium in the league and you know, line up for a porta potty bathroom and go to an underserved concession where you get sometimes a warm beer for twelve dollars? Or do you want to sit at home and watch your four KTV with your your six pack that you bought for eight bucks at the local store. You know it, it's hard to get people out right now, and I think it's even harder because

McMahon is not a destination. You know, you look at some of the other stadiums in the league and they're nice to go to. You know, I've been to the New Mosaic. It's a nice stadium to watch a football game in. I you know, Winnipeg has has their new stadium, which is a nice place to watch a football game in. But Calgary just right

now, it's not you know, I love McMahon. I think it's got the best site lines in the league from any seat, but at the same time, you just, you know, for the for the average casual fan,

it's not enough and the fan experience isn't enough. Well, it's just hard because you know, we've been told here the entire time talking about the CFL gate driven and now we're obviously doing the CFL plus streaming thing to hear for free in the States or you know, we're getting some money on that, and then the people always complain about TSN and the money that they're getting

from that. But you know, if that's the preferred way to watch it, I mean we even deal with that with the XFL, where the the XFL broadcast and the access you get on TV as far superior than watching it in person. But then you still, you know, then you get crapped on if there's not anyone in the stand. So I just it seems to be an issue for a lot of different reasons, but issues for a lot of these leagues right now. Yeah, it's it's it's switching to the model.

I mean, I have trouble with the CFL is failing or is in trouble narrative anyway, you know, I look at I look at TSN, and the TSN deal provides five million dollars per team, per season to each team, and the salary cap is five million, eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the players. So you can't tell me that even fifteen thousand season tickets at you know, an average of sixty bucks a game over nine games, that that's not enough money to run this franchise. You know, I

think it's always interesting. Edmonton losing two million dollars last season was an anomaly. Normally, when you see the public teams open their books, they're at just above or a little better than break even, and they've always got some

sort of fund that they're paying into that draws that eventual number down. But it's impossible for me to believe that every publicly run team in the league either makes money or breaks even, and then every private team must lose an absolute ass load of money in order for them not to be profitable for the league to be profitable. So I just I don't buy it. I think it's a story that the owners tell to keep salaries repressed, because when you look

at the books of the public teams, they're all making money. That's interesting. Yeah, the Edmonton thing was interesting, and I know we brought in Victoria. We're trying to do a lot of different like you know, promotions and things, and it says there, I mean, why was that so kind of out of the blue there that in terms of that loss, they've lost money for a couple of years. COVID is still kicking everyone's ass too.

I mean, let's not let's not forget that. We're just you know, this is probably the first season where we're not worried about going into public anymore. Like the perception of going in public is that it's safer than it has been for three years. You had a canceled season, you had a truncated season, you have and then last season you had a full year.

But now you're trying to claw back from those season ticket sales. We got told on our show that that's the Stampeders retain about eighty six percent of their season ticket holders every year. They have a fourteen percent turnover year over year, where you don't have new where you have new people coming in and buying

tickets, and you have people no longer retaining their tickets. And when you look at the COVID season, you know you lose fifteen percent of your season ticket base there and then from the canceled season, and you can't sell those tickets to people. They didn't decide to have a season in twenty twenty one until about two weeks before, so it's too late to get those people back

on board, and so you lose another fifteen percent through regular cancelation. Well, now you're down thirty some odd percent in your overall ticket sales, and that you know, they're just starting to try and recover that now. And I think that's across the league. Attendance was down almost everywhere, and so I'm not surprised to see that happening. What are your thoughts on the American CFL Plus deal CBS Sports Network amalgamation. The more Americans that can watch the

better football game, the better, you know. I understand that CFL plus um or. Yeah, they were on I believe they're on ESPN Plus before, and now they're on CBS Plus, which gets to fewer households but has more viewer that. I'm not sure about all the metrics behind it, but from what they're saying, this is the most um this is the most financially lucrative US broadcast deal they've ever signed. I'll take it any anything that brings more money into the league is better. Um, I think if you're if

you're out there, I think you should be. You know, if you're watching the mark Cast during CFL season, you're gonna get a lot of CFL talk, so you're probably already a fan of of the league. But if you're stumbling across this because you you caught onto the show during USL USFL season or XFL season, I encourage you to get out there and watch CFL football. It's really great quality football. It's a league that's been around for more than a hundred years. And you know, and you and I have gone

back and forth on XFL and you know the previous failures. Although hey, they got to the end of the season this year and it looks strong, looks like they want to go again next year, and that's great. But for my money, the CFL probably has the second best collection of talented football players in North American football and in the world because this is where we play it. I think I think the second best set of football players are up

here in Canada. And I think that proves out with how many guys sign n NFL deals every season out of this league. It does it. It just real quick here it change your tune at all. Yeah that the XFL here, where you've crowned the champion, USFL here is get a crowned the second champion here in a couple of weeks. I mean again, I don't think that that changes my thought on where the best players are because I think what what the CFL game does is it features the athleticism of players that may

not focus too heavily. When you're talking about a four down, one hundred yard game. Um, you know, you you get guys who have the ability to make plays up here. You know, linebackers that can track guys across the sixty five yard field. If you look at Alex Singleton, he bounced around to a bunch of different camps before. Now he's you know, he's having nineteen or twenty tackle games in the NFL because he was a guy that learned to pursue across the sixty five yard field. Well, that's something

that translates down into the US game very easily. So I still think that the best collection of talent is still in the CFL from a football perspective. That may change over the next couple of years, you know, I think, but the USL and XFL right now are are They're gathering their rosters from players who weren't on CFL rosters already. So that may change in the next couple of years here, but for now, I still think that your best

collection of American born players are still in the CFL. Yeah, last question for me, do you does Bo have a resurgence this year? What is Bo? And I've seen the media photos now we have Yeah, we had all the photos that there, we have real photos of him. Like, is he going to have another two three year career here in Hamilton's I want him to. I like bow a lot I like bow a lot um.

You know, I don't know if he's going to be able to win a Great Cup because the only two times he's won a Great Cup championship was when he showed up on our podcast here in Calgary in twenty fourteen, twenty eighteen. Those are the two times he went out and won a Great Cup. But I do I mean, you know, I like the guy. I think he's great for the game. I think he's great for the CFL. It's great to have a guy that's out there that that that's that brash and

it's got that kind of swagger to his game. Uh, you know, I hope he has a resurgence season in Hamilton. I just you know. They they often said in Calgary throughout the nineties when Wally Buano is here, it's better to let a guy go a year too early than a year too late. And the news today that Orlando Steinauer is saying, I don't think the bow will play at all in our first preseason game. I don't know

if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's very possible that either scenario is equally as likely that you know, he's not ready to play in the preseason game and so he won't be playing, or they don't think he needs to because he's showing out so well in practice. It's it's going to be a really interesting watch from a guy who's shoulder may or may not be ready for the rigors of a full season. I think I got Steve Milton come on on next week so they will do a deep dial on

the the Levia. But so you're telling you had the reverse effect because mcab BELLEL. Thompson was undefeated in the USFL until he came on our show. Now he has the last two games in the row. So you have you have the opposite effect where you all when we were the CFL Horseman, we called it the Horseman bump. The amount of time Alex Singleton came on our show before he was a starter, and then all of a sudden he was

the Defensive Player of the Year the next season. We have a lot of guys that show up on our show early in their careers and go on to become stars. I can't take credit for that. That's all the Stamp Peter's drafting and developing. But our track records pretty darn good. Yeah. Meanwhile, I have Ben Holmes no show my podcast and then went up and won the Great Cups. So what you're saying is I need to let the Stamps

media know that no Stamps are to do your show at all. Well, Ryan, I really appreciate it. Like I said, we bantered back and forth, and now CFL season, I'm sure we'll be talking more online. But I really appreciate you taking the time today. And like I said, I just it was still just surreiled that day and kind of discovering CFL Twitter, because it really did all come like it was I think it was either the Irash episode. It was like the first day and we're like, oh

my god, this is the whole world now. So I really appreciate it. Hey man, my pleasure to come on and just let me know when you want me to come talk stamps in the future. Well, I appreciate

