The Mark Moss Show Dec 10, 2021

today I have something special. I'm sitting down in the studio with my good friend Peter McCormick. You've probably heard of him. He runs the biggest podcast in bitcoin, What Bitcoin Did? You should definitely be checking out, And I recorded a monster episode with him um yesterday, so stay tuned for that coming out. But Peter, thanks so much for sitting down with me today. Look, thanks for having me Mark. I told you I don't like being a guest, but I was very happy to have you on my

show yesterday. That bols a monst the show. I can't wait to get that out. Yeah, I can't wait to get that out as well. It was It was fun because it was a thesis that I've been working on and i've presented to a camera talking on a YouTube video gets very lonely, like you're just talking to a camera all the time. There's like no if you back, and I've done it on stage once or twice. But to be able to like discuss it was was super cool. Well, I think it's gonna start a chain of sessions we're

gonna do now. I already know the next one we're gonna make following up from that. I can see us doing this every six months now, which will be great because I think you are an absolute gem and I think the knowledge you've brought with this thesis you've got incredible. So thank you so much, Thanks Peter. I appreciate that, and I would also, you know, say the same compliment you as well. Um you know your interviews. I've been listened to him for a long time. I think you've

done like four hundred episodes or something. I think it's so several years, and I love I love your approach because you're so curious with your questions and so um you know, you ask questions that I don't typically think of, and I think it's been really good. So i'd recommend everyone listen to that. But I want to dig in a little bit. I mean, you've been doing this for like four years now talking about bitcoin, um, and you've been traveling all over the world. I guess, uh, you've

probably learned a lot from talking to these people. One of the things that I think, I like to think of bitcoin is like a bait and switch. People come in on the price I want to get rich, and then we get to the bait and then we get switched into going dang, like this is like a technology that could like give us freedom or like in the state or like things like that. Do you see it

like something like that? Yeah, I do. I do. I think about it like in terms of my life, there's like before bitcoin and after bitcoin, which you know it sounds a little bit cringe or hyperbolic, but um, I think when you start to understand money, and you start to understand your relationship with money, it starts to affect your relationship with other parts of your life. Historically, before bitcoin, I I would say I was one financially literate and

to financially irresponsible. I've always had good jobs and own good money, but I was never really good at conserving my capital or deployed particularly well. And I've learned a very painful lesson in my first year in bitcoin. And you know, I was traded bitcoin also of trading all coins, and I made and lost a lot of money very quickly, and it was a very painful lesson. But I had to kind of do a three six at that point and think, Okay, I don't want to do this again.

This is painful. So I spent time going down the rabbit hole. I tried to conserve my capital with bitcoin and doing that that kind of brought a whole shift to a number of elements of my life in terms of thinking about the future and what I want out of life. So I just think, what it does? It? You know, it teaches you about time preference, something safety. He talks about a lot um and that time preference

thing isn't just a financial thing. It's affects every aspect of your alive and then secondary for that and it does. This doesn't get everyone, but it has for me. It's pushed me closer to thinking about how the world works, governance, democracy, freedom, And yeah, I've been you know, not as much as some bitcoins, but I've certainly been pushed down that rabbit hole just thinking a lot about how the world is and how the kind of world we want to live in. Yeah,

it's uh, it is. It's kind of a bait and switch on that way too. It coming in to make yeah, coming in to get rich. And then I mean, you're stay for the revolution, stay for the revolution. But the it's the education revolution, right, It's got all these people like interested. I wanted to talk about that. The very first show that I did on the station is UM. I had Alex Gladstin on, and the reason why I had him on is I said, look, the first thing I want to talk about is not money. I want

to talk about human rights. Yes, and I want to establish that that's what we're talking about on this show. However, of course I still talk about the price on the show, because it's the bait and switch. And so we saw this week bitcoin's price dipped all the way back down to where it was a few weeks ago. Um. The new variant, I guess is spook in the markets and bitcoins price dip. Is that something that you pay attention to.

