Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Mark Moss Show, where we always talk about the decentralized revolution, talking about the way the world is changing, and of course we always look at it through the lens of politics, finance,
and technology technologies. The technology always the piece that changes the world as we know, and so we like to dig into that and I try to bring to you some thought provoking pieces to help you think about the world differently, some latest breaking news headlines, and some interesting guests that you don't have to just listen to me all the time. And that's what we have for you today.
I'm sitting down with Christopher Calcott. He is the co founder and managing director at Trammel Venture Partners TVP, based out of Austin, Texas, and he is an investor.
Of a fund. We're going to dig into that.
So we're going to talk about what's going on with the overall macro investing space, the environment for investing and not just public equities, but into private equity, mergers, acquisitions, venture capital, things like that.
We're going to talk about the state.
Of bitcoin and crypto, bitcoin investor, venture capital, investing, some deals, some things that are looking at some of the most interesting things and then we'll start to maybe have fun.
Speculate about where this future goes.
So stick around for this whole conversation. Christopher, thanks so much for joining me today.
Thanks for having me. Mark's good to see you again.
Yeah, great scene.
It is always a pleasure talking to you. You know, this is a topic that I'm super interested in always. I'm always paying attention to this as as someone who invests through the bitcoin ecosystem buying bitcoin, yes, but through the ecosystem as well. And it's also something that's been kind of top of mind as I'm working through this presentation. I'm about to go give it a bit block boom.
But let's talk about this from a from a top down approach, and so, how do you see the macro picture overall affecting you know, the public markets, but then the relationship to more institutional investor investing.
It's a great question and a really interesting moment in history, I would say, given how things have been folded back to twenty nineteen and certainly twenty twenty moving forward through COVID. Obviously, in public markets there was a big boom cycle last year, though we've seen really large retracements bottom is probably put in. It looks like inequities markets this year a bit of
a rebound. But what's happened in the interim is that whenever there's some fear in the market, typically the M and A activity drives up, and large institutional allocators, which we can talk about. I think it's interesting with Bitcoin native, where we're focused day to day, adventure capital have not, for the most part, really gotten off zero, and what we're thinking about now is when this actually picks back up.
We had the great fortune in our first fund back in Q four, we had a company that was an apply to I company outside of the bitcoin native space that actually completed an acquisition. I was super excited and happy for the founders and their families. It was their first company that they founded. But interestingly, they actually got
that transaction closed in Q four. Q four of twenty twenty two and Q one this year were about a fifteen year EBB in the M and A activity full stop, and so it felt like a bit of a small miracle they got that done, but they did. And what that means though for institutional limited partners is with the down market in public equities, you know, their entire book is suddenly out of balance. They have target investment thresholds of course for asset classes like venture capital, and suddenly
they found themselves overweight relative to equities. And furthermore, with the liquidity events slowing down dramatically at this fifteen year EBB, they suddenly were liquidity starved. And so the short way to say it is that new allocators to managers in venture capital and private equity more broadly slowed down pretty dramatically, and so they had relationships and commitments existing, so they
had to re up with some of those. So those are some of the direct impacts for private markets and alternative assets and specifically private equity menor capital that we're seeing so.
In private markets versus public markets. Broadly, public markets are marked to market on a daily basis. Everybody knows what the price of Tesla or Google or Facebook is today. Private markets aren't, right, And so I'm curious when you said that they found themselves overweight compared to public equities because the value of the public equities drew down, but then their private equities didn't. So they didn't mark those to market, they didn't draw, they didn't write those down.
So do you think that's why they were so off sides, because anyway, do you think that's why they're soft sides.
Great question, that's exactly right. We invest in early stage venture capital, and in particular early stage versus growth or late stage venture across the board. You can use you know, black suals, option pricing models and things like that, but for the most part, most venture investors, they simply carry the asset on the books at the last priced venture round.
And so what that means is if no new rounds are happening, and they're not happening on a down round in a lower valuation, they're just sitting there and they're carrying it at this higher evaluation, even though the world might have changed. There's no way to really price those unless there's a lot, you know, a high volume of secondaries on a late stage venture deal. And so you're
exactly right. The public we can mark to market with public equities, and all the private stuff kind of sits there because there's unknown it's an unknown as far as what the valuations and what the asset should be carried out.
