Understanding Risk Of Crypto Lending With Alex Mashinsky

from Celsius. We get into some really good conversations. So we talk about their business model, how they're out competing the banks at what they do. We talked about growing in a bear market and the trajectory of their growth over the last year, having started in the boom market and growing to the bear market. And then we get into the risks of crypto lending, looking at some of the risk the pitfalls, and we talk about the biggest danger, the number one thing, the biggest risk to crypto lending

and what they're doing about it. So, anyway, lots of your conversation with Alex us I just jump right into it. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors show. I am here with Alex Maschinski from Celsius. He probably doesn't need much of an induction introduction, but welcome to the show, Alex, thanks for having me. How are you. I'm doing great, Thanks so much for thanks for joining. I. Uh, like I said, you probably don't need much of an introduction.

You're pretty well known throughout the industry because you're one of the hardest working guys around the industry, I guess. But but for those that maybe don't know, just tell us a little bit about you know, how you got to the space and what you're doing right now. Sure, and so I founded the Celsist Network with Daniel and two years ago, and our mission was too really scale

the industry. We felt that the industry is kind of stuck, uh with the number of users, with like the type of people that are in it, and we couldn't get to like mass adoption. So we thought that if we created a product that acted in the best interest of the community and earned the yield, we could bring seven and a half billion people to crypto because that's what

everybody's looking for. So we think that we found kind of like that the magic utility that everybody wants, right and uh, I guess we're doing good because everybody is now trying to copy us coin Base and Finance and all these guys. I now, even charl Schwap stopped charging fees for you know, so it's like, so we're dragging everybody with us, but still Celsia space six seven times more than everybody else, and we paid more bitcoin to our users and all the other guys put together, So

we have a lot of very happy customers. Yeah, So to to kind of break that down, I mean, you're wearing a shirt that says total um. So for the people that want to hold all that one just they don't want to sell, they want to hold. It gives them an option to start earning interest on those tokens as opposed to selling them if they want to access them for liquidity, which seems like a pretty good method. Now.

I know when we talked in the past, you really wanted to give people an option other than the banks, because the banks are basically taking money on deposit and loaning it out, but they don't pay anything, right, So that's kind of what you're trying to go after. Yeah, the competition is between the crypto community and the banks. Right, all of us give our money for free to the banks. The bank's turnaround landed on the credit card to our

neighbor charge them. They keep all that profit to themselves. Well what if you and me as depositors could get all that profits. Associates does the same thing the banks do, but it takes eighty percent of the profit that gives it to the depositors instead of the banks taking eighty percent of the profit and giving it to their shareholders. So it's a very simple concept for people to understand. And you can afford to do that because you don't have a skyscraper in uh in the Financial District in

New York, in a fancy apartment in Manhattan. Yes, but I can afford that because it's the right thing to do. I think you very rarely in life you can do good and do well at the same time. I'm and it's to do it several times. If you look at my history, Celsius, my eighth company, the company before that, I put wireless in the subways in the ark after a hundred year there was no years that there was no connectivity or communications in the subways, right, So that

was fighting with the city and so on. And now eight million people use the service for free. I did Voice of i P before that four billion people use that. I know most people won't believe it. Just go old Wikipedia and put my name in there. So so this is again the same thing I've done my entire life, right, create opportunity for other people, Uh, give them something they

thought that they didn't deserve. And here I am part of the one percent, but I found a way for everybody for the basically take advantage of all these magical things that the one percent does only for themselves. And what we do is without getting sidetracked, but maybe just a little bit um you know. So you know, someone like yourself, like you're talking about you kind of have this track record of of creating things to help other people, right, free,

free connectivity, right for phones or whatever. Uh, finding a way to give back profits um and and so, like you said, you are part of the one percent. But isn't it almost something like like I've always believed that if you help other people get what they want, then you get what you want. My parents I was born in Russia and the US are and my parents taught me from the first day that giving is receiving, right and and uh so I'm a given right. I was just born that way. I was brought up that way.