it. We have sitting outside the beautiful CommonWell Stadium there. It looks like tray four the Edmonton Knox. How are you doing? Yeah, really good, just you know, enjoying training camp and getting back into football, which is fantastic. Looks like a beautiful day. What's your day consistent right now? Where you have going on? Just for this practice? Early this morning, you know, did some of the hot tub, cold top therapy kind of routine. It's some lunch, watch a little film. Got another meeting

coming up at four and another meeting tonight. So full day. What's it like getting back into Yeah, like you said, coming off the offseason, getting back into you know, the real deal here. What's it feel like? Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's it's felt fantastic, honestly, way better than last year, just based on the fact that you know, I'm a second year player now, like I knew a lot more of the

offense coming in. I remember like last year at training camp, come in, you know, doing the install going back to the hotel, studying toil like twelve o'clock, wake it up at like five thirty six, talk, and then you know, you don't get a lot of sleep. The days get long really fast, versus now it's kind of just a refresher so's it's a lot quicker to review the material and then go perform on the field, for sure. Yeah, how hard this is the acclamation process of getting up

there. I mean obviously you know you're Canadian having played up there, but you know, coming in and you got you know, Chris Jones, Barkinacci and everything else. What's it like kind of coming into that situation. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I actually came in like a pretty good circumstances. Team accepted me pretty well, the coaches all, you know,

super cool guys. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it was just it was just learning the offense was definitely the tough part, especially at the quarterback position, especially coming from like OUA and going to a professional level with a lot of guys you know, who've coached in the CFL for many years and even in the NFL, so it's it was definitely a struggle. I'd say learn the offense because just in ou a new sports in general, it's

a lot more simplified. And then I would hear the stuff's a lot more complicated, so it does take a little bit longer to catch on and everything. So did you feel extra pressure this as a quarterback being taken in the first round like that and coming in as a Canadian? Did you feel an added pressure? Uh? No, I didn't. I didn't feel any added pressure. I always, like, you know, hold myself to a high

standard. So whether I was drafted in the first or the seventh, or fall was an undrafted free agent or whatever, was expecting to win and perform and do well. So I would say there was definitely more stress just put of myself, just because I was wanting to do well versus being drafted in the first round. What was the year like for you last year? Obviously, you know the team had struggles and and you can't you know, dealing with injuries and all of that. It seems like you gave a spark when

you came in. I know a lot of people have been clamoring to see more of you. What was the year like for you last year? Yeah, so there was definitely some highs and some lows. I mean, you know, I like just looking back at it, you know, the last you know, a week we went and we looked at our preseason games. So I remember, like looking back, I just watching some of the Winnipeg game today. You know, I was fresh, like, you know, new meat on the block. I went out there and first six or seven

plays, boom pusier. They really made sure I had like I had to know my offense right. I hadn't know where my hots were and everything, and I struggled a little bit that game, I could admit it. But then I came out in the second week against Calgary in the preseason and I played like a lot better than I remember too, Like I played extremely well in that game. I thought, for you know, being in the offense for four or five weeks at that point and being a rookie and everything,

so I thought I actually played really well that that thing. But I'm always so hard myself, Like I was thinking back to it last year, I'm like, I could I could have been better. I could have been better, But this year, coming in and evaluating the film from last year, I thought, I thought I did really well in that second game, and then you know, just waiting, trying to buy time to get my first career starting an actual game in an actual regular season, and then I got

granted that opportunity. In the fourth week, we played Hamilton and I put together a solid game. I would say, not nothing fantastic, nothing crazy, but you know, I don't think. I don't think I want us the game, but I don't think I lost us the game. And our defense was able to step up and actually help us win that game, which was fantastic. So we did end up getting the first win of the season. And then you know, starting to get confident, you know, feeling

good in the offense. Come out Week five against Calgary at home, Boom boom. A couple of plays here. I have a big explosion play where I'm breaking tackles, running around in the backfield and bull ball of fifty yards out of the field. Big play, and then we had like a quarterback

power the next player. Then I got hurt and then I missed you know, eight weeks, and those were those are a long, long eight weeks, Like you're out here when you know, when you're actually active, you come, you come to the facility, the day goes by super super fast. But then therapy you're just kind of lagging around all day trying to do your therapy, get a little bit of workout day and stuff. So yeah,

those were definitely a tough, long eight weeks. And then you know, I mean, I'm an adamant film watcher, but it's I personally like enjoying watching film that I'm actually in. I feel like I learned more from it. It's it's a lot harder, right because you're like, oh, maybe would have did this a little bit differently, did that a little bit

differently. So it was definitely it was it was a long eight weeks, but then I got back into it after and I got another start later on, I think the last game of the year, and I thought I did pretty well. Now last game, Uh, definitely definitely some mistakes, but I mean I definitely seen an improvement from the start of the year and then even now just being here in this training camp, I definitely can just see

and feel the difference my confidence throwing war on timing. I definitely just feel a lot better in the offense overall, and I mean I'm super excited to get this year rolling. What was conversations obviously you had with coaches and staff

and everything. What were your position coming into the year, because it felt like you gave the spark last year obviously got hurt, and then it felt like you kind of got like, you know, and we love Taylor and then we've covered him back down to the XFL and all of that, but it felt like you kind of got leaped over and so what is it?

What is your position now or whatever? They you know, whether they have those conversations look like, um, yeah, I mean I've been told that I'll always get a chance to compete for the starting job, and I mean I'm super grateful for that. But i mean coming in and you know, viewing things, you know, not trying to be biased towards me or towards Taylor anybody, Like I understand they have him the starting guy right now.

I mean he stepped up last year when the team needed him. He did a super super great job, and uh, you know, I'm grateful he was there for our team last year to pick him up. But I mean I'm still here to compete for that starting job. Obviously if if he compete does better than me, you know, when he wins the competition, Uh, that's great. He's gonna you know, lead the team and everything.

Even if it's you know, even if I get my chance later on in the year, you know, week eight or four or twelve, whatever it is, I'm just gonna be ready for an opportunity that I understand. He's the guy right now. But you gotta play. You gotta do well to keep your job, and so you know, it's always job hunting out here in professional football. So but I've got nothing, nothing bad to say about

Taylor. He's a great dude. I'm always cracking jokes with him. Great guy, he's a great leader, and I think we got a really good quarterback right hand. Yeah. Does that give you extra motivation seeing, you know, obviously him getting the contract and know when you're coming in and kind of seeing, hey, maybe that's something I could get to or with either with Edmonton or somewhere else. Does that give you that motivation? Yeah?

I mean it's like, obviously you always want to be able to, you know, get the best contracts you can get, you know, make the most money you can make. But I'm more focused on just like I don't care if he makes more money than me. Like, I'm more into who gets more first downs, who's driving the field, more completions, touchdowns,

better shows, and everything. So I'm definitely more focused on the actual football aspect and then if you know, if you can go out there and compete and do well, all the other stuff will come based on how you play.

In terms of we're we cover bes, I mean, we cover all everything, but I'm out here in Seattle, so BC is kind of our team as well as Edmonton obviously seeing the success and Nathan work has been talked to death, but getting the spotlight on you guys, as you know Canadian athletes Canadian any position, especially as a quarterback, do you carry that as as a badge of honor? Do you want to? Does that put more pressure on you? How do you view that and how you compete? Uh?

Yeah? So, I mean I'm grateful to be Canadian and playing in the CFL for sure, and I do I do carry that title. I will definitely embrace it and try to be a role model for young Canadians moving up. But at the same time, also it's like I embrace it but I also don't want it to be the definition of me. You know, I don't want somebody keeping me on the roster because oh, I'm a Canadian

quarterback, I'm a good look for the team or anything like that. I want to be kept on the team or being a starter based on how I play and being a dominant quarterback in the league, not just being a Canadian quarterback. How many conversations preseason they've circulated around the whole home losing streak and wanting to kind of remedy that this year, Yeah, honestly, I haven't

heard a lot about it. We do have a we have a like a newer receiving corps this year, a couple of new pieces on the old line as well, and even on the defense, we got to new guys. I think we're a lot further ahead this year than we were last year, and I just don't think a lot of guys are super aware of that yet. So maybe coming up, you know, on Saturday, they'll talk about it a little bit. But yeah, I haven't heard a ton of stuff.