I've heard some speculation.
I think there's been some talks and public talk of potentially having some of these private markets VCPE, metrocap or private equity maybe remark their books, mark them down, and some speculation of what that might look like in this type of environment. Do you have any kind of speculation or any kind of data of what you think might actually happen if some of these private equity venture capital companies were actually doing some of that and marking those things down.
Well, the question is always a tricky one. It's it's what price do you put on the companies. If there's a markdown, that kind of implies that you've gotten a reasonably sized data set of maybe secondary transactions from early employees that traded, and you can back into what some
of the options are worth. The very big household brand name VC firms tend to have a bit more of a sophisticated approach to valuation, But it's still tricky because what private market investors are willing to pay for some thing is just fundamentally a different question than something that's highly liquid and available to a global capital base. Right now, things are just really slowed in particular, you know, late last year, the second half of last year, in the
first half of this year. Right now, in general, most founders are working to grow revenues and grow into what maybe the previous valuations were in some of their venture rounds, so that they can prove that they're ready for a new investment round whenever the larger investors are ready to do some new venture investing.
Yeah, it's sort of like if there's no activity, if there's no deals being made, then there's no way to
understand what their value is. And the truth is, even with public equities would be the same thing, because public equity, sure they have some of them, a lot of them actually have revenue and they have profits, and so then you can kind of work out like some sort of like a pe ratio, but what's that multiplier, and that multiplier changes based off of the price of the stock, and so we don't know that is until somebody buys it.
And so it's almost sort of like what we see happened in the housing market today, where most people think their housing markets should be crashing, but it's holding on pretty strong even in the face of almost eight percent mortgage rates because there's just no activity. The people that are stuck in those two and three percent orgags, they ain't sell it, and so we're not seeing it and.
Sort of something like that you'd said.
You had said that the M and A activity mergers and acquisitions in that private space had ebbed to a new low. I think you said is that in twenty twenty two.
So Q four and Q one Q four, twenty twenty two Q one. This year it was about a fifteen year ebb in the overall, you know, just transaction counts in mergers and acquisitions, and since most you know, certainly in venture sometimes companies get public, either via IPO or direct listing, but most of the time they're acquired at some point along through their growth trajectory. And these large institutional investors that might put a few billion dollars into
a fund of funds that then allocates to managers. Since the M and A has slowed, the managers don't get the liquidity in their funds that doesn't roll up to the funds of funds and subsequently to the pension funds, et cetera. Their liquidity has slowed down a lot.
That makes sense seeing as twenty twenty two was the worst year for financial markets, both stocks and bonds in fifty years, So of course you start to see that slow down. Now if you're just tuning in you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about the decentralized revolution. I'm sitting down with Christopher callicut the co founder managing director of Trammel Venture Partners.
I'm gonna take a very quick break. We'd be right back. Don't go away, all right, Welcome back.
If youre just tune in, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Christopher Callicutt. He is the co founder managing director of Trammel Venture Partners, which is a venture capital fund specifically in the bitcoin space.
And we were.
Talking about, Christopher before the break about sort of like this this glow macro picture that's sort of in the
driver's scene, and how has impacted private markets. I'm just curious, you know, from your standpoint as a you know, venture capital investor, in dealing with other investors who are trying to allocate capital in this space, how do you think about the overall macro picture, Because you know, when I think about the macro picture, what's the FED going to do with rates over the next six months?
Will there be a crash this year?
Things like that That sort of goes against what I think about in private equity or specifically venture capital, because venture capital, my money is locked up for seven years, ten years. So do I really care about the macro picture over the next six or twelve months when my money is locked up for eight to ten years.
How do you think about those two things.