And the more give, the more happy I am. I find happiness in that. I don't find any happiness in hoarding and dying with the most dollars in the bank account. I mean, that just doesn't do anything for me. So I did I do well only because all these other people are doing well. And Celsius now is over four hundred million dollars in deposits, and we earn again six seven eight percent on that. If you keep twenty percent, that enough to pay all the bills for the company.

It's enough to pay my bills. Everybody's happy, Yeah, So let's talk about that. So UM, it's been about two years since you launched UM kind of launched kind of like right in the crypto boom with Seeen or whatever. UM. But even through the downturn the bear market, you've continued to grow at a pretty rapid pace. What's the growth been like over the last years? Wearing the huddle shirt and it was very unpopular. People kept coming to me at conferences and saying, isn't it time to get rid

of this huddle shirt? Because a bit that went down from I think sixteen thousand down to thirty it was a very unpopular shirt. Now people are saying, where can I get this shirt? Alex, come on, give me the shirt. So look ups and downs. The Hoddlers stay Hoddlers, right. The people who were sold out, as we know, always sell out at the wrong time because of when our emotions come to play. Unfortunately, that's exactly what the traders prey on. They prey on fear, they prey on despair,

they prey on you losing your uh faith. And I mean, you're a hoddler and you're earning that six or seven percent on top of it, that just gives you more comfort to It gives you that extra few months that sometimes you need to weather the storm. I'm curious from someone like you who's kind of been in the technology niche right with void um and you've been an early adopter, right, so you've been building it before it was popular, So

you've kind of seen this play out before. And so we went through this bear market where a lot of people folded up shop or kind of just just just held back, but you pushed forward and built more, right. I mean, do you think, um, I mean, is that because you just believe in the industry, and now it's kind of starting to pay off or you're still building

waiting for it to come. Look, the early days of Voice of Our p were just as hard when we went out and try to convince people that they can stop using their phone company and they can switch to this little company that no one knew back then it was called urban It and and people laughter us. They're like, I'm never gonna trust you. Who are you? You know, like you are nobody and using this weird technology that nobody else has, you know, like I we can't trust

you for anything. Uh So it wasn't easy, right, But that convincing people to switch from one phone company to another is definitely not as hard as convincing people to deposit money. Stop depositing money with City or JP Morgan and giving it to you. So I think the bar is much higher, and that's why we have that slower adoption. Right. If you look at the speed at which the Internet scale,

we are scaling one tenth that speed. And part of what I dedicating the rest of my life too is really make sure that seven billion people have access to this because the banks are not going to change their way. The politicians are going to change their way. The Fed just injected two hundred and eighty billion dollars in two weeks, right, they created poof two and an eighty billion. No one

they paid any attention to it. So when people are gonna realize that all of that is hidden inflation that just eats away your money, right, we're gonna realize when it's too late. Yeah, if a catapult was eating your house, you would go to the exterminator and take care of it right away. Well, guess what, this caterpillar is eating a dollar and you're not doing anything about it. So I think again, bitcoin is the best doomsday insurance out there.

It's the cheapest doomsday insurance out there. And anyone who does not have one to five cent of their money in it doesn't understand what's happening every day. I'm curious. So, like I said, you know, you started in the in the peak of the of the boom, and then you built all through the bear market. But I've seen other people in the industry, coin Base and others like reporting good numbers like good signaps um good. You know, we

see a bunch of new wallets coming online. Hash power super strong, but your business has continued to grow as well, right, So, like, can you tell us a little bit like what the growth curve may have been like over the last you know, eighteen months. Has it been kind of steady up or do you take a dip? Is are we on a big up trend right now? So people are excited about coin based Binance. Those are trading businesses, right They go up and down in volume based on the hype of

the trading. We consistently make six seven eight percent on our a U M. And we from day one we had the same growth. We did not have slowed down. We did we were trying to speed it up. We can't do that either. It's between a hundred and fifty and two hundred people every day. Then we got between two and three million dollars and deposits every day. And now sometimes I can tell you when Binance announced the lottery interest income and everybody went to their site and

found out that I can't actually learn anything. We got fourteen million dollars that day and the next day we got like nine million dollars. So we we definitely had a rampop because other people were trying to copy us, but they didn't deliver, right, So, but consistently we do two to three million. Our average depositors twenty tho dollars. The average coin based deposited about a thousand dollars. So we have the cream of the crop of the crik