I don't think a ton of people actually know the losing streak we've had at home. But I can guarantee we will win a home game this year. One hundred. What is that? Coach Jones? Like he's been on the part, he's been on our show. I would call him a friend of the podcast. What's he like is you know, mentor and a coach and everything else. Yeah, he's a he's a super great guy. I mean, I think he's a fantastic guy. I think he's a fantastic coach.

I think sometimes you know, like I have people talking to me about how, you know, the media makes him look a little more kind of hard, gritty and you know, like a loose cannon a little bit. I feel like, but he's a he's a super great guy. Nothing but

good things to say about him. He's a great coach. And I mean, I'm super grateful that he picked me, you know, selecting me especially in the first round, to come out here to Edmonton and you know, build a new team and you know, get Edmonton back to where they used to be a couple more here, I'll let you go, I appreciate it. Here After meetings and everything else, hit me and what you know, goals for you this year? Like I said last year, you said some

real highs and some real lows. What are you looking forward personally to accomplish this year? Uh? Yeah, So there's like, you know, I have all kinds of different goals that I'm aiming for. I mean, the biggest one is to just be the best quarterback that I can be and be

the best leaders for the team that I can be. That's definitely number one, And I think if I can accomplish that, I feel like a lot of the other ones, like like re earning the starting job, right, and then it would probably be more to trying to become the leading pastor getting our team to the playoffs, winning a championship. I think all those teams kind of fall in after getting that starting job back and becoming the best quarterback that I can be. So, I mean, it's not it's not gonna

be overright. I'm not going to be the best quarterback I'm going to be this year, not even next year. You know, probably it's it's gonna be over time. The more the more you learn, right, the better off you're gonna be. Do you feel like going through last year really kind of hardened you mentally and emotionally? Here that kind of you know, because

I mean I've never i haven't played a snap of anything. But you know, I've been told football it's the most of you know, But just having gone through all that so early in your career, do you feel like that's hard to you and prepared you now? Yeah, I honestly I feel like, uh, I mean, no, nobody ever wants to get hurt,

and you know you don't want to miss any weeks. But I mean, I think it was a I think it was actually a good thing for me to to learn, because you know, we're like going through high school and then O U A U sports. I was always, you know, I was always the guy right, and I was always kind of just like kind of guaranteed everything. But like you know, you get to the professional level, you realize nothing's guaranteed. Everything can change after one snap, right,

And I had to. I had to learn last year how to be in that backup role and how to try to motivate our team off that um, how to play, how to practice, how to prepare for a game, because it's it's definitely a it's definitely a learning curve for sure. I mean, and you don't want to you don't want to prepare for a game as a backup because I'll tell you what, for everybody who is doing that,

it's a terrible idea because it's one snap of way. Like even if you ask Taylor, I mean you talked to last year, he probably wasn't expecting to go in that game when he had to write, kind of just happened. So I mean, everything's only it's it's one injury away and then your name called and you've got to be able to perform. So you always got to prepare like you've started well, Trey. We like I said, we get more questions about you and wanting to see you play in Edmonton than anyone

you know. Obviously you know CFL quarterbacks a little fluid sometimes, but I hope you get a good opportunity to this year. I'll be watching the preseason games. We have our CFL plus now I'll be watching here in the States. But really excited. Like I said, Edmonton's one of the teams we hold dear. So I really appreciate your time today and wish you luck this year. We're excited for you. Thank you, I appreciate you. Awesome man. Good luck and we'll see you well. We had to show them

in on XFL. Now. Eric Eager was Super Sports back we're talking USFL week seven. I can't believe we're already. I saw Brett today posting like playoff tickets. We're getting ready for the playoff tickets. How is USFL season two treating you? It's been good. I've you know, I've really enjoyed watching the games. Early in the season, you had a lot more scoring, uh you know, and then the last few weeks, uh, not

so much. I believe every game when under last week, if I'm not mistaken, h seven to last eight have been one out right by underdogs, many of which were underdogs by quite a bit. So it's been an interesting season. I've certainly enjoyed. Uh. You know. Spring football is always like a nice like drink of water during a long sort of walk in the desert. So I like it a lot. Is it? You know? And we talked last year and had you I mean, is it living up

to season two? Did you expect more growth this year? Is it where you thought it would be in terms of you know, production and talent and everything else. It's actually better than I expected. I think that, you know, continuity has really been cool for the league. Right, so you watch, you know, the new Jersey Generals, and you get Darius Victor and you get you know, DeAndre Johnson although he was benched this past week. You know, when you go to Birmingham, you get Alex McGoo.

You know, you had Jamar Smith before the injury. Um, you know, and some players coming on in defense on defense, and then you have some you know, injection of good talent in the league with Breeland speaks in Michigan and and I think the coaching is other. Yeah, it's been better. I think the coaches that struggle in year one have all been replaced and have actually been better, I think than previous years. So, uh,

it's been good obviously. I think that. Um, you know, there's there's some question about, you know, is it better than the XFL, Like what would the best team in the USFL be on a neutral field against the best team in the XFL. Like I'm not really like concerned about that right now, especially with both leagues they're not on at the same time. Really, Um, it's it's met my expectations. You said, scoring down there has been a thing. I mean this last week we have to shut

you know, shut out. The Stars have won two games now without scoring The defensive touch shot, Like, what do you attribute that too, because it's weird, like we should be peaking kind of here and there the end

of the season. Yeah, I think, I mean it, defense is generally harder to put together than offense, right, and um, you know you have weak link systems, you have you know, secondary play that I think was off Um, you know, I think more holding is being like I don't have the data in front of me, but I think more holding is being called on run plays, which and pass plays, which is hurting. Um. I think there's been a reasonable amount of offensive past interfere and

spent all these calls as well. So I think that there are just like things the league is doing that suppressing scoring a little bit. And then the quarterbacks that I think, you know started out really strong, you know, the the McLeod Bethel Thompson's the Alex Mgoose of the world, You're not And even in Michigan where you know, Josh Love like was really good early on, Like, I don't think that those players are really playing up to where

they played at the beginning of this season. And you know, offensively does go as quarterback play goes. Do you feel like they've done a good job this year with assemble in the quarterbacks. To me, obviously, McCloud is kind of a big you know, the off season signing. But you know, like you said before, the continuity and you know, DeAndre Johnson and

all the others. I think so, I mean even but we even look at like Case Cookus here for example, like he really didn't you know, he's really not gotten protected, right and that and that's a really hard way to win. As you said, they won, you know now they're three and three and three, I believe in Like you know, they won the first game. Offense was fairly strong with Corey Coleman and and you know, uh Colburn and stuff like that. But you know, you don't from there.

You don't really have you know, the offensive line to protect him. And he's gotten beaten up and it doesn't look like he's gotten he's been able to like sort of maintain uh, you know, even what expectation would be under pressure. Uh, And so you know you've seen a decline and play there. Um. You know that that to me, I think is a big issue. Obviously, we saw Case last year get looked it would have gotten more looks after the season but obviously had the injury and then right I

think he was a cup of coffee with was it the rams? I think he got in there for a little bit. But do you see any of the quarter backs here stand out that you would think would get looks following the season. I think Cucus, if he comes out of it healthy, probably will. He probably would have heady and godn't gotten injured in the championship game. Um. I think beyond that, it's you know, we saw some quarterbacks that weren't particularly good in the XFL get looks, so you could see

that happen. I'd be surprised though, given that there are two leagues, and I think many people believe the XFL was the better of the two leagues. With Benda Nucci getting a getting literally signed by the Denver Broncos not only a workout um, and the third quarterback room the NFL changing that could help a lot as well. Like you know, there is like an incentive to

develop these guys. Now, it could it could lead to more. But I just don't know if quarterback play has been good enough across the league, like Kenji Bahara has been okay, I think he's been probably the biggest surprise.

