The Mark Moss Show Mar 11, 2022

I think you can fill in the blank there. Um. Anyway, you can find them on Twitter at Dennis Underscore Porter Underscore A little bit tough anyway, Dennis, thanks so much for joining me in the studio today. Pumped to be here with you, Mark, Um, I'm ready to get into it today. Nice. Nice. You know, Um, you know, the decentralized Revolution. I talk a lot about how technology changes

the world. It changes the way that we communicate, change the way that we organized, and so that's what really, you know, creates all these shifts as you go back through thousands of years of history. Um, and this decentralized revolution is a big piece of it. You know. Bitcoin is like a thread that weaves through every area of society, and so for each of us a kind of attaches to us a little bit differently. For myself, it's kind of like the historical narrative side of monetary um and

it's and it's and it's like politics. So I kind of like the politics and the and the history side UM and so that's what I tend to talk about in regards to bitcoin and UM. You two. It seems like, right, you're you like to kind of focus on it from

like the political side. Yeah. Absolutely. When I first jumped in, you know, I think I got into it for the you know, fix the money, fixed the world aspect, like we all did, you know, number go up was great, But eventually I started to really hyper focus on the impact that bitcoin would have politically across the United States and across the globe. I have a small background in politics, so you know, I've helped I was trained as a campaign manager. I ran several campaigns, did some behind the

scenes work, UM did some opposites and research. Helped four candidates win their primaries. Hoping to get my fifth this year as well, to be five for five. But I just really see that the United States could significantly benefit from a more popular bitcoin approach from the political spectrum. So just fighting every day to make sure that we are part of the future instead of the past when

it comes to bitcoin in America. Yeah, I know, you and I we traded quite a few messages on Twitter, like a week ago or whatever talking about that, and I think I made the statement that it's, uh, it's really anti I see it as like, uh, some people call it a political, almost calling it like anti political. Um, it's neutral. I mean it's a it's a protocol. Right.

It's like saying, like a screw driver's political. Right. If I stabbed the right wing person, then it's a left wing tool, and if I stabbed the left wing person as the right wing tool. Um, I look at it as a political anti political. Uh. You don't necessarily agree with that kind of give me your your thought process on that to this. You know, in some ways we agree, Mark, I really agree with this idea that bitcoin is a political I don't think it has sides. I don't think

it associates with one party in particular. I'm more so see it as a tool. But as a tool, we're going to see it have massive implications or massive a massive impact on politics. We can already see the way that it's impacting the mid terms, and I think it will go on to continue to be a major issue in American politics today. I think that, you know, essentially, what's the point of bitcoin, right, destroying the money printer and giving it back to the people, that's a very

political movement. So I just see bitcoin, although it is very a political that it will have a massive ramification on the way that politics is done, not only here but across the world. And you know, people try oftentimes get mad at me, right, like, you know, stay away from politics. We don't need to be involved in government. But I want to make sure that my country, the United States, moves forward. I want to be forward on

this issue. And in order for us to do that in the next five to ten years, we're gonna have to be friends with legislators, We're gonna have to be friends with policymakers. And I want to make sure that the United States is in a position to benefit from this technology and benefit from the move of the miners

leaving China and coming to America. If we aren't careful, we could end up in a situation where we end up banning bitcoin mining or banning bitcoin, and that would make us a lot more like the CCP, and I personally want to be a lot more like elsavad or. Yeah, I certainly don't want to be like the CCP, that's

for sure. You know. The one thing I think about, though, like in in that is that, Um, first off, today we've seen this situation where like freedom now is like some fringe right wing ideal, right like freedom like to me. So I guess I guess some of it's like semantics or the way that you look at things like I don't look at freedom as like political ideology, like it's just freedom right like Um, so I guess when when you think about it in terms of like bitcoin and

bitcoin gives me freedom to transact. Um, I guess freedom today seems like a right wing ideology, but um, I don't see it that way. So I guess some of

it is that. But then also back to just even more political um you know, I know as you've been diving into the political side more, um, you do have It was what really kind of sparked that off, I think was Ted Cruz was talking about, um, how the liberals want to take away and he I guess he kind of made that statement and kind of pitted the two against each other, right where the liberals want to censor you and tell you what you can do. Bitcoin

