The Mark Moss Show Oct 22, 2021

on some of the things about perception and education. The reason why I want to talk about that specifically is because I believe that education is at the bottom of almost everything in life. And so the problems with our health is we're not educated properly. The problems with our money is we're not educated properly. And I'm joined here in the studio with my friend Brad, who just recently ran a poll and he wanted to find out what

people thought of the financial system, money, bitcoin, etcetera. What the differences were with demographics, ages, education levels and so forth. And I was pretty mazed at the findings that were there, and I want to go over I'm so Brad, thanks so much for joining me today. You're welcome, sir, Thank you for inviting me on. Yeah, so um, I thought it was just so cool the way that you did it, and um, really trying to understand I guess what people

were thinking and then kind of break them down by age, group, sex, etcetera. Um, I guess give me a little bit more background onto what it is that you were trying to do here and what or what you did. Um. Yeah, man, Well, so I am a bitcoin evangelists, and I think of myself as a beginner mind type of person. I like to put myself in the shoes of a normal person,

even though I've been in bitcoin since two thousand eleven. Um, so maybe I'm not in the in the same like newby mind as someone coming to bitcoin in two thousand twenty one, but I want to understand the newbie mind.

So I ran this survey too kind of confirm some things that I had assumptions on about what people think about the money system, what people think about the stock market, what people think about bitcoin, just just to get a kind of an idea of what the different economic classes and uh, you know, men versus women things like that thought about bitcoin and the money system, and uh, we all have our our like suspicions of what everybody thinks and how people are educated on the financial system and

the money system. But it's good to kind of get some confirmations and discover some new stuff. So that's why I had this survey run, so that I could kind of like have a bit more insight into maybe some of the assumptions we have are wrong or maybe they

are all right. So yeah, that was the motivation, just to kind of like test the hypothesis that like, say, boomers just don't get bitcoin, or like women are so conservative that they won't invest in bitcoin, or you know, why are there's so many white males and bitcoin, Like there's all these different things that go around in bitcoin. It's like why do different groups think about the money system different ways? And how do they instinctively think about it?

And they and and use that data so that we, as bitcoin evangelists can craft our message to appeal to the different groups of people to better educate them on what bitcoin really is and how the money system is screwing everybody. I I a couple of things were standing out to be before you came on. While we're waiting for you, I was chatting with my producer and engineer, and um, I just uh, I asked him just a couple of couple of questions. UM, and uh, the one

question was just what backs the U. S Dollar? What's it backed by? That was like one of the questions that you had. And uh, I'm not going to call him up by name, but let's just say that both of them got it wrong. So UM, that was that was pretty telling, you know. UM, but I love the way that you put this together by um one obviously

breaking them down by socio economic factors, ages, etcetera. But also I love that way that you basically run them through a set of questions and then by the time that you've finished showing and then the answers to those questions that you said, a large, large percentage of the people that went through the poll actually had changed their mind.

Is that right? Yeah? That was the kind of initial basis of it was like Ron Paul does this thing on Twitter every year for since two thousands seventeen or so where he posits the question on Twitter and puts

a little pole up. Now. I don't know if it's Ron Paul or his marketing media media manager guy whatever, but like Ron Paul's Twitter account, let's say, puts this poll out where it says, if you were given a windfall of cash, but or sorry, a windfall of ten thousand dollars, but you had to choose to keep it in somewhere for ten years. What would you choose? Would you choose gold? Cash? Um? And I think that he said bonds and bitcoin? Like it was basically like giving

people four options. If you had ten years, someone rich relative gives you some money whatever it is, but you got to leave it there for ten years, what are you gonna choose? And uh, he runs the survey every

year and it's cool. It's a cool concept. So I thought, well, I'd like to get a real survey done where we ask people that question and then we take them through a series of education about the financial system, and then at the end ask them the same question again and measure what the differences between people at the beginning who would say cash, and then people at the end who would drop cash for a bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah, so that's like kind of the first question that you open up with,

which was so cool. By the way, you're listening to the Mark Mo Show, we're talking about bitcoin, the decentralized Revolution. I'm with Brad Mills. Uh. You can find them on Twitter at Brad Mills can M I L L S can so follow him on Twitter ask him some questions