To community. We have the Hoddler community, the coin Base, the Bindance have the trader community, right, the speculator community. So these are different communities that have different behavior and we serve different purposes. Right. Our job is to protect to create yield. We always represent the depositor. We don't represent the hatch fund. We don't We're not a neutral player. I can assure you that coin Base cannot look at you in the face and tell you I'm always acting

in your best interests or Bindance or anybody else. Right, So, I I heard something about a new milestone that was passed where you guys have reached a record of of assets under management a u M. Right, like something about four million or so. Yeah, we'll just crossed the four hundred million. And again that's a few into some pretty rare air up in the top. I think, uh, probably one of the probably at least one of the biggest funds in all of crypto I would imagine at this point.

I think officially it says is number two, right behind the Great Scale. So there were a few other people up there, and it looks like we're sucking assets up from everybody. Right. So again, if if you're not paying your customers uh for depositing assets with you, and we are, why would they keep the oussets with you? Why wouldn't

they swim over? Right? So, so I think we've proven over two years that were consistent, we pay we you know, the funniest the best thing is that we took the worst day of the week, which is Monday, and we made it the best day of the week because we pay interest. Monday morning, most of our customers wake up and there's interest in their uh inbox, you know, just waiting for them and a smile and the fifty people faces every every Monday morning. Yeah, that's great. So that's

a great milestone. Congratulations on that. So, you know, the business model of paying out you know whatever four or five, six, seven sometimes interests is amazing, um almost two good to be true? Right? Uh. You know I've talked about earning interests on stable coins and and other cryptocurrencies, bitcoin and stuff and so I've I've got a lot of feedback from from users. A lot of people just say, oh, Alex seems like such a great guy. I just trust

him because I see him talking all the time. But but realistically, um, nothing is risk free in life, right, Doing nothing is not risk free? Right, as you already said, the worms eating the house. If I leave my money in the bank, I know I'm losing money there. Um, So we know there's risk, but UM, I know some of it is counterparty risk. And so you're taking that

money loaning it out to earn income. Uh. Some of the things I've heard would be that, like you loaned the bit fin x and bit fin x is potentially going to be in trouble with the n Y, you know, a g over tether and whatnot. What can you say about something like that? So we we longed to about a hundred eight institutions. We loaned to bit fin x, We loan to many others, and for each one of them we have a risk profile. So we don't land than anybody unless we on board. Then we do full

ky CML. We get to see their balance sheet and we get to understand what the risk is because we represent the community right if if if we make a mistake, we have to pay for it from our treasury and make the community good right. So so we have a

counterparty risk. In this case, the counterparty would be bit fin x, or it would be a trading firm mostly hedge funds, or other major Wall street firms that trade in bitcoin, and specifically to bitfin x. We have seen assurances from them in the form of audited financials, in the form of their uh A deposit on hand, in the form of their insurance. That makes us feel that

we can trust them with some of our assets. Now we also bore from them, so at any time we try to balance that risk, meaning the amount that we give them. We may give them ripple, or we may give them life coin. Most people think we give them bitcoin, but bit foin x pay is less than one percent a year on bitcoin, so obviously we're paying four and a half percent, So you can't make four and a

half percent if you land at one percent. We don't land bit finex any bitcoin, but the coins that they do want, where we can earn a nice heel, we then borrow other things for them. We borrow other assets that offset the risk, meaning if they default for any reason.

