In medical school, they actually tell you, like half the stuff we're teaching now is wrong. We just don't know which happen it is. So I mean that's built in you already kind of accept that. We don't have a lot of data on people just consuming me. We have a few studies out there, but there's been i mean, gosh, almost no evidence it suggests anyone's developing any significant vitument deficiencies.
And Harvard study that came out in twenty twenty one they specifically looked at that they didn't find any evidence of nutrient deficiencies.
You know, I often say that everything you've learned is wrong, and when it comes to the world of well, almost everything. That's why I say almost everything that is wrong. Now we typically talk about finance and what you've learned about money, but of course what you've learned about relationships and even your health is wrong. I'm sitting down with doctor Sean Baker. He's a multi sport, world record setting athlete, physician and
author of The Carnivore Diety. You're opening clinics helping people. There's obviously the weight loss industry is massive. There's a lot of money there, so it doesn't seem like it's just about the money.
I think there's just much more profit in keeping people relatively sick, and then this doing this sort of what we call disease management.
Maybe it was sort of having this one foot in, one foot out where I do eat all that fat, but I'm also eating the garbage, and so then maybe combined it's bad.
If you get leaner and leaner, the cholesterol goes up. If you're obese, your cholesterol will go down. And so the question is is that actually harmful? I'd say the real answer is, Sehn, thanks for joining me. Hey, Mark, appreciate you having me on.
Sorry to make you weight. We were waiting for a president Trump today.
We'll cut on some slack.
He held us up a little bit. We'll cut that guy some slack. What are the world records setting?
Oh yeah, so, I mean I had world records in powerlifting, so I was. I was a drug free, pretty decent deadlifter. I lifted three hundred and fifty kilos seven and seventy two pounds. You know, quite a few years ago, when I was a little younger, I did the Highland Games, which is kind of an interesting sports. The Scottish games where you put on a kilt and you throw heavy things,
really big telephone polls, cabers, and various other events. I won a world championship and set a world record, and that then I went on to competitive rowing, you know, uh, and set I think six or seven American records and these are age group records and several world records, and in fact fact, I'll probably break some more of them in the next couple of weeks training for that. Yeah.
Good Now, As I said, I often say on my videos, everything you've learned is wrong. My sister was an er doctor, and I remember when she got out of medical school. She came home and, you know, forget all your vitamins, forget all that, just take the antibiotics, and she was just like in this like tunnel. A couple of years ago, she was forced to leave California because she didn't want to go along with the program in California. She went to a functional medicine clinic in Houston, and like, wow,
learn for the first time you can heal people. And I realized sort of in the world of physicians as well, like probably a lot of what you learned was wrong and in order for you to learn the other way. You sort of maybe have to go unl learning that and learn some new stuff. I'm curious sort of like how you went from that path from being an MD, Like what was that wake up moment that caused you go figure that.
Yeah, you know, in medical school they actually tell you like half the stuff we're teaching now is wrong. We just don't know which half it is. So I mean that's built in you already kind of accept that, but
then you know, you kind of go along. And really the moment for me was was that showed me that the real problems we have with the healthcare system was the fact that we had a situation and you know, my background is orthopedic surgery, so I would do knee replacements and hip replacements, fixed broken bones and whatnot, and we were as a community, you know, struggling with the fact that we had so many obese patients and they
were having greater complication rates after surgeries, particularly after knee replacements, and so we kind of as a collective community said, hey, we got to get these people to lose weight prior to doing the surgery, and they didn't really give you a framework on how to do that. Some of them got sent to bariatric surgeons for gas to bypass.
Some of them.
You know, we you know, whatever, diet exercise, eat more, you know, eat less, move more type of stuff. And I just at that time it happened to be that I was doing a very low carb diet and kithogenic dit at the time, and so I said, this was twenty twelve, something like twelve, twenty thirteen, and at that point I said, well, I'm gonna try to some of my patients. And you know, not all the patients would
do it. In fact, probably maybe twenty percent would actually do it, but a significant significant percentage of ones that would actually go on a diet and legitimately do it would very often report to me that their their knee pain was gone, which I thought was really interesting because they were the reason I was seeing it was for a knee replace because they were in horrible knee pain. So I started canceling surgeries, and then I thought it was pretty cool that that was happening. I brought this
to the sort of the hospital administration. I said, hey, guys, I'd like to spend you know, half day week kind of doing some lifestyle diet counseling and I was flat out told basically, no, you can't do that, and that that was my wake up call that wait a minute, this is not about what's best for the patients, what's best for the bottom line, which you don't businesses or what you know, they do what they need to do
to make money. But it made me realize that what I learned about how to treat disease and take care of patients in medical school was maybe not the most effective way or maybe not the best way, and so I sort of went down this rabbit hole of nutrition and now, guys, for the last us eight or nine years now, I've been sort of seeing the stuff evolve.