It's a great question, and it's an interesting one. You know, in principle, the idea being that if you have this long term view, this long term commitment to venture capital as an asset class, these you know, fluctuations in you know, the one, two, three year time frame have less impact in practice, though, you know, I hear a lot of chatter with other managers that have a broader we'll say,
venture capital mandate than we do. They're very much down focused on the bitcoin stack exclusively, and you know, they they have a lot of trepidation, even for large institutions that feel like, okay, just take a pause. You know,
they feel become more comfortable with the pause. So even though you should have that kind of disinterested Hey, the conventional wisdom buy when there's blood in the streets, a time like this year is necessarily a great time to at least go out and see where how people are feeling about pricing and maybe actually get to have a little bit more ownership at the fun level for some
of these investments. I do know that there are managers out there that have said that their LPs have just felt a little overwhelmed by trying to process everything full stop. So in practice sometimes it doesn't meet the academically agreed on standard as far as like this long term view for us, and I think one of the ways that you Mark and TVP are very strongly aligned is we see some fundamental flaws with the structure of the system, and we know that in the end things are going
to be fundamentally different. We think that sound money is one of the key components, and we think that market view wise, bitcoin has already won the battle for the Internet in the Internet age the base monetary layer, and so we're preparing for that kind of long term view.
And one of the ways that we were actually sort of managing against what we would see is a certain type of risk where some of our investors might have trepidation, they might be feeling the pain of public markets, and what they might be seeing at this micro level is by kind of really dialing in with family offices and individual investors that we might have very different opinions on a wide variety of subjects, but around this one unifying
idea of bitcoin being the Internet age's monetary standard, we're aligned on that, and so investing in these companies that help realize this transformation to a new sound monetary order, we wanted to grow purposefully, and so we've we've attracted like a great group of investors around us that are at least aligned on that sort of principle. That's not to say that we're not subject to some of the stresses of looking at the macro micro picture though.
So then I mean, it's something that you're certainly paying attention to, but it's not really something that's driving your decisions.
Would you say, definitely not, you know, I think as far on the on the decision driving question, you know, I think this year has been an interesting year for you know, bear market and bear market year fallout reasons, I would say, but in a broader sense, it's important for us to just we can't be toned after what's happening in public markets and UH and the broader alternative asset landscape, because you know, as we grow as a firm, net new investors for us will come from the institutional base.
So we have to be you know, keenly aware for the the challenges they're facing and what their their market impacts are, what impacts are happening to them and their portfolio overall.
Yeah.
Uh, some of the problems have have really come because of socio economic paradigms I think that we live in today, such as just short term thinking, and so you have this bigger institutional involvement today, but institutions are constantly being judged by their investors on a marke to market basis, and so you know, I know, other fund managers and other and other markets, public markets, and in order to make the big returns, they need time, but their investors
are judging them on a month basis, and they're like, how can I make these big moves to get these big returns when you're constantly comparing my returns on a monthly basis, And so it starts to cause these types of problems. And I think about you know, Warren Buffett his partner Charlie Munger says, the big money's not made in the buying and the selling, It's made in the waiting. So one waiting for the right opportunity, but also two waiting for that opportunity to actually take time to develop.
Warren Buffett has this thing he called twenty punches or whatever. If any new investor would come in knowing they had twenty moves twenty punches their whole career that outperform, and that's because they're not overtrading. And Warren Buffett said, he said, I don't buy stocks. I buy companies. They just happen to be publicly traded. And what I think he means by that, or what I take from that, is he
buys a company, so I'm gonna buy. He likes a capital efficient business is like a Hershey or Coca Cola. Do you think people still buy soda in the future?
Yes or no?
Great, well, then coke should be a good long term investment. You know, Tesla. Do you think people will buy more ev vehicles in the future or less? Great than I should buy Tesla and set up for the long term. Or do I think for bitcoin? Do I think governments will print more money in the future or less? Will governments take more of our freedoms or give us more freedoms back in the future?
Right? And so?
But that's that long term view, right, And I think if people would approach it like that, everything would change, would go back to the warm buffett you know, twenty punch kind of kind of mandate. How do you think about investors and allocating towards venture capital from best practices or from what you've seen it? Should it only be done by people that are super rich? Should it only be done with a tiny minuscule piece of portfolio if you love gambling?
Or how do you think about that for most people?
