The Mark Moss Show Jan 28, 2022

you build that foundation. I bring you the latest breaking news and headlines, and then I try to bring you some of the best and brightest people in the industry to give you some some different insights into what's going on. And um today I'm in the studio with a with a good friend, Brandon quit Um. You can find him on Twitter at b quit Um. That's q U I T t e m at b quit Um. He uh. He works with Swan Bitcoin and company that I work with as well, and um man, he has just some

great insights. I always love talking to him. So Brandon, thanks for joining. Hey, Mark, thanks for having me on. Good to see you as always. Yeah, you know, I know, um shoot, I think it was like a month ago. Maybe we were both in Miami. Um, we both we both did kind of shows with Peter mccorm podcast, which was which was cool, and then we got to go have have some dinner. And UM, I always love having conversations with you, and I wanted to talk about that.

We were both kind of laying out different thesis is UM, but they also overlap at the same time. And I think there's some some some good stuff in there. And UM, I think the big thing is like, Uh, you've been talking a lot about, you know, an eighty year cycle that's based off of a book, UM, the Fourth Turning, And UM, well, I think the Fourth Turning is interesting. It's it's bigger than that. UM. But it's kind of

like this eighty year cycle. And UM, while I've been saying that, a lot of what's going on today as far as like UM, tensions are high, people alread each other's throats. There's people all over the world that are protesting in the streets, and a lot of people think it's random, right, like, uh, it's a black Swan event. Like who would have ever predicted that a virus would come and do this? Right, It's it's random. Um. History

actually tells us it's not random. History actually tells us that, no, this is you can call it the virus if you will, but it's not random. Would you agree with that, and if so, maybe set that up for us a little bit. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I definitely do not think that what we're seeing today is random. Um. Obviously

the world is complex. However, in in the individuals that we all are acting in our own local environment, UM, there appears to be patterns that emerge from this individual actor level. And one thing that humans struggle with related to this is that we always think linearly what I do yesterday? What am I doing tomorrow? And that that works in some instances, but it also leads us astray when looking at the grand picture, the bigger picture of history.

And so I would I would turn people to cycles, and I would like people to accept the fact that cycles exist. Right. We measure our days and our years based on cycles in um, the sun and the moon for example. UM. If you look through history, their cycles between is labor strong? Is capital strong? The individual? The collective? Are we religious? Not? Right? There's all these different cycles.

And yeah, I do think we're at the end of a long cycle, both from a Ray Dalio debt perspective, but also through the fourth turning lens, which just looks at individuals and the generations that they make up. And the thesis is essentially that we're all born in the

same time period. Let's say we're millennials were born at the same time, so the conditions upon which we're raised are all the same, and so that sort of imprints us with a certain mode, and we sort of respond in predictive ways as a group, and then that group sort of grows up and then they start to push back on history and in somewhat predictable ways. So the individual is unpredictable, but the demographics or the generational segment

is a little bit more predictable. And you mentioned one thing about what we're seeing in the world, like is the cancel culture consistent or is that new right? And I think what most people notice right now is no one can trust the institutions. And that's very common at the end of the cycle, where essentially we look around and we see healthcare, we see politics, we see government, we see economics, and none of these institutions work for us.

And so that eroding trust sort of causes us to civilization to respond in a way where it's time to collectivize and it's time to make change, and that's sort of the stress we feel right now. It's also at the valley of the religious cycle. And so this is the lowest point of religion the last eight years. And so instead of turning to higher powers like traditional religions, we choose politics as our religion. And that's why you see so much in fighting right now. Who There's a

lot of things in there. I should have been I should have been writing more of them down. UM. I think about one the loss of trust institutions, as you said, UM, and then I think about the low point of religion, and and those are a little bit different. Let's talk about the religion one for a minute, because is I think what we have is that um, and and you tell me where this fits in. But like what we have is that the media is trying to tell us today that we organize based off of sex or preference

or race or gender or whatever it may be. UM, But really we we we organize or group on values. So like at the Bitcoin conference, for example, would be thirty five thousand people, all different races and genders and sexual preference, whatever, but we're all they're based off of shared values. And UM, it seems like morality or if you want to call it religion has a and whatever religion you want to, you know, subscribe to UM. They