gives you the opportunity get around that. So that's now it's right wing, right, But then you have I know, you've been working with like Erica Rhodes and she's a Democrat and she's running on bitcoin. So uh, from that standpoint, then it is a political I guess yeah. But I like Ted Cruz and I like that he's been forward in the sense that I like that he's been forward on the issue of bitcoin. I think he has been one of the strongest advocates recently, and he's done a

great job of speaking about it. There was just that one line, you know, you know, the left doesn't like bitcoin because they can't control it, And I just really want to make sure that we as a country and we as a people stay away from that kind of

partisan politics around bitcoin. Um, obviously bitcoin in this sense is very political, but really we've got to be careful with the part is an aspect of this bit of bitcoin as an issue, and the main reason why we want to do that is so that we don't get into a situation where one party is constantly fighting back

against this technology. That will result in a world where fifty of the time we are fighting back as an industry and as holders against bad policy, whereas if both parties were working together in tandem, that would mean that we're fighting aggressively competing for better policy. Each party is like trying to outdo each other, so it's a fifty percent of the time fighting bad policy or a hundred percent of the time competing over better policy kind of situation.

But yeah, I've seen a lot of Democrats getting on board. There's this narrative that Republicans own bitcoin in the sense that they are more in align with bitcoin than others, and I just don't think that's true. There was a report put out recently that six of bitcoin and digital asset holders are Democrat voters. I just think that the party as a whole, the actual legislators, have done a

better job of getting in front of this issue. But mostly then my opinion, that has to do with this idea that for a few reasons one, Republicans are the party out of power, and the party out of power is always looking for ways to change or overcome the status quo, and bitcoin is an obvious way to overcome the status quo. Um, and it's a way to kind of give a you know, a pushback on the federal government, and Republicans are naturally very anti federal government more in

line with its rights. But we are seeing very large push from Democrats. We've seen ten Democrats, led by Darren Soto and Rokana write a letter to Nancy Pelosi to say, we do not agree with the cryptotax reporting Amendment and we do not want this kind of legislation pushed forward in this country. So yeah, working with all sorts of Democrats because I think it's key that we make sure

that we maintain this as a bipartisan issue. Yeah, you know, I was saying, I think, um back to the a political versus what I've been saying is like anti political in a sense where um, you know, I Alex Fetzki and I just got together did a book Sprint and we wrote a book which we're having a Kickstarter campaign launch next week Uncommunist dot com. By the way, go

check that out on commist dot com. But we basically took the Communist Manifesto, which is only four chapters, eight thousand words, it's like a forty five minute pamphlet, and we we rewrote it and we said that in that book Karl Marks put the struggle between classes, the rich versus the poor. Um. Hitler put the struggle between races, right, um, And we said that that's all wrong. Um. Instead of uh, instead of left or right or red or blue, Democrat Republican,

it's individuals versus collectivists. So really it's the people versus the government. And almost like politics is meant to divide the people. And so what we said is that the struggle is between classes or politics. The struggle is between the individual and the collective is always trying to pull

them into groups. And so I guess that's what I say when I think about like a political Um, the source of the political party's power comes from that money and that money printer, and uh, I believe that if we take away the money printer, then we would see the size of the government shrink way down. We'd see the politics shrink way down. And that's why I would call it like the death of politics into politics, because

we don't need to be partisan on these things. It's like, look, we're just all individuals, um, trying to do the best that we can against this state apparatus kind of a thing. Um, you're just tuning in you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about if you haven't guessed it, Bitcoin. We're talking about the intersection of politics, finance, and technology, which of course is bitcoin, is the decentralized revolution. I'm in the studio with Dennis porter Um. You can find him

on on Twitter at Dennis Underscore porter underscore Um. You can also find him as a host of the podcast Smart People Deep. You can figure that out. We're talking about these topics. We have a lot more to dig into. I want to talk about executive actions that are potentially coming. I want to talk about what countries will adopt it next, and so much more. Don't go away over you right back, all right, welcome back. You're listening to the Mark mo Show.