For most people, the average person, I would say venture capitals not necessarily a fit for them.
Well, when you say most people, I would imagine you probably break that down by portfolio size. So if you have a five figure portfolio, or even a six figure portfolio, maybe not, but once you get over seven maybe something you consider Or how do you say for most people? Is that based off portfolio size or just for mentality?
Yeah, I mean from a regulatory perspective, you know, it's it's one of these clothes to average folks kind of things. So you got you've got to be at least a credited not a qualified purchaser to participate. That's a whole, uh wormhole. We can discuss uh at some point on on the regulatory questions there and fairness of it, but that is the regime that as it stands, and so for people that they're a potential investor they're considering it,
you have to think about all sorts of questions. Are you is it a sector play, is it like you were describing, is it you know, electric vehicles for example, or or space exploration, or you you have a viewle on a thesis of bitcoin or or some you know, life sciences and explosion in life sciences. So then you've got to go from from that that thesis and then try to identify and get access to the best managers available.
And so I'm gonna I'm gonna pause you on that the best managers available. We're gonna come back to that. If you're just tune in you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Christopher Callicutt. He is the co founder and managing director of Trammel Venture Partners, which is a bitcoin venture capital fund focused on that specifically.
We've got to take a very quick break, but we're going to come back and finish that thought and we're going to dive down into some specifics, so don't go away.
We'll be right back.
All right, Welcome back. If you're just tune in you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down.
With Christopher Callicutt.
He is the co founder and of Trammel Venture Partners, managing director of Trambo Venture Partners, a bitcoin venture capital fund. And before the break we had to kind of cut you off, but you were talking about, you know, finding your thesis and then trying to find the best allocators in that thesis.
I think is kind of what you were saying.
Yeah, that's right. You know, So if you're your your thesis first and then finding the best managers you can get access to in a fund, you know, I think you want them to versification in in that thesis because in venture this, you know, individually these investments are very very high risk. Typically, you know, a couple of investments within a portfolio return the entire fund multiple times over
in successful venture capital funds. And so you've got to think in terms of a whole holistic picture of your overall portfolio and what that should comprise, if it should comprise any of it within it, So you know it's it's a it's a question for for sizing and a whole lot of thought.
Actually, yeah, you know, one thing that I've been starting to kind of change some of my narrative around is been you know, I've talked a lot about parallel markets and the need for these things and really like maybe putting your money where your mouth is or building the world that you want. And you look at like the founding fathers of the United States, and you know, unfortunately for the for those that you know signed the Declaration of Independence, for example, most of them ended up dead.
It wasn't good for the revolutionaries, but they sacrifice their life for future generations. And today the world is also going in a scary place and we need some revolutionaries to take some action. And fortunately for us, we don't have to go risk our lives like they did. But maybe we need to make some sacrifices with our time or our capital, and maybe we should use our time or our capital to help build this new world, build
this ecosystem they want. So unlike the Founding Fathers, we don't have to go risk our lives, but maybe we do need to risk some of our time or risk some of our money. And so maybe that's just a different way to kind of start to think about it. Because part as part of this talk that I'm gonna be giving next week here, it'll be on my main YouTube channel, So shout out. If you're not following me on YouTube, just search Mark Moss on there. I'll break
this down. But how bitcoin isn't just a new technology, it's a technological revolution, and there's a big difference between those two. A technological revolution is a cluster of new technologies that basically change all of society as we know it. And what happens is as that is, it's not just new technology. It creates thousands or maybe even millions of
investment opportunities in that ecosystem. So, for example, oil was a new technology that also came out at the same time as the automobile, and those two together were technologies on their own, but they created roads we need now because we have oil and cars, we need roads to drive them on.
Well.
To get roads, I might need a design a caterpillar tractor to plow the road, and I might need to come up with a new type of asphalt and like.
So there's all these downstream effects, and in bitcoin we're already starting to see that, right, So, like in bitcoin mining, for example, they're pioneering all new types of energy plays and all new types of switches and managers, and they're building their own equipment and racks and cooling technologies, and like there's thousands of little downstream rabbit holes that go
into that you can play into. And so I guess as someone who wants to buy bitcoin and whole bitcoin, I also want to think about developing that ecosystem and these are some play So as a venture capital fund, are these things that you kind of think about, like how what are these kind of offshoots of technology that we think could really take off, and then we want to allocate and help those build.