We hold enough assets where we have zero risk or zero exposure, and we do that with everybody like we you know, even like we we land and bore from Galaxy Digital, for example, and at any time we have a net zero exposure in most cases with them and with other major institutions. Galaxy Digital is a public company. You can see their assets, so it's very easy for you to know, for you, meaning for Celsius, to know

what's our risk exposure and manage that properly. So um your bank, any bank did you deposit dollar with, and does the same thing if you happen to uh the bank, for example, with Deutsche Bank, they'll leverage fifty two one, meaning they took for every dollar that you gave them a deposit, they lent out fifty dollars out there, and so they have tremendous We We never have more than one to one leverage. So we are under leverage compared to any bank or any major financial institution in the

United States. So it would be hard for me to say we're less risky because we're not ABAC insured and we're not all these other things, but we're definitely less much less leverage than most of these guys you're talking about most of the other financial institution that people think are safe havens. So really, then, I mean, whether it's bit fin X or any other number of people, I mean, it's always counterparty risk. So if I loan money to you,

I know you and I've talked to you. But when I lean money to you and you leaned to somebody else, then I lose that relationship. UM. And so whether it's fifin X or whoever, there's counterparty risk. And basically what you're saying is that UM, you guys manage that, UM, spread the risk around by institutions, and then offset the risk with borrowing and lending. I guess that's that's the answer, right,

So we we we manage on behalf of fifty depositors. So, like like I said to you before we started recording, right, anyone, any person can go open account of bit finis and lend them XRP directly and earned twenty more than what we pay you. Out Right, you can bypass us go directly to any of these institutions, but you will have to create a hundred a D the relationship. You're gonna have to do PSCML and all of them, you're gonna have to manage the accounter, party risk and everything else.

So if you think about us just charging for that, I think that is definitely a reasonable uh kind of it's a fair deal for both sides, right, that's what we're trying to say. What about what about regulatory risk? So that would be something also, right, So let's say that the regulators, whoever they may be right, they're they're very unclear on what's going on. So they want to come in and freeze your accounts because of the cell token, or because you did business with tether, or because any

number of reasons. So what kind of what do you think about that risk? Full disclosure? We are filed DI reg D with SEC where fins and registered. If you check all the other people that do this kind of stuff in the business or based in the Seychelle Islands, or based in in Malta or based in the b v I or whatever, you would see that none of them have any SEC filings of FINS and filing. So

we actually work with regulators. We work with enforcement agencies when they need to find certain assets and they're trying to track different accounts. If somebody comes to us and asked us that I'm talking about regulators or enforcement agencies. We are there to co operate with them, right, So we are a good citizen in the financial system. Uh. And unlike most of the projects in the crypto space which did like you've seen us recently paid twenty four million,

they'll fine. The reason they paid a fine is because they didn't do what Celsius did. They did not file a reg D when they did their race. If they did, they wouldn't be paying the twenty four million all fine. So we are the example. We have the highest standard in our industry today. Celsius is probably the only company, the only i c oh in the United States that did not receive an sec S a letter or an action letter or any kind of action. Look, look we

we again. We we have a compliance department. We did KYC from day one. We didn't do KYC after we had ten million customers and we decide, oh my gosh, we forgot to do KYC. Let's do And that's part of what slows our growth. I mean, we have we have a hundred and twenty thousand downloads and we only had forty five thousand people that pass KYC. So we paid for it in the form of not admitting tens of thousands of people. We either don't know how to do it or they'll get scared when we asked them

for the social security or for their driving license. So it's not easy for us. It's not like, oh, look, can't I see it's so easy? Right? We lose half of our customers because of that. But compliance and protecting our community right, making sure we don't admit any bad apples, because that's again, I represent the community. If I screw up for the community, I will lose uh everybody, right, So our job and that's why we only promising midicine

single digits. We're not trying to get you, right, So we're trying to balance the risk with providing great security blanket for the entire cryptic community that that uses us. So if I'm a potential user and I'm looking at this and saying, shoot, I'd like to make some percent return on my crypto or stable coin um and I want to do my due diligence or whatever, what, what would you say is the number one risk that I should watching out for. So look, you you you don't

have to trust us at all. You can verify all of our assets. You can verify the loans with issue. You can verify are we giving back eight or not. There's many many different online forms that do that every day. If you go to the Celsius network telegram channel that is managed by the community. If you go to Celsians that network that colm sorry, that is a website that is managed by the community that is basically reports as a separate, independent party on what Celsius does. We report

as well. You can go to our website and see all of our wallets and what do we have there, but you you will see a lot of stats that are not available on our side in those other communities where people got this either because they tweeted something or they got it because they did deep research on all the wallets and they saw where the coins went and so on, and you know, they asked very hard questions.