about this if you want. But in that question, basically what you just kind of framed up you would ask, um, if a wealthy person were to gift you ten tho dollars, uh, and you get to choose how you accept it, and it catches, you have to hold it there for ten years, Um, what would you choose? Um? And And just that right there was pretty telling. So for pretty six percent chose US dollars, gold, eight percent stocks, and then the lowest,

the thirteen percent was bitcoin. But what I thought was most interesting about that is as I dug into the data behind the answers, I saw that, um, you know, the boomers and Gen X were more likely for gold, and the Gen gen X, millennials and Gen Z were more likely for bitcoin. That wasn't shocking, But the one that was was the SCS effects the socio economic and it said that the wealthy were significantly more likely than all other classes to invest in the bitcoin verses eight um.

And then the second part the low income and below poverty line significantly more likely to choose US dollars. And so that piece right there is like telling as to why we consistently have this like growing gap of income inequality. I think, yeah, for sure, man, it's definitely like that's

our assumption to that. You know, like rich people think more about investing, and they're more educated on investing, so of course they're going to choose something like bitcoin or gold or stocks or whatever than someone who's like living paycheck to paycheck and they can't afford to like hold onto investments because they're just they're not educated and they don't have the privilege I guess, to be able to sit in investments when they got bills. So that wasn't

really surprising to me. What was what was more surprising to me with with the results of like going through the full education was, by the end of it, like the poor people had choose chosen bitcoin, like on a much broader basis than the other the other options because most people just don't know about cash, they don't know about what backs dollars, they don't know that it's lost its purchasing power. So everybody across the spectrum increased to

bitcoin a lot when they're educated. But poor people also were just you know, they just need some education, and once they get educated, on how crap be the Internet of the financial system is, and what a good opportunity and um it is to kind of save in bitcoin. They'll choose it just as well as a rich person. Yeah,

that's a great point. Um. So I want to get into some of those questions that got people to change their mind, because I'm I'm imagining we have a lot of people listening who probably still aren't fully convinced, and

maybe if they get asked the same questions. But before we do, I just going back to kind of that first part um about the wealthier people were more into investing in the in the lower income people weren't, and and um, the piece I just want to kind of emphasize on that is that the reason why we kind of one of the main contributors to this income divide of rich and poor is that the wealthy invest their money. They buy real estate, they buy stocks, they buy um bitcoin, etcetera.

And those things go up in money as the Fed keeps printing, uh, they go open dollar values, um. Whereas unfortunately poor people they're just living off of wages which are continuing to purchase less and less, and then they're not buying any assets that go up in value, and so they're kind of double screwed. Um. But we are listening to the Mark Moss Show. I'm here with Brad Mills. You can find them on Twitter at Brad Mills, can m I l S. Can tweet Adam if you like

this poll. Um. And when we get back, I want to find out what some of these questions were that you think we're probably um, the most instrumental in changing people's minds, UM. And then some of the more I guess we'll say shocking types of questions and stuff like what type of entity is the Federal Reserve or or or what is backing dollars? I know I got some people stumped with those already. So we'll be back in just a second on the Mark Moa Show. Stay tuned.

All right, welcome back. You're listening to the Mark mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the decentralized revolution UM. Not just a new technology, a technological revolution that will literally change the way that humanity works. It will literally change the future. We're talking about some education pieces. The lack of education, I think is what causes a lot of people to be held back and miss these opportunities.

I'm joined by Brad Mills. You can find them at Twitter at Brad Mills can UM and he put together this poll UM and through a series of questions, was able to get some insight into kind of how people are viewing it UM and then also kind of change their perspective just by asking them questions. So, Brad, I'm jumping back into this UM. I guess what are some of the big questions that you think were maybe the big needle movers. They're like what's back in the US

dollar for example, or UM. You know, I think it was more so the because in the middle of the survey we kind of take them down the rabbit hole and we started asking them about like the stock market and how the stock market has performed over the last

few decades. And I think that's what moved the needle for the wealthier social economic classes that answered the survey, because most you know, if you've been in the stock market since the seventies, you probably would have got something crazy after Get the numbers off my head right now, but I think it's like a third X or something on your dollar invest But if you adjust that for

inflation and purchasing power, loss of purchasing purchasing power. You know, you're maybe up like three x or something, really not that impressive over forty years of sitting in the stock market. So there was that that was kind of it seemed like the number of of of wealthy people who feel confident in answering questions about the stock market and about

the financial system was really high. So a large percentage of wealthy people we're we're basically telling us that, oh, yeah, I know all about the stock market, I know about bitcoin, I know about gold. But then when we were explaining how once you would just for the drop and purchasing power, you didn't really do that good and you didn't even hold your purchasing power against gold in the last you know, thirty or forty years if you had just saved in dollars.