We're talking about the intersection of politics, finance, and technology. We're talking about the decentralized revolution that is changing the world. Of course, that's bitcoin that is doing that. I'm in the studio with Dennis porter and we're talking about politics

and UH and tech. Before the break, I was kind of going on a rant and Dennis didn't get a chance to reply to that, but I was talking about this UH, this book on communist dot com that's Fetzky and I wrote, and the strung go between the individual and the and the and the collectivist or the group. And so that's kind of why my view is anti political.

What do you think about that? You know, I would say that when you're talking about bitcoin, um and it's interaction with the state from the perspective that democrats might not like it because or socialists might not like it because you know, bitcoin kind of erodes the state or

pushes back on the state. I think ultimately for most people there there's this over attribution that democrats love the state and that they're just in love with this power that they have, when I think in reality, they see the state as a tool, very much like we see bitcoin as a tool, and it's the you know, to them, the best means possible for them to help the average

person and to help the individual. You and me know, I think and agree that it's not necessarily really shouldn't be used as a tool to help the individual ends up you know, getting corrupt, having all these money problems. But now all I'm talking to a lot of my Democrat friends who are bitcoiners, and they see bitcoin as a better tool and a real tool that can actually help those individuals in you know, historically left behind communities, um,

disenfranchised groups. And so I think Republicans people on the right, and Democrats and on the left they want to help the individual they just go about it from different ways. Some like to use government and the other ones you know, kind of don't. Yeah, I would agree with you on that. Um. I've talked to many of my friends who were on the opposite side of the spectrum and we can both kind of see the same problem. Um, but it's just different solutions to that. So I would agree with that.

Now back to kind of as you were saying, it's you know, more and more politics getting into it. We have Republicans like Ted Cruz, and we have people Democrats on the left like Erica who I had on the radio show I think two weeks ago. Um, and you have what what I'm seeing. And I'm curious your take on this, but um, was it The mayor of a New York City ran on like a pro bitcoin stance and he's gonna make bitcoin capital of the World or whatever, and then all of a sudden he wants to ban

bitcoin mining. And it's like almost like this bait and switch then we had Erka on and and I love what she's doing. I especially love that she wants to replace Brad Sherman because I really like to see him out of there. But she's running on like a pro welfare stance, and it's like, how does bitcoin doesn't really work with pro welfare? So like, um, I guess do you see some danger? I guess I should say, do you think there's some danger into these politicians co opting

bitcoin and then kind of do this bait and switch. Yeah. Absolutely, I think that's always a danger for any sort of political movement to make sure that it's not co opted for me, regardless of you know, someone like Erica Rhodes, whether she comes through on her promise to protect bitcoin.

The biggest thing that we're doing in that race is making sure that we eliminate Brad Sherman and then we send a message to UM those in d C that we're not going to put up with guys like Brad Sherman trying to attack and destroy the opportunity for the America to move forward on bitcoin. So yeah, there is oftentimes some things I think that people, you know, they

they interact with bitcoin, they like it. UM and they don't understand that some of the goals that they want to accomplish, some of the ends that they want to pursue, really just are not an alignment with Bitcoin. And I just leave that up for them to learn on their own, right, because it's kind of impossible to change their minds on

some of those issues. Yeah, I think they will, you know, um as you know, um, being in the bitcoin space, like bitcoin changes you and it's you know, like once you get into bitcoin, it it starts you start looking at the world to dose like orange colored lenses and everything just looks differently. I think we've seen that most

recently with the President Boukaylie and Nel Salvador. I mean from where I see, I saw what he was talking about and doing when he first kind of came on the scene to where he's at now, it seems like he's been totally changed. So to your point, I think, you know, with the Erica Rhodes, etcetera, like they'll they'll they'll get it more and more now, um switching gears a little bit. Um. I liked what you said there. Right, It wakes up Washington to like, hey, this is what

the people want. One of the biggest objections I have heard to bitcoin is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, the government's going to make it illegal. And I've often said that, yeah, well, if a billion people don't want it to be illegal, it ain't gonna be illegal kind of a thing. Um, it seems like maybe one of the biggest attack vectors that I might see coming. Not really have an inside knowledge, maybe you do, but one of the biggest attack victors

that I see coming is maybe on custody. So Biden admitts Bien edmund and announce they're gonna do some executive actions to regulate it. The Treasury told us that as well, and then we had Rep. Davidson of Ohio put this bill together keep your Coins at kind of thing. So maybe he sees that attack vector. What do you think about that? I think that the ability to self custody is definitely one of the biggest attack vectors for users.