I mean I pay attention to price of course, because of my net wealth is in bitcoin, probably more now, maybe closer to you know, if you take away my assets like my house and my car, it's pretty much everything is in bitcoin. So I do pay attention to price. But also if you I talked about this with someone previously that once you've done four years in bitcoin, it becomes easy. It's like your's your first tour of duty

that starts. Your hands get stronger. Yeah, your hands get stronger, and then price affects you less because one you've experienced it, but hopefully you've been through one of those ten x five, ten x periods. So even though the total number dip is quite significant, you should be in a better financial position. So I pay attention to price, and I do get wrapped up in the excitement when the price runs up, but I also try to kind of bring myself back

and say, well, what does this actually mean? You know, what does this mean for other people? But yeah, I mean it's it's hard not to get caught up in price sometimes. And you know what the interesting on the price right now, it's about the same price it was in February, which was like, huh really, So if you told me that it was a bit of a surprise. Yeah, we haven't had a lot of traction this year. I mean we jumped from I think we started the year

thirty thousand, so we're almost double. But I mean it jumped really quickly to February to your point, right, and we've kind of fallen back down. By the way. You're listening to the Mark mar Show, and of course we're talking about bitcoin, and I'm sitting in the studio with with Peter McCormick for what bitcoin did. Check him out. Now we're talking about bitcoin, obviously we're talking about the

price action. Um. I try to not get too excited when the price goes up because I don't want to get too excited when it goes up, because I don't want to feel like the press when it comes down. I constantly say that the price is a distraction, right, I mean, if you're in it for the education, the revolution, the technology, whatever, the price is just a distraction. I say, there's two things that we should really be focusing on,

not the price. The things we should be focused on one and in a new technology, we'd focus on the the growth of the network metcast law. Is the network expanding and to the development on the network is the is the network growing? Is the development happening on the network and I think as long as those two things continue to grow, then the price takes care of itself. Yeah,

and that's been happening. I mean, we had a massive upgrade to the network, we say with top proods something I don't understand fully what it's about, but I'm aware of what it brings to the network. We have, interestingly,

a growing investment in developers in the network. We have a decentralization of the developers in the network with you know, historically a lot of developers are based out in the US, but John Newbery created a brink in the UK to support open source derev where a lot of the companies have started investing in supporting open sourced coin base, even

did it um. So that's for me, that reassures me that that there are people out there who care for the network, care that there's enough developers and ensuring that we have this kind of decentralized base of developers. So that's super important. But I also agreed, like growth of the network and in growth in the network comes with

a couple of things. There's obviously the amount of people are buying and accumulating bitcoin and holding it, which is super important, but also just this general awareness that's happening with bitcoin, whether it's the institutional adoption, whether it's whether it's the media reporting and good or bad. The growth in podcast I mean, there's so many podcasts now, so that all the things that sit outside of bitcoin itself that adds to the network, that support its growth, that

support the education is also that's super important. And this last year, I mean it's funny. It's mark you can go online almost every day and see a story which is the kind of story four years ago which would have had read it going absolutely wild. And we kind of stories like that every day. It might be a bank in Thailand, it might be an institution in the US, it might be what's happening in El Salvador. But there's

big news constantly happening with bitcoin. And you know, we talked about yesterday and you took you know, you mentioned the network takes, you know, a period to get to ten percent, and the time it takes the ten percent, it's the same period it goes from ten to ninety. I feel like we're about to do that ten to ninety. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So we have the growth of the network, like the user base, so that's the Metcalf's lots like

Dublin is becoming more valuable. And then the development, as you said, there's all these people developing. We have all these companies developing. This week we had big news of maybe an even bigger development happening. And one thing is it's the growth of the network, the development, but also the mind share that's being sucked into it. We had the c foe of Ray Dalio's Bridgewater Capital leave Bridgewater Capital, the biggest hedge fund, to go work at a bitcoin company.