And it was really shocking that people, like a lot of people thought that the US dollar actually gained purchasing power over the last thirty years. Like the majority of people, um just have no clue about how the dollar loses its value and how once you once you think in purchasing power instead of dollars, you're actually treading water or not doing very good. And and then when We would

then later ask them would you believe of us? Would you believe us if we told you x, y or z. We would educate them about like the performance of the stock market. A lot of the rich people we're just resistant to accepting that what we had just told them

was the truth. But the longer we go on the survey, the more that we see people converting to this this rabbit hole of information and education or teaching them about purchasing power and wealth preservation versus just the number go up of the stock market versus the actual amount of things they can purchase with the with the money. And then by the end of it, the uh, it was pretty clear that the wealthy segment of people that answered

the survey were way overconfident. They thought they knew so much about the dollar, the stock market, and bitcoin, and then all their answers were consistently wrong. So it was hilarious to see that come out through the survey. And then by the end the wealthy people of course increased that like their answer that they would choose bitcoin, by quite a lot. The one thing that I've heard you keep saying over and over, which is um start to think about purchasing power and and I love that because

that's something that I continue to pound the table on. Um, we need to start thinking of things in terms of purchasing power, because right now everybody is thinking about things in terms of US dollars. It's, you know, the half of every transaction if you're in the United States, which most people here listening are, And so I like to ask people the question, like, right now in the US, are is real estate expensive or is it cheap? And I would ask people that question and they're like, uh well,

I'm like, well, in US dollars, it's very expensive. They've never been more expensive. But what if we priced it in gold or oil or bitcoin or something like that, Well, then homes have actually never been cheaper, and so um, you have to start thinking in terms of purchasing power. So it's uh so it's good that you could do that.

The other thing that you said that that also makes sense, and I find this true, is um, the more educated you are, Unfortunately, UM yeah, sometimes you you hold yourself back because I hear from people the more educated they are like oh I get it, I get it. I get It's like digital gold shure, yeah whatever, Oh yeah,

I get it. It's kind of like digital cash. Okay, I get it, and they think they get it, whereas like you, you've been in since two thousand eleven, I've been studying since two thousand fifteen, and I'm still trying to figure it out, right, um, And so maybe the rich are maybe too proud. I guess they're too proud to admit it or what. I think it's just confidence.

I think that there the wealthy people are like displayed a lot of confidence in their answers, but they were confidently wrong, like they were wrong more than the lower income class is Like, it was funny to see that because even the wealthy people were answering the questions about bitcoin as if they knew, like they would know the value of bitcoin, because I think one of the questions we had put up was compared to gold, like do you think bitcoin's value as pert as a market cap

is bigger than gold? Is it smaller than gold? And we give some numbers, and the wealthy segment of the surveyor respondeds. We're answering confidently that you know, pretty much, they thought they'd missed it, that bitcoin was already as valuable as gold and it was not really like much opportunity investing a bitcoin anymore, and then we would tell them in the next question, like, actually, it's got a

twenty x to go if it's gonna catch up to gold. Um, well that at the time of the survey, and now it's more like a ten x. But and I think that also increased the the you know, the the likelihood that the person was going to accept choose bitcoin now because wealthy folks, and this was across the board. People thought bitcoin had already got this big, massive run and there were too late to the game and they missed it.

And the other thing was that, um, across all social economic classes, men, women, everything, more people knew that bitcoin was not controlled by anybody than the dollar. Like people people when we asked the question about the dollar, what do you think controls printing of the US dollar? Who do you think controls monetary policy of the US dollar? More people said the wrong answer for that, But when we asked about bitcoin, more people actually said the right answer.