You have two physical links to the bitcoin world, right, which is the users and the miners, and those are the two things that we really need to be pushing to protect as much as possible. So I'm every day I wake up and I'm trying to push that goal forward.

I'm trying to make sure that we protect the right to self custody, that we protect the rights to pure to pure transactions, but that we also protect and incentivize the growth of industry here in regards to bitcoin mining, because bitcoin miners, you know, as as we saw China, they can get banned, they can get moved out, coders

can code around law pretty easily. By bitcoin mining is a very physical thing in the sense that it takes up a geographical space that uses electricity from utility companies. It's very difficult to hide. So um, I think it's very critical that we protect those two things. But I have been very encouraged by what's going on to d C. As you said, Warren Davidson, putting for the k y

c Applete called done keep your coins. Not know your customer right, but uh keep your coins to protect yourself custody, protect the right to pure to pure transactions. We need to make sure that as Americans in the United States that we have leaders like this, that we're going to them and showing them that we support them by writing letters to other legislators and saying, hey, get behind this bill. We need to show up to events they get behind this bill. We need to donate to Warren Davidson. We

need to contribute to his campaign. We need to make sure that this guy feels like he's got support behind him, so that when the going gets tough, he knows that he can keep pushing forward. And that's why I want to make sure that bitcoiners wake up and realize the importance of being active. We've we've gotten into this place in this country where it's like, oh, my vote doesn't matter, nothing matters that That's exactly what they want you to feel.

That's what they want you to think, because when you become apathetic, you're actually handing over power. So I know stuff can be tough to get done in politics, but we are one of the most entrenched voter groups and I think human history, we're gonna be the richest voter

block in American history for obvious reasons. But we're also highly morally incentivized to protect and defend bitcoin, which I'm sure you've talked a lot about the moral and social impact of why we need to adopt bitcoins, so I'm not sure you need to explain that too much to

your listeners. But it's been very encouraging to see Warren Davidson moved forward on this, and we've also seen I think it was Rep. Emmer Right a bill to ban cbdc s. I mean, who would have thought two years ago that we would be writing to ban CBDCs and not bitcoin. Everybody was predicting we'd band bitcoin, So I

didn't see that one. That's that's pretty amazing. Um. Yeah, you know, I like to say that we vote with our money right, our money as our most effective vote, and so to your point, kind of getting behind these people showing our support for that, which then means more people hopefully would run on those same platforms as well.

I would say a little bit kind of to what you said though about um, my vote doesn't count and the apathy, Um, I think that's probably never I've I've personally never felt that as much as I did in this last election. It seems like we're I think the idea of ever voting ourselves out of this is a little ridiculous. Um. I and I come from a strong political family. My parents were grassroots political. As a kid, we still discussed politics at the table. Um, But it

just seems like it's kind of worthless. But that being said, I will go out swinging and whether I think my whether I think my vote is going to be effective or not. I am still going to place it because it may be the only thing that I have. UM. You're listening to the Mark Moas Show. We're talking about If you haven't guess, we're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the intersection of politics, finance and technology. We're talking

about the decentralized revolution that is changing the world. I'm in the studio with Dennis Porter. You can find them on Twitter at Dennis Underscore Porter Underscore and I'm on Twitter at one Mark Moss. So send us a message, tell us you heard us, asks a question. I got a lot more to go through. I want to talk about UM, legal tender countries. Who's next. I want to talk about more about governments doing bitcoin marketing and so much more. We'll be back in a second. Don't go away, everyone,

Welcome back. You are listening to another episode of the Mark mos Show where we talk about the decentralized revolution. We talk about the intersection of politics, finance and technology. Of course, we're talking about bitcoin. UM in the studio with Dennis Porter. You can find them on Twitter at Dennis Underscore Porter underscore and uh yeah, we're talking about we're talking about bitcoin and politics and how it fits in.