I think that's exactly right. I like the energy the energy example, by the emergence of you know, reasonably priced automobiles and the oil industry. Bigcoin very similarly is just you know, intrinsically related to energy, and so managing some of the frictions that are inherent to the energy market, for example, is actually investable landscape for what we do
in the bitcoin native ecosystem. For example, one of our companies is playing against the thesis we've had for a very long time that pricing oil or any other kind of energy in dollars is a little bit of a strange long term bedfellow in the Internet age, where we're used to being able to receive something instantaneously. In fact, energy itself, electricity specifically, it's very weird in one unique
way we produce it and consume it simultaneously. Well, wouldn't it be nice if we had a way to do something that's inherent to energy market, which is to do business with another company, As if I own a large energy producing asset and someone wants to buy energy from me, I have to know a lot about their business and their ability to pay, because there's you know, at least thirty, maybe sixty or niney day settlement time, and in the meantime they could have run up a bill of millions
of dollars. So energy money bitcoin in the middle of that, and being able to stream small fractions of a bitcoin nearly real time, so that there's final settlement with this money that has inherent property values built in when it's yours, it's not an ioe you to money, or it's not ach where there's a clawback of ninety day, right you
have it you have possession of that money. And so this one company called Sonoda is working against this thesis that over the long term energy it makes sense, it's intuitive almost that it should be priced in a money that can be fully final and settled in real time as someone consumes that product that's produced at the same time it's consumed, which is an interesting kind of place. So I think, I think I love the energy analogy there actually, and.
When you think about that, so basically what I what I'm hearing when I when you when I'm listening to that is that obviously technology has changed, and what's happened is it's changed our transaction times. So pre Internet or you know, we go back to the early gold days, I would have to travel by long distance on a horse or whatever to you to transact. I would give you the gold, you'd give me the supplies, and there would be like this handoff.
Right.
Well, what happened is with the Internet specifically, transaction times got instantaneous. I can go right onto Amazon as I'm talking to you, and I could just buy something and have it delivered to my office by the end of the day. But the settlement time hasn't kept up, so it's going to take Amazon five days to get that money, and then to the point you made, I could claw that back up to ninety days later. So now the transaction time has sped up, but the settlement hasn't come
anywhere close to keeping up. And so now bitcoin gives us a way to sync that back up, instantaneous transaction and instantaneous settlement at the same time. To the example you gave in the energy space, that's a great example, but there's a million use cases for something like that
right in every type of industry. I was talking with Gary Cardon, Grant Cardon's twin brother, and he comes from the merchant card space, and I don't want to mischaracterize exactly what he said, but roughly he helps businesses that do large scale, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of credit card transactions and they lose, you know whatever,
billions of dollars on chargebacks. And I used to sell e commerce way back, and we would sell a product, a physical product I might have a thirty percent margin on. I would deliver to someone's house and they would just charge it back on their credit card and there was no recourse for me. And I was only making a
thirty percent margin, so now way behind on that. So anyway, these companies are losing billions of dollars on chargebacks and bitcoin can fix that instantaneous settlement and to your point, final settlement. So yeah, some really interesting things.
Extremely low cost. It is important to you know, it's fractions of a scent to move real monetary value. And what we're talking about here, actually, if I might just to add one step further, is what we're describing here. I think was the point you were trying to make or we're about to make that this actually reflects a generalizable problem that we're actually seeing in multiple massive industries, so not only energy, but similarly in total communications. It's
the exact same problem. The generalizable problem is that they're all carrying a big risk book, which is an impediment to doing new business, generating new revenues, and also to innovation because it's very very risky for some scrappy telecom startup to for a large player to open up the ability for them to run up very large bills and then you know, be out of business and that sort
of thing. So this actually one of the big long term or midterm or long term unlocks is it opens up all kinds of areas for innovation, you know, kind of like linking this back to your original example. You know, we had to run you know, telephone polls to larger places. The oil industry, we had to have the roads and and suddenly there were all these second and third order effects that we hadn't even know for seen, and so we're seeing that in telecom as well.