They said nobody. So there's kind of an interesting thing there that, like there's a lot of misinformation and confusion about the entire money system, the stock market, how dollars are made, who controls it what it's backed by, and even bitcoin there's a lot of confusion there, but people definitely consistently, once they're educated, choose bitcoin over all these other things. Stocks, bonds, come out of these real estate everything. Once they start learning, when go down the rabbit hole,

there's is good to see that. Yeah, I think maybe, Um, you know the media that constantly attacks bitcoin and they want to put out this fud, the fear uncertainty, in doubt. They constantly talk about we don't even know who the creator was, you know, who's Tosi nakamotive as he disappeared. So they've probably helped a little bit on that side educating there, But on the stuff that's that's really important, Um,

they they they've lacked obviously. I keep thinking about you know Henry Ford's quote a hundred years ago that said, if the if the people knew how the banking system worked, there would be a revolution before the morning, like they wouldn't wait to like like literally it happened overnight or

before the morning came. And um, so then I just think, well, you know, with this lack of education, as we can see from your poll, um, people have either been intensively misled or withheld information from the worst case, you know, where they've been straight out lied to UM. But I want to jump into a couple more questions that you have on this UM. You're you're listening to the Mark Moa Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the

decentralized Revolution. I'm here with Brad Mills who put together this survey to find out what people know about bitcoin and just the financial system overall. You can find them at Brad Mills can on Twitter UM number one, Mark Moss on Twitter UM. Send us a message, ask a question. We'll make sure to get back to you on that. When we come back, we're gonna talk about some of these specific questions that can maybe change your mind. We'll see if you can stump you on a few, so

we'll be right back. All right, Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Moss Show, and we are talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the decentralized revolution. We're talking about something so new, so revolutionary that it's literally going to change the way the world works. And if you're not paying attention, it might end up bad for you. But if you're paying attention, it could be one of

the biggest opportunities of your life. I'm joined here with Brad Mills at Brad mills Can on Twitter UM, and we're talking about a pull that he recently ran, UM asking people questions about the financial system and about bitcoin UM. And then well some of the answers were what some of the shocking things were and how people change their mind? UM. Brad, you were talking about UM asking people about the performance

of assets. UM. I see one of the questions here was you know, what do you think was a better investment asset over the last ten years? UM? And it's almost half the people thought gold UM. Almost people said the stock market UM, and even fifteen people thought cash UM, which is pretty amazing to me because I mean bitcoin has averaged a two compounded annual growth rate over the last ten years UM. And it seems like that's like pretty well known, Like you see it. Even the news

is talking about it. Today's uh, you know, it's it's kind of everywhere. Was that one shocking for you, No, because it just goes to show that not many people think really too hard about what backs money and the relative value of bitcoin or anything really versus other things. It's a really foreign concept. Most people just just kind of like money is just part of their live and

they don't actually look deeply into it. So that was that was not surprising for me to see that, but it is it is really heartening again for me to see that, like once these people do get educated. Like in the next question, um, we asked them about what do they think bitcoin's worth? Because like, no, like to only twelve percent of the people that were asked that question, like chose the right answer that they only twelve percent of the people realized that bitcoin was the best investment

over the last decade. So ten percent of the people just had no twelve percent of the people just had no clue that bitcoin was was doing so well compared to even the U. S. Stock market and gold and you know, the dollar. So in the next question, that's when we asked them, well, how much do you think bitcoin is worth? Like do you think bitcoin's worth the size of the real estate market, the size of the

gold market, which is eight trillion dollars. And then so many people thought bick when was was overvalued by a significant margin, Like barely anybody knew that bitcoin was such

a good opportunity right now. I like the way that you asked that question though, because you've you've framed it, right, So you said, if all the cash money in the world is worth eighty trillion, if the gold is worth eight trillion, right, if if real estates worth two trillion, then what do you think all the bitcoin in the world is worth? Um? Right, So you kind of you kind of preframed it, Yeah, trying to give them a little idea like the these this thing is worth this,

this thing is this big. How do you think bitcoin performs here? Yeah? It was. Well. The reason why I think that's important is, you know, if we were in Silicon Valley. I know you're a you're a VC investor, you're investing into a lot of these early stage bitcoin companies. And if we were, you know, in in Silicon Valley a decade ago, and people were pitching this on uber, which most people, you know a lot of people have turned down. You're trying to figure out like what is

it going to be worth? And you would look at like, well, what are the markets that it's going to disrupt? So, you know, taxi industry is this big Limon industry is this big h you know van right here is this big and if we can get five percent of each you know, we could have this market share, um. And so you kind of have to get that context. And