have the shared sense of values of morality. And the United States also used to have a shared set of values, right, hard work and freedom and things like that, and it seems like it's been completely destroyed. Not just all religion has been driven out, but all sense of values. I mean, would you group kind of morality together like that? And is that kind of how you see it? Yeah, I think that's right. I think religion is one source of

morality that people have drawn. Another one would be traditional American values, like you said, which is power to the individual, decentralization of central control from our government standpoint right. Essentially, everyone has a chance, everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. And what it seems like now is that the state has increasingly grown in size and power. And what that's led to is UM individuals essentially outsourcing our higher power

or our morality to the big government. And so it sort of feels like a surrogate parent or a surrogate god in a sense. And so what that's led to is a sort of a decline in what we would consider traditional values. UM A decline from classical liberal values and instead sort of a more of a collectivist mindset. And UM, during chaotic periods like this, right, we're going through a lot of volatility. I think everyone would agree

with that. During that period, it is natural to try to collectivize a little bit because as we see this grand challenge and it feels like the right thing to do is come together and make the change. But that also has some dark consequences. Right. For example, we've seen a lot of cancel culture, and that is that feels to me like an impulse from society to say, hey, there's big problems, we have to work together to get

through them. And if you're not with us, you're against us. Right, that's the phrase that I always come back to you. And so what it leads to as individuals essentially eating their own um. And so I call I call cancel culture friendly fire and UM. It feels like the right thing to do, but it actually undermines what we need,

which is to push decision making back out to the individual. Um. That's how society is strongest, That's where prosperity is built by individuals working hard and creating value rather than giving up control to the centralized planners who, despite their best intentions, Uh, central planning is not an appropriate way to steer an economy. It's just not fundamentally possible to a lurp up all

the data that a market economy produces. And so we're sort of, in my view, we're sort of shooting ourselves in the foot by over collectivizing here. Um. And if we want to tie one more thing back to these cycles, about eighty years ago, we're on the tail end of World War two or sorry that the beginning of World War two and the end of the Great Depression, and we saw a similar impulse where a lot of collectivism came together, and that might have been needed during World

War two. But I do not see a reason for us to overly collectivized or overly spend money now, as if we're in wartime conditions. There's a lot of things to dig in on that, um good places. I was um talking to another big investor, kind of macro guy yesterday, UM Chris Martinson, and he said, UM, I feel like the world is in a blowoff top right now. So in economics or in bitcoin, if you look at like we had, there's this huge pair of allah run and then you have the blowoff top and he said he

thinks the world is gonna blow blow off top. I'm gonna explain what that means in a second. Um, if you're listening to the markma Show, we're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about cryptocurrencies and this decentralized revolution. We're talking about it from a bigger lens today with Brandon quit Hum from Swan Bitcoin. He's in the studio with me at b quit Um on Twitter. Give him a shout out and say hi, check out Swan Bitcoin. UM, and we're gonna talk more about how bitcoin fix into this

long lens of cycles. Don't go away and be right back, all right, welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Moa Show and we're talking about bitcoin and and the decentralized revolution that's happening. And I'm joined in the studio to day by my friend that Brandon quit Um from Swan Bitcoin. You can find him on Twitter at b quit Um q U I T T E M. And we're talking about of course bitcoin. Um, we're talking about it from a much longer lens. UM looking at really

an eighty year time frame. I like to look back at two U fifty years and five hundred years, but but we're looking at eighty years. Some of it is based off of a book called The Fourth Turning, which talks about four twenty year cycles, um, and then some of it is just some other stuff that we have.

But UM Brandon, before the break, I was telling you I was talking to this other a macro investor yesterday, UM, Chris Martinson, and he was talking about how he thinks the world is going into a blowoff top and so in in in financial markets, a blow off top is when you start going to this parabolic phase. And what happens is humans were very basic. We're motivated by two things. We want to rush towards pleasure and run from pain. And so when the prices of things start going higher, higher, higher,

it starts sucking everybody in. They want pleasure and they bye bye bye bye bye, which then only pushes things up even higher. And then when it blows off, then people want to run from pain, so they cell Celles cell And what he was saying is he thinks the world is heading into a blow off top of socialism. And so you had just said that we're starting to push more and more stuff onto the state and that's

