The Mark Moss Show - LIVE from Miami with Mark Jeftovic

by Mark jeff Dovic. Jeff Dovic he's been writing in a newsletter called The Crypto Capitalist, which I've been reading and I've really been enjoying it. And you can find him on Twitter at stunt Hope and Uh, Mark, thanks for joining me today. Hey, Mark, it's great to meet you, and I love your show, so it's a thrill to be on it. Great. Yeah, I was looking forward to this conversation as well. So, um, you know one thing that, uh, to understand bitcoin is difficult because it's so many things.

And do you have to know disciplines and philosophy and game theory and motivation and monetary history and I mean politics, all these different things. Right, you seem to be pretty well versed in a lot of those things, which is probably why you're grasping it pretty well, right, But I love that. I what I would I really love about it is it allows us to bring our sovereignty back, right, to be able to control um our money and even more than that, right because I mean money is changing

as we speak. But um, I was before we started recording, I was making a comment my unpopular opinion that not everything needs to be decentralized. Sorry for all your de fibros out there. Um, Like, I recently bought an investment property in Texas and I got a loan. I got a loan, I locked in thirty year money at three percent interest. Pretty good deal for me. I needed a centralized entity to make sure that my credit was different than your credit and give me a better rate than

your rate or something like that. And like somebody needed to make that decision. It didn't need to be decentralized. And I didn't want to have to overcollateralize that property by a h I wanted to actually borrow eighty or ninety percent of it, right. Um, So that's kind of an opinion. So not everything needs to be decentralized. Um, the money needs to be decentralized at least that's what I think. Um. But but does the Internet That's one thing I want to talk to you about today. Does

the Internet to meet need to be decentralized? Um? And I'm not talking about the applications being built on the Internet. What are your thoughts on that? Well, the Internet as we know it was designed to be a decentralized technology. Uh, stack of protocols, right, The Internet stack is seven layers going from the application layer down to the you know, transport layer and uh, I actually can't remember all seven

of them off the top of my head. But ideal in the naming layer, right, because my main company, Easy d n S is like a domain name DNS company. So if we started the top and work down, you have like an I s P. You're in a service provider. And then does the DNS sit on the next layer

below that? Well, so at the very top you've got applications like Twitter and Facebook and the applications and the webs Right, your I s P is going to sit further down the stack because they're really just moving packets around, right, And that's the company that you sign up with, that's your cox cable or what podcast and they're just giving

you the raw pipe and uh. And then between actually that layer and the application layers, you have this this naming layer where you don't want to memorize IP addresses would be like akin to memorizing Bitcoin addresses. You can't really do it. So you need this this translation mechanism to go back and forth between IP addresses and human

memorable labels. And that is the DNS system Domain Name system, and that is you know, sort of decentralized, but not really because it's an inverted tree hierarchy, right you hear. You have like one Mark Moss dot com. There's an implicit dot at the end of that that no one you don't really have to write, but that dot is the root of the Internet naming system dot com. Nope,

the dot after the dot com. But nobody really writes it because it's just a convention, Like all the machines know it's there, so you don't have to put the

dot after the dot com. But at the top of this tree, this inverted tree, there's the dot, and then under that dot is calm and net and organ and then these these um newer ones like website and support and w TF and media and all of them, and then underneath those, like every dot is another layer in the tree, right, so underneath Calm is one Mark Moss and then if you've got www or f t P or mail, then that's underneath. So you have this inverted

tree hierarchy. So it's really at the end of the day, it's kind of centralized because at every level of that tree. I don't want to get too technical, but you know what you call a zone cut. You can have a different set of name servers that are servicing that level, So you can have these nick like you could have completely different entity handling one you know, one sub domain under your domain, but everyone above you in the tree can really exert influence on you all the way down.