that's kind of what you did in this question. Most people probably have no idea that there's two hundred trillion dollars sitting in real estate, and a lot of people probably don't want to be landlords. They only put it there because it's losing money in the bank. Um. We're saying,

with eighty trillion in cash. When you start to look at you know, four hundred tillion dollars worth of debt or whatever, um, all of a sudden, then you go, we'll shoot, bitcoin is actually tiny, Like it's actually like super undervalued. I guess yeah. And that's why we saw

people such a crazy difference. And from the beginning when we asked the question, the realm Paul inspired question, to the end of the survey, after giving them all this information, given them the comparing bitcoin to all the things that they're familiar with but never looked deeply into. By the end of the survey, the like across the board, everybody was choosing bitcoin like twice as much or three times as much UM. And most of it, most of the

difference came from cash. A lot of people just decided, well, actually, I don't want to hold the cash for ten years, I want some bitcoin. Um. Gold kind of held up for sure, like people still wanted some stocks and some gold, but it was a majority of the difference in the the the answer came from people dropping cash and picking up some bitcoin, and it was um. Surprisingly, gen zs, the younger people who were one of the biggest demographics

that didn't realize what a good opportunity bitcoin was. And it was obviously like boomers. That's what everybody assumes that Boomers just don't get the new tech. They're into gold, um, They're into real estate and stuff like that. Stocks, so that was obvious from the beginning. The Boomers were very like low compared to the other generations to choose bitcoin.

But after going through the survey, one of the most surprising things that came out of this, honestly was the idea that like the Boomers that went through the sermon survey, they change their answer at a ray that was faster than bigger and more impactful than any of the other generations. So there was like a three sevent increase from the beginning to the end in the boomer demographic, so it kind of goes contrary contrary to the assumption that most

of us have a butt like boomers not. You know, just let's just forget about educating the boomers, like like Gray Scale runs the drop gold campaign, which is trying to like convince the boomers to get rid of their gold, and you know, I think from the results of the survey, that might actually not be the best approach here, because based on this survey result, if you just educate and take them down the rabbit hole and show them what a good opportunity bitcoin is and how well it's done

over the last decade and how it's poised to catch up to gold, I think they'll just naturally kind of get that and they'll they'll start to align with bitcoin, rather than we come out come at them with adversarial like drop bitcoin, you boomer. You know, let's let's just try a little bit more to educate them and be a little bit uh more convince singing our arguments and maybe not trying to piss them off. I don't know, that might help. Yeah, that's a that's a good point.

I like the question where you said, you know, if if bitcoin succeeds. Do you think it could ever increase to be worth the same amount as gold? Now before before I say what the answer was on that, we we do know that both JP Morgan and City Bank have both put out guidance, both of them saying that they think bitcoin will overtake gold. Um per this survey of people think that it could overtake or be worth

as much or overtake gold. And so just to kind of put that into perspective for everybody listening, that's about a ten x from here today, I mean approximately right, So I mean that's a JP Morgan and City Bank both think that. About more than half of the survey respondents thought that as well. And so I know a lot of people think, um, they've missed the boat. It's too late. I think a lot of these UH marketers are saying, get the next bitcoin, right, get the next one.

But like per JP Morgan, City Bank and over half of these respondents, um, they could go up ten x from here. Yeah. And actually I ran the survey a while ago and it was at this point I think it was like twenty or thirty x or something even. So as as bitcoin keeps going up, what we've seen is definitely more people are dropping gold and they're choosing bitcoin.

It's it's you can see it in the charts. So this is kind of playing out, and I wonder if it's uh, I wonder what strategy is more effective at at that. Is it like you know, like Michael Sailor debating the gold bugs and stuff, or in gray scale

running the drop gold campaign. Is that really effective at converting people to switch over to gold or is it really just the number go up technology that bitcoin has installed and it's just just a lot of fomo from these folks who are now like waking up to the idea that Okay, maybe this is digital gold and I gotta look into it, and they're just going and getting

educated on it versus the adversarial like drop gold, you boomer. Yeah, Well, I think I think the answer is it depends and so per your data, differences in age, income level, and even sex um respond differently, and so I think, you know, bitcoin needs lots of different people talking about lots of different things, and then people will find kind of the areas that they kind of gravitate towards UM based off