Yeah, if you just turned into listening to the Mark Moss Show, I'm sitting down with Christopher callicut. He is the co founder managing director of Trammel Venture Partners, a bitcoin venture capital fund. I got to take a quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk about specifically what types of projects we're starting to see, what he's working on and so much more. Is the last part that I'm excited to dig into. Don't go away,
We'll be right back, all right, Welcome back. If you just tune in, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Christopher callicat. He is the co founder managing director of Trammel Venture Partners, a bitcoin focused venture capital fund.
And you know, I.
Want to we've kind of we started high with the macro and kind of dug down into institutional funds and allocations, and then there's some bigger stuff. Let's let's dive down into some sort of actionable not actionable, a little bit more micro type looks at some stuff, and I kind of want to know, like what type of projects you're seeing, maybe what you know, what's popping up, you know, what's the most interesting, maybe has the biggest potential, and maybe
some active deals that you guys are working on. So I want to talk about that. And I know that you guys also have started putting out some research briefs that have been very good, and I know, let's talk about that for just a second. On the search brief that you put out, and you were kind of talking about maybe the malinvestment or the misallocation of money that went into gambling into the crypto ecosphere ecosperic versus potentially
going into like the bitcoin sector. Do you want to talk about that for a minute.
Sure. And I'll set the stage by saying that there's been this kind of sentiment that a lot of we're focused on bitcoin native if you're crypto manager, people have said, you know, kind of repeated this refrain that I just think is fundamentally false that the innovation is not happening
on bitcoin. Part of that came from the view that in the startup world, the Mark Zuckerberg approach to doing things when it happens to be on the Internet's monetary layer bitcoin, you don't want to take a move fast,
break things approach. And so you know, we've been taken a very methodical, purposeful approach to any kind of changes in bitcoin core, but there have been a couple of key technological innovations that have happened in the growth of bitcoin core that have enabled some new things that are starting to happen really now, and so that's kind of the backdrop for why we wanted to put out this research.
TVP is in a very unique position to really instrument the universe of bitcoin companies and understand what's happening in startup investment activity, and so we put out the first of its kind research brief earlier this year. It's called the Emerging Bitcoin Native Venture Capital Landscape. And one of the interesting things that we wanted to do is challenge assumptions for what we see we know instinctively is happening. We've been observing it, but to get this research to
institutional allocators, to family offices, to individual investors. You know, twenty twenty two, obviously it was a down year across the board in crypto for these assets the twenty however, many thousand of them there are They were down bad. You know, Bitcoin was down cyclically in the in that year as well. But one of the interesting things venture investment and we'll say broader, you know, crypto quote unquote was about flat. However, the bitcoin native ecosystem was actually
up despite a down year. It was up about fifty two point nine percent increase in in bigcoin startup transactions across the board, which really flies in the face of some of the narratives that get built around where the quote unquote smart money's investing. And so that was one of the key reasons or the motus are putting this out.
We want to challenge assumptions. We want for these institutional investors to realize, wait a minute, you mean that there's actually growth and these are very long term sustainable businesses being built on bitcoin. Do we have a bitcoin manager?
Are we are? We are we allocating correctly and you know we would we would make the we assert in this research that there's just a a fundamental misallocation of capital, in particular when if you add up the market capitalization for all these scrypto stuff, include Bitcoin in that bucket, and go further and include every stable coin that exists on every smart contract platform. Bitcoin as the asset is still nevertheless market cap dominant to forty one point one percent.
And the research that we put out said all of the venture dollars, despite that market cap dominance and it being the premiere, the first and we think the last asset only got about one point three to one percent of the institutional venture dollars in twenty twenty two. So we think that that's a very glaring statistic that should make people wake up and go, Okay, I've allocated to
this other stuff. Why don't we have a manager that's focusing on lightening infrastructure or some of these kinds of things that are investments that we look at.