And I mean every day I see people that whether it's joint pain or mental health disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, autoimmune diseases, we're just putting them in a remission left and right. And that's what sort of prompted me to found a company called Rivero that you know, we're licensed in all fifty states and we have physicians across the nation that take people in deal with the nutrition in their lifestyle, get them off madge, and then we have
all the support that goes with it. That's required because the healthcare system, you don't have a lot of support. If you want to make a life lifestyle intervention. If I want to do surgery in somebody, I've got a multimillion dollar operating room, I've got radiology suites, I've got you know labs, I've got physical therapy. I've got you know everything. I need millions and millions of dollars of resource.
But if I say, hey, let's work on this person's lifestyle, sleep, exercise, nutrition, so on and so forth, you got zero nothing.
So now the obvious thing seems that because there's no money in that. So you mentioned earlier, well, we have a business, we want to do surgery, So the obvious thing seems to be the money. However, you're opening clinics helping people. There's obviously the weight loss industry is massive. There's a lot of money there. So it doesn't seem like it's just about the money. I mean, why do you think there's just not support, Because there's obviously weight
loss support, right, Jenny Craig or whatever. Right, there's weight watchers, there's plenty of that, but there's not for you know, more traditional or type of health.
Yeah, So I mean there is money in that. And I think there's there's cost savings. Certainly, if you're a company in thirty percent of your expenses are going to play for your pay for employees, medical benefits. I mean saving that is actually you know, a net you know, profit to you. I think there's just much more profit in keeping people relatively sick. And then this doing this
sort of what we call disease management. Now, disease management was a term that came into vogue maybe twenty years ago. I remember when I started medicine, I hadn't heard the term disease management. Then they started talking disease men, what is disease management? Oh, that means we're just going to keep these people in a state of illness and manage their symptom ya medication. And that's really the business model
that's gone forward. It's very profitable, you know. I mean Goldman Sachs a few year Agoes a few years ago was asked the question is it profitable to cure disease? And resultingly they said, no, it's not. It doesn't make sense business wise. And so, you know, I think that's the problem that we have in general, is we have a sick population, which to anyone that's been outside can
see that. I mean, anybody's been on the earth for longer than twenty or thirty years now sees that we've got just more and more sick, depressed, you know, dependent population.
Yeah. Now, in the last probably two years, I have two good friends of mine that were both really big, have gone through gastric bypass. Both lost a ton of weight, like an enormous amount of weight. One of them is starting to put the weight back on. They're the ones doing pretty good. However, when I look at what they're eating afterwards, like they're still eating bags of chips and
they're still drinking sodas. So even in a type of deal where they've gotten the money, they've done the done the surgery, you would think they would at least still want them to maintain what they've gave them. Otherwise maybe they're a failure.
Well, they don't give them the tools to do that's a problem. I mean for some people it's really challenging. I mean they literally have to change the relationship with food. And when anyone comes to me and talks about weight loss, I said, don't worry about that right now, We've got to fix your food addiction or whatever is causing you to continue to do this, because you can. Anybody can lose weight on any diet for a short period of time.
It's what happens Coli restrictions. Of course, it works for a while until you can't do it anymore. And so what this sort of option does is it provides people not only a sense of society, but actual nursement because there are a lot of obese people out there that are at although they're obese, they're similar at the same time, they are malnourished because they just don't have the proper nutrition.
If you don't start feeding yourselves appropriately, then it's so easy to constantly be hungry and constantly fall prey to the food industry, which is another industry that has very clearly designed food to be addictive as possible, you know,
very profitable, very addictive. I mean, I've talked of food chemist that have worked for these companies and they are, you know, at the end of their career they feel guilty about the fact that they their job literally was to addict people to these foods and they've clearly done that successfully.
Yeah, you know, would you say that, do you think it's accurate? To say that all diets, like diet plans that you would go on Cali restriction diets, are really about eating fake food. And if all you ate was real food, you wouldn't have to go on those diaplans.