Maybe he could get a look as a you know, athletic young quarterback, but I think it's I think it's gonna be hard for a lot of them other than Cookis were you surprised ye had that Denci was signed so quick and then I'm seeing like immediately throw and pick sixes and everything else in practice. Like to me, that was kind of shocking. I mean, good

for him, but like very very quick. Denucci to me was interesting because I don't know if you got this view when you were watching the XFL, but Denucci felt kind of Kyle slowderish to me, and that there were there were good things. You'd watch him make a complete shore, like, oh, that's pretty impressive, but they weren't scoring as much as a guy with like that brilliant of a season, right, Like you know, Slowder was first team All USFL last year. But it wasn't like the New Orleans Breakers

had a great offense um and they couldn't finish in the red zone. And there were there were some games, I know, the overtime game was very

clutch when they put up enough scoring there to win. But for the most part, like he was not delivering and I think, like Seattle, you know, there were some games where they were in the teams and he was not particularly impressive, even the game, you know where they had to win to get in the playoffs, Like the first half of that game, they only scored six or seven points, and you're just like, you know, I think a lot of people look at football like artistically more than they look

at production. And I get that to an extent, But I think the Nucci is going to fall into that realm where I think he was doing some really cool things. I don't know if he was doing some very he was, he was all that much more effective than some of the other guys were. Talking the quarterbacks with the USFL, have we started seeing the delusion of talent with the two leagues or do you feel like that we're still kind of waiting for that down the line. I think I think you are going to

see it a little bit for sure. And I think if the NFL starts to carry more quarterbacks because of the rules, I think you could very much see that. So to me that that might be, that might be part of what's baked in. I have not like watched these games and thought to myself, oh my gosh, there's not enough talent. I you know, and maybe I have reasonable expectations about what this league should be, but I have not watched a game and thought to myself, oh, wow, the

talent's really bad. I mean, you know, there was a game where, you know, uh, the Philadelphia Stars I couldn't stop the Houston Gamblers, and I said, this is this might be the worst defense in in pro football. But I, you know, for the most part, I've been I've been fairly okay with the level of talent across the league. In terms of best teams right now, I mean, you know, it seems like it's in the South Breakers kind of coming down a little bit. Obviously,

Stallion's holding in there. Who are you making kind of your pick here in the South? Yeah, when I look at this, I do think the Gamblers are a team that that you know, initially I thought it was kind of a flukey thing, but I've had to sort of adjust my priors. I make the Gamblers about it, and this is how like condensed the

league is with some of the underdogs winning. I make the Gamblers the second best team in the league, one point five points better than the average team on a neutral I still make Birmingham four points better than the average team on a neutral but you know that's declined over recent weeks. I mean when they were when they beat the Memphis show Boats, was it like forty two to

two or something like that. Um, you know, I certainly it's certainly he made me adjust for a while and think that they were they were a team that needed to be you know, sort of reckoned with. But for the most part, Birmingham has not been as you know, as strong. I know, they won and covered the other day, but they have not been as strong as as suggested. You know. I also think I make

New Orleans a point better than the average team out of neutral. Uh. And then from there you have Memphis about you know, a little bit below an average team out of neutral there, you know, whereas I only make one team in the North. Uh, you know, up, you know, better than the average teamount of neutral, and that's the New Jersey general. So the South is gonna be hard. Um. I think Houston is, you know, by stacking up wins when other teams have it and put

themselves in a really good position. Um. But I think Birmingham is still the best team there. Why did the Generals get that up up in the North Division? Why did they get that from? You? Defense is really their defense is really good. Um, offensively, they have to figure out quarterback. I'm not sure why they gave you know, DeAndre Johnson maybe a little bit banked up, but I'm not sure why, you know, they would give the entire game to Kyle Aletta to me, who isn't you know?

You know, he made some impressive throws, but for the most part, was very weak the other day and has been for most of his pro career. But you know, defensively, I also think the running game. They lost a game against Philly basically because Darius Victor couldn't hang on to the ball three fumbles. I think eventually things look right to the top. I think Mike Riley's one of the better coaches in the league, so I'm good given them that benefit of it out In terms of Riley doing good, I

think Barr Andrews has looked tired. I don't know, I see him and I was joking like him in case Cooks kind of on the sidelines. Really a horrredous game for them last game and the turnovers and all that. I mean, he seems like he's really not locked in right now. Are you noticing that? Yeah, it looks unimaginative for sure, Like they haven't you know, last year they were kind of wide open in case Kukus was a

lot of fun. Brian Scott before him. I'm even Costello in the championship game, like was able to get them in the backdoor to cover the spread in the championship game. But I just think, you know, it does look it does looks tired and and you know, when you have an offensive line problem as bad as theirs, like, I don't know what there is to do. They have shorted up a little bit defensively in recent weeks, but some of that is turnover. Look, some of that it's getting a

pick six against New Orleans. Some of that it's getting h you know, all the turnovers. Although they moved the football enough to kick eight field goals against against New Jersey, I think that that was a little bit of a of a fluke as well. So I think that, um, you know,

it does look tired there. I have them about an average team on a neutral field, and that's just because you know, three other teams, uh, you know, or two other teams in their division are the worst teams in the whole league, and the Mallers and the Panthers and you know, the show Boats are kind of they're emerging a little bit, but they're still, in my opinion, a little bit below that would Yeah, is that a stat you would champion? The eight field goals and most like No,

I mean, at least you're getting into scoring range. And I know that. You know, red zone efficiency is not a stable stat year to year, in game to game, but they've done it now for a few games in a row. As you said, like they've moved the football. Okay, they've gotten turnovers. I think the getting turnovers part is the really unfortunate part. But they had not been able to sort of capitalize on it, which has been unfortunate. I you surprised Mahlers looked like they had life.

Now they don't. I mean that it looks like they're kind of back down in the door, kind of in the dungeon again. Yeah, they they Defensively, if you can play some defense like you're gonna you're gonna have, you know, you're gonna have some Okay things happen to you in this league, and they did that offensively. I mean what they wouldn't like the first two or three games, so that's scoring a touchdown. Last week they

couldn't score. Um you know, if you had if you had them against I mean they were favored by three against Memphis to open on bet online. That was I texted my friends, so this is the easiest bet you've ever made in your life on Memphis. And then you know, second half of that game, you know they they you know, Memphis didn't even want to really move the football in the second half of that game. And still you know Pittsburgh can't do anything with it. So yeah, I think there's funky

at the beginning. And that's what I like about this league. Last year, you had teams like Michigan, you had teams like Pittsburgh, um, that really added nothing the whole year. Houston was a competitive team, but not they didn't win. But teams that weren't even competitive week the week, like Michigan, uh and and Pittsburgh you kind of have. You don't have

that this year, but those teams are starting to fall off again. Yeah, because it seems we've we've championed and for better or worse, I don't know if if having parody across the league. I hear both things, where like you you have timody losing indivisionals that what do you make of that?

And the parody here headed into week seven? Well, I mean, if you're a gambler or something like that, like you really do like the parody because you like being able to just you know, take underdogs every week and hope and hope it works out, especially in a league where there's not a ton of scoring right now, like that to me appears to be the right way to do it. Um does that does that make for better football?

I'm not sure. I I personally think the last few a few weeks have been you're low scoring in a sort of ugly way and im and I'm interested to see, you know, if that thing turns around in terms of you said you're talking to your friend to the you know, putting the wagers on and so. Has there been a lot of action Have you noticed that Is it better worse than last year? Because I know you guys, you know all complained last year about like getting the injury reports and kind of everything to

be able to do that effectively, to gamble and all of that. Have you noticed an uptick this year. I haven't, but I'm also like not gambling now with with sumers. So you know, I I think the DFS tournaments have not particularly I don't think that they've had the overlay or the or the the payouts that that you really want, which which is unfortunate. Um. I think that there are some sharp groups that are that are betting USFL for sure and moving lines. Um, but I think that they've gotten killed.

Like if you look at the last few weeks, uh, you know, some of these totals have gone from mid forties to high forties and the games are landing like in the twenties. So I'm not maybe you know, licking their wounds a little bit because this league has been hard to predict, and i'd been hard to predict. Is good obviously, you know, um with the league with so little data, but that means you have to be disciplined and not and not you know, obviously I think you know more than

you do. Is that so? Is that just a byproduct of the football? Is there things the league could be doing? Is it just hey we got it's year two of this and teams who are just trying to win And I mean what do you attribute that too. I think that they're calling the games, you know, in a way that will be more conducive to unders. Like they're calling holding, they're calling a legal man down field. They're doing a lot of things that like I think you have to call them.