So when someone tries to d platform a website, for example, they can go to your I s P. They can go to your web host. They can even go to the registry and say take it out of the dot com. So the the host would be where my website is hosted, so Amazon Web Servers or something like that, that's the host, so they could attack there, and then we have the I s P, which is my Comcast or whatever, and they could say, hey, don't route traffic to that i P and then we use VPNs to get around that

can happen. Yeah, um, and then you would have then the name server. I guess that's what you're talking about. You can go to either the name server operators and say stop resolving this name, or you can go to the registry operator like a VERI sign or an aphilius and say take this name right out of the zone. So that means when somebody wants to go to my website, um on one Mark moss um, so they type that in and then the service then matches that and then

routes it to the the IP address. The IP address if you've ever set up a router at your house, you know what that is. But it's like a one six eight dot one, dot one, do whatever, something like that. So it would it would take my name and then routed to that IP address. But if there's something that gets in the in the middle of that that says don't do that translation or there's nothing to look up because of the zones the name has been pulled from

the zone, then you don't get there, right. So those are some of the main attack vectors now in in China. What's the Great Firewall of China. Um, you know, there's no Google, no Facebook, no no Netflix, none of that. But they still get around the Great Firewall of China,

right just using VPNs mostly yea. So it's mostly being blocked at the I s P level there, the Internet service provider they even So there's it's like an escalating arms race because VPN providers will then get blocked, right because the State apparatus is monitoring for new VPN services and they monitor the the the address tables and that sort of thing. So it's a constant back and forth. Okay, so but most people use VPNs to get around the I s P. So that seems to be the main

source of of of censorship, I guess. And then the next would be the name. Now on the name, they could not allow the name to route properly. But if someone typed in my IP address directly, couldn't they still get there? They could? Yeah, as long as the host didn't take it down. Yeah, that's what happened with wiki leaks back in two thousand ten. And uh, you know that was the whole, the whole story that we got embroiled in. But then they enough people knew the IP

addresses that they could still get to the website. So to answer your original question, d n S is somewhat decentralized, but there still is this like inverted tree centralized hierarchy to it um, it's more I consider it more like a federation then, like it's a federated hierarchy, not a

top down hierarchy. But I always used to say, you know, when people would get up in arms about something that happened at the DNS level and they'd say, we need a decentralized d n S, I would always chirp in from on high saying, you know, you can't do it because it's an inverted tree hierarchy and there's you can't d P two P DNS is impossible. And then Bitcoin came along and it proved me wrong because then I realized, oh, you know what, you don't have to have an inverted

tree hierarchy. You can use a decentralized ledger as the route, and then you can pin things onto that decentralized ledger and you would avoid name collisions. And so name coin was an original like a very early UH fork of Bitcoin that was experimenting that with that with the dot bit t l D right. I don't know if they're still going. There's been subsequent developments. There's Etherium Name Service e n S, there's a handshake h n S unstoppable. No one's done it right to bitcoin yet, but I

think I think there's a case for it. I think it can happen. Yeah, we're talking about bitcoin. You listen to the Mark Mo Show. I'm sitting down with Mark Jefftovic. We will be back in just a minute. Do not go away, all right, welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking about the decentralized revolution that the world is going through right now. Of course,

bitcoin is spearheading that. I'm coming to you from Miami Beach where I'm actually here for the Bitcoin conference, and uh I'm going to be working the Bitcoin News desk. I'm sitting down with Mark Jetovic. Now, before we took the break, Mark, we were talking about this kind of decentralized stack, and you're starting to get to the d n S and I had asked you the d NS. For those that are listening to do't understand, that's the

name domain name server service service service. So basically when you type in my website name Mike one Mark Moss, it will then route you to the IP address. And I asked, if you just have the IP address, then you said yes, that would still work. So that's kind of how what happened with wiki leaks. You're giving that example.

I think that's kind of where we cut off. Yeah, and the idea that I've been fooling with in the back of my mind for a while now, and I kind of let it go, and lately I've been bringing it back is you could use a decentralized ledger as kind of like a side chain to the actual legacy d n S system, so rather than UM, rather than UM. A lot of these decentralized DNS projects are setting up new top level domains. You've got dot ef, You've got dot crypto and dot n f T and all of

these things. UM. I'm watching those innovations and I'm interested in them, but I don't know what's going to happen. If there's going to be another expansion in sort of the legacy d n S world that's run by I can this corporation out of California. What happens if someone tries to go for dot crypto, there is it going to clash with a decentralized dot crypto. But I have an idea that I've been sort of noodling with in my mind where you use a decentralized blockchain and you