Well, you know, if we think about what food was available to the average human not not that long ago, one hundred hundred fifty years ago, and we didn't have these these obesity epidemics. You know, we don't have the ten thousand items that we have in the in the grocery store today. We don't have you know, all of the ingredients we're not even sure why. I mean, they're there to keep it on the shelf life and to
make people eat them more. So I think if most people would give up that stuff, we would see significant benefits. You know, it's interesting. There's a guy from Tufts University,
Darius Mosafarian, who some people remember. He published a study showing that lucky Charms was arguably better than beef, which is a nons right, right, But one of the things he hasn't pointed out, which I think is interesting, is that from about nineteen sixty to nineteteen nineties two thousand eight, we ate significantly more calorie and that seems to explain the epidemic of obesity. But since that time, our color consumption really hasn't increased so much, but we still are
getting fatter and fatter as a nation. And why is that. Well, part of it has to do with the increasingly higher percentage of ultra processing that occurs, and so when that food is turned into powder, it's just absorbed in a very different way than what we're designed for. And so when you turn all this food into powder, it's absorbed
much more quickly. And normally there's something called our microbiome, a little bacteria that live in our gut, that would consume some of that, but if it's already powder, it gets absorbed very rapidly, very high up in our digestive track, before those things even have a chance to act on it. So even though we're eating the same number of calories, we're actually absorbing more calories and that goes to the quality of the food. So if you're eating steak and eggs,
that's pretty old fashioned food. I mean, that's been around since human beings have around, basically, and it's it's absorbed and digested and metabolized in a way that's consistent of how we're designed or how we evolve, or however you want to come in phrase that.
Yeah, yeah, And if you're just eating steak and eggs, then you feel so satiated, then you get full faster, and it's very hard to over eat. We were talking earlier and I was saying that, right lately, I've just been eating just meat and I'm having problems gettingenough calories.
That that is an issue. That's one of the problems I say with this is people often end up under eating. And you know, I mean, that's a good problem for to have for some people, but it can be a problem for other people that they that they don't eat enough and then they have problems with fatigue and some other issues that occur. So it does take some getting used to for sure.
Now I've been into weightlifting, bodybuilding, health supplements, whatever for a good majority of my life now at this point, and I thought I had heard of everything and every diet. And it was at a bitcoin meeting, a conference probably twenty nineteen. It was a safety and he told me about the carnivore diet and I was like, what, like that makes no sense, And I thought I knew a lot about diet, like, I've never heard of that. Don't we need vegetables? You know, that's probably the most common
thing I'd hear. Or number two would be, you know, now red meat has been sort of vilified. So I guess let's address those two things talking about on the carnivore diet. Why has red meat been vilified? And maybe why is it actually not such a bad game for Yeah, so I mean, can it be in the wrong consumption?
Yeah, The vilification of red meat goes back at least one hundred years. I mean, if we look at the creation of the American Dietetics Association, which was founded back in nineteen seventeen by a gal by the name of Lenna Cooper. She was a Seventh Day Adventist, very much aligned with our philosophy that red meat was driving sinfulness, lust, masturbation, all the bad things were associated with that. So she very you know, pointly was in favor of more of
a vegetarian diet. So that was a very foundation of nutrition science in this country and thus most of the Western world. And you know, they have gone on the Seventh Day Adventist to populate significant percentage is of the higher crey of the nutrition sciences, and so the studies have always kind of started with that bias. And now, you know, what we see clearly is when you consume meat, milk, eggs, dairy and things like that, like you mentioned, you're very satiated,
you don't consume those other foods. And so by vilifying those things, now there's a whole there's a gap in your your hunger level. So what do you fill it with? Well, we typically fill it with ultra processed foods. I mean, that's just clearly what happens. You can say, oh, you're gonna everyody's gonna eat beans and celery. That doesn't that's not what actually happens. We know study after study has shown that the more plant based you go, the more
you tend to eat these ultra process foods. And the companies that produce us know that. They clearly know that. So if they continue to vilify meat, people eat less of it. What do they replace it with, Well, they replace it with this cheap, ultra process highly profitable foods.
And so that's part of it. I mean, the way the science is done, like you know, every single and this is most of nutrition, Most of nutrition depends on these nutritional demiologic studies where they you know, they'll they'll look at a you know, one hundred thousand people, they'll send out a food frequency questionnaire, ask them, you know, how much red meat did gat? How much chicken, and
how much eggs? How much fruit and vegetables. And first of all, it is horribly horribly plagued by recall bias. You don't remember. I can't if I asked you what you ate five for the last five years, how many servings of eggs you ate? You, you wouldn't be able to accurately did so, first of all, we have very very bad information. But then the way they define red meat, well, you know, I literally just posted about this two days ago.
Every almost every food frequency question the way they define beef in particular, beef is defined as steaks, you know, roast hamburgers, lasagna, pizza, it's how you know, those things are considered to be beef. And wait a minute, it's a pizza. Yeah, but it's got well, it doesn't matter, it's still considerable. So we have those horrible confounders in there, and so we don't have data, at least, you know, large scale data on people that aren't eating all the garbage,
just eating the meat. Now we're seeing anecdotally by the thousands and thousands, and there are some studies in progress right now which I'm helping to facilitate that are showing that.