But it's one or two I mean in a game, and the clock. The clock is also a big deal, like when the clock is running like basically the whole game, Um, you can't have you can't punt, you

know, and and it's weird. You also can't have drives that gets you to midfield and you punt, and you know, with the kickoff being the way it is, a lot of teams are starting near midfield and then punting and then you know, pinning teams deep and like that, you know, and there's a turnover or something like, it's not going to be conducer to scoring, and that just um, you know that that's just a you know, an issue of you know, kind of like the way the way the

game's branded. But I think that there's a little bit also in kind of how the game is being called that has been a little bit less fortunate as far as scoring is concerned. It's interesting, I want to get your thoughts on the a little bit more on the kickoff, and then we can do kind of the matchups here before we get out real quick rapid fire. Um. You know, we obviously have seen the NFL this week and all that and the fair catch and everything else, and the XFL kickoffs been circulating USFL.

They're you know, booting the ball halfway down the field here kicking it off. It was at the twenty five now twenty like, what do you what do you make about, like you said, kind of artificially inflating teams, you're able to start the almost midfield without getting touched. Yeah, I mean I think that's helpful for trying to get more scoring. I think it's it's obviously like a basically thumbing your nose at this idea that kickoffs are more

dangerous because they're they're not really innovating. They're just making sure more kicks are returned. Um, and you know, unlike the XFL, which I think at an innovative solution to the problem. So yeah, I mean it's going to help. And I think kickers in this league have been tremendous for the most part, which has been cool. I you know, the special teams

in general, I think are what's fun. And you know, one of the reasons I like, uh, you know, spring leagues is it kind of takes you back to when quarterbacks weren't as good and when special teams mattered more and stuff like that. And that certainly is the case in the USFL. It's a little bit weirder in the XFL because of you know, no extra point kicks and and and the kickoff rule being the way it is,

uh and punts being the way they are as well. Like I think that it's um, it's a very interesting uh you know, discussion about you know, the relative values in sports. Are are these leagues missing the mark now that you know they're not really developing? Like Kavante Turpin's a special teams player, Like how much more how much value? How much value is he going to add if every kickoff is is fair cought? In two thousand and twenty three in the NFL, well, I know, and I think it was

back when the XFL brass took over here. I think it was one of the podcasts that Jim Monos did or whatever where they had talked about kind of scrapping kicking all together in the XFL and I know, I think Sam had talked about the show as well, and it was this balance of, well, no, we still want to you know, it's football, you still want to have kickers, but how can we do all the extra points and all that stuff. It's an interesting thing. I do think, like you

said, it takes away the punt their kick return here. I think this league might have to pivot to developing. You know, the thing with special teams is like a lot of the players are non premium position players, So like running back, linebacker, tight end, safety, you're you know, those positions don't matter as much in the eleven on eleven game as they do

in you know, as other positions like that. And so maybe maybe this league is like, okay, well we're really gonna have to showcase pass rushers, pass blockers, quarterbacks, receivers and pivot that way because that, you know, that's going to be what the NFL is gonna want out of these leagues in the future. Real quick, here, before we get out, who do you got on this Stallions here? I think Game of the Week on Fox at one o'clock against the Breakers. Who are you taken? Yeah?

So the Stallions are favored by two, Um, I make I make Birmingham more like favored by five, so I probably would lay the lay lay it there. The I think Birmingham. One of the one reason i'm um, you know, maybe a little bit off market here is I'm giving Birmingham home field advantage because they're playing at their home stadium even though technically they're a

road team here. Um, And I make home field advantage for Birmingham and the USFL about a point and a half because people do actually want to go and watch them here, So that that that would be the that would be my bet here terms here Stars smallers back here at Tom Benson. This you know, hopefully Stars kind of getting another get right game here. What do you make of this? Yeah? This is weird. This this open. I think at one in the favor of Philly, and that's moved towards Pittsburgh

now through zero doesn't really matter, but I make phill it. I make the wrong team favorite. I guess Philly. I make about a two and a half point favorite. So for the second straight week, I think there's opportunity betting against Pittsburgh. Yeah, I don't think the home field of Canton. I don't think it's overwhelming. I don't know. I think they need to revisit that in the off season. Near Gamblers show Boats. I make this about I make Memphis about two point dogs. So um, you know,

Houston has been pretty good. But I think Memphis getting three and a half at home where their home field advantage. I am making that right now about a point because people have showed up two route for the show Boats I'm gonna make I think plus three with Memphis is the right bat. And then we got here at Panthers Generals here back here that Canton. Yeah, the

Generals are seven point favorites. I think that's too much for any USFL game, especially one that's either going to be started by Kyle Laltta or or DeAndre Johnson. So I take Michigan plus the points. Yeah, that's a seven point favorite. That's crazy. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Now, Eric, any fundle thoughts to me. I appreciate your time today. No, this has been fun. I always love talking about the the the spring leagues with you. I can't wait for this CFL to start

in a few weeks. Uh uh, you know, I had a lot of fun last year following along and um, you know, we got some quarterback movement in that league too, which will be cool. Yeah, if you ever want to talk CFL on here, we'll do that. I had my preseason game on this week, very exciting, and we're ramping up.

We have lots of CFL coverage. The thing that I like about the CFL that they do much better than these leagues, and I don't understand why these leagues haven't done it is the CFL will play Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and sometimes Sunday, sometimes Monday. They spread the games out and make them you know, you get you get a touch point with the CFL like every day of the weekend, which to me is something that these these leagues have sorely missed. Well, I said, I'll tried that, and then it

was kind of such a failure this year. It almost like scares them off where they don't want to lean into that. It's like, oh, shoot, no one watched, Like we don't want to do that. Yeah, and maybe and maybe the CFL having their whole country as sort of their fan base might help them get like a down you know, they might have a fixed amount of watchers anyway, but yeah, and maybe I'm just a sick of maybe I want to watch all the games and not just you know,

a game one game on a Saturday or something. But to me, it's a missed opportunity and it's one thing I really like about the CFL. No, I get it, And I said, I think the touch point in having, you know, especially here USFL coming into the summer, people have stuff to do on Saturday, Sunday, like Thursday and either whatever. Hey,

I like that's a little more manageable than I could do that. So yeah, and then summer, no one likes baseball that much and basketball is almost over, and so maybe it's just about who they're competing with too. Yeah. Well, Eric was supersports really appreciate your time today. Thanks, Hey, thanks forming on. Well, I appreciate this. We had,

I think, on the playoff push last year, kind of late season. We had Josh Shepherdson on here with Fantasy pros talking USFL. We happen back today, Josh, how are you good? God? It's good. We're getting through, you know, we we've moved on now XFL. I've been enjoying CFL preseason this week. It's exciting. I mean USFL is fun.

It's like a totally different flare. And I don't know if you watch any of that they have, like the preseason game and there was a thunderstorm and a rain delay and like cow's are running like I'm kid about that, but you know it's really its own beast up there. But we're talking to USFL today, first and foremost, what do you make of the season here? We're past the midway point. I mean, this work gets thrown around a lot, but I mean when the shoe fits, it's parody. This year

in the USFL. Every time I think I have my thumb on the pulse of who really is looking like the cream of the crop, something comes up. I mean New Orleans has lost two games in a row after their four and no start, that that offense looked brilliant and they've hit the skids. I thought Memphis looked terrible through the first few weeks of the season, and they've rattled off three in a row. Houston seems to have found a group.

It's just the one area that there is no parody right now I feel comfortable saying, and I've joked about it a little bit on Twitter, but in all seriousness. The Self Division has just been leaps and bounds better than the North Division. But beyond that, it is tight and I don't feel like anybody is truly pulling away from the pack. And it's it's fun as

a fan. It is maddening as somebody who tries to cover the sport and make predictions for either sports betting or dfs, But overall, I'm enjoying it and it's it's definitely a different feel from twenty twenty two. Significantly, I would say it's a different feeling in what way in that Birmingham looked great last

year. They looked like a runaway club. New Jersey had just such a brilliant tandement quarterback with mister spring Football Luis Perez airing it out and then DeAndre Johnson complimenting them in the running game, and they just haven't found that that fluidity in the passing game of Kyle Auletta. And so the North Division and God the Stars, it's it's killed me. I fought with the continuity at quarterback and head coach and a lot of the skill position players that they would

hit the ground running it, and the offensive lines looked so bad. So I just different in the sense that there were a few teams that really looked sharp pretty quickly last year, and we could kind of get a feel for who was going to make a playoff push by this point in the season.