of that UM. And I call Bitcoin the great bait and switch because most people come in for the number go up technology right, for the tow to make money. But once they come in they start learning about it. Um. Then they've been bathed in by the by the money going up, and then they get they get switched into learning that it can actually fix the world. It can fix the money, print, take away the money, printer, fix the money, fix the world, and so much more. Um,

you're listening to the Mark mo Show. I got Brad mills on at Brad mills can We're talking about this bitcoin survey, bitcoin education. I want to talk about, um, what's growing on top of bitcoin when we come back. Um, it's not just about money. It's not just digital cast, not just digital gold. It's more than that. So we're gonna be back in just one minute to talk about that,

and so stay tuned. All right, welcome back. You're listening to the Mark Moa Show, and we are talking about bitcoin and the decentralized revolution, which is something so big. Not just a new technology, not the iPhone, not Uber Airbnb. We're talking about technological revolution that will change the way the world works, kind of like electricity. It wasn't just a digital candle. I mean it was, but it became so much more. And that's what we're sitting on right

now now when we're talking about bitcoin. UM. I know a lot of people, and we talked about earlier before the break about your poll and maybe the more educated people are, they tend to maybe be overconfident, and oh, I get it. I get it's like digital cash or digital goal that whatever. I don't need that right, um, But but it's so much more. Just like just like electricity was a digital candle, it was that, or the internet was a way to send electronic messages, it became

so much more. Um. One thing that I've been seeing and I'm actually super encouraged by, is we're starting to see the bitcoin network itself be a network that we're seeing new technologies being built on. So for example, about a month ago in Dallas, there was a hackathon and someone like came up with like a phone that could

like call over the like bitcoin network. Um, there's a couple like communities that are being built on there now where people are chatting, um, streaming, you know, content things like that. What do you think about like the future of these these new types of technologies being built on the Bitcoin network. So I am. I mean earlier you said I was like a VC, right, I don't know

if that's a dirty word. Like sometimes I get a bit of cognitive distance because like I came from poverty, and I don't really have like that type of an educational background or anything. I really came from like you know, low income, uh, poor family on the East coast to Canada, or it's high unemployment and stuff. And bitcoin was my kind of my escape from all of that because I started like I was an entrepreneur, so I you know, I started hustling and making money and I so I

have an entrepreneurial mind. And when I started making money, I started like looking at this as well, what am I going to invest in? Like, I guess I should get some stocks because that's what rich people do. And uh, I'm like, but stocks are a Ponzi scheme. I don't want to buy any stocks. And and it was like around the time after the financial crisis, you know, the two eight so I got really kind of down the rabbit hole with like libertarianism and Ron Paul and gold

and all of that. So what I really wanted to do was angel invest and um, so I started taking some of my profits from my company where I was an entrepreneur and I wanted to invest in other people that have good ideas and and just kind of support people and see people build out their vision. So it took me ten years, but now I'm doing that thanks

to bitcoin. And my mission with my angel investing and VC activities is I don't really want to do this like the Silicon Valley type of VC where they're just they're just like trying to get into these rounds and they know they're going to dump it on the public markets and to go public and make unicorns and get a thousand X. I really care, like kind of like what you were just saying, I really care about seeing entrepreneurs build on bitcoin and and show the world what

bitcoin can do. So what I'm doing is kind of like I'm kind of donating really like it's all the way I look at it, like, I'm just I'm just doing my duty as a bitcoiner. Two seed companies and invest in bitcoin entrepreneurs who are resisting the urge to go issue, and I c o or go issue with token, and they're resisting that urge and they're staying true to the mission of bitcoin because all the stuff that's happening over in crypto world and on ethereum and all these blockchains.

That's all possible on bitcoin, and you can do it without a token. But all the flashing lights and all the Silicon Valley money and all this hedge fund money, it's going. Most of it is going towards the crypto stuff because there's all this foamo there. It's like dot com two point oh. So what I like to see is all these bitcoiners that are becoming wealthy and and having their lives changed because they're their their conviction on bitcoin. I like to see them investing in bitcoin only companies.

And it's been great man Like the last year especially, you got bitcoin er ventures, Trammel Venture Partners, um. You've got funds or charities like Brink, Bitcoin Open Sets, the Human Rights Foundation, Um, there's Alice Alice uh. Block Stream from block Stream's got a fund. Now there's thirty one they There's there's like institutional investment going into bitcoin startups.