And what we're seeing is if you're eating you know, beef and eggs and you're not eating all the garbage, you know, you're not eating all the process or fine carbohydrates with that, the health outcomes are very very much different than what we see when you're eating the standard American western you know McDonald's Happy Meal died, Yeah, which is what they can flate you know, red meat to. Yeah.
That's one thing that I was thinking, because you know, I eat the rabbi with the butter on it, the eggs fat. Yeah, and I'm losing weight right, but you know a lot of people say, well, you know there's heart disease or the cholesterol, and I was thinking, So helped me with this. Maybe it was sort of having this one foot in, one foot out where I do eat all that fat, but I'm also eating the garbage and so then maybe combined it's bad.
Yeah. I mean I think the I think most people, even the most sort of pro you know, low lower cholesterol cardioloist will agree that heart disease is multifactoral. There are a lot of things that do that, and we now know that there are a lot of people with very high cholesterol that never develop heart disease. You know, the counter that whether they're smokers that never get cancer. Okay,
that's fair enough. But the reality is is that you know, there are other things going on metabolically, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, pre diabetes, and some resistance, chronic inflammation, hypertension, all those things which meat based that often completely gets what gets rid of. I mean, I see people that are blood pressure normalized, their diabetes goes away, their obeseity goes away pretty consistently, and so the question is, well, what happens
if your cholesterol still goes up? And the thought is, what's because all the saturated fatuating. Well, it turns out, in fact, January of this year, Adrian Sodamota, who's a brilliant Oxford PhD T, just died. A meta analysis forty one randomized controlled trials looking at what is the main determined of whether your cholesterol goes up or not on a on a low carb diet and the number one factor will is how lean you are. If you get leaner and leaner, your cholesterol goes up. If you're obese,
your cholesterol will go down. And so the question is you know there's something to go to lipid energy model, which describes that as we are less full of energy, Like if I've got a bunch of stored energy on my body, I can use that. If I have low stored energy on my body, low body fat, little liver glycogen, then in order to feed the cells in my body, the liver has to dump more flux of fat into the blitzroom. So that's why you're picking us up. Now.
The question is is that actually harmful? I'd say the real answer is we don't know for sure. However, there are studies out there right now that on one that Matt Bootoff is doing at UCLA clearly has shown that they took up cohort of one hundred people with I mean ridiculously high LDL choluster. We're talking about LDL cholesterol
three hundred four hundred. LDL is the quote unquote considered the bad cholesterol so super high like the normal that they want want you to keep it under is like under one hundred and forty some people want that under a hundred some people with diabetes and under seventy five. These people are walking around with LDL cholesterols in excess
of five hundred for years and years and years. And they did high level, very precise ct and giography on these people and what they found was compared to an age match you know, health match group, they actually had less heart disease than people that didn't have high oldel cholesterol. So it's kind of interesting. You're seeing, we're starting to
see where the nuance is. And so while I can't sit there and say we should ignore LDL cholesterol, I would say there are other things that impact that that may mitigate or exascer you know, or increase the likeli of having a negative outcome. And I think we're gonna ge We're gonna get more native's coming out here very very shortly.
I think I heard you talk about this on Joe Rogan, I think it was, and you were talking about like the cookie test or the oreo test or something right right, right right, change the amount of cholesterol that was being dumped into your blood strength something like that. So there's also a health risk of having two low cholesterol, right, So does that lower your testosterone levels prevents your skin from converbionce?
Yeah, yeah, I mean cholesterol. I mean cholesterol is a scaffolding from which all your sex hormones are built on. Vitamin D is built on we know at least associationally, and again there's all the caveats about associational data not necessarily being causal, but we know people with very low cholesterol more likely to have suicide, more likely to be violent, more likely to be depressed, questionably, more likely to have dementia,
you know, all cause mortality. If we look at those tables, that's clearly seen, like we see study after study, if you have very low cholesterol, you're more likely to die. Now the caveat to that as many people say, well, that's reverse causality. That is to say that it's not that your cholesterol is low that you got cancers. You got cancer. That's why your cholesterol as well. Because remember cholesterol, well maybe you don't know this, but cholesterol actually participates
in our immune system. It's necessary for immune function. So when it's too low, potentially you know, and we do. We see people with low cholesterol have worse outcomes. When it comes to infectious disease, you get an infection, you get septic in the hospital. If you got low cholesterol going in, you're like less likely to survive that. So
I mean it's there is a risk for that. Now, they will use this sort of thing called by a beta lipoproteinemia, which is a genetic condition where people have low cholesterol and they don't die right away, they don't die erectly, and they'll say that's that's justification for lowering this stuff as low as possible. I mean, I mean, if you can get your cholesterol to zero, you probably
won't have heart disease. But I mean I'll be a little well, yeah, I'll be a little vulgar here, but I mean, if if you want to avoid sexually transmitted disease, you could cut off your genitals and that would work too, But it's not a very good it's not a very good strategy.