And at this point it is wide open. It's the parody thing is interesting, and I know that's come up a lot in Pat Raffino and I kind of had our our Monday recap show that you know, I get into a lot of the XFL too right, and whatever you say it's bad for the one league or good for the other vice versa. But you know, I

was told in the XFL it was a good thing. We had all these teams and the divisions were kind of fluid, and I know the arlington of it all, but you know, them making it to the championship game with the locy record. But people like that where it felt like the XFL oor USFL in twenty twenty two the last three weeks of the year, didn't you know, season didn't matter because Da da DA day. But now all I hear is can people completing the other way that the parody in the USFL is

a bad thing. So I don't like, you know what I mean? I kind of hear both sides, and what do you make of that? I think the parody is probably better. I mean, people like a dominant team, whether it's to root for it or to root against it. Having the villain or the super team is fun. But at the same time, I mean, you're keeping all eight fan bases engaged, and that's that's ultimately a good thing. You don't want any fan bases checked out, you know,

sixty percent of the way through the regular season. That's that that can't be good for the sport. And so I mean, yes, we had Arlington make the postseason and win the XFL Championship with a losing record, but the North and Self Division had playoff spots up for grabs going into the final week of the season. And last year, I mean, we were just hoping that the Stars and the Generals were gonna not roll the footballs out there and kneel it out, you know, joking of course, but treat it

as a walkthrough. They thankfully, they played a competitive game, but I mean, nobody knew what to expect last year, and this year it looks like these teams are going to have to play right down to the wire, and I think ultimately that's a better product, and especially this year without the one hub city, I think you really need to have the fan bases engaged

the fact that they're playing in four to front hubs at this point. You don't want any any hub having no teams competitive at this point because it would be just an awful look I think for the product. And I mean it's out of their control to an extent, but you still don't want to see that happen in terms of I agree, keeping the fan bases and that you

engaged. And that was what was so funny with all the XFL playoffs stuff was you know, the last two weeks or three weeks of the season wouldn't have mattered if you if it wasn't the way that it was with the division. So it was because of that that it came down to the last game of everything that really mattered between the ce Dragons and the Vipers. I mean, we were there for that. You're talking about the fan base and keeping

people engaged, it's almost like we haven't. It's almost like we talked so much last season about the attendance that like we don't talk about it this year because it's like, oh my God, we've done all this, but it's remarkably slow. And I don't want to say that, as you know, I get kind of whatever anyway, but it does feel like, you know, Birmingham hasn't showed that back this year. Memphis is really kind of m ia. Michigan, they're losing at home. That doesn't seem great. Canton

hasn't been good since Week one. To me, what do you make of the four different hubs. I mean, I hate to do the pitting Leaks against each other thing. At the end of the day, more football is better than less football. You and I are on the same page with that. But I do think having the actual home cities hosting their home teams was a great thing. I mean, the DC beer Snake got all the attention in the world. Seattle fan base was great. I mean, people showed

up because they had a team in their backyard. I think it's tough when you have two teams in Canton and either is an Ohio based team. It's just it's tough. And Birmingham, I think they might be a little bit worn out from having all of the games there last year. There's not that new fresh league feel to it. I would have thought that maybe they would

be a little bit more fired up because they're hosting the defending champion. But at the same time, ultimately I think it'll be better in the long term interests of the league if if they do away with the hubs and we eventually get the eight teams in home stadiums. But I don't know. I'm not a financial guy, I'm not in there their office to really know, but I guess just my general feeling from watching the games is there seem to be

more fan passion in the XFL at the stadiums. In terms of on Twitter, where we see all the people who are the diehards. There's definitely dug in diehards out both sides of people like you and I who enjoy both leagues for what they are, and I love to see that the TV. The TV viewership seems to still be doing at least enough. Um I don't know relative to last year, but but the fact that that it's not immediately dooming

gloom when when the viewership numbers come up, it's promising. But ultimately I think it would help if these teams had an actual home base as opposed to just just a hub. Last we'll get one more round on this and then we'll get to you know, football mechanics here. I get that, and you know, moving the hubs and everything. And it was last year, right, we're gonna go to Birmingham. We're gonna go. But like you said, I mean, you know, Canton taking Canton out of it is

It's not like Memphis is really showing up. It's not like and like you said, if if it's the burnout in Birmingham and we had the eight here last year, and I don't get that. I don't get the Birmingham drop off. I mean, I just they seem really passionate. They have the most Facebook groups from what I know about, you know, the Birmingham fans

and all that. But I just I don't know if we if if you had everyone can you know, everyone that was going to go to a game that live inner around Birmingham and now we're kind of just spreading that out across I don't know, because it's not like I said, it's not as if Memphis or Michigan they're kind of blowing the doors off the venues right now. And that's true, and that's surprising to me, especially with Memphis with the

relocation from Tampa. I mean, I would have expected there to be a little bit more passion and almost like that recapturing what they had in Birmingham last year, because it's just a new franchise in something new. But perhaps the slow start contributed to it. Maybe things will pick up as they're winning. I'm not sure. I mean, everybody loves rooting for a winner, so hopefully that that'll drom up a little bit of extra extra attendance. But we'll

see. And maybe there's a little bit of football fatigue just in the general general spring football public right now, because I mean we didn't have the XFL leading into the USFL, so I don't know, but but yeah, it is a little disappointing to see that even with the four hubs and the actual host teams in those hubs not drawn quite as well as I would have expected. Speaking of the show, but it's Todd Haley a good coach, are we? I mean, we lived through this last year, we came back.

I see he's really good at twerkey in the locker room, right, I think I saw the videos of that. But I mean it's not Haley a good coach. He is a maddening coach. I don't I can't put my finger on it. I mean, I don't know exactly what got under his skin after that Houston loss. It was bizarre. I've never seen a coach quite behave like that after a loss. But he's always kind of had

a little bit of a poor sport in him. I feel like, and I don't know, I'm not the biggest Todd Haley fan, but I mean he's got them on a winning streak and they have not gotten the greatest quarterback play. So I will give credit where it's due. I mean he's pulling, pulling some strings and getting some w so it's it's hard to argue with that. And we look here, I'll pull up. We look here in the South. You taught you you know, I'm talking about the definition of

parody. Here four and two across the board, show boats is I mean, Showboats looked like they were out to water, right, come back here and they have five hundred breakers collapse. I don't know if mccon Bethel Thompson has the mart cast curse. He came on when they were undefeated on our show, and it's not one the game sense, what do you make of the Breakers kind of collapse here against the Stars, who I don't think much won the game last week more just kind of outlasted New Orleans. Yeah,

that was that was. That's two bizarre games, two bizarre wins in a row for for the Stars. I mean, I've plucked it as a fan, but I went in expecting them to get beaten up pretty good by the Breakers. I mean they eked out the win the week before with eight field goals and afforded nothing turnover disparity. I was just like, what is going on? And it was more bizarro football this week. But um, I mean, I think part of it's that we've got John d. Filippo as

the first time head coach. There's a lot on his I think he came out really hot because the offense was great, and that's his side of the football, I think. And I mean the defense has played relatively well even in the last two losses. It's not like they're they're giving up thirty points a game to their opponents. But at the end of the day, I do still think that they had the offensive pieces. I mean, West Hills is such a monster and I love Sage sarat Jonathan Adams is such a good

vertical player. I really thought the return of Johnny Dixon last week was going to be what they needed to kind of unlock that offense again. But I think they have the right pieces to get back on track. If the Stallions get healthier. It's hard to bet against them right now. And I mean Mark Thompson's an absolute monster for the Gamblers, but I still have some questions

about the quarterback play there. So ultimately, I still think the Breakers are going to be in it until the end, and if I were to handicap the division right now, I still think they will win the South, but I don't say that with any conviction at this point. Well that's the thing here. I mean, it feels like the Stallions haven't really had a lot go right for them this season at all, but here they are four and two. You know, it's I gave him a piece separatesist where the Breakers

totally the other way. It came in so hot and McLeod and you know, we had talked with CFL. People know he's going to come in and just run circles around everyone. I don't know if you know we talked on Monday. Is he getting tired and coming from the CFL and playing here and injuries and kind of all that. Any other thoughts kind of on either the Birmingham up swing here or the Breakers and then we can hit the North a little bit. Um. I mean, I like what I've seen from mcclaude

