Real Estate Markets, Great Migration, Rich Dad Poor Dad Advisor | Ken McElroy

and anyway, welcome to the channels. Pleasure to sit down with you today. Thank you, Thank you, Mark. It's been great. I'm enjoying everything and joining this time and really glad to be on your channel. Awesome, awesome. Well um yeah, man, you're you're You're so accomplished and I'd love just sitting

down and just learning whatever I can from you. And so today is gonna be a big treat for everybody because I know they love my real estate content, but they're really gonna like yours, and so I'm happy to do that. But maybe just kind of fill us in real quick on maybe which has kind of been working on or what you're doing right now? Sure? Sure, Well, so you know, like a lot of us. I started investing years ago, and my first investment was using my own cash. You know, I bought a two bit in

two Bath that cash flowed. So I've been a cash blow guy in my whole life. And um and then uh, you know, started doing a lot of the small single families and and do plexus and stuff. And then for about the last fifteen plus years, I've been doing multifamily exclusively. We own about ten thousand apartments were we build them, we manage them, we're the general contractor. We're in Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and very active, you know, trying to buy multi

family and build multi family. We have about um plus see five projects, so we have about FIFTUD units in the works on the construction side, and you know, we're really busy, and we're you know, obviously part of why I do what I do and you do what you do is that we're trying to figure out what to

do next. You know, like, you know, how do you understand what's happening with all this crazy stuff with the evictions and the more the moratoriums on the loans and and and then the commercial side is just you know,

nobody really is talking a lot about that. But that's a super scary area as well when it comes to office and malls and retail and so, um, you know, there's a lot happening right now and and um so I just really appreciate the content you're putting out and um you know, we're just trying to stay ahead of everything with you know, not only my money, but my investors money. You know. Hey, just a real quick interruption to let you know that this video is brought to

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for people. So for everybody listening, just real quick, UM, I got a lot of stuff that we're gonna dig drough. So we're gonna talk about the different types of real estate, whether you want to own a home, invest in real estate, or different types of real estate to invest in. We're gonna talk about different ways you can do that, whether

you own it directly or maybe through other groups. UM. We're gonna talk about what we expect to happen this year, UM, Ken and I might be seeing things a little differently, so we're gonna talk about that, um. And then we're gonna talk about, um some big news pieces that are driving real estate this week, and then where we think that's going. So lots of cover here, but can So you've you kind of worked your way up, as you said,

with your own money. UM, and now you're doing doing the bigger deals, and you mentioned that you're across several states, So I would say it sounds like, you know, you're kind of watching and studying the market from a big level, right, trying to find where the best opportunities are. Y. Um, that I guess that's right. So um, I guess the first thing that I think that we would should probably discuss, and that most people don't seem to grasp, is they say,

is the real estate market going to crash? And I would typically say that there is no such thing as the market. Right, There's thousands of markets and they all move independently. Would you agree with that? And if so, maybe I would absolutely Mark. Yeah. I mean people, you know, the the journalists separate like general, I mean, every everything

aggregates up, you know to one thing. You know, but you know, I just if you go back historically, you just take a look at what happened to Detroit as an example, Detroit is the grating apple of a real estate market that crash, you know, uh years ago. And you know, while the a lot of the other markets have boomed in Boston, you know, for various reasons, and uh, you know, the real estate is very local driven right, yeah, and so by area, but also by type, whether that's

a house or a duplex, a multi family, a commercial space, etcetera. So, um, yeah, I think that's the first thing. Is I just like to talk about that now. Um. We both recently have done videos kind of talking about the forecast for this year, and of course, uh, neither of us have a crystal ball. If we did, it would sure make things easier, but of course we don't. Um. In your video, you talked about how inventory has been super tight, but that you

expect inventory to start coming back online this year. Maybe walk us through kind of yeah, So yeah, basically as we all know, I mean, inventory is a historical lows, forty year lows, and and I think that you know, last I looked, you know, there's like a million houses available. I read somewhere there's like, you know, five realtors for

every house or something crazy, you know. So you know, and what's normal as as we all know, if you just use historical numbers as six months supply, and you know, we're basically under three, so somewhere between two and three depending on the market, very undersupplied, and then all the other people or having to you know, where near the where they were before, so they can move an hour,

two hours, three hours away. And so we have all these migration patterns which I think probably will probably touch on. So all that stuff is happening at the same time.

And then m you have cookering down and they have equity in their home and they're stick there's their standput and um and and these are people that would have normally I think, listed their homes, you know, I mean, there's a lot of things that that aren't happening normally and and so UM, I do believe that once the vaccine gets rolled out and things, you know, come back to whatever, you know, whatever the new normal is, then UM, I think people are gonna um you know, harvest some

of the cash from their homes. With these low interest rates, they're gonna you know, they're gonna list. And then I also think that we're gonna have the people. Last I looked, we had somewhere in between three and four million people that were delinquent um. And then we have this massive rental eviction issue that um, you know, will create a lot of disruption as well. So I think all of those things are going to add more supply. Um, you know, how much you know, who knows and by what market.