Yeah. Now, what about the people who would say that you need to have fiber in your diet. Though I've been told that so many times, I don't have a good answer for that other than well, it seems to be working pretty.
Good for me, right, Well, I mean it kind of is what it is. You don't need fiber. I mean, fiber is a conditionally beneficial I wouldn't even call it a nutrient. I mean, you know, we see again a lot of associational data that shows that people that consume more fiber live longer, they have less heart disease, they have little rates of cancer in some instances, and I think that data is clear. But I think really what we're seeing with fiber is really just a proxy measure
for dietary quality. That is to say, if I'm eating fruits and vegetables, which interestingly just jump onto this aside real quick, fiber tends to prevent you from absorbing nutrition. So there's a study a great Today from nineteen seventy eight where they look at people in a high fiber diet versus a very low fiber diet, and they found the people in the high fiber diet lost twice as much protein in their waste products. They lost twice as
much carbonhydrate, twice as much fat. So that nutrition that you're eating ends up in the toilet, which is like, well, that's kind of a waste of money in many ways. But the fact that if you have a fiber rich diet, you're probably less likely to be eating ultra process for fine grains and flowers and sugar. It just displaces it out of the way, you know. One of the is one of the more recent thoughts around the benefits of fire or are what does it do to our microbiome.
We get these bacteria in our gut that produce short chain fatty acids. The most probably well known one is buturic acid, and that seems to have a protective role for the cells that line in the gut, the kalinocytes. Well.
Interestingly enough, and there's a great paper that doctor Tommy Wood and Lucy Mailing Woods at the University Washing I can't remember Lucy Mailing is, but they collaborated on a paper and we're talking about the metabolock flexibility of the gut and what it clearly shows is you can get that same effect those same short chain fatty acids from consuming protein. Protein certainly does that also for me in a low carbon stape because you're now producing these keytone bodies,
and the keytone bodies do the exact same thing. In fact, the keytone bodies hydroxy beta, hydroxy butyrate and buturic acid are almost identical molecules, and it's a very quick reaction where they're reversible, So they.
Do the same thing as what the key tones.
The key totnes are the same thing as the short chain fatty acids that the fiber produces from fermentation in the gut. And what I see with regard to gut health, whether you have IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, or inflammatory billaci, these worth the crones crones, these are also colitis. By going carnivore and removing fiber from the diet, literally people have the best gut health of their life. I mean they feel so much better. They no longer have the pain,
the diarrhea, the bloody, bloody stools, the bloating. It just normalizes. And in fact, I was a guy here at that's conference, says bred Ender. He put his ulcer of colitis that he was on you know years of this, you know, sixty seventy thousand dollars a year of infusion medications, these immuno suppressive drugs. He was able to come off completely. Goes Carnival. He's like, it's never come back.
Yeah, I've seen amazing things. I haven't had any big conditions to come off of. But I've seen i' seen other people. Now, what about the quality of the meat that you eat? So like with safety and for example, he's like, oh, I just go through McDonald's. I'll just get a bunch of patties by themselves. I'll just get six or eight patties and just chow that down. But I think that seems like really bad meat. Is there something where the meat sort of filters out, maybe the antibiotics or the ZMO grain.
They Yeah, so with particularly with regard to beef, So the way animal, you know, animal diesin. You know, we've got roominant animals, cows, sheep, deer, elk, things like that where they have these sort of four chambered digestive stomachs, if you will, versus a model gasri which would be a chicken or a pig, which is where you know, most of our most of the food we're gonna eat beef, chicken, or pork typically here at least in the US. What we know is that particularly when it comes to beef.
And I'm a big big I'm wearing a shirt says he'd beef be happy. I'm a big beef guy. That that meat irrespective of how it's finished, generally is pretty healthy for people. I mean what I first time the road image at the end or whole, Well, I mean it's really the differences are at the end, because all cows start out on grass and pastor. In the United States, every cow in fact, right now they are about ninety million head of cattle in the unit the United States.