Before the break, we were just talking about how, um, we should support politicians who are kind of pro I would just say pro freedom, but pro bitcoin um. And I was saying that maybe even if you are apathetic and you don't think that it is that effective, you should still do everything that you can. And so that's

that's definitely that um. But I guess back to the question, and maybe you don't know, maybe it's just a hunch, but do you think that like when it comes to so Biden announced an announcement of announcement right, an announcement that we're going to have executive orders and we're gonna do something, and the Treasury says we have these powers. I mean, do you think that's where they go? It's

the custody piece. Well, with the Biden executive order, it's it is definitely one of those things where there is no real inside knowledge on what's going to be dropped. They they've been having a people have been calling in an Obama level of of carefulness when it comes to

the information. There some administrations are very good at keeping this information under wraps and some are not UM and this administration has been particularly well um position to make sure that they don't have any leaks on what's coming from the executive order. What we do know is just what they've been telling us that they're gonna order for new groups to be formed to go investigate crypto and bitcoin and figure out what they want to do. So it's I wouldn't tell if if anything, I would just

tell people don't worry too much. I think it's more of like we're gonna go investigate bitcoin. Is kind of like the premise of this next to move from Biden's administration. Yeah, one thing I was thinking about, you know, when I was spent the last to ours talking about the the sanctions.

But I mean, we obviously saw what happened in Canada with the truckers and people who donated, and then then obviously world stage, you know, Russia, Canadas at Russia, Ukraine, UM, and uh, you know, there's articles all over the place saying that they're gonna use cryptocurrencies to evade sanctions, and I'm like, yeah, so pretty much anything other than the US dollar and swift is evading sanctions. So if they were to use their oil or their gold or their wheat.

I mean that also of aged sanctions too, So it's kind of like trying to like put this boogeyman onto onto cryptocurrencies when the reality is anything outside of their system is sanction, is getting around sanctions, right, Yeah, I mean I was talking to Matthew Pines. I brought him on the show. He's a fellow at the Bitcoin Policy Institute,

and he's also a national security expert. But he had a very specific take on this, and it was that bitcoins just really isn't big enough to avoid sanctions, Like this thing is a tiny little asset, and compared to what the Russian economy looks like, I think they move like half of bitcoins entire mar market h market market cap within like a matter of like a month or so. So it just wouldn't really function for them to be able to evade sections. And we all know, let's not

let's not kid ourselves. The bitcoin blockchain is very transparent. You can see what's going on if they were to go into bitcoin, and then how are they going to get back out? What's the off ramp they're gonna use. They're not allowed to use any of the other off rams, so it just doesn't really function as a way to escape these sanctions. In fact, it's been a great tool for the Ukrainians to raise money. They've raised over fifty million dollars in bitcoin alone to help support the troops

in Ukraine. So, if anything, bitcoin has been a tool to help the people that are being oppressed versus the folks that are doing uh, you know, going out and committing war crimes essentially. Now, um, we've seen obviously we already mentioned El Salvador in President Bukayley down there. It's amazing what's going on down there. Um. I've been down there doing stuff with them. I mean, it's just so

much hope is in the air. It's amazing. Um. You know, the United States is uh is a beautiful place if you can just kind of your paradigm and stop thinking about the bad stuff. I mean, it's amazing and a good el sowad Or and it's extremely poor, very very very poor. Um, but there's just hope in the air. And so there's that. Um. But you made a comment

about more countries adopting it as legal tender. Now I did see there was a headline I think a city a city in Switzerland, I think said they were going to adopt as legal tender. We've seen in Arizona, and I've seen you've been reporting. I mean Arizona put a bill I think to make it a tender. A governor in Texas is like running on a bill to make it legal tender. Um, what are your I guess what are your What are your predictions? What are your predictions

for more nation states happening in? What do you think about that? Yeah, I'm I'm getting very strong signals from some you know, what people would call sources. I know that word is like thrown around loosely in this industry, but from people that know better than myself. I am getting very strong signals that there are going to be multiple nations, mostly smaller nations. Obviously we're not talking about, uh, the United States or Russia or China adopting bitcoin is