basically the same thing he said. And so you think about socialism dying, Um, you know maybe with the fall of the Berlin Wall in Russia, etcetera. But it but it didn't. And really, you know, even in the United States, we've seen it really increase since, not decreased. And he kind of made the same point that we're continuing to put more and more stuff on the state. So like, I don't want to deal with my healthcare, you just

handle healthcare. I don't want to day with my kids, you just handle education, right and and all throughout the world we've done that, and that's socialism, um. And the nanny state has grown and it's starting to just suck in everything. And he said, I think it's going up. It's sucking everything, and we're in this parabala and then we're gonna have this socialism blow off top. Does that sound like maybe it makes some sense? Yeah, I hate to say that. That does sound like it does make sense. Um.

I think that would be again a huge mistake. And it might feel nice in the short term for individuals to give up autonomy or our agency to the state. Um. However, it brings back that problem again, which is that the world is more complex than we think. And it certainly more complex than a group of central planners. No matter how many equations they have, no matter how much data they think they can collect, the reality is civilization is

far more complex, and so UM. I would like to see a world where we rebuild with market based economies, which have proven to be more successful. UM. But what I what I attribute this resurgence to is one economic inequality is at a I think it's about an eighty year high for that as well. And in that type of situation, people do get desperate and they do look for someone to bail them out. UM. However, that that's not the way forward. I just can't. I just can't

handle that sort of a future. And I think what the state wants to do here is use better technology to upgrade the state's capacity. And so we're seeing um mass surveillance, both on the social layer but also on the financial layer. And I think most people just sort of accept that everything that they do is being spied on, UM, which is a little bit scary. But the state assumes they can just spy on everything and then make better decisions on our behalf. And I don't think that that's

morally right. I think I would rather be in charge of my own life. Um. And simultaneously, it's just not it's just not practically the best way to make decisions because again, you can't make decisions from a central point. Too much data, the world's too complex. Yeah, today I saw Russia, the Bank of Russia, so that it's not official, but the Bank of Russia calls for full ban on crypto. Russia central Bank suggests making crypto trading, mining, and usage illegal.

Owning crypto would be allowed, so you can own it, but you can't trade it or minded or use it. I don't get that part. But but they said here, I love this part right here. Um, by offering an outlet for people to take their money out of the national economy, they risk undermining it and making the regulator's

job of maintaining optimal monetary policies order. So by offering an outlet, if if there's an anilet of people take their money out, they risk undermine it and make the regular job of maintaining this control the central planning maintain optimal monetary policies harder. But but what's optimal, right? Optimal for me isn't optimal for you, And that kind of goes back to this central planner, like, how does somebody in Washington know what's best for me in southern California?

How does one person know what's best for million people in the United States or you know whatever? Um, and this is this is in Russia obviously, but I think that kind of goes to your point, like these central planners, how do they know what's best for everybody? And and is there one single best for everybody? These are good questions, and um, you know my answer already. Of course they can't know what's best for everyone, even though they'll pretend

to be the moral voice in the room. And of course they make they make their They essentially build up the problem upon which they're willing to solve or they're the only ones capable of solving it. But the reality is the solution a k A. State intervention in markets. That solution actually is the problem, because by intervening with free market activity, you create all these unintended consequences. And so um, not surprising coming from Russia, Um, not surprising

coming from China. Right. Bitcoin is a freedom enabling technology. It empowers the individual at the expense of the state or any power structure who wants to coerce the individual. And so I like to say that bitcoin is incongruent with authoritarianism. And so it's not surprising that we see

these autocratic states push bitcoin out. Why because it undermines the central planners and so, um, what I see here as an opportunity is as China and Russia start to push out this this freedom technology, this is an opportunity for the u US to embrace this technology. China and Russia are obviously are diametrically opposed global enemies to use some colorful language, but if that is true, this is our turn to lean in because bitcoin is fundamentally of