use it to extend existing domain names. So let's say one Mark Moss dot com gets d platformed because um, you've said the wrong thing, you committed a thought crime, or even you forget you forgot to renew your your

bill with your registrar. If if there are enough like almost like Web three enabled devices out there, I just use that as a catch phrase for like meta mask and these things built in your browser that's sort of new to look at a certain well, I can't see Mark Moss dot com or one Mark Moss dot com in the legacy t LD, but is it is there a record for it on this bitcoin block chain or this whatever name blockchain and then just kind of pick it up from there and have the same sort of

root arounding it rooting around the legacy um inverted tree and picking it up off the blockchain. That could be something pretty interesting. Yeah, So you just need something else that can point to it, that can re that can kind of work as like a routing system. Um. You mentioned web three. Um, and if we think about like a web three or if we think about like n f T S, which I don't talk a lot about n f T s, but n f T S you basically have UM something pointing to a record like a

hash in a in a chain. So is that kind of something like that where it kind of points it and it can kind of redirect or something. I think domain names are the original n f T So when I look at squiggly lines there, you know, psychedelic squares, I don't understand that like I do sort of. I'm sort of like the knuckle dragger that says it's a JPEG, which is a big deal. But when I look at a domain name, like every domain name is a unique

data structure unto itself. It's pointing different IP addresses that has different layers, and they can be they can be like a labyrinth, they can be very elaborate and complex things. One single domain they're all running on the same protocol,

every single one of them is different. And I look at that and I say, that's an n f T. And so when I look at what n f T s aspire to be like, forget the squiggly lines, look at just um rights management, look at even single sign on capabilities, look at just transmitting data in a decentralized way. About a uniform protocol that where each instance of it is unique. Then I sort of look at that and think n f T s could be like when you look at it as a domain name, that could be

a very very powerful thing. That's sort of what I was getting at when I was trying to describe that. Look aside to a side chain to get your your data from. Yeah, and n f T just stands for a non fungible token, so obviously it can pretty much most things in the world. They're non fungible, right, They're not one to one so um, it's very broad generalization. But getting back to them, not everything needs to be decentralized, and so I guess, like I said, my thought process

was like, the money needs to be decentralized. But the Internet is already somewhat centralized decentralized. So obviously Twitter, we're all on Twitter and we're very it's very centralized, and of course they can and can't censor that if they want, YouTube, etcetera. But is the Internet itself decentralized enough that we could use it. Yeah, I think it is. I mean, even when you look at the name servers that operate just the root t l D, you think, well, that's a

single point of failure. Well no, it's actually served by thirteen name servers. So you say, okay, well that's decentralized, but that's still only thirteen. Well, each thirteen of those name servers is really just a name server instance themselves. They can be multiple name servers. There's a protocol in DNS I won't borry you with. It's called any cast. It's basically multiple servers around the world answer to the same IP address. So each one of those thirteen route

name servers are themselves in any cast constellations. So at the end of the day, that dot root zone isn't served by thirteen name servers. It's served by thousands of name servers. And so you do have like you have that structure, but it's still decentralized enough. And that's why I used the phrase federation earlier on, because you have

all these disparent entities. Those name servers are run by everyone from the the U S Military to IBM to nonprofit organizations and so they're all just sort of running miss same p It's it's kind of similar to bitcoin mining. Okay. I think about one of the first examples that stands out to me of this you know day and age that we're in with censorship was when Alex Jones got de platformed. Right, he just got wiped off the face in concerts. So like all the platforms kind of came

together and at every single account that he had. Um, but they don't stopped him. His website is still up, He's still getting millions of views on every show that he does. Then he just broadcasting from his own So like even as hard as he was d platformed, Um, sure you can't find him on YouTube or you can't find him on Google, but he's still they're kind of a thing. Yeah, D platforming doesn't work D platforming for

the most part. Um, you may be able to take out a single instance of a person in a D platforming, but a lot of times that person can benefit from D platforming or come back stronger. I mean that. Yeah, you've got the book right there. I just handed to or audio only, but you know chapter four of that book is does D platforming even work. In the conclusion I came to was it doesn't. So Mark is Uh. I'm joined by Mark Jeff Dovic and I'm Mark Moss.