So it is really good to see that bitcoiners are kind of starting their own angel investing syndicates and venture capital groups and stuff to really direct capital and allocate resources towards bitcoin entrepreneurs building on bitcoin. So I do think that over the next few years we're gonna kind of see what's coming out of this. Like you've got things like Lolly and Fold and things that are like consumer apps. You've got like Strike who's building out with

the peer to peer cash through the Lightning network. And it's probably gonna be a unicorn someday because Jack Mallers is just a beast. But then you've got um other things like you were mentioning, like interesting other use cases for Bitcoin. You've got third layers like entrepreneurs and bitcoin developers and stuff are building like the Fabric protocol and and these other layers on top of Bitcoin that are

interoperable with Lightning, Like that's years away. You've got people who are building out bitcoin as an identity management system to like be the new Internet, Like you could build a new Internet on bitcoin with a third layer type of solution. So none of this stuff needs tokens. Bitcoin is the money, Bitcoin is the asset and the network. And entrepreneurs that want to build on bitcoin, they used to have basically a choice of like going broke selling

their bitcoin, missing the upside of bitcoin. To try to build on bitcoin but thankfully now there's lots of angel investors and stuff that are willing to fun bitcoin businesses and you can see some of them on Bank to the Future and sites like that. So yeah, as far as like really cool useful I mean really cool unique apps and stuff like that, most of its financial stuff right now, there is some things like cool stuff like Adam Curry is doing that that podcasting technology on Lightning Network.

A bunch of node running companies, um Gallowie Money is doing something pretty interesting. They're doing like credit unions on bitcoin through the Lightning Network, where communities kind of have like bitcoin banks and nodes and they connect to the credit union basically like they connect to the Bitcoin credit union sort of thing that they're setting up. I mean, this is this is like just the tip of the iceberg for how big bitcoin can get and how decentralized

we can even make it even more. So I'm just excited to see it. Like it kind of sucks to see all the fra seen this happening over on on the crypto side because it's a lot of dot com two point oh bubbly nonsense. But then we got you know, Jack from Twitter and uh, big companies like that that are that are actually like aligning with the mission of bitcoin, has peer to peer, decentralized cash, and a sound money, like Austrian type of sound money. So it's really good

to see like that type of UM. They're they're not just doing it for money, They're doing it for altruistic reasons and principled reasons. So I'm more excited by seeing that uptick than i am by like some unicorn company that might go with thousand next on the stock market

or something like that. Well, I think the problem is that, you know, with the I c O craze as you kind of referred to UM, it's pretty easy for somebody to go UM launch a token and go raised twenty million bucks to go build out a project, but to build an application that goes on top of the Bitcoin protocol.

Because there is no UM token, you can't just go get twenty million dollars out at than air and so then you're forced to kind of go the traditional route, which is get the friends and family, get the angels, get the get the venture capitalist, et cetera to invest into your company. So it's, uh, it's the older, more, more, you know, more older model UM that just it. It takes longer, but of course all good things take time, UM,

and so UM rushing out to build UM. You know your own token isn't probably the best long term sustainable option UM. But that's great, Brad. I agree. I mean, there's so much good things going on. I think it's going to change the world, and I think it's gonna be bigger than most people even realize. But you're listening to the markma Show each week where I talk about bitcoin and I talk about this decentralized revolution, really trying

to give you, UM the asymmetric information. That's information most people don't know, so you can have the asymmetric opportunity the upside that most people won't have. UM. I'm just joined with Brad Mills. You can find them on Twitter at Brad Mills. Can UM send him a message, send him a question? UM one Mark Moss on Twitter also add me and send me a question, Brad. Anything you want to direct people to while I got you last minute? Yeah? Thanks.

I just finished this short film that is everybody's been talking about it on Twitter and in my personal life. It's called this Machine Greens dot com and it's a really well done short film by a filmmaker friend of mine, Jamie King, that talks about the truth behind the bitcoin energy conversation, so you can get a bit bit more educated on that you know, a bitcoin is bad for the environment, myth that everybody seems to be falling for this machine, greens. Go check it out. And that's it.

Thanks so much, Brad, We'll see you later. Thank you. With that, I gotta wrap it up. Thanks for listening to The Mark Mosch Show.