To your point earlier, you know, there are going to be some markets like California that will be in trouble, but there will be other markets that have done really, really wild that won't be. So you know, it's gonna to be state by state, city by city, county by county. But yes, there's gonna be I believe a lot of a lot of inventory that's gonna hit the markets. Uh,

I predicted in the in the fourth quarter. Yeah. To to add on to your point, I would say that we did see when the pandemic first broke out last year in March um that we saw him I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we saw more inventory pulled off the market than like any time in history. Yes, that's exactly my point. Yeah, yeah, and I don't believe. I mean, you can't blame those people. They're like, Okay, we may or may to have work.

You know, our employers may or may not survive. We have we've you know, if you look at equity in people's homes, they've they've done pretty well. And that's actually that's actually the best thing that's happened is people have you know, call it this this bank account. They don't get to get it unless they sell it or refin dance.

But you know it's sitting there. And that actually is way better than what happened in two thousand and eight when I went through, you know, a very different correct should So I think that's a good thing and and that actually will I believe will really help. But people, you imagine if you've got a bunch of equity in your house, you know, and you don't know where you're gonna work. As an example, I don't know that you're

going to lift your house. Uh you know, because now you're you're gonna harvest it, you're gonna pay capital game tax, and you know you have to figure out where to going next. Right, Yeah, everything in life comes down to certainty. So the more certain you are with your life, the longer out you can plan, and the less uncertain you are than the less you can plan. So extreme examples of that would be if I was in a country like Syria that's being bombed right now and I'm literally

fleeing for my life with my family. The last thing I'm trying to do is like worry about saving money from my future, Like my future is so uncertain, that's the last thing I'm worried about. And so, Um, to your point, there was a lot of uncertainty that was going on for any number of reasons. I'm scared to go out of my house. I don't want other people to come in my house. I don't know what the future and all these things, and so people decided to

do that. But I guess to add on to your point, Um, we know that people wanted to sell their house before the pandemic and it came off the market and so there so it's reasonable to expect that once this gets cleared, that inventory will go back onto the market. Now, one theme that for everyone listening, one thing that you're gonna hear over and over and over is that it's all about supply and demand, and so everything that we're talking

about is affecting supply and demand at some point. Um. But um, one thing that I hear when I talk about real estate, and you can let me know if you hear the same thing, and I'm sure you do. But everybody is expecting this this massive amount of unemployment and specifically the record amount of forbearances and rent moratoriums. They are all expecting that to just come onto the market and just crash it. And I think you're kind

of expecting maybe the same thing. So it's interesting. It's going to depend on There's a lot of factors that have to do with that. Obviously. I think most people, if you look at the if somebody's in their home, they're gonna hold on and they're gonna do whatever they have to do. And so they're all gonna trickle out

based on what happens. And there's a lot of people that you know, believe that some of the forbearance is just gonna be thrown onto the end of the loan um and uh, but you know, that's a very small percentage, as you know, you know, and and so there's a lot of mortgages out there that are non government mortgages, and and so while there's a you know, the forbearance is certainly in place right now, Um, you know, there's a lot of private lending, a lot of private money

out there, you know, kind of sitting back on the sidelines and trying to figure out what to do next. So, um, so I don't know if it's all going to come, but I do think. You know, obviously Biden kicked everything down the road till till June, you know, and so when I originally did that video, as you know, that was prior to him even kicking it down the road

to June. So, uh, you know, I was interesting. As you know, I was with George Gammon last weekend up in Park City, and you know, we got as a big discussion as as you know we all do when we get together, trying to tap into everybody's resources, and George said, you know, personal incomes were way up, you know, during all of this, during this whole pandemic, personal incomes are way up, and you gotta wonder why, Like you know, like with all this unemployment, and you know, all these

businesses that are going out and and and people are going to part time and all that kind of stuff. You know, that's all been propped up by the government. And uh, there's no doubt around that. And so when when the when the new checks came out and uh, you know, all those things happen. You know that, believe it or not. As a landlord, that actually was good because those people take that money they pay their rent.

Uh you know, but at some point you gotta wonder, you know, how long is the government going to be issuing these checks? And that's what I was trying to get at. So will it all hit in the fourth quarter? Probably not, but it's if they don't kick down the road again, I would expect that you these things are

going to have to work themselves out well. Um, just like George, I spent a lot of time studying with the Fed, FED is doing, the Central Banks and the Federal Reserve, and so, UM, it just seems to me, I mean, they've they've passed their nine billion, another one point nine trillion is about to come through. I think there's another potentially three trillion there negotiating but coming out with next I just don't think that they've come this

far to let it fall apart at this point. In addition to that, um, if the stock market and the real estate markets were to crash hard, debt to GDP levels would skyrocket to a level that would probably wreck the country. And so they're they're kind of forced in a way. I just don't think they would let it go.