You're listening to the Mark Moss Show. Um, and Mark just handed me a book called Unassailable and it says protect yourself from d platform attacks can soil culture and other online disasters, which is pretty important because in today's day and age, we're in a digital age. You know. I thought about like Facebook ads, Like if you run paid Facebook ads, which I've done quite a bit of in the past. Um, it's so hard. I mean, they

banned your account for everything. And if you have an online business and you can't advertise online, you're effectively out of business and they can just shut you down. So it's something I think about a lot. I want to dig more into this actual book, and let's talk about protecting yourself from d platform attacks because honestly, that's something I really worry about. That's something I really worry about, So I'd love to hear more about that. Um, you're

listening to the Mark Moa Show. We're talking about the decentralized revolution that's being led by bitcoin. Um, we're talking about how the world is changing from that. I'm at the Bitcoin Conference in Miami recording with Mark Jeff Dvic and Uh, we're gonna talk more about protecting yourself from d platform attacks, cancel culture, and other online disasters when we get back, So don't go away, all right, Welcome back.

You're listening to the Mark Moa Show. We are talking about bitcoin and the decentralized revolution in the way it is changing the world. UM joined today with by Mark Jeff Tovic. We are in Miami for the Bitcoin Conference, and we're talking about I made the unpopular opinion to some people last night at a party that not everything needs to be decentralized, the money needs to be decentralized, and we're talking about the need. Does the Internet need

to be decentralized or is it? And so that's what we've been talking about. Before the break and before we took off, Mark, we talked about this book, this Unassailable that you just wrote, UM, and it says protect yourself from d platform attacks. So we just talked about Alex Jones. He was d platformed and it's something that I think a lot about because my you know, if they shut down my YouTube channel, I mean man, that's that's gonna be devastating for me. And uh, you know, if if

I was d platformed, it would be devastating. So how do we protect ourselves from platform d platform attacks? So one of the things you have to pay attention to, I mean, the subtext to this today's conversation is is the Internet decentralized. The protocols are decentralized. The protocols describe a way to to operate in a decentralized fashion. The platforms are centralized. So we're in this world where I think the big defining tension, you know, you call it

the decentralized revolution. It's between centralization decentralization over here in the Internet spaces, between protocols and platforms. Right, email is a protocol. The most important thing you can do is capture the email address of all of your users, your customers, your followers. Get that email address when you're on Twitter, when you're on YouTube. Those people aren't your customers, they're

not your followers, they're not your subscribers. Their YouTube's and they let you have access to them provided your plane by their rules. We call it a market, and we say it's the list you own versus the list you rent, right, yeah, yeah, and there's there's various different guys is for that. It's you know, James tramp Co calls it own the race course. I always loved that phrase, and so um you want to use those platforms like Twitter and YouTube and Facebook

almost as a lead gen right. The number one goal for every follower you get on those platforms get them back to your website. Get their email address, right, That's that's number one. Because anybody can stand up an email server anywhere in the world, provided your following certain best practices, you can send email to your subscribers as long as you're not using Gmail, because Gmail is a centralized application of it as a platform. The platform mail Chimp is

a platform. Mail Chimp is a platform that specializes you sending your list, but they're going to monitor your content and if you send them the wrong content, they're going to shut you down. I got kicked off a mail chump early on when I was writing my cryptocurrency research newsletter. I was using mail Chump and they shut me down. They saw I was using words crypto or whatever, and

they kicking off. Clavio did the same for us on an automated and We had like a multi thousand dollars spend per month with them over on easy d n us where we write our access is easy Weekly Technology Digest. We're a technology company. How do you write about technology without saying the word bitcoin in it? Right, So they shut us down automatically. So we move to a system called maudic m A U T I C. That's not a plug, that's an open source platform. Right. You can

download it for free. You set it up on a commodity VPS anywhere in the world, and it's like a mail chimp or in a Weber on your own server. And so that's that's what this book advocates. It's like, you take as much control over every aspect of your operations, and you put it on a resource that is under your own domain name, and you give some specifics like that. Yeah, it's mentioned there in the book, so email being one of them. So you can take control of your email