And we had a bigger announcement this week which I want to share with you in just a minute. By the way, you're listening to the Mark mo Show. We're talking about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies in the decentralized Revolution. I'm in the studio with my good friend Peter McCormick from the host of What Bitcoin Did, and we're talking about ignore the price. It's a distraction, but there's two bigger things that you should focus on. There was big news this week that just broke. I want to discuss when we

come back from a break. So don't go away, all right, welcome back. You are listening to the markma Show, and we're talking about bitcoin. Of course, each and every week we're talking about cryptocurrencies. We're talking about the de centralized revolution. And I'm in the studio with a special guest, my good friend Peter McCormick. He's the host of What Bitcoin Did, probably the biggest bitcoin only podcast. You should be checking it out for sure. I was just on their last

night recording, so make sure it tuned on that. Now. Before the break, we were talking about how the price of bitcoin it's down a little bit, all the way down to where it was a couple of weeks ago. And I was saying, how the bitcoin price is a distraction. I think it is the short term prices distraction. We want to look at the growth of the network and the development of the network. Now, I was teasing that there was some big news this week, and that is

that the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey, stepped down. Um, we don't know all the details of that, but he stepped down and he's running Square, which he's now rebranded from Square to Block. And then he had Square Crypto, which was a company that I think helps the bitcoin ecosystem grow. They rebranded that to Spiral and the news says that Spiral is going to be now funding open source dev for bitcoin, and he wanted to change the

name because he don't want to say crypto. He just wanted to be bitcoin only and development on the network, stealing some of the best mind share in the world to come work to dedicate the rest of his career. It seems like on bitcoin, I mean, you gotta be bullish on that. Yeah, I mean, I think it's something that's been coming or for quite some time. Jack, as the CEO of Twitter has it could take a lot of flak over this last year or two, specifically with

regards to censorship on Twitter. And I think there's a couple of things that play here. I'm only guessing. I can't answer for him. But firstly, whilst he's the CEO, there is a board, and there's a management team within the company, and the company has a share prize, and I think internally there's two pressures. Firstly, it's monetization of Twitter. Twitter has always kind of put monetization to the back.

Whilst it's you know, it does bring in significant revenues, it's been way behind something, for example, like Facebook, but for the benefit of Twitter, I think of Twitter is more like the tortoise and Facebook as the hair. Now Facebook is facing the situation when nobody really trusts it. No one trusts Huckerberg, and I don't. I don't really know the long term position of Facebook is because most people I talked it, they're like, I don't really use

it anymore. I know the kids don't use it. So I think he's done a really good job of being a steward of Twitter and making sure he doesn't ruin the it doesn't ruin the experience of Twitter by filling in it with commercial opportunities. I can imagine there is some pressure internally to expand the commercial revenue opportunities with Twitter, and that may be to the detriment of the experience.

We've just seen now on my Twitter, Like every time there's a tweet, you're going to read the replies, there's always an ad there now, and it's just annoying. It ruins the experience. So I think that's one pressure. But I think the censorship one is a big issue. There are a lot of people concerned that the leader of the free world, Donald Trump, could be removed from Twitter.

How he was. I won't get into the what I think of that, but there's also been a lot of Yeah, there has been a lot of action on Twitter in terms of like people being censored or removed for sharing opinions, you know, having thoughts discussed some particular topics, you know, specifically one with the election and two with COVID. I don't think Jack likes this, but I don't think he gets to control every decision within the company. And I think, you know, is he in it for the money. He

doesn't need the money. So I think he's such a mission driven person. He's realized the best impact he can now have on the wall it is with freedom money, and it was with bitcoin, and now he's focused on that and he's going to work on that, and I salute that. I'm a big fan of Jack, so I think of him as a proper bitcoin Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's that's a good insight into that. By the way, you're listening to the Markma Show, we're talking about bitcoin.

I'm sitting down with Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did, and we're talking about how bitcoin is sucking in some of the greatest mind share in the world. And Jack Dorsey, who's built some amazing companies with Square and Twitter has now left to go work on bitcoin full time. I was saying last night we were talking about, um, you know, the direction of the world. Things aren't looking so bright in the short term. I think they're right

in the long term. And I made a comment, I said, I'm bullish on what happens when millions of entrepreneurs backs are up against the ball. And Jack is one of those entrepreneurs, and so, um, you know, you have all these people that are like we call them no coiners, right or crypto people, and they're like, I think bitcoin's scam. I think bitcoin's ridiculous. I think bitcoin's pondsy. Bitcoin is never gonna go in whatever it is, right, And I'm like,