legal tender. Uh, something probably a little bit bigger than Al Salvador is what I'm getting the impression. Um. But really, what I'm most excited about is what's going on in the United States. That's like my main focus right is making sure that we adopt bitcoin as legal tender here in America and We've already seen that Senator Wendy Rogers from Arizona has introduced a bill to make bitcoin legal tender, and we've also seen in Texas Don Haffinds is running

on bitcoin legal tender as one of his key issues. Now, whether or not these things will actually get past in the in the first shot doesn't take away or dissuade from the fact that this is an incredible moment. We are now pushing to make bitcoin legal tender in the United States of America, the country that everybody thought would be the absolute last place to adopt bitcoin. It's completely

shattering all of those narratives. And now we also have one in calif Mornia as well, bitcoin legal tender bill being crafted and being put forward, And that's the one that I'm most excited about because now it also it also shatters the narrative that this is a Republican issue and that Republicans are going to lead on this. We have Democrats in blue states, we have Republicans and red states pushing for bitcoin legal tender, and I couldn't be

more excited about the developments to come. Uh the one in California in particular, I'm very excited about because that is a legitimate effort. I don't really I'm not connected to what's going on in Arizona or Texas, but I know what's going on in California, and that is a very legitimate bill. And there's a lot of excitement and a lot of energy and a lot of people getting

behind that bill. What do you mean it's very legitimate in a sense, it's not a PR stunt some you know, because these things could be PR stunts from other elected officials. We don't know. There's no way to know what their true intention is. Are they just because any legislator can write a bill and submit it and be like, look what I did, right? But are they actually gonna fight for it? Are they gonna wake up and try to get it through committee? Are they going to bring it

to how a floor vote? Are they going to make sure and you know, talk to other legislators and get their support. We don't. We don't know that. There's no way to know that. But I personally am a part of what's going on in California, and we do know that. We do know that this is a legitimate effort. It is going to be pushed forward through committee. There are going to be efforts to make sure that we make it a bipartisan bill, and we are going to make sure that it gets to a floor vote as well.

So it's being put together by someone credible and there's some support behind it. A lot of times you'll see like a freshman put together a bill that has no support or whatever. But this is like a someone good to put it together. It's good support for it, That's exactly it. And I'm very close to what's going on with this bill in particular, and I'm very excited about the potential to have California be the first state in the nation to move forward on bitcoin legal tender. Mm hmm.

What about the tax problems though? So if anybody who's not aware, right, you have to pay tax every single time you spend cryptocurrency. It's a taxable event, and so that makes it very difficult to buy a cup of coffee when you have to file a tax report on that. Yeah, that's the big argument right now, right is how do we get rid of capital gains taxes? And this is one of the approaches. Obviously, if California passes big win legal tender, that doesn't automatically make everyone have to stop

paying their federal capital gains taxes. But the point is that we want to get enough states moving forward on this issue. Very similar to how we've done with legal marijuana in this country. You get a bottom up approach. Because we live in a republic, we don't live in China, we don't live in Russia. We can do whatever we want on the state level and move those things forward

from a bottom up approach. The the other part of the strategy that we're approaching it from is also on the federal side, also with senators, also with elected officials in the House, and I want to make sure that we push from the bottom up and the top down to ensure that we have the best chance to make this happen. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, if we have to, we'll go to Article five, we will go and we'll rewrite the Constitution. That's how much power

the states have in the United States of America. Mm hm, that's juicy. I want to I want to talk more about that. We so much more to dig into here. But I love the bottom up coach because bitcoin is decentralized technology and so like I really applaud what they did in El Salvador have been working with those people, and they started in the local community. Didn't try to go to the president. They started the local community. Finally that it got so big the president and said, what

the heck is going on there? Oh, shoot, we should take that nationally. And so it's pretty interesting how they did that. You're listening to the Mark mos Show. I'm in the studio with Dennis Porter. We're talking about politics and bitcoin, some fun things, some fun things that don't need to go together. I want to talk about Article five, how we can change the Constitution. Will be right back with that. Don't go away, all right, Welcome back. You