that's the list you own, not that you rent. And then you can actually have your own uh server to send out your own emails, as opposed to a platform like Gmail that could censor you. Yeah, exactly, and that and so I mean I talk, I mean that book actually isn't new that came out a couple of years ago. I'm thinking about doing a revision for it because every at the time I wrote the book, I thought I've missed the boat, I've hit Pete cancel culture, and it's

all going to do. Yeah. Right, I kind of missed that call. And uh so now I think I've got to update it. Especially I've got to I've got a beef out this section on financial decentralization and um, you know, uh, PayPal stripe. All of those guys are centralized, especially with what happened with the credit card companies when they decide that your persona non grata. And again, like the Alex Jones thing, they seem to act in concert. When you come under the gun, you come under everyone's gun at

the same time. Yeah. Yesterday, Um, I was at there's a bank Bitcoin venture fund, Trammel Venture Partners tv P. I'm an I'm an advisor for the fund UM and they had a whole investor day yesterday. So I was there all day and they had several of the companies that are in the fund that they're invested in to

come and talk. One of them is called Impervious. Yeah, you've heard of that, and they've built they they said, hey, look, we were thinking about buld our own operating system, but we realized that about eight percent of the time is spent in the browser, so we're just gonna make our own browser. And they made their own browser and then built into the browser it has Zoom but without Zoom and so directly from the browser, I can click on Zoom and you and I could do a video conference.

But it's going peer to peer. Yeah, it's probably using Jetsy or something like that as well, So it's like a decentralized video conferencing protocol. Yeah, and but but it goes directly peer to peer as opposed to going through any servers or whatever. And then they have so they have the Zoom and then they have messagings. Then we can communicate peer to peer, and then they have Google Docs. But without Google, it's just docs. But that we can

collab on and stuff. There's there's every So people just don't know these things exist. And so in my main business, and these are the things that the Googles of the world, the platforms have used, and people just didn't realize that that we could just use it without them, right, you can cut out the middleman, right, the centralizer. And so like at easy d n S, we don't use Slack

because Slack is centralized. We use a system called matter most again, so it's open source, you download it, you put it on your own server, right, and and so you're not going through this centralized system. Um, there's open office and liber Office instead of Microsoft Office. There's like I mentioned, jets instead of Zoom. It's all of this

stuff is happening, and there's it's accelerating. So you mentioned I think we were talking about the in China and the China the China file wall, and it's like this game is like almost like a cat and mouse game. So like, um, the state, if you will, you know, puts measures in to try to control the restrict things, and then entrepreneurs kind of move to kind of push back on that. Is that kind of how you see

that working? Yeah, pretty much. Um, there's a never ending first in China, I think, to get outside information and as long as that demand is there, people are going to be coming along to provide mechanisms to get around it. But isn't I guess the kind of the point that I've been asking and it seems like the answer is that, um, we don't necessarily to invent new things. The Internet already

allows for those things. We just have to realize that we can actually access to things without the centralized platforms. And so now we're just having to kind of relearn how to use some of the tools that are already there. You just have to, um, you just have to find it. You have to just do the research and read up on it and get outside these silos of mainstream you know, narrative and information, and then you're going to find out

that there's a whole universe out there. I mean, in a in a way, the cryptocurrency revolution is just the tip of the iceberg. This is happening everywhere. It is a revolution. Yeah, yeah, And you know it's a it's a it's a constant trade off between convenience and security or convenience, you know, whatever it is. And like, um, you know, I think we all understand how bad this iPhone is in my pocket to carry around, but I'm still waiting for my librum to come in. I ordered

him like three years ago. But the thing is, though, is like I remember as a kid, like watching the Jetsons and like I want a robot clean to my house. I want to like, we'll just speak to a robot of my house. I have have to do everything, So I want the technology, but I don't want to weaponized against me. Yeah, I mean the things like the Alexa and the Hey Google and all that and and you know, all my normy friends and family use it and swear by it, and I'm like, get that crop out of my house.