You can see them asking us, poke, poking us and saying, well, this number is not exactly what you said, because it's not exactly right. Sometimes it's seventy nine point six and sometimes it's eighty two point two. Right. The numbers fluctuate, but we try to keep it at that eight percent level of giving back to the community. So all these things are the question is it Sells is acting in the best interests of everybody in our community, or Sells

is treating different people differently? Is Alex stealing all the coins for himself? Things like that that are that are real questions because unfortunately in our industry in the last ten years had a lot of example of bad actors. Right, So, so I don't discount your your question or the listeners questions because these are critical issues and it takes it takes institutions very long time to build trust. And I don't expect people to trust me overnight. We have to deliver.

For some people, we may have to deliver for ten years before they trust us. Right, Yeah, Well, I mean the longer that you do, Like you said, building that reputation is what it takes. And like I said, I mean, there's always gonna be risking something and and there's risk leaving your money in the bank as well. So it's just important for everyone to do that. And I just was hoping to get some framework like you've given for

people to look at different platforms. I think what's interesting is most people probably don't realize is that if they leave any of their coins on exchanges. It's probably already happening to them without them even knowing it. Yes, most people don't know that exchanges use their coins to make tremendous amount of profit. Again, I don't want to pile on just on the binance, but if you take them on the profit that Bindance makes, right, then you look

at how much they made from trading fees. There's a huge gap there. And the huge gap is money they made from front rounding, from rehypothication, from all these things that they do, from arbitrage, from all these things that they do using your coins. Now, very recently, like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, they and now it's gonna start paying interest. Well, they're paying only to two d The first two hundred will have pressed the button the computer, right,

So like an auction. They only have a million seven worth of deposits that they take every two weeks, which is about two hundred people, you know, and they have two million customers, So how exactly is everybody gonna get to our own interest? So again it's just a gimmick. It's more of like a promo to try to keep people from leaving the exchange. But I called sizy on it, right. I I asked CZ to do just a good job for his depositor as it does for himself, hoarding being

being paying himself all those dividends. I'm curious. Um, one more thing you had mentioned. Uh, you'd mentioned that you have like a treasury fund and if one of your one of your positions took a loss, you'd have to come out of the treasury fund. And so you've already talked about how you kind of distribute about a different borrowers um and then you have the treasury fund to kind of back up a potential loss. Um. Is that

is that the way it kind of works. I mean, our people kind of have some faith and maybe we can see the treasury uns and we know that you're willing to take a little bit of a loss before you pass it on to everybody else. Socialize that loss. Yeah, So you know, I tweeted that a few weeks ago. I said, while other exchanges of socializing losses, we're socializing profits, right. The socialized it is so we we have not had

to socialize anything besides the interest distribution. Every week since we launched for almost two years, right, every Monday, like a clock work. We pay interest. The interest varies based on what we earned, but we paid every Monday, right and if we are in zero, we would pay zero. We're not fabricating the numbers. I can tell you that all of our competitors coin and not coin based, but block five and next so and salt and and the crypto dot com, they all subsidizing it from their treasure.

They're not earning anything, right, So and the block fire specifically said that publicly on block TV, admitting, oh yeah, we just use our investors money to pay your interest. So those are not sustainable business models, right. I mean, what Celsius did is created We invented this business, right. We basically engineered the solution that did exactly what the banks do, but the opposite. It gave all of that

profit back to the depositors, right versus the shareholders. And because of that, there is such traction and there's such uh commitment from these depositors to give us more and more capital to manage. So yes, we we take out

of that. We pay salaries, we pay all of our expenses, and whatever is left we're putting into a pot that is used to protect users in case we do make a mistake and any loss we have, if we have it in the future, will come from that first and only if there's not enough there, then we will have to socialize some of those losses, but we plan never

to get there. We also have protection, like we have insurance UH and we have other things that help us protect many layers before we hit anything that has to do with the visitors. All right, now, UM, I know you know, so I kind of dug into some of the risks and the problems, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer that I did think I see, I think I saw recently that um light Coin or light Coin Foundation had asked you to actually manage some

of their funds. Yes, we announced that they selected us for their treasury management. They also recommended us to their community. So they basically went out and said, look, we looked at all the players. We think Celsius is the best solution for our community. And again, our job is to make sure that we give enough UH income to the like coin foundations that they can perform their tasks. Right.