are listening to the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about the intersection of politics, finance, and technology. We're talking about the decentralized revolution that is bitcoin. I'm in the studio right now with Dennis Porter. You can find them on Twitter at Dennis Underscore Porter Underscore. And we've been we've been digging and covered a lot of good stuff. It's

been fun. Now before the break, Dennis, you said that, uh, if we don't get our way through voting, then we can always take it to uh Article five and constitution. So break that down. What do you mean by that right? So, because we live in a republic, it's just a very different governance model. It's very decentralized compared to all governance models for nation states throughout history. It's part of the

reason why the United States has been so successful. Um. But before we get to the you know what exactly an Article five is the reason why we would go to that is because if we are not able on the federal side to get them to pass bitcoin as legal tender and to remove capital gains tax and just make this money it's it should be money. It's money. It should be treated like money, just like the dollar, just like gold, just like silver. UM. And we need

to make sure that we are headed. Like I said in the beginning of the show, we want to go to the same direction as El Salvador. We do not want to go to the direction of the CCP UM. But if the federal government doesn't get on board, if we can't convince enough, what does it policy makers in the House and the Senate to be a part of what we're doing. Which I've had great conversations which would

make me believe that we can move that direction. But let's say we can't worst case scenario, what we're gonna be doing is we're gonna be passing bitcoin legal tender on a state by state basis, and once we get to enough states, we can call for what is an Article five. We can have a constitutional convention that is

completely outside of the control of the federal government. Every state legislator votes if they would like to go to an Article five, and then once we do, we can go there and we can make whatever changes we want to see. So obviously anybody can introduce an amendment during this process. It can be very messy, but it is the ultimate backup, is the ultimate backup plan for this process if the federal government doesn't get on board with us.

So I really see it as this kind of like we have the ace in the whole if we can't get the federal government on board with what we're doing. How has that been used in the past. It's it's rarely ever been used. I don't think it's ever been used for many, many years. But there is already a movement underway to push it forward because there are several other groups that want to get this done. We already have seventeen states as of today who want to go to an Article five. We only need thirty four to

get there. So if we can get thirty four states to vote to go to an Article five constitutional convention, we can go there and amend the Constitution. I would honestly also probably encourage us to take out the seventeenth Amendment, which put the vote for a senator up to the people instead of the legislator. One of the main reasons why that was so critical was it helped with the

decentralized nature of our governance model. UM. So I want to decentralize our power in this government by getting rid of the seventeenth Amendment. But I the key one is making sure we adopt a coin as legal tender. Yeah. I was actually talking about that earlier on one of my other segments. UM, I was talking about the democracy and and in Canada, and I was explaining how, yeah, the US is not a democracy, the U s is

a republic. Most people don't realize that. Um, if you grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance, then you should should understand that, and how it's a decentralized government, and how really under that, under that type of decentralized government, the president really shouldn't matter that much to us, Right, no one should really care about the president, because the presidents have much power over our direct lives. Really, they

deal with some international stuff. Today everything's federal, right, everything has become federal, So now it affects US. And and the one problem that I have with that is it takes away what I consider the most important ingredient that defeats authoritarianism, and that's competition. And so if I don't like California, I could move to Texas, and if enough people go to Texas, it changes Um. And if I don't like the US, I can go to go to El Salvador. Right, we vote with our feet, vote with

our money. But when they make everything federal, it takes that away. And so like, hey, if you like super strict gun rights, uh, then live in a state that does that. Um. If you like a place that wants a sanctuary cities and and uh gives everybody free money, go there. But then let's see how it plays out against another state that doesn't offer that right. Um. And I guess that's kind of what you're thinking. It's exactly what I was thinking. It was funny as you were

saying the word competition. I was writing it down as a note on my piece of paper. Competition is critical. We need to make sure that the government is competing against itself for voters, for capital, for business, for enterprise to come to their states. And when we take the power away from the states and we suck it into the federal government, it removes the level of competition that

we have today. That's why I'm such a big proponent of bitcoin, because it takes away the states, or it should say, the federal government's ultimate power, which is the ability to print unlimited money and to decide where that unlimited money is spent. We need way more focus on states and individual states, not the federal government. So I hant a percent agree with you? Yeah, I do too. I just I don't want that to be a political