American values. Bitcoin accepts the centralization of powered, empowers the individual. Um, it is a freedom based technology. That's what made America a strong country, and that that's why America is still a strong country after several hundred years today. Yeah yeah, I mean, without playing deep into the politics side, I mean to your point, right, I mean, you said Russia and China are kind of diametrically opposed, but like the US is even more so. So it's kind of like

this enemy of my enemy is my friend. Kind of a thing, and you know, uh, maybe there you see a lot of China and Russia doing a lot of the same things until we'rekin on the opposite side. And I would hope I would like to see that the US would go, we'll shoot and and maybe with this kind of Cold war re escalating kind of a thing with Ukraine, they would the US would be like, well, shoot, tensions are high with China and Russia right now, so

we should take the opposite side of the bet. If they want to push bitcoin out, we should you know, use it. And we have this huge economic advantage to do so. We've taken over the big majority of the mining because bitcoin. China shot themselves in the foot with that. But unfortunately I'm seeing that may not be the case.

And so today, at the time of this recording, UM there was also a big conversation going on um in among all the lawmakers in the United States talking about what they should do in regards to proof of work versus proof of steak. Should they do something about that? Brian Brooks, formerly of of a coin Base and then of the o c C. He said, quote, it's not up to the government to decide if bitcoin is important to the country's future. That's the market end quote. But

that's not what they think. I want to dig in more to that when we come back. I mean the studio we're talking about bitcoin and decentral cryptocurrency. We're talking about the Bitcoin revolution. I'm innistry with Brandon Quidum. We're gonna come back and talk more about what's going on in this cycle and what they're talking about today. Don't miss it, don't go away, all right, welcome back. You're listening to the Mark Moa Show, and we're talking about bitcoin.

We're talking about the decentralized revolution, and uh, today we're talking a little bit more specifically. Um. I got Brandon Quitum in the studio with me, and we're talking about kind of this eighty year lens kind of zooming out, trying to get a little clarity how what we're seeing in the world today isn't random, it's actually repeated, repeated

throughout history. I mean, we're talking about kind of where some of this fits into bitcoin today, and we're just talking about how you see countries like China and Russia really trying to get uh, you know, push bitcoin out because it's opposite of what they want, which is freedom. They want to essentially plan a control app in the United States. Is the land of the free the United States. I grew up in anyway with the land of the free.

UM and and I was reading a quote here. So today, at the time of this recording, we had lawmakers talking about bitcoin and mining and cryptocurrencies and proof of work versus proof ofstaken and UH CEO Brian Brooks bit furious CEO said it's not up to the government to decide if bitcoin is important to the country's future. That's the markets, that's what he's saying. But we're kind of seeing the opposite. Um. Of course, good old Senator Elizabeth Warren, everybody's a favorite

champion of the free markets. She said, quote the extraordinarily high energy usage and carbon emissions associated with bitcoin mining could undo much of our work to tackle the climate, not to mention the harmful impacts of crypto mining has on local governments and electricity prices. And here's the best part. It's time for Congress and federal regulators to step up and address the serious risk that crypto poses to our

economy and our environment. So that part she's been saying this on and on, this is not the first time she said this the risk that cryptocurrency poses to our economy. Again, if people same thing that Russia said, if people have an outlet, it undermines our ability to manage the optimal economy. She's basically saying the same thing that Russia saying. It sounds like to me, I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, Unfortunately,

it's not surprising comments coming from Elizabeth Warren. Um. What really frustrates me here is that she claims to be one of the people, and she always fights for individual rights and individual financial freedoms especially, and she's very anti banks. When she fight for the individual's rights, or does she fight for a collective group of less empowered people. I think that's maybe a difference, right, She's trying to lump all everyone like kind of like kind of like Marxism

lumps the proletarians and the bourgeoisie together. So it's almost like, I don't know if she's fine for the individual or the collective group of these disempowered groups. Maybe Yeah, I think I think you're right, that is more accurate. Um. I guess the point I was trying to make is her what she wants to be perceived as is in anti banks. And yet what she's arguing here is that individuals should not be able to be their own bank,

as it were, by owning bitcoin. She's arguing that the existing financial system should be in charge of all economic

issues in the US. And to me, that sounds a lot like empowering the existing system, which doesn't seem to be working for quite a few individuals, and so I find that to be extremely um, a lot of hypocrisy, will say in her in your comments there, Yeah, so um, you had said in when you first opened up, you were saying that like these institutions, we've seen the rise or the growth of these institutions, you know, the continuing centralization,

the continuing growth of these things getting bigger. And then you had said that if they're not working for people anymore, and so there's a loss of trust in these institutions because they're not working for us anymore. And so if we kind of go back to that in light of what we talked about, right, um, where we have politicians like Elizabeth Warren trying to kind of grow o these institutions even bigger, to take more power away, but we're

not trusting them. Uh, they're not working for us. And then, in light of this eighty year cycle, where do you think things go from here? Or or maybe better yet, where does history tell us things go from here? Yeah, that's a good question, And this is the most common question I get when discussing the fourth turning is Okay, fine, I feel you on the thesis. But where do we go?