Bethel Thompson. I mean even last week in the loss, it wasn't like he was making just dreadful decisions or anything that I think is a true long term problem. I think your fatigue thing could could be, you know, potentially an issue. But I mean looking at the quarterbacks in that division, I do think that. I mean, Alex McGoo is settled into a real nice groove and the running ability that he brings to the table is just such

a different dynamic than what mclod Bethel Thompson brings for the Breakers. But at the same time, and C. J. Marrabel is coming off of a very good game. I don't want to diminish that, but I think the missing piece of both Scarborough they had to adjust to a little bit. I mean, he's he would be right in the discussion with the Mark Thompson and the West Hills of the South Division as just the Belkow who can you can run your offense through And I think it took them a little bit to find

their footing there. But I would say that the Stallions are probably I mean, are certainly on the upswing, but I think that the Breakers can match them offensively. And I just think I do still think that they are the top two teams in the division, with Houston just nipping at their heels.

But that's really the difference between um the quarterbacks of those those teams. I just have less faith in Kenji Bahar so well, that's the thing is I mean Kenji either we saw him getting banged up a little bit, you know, Mark tom Sin. It really does kind of feel like a cheat code right now right where I mean God got from me with Gamblers to be without that, I mean, do they it feels like they're in second here,

just kind of by default. I mean, do you do you see the Gamblers challenge you We had the weird I don't know if you track this week. We had the weird like USFL playoffs and it looked like they were changing the playoffs scenarios and then they weren't, and I you know, reached out to the league and kind of got I was like, what is what is happening here? But you know, keeping the same you know, divisions one seed playing that two seed. I mean, I don't see a world where

the Gamblers stay at the number two. Or do you agree or disagree? Um? I mean Bart obviously Bart and injury, which is what I think the default is. I would say they're probably the third place finisher in the division. And then we're looking at the Breakers and Stallions, And I mean, even though we talked about Memphis reeling off three in a row, and it's impressive that they are at a debt even for a point differential since they

got p forty two to two and by the Stallions. But ultim I would say you can tier the South with the Breakers and Stallions in Tier one, the Gamblars by themselves in Tier two, and Memphis just to tick behind the poor time Hailey, they're easier to come out at you on the sidelines here uh here. The other way with this, Stars were my team last year, you know, obviously made into the championship game. Case Cooks has been on the show. They've had two wins now without defensive touchdowns at all.

See, it was very weird. I didn't know Bart Andrews is like tired if we're we've kind of given up on this. It feels weird here at week six going into seven. What do you make of the Stars? Man? Uh? I guess the expression a win is a win really is apt for them. I mean, they have just got it out two wins. I will say the thing that I'm most encouraged about is that the defense has

played significantly better the last two weeks. I expected West Hills to absolutely run wild against that run defense, but I mean they weren't exactly great against the Generals running game. Darius Victor kind of just coughed up the ball three times into their lap. And but at the same time, I don't see quarterback play at and offensive consistency from the General's Molars or Panthers to challenge the Stars if they find even a modicum of the same footing they had last year.

And I think even though they haven't scored offensive touchdowns the last two weeks, last week was the closest I've seen them resemble the twenty twenty two version of the Stars they had. Coburn looked efficient and fast and played it just a different level than he's played most of this season and the fact that they were

able to really generate a running game last week. Bart Andrews is always going to lean heavily into the past, and I think that that's ultimately I mean, it was an effective strategy last year, but they've needed the offensive line

to play better, and I think they did play better last week. My God, that Keith Cook interception along the sideline is one of the dumbest play as I've ever seen on a football field in my entire life, and I'm not embellishing it at all, But otherwise, I mean, I feel like he did a good job of circumventing pressure, and I thought the offensive line did some very good things last week. That has me a little bit more encouraged than I would have if you told me that they won two games without

scoring an offensive touchdown, I wouldn't probably have expected to feel encouraged. But after the last two weeks and seeing them move the ball last week, I think that they have something cooking a little bit there. It feels the stars

feel like. And I don't know if you're a Survivor fan, I watched the first four of these seasons of Survivor followed off after all of that, But it feels like the Stars are kind of like when they would do like heroes versus villains and they would bring back Okay, we're going to bring back all the All Stars. We're going to bring back Case cook Is. But you know, we had Kobe donald Son back in season two, but now he was like fat Colby and he doesn't really like he's a little bit older

and he's a little more banged up and he can't really compete. Like it feels the Stars that way, like we're bringing everybody back, but nobody feels like they were the first time around. It feels like they're either slower or more tired, or beat up or injured. They're just not quite as good. Does that make sense? Yeah? I mean, and maybe there was a little bit of resting on their laurels coming into the season, especially since

they did have a successful Week one against Memphis. I mean, the offense looked great in Week one, and I wonder if maybe they were kind of buying into their own hype to an extent and just not putting their best foot forward. And they've kind of needed that wake up call the last few weeks because I mean, a paper you're swapping out in a somewhat indirect sense, Buck Howard for Corey Coleman is just a monster field stretcher, and Pearl Wells

has done a pretty good job stepping in for Buck this year. So I don't know. I thought this was going to be a juggernaut offense with especially in the backfield. I think that was an underrated aspect coming into I mean, Matt Colburn everybody knew, looked good, but Dexter Williams looked good down the stretching. It's just a grinding, sustaining back to as a let's change

of pace to to what Colburn was doing as an explosive runner. So I do wonder if maybe they kind of uh bought into what they were doing last year and kind of didn't bring forth the best effort so far this year, and now it's kind of coming back together. I think this weekend will be a true test. I mean, again against Pittsburgh. I mean, you're facing a stout defense that if you don't bring your a game, you're going to struggle. So I think this will be a really telling week for for

what they are the rest of the season. One of my favorite things in the last game with the stars, was watching Case and Barn kind of on the sidelines, like watching the replace like I was out of bounds. Like that does again, it's kind of like another Survivor reference when we had an RS Yellow at Terry Deeds to call the call the wambulance back in I think it was Guanama. What season was that? But you know, I like he's like I was out of bad like you were. But I do I

do feel like the I can't remember the individual that got the interception. I do feel his foot was on the line. I don't know if we got I know we corroberated that Case was in bound, so we didn't feel like that toe was on the line of the New Orleans which was quite the interception celebration where they had done like the ten minute regear. I think they're still

going there. I think there's still a cheer in the end. I enjoyed the broadcast making note of that being the longest interception celebration they've ever seen. I mean, Joel clad is just so good. I can't say enough good things about about him on the broadcast, and he I believe, if I remember correctly, he even chuckled a little bit watching the replay and hearing Case sayd to Bart, my foot was out. He's like, no, buddy, your foot was not out at all. And I was kind of chuckling

myself frustrated. But all you can do is laugh at something like that.