issue like um that one side would be partisan to like. Nope, we need to have unlimited money and we need to be able to print as much as we can. It's like that that that one I guess that someone could control the money supply and just print that will seems ridiculous in the first place. I'm going to think that that's to one side or the other seems ridiculous. And

so um, massive change if if that will happen now. Um, one more thing and we'll talk about is that, Um, you know, in in countries like Africa, or in countries like Al Salvador, Venezuela, Argentina has massive inflation inflation going on, there's a there's a massive urgency to move into something else where you're not going to lose your money. So there's this need for bitcoin if your authoritarian government's gonna uh seize your accounts like the Taliban and Afghanistan for example,

there's a need to go into bitcoin. In the West, primarily you know, North America and Western Europe. Most people say like, but what's the need, Like what's the use case? Right? Um? Even uh Peter Schiff was like, uh, you know, there's there's just no use case right um, which is a very like American centric I think view. Um. But today, well, I should say, over the last three weeks, uh, we've seen Canada and now rest of the Ukraine proving exactly

why we need that. And so um, when the when the government tells you don't do drugs, they're bad, that doesn't make you want to go do drugs, right they're bad? Of course, their war and drugs doesn't do anything to stop drugs. When they say that you don't have the right to store your wealth in a way we can't steal from you, it kind of makes you want to do that. They're kind of almost doing the marketing for us. What's your thoughts on that. I mean, I'm a very

I'm very opposed to any sort of prohibition. I think that prohibition historically just never works at all. We've seen it with um, not only the war on drugs, but the prohibition of alcohol. It led to increase in consumption and also led to the mafia being built off of that, because that's how the mafia and the cartels are funded is off of these illegal illicit trades. And so it doesn't make sense to ban things. If you end up

banning bitcoin, it's not gonna go away. People are just gonna use it anyways, and all you're doing is incentivizing the creation of better network tools on the bitcoin network that enable people to use it outside of government eyes, out of government control. So you you just can't stop this technology. And that's why it's just better to get on board, and it's better to start adopting it as

legal tender. It's better to start incentivizing miners to come, an industry to come, because you can't win this game. It's a lose lose game. Bitcoin is anti fragile and people deserve and really I think it's very American in the sense to people should have the rights to store their wealth and whatever asset they want. We're not talking about drugs here, we're not talking about weapons. This is just a safe way to store your money. And to

think that governments could try to ban it, it's nuts. Lastly, on your point about Canada and Russia, it came right after the Super Bowl, right, and everyone was like, man, there wasn't really any good bitcoin super Bowl ads, but we didn't need them because governments give the best ads of all time for bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, you know, it's uh, it's also kind of proving that even out today.

I was earlier on one of my segments to reading some of the news and there was a headline obviously we're seeing that they're you know, trying to impose sanctions even on cryptocurrencies, which of course you know, it's very difficult. You can you can impose them on a centralized exchange. But there was a headline that said um met a mask and Infuria are now blocking Ethereum transactions. So Infuria is basically the company that runs like all the nodes

for ethereum, and now they're censoring them. And so again back to you know, bitcoin and crypto one being decentralized um ethereum supposedly, but look what they're doing with that. And so to your point, they talked a lot about crypto, but now now they're doing all this this bitcoin um advertising. You're listening to the Mark Mos Show. Of course, if you're just tuning in, we're listening. We're talking about politics and bitcoin, two things that probably shouldn't go together, but

we're discussing how that works. I'm in the studio with Dennis Porter. You can find them on Twitter at Dennis underscore port or underscore, and we're talking about how the really, as I say all the time, how bitcoin, how technology changes the way that we organized communicate, and that's what changes the world. It's the decentralized revolution. Dennis has been talking about how we can change politics in a decentralized fashion from the ground up local level, to the state level,

and then eventually to the federal level. Give him a follow, say something on Twitter. Reach out to me. I'm number at number one, Mark moss at one, Mark moss Um. That's what we got for you today. I appreciate you listening. I'll be back with more later. Thanks,