Eighty five percent of them right now today are sitting on pasture and grass. That's just the reality of the system. Now, fifteen percent of them are currently finishing out at a feed lot. You know, that's going to be a large percentage of cows eventually end up there and they'll be fed. You know, they'll continue to consume grass and forage to that. You know, certain agricultural grain products are at sometimes corn,
sometimes it's barley, depending on what region they're in. But the reality is that you can go to the grocery store and buy hamburgers and you're fine. I've seen people put diabetes in remission. I've seen people put bipolar disorder into our mission. I've seen people put multiple sclerosis into remission by doing that. Now, the difference really lies with the environmental impact, because I think that's where the differences come in. It's not so much the human health side,
or at least it's not a significant difference. Filled by the name of Stefan von Vliet who's at University of Utah, Fred Pravenza at Duke have looked into the nutritional differences between and there are there clearly are. You can look at grass finished or regeneratively finished, which is probably a better even a better word, versus you know, the typical feed lot finished things. There are nutritional differences, for sure, no doubt. However, the clinical outcomes we're seeing have not
been significantly difference. Harvard did a study on this back in twenty twenty one. I asked that the researchers specifically ask about grain finished versus grass finished. They did, The outcomes weren't any different. I've got data on about twelve
thousand people showed the same thing. So while I am very supportive of finishing animals and pasturing them in a very regenerative way, and I think we should do a heck of a lot more of that, I don't think people feel like they have to do it that way to get the health results, because that's not been the.
It's sort of it's a little bit better, but you don't really see it in the health. Yeah.
Like when I was first on Rogue and I was talking, I gave kind of the UFC you know, grass finished beef, UFC World champ Grain Finish is like the number two contender guy. I mean, they're still very very high level foods.
So you would be fine going to McDonald's.
I would, and I mean, well grab those, I would. I'd go to Windys and Steaks. I think it tastes better, but.
I mean yeah, I mean I assume you're getting real meat.
Yeah, I mean, and you know that's the concern a lot of people is, oh, it's cooked in these all these crazy oils. And you know, if you go to these restaurants and you ask them, they're like, no, we don't use oils. And the reason for that is is because it's a waste of money. Why before he has fat it it doesn't need that. Now I've eat the French fries, yeah, you're gonna get all the crappy soybean
oil and all that stuff. So I'm I don't do that regularly, but if I'm traveling or something like that, if I'm on a road, if the airport, I'm like, man, it's just between this and not eating. Yeah, I'll go there and grab a grab a burger patty for penalttle burger time for.
Sure, and so and then on the steak like grass fed, grass finished, grass fed, grain finished, both, yeah.
Both, I mean, you know, I mean there's there's only you know, grass finished and there's grain finished. Those are two options. I mean, everything is grass fed at some point, Like I said, every cow that starts out is going to start on grass for but six, eight, nine, ten months.
But steak from Costco or the grocery store versus having my rancho ship at to me from Texas.
I'll eat either of them. And I have and I can't say that I personally have seen any significant personal differences, you know, for me. But there are people, you know, again, I've interacted with literally thousands of people at this point. They've done this dot. There are people clearly that will say I feel better when I only eat grass finished products. Conversely, there people saying I feel better on grain finished problem. So I think it's kind of personalized at that point.
For me, the grass fed grass finished is just a little too tough and it loses a lot of the flavors.
Well, it's harder to finish those animals out I talked to ranches. It takes more skill, it takes more time. You may not be able to do it everywhere in every location just because of the climate. Grain finishing is pretty much down to a science. It's pretty easy. I mean they've got that, they've got that built into the system.
So I mean that's you know, at least you know you're gonna get a well marble piece of steak that's gonna give you enough fat, because when you're not consuming carbohydrates, you got it fat. I mean, as you know. I mean, otherwise you'll be like hungry all the time. You have no energy.
And for you, you don't do eggs and cheese or any of that.
No, I do, I do from time to time. I mean I've, like I said, I've gone eight years now eating ninety five percent of my diet has been basically beef. I mean that's literally it. Another five percent will be sometimes I'll have agg Sometimes I feel like you'll have a I'll have a half dozen eggs are in the air. Sometimes I'll hold it the cheese. But I mean that's you know, fish every occasionally.
Do you ever have like a special occasion and have like a bited cheese scate?
Yeah, I mean I have. I have it once and like my kid's birthday. I mean that happens a couple of times a year, one or two times a year. But it's it's it's so insignificant. It's not really any meaningful part of my diet. It's not like I'm every day I'm consuming you know, three pieces of fruit, just a balance. I'm pretty much I just eat a bunch of meat and eggs and that's pretty much it for you of the time.