And history says that we're right around the late nineteen thirties if we would look to the previous fourth turning cycle, and so if you think about that time tail end of the Great Depression, UM FDR new Deal, we're just trying, we're building social security f D. I see a lot of changes, but what we haven't had yet is the beginning of World War Two. And historically in fourth turnings there's always a crisis period which is sort of the peak the crescendo of this this part of the cycle.

And it's my belief that we have not hit the crescendo yet. And I know that probably makes people a little bit nervous. Hey, the last for you have been kind of scary. How could it get worse? And I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but if I had to look to history, I would say that it's going to get worse, and so what does that mean for the individual? UM? That means prepare. It

means think about what what what your future is? Make yourself um anti fragile right, Maybe get a second passport, maybe own some bitcoin that no one can take from you, and just start to think what if things got worse? What if I lost my income? Um? Are you prepared for volatility? And hopefully that that time never comes? But I think it's prudent to prepare at this point. I wonder I did Two weeks ago, I did a show

I had just go on on. We were talking about this mass formation psychosis, which is uh got a lot of got a press and publicitly lately since Dr Malone was on Joe Rogan UM and I was talking about that. I don't know, have you have you heard any of that about the mass formation psychosis? Okay, so you've you've heard some of that. And what was interesting and I had actually heard was his name Dr Dmitri Uh. I heard him talk about it like four or five months

ago on Aubrey Marcus podcast. UM. But he was talking about how how do we how do we get into it? Which was people are disconnected, um, which I think is a breakdown in society, a breakdown of religion, a breakdown a morality, a breakdown of the family unit. Right, those things keep people connected. So you break those things. To the point you were making earlier, you break those things down. People are disconnected. Um. Each one is like a sort

of downstream. Then you have no, um, no sense of purpose. So if you're not connected, there's no sense of purpose that that makes sense. And then they have this this uh untethered anxiety. And then somebody comes along and says, this is the reason why I come with me. But more importantly I was thinking, um. He then said, the solution to come out of that is then we need to bring people. We need to connect people again. Um. If we connect people again, um, and then we want

to show them a better way. We can't say no, no, no, don't go over there, stay where you're at, because they're not happy with where they're at. We need to show them no, don't go that way, actually go this way. This is a better way. UM. And so I thought

that was really cool. It made me think about bitcoin, because this the central bank that the money printer has distorted all these areas of life that they're unhappy with, and if we can take them to a new sound money system, maybe that's somewhere that they want to go. But I'm curious how that may or may not fit into this fourth turning where you kind of have this fourth generation where they want to kind of recreate a new world. Does that fit in somehow? Yeah, I do

think it does. And just to touch on the mass formation psychosis really quickly, and then I'll connect it back to the bigger question you post two minutes. If we're going, yeah, okay, if we're gonna um, if we're going to get people out of this, assuming there is some sort of mass formation psychosis, turn off the news, find real friends locally, right, adopt bitcoin, just totally diverge yourself and and find other

friends who are willing to do such a thing. And if we tie it back to the big picture here, I think what bitcoin represents right now actually is the solution to our our Frain institutions, because bitcoin itself actually serves as an institution. It is sort of like a a property rights government, judge, jury executioner all in one, and so it provides the order that society needs today. And so I think this both fits in at the long term death cycle, right, we need to redo the

financial system. Okay, here's this bitcoin thing. And also it serves the social need where people are crying out for order. We're crying out for that one leader to give us that one solution. And it's my belief that bitcoin is best for the individual and also best for our planet as we go through this major transition at the end of another fourth turning. Yeah, it's just interesting. I know,