are you smarter than Jack Dorsey? Are you smarter than Michael Sailor? Like? Do you put yourself there? I certainly don't. I'm humble enough to recognize that. You know, we're all geniuses in different ways. But when you see someone like Jack at Dorsey leave to go work on bitcoin, I mean, it's got to be reassuring, at least for me. Yeah, totally reassuring. Look, I mean he has the luxury of being able to work on whatever he wants. Not everybody has that, But why would he choose that? If that's

he can do anything he wants. Well, I mean I think he's mission driven. What he realized is that important? Yeah, I think he realized it's important. He's mission driven. You know, he's clearly somebody has a conscience. He clearly has empathy in the world. You can see where he supports projects and where he puts money towards and he does a lot of that while in the face of having a huge amount of critics. Um, I just think there's like when he comes down to bitcoin versus say, all coins,

I think it comes down to do you care? Like, what do you care about? You know? Because bitcoin is a chance to make money, but it's also a mission. Like we had a long, deep conversation and that has had a profound effect on me. I can't stop thinking about it, and it's made me realize the mission here is that if we do this, if we separate money and state, we create this great form of decentralized money,

the impact on the world could be profound. It can take us away from a very scary outcome that's happening now where we are sliding towards totalitarianism across the world in places where you wouldn't exist in places that talk about freedom, like the US is meant to be the front lines of freedom, and Boris Johnson talks about the UK being a bastion of freedom. Not really, we are slipping into totalitarianism. So yeah, bitcoin is one of the most powerful weapons we have. What else would you want

to work on? Well, both of us sitting here right now, by the way, you're listening to the market my show, we're talking about bitcoin. We're sitting down with Peter McCormick from what bitcoin did, but both of us have decided to dedicate our careers to working on bitcoin as well. So, um, we've already done it. Obviously Jack's at a whole other level. But I mean, it's just assuring and like I said, the short term price, it's a distraction. It's gonna take

care of itself. I think you want to focus on I talked about it. I I still am, but I started my career as a real estate investor and I talked about it like, um, let's say that you know

outside of town, Um, there's nothing out there. It's like empty, and we're at the city council meeting, and they said, hey, we're gonna build a new stadium out a footballer stadium out there in five years, right, And we're like, dang, tomorrow, let's go buy some land around that area because once that stadium was gonna be worth a lot of money. So we buy the lamb and in a year from now the lot next to us is cheaper. What should

we panic? Should we sell the lot? Well, I don't know is the is the stadium still on track, are they working on the plans, have they got the permits, do they have the funding? And if all those things are there, we should maybe buy the cheaper land, right or if they found out that there's nuclear waste on the land, we'll shoot. We should probably sell as fast as we can. And so like the price is dipped, but Jack is leaving to go keep working on right.

The development is still happening. Blocks are still being produced every ten minutes um anyway, so there's nothing goes up in the straight line, you know, if you go back. We talked yesterday about the Internet. I was there at the start of the Internet. I was coding HTML pages, I was developing websites, and back then I didn't buy any shares and companies. But I remember the crash, remember pet dot com. I remember with than and you know

there were survivors. One of the survivors was Amazon, but their share price was really hit, dropped from it went from five to eighty and then like back down to five. Yeah. And you know some people would have thought, oh the prices did, maybe I should sell this, maybe I should be scared, but smart people accumulated. Look at the share price. Now Amazon is like one of the top three largest companies in the world. So listen, that's going to happen

with bitcoin. But the truth is with bitcoin is that good money kills bad. Good money kills bad, and bitcoin is good money. So whether it goes up and down, I don't care. I'm thinking about five to ten years, Mark, I'm thinking about what my money means to me then, and will bitcoin be worth more than five to ten

years certainly. Yeah. You're listening to the markma Show. We're sitting down with Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did, probably the largest podcast in the bitcoin space, and we're gonna be right back all right, Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark Moa Show, where we are talking about bitcoin each and every week. Make sure pull out your phone put a reminder join me each and every week. It's going to be the most profitable, the most important

part of your week talking about bitcoin the largest. It's it's what I call the largest asymmetric opportunity will ever have in our life. And the way that you participate in asymmetric opportunity is by having asymmetric information. You've got to know information that most people don't have, and the majority of people don't have this information about bitcoin, which is why you should join me each and every week