Like there's I would love. I would just absolutely love to be able to say, hey, you know, Siri, like you know, make me a sandwich and uh and find out what's going on. But it's does it have to go back to Amazon, the quarters, the whole point and come out It doesn't have to. I mean, there's got to be a way to decentralize that, and I'm sure someone's going to do it at some point. I've I've asked some friends that set that those stuff up. They say, there are some systems you can pay for that do

similar things, but they don't. But you pay a lot of money for him, because if you don't pay for the product, that you are the product. Right you're listening to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin and the decentralized Revolution. We're talking specifically, I'm sitting down with Mark Jeff Jeff Dovic UM talking about his book Unassailable, how to Protect yourself from d platform attacks, which is something that I'm concerned with. Bitcoin, the decentralized revolution the

Internet is allowing us to do just that. UM. Coming to you from Bitcoino Conference. I'm gonna be right back with Mark with a little bit more in a second, So don't go away, all right, Welcome back. You're listening to the Mark mo Show. We're talking about Bitcoin, the decentralized Revolution, and how it's changing the world as we speak.

You know, one of the big things about decentralization is removing the power, the centralized power that controls us, so we can have more power and freedom into our own sovereign lives. And bitcoin is enabling that. UM. Bitcoin is enabling that for the money, which, as I like to always make the case that there is no freedom without freedom of payments. UM. But you know, I'm joined by Mark Jeff Toovic we're here talking in Miami for the Bitcoin Conference. UM. So without the freedom to payment, I

have I have no freedom. Uh. Specifically in the American Constitution we're guaranteed freedom of speech, but today's day and age, I need a computer or phone really to get speech. I mean, I have to print a pamphlet or I have to build a website, and so something I have to I can talk into the wind, I suppose, but that's not gonna do much good, right, and so I

need that freedom of payment. Um. And so then we've been talking about the Internet, which is that main kind of medium of communication I suppose, which is basically open and free, but it's been co opted by the central entities, and so we're talking about ways to get around that. He wrote a book called Unassailable How to Protect Yourself from d Platform Attacks. UM. In the book, you talk about how cancel culture has been happening through the ages. So is this are you Are you trying to say

this is not something new that we're dealing with. It isn't new. I mean there's always there's always a certain kind of mindset that thinks they have the right to tell other people how to live. Right. Why why it's wrong with those people? I know? I mean because I always think, when I really thought about it, I thought, at the root component of all this, all disagreements about anything.

Are really a difference in priorities? Right? If you and I disagree about something, that means you're prioritizing something differently than I'm prioritizing something else. So when you realize that, how can anyone possibly think with a clear conscience that they have the right to set somebody else's priorities right? But that's what cancel culture, cancel hullics, you know, cancel Karen's want to do. They want to set your priorities right. And so what's unique today, though, is that UM, in

this era of high tech, you know, UM amplification. You have the power to consolidate and to amplify and to leaver yourself so you can get just the most you know,

narcissistic salopsis. You know, busy buddy, give them a blue check on Twitter, a couple of million followers, you know, and suddenly they what date, what goes on in their mind gets amplified a million times and suddenly someone's losing a job, someone's getting dropped from some some publications, some book deals, getting killed, and it just it just gets levered up that way. Yeah, so it's nothing new, I

you know, we see it on every level of society. Right, So it's like, uh, if you have a homeowners association, they want to get on the homeowner Socius board or teachers association or whatever. Even today, I mean it's gotten crazy, um flying and like the flight attendants used to be there for like customer service to make sure that your flight was going okay, and now it's like now that they've learned, they have the power to kick people off the plane. You know, it's like you do what I say,

or I'll kick you off. And it's like wait a minute, Like this this whole relationship change. So um, yeah, a little bit of power goes a long way. And so um, I guess it's a culture of people not wanting to to take care of themselves. They want to take care of you. Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, it really comes down to you either think you can tell other people what to do or you're worried about you know,

it's hard enough to look after your own life. And I don't mean this from every man for himself dog eat dog perspective. I mean this from cultivating yourself. Improving yourself every day is a full time job and should be, and it's a full people should be spending a full job on it. Yeah, and none of us have ever complete that job. We have our hands full just taking care of ourselves and making ourselves the best people we

can be. And if everyone does that, then you won't have to tell everybody around you, you know, what you think they should do to become a better person. You really have no clue. Well, and we've certainly seen, you know, back to the back to the Karen thing and whatever. We've certainly seen the leaders today they just feel like they just know better and you just you're just not smart enough to understand the issues. They come from this moral high per of well, look, this is for your