So I've been doing it. It's to me it's the easiest thing. I think for me, though, I've learned to think about food as energy and like I'm just trying to and so I kind of eat the same thing every day at lunch and dinner, and like, I just like that because I try to take all the decisions out of my life. So for me, it's great. But for a lot of people you had said earlier, they have to kind of rethink the way they think about food.
They're addiction to food, and so I'm just curious, you know, for everybody listening here that goes, Wow, it sounds pretty cool, sounds great, but I could never do that. So what do you think is the biggest obstacle that holds people back from being able to Just because the diet is so simple, you could just go to Wendy's and just get a patty. It's like, it's the easiest thing in the world. What advice do you have for people who would want to try it but think they couldn't do that?
Yeah, I mean it's surprising. It's surprising because you think, when when I first have heard about this thing, like ten years ago, there was crazy people eating all me. I thought it was nuts. I literally did, And so I tried it and you know, I was able to do it for a month and was so eye opening, how much better I felt that. I was like, there's something here that's going to keep me doing this now. Truth be told, I don't think of it as this is something I'm going to do the rest of my life.
I might. I may, I don't know. I mean, I'm eight years into this. There's a very good chance I might. But I don't pigeonhole myself into that sort of ideology. It's not ideology based, and I think if you think about it, you know, if you have a reason to do it. I mean if there's no if you're healthy and fine and happy and everything feels great, hey, there's
no reason to change things. But if you're sick and suffering, or if you're just curious if you could feel better, it's worth doing for a couple of months, and you know, you think about it. Most people do this, Like that guy that had ulso of collasses. It took him two years, he fixed his disease and now he has a diet where he includes a lot of other foods in there. I mean he's not eating junk, and he's not back to that standard American garbage diet, but he's able to
have a more you know, robust and very dieting. In our company, Rovero, I mean we literally take people. Some people will put on a carnival diet, some we won't. Some will just will just eliminate what we think is most likely to be problematic for their particular condition based
on all the data we have. And you know, sometimes people need to do it for three six months, you know, and just think of it as a therapyic tool get you where you want to be weight wise, health wise, and then reassess and say, hey, can I add some fruit backing? Can I add some rice? And can I add some whole unprocessed foods back? And most people end up doing that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For me, it started with I read Tim Ferris's book Tools for Titans, and he talked about how there was like people would have this like breakthrough and they got this light energy and like this brain fog would be lifted. And I was like, ooh, I want that. I wanted like that performance gain and it was from the intermittent fasting. And I'm like, oh, that's tough. I really love breakfast. I don't know if I could do that, but I could do anything for two weeks. Do you try for
two weeks? And I haven't stopped. It's been a decade, you know, and so maybe maybe people could just try to like that bite sized chunk. And then it was like okay, But then I eat lunch and then I go downhill? So what's going on with my lunch? And then it was like I kind of.
Picked the way at it, you know, Yeah, I mean the way I started corner right. I literally did one meal. I was like, I I woke up one more, and I said, I'm gonna have steak and eggs for breakfast, and I'm not gonna have a piece of toast. I'm not gonna have some ores, I'm not gonna have a couple of yoga and not kind have a piece of fruit. And I got through the meal, I was like, you know, hey,
that wasn't that bad. Yeah, And then the next added two meals, and I just kind of added on until I got to a month and then, uh, you know, I haven't looked back since then.
Now what about you know a lot of people on the carnivore diet and back to the vegetables. So people would say that you need to have vegetables, like you need vitamin if you need the minerals things like that. I think carnivores would say, well, you can get more from that from from from cowparts, but more like livers and organs and things like that. Yeah.
Well, I mean, if you want to look at the USRDA, the recommended daily allowances of you know, how much vitamin C and vitamin E and selenium and magnesium you're supposed to get, you would look at the diet, you know, particularly my not steak and eggs, you'd say there's some there's some nutritional deficiencies there, and the reality is we
don't see that clinically appearing. But the other reality is that like for instance, people say, oh, these vegetables and first have all these quote unquote fighting nutrients in there.
They're so important, these tannins and polyphenols and stuff like that. Well, interestingly, again Stefan van Vliet has done another study looking at phyto nutrients that are found in beef, and actually beef has a tremendous amount of fighter nutrients we never really discussed before because we thought what was getting from the vegetables. Cows have a much more diverse diet than I could ever consume as a human being. They can go out there and eat grass and weeds and leaves and everything
that would make me sick. Because they have such a diverse diet, those polyphenols and those other phio nutrients show up in there, in there, in their flesh, in their in their fat and their meat, and they're biol they're very by available to us. So we actually get vegetables from eating the cow that already ate them for us.
The plant based diet is the cow eats the plant yeah, the cow cow eats the plants, they actually retain a lot of those nutrients and then we get them and it's more bioavailable for us.