so I can give you that asymmetric information. Now, today I'm in the studio with Peter McCormick, the host of Whip Bitcoin did, and we're talking about specifically right now about how the prices is a bait and switch. People come in for the price and then they get switched. We talked about how um it's a short term distraction. I think we should be focusing on the growth of the network and the development, and of course we have

massive development. Even bigger development is something Peter, that you've been involved with from the beginning, and that's El Salvador Um and I know you've been going down there for a couple of years now, I think right about two years, about two years now, and obviously at this point, I mean, if you're listening to the show, you've probably heard me talking about bitcoin in El Salvador. I've been down there as well. Big news, right, they've it's a currency there.

Now they have the bitcoin bonds. Um, it's big news. It's development, it's growth of the network. Now there's a few million users down there, I think, and then there's development on the networks and now they're doing bonds and they have their own apps and things like that. UM, talk to us about those early days when you started going down there. Yeah. So what happened was I was in I requaied for the bit Confident and stood outside

the hotel. Michael Peterson comes up and introduced him, introducing himself to me and said, I just want to tell you about this project I've got in El Salvador. It's helping kids girls the street avoid gangs and and a bit of money and we're doing it with bitcoin. And I was like, oh, it sounds cool. He's like yeah. I was like, well, let me just give me a second. I just went on my phone and I found a fly and said I can come there in two days.

You tell me about it. So I quarter fled to Panama and then a flight from Panama to El Salvador, and I went down and saw the project. But it was small, and I was like, yeah, it's just cool, this is cute. Whatever forgot all about it, you know. I stayed in touch with Michael, but it didn't think much of it. I didn't think this was the seed that would grow to be a country making bitcoin legal tender.

And then Jack Marl has headed down there. Our mutual friend Jack went down there, you know, brought strike down there, and then he had a meeting with the president and here we are. You know, in two years, it's gone from that small seed planted by Michael Peterson to be the first country to adopt bitcoin, which is incredible. Yeah, yeah, it is incredible. I love how it seemed to work. And you correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like it was a bottom up approach, right, So it

was started as a little community plant. Um it did good for the community. You kind of grew from there and then I'm guessing and you tell me, but it seems like maybe the president saw what was going on down there and said, dang, like, what the heck is going on? Oh? Bitcoin, that's pretty cool, let's make it bigger.

Is that kind of happened? Well? Yeah, I mean, look, he's a president who's much more in touch with the modern world than most leaders of them because he's worked forty years old instead of Biden that's eighty or whatever. He's really in touch and touch with the young people. And he's somebody who's obviously cares about his own career. But look, Bitcoin, the history of bitcoin has been about outliers.

People are brave enough to consider this. And you know, in the early days, it was the cipher punks, and then some few nerds came and got involved and started accumulating bitcoin and put themselves on a bitcoin standard. And then we moved to have a company going to a bitcoin standard, which was micro Strategy, and now we have a country. These are just natural steps. And every single

time the brave outlies have been proven right. They've been proven right in their choice, they've been proven right economically, and they've reaped the benefits. And do you know what. El Salvador has had a tough history of gang violence and war, something that they always want to move on from the President said, we don't want to be known for this, and now they're going to be known for

something else. And I am entirely confident without I don't even have to be in confident in Boukeley, but I'm entirely confident in the country reaping the benefits from this. And you know, once this bond sells, this first bitcoin bond, once they raise a billion and put that into that, other countries are going to look and go, what hold on, we can raise money on the open market without the I m F. And this is a bond people want to put money into, and we can invest this money

and grow a country. And we have this sound money. Basis why when other countries look at this, other countries who were struggling. So this is this is just the one another big part in the revolution. And look, Mark, one thing I think about is, you know, if this works in a few decades, people going to look back and go, the world is a very different place. Now. What happened with this bitcoin thing? What is the story? You know, this thing that changed the world. You talk

about different technologies. I talked about the engines that move markets. You know, I believe bitcoin is akin to the light bulb, to electricity, to the railroad. It is something that's going to shift the world mainly for the mainly for the better, the better. So why else would you want to work on this. You can look back and go I was part of this. I did my bit to help this

change happened. I think. I think it's really exciting. Yeah, if you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Markma Show, we're talking about bitcoin. Of course, each and every week, the decentralized revolution is happening. I'm sitting down in the studio with Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did, and we were talking about the growth of the network and the development. We're talking about El Savadoor right now.