And I'm glad you brought up the sideline interaction because circling back to the cellth momentarily, I thought for sure j Sternberger was going to find himself on the pine after getting chewed out for not following an assignment last week, and then to see him involved again, I think they'll speak to um just the tight ship that they run for Birmingham. But yeah, I mean, the best, my probably favorite thing about the USFL, and I know we're getting in

going back to a little bit earlier discussion, it's just the access. I mean, the access in these spring leaks is just phenomenal. I wish us the Bells weird in terms of the things that they poked fun at, right, like we're okay with like blob he did a cartwheel and like the head fell out. Okay, We're like, we're okay with that. I wish they were a little bit more, you know, we celebrated the the you know, the the Pittsburgh the was it the Showboat's return kick right on the

malors right, Okay, we celebrated that August. I would have loved to have seen like longest interception celebration, like official, like official, this is a you know, and just poke a little bit of fun at that, Like I think that's okay where they they'll joke with Blob and Dave the Wave and then you know, you have yelling at who they had the guy yelling at Blob like you're not even the real mascot. You don't even talk like I like all that, But I wish they play. But see, like

they're real football, so they can't. They can't joke about the football. They can joke about it, but we don't, like we play really real football, but we have fun with everything else. Yeah, And I mean they poked fun at Alex McGoo in the wall incident, and I enjoyed the

levity there. I mean, have some fun with it with this kind of access, like and I mean, god, we're still going back to the Darius Victor Thick five safe wives, Like I am enjoying the more human side of it, and I agree, I definitely think even the football aspects of that poked some fun at the celebrations. I mean, I mean this is supposed to be the fun. These are supposed to be fun leagues for these guys to showcase not only themselves but as players but as people, so have

some fun with it. I agree with you, I've said both. I think I think the Exit Fellow carries itself far too seriously, sometimes just obviously knowing their past and everything else. I think the USFL is in that as well. And I think it's just like, ah, like we're Fox Sports, Like we don't last question here. We'll do rapid fire matchups before we get out of here. Mallers historically worst team now in spring football history.

I mean, we had debates last year against the Guardians. They looked like they were on the rise, and now they've fallen back down to earth. What do you make of the Mallars coming into this year. I definitely would have said the Mallars were the worst team. The twenty twenty two Mallars were worthy worst team in spring football that I've ever seen. But their defense is it's too stout for me to put them behind the Guardians at this point.

I would say their defense is the best unit between both teams. The offense has been laughably bad, But I mean you could say the same thing about the Guardians defense. They weren't stopping a cold in the XFL. And I mean the thing that killed me with the Guardians was, I believe it was maybe week six or seven, they talked about trill Buckley running two days and I just shook my head. It's just like, what are we even doing

at this point? It was It was a tough watch and it just makes it all the more mind boggling that they didn't finish one tena, that they managed to spring an upset against the Defenders. But ultimately I would say the Mallars have crept just past the Guardians. But that's about as far as I can as I can go with them right now. Now, I think it's a debate. It's a tailors all this time. Here which one on that? So here we go? We got breakers? They excuse me, we

have stallions breakers here coming up back in Birmingham. What do you make about this? One? O'clocks? Either there? I think this is the game of the week. We're going to start off with the arguably the two best teams in the USFL squaring off. The Stallions had their number last year. The Breakers played phenomenal in the first meeting. I think that the Stallions are

probably going to get the better of the Breakers right now. I think that they're still kind of going through adjusting after two awful weeks offensively, whereas McGoo is Alex McGoo has just been locked in, and I think I think that's going to be the difference right now. Like we said, the Stallions are ascending and the Breakers are kind of hitting the skids at this point. But

at this point, nothing would shock me. If West Hills goes out and has a dominant game and puts them on its back, Sage Sarat keeps moving the sticks and mclaude Bethel tops and just flips the switch, I wouldn't be shocked. Yeah, I don't know if Laca just needs to kind of ride himself here. It just feels I felt bad. There was a whole CFL contingent that came down to watch him play at Michigan last week and just you know, kind of horrendous game there. From the Breaker's point of view,

coming into the stars here, I guess ascending. I don't if you don't like but here, Mallers, what do you make about this? See? I think the Starts are gonna keep the momentum up this week. I really think they found something in the running game last week. The Mallars aren't the easiest team to run against, but if they can just keep themselves to second and third and manageable, I think they can do enough on offense because the

Mallards are just struggling mightily. I really thought that they had found something on offense with the running game and some mobility at quarterback, but then they just posted a bagel last week, and the bar is just they're putting too much on the defense is played with the offense just now their weight. I do think that the Stars have enough balance to squeak out to win this week, and I mean put some distance between themselves and the bottom of the division.

And I think that's got to be Bart's message this week to the club, is that we can really put ourselves in a great position to make the postseason. Would win this week. Do you think Bart should kind of let his hair go gray? Do you think the hair that do you think the hair I don't think the hair that is working for anymore is no. I think the Gray with the thinning on top, I think everything. I think the Grays it needs to come. Yeah, he's a guy. This might be

a scary one. I think you tell me which the scarier scary terry. Here. We got the Gamblers at Showbutz and then the Panthers at Generals. This could be a trip up spot for the Gamblers. I mean, I have more faith in Mark Thompson carrying Houston's offense than Memphis putting together a solid offensive attack this week. But I mean Memphis just keeps greeping together wins. I mean you could say the same thing about Houston. I thought they played

a more well balanced game. I have a little bit more faith in Houston ultimately, but that game I don't have any conviction in picking at this point. This could be the scariest weekend here, you know. I know the ratings were down a little bit this week with the XFL not being on. I mean, we have the one Fox game that's going to be the best game. Like you said on the kind of Fox proper, I think this FS one. I'm to be all right. I think there's interest. I

think the Stars still kind of carry that Cacher. But this to me, the USA FS one of the gamblers, showboats. Panthers generals just I don't know about that. We haven't talked a ton Panthers obviously, you know, winless at home here. Do you think they bounced back now that they're on the road back in though Canton, I wish I had more faith in the quarterback room. I mean, Carson strong and injured reserve leaves it all on.

Joshua's played essentially right now, but it's not as if New Jersey's getting stellar quarterback play right now. I was surprised to see Kyle I Will allow to play the entire game last week, especially when they went to the sideline and DeAndre Johnson, so that the game plan was for him to get in.

So it wasn't as if there was an injury keeping him out, because I know the broadcast booth did speculate a little bit that he was banged up in the previous game and wondered if maybe that was why he wasn't on the field, and perhaps he was instructed to just kind of go with the narrative that he would play. But I mean, he was suited up and he looked like he could have gone in and when allow a lot of struggle, I thought for sure they would put Johnson into provide a spark. Maybe they

do this week. Maybe they lean I mean Mike Radley loves to lean on his backs in the running game. It seems like a good week to do it. With the Panthers struggling to score, just win a low scoring affair. I would take the Generals in this one, which it's it's funny. I just think if you put DeAndre Johnson on the Panthers with that combination of Reggie Corpin and Stevie Scott, they would just have such a more explosive and

dynamic offense for what they'd like to do. That lack of quarterback mobility, like true game changing mobility, I think hurts them a little bit, especially since they're just not enough out of their past catching corps. Trey Quinn has flashed this year. He had a great game last week, and but ultimately I have more faith in Mike Riley and the General's gutting it out this week. But that could be a very ugly, ugly game. Yeah, let's see. I'm curious how this week works. In Week seven, Josh,

anything else from you. Where can people find your work. I really appreciate your time, thanks for having me on. They can find my work at Fantasy Pros and Betting Pros. I write up a usfl dfspiece every week for Fantasy Pros and I offer some betting insights, which has been kind of ice cold lately. But at Betting Pros and I give you the the thought process behind every bet so you can make your own informed decision whether whether you agree

with my logic or not. But I like to show how the sausage is made and kind of lead you to water instead of forcing you to drink at st I like that, Josh, I appreciate it. Tremendous resources here, Thank you so much. Thanks. Well, there we go, loaded show.

Like I said, you know, I thought John came across, like I said, very well today, I think I think it's the same thing. Like I come on here and do the show. I enjoy kind of doing shows outside of this and kind of being able to talk more long form that way, like with my mom, John Lewis's podcast or anything like that. So I appreciate that. I thought John, that was a great conversation.

Really appreciate Greg making time late at night coming on to do that, and then obviously Ryan Valentine everyone over at the Elks for setting up trade Forward, going to be looking to get more into the CFL here. We have lots of team previews next week coming in for the CFL season, and then I teased it on the live stream on Monday, but we're going to have a special CFL kickoff pregame show live before that game here on June eighth.

Is that June eighth, And then I'm going to have a special somewhat cool project. I still need to talk with Anne worry about this, but Andy, I have a cool project. We're gonna work forward to here a week after next so should be good. But lots of CFL team previews next week. Still working on some other guests. I hope you guys enjoyed. Thanks everyone who contributed this week, taking time to come on the program, set things up, and obviously all of you for listening. I hope you have

a great weekend. Take care of