I mean, when they deposit these coins with this without exchange, they get nothing back, right, and suddenly now they have enough income where they can pay the salaries, they can pay some of the developers, and all that is great for the foundation. Right. So I think this is the kind of stuff that I think our industry needs to

do more where we all help each other. Instead of replacing the banks with new toll collectors called Buyance or other guys who just keep taking money out and giving it to Wall Street folks right or to investors, how about we we distribute all that value internally. So I think nothing I'm saying is new or different, just that no one is doing it. Everybody around us is a toll collector, and they catch us on the way in, right, they charge us four or five to buy the bit point,

They catch us on the way out. They catch us when we trade. Every time we make a move, we have to pay a big to some landlord who is taking that money out and giving it to the VC or the investor or whatever. It's never back to the community. The model Selsis created, almost all of it is going back to the community. Now, I would think that you know, as you said, everybody's kind of jumping in. Everybody's doing it, maybe behind the scenes without transparency. Everyone's jumping into it.

Um you're obviously growing Celsie is growing at a at a very rapid rate. I would think at some point like the larger you get, the larger in the east industry gets, the harder it gets to get that yield. Is there some risk they're like, maybe there's a ceiling on the business, or uh, your business becomes more risky as you get to a larger a U M. That's a great question, because the question is do you believe in the vision? Right? I mean do you believe that

cryptocurrencies of the future. I mean, are they going to replace Fiat currencies? If you believe that, then there's nothing to worry about. Right, there's enough room here for growth for ten celsius or the question is is there enough to put a trillion dollars out of ten percent interest or whatever? So there's no question I said that publicly before. If we start managing tens or hundreds of billions of dollars or trillion dollars, the the yield will come down.

It's not gonna come down to zero, it's not. It's always going to be more. I guarantee it's going to be more than the FED rate. But but um, but it's not gonna be eight to nine percent, I agree with you. So, and again it's a balanced between stable coins and crypto right. So, right now our biggest asset

is bitcoin. It's probably like something like fifty then another thirty percent the stable coins, and then we have atheroreum and everything else, right So, so, and I expect next year that we will have more stable point than bitcoin actually on depositive right. So, so for many people, we represent an alternative to the bank. They still don't trust the bitcoin network. They don't really understand what the theorem

stands for. So they're, you know, like, we we want to be that safe ground where they can still keep one leg at the bank and they can keep one leg on a stable coin, and they can get comfortable with the rest of the cryptocurrencies, right, but they don't have to jump into bitcoin and have all that volatility and everything else. And that's fine, that's what no one

else is doing. Right So, so if we can do that, we can bring a hundred two hundred, three hundred million people to be comfortable with all that, then it's very easy to convince them. It's much easier to convince it to five with them percent of their money and bitcoin as well, so we're just looking at it a little

bit differently. We are decentralized company with centralized services, right, we do we on both sides of it, unlike defied companies or purely decentralized, and they can only serve people who are in crypto. Right. So all these things are things that we look differently and behave differently because to bring the next hundred million people you can do what you did in the last ten years, you have to

do what you need to do in the future. Yeah, I'm curious, um, someone who with with your experience of building in the technology space, UM, switching gears just a little bit. I mean, what do you think, uh, like some of the big challenges we have to really getting this adoption. You you mentioned how how it's you know, much harder to get someone to use bitcoin than it was to use the void. Um. Where do you kind of see that that adoption roadmap happening in the next

you know, year, five years whatever. So if we have a doomsday scenario, right, if something really bad happens, everybody's going to head out to the exits at the same time, right, and you're gonna have just a mass adoption every anyone who's in this business is gonna have a flood of inbound you know. It's like trying to catch ten different balls at the same time, right, It's that's what's gonna happen. So so in that scenario, we all know everything is wonderful.