you know, each one of these cycles is different. And the fourth turning it's popularized, was the you know, hard times, great strong man, strong man, great great times, great times, week and week been bad times. I think about it like an eighty year cycle. You look at um Germany coming out of World War two. Country was destroyed, worse, hyper inflation. Ever, the people had to rebuild their country from their bare hands. Hard times created strong men. Germany

became the economic powerhouse of all of Europe. I mean, they've been the economic engine of Europe and here we are eighty years later. They only worked twenty eight hour weeks, their taxes are the highest, and the nation they've shut down all their energy and they're having extremely hard times right now, just eighty years later, which is amazing. Um, you're listening to the Markma Show. We're talking about bitcoin

from a long lens of history. I'm in the studio with Brandon quithum Um from Swan Bitcoin talking about kind of this fourth turning and how bitcoin fits into it. Uh,

don't go away back with more, everyone, welcome back. You are listening to the Markma Show and we're discussing bitcoin each and every week, of course, and this decentralized revolution that's going on and there's so many ways to look at this and one thing that I always loved and if you if you've been watching my YouTube channel for a long time, then you know I love to bring history in the one subject that I liked in school. Um. And if you're not watching my YouTube channel then you should,

so just check me out Mark Moss on YouTube. But we're talking. I'm in the studio with Brandon quit Um from Swan Bitcoin. You can find him at b quit Um on Twitter, and we're kind of talking about this uh eighty year cycle, this fourth turning generational theory kind of thing and how it fits into bitcoin and we're just kind of talking about this uh, mass formation psychosis.

That's and how that maybe fits in. Um. You know one thing, Brandon is uh, you'd you'd said, you know, the one question everybody wants to ask is like what comes next? And you said, well, maybe if we go back to UM, we kind of see that. Um. I was kind of looking at UM and I know this isn't something that you've maybe studied a lot, but if you zoom out, well, in the eighty year cycle, there's

also what's known as like a pendulum. And there's a book actually written called the Pendulum, and every eighty years goes between a me and a we cycle, so me being individualism and we being collectivism, and so it kind of swings back and forth over an eighty year cycle. And UM, right now we're peeking out at centralization. That's

where the pendulum is maxing out at. And the pendulum is going to swing back per you know this theory which they've been able to trace it back for thousands of years, UM, at least a thousand years maybe UM, And uh, we're you know, the peak centralization is maxing out,

will swing back to decentralization. So maybe I guess that's the direction that we go what's interesting is if you look at like a K wave chundurative wave theory, or you know, technological revolutions, they happen on in between a forty to sixty year time frame, about fifty years UM and so at a time when the world is maxing out on centralization and it's about to start swinging back to decentralization, we have a technological revolution, a K wave

that's starting with a new technology, the Bitcoin, that gives us exactly what we need, which is decentralization. Is pretty interesting. Yeah, I think the way have a lot of good points there, and I think there's some really nice parallels starting to form as we move from a centralized world to a primarily decentralized world. And you mentioned that the tech cycle right where it's very clear that we're in the information age.

On the information age gave us the Internet, it gave us remote work, it gave us a centralization of communication, all these wonderful things. And I do see the very very beginning of a new growth right in the in

the in the individual world. And so some parallels would be, um, let's say mass media, right, the large media institutions, the CNN, the New York times, shifting over to social media, which now feels to be absorbed by the state into now what we would maybe call independent media, things like Mark Moss, things like Joe Rogan having more viewership than CNN, and

all the things combined. UM. I think we're going to see a shift from centralized monetary systems like a dollar or any other feed of currency, towards a decentralized monetary system such as bitcoin. UM. I think we're starting to see a pushback from industrial education or what we would consider mainstream education, and we're seeing homeschool homeschooling on the rise,

growing exponentially, all these alternative online school type things. UM. We're also seeing the death of the wage earner and the rise of the creative economy right where young people aren't loyal to their employers, nor should they be. Um, it's more of an information economy where individuals go out there and solve problems and interact with the world. And and now all of a sudden, capital goes from physical goods machinery into ideas. Right. Um, we also have the