own good because you don't understand it, you know. Yeah, we've also seen we were talking before we were recording, We're talking about democracy, and I was talking how I see it as a tyranny of the minority by the majority. Well, what I've seen in your country, Canada, from your democratic leaders, if we'll call them that, right, the Trudeau's Party, but even in the United States as well. Um, they're saying

it's these people are threatening our democracy. So because they want something that we don't want, it's a threat to our democracy. In the United States, it's getting paired it all around democracy democracy, um, and and the same in Canada. So it's like, this is what we want. The people are saying they want something different, but they're the threat to the democracy. But it's like, wouldn't that be the democracy? Yeah, exactly, and um it's um. There's another phrase that hasn't caught

on quite the same, but Claus Schwab loves it. It's called subsidiary, right, and and he it dresses up in a nice term. It means like decisions should be made as close to the local level as possible. So it sort of almost sounds like, hey, we all get to decide things for ourselves. But when you read between the lines, what it really means is that we the elites, the people from on what sorry, the elites, the people from on high, we get to set the rules and subsidiarity

means you get to follow them anyway you want. And democracy is like almost a synonym of that. It just means, um, democracy is what the elites want, and anything that people want to do for themselves that is against what the elites want is by definition anti democratic. Yeah. So I love that idea though, of decisions being made on a local level, which is back to we were talking about again before recording and how the United States isn't the democracy,

it's a republic. So we have this representative government and that way you can have whatever is best for those local people kind of making the decisions. One problem is that in the United States, UM, as the population has completely exploded, we didn't add more representatives. So we've even centralized that right where you used to have small groups of people represented, and now we have giant groups of

people who represented. And I think you know, like in a homeowners association, I use that example a lot and homeowners association. UM, it is kind of a democracy. We vote on it. Now we do elect the board. We vote for a board, and then they kind of run it. But it's a it's a democracy. The one difference though, everyone in the homeowners association pays for owns a house and they're paying that so their skin in the game.

But it's also done on a very small scale. Um. I lived in a gated neighborhood and we didn't like it, and now we moved to a non gated neighborhood and now it's not as nice. The streets aren't as nice people don't keep their homes up as nice. I don't have a tennis, tennis court and pool anymore, but I don't have people telling me what to do either, and

so I could make that trade off. The problem is when you take away that local decision making where I could just do that, and now everything is federal and now I have no choice. We're kind of stuck with that. Yeah, I mean, the ability to vote with your feet is you know, the last salvation and you know bitcoin is the great opt out in my mind, is that's how

you opt out of these other rules. And to be clear, like the definition of the subsidiarity is a good concept, but it's been co opted by you know, people like the Davos Crew who say, um, you know, it just means that we've already decided the big picture stuff, so you can you can fight climate change anyway you want, except by saying, well, I don't think that there's a emergency that's not one of the options that's already been decided. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's it's scary. You know, we're starting to see where they're saying, you know, doctors that speak against the consensus or science, they even said, scientists that speak against the consensus, and it's like all progress has come because they spoke against the consensus. Everyone agreed that no one would ever fly. Yeah, yeah, everyone agreed that. And the Right brothers were heretics. They against the consensus. How dare they if it's consensus by definition,

isn't science. That's a famous quote from somewhere I can't remember. But the story I love about the Wright brothers was it was their their father, the pastor who coined, you know, that famous phrase of God had intended man to fly wings. That was their father. Well, he was certainly wrong about that. What's interesting though, is that he uh, similar, similar, similar to bitcoin. When Sados Nakamoto solved the general's problem, he came from somewhere totally different that no one had looked at.

And we see that all the time. So the Right brothers, they were not engineers. They were bicycle mechanics, and so you kind of have to have that different point of view. Um, you're listening to the Mark Moa show, and uh, we're talking about bitcoin, the Decentralized Revolution. I've been here talking with Mark Jefftovic. We're talking about his book called Unassailable and you can find him on Twitter, um at stunt Pope and check out his news letter of Crypto Capitalist.

That's what I got for you today. Thanks for listening.