If there's no doomsday scenar If we just go through the same thing we're going through right now, we're gonna continue on the slow adoption curve. Right We're gonna have more and more young people buying into this and lessen this. All people deposit money with their old banks. If you walk into a bank branch today, you're not gonna see any young people there. We know who's putting all the money in the bank. So so we we we have to have the generational transition, and that's gonna take a

very long time. And I'm ready for it. I'm not. I'm in no hurry. I'm not like, oh my gosh, I have to do an exit. I have to going on nasdack and go public and sell this to investors. The opposite. We're doing the opposite. We're trying to bring as many retail people from all over the world. We have depositors from all over the world hundred fifty countries, only thirty is Americans. It looks like it looks it looks like the governments may want to be stepping that

timetable up. I mean, we see China right now really trying to push their own crypto, and I think the US probably wouldn't be too far behind. And so, um, all of a sudden, now people go will shoot if all the money is crypto, what's the difference between this U s D or China or yuan or or bitcoin. So maybe they'll do some of the marketing and work for US, and I hope so. But I still think people will trust the JPMorgan coin much more than the wild trust a Celsius coin or bitcoin or anything else.

So I think, look, the US government, I think I said this several times before, but these government loves anything that's denominated in dollars. They don't like anything that's denominated in something else. Right, So they don't like the bitcoin, they don't like the etherorium. They kind of frustratingly let it be because it's it's a nuisance. It's just this little thing that that is that is nothing, right. I mean, when you think about the fact that close to nine

percent of all the trade. International trade is denominating dollars. I mean, the entire volume of bitcoin is nothing. It's like a few hours worth of international trade. It's not even one day of international trade. So it's nothing. It's completely irrelevant. But but if suddenly trade starts being denominated in these cryptocurrencies and becomes a threat to the United States dollar, you know, there's no two ways about it. They're gonna shout it down because they don't want anything

to compete with the dollars. So so I think the stable coins, especially once the nominate in dollars, are again the bridge to get into that world. It's not going to be. The US is not gonna let China with its new cryptocurrency go and take over the world. It's not gonna let that happen. So and so I think, just like they're not gonna let leave what happened, they're not gonna get let the Chinese or the Indian or

anyone else. It's fine if the US it internally, But the minute they try to go and denominate oil or gold, you're saying, as soon as they started try to start to denominate some of this in these other currencies in the U S will have a problem, which I agree. I agree. Um so it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out. But in the meantime, we'll just keep building and totally that's right. Yeah, well it's a long time play. I think you say that in a lot of your I love you or by the way,

I love your videos. Okay, even though I can say I know of what you say listening to you, you deliver it in a very very precise and acute way that it makes you think and it makes you kind of rehearse what you already now. So kudas, I think you're doing a great job for the community. Thank you, Alex, Thank you appreciate that. Good. Well, let's go ahead and wrap it up. I think I think you've done a great job with the community as well. Like I said, that's the one thing I always hear, um which I

don't like. Uh not because I don't like you, but I always hear people. Oh. I just I trust Alex. I see him out there talking. He seems like a great guy, and I just don't like that because I want people to understand what they're doing. I made a video recently called I said do not buy gold until and I got so much hate, like, how could you tell people not to buy gold. I I didn't say that. I said, don't buy it until you understand what it is, how it works into your portfolio, why you would buy it,

That's all I said. Um So, anyway, you know, I think you've done a great job, but I still want to ask these questions. So thanks for thanks for answering them for everybody. If we can't answer the questions, then there's definitely something wrong. So if you can't get a

straight answer to somebody, then you should walk away. That's my That's been my motto, and I'm happy to answer any question anyone wants to, uh, you know, send me, go on Twitter or on Telegram or anything and thing me you can find easily find me and let's build this community together. Yeah, all right, thanks so much for joining in. Thanks for having me. Hey, if you like this episod Code of the Market Disruptors podcast, please help us take this to the top of the podcast charts.

Just please do me a favor and rate, review and subscribe. Taking fifteen seconds to just leave a quick review goes a long way and helping us reach more people and disrupt more markets. I really appreciate you listening, and I'll see you next time on the Market Disruptors podcast