Just to catch you up. Um, you mentioned earlier that you know, the United States is supposed to be the land of the free, and then you mentioned Boris Johnson from the UK. Of course we're here from he wants it to be the bastion of freedom, I think you said, or whatever. If that's the bastion of liberty, we got a problem in our on our hands. And and look

at back to El savador Um. In the last couple of weeks, Um, the President removed all restrictions and all mandates from getting in and out of the country, COVID restrictions mandates. In regards to that, Um announced a the Bitcoin City where you can anybody can come and start building and you can have a business with no cap gain taxes and no income taxes. Um and he's basically made an open invitation to come live your best life, have the chase life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

and property, build your businesses, he said. He's I think he said come and make as much money as you want. That seems like a bastion of liberty. I mean, it's a it's a stark contrast to the United States and the UK. Well I interviewed Mayor Frances here in Miami yesterday and they they're very similar characters. And and the thing that I think is really like the thing I don't identified with both of them, they actually operate like CEOs.

They don't operate like political leaders. They operate like CEOs. They run the jurisdiction, whether it's the whole country or else Alvador, the city of Miami. They running like a company and they're looking to grow that company, and they're looking to serve the people who work for that company, the constituents, And I mean that's really the way should be. Politicians are meant to be there to serve us, that's the voters and the constituents. We're not meant to serve them.

I feel like, I feel like if you look at what's happening in Europe, the UK, and the US Australia, it's got to the point now we serve them. We are the people that serve them, and we are we are subserving to their needs and their wants, and we're almost being parented by people who are essentially morons. People I don't I wouldn't trust to run a company. You wouldn't hire any of them. I wouldn't hire any of them.

That these people are idiots. So it's a really it's really interesting position that puts US in where we've got these opportunities. Now it's like, well, I you know, the US has it better because you know, you have the state rights and you have the ability to move from state to state, and it's not perfect, but it's better than what we have in the Utue. But we now

have as a sovereign individuals on international basis. I can leave the UK, I can go and live in El Salvador and live a freer, happier life potentially, And having that optionality is one of the things that I think we'll drive bit coming forward. Bitcoinners are getting wealthier and wealthier, and they have the and to take that capital and

their wealth wherever they wanted to deploy it. He's recognized that, and I think this is a real shift in the way countries and you know, maybe states and cities will be wrong when people suddenly realize the benefits of bitcoin. Yeah, that's a great point. And it adds on to what we were talking about last night, which is kind of the direction the world is going. And I was making the case, um that obviously the world is trending towards authoritarianism.

And I don't believe that thing that breaks that is war. I think the thing that breaks that as competition. And that's exactly what you're talking about, right. We have the ability to go move and take our wealth with us. Of course, if your wealth is in real estate, you can't take that anywhere. Um, if your wealth is in the bank, a lot of times they don't let you take that with you either. You can't carry gold with you, so what do you do? Bitcoin is really the only

option for that. I want to get more into that the competition side. Um, you had mentioned last night, the butterfly effect. Let's let's talk about where we think this can go. Um, we'll game plan, we'll we'll game that out a little bit. By the way, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about the giant decentralized revolution that is changing the world.

Not just a new technology it's going to make things increminentally better, but a new technological revolution that will literally change the way humanity works. So you want to know about this, you want to participate in this. It's the greatest wealth transfer you'll ever see. Make sure you're tune in with me. We're gonna be right back with Peter McCormick, the host of Whip Bitcoin did so, don't go away,

all right, Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark mo Show where we're talking about bitcoin, talking about cryptocurrencies, and we're talking about the decentralized revolution. It's gonna be big, it's gonna change the world. You don't want to miss out on this. And I think. By the way, I'm sitting in the studio with my good friend Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did. You can find them on Twitter at Peter McCormick, and of course I'm on Twitter.