nine to five where you go into the office. Now you can work remotely, and so you sort of add all these things up and what do you get? You get a very different world. And I think we can also draw a thesis from another book I know you and I have talked about, which is a sovereign individual, which is that as we transition into the information age, we're going to see a separation from large nation states into smaller ones, sort of a Balkanization. And why does

this occur? While in an information economy there's actually diseconomies of scale where the largest um or the largest country is the one or the most powerful country is one of the largest military. Now it's the one with the most creative output or the most intangible capital. And so I see instead of maybe two or three hundred countries, I see maybe two thousand or three thousand countries, let's say,

over the next fifty years. And that's simply due to the fact that smaller, more nimble countries, let's say Singapore for example, in recent times, um they actually have an ability to take what we've learned from the previous age and upgrade our governments into more of an information age style. And I think that empowers the individual in all those ways we mentioned. Very optimistic. Yeah, that's a that's a

great take. I mean if you go back two hundred fifty years, UM, we had the start of the Industrial Revolution, and the industrial revolution started centralizing and so um that was the start of the factory, which was the start of the cities, and then the giant factories and workers and assembly lines and things like that. And so for the last two and or fifty years we've been on this central as centralizing scale, or or pendulum, if you will. And now that's starting to swing back the other way,

and now it's going to start decentralizing. So the centralization not only centralized people from the farms in the fields into cities and factories, but it also centralized economic activity into a country. So if you want to be successful, you had to be in America basically, So people left from all over the world to come to America. And then if you want to be successful America, you had to move to the big city because that's where the

jobs were. Um. But today, especially sped up by the pandemic, to your point, people are moving everywhere. So we see real estate blowing up in Wyoming and and uh, Montana and Idaho or whatever. People can finally go live where they want and still work. And then not even just that, but also they can move to Central America or or Mexico or whatever. I was. I drove from southern California in northern California like two weeks ago, go snowboarding and

um driving from Orange County up to Mammoth Mountain. It's about a six or seven hour drive with traffic, and for probably four of those hours you don't see anything like in California, Like you drive for like four hours of nothing. And I was just thinking about I was talking with my daughter and I was just like, you know, everything, Like people that think the world's overcrowded haven't really traveled, they haven't flown in an airplane or whatever, because it's

just people are super compacted in the cities. But that's because of the industrialization of the world. But I think things will really over the next fifty years, as you said, or even hundred years, things will really start spreading out more evenly throughout the country and throughout the world. It would be pretty amazing. I think, Yeah, I think you're right about that. And I guess the last piece I would add to that is that the in it has allowed us to do that and even move to Central

America or Mexico. But the money states centralized, they could still squeeze the money, and that is the missing piece. I think that really unlocks it. Yeah, that's a really good point. Right, we could we could move, let's say in two thousand seven, you could work remotely and travel around and make a living online. However you're still hamstring by the money, which is such a foundational element. And

so yes, bitcoin does represent money for everyone. It's a single economic language that the entire globe can can on board too. And people might be wondering in the West, well, we already have the dollar. The dollar works pretty well, which is true, right, Relatively, the dollar is strong. We have modern financial systems, but at least one billion, probably more like two billion people don't have any financial services.

They can't raise money, they can't open a bank account, they can't take out a mortgage, and so things we take for granted here in the West, um, are are things that bitcoin can solve globally. And you touched on another point which I would like to highlight, which is federalism. Right, states have their own ability to make their own laws, and our founding fathers made this a really big deal

during the formation of the country for a couple of reasons. One, it allows individuals in their local environment to choose the rules that best represent the people that are going to have to abide by those rules, So it's better for people. And at the same time, it offers a laboratory to experiment. If you want to live in New York and have those rules, fine, move there, do what you do, and

we'll watch and see the results. And if you want to move to Texas and have different rules, okay, we'll see the competition and we'll let the best, the best ideas rise to the top and then they can be distributed. So practical and moral, yeah, that's the best. Vote with your feet, vote with your money. But it only works if you can actually move and vote in different areas. When you federalize it or centralize it all doesn't work as as well. That's why I believe the world shifts

is actually through competition, not through war. Let's into the Markmas Show. We're talking about bitcoin and the decentralized revolution. I'm in the studio with Brandon Quitum from swan Bitcoin. Check them out swan Bitcoin, check out b quit Um on Twitter. Um and that's it. Thanks for listening.