Yeah, And I think the big thing is that, you know, when you understand technology cycles, you see that there's always this speculative phase, and you need this speculative phase. When automobile was introduced very quickly, there's two hund and fifty automobile manufacturers, but we didn't need them. There was no market, there was an infrastructure, and they collapsed. But a lot of that technology they pioneered kind of went into bitcoin.
But the other thing that we see specifically today with these everything bubbles is you have money specifically in the crypto space, and now now it's in the AA. It was the blockchain space, now it's the AI space.
They're looking for.
They're trying to take AI or blockchain and go solve a problem. They're trying to what can I do with this as opposed to solving actual problems. Oh, we can take this blockchain and we could manage let us on the supply chain. Okay, but is that a problem. Do we have a problem managing let.
Us on a supply chain? We don't really have that problem.
So it's cool that you could use a blockchain for that. We don't need that, And the same with AI. Right, And so when I look at new deals, the very first question I asked someone, I don't want to hear anything about it, Just tell me first, what problem are
you solving? And so I think when people say that to your point that there's no advancement on bitcoin all the advancements happening on crypto advance for what solving doing a whole bunch of things that nobody needs, right, And so that's kind of the way that I look at it. Bitcoin is actually solving problems like how do I send money to somebody in Afghanistan when Taliban runs the bank accounts? Or how do I save money in North Korea when
they regularly search my house and don't let me have money? Right, Or when I'm a trucker for protesting in Canada, how do I keep my bank out? Right? It's actually solving problems today, so we don't need all that tech bro advancement, so to speak. That's the way I look at anyway.
Definitely a million solutions in search of problems, right, And you know, right now it's a very interesting time for the bitcoin space because we have taken this methodical approach, A lot of work has been done and things are starting to accelerate in a very I think it's going to be surprising to a lot of these allocators that they thought they were being very smart by getting, you know, exposure to crypto and then they kind of missed the
real revolution on a bitcoin and sound monetary standard. In the Internet age, and they're smart people though, they'll they'll catch up. And you know, to your point, I think, you know, with some of this you know, speculation and this kind of stuff that happens to be fair. Going back, you know, to the earlier days in bitcoin, we said, hey, you know, please, for the love of all things holy, do not break the Internet's monetary layer. Go and experiment,
build some other whatever you want to build. And by the way, if you happen to stumble upon a massive validated market, we'll be paying attention, taking notes, and in due course, the validated markets that are sustainable and have real businesses possibilities, we'll figure out a way to appropriate that and bring it home to bigcoin. And so that inflection point, that's that's really the timing that we are
in the market. It's really exciting because of some of the new technological enablements that are that are going to unlock some big things over the next twelve to twenty four sixty months.
Yeah, and that's exactly what's happening.
So to your point, they've been trying all these different things, too many things. But when there are little things that are working, we've already seen them coming back to Bitcoin and not changing the base layer, but changing on multiple layers on top of it. You know, if you think about innovation and as many tries as you can get
what you want. Unfortunately people don't think this through. But what you really want is you want the base layer to be dumb and slow and basic, because the more basic it is, the more options I have to build on top of it. If I have a flat table, I can build almost anything on top of it. If I have a very intricate table with all different layers, what can I actually build? And so when you build this base layer so intricate, it limits what I can do on top of it.
And so Bitcoin has.
Kept this sort of basic base layer approach so to speak. I hate to call it basic because it's so revolutionary, but it creates all these opportunities to build on top of it. If you're just tuned in you're listening to the Mark Mass Show, of course, we're always talking about the decentralized revolution, and we're talking about the technology of bitcoin, which is the decentralized technology. I've been sitting down with Christopher Callicott. He's the co founder and managing director of
Trammel Venture Partners. It's a bitcoin focused venture capital fund, not crypto bitcoin. If you want to know more, just check them out online. Trammel Venture Partners will link it in the show notes down below. But think about the bitcoin ecosystem as much more than just buying an asset. It's going to change all areas of life, and as I kind of said earlier in the show, to be a revolutionary, don't need to risk your life, but go put some money up, put your money where your mouth is.
But that's what we got for today. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time,