At one Mark Moss shout out at us, asks a question and tell us you heard us on the radio. We're talking about bit woin. We're talking about how, um, it's the prices of distraction, how it's pulling in some of the greatest mind share in the world. Like like Jack Dorsey left Twitter, he's now working on bitcoin full time. And we have countries now like El Savadoor that adopting it. H. We were talking earlier about how um you I call it debate and switch, we get sucked in and then

we want to increase our freedom, our education. UM. Now we're seeing it being used for freedom and economic freedom, financial freedom and even potentially um personal freedom right if you moved to a country like El Savador that says come and be free. Um. And in contrast of countries in the UK and the US that are trying to lock people down even more. I think we both agree um with Jack, that it's probably the most important thing that we can be working on right now, which of

course why we're both working on at full time. Um. One thing that I would want to talk about is how can other people get involved with this? Now? I know you're a marketing guy, you're a business guy, um, and so you've had a lot of businesses and you've kind of found a way. So there's content creation, there's development. I mean, but I think there's just like Jack just like asked them, and there's no greater thing to work on. So what do you think about the average person, like,

how could they get involved with this? With this revolution? Yeah, it's a it's a great question. Um. I get a lot of emails of listeners saying do you have a job, or how do we get a job? Or how do I get involved in bigco. I think it grabs people. Mark. I think people once they've gone down that Rabbet hole and they've had that kind of like orange build moment, that like this is all I want to work on. I think there's a number of things you can do. I mean, firstly, you can just look for a job

in bigcoint go and work for a bitcoin company. But if you if you want to keep your job, you want to do something else. You can create content. I mean, I've got a podcast. You've got a podcast. When I launched it had zero listeners, and I think I had a thousand followers on Twitter and launched a podcast, and then I have maybe a hundred listeners and it just grew and grow and grow. So you can launch a podcast, you can write, you can just set up a medium

blog starts sharing your ideas, running your ideas out. You can run and start a meetup. You can go to meetups, you can go to events and meet people. The great thing about the bitcoin community is that whilst it can be fractured, it's also super tight and you can go to any city in the world and you can go to a meetup and you'll find a bunch of people who can become friends overnight and you can talk to you about bitcoin. So there's lots of opportunity out there.

Content creation is a really easy first step. You know, with a few dollars, like a hundred dollars, you can probably set up a podcast. You can use your mobile, you can sign up to a website like Anchor, and you can just publish your shows and you can sell sign up to something. Our medium just start riding straight away.

There's so much opportunity out there. And the more people who jump on board and do this, who work in bitcoin, who work for bitcoin companies, who create content, the bigger this network grows, and the fast that we get to that point where we actually have bitcoin out there, we actually have bitcoin out there being used by as many people, and we start to push forward this decentralized revolution. Like everybody is part of this. You, I, the listeners, the riders,

the developers, everyone's part of this. And everyone can be part of this. Yeah they can. And so I mean, one, you could just pay attention and learn, and then you could just share that with your friends and your family wa locally of course, and then of course if you want to take it to the next level. I just hired a research assistant and writer from Australia, some kid that's just started writing. You put out a couple of good blogs and they caught my eye and I was like,

I'll hire you. Done right, Um so content creation writing. UM I started a YouTube channel a couple of years ago. You can grab your phone and just go live right from your phone. I mean, so there's that. There's a million ways that you can do it, I think, Um, if you're more into like the coding and that type of stuff, which I'm not, but I think there's gonna

be massive demand. And from some some of my friends that are building in the bitcoin space, they tell me that the bitcoin space is going to be overwhelmed with the need for people that can develop and code and things like that on it. So there's those types of opportunities. It's kind of endless, even um, I mean, even making

products that are geared for the bitcoin industry. You were talking about I don't know if you want to talk about the football thing, but you were talking about Um, I'm from the US, so we call football something different, but I did. I did grew up playing soccer though, um I think. I mean, it's one of the biggest sports in the world. Um, it's not in the United States for some reason. But you were talking about how you have started a club or bought a club that

you're hoping to grow. Um. And when you were laying that plan out for me last night, what was interesting is you think you can grow it from a small team to a premier team by focusing on bitcoin. Yeah. Absolutely, Look, there's two things that are conversion at the same time, it's a personal goal that I've always had to own my local club Bedford and get them in the Football League. And the need to communicate all the desire to communicate bitcoin and what it means to people. So what better