Remember, plants are harder for us to dies. That's one reason why plant based diets a lot of people will lose weight on is because they literally cannot absorb the nutrition. So again, like I said earlier, you're just crapping it all out in the toilet. So it's you know, it's a great way to lose weight, but it's kind of it's kind of not very cost effective.
So I guess the question I'm asking is it important to eat the livers and the kidneys, And.
Again that's a that's an assumption people make based on what you need to get to the us RDA. So like if you said I'm going to get us are da of vitamin C sixty million rams a day or something like that, You're like, you're gonna have a hard time getting that from steak. You'd have to eat like fifteen pounds of steak, which is no one's going to do that, I mean outside some competitive eater. So the
question is what happens if you don't eat all that? Well, the reality is we've not seen anybody with scurvy were I mean literally is no one has had a legitimate, bona fide case of scurvy. And now we've had if not hundreds of thousands, you know, you know, at least many tens of thousands people have done this that. And the interesting thing is is that you know every like every cell in my body. I mean, I use this analogy.
If I'm going to build a brick house, right and I have an option to use straw and mud or have bricks already built for me, I'd rather use the bricks. It's more efficient, you know, every every like if if you say the cells in my body require vitamin C, well, by definition those cells have to contain it. If they need it, they have to contain it. So we know that everything you need to run an animal cell exists within an animal So I know, it's kind of almost
a totalogy, you know. And so by consuming an adequate number of atom animal cells, you give yourself all the building materials you need. We also know that, you know, like I mentioned, like even the US already eight now now recognize it's like zinc, for instance, zinc, we have a we have a certain rda of zinc we're supposed to get every day. If we're eating fighty cast which comes from grains and beans and some of these other plant makes products, and we eat one gram of fighter
cast to today, that literally doubles our zinc requirement. If we two grams, it triples a zinc requirement. And so because we're not, you know, putting all those substances, which are so called anti nutrients in there, we just don't need as much stuff to make up for it. Like everybody's magnesium deficient. You know, it's like, why is everybody magnesium? What's the soils depleted magnesium? Well, one of the things we know is magnesium is a cofactor for carbohydrate metabolism.
And so if you're constantly consuming sixty seventy percent carbs and also you're having hard time absorbing magnesium because you have these lectins and phytic acid in there, not only you're having a hard time are absorbing magnesium, you're also you can't absorb you can't you have a higher requirement for it, and so it's kind of a double whammy. And so again, ultimately it is what it is. We don't have a lot of data on people just consuming meat.
We have a few studies out there, but there's been I mean, gosh, almost no evidence it suggests anyone's developing any significant vitamin deficiencies. And Harvard study that came out in twenty twenty one, they specifically looked at that. They didn't find any evidence of nutrient deficiencies.
So I don't have to eat the liver if I don't want to, you don't.
I don't need it. I don't need I don't eat liver. I don't eat I don't take organ meat pills. I think it's kind of a you know, kind of a waste of money in my view. But anyway, all right, last question. We go to the cattleman's feast. We got three, Uh, we.
Got three talent hockey. Who's gonna get to it first? Oh gosh, we got three.
We have to eat. I don't know the challenge that's friends. How big they are. I can maybe do two. I don't think I can do I can if if there's nine pounds with the bone, the three pounds, so probably you probably got a pound and a half a bone in there, seven and a half pounds. That's what I'm not I'm not in I could eat two of them for sure.
Yeah, I might.
I'm trying to, Like I said, I'm trying to, I'm trying to lean down a little bit. So I'm not really as pumped about that. There is a it's kind of I interviewed this Gal Molly scholar years ago. Shake twenty two pounds of beef in one sitting in, uh, twenty two pounds a woman, you know, one hundred and twenty pound a woman did that?
Soosle All right, So we'll linkd all your stuff down below. But you have a clinic that you help people with this and help good.
So it's called Rivero dot com. It's ri E V E r O. We are a online digital clinic. We have fully licensed physicians in all fifty states. We have teams of health coaches. We have all kinds of supportive information. If you have a metabolic disease, diabetes, obesity, hypertension, if you have an autoimmune or an inflammatory condition you know, Crohn's disease, rheumatortithritis, rias, and so on and so forth.
We got physicians that are there that get this stuff, to understand nutrition, that are going to work with you to hopefully get off your medications hopefully treat the root cause of the disease, which is what we should be doing in the first place in healthcare instead of this quote unquote disease management model which we have been stuck with for the last twenty thirty years.
Yep, yep, Okay.
With that, we're going to wrap it up. Thanks so much, awesome, appreciate it. Thank you.