way bring the two together. Football is a UK British European football, not you call a soccer um. It is an industry which is run on whilst having billions and billions pounds going into it. It's on tight lines, like a lot of clubs go into administration. I think sixty of the eighty there's been sixty clubs going into administration in the last thirty years. I mean, that's ridiculous. It's because football is expensive, because players are pensive, but it

really is a symptom of feat money. You know, these clubs are in Barcelona, I think are hundreds of millions in debt, same with Real Madrid. These are debt based companies buying players they can't afford with the desire to win, but doing it on a feed standard. And I'm like, well, let's do the opposite. Let's go on a bitcoin standard. Let's build a club that builds wealth and capital, not debt, not be debt based and at the same time doing that.

If we get this right, we can climb through the league's and we can communicate the benefits of bitcoin to the billions of people around the world who love football. So to me, the too conversion at the same time, and it's going to be a hell of a ride. Yeah. So some of your ideas were like I think branding the jersey of course with some bitcoin staff, and I mean like really kind of using bitcoin as the kind of like almost like a marketing angle kind of thing.

I mean, well, I've got leverage marketing having the bitcoin show that you know, decent sized following on Twitter. I have advantage over all the other small clubs in the same league I'm in in that I can create a shirt and I can sell no fulle sell thousands of these, and I can sell sponsorship to bitcoin companies, and I can use a pr marketing plan to communicate our go go globally and hopefully create a global brand the football

club that the bitcoin is followed. So that gives me an advantage over all these other clubs, and that I can I've got a bigger fan base to tap into and a bigger revenue model to tap into. But with that we take the profits we hold in bitcoin. We have sound money and we don't have there, so to me, all these things converge at the same time to essentially disrupt an industry and kind of show that things can be done differently. But like a bitcoin standard can be

for anyone. It can be for an individual, a country, a company, a football club, it can be for any of them. We're just going to be the first football club. Yeah, we we only have a couple of minutes left. But give us the short version of the plan which you kind of laid out last night. If if you're okay with that, which is raising the money in bitcoin, holding it in bitcoin, letting it grow, borrowing against the bitcoin, and then you think you can basically get the team

up to the Premier league. Give us a short roosion of that. Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. So first few years we don't need a treasury. We can in terms of a commerce and sending our merchandise and sending sponsorships. We can bring in way more money than it costs to run the club, and that allows us to get the best players to move up through the leagues. But at the same time, I want to do a fan offering, and I want to raise a significant amount of capital

and hold that in a bitcoin treasury. And listen, if bitcoin does what it does, then that treasury will grow faster than we can use it. And even if it gets to the point we want to use part of it, say you know, we get to the football league and we need to expand the ground. Rather than sell the bitcoin, will borrow against the bitcoin so we don't have to sell it, so our sound money keeps appreciating value. Honestly, people think going to think I'm ridiculous with this. Nobody's

gonna think I can do this. Everyone's gonna laugh at me. But I know my plan is my plan is sound because my plan is based on sound money. My plan is based on a bitcoin standard, and that's absolutely changed. My life is changed. Michael Sailor's life is changing the lives of people in El Salvador. So we're just gonna be the first football club on a bitcoin standard, and we're going to go out there and we're gonna make this happen. I love the plan, and I think it's

got a good chance of success. I mean, obviously there's a bunch of variables there, um and that goes back to just what we were talking about last night about a lot of people are wondering what the future holds, and will the dollar remain the reserve currency, or will we go back to a gold standard or whatever? Will the Chinese you want to take over? But they're all looking for the centralized answer. But the future is decentralized,

and so I'm on these I'm on the standard. You are you're starting a football team that's on the standard, you know, corporate players like Michael Strategy and then countries like Al Salvador. So the future is decentralized, and it starts with each of us, every each and every one of you listening right now, which are listening to the Mark Moa Show, and we're talking about bitcoin each and every week. We're talking about the decentralized revolution, which is

the biggest wealth transfer over see. I've been in the studio with my good friend Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did. Check them out and make sure put a calendar reminder on your phone for this channel at this time each and every week. It will be the biggest, the most profitable part of your week. Thanks for listening.