But we don't know. But one thing I would also say, though, is it and you can see what you've I know, You've looked at the data more than I have on this, but it seems like the people that are affected, the people that have lost their job, the people that are still unemployed, are mostly service level jobs, service sector jobs, and so maybe a lot of those people one don't own homes, and two if they do own homes, there are only in certain price points and markets. Um, what

do you think about that? Hey, just another quick interruption to let you know that this video it's brought to you add free by Block five. Now they allow you to hold onto your bitcoin and your other cryptos for all the potential upside, and at the same time, you can earn high yielding interest on it, so it basically cash flows. Now with Block five you can earn up to eight point six percent interest. You can also borrow

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for all the details. Of how to claim your two and fifty dollars today, you start to look at these, um you know, that's obviously on the higher end side, you know, companies like JP Morgan, which I know we were talking about before, or Goodman Sacks, and you start to look at these big, big companies that are based in you know, it's not just all about New York with Chicago, and I have friends that are that have spaces in those in those in those markets, and they're

paying rent and none of their employees are going to the office and and so you know, that's you know, that's all the stuff that no one has really talked about yet. And so you're right, it's definitely at the lower end for sure. And those are the ones that show up first. But then there's a whole troncha people I think that are are displaced right now, that are trying to find their way. And I got seventy resumes from my CEO position and none of them from a

local area. Wow. Okay, so let's let's chase that down a little bit. So there's great migration, right, Everybody wants to get the heck out of Dodge, right, They're leaving New York and they want to migrate to these areas. And so, um, we were talking earlier about this headline I saw with JP Morgan and putting up like eight hundred thousand square feet of office space. We've seen most of Wall Street, Goldman Sacks, even the New York Stock

Exchange are announcing their all moving down to Florida. People trying to go to Arizona where you're at. Talk about this great migration a little bit. It's true, you know, I think you probably saw the news. It's a it's a bit dadd now, but Pinterest wrote a ninety million dollar check to get out of their lease in San Francisco. Uh, you know, and and so you start to see, you know, I'm in the commercial space primarily, so I own office buildings,

we have self storage, I do land development. And obviously what I've primarily known for what I do is multi family. And that's also a different issue. I have friends that are all multi family in Chicago and New York and and in in San Francisco and Attle and and they're in troubble obviously for multiple reasons. And so I think that, uh, and the hotel business, you know, those little micro hotels are just getting crushed right now because you can't survive

on ten, which you're where they are. And so all of that's happening, and I think the migration patterns are I think it's fascinating personally. I think the fact that you know, you can you can go to be a worker, let's say, for Twitter and and live in Texas now, right, So I think that's awesome. And the fact that but it is going to make a massive real estate impact for obviously San Francisco, as you know, just to pick on them, but things are happening like that all over

Mark even my own company. You know, we're taking a look at this hybrid model. You know, we have a lot of space. And I have every conversation I have with my friends, they're like, okay, well all my people have been home for a year almost so how much space do I really need? And so at the end of their leases, they're going, well, you know, I had twenty thousand, now I'm out five, you know, and and uh, it's really really interesting. I think, what what you're going

to start to see. I was actually playing golf with the one of the top guys that Freddie Mack and he you know, he's in Arizona, of all things, and him and his wife ought a place out here. He flies back. I said, what are you gonna do with that massive campus? And he said, well, I think what we're gonna do is we're gonna put a hotel. We're gonna put some hotels in there and make it all more like a conference center, you know, just for Freddie mckinploy.

So you can fly in, you know, uh, stay there, go, you know, meet when you need to meet, and then fly back to where you are. And so I think you're gonna see this repurposing of real estate. You know, we're certainly seeing with the regional malls already, which we're already in trouble pre you know, Preak COVID, and so it's it's an exciting time for real estate investing. In

my opinion. Well, anytime there's change, it creates opportunity. And so as an investor, no matter what market you're in, you're looking for that change because that's where the opportunity is going to be if you get it right and you can get there before it. I think it was Buffet, you know whoever said that the markets are discounting mechanisms, right, So you're trying to get a discount on what the future is gonna hold. But I would say, just to add to that, UM, I was already tracking this great

migration from what the baby boomers. They're all retiring and they all want to sell their McMansions, and they all want to move somewhere where it's sunny and they can play golf in tennis during a sixty five days a year. We already had that going on, and now you're adding on the COVID work from home kind of thing on top of that, and so it's a powerful, powerful trend.

So UM, I guess let's wrap it up with that and just say, UM that anybody looking at real estate needs to understand it's local and they need to understand these supply and demand tricks. UM. Now, if we want to UM kind of take it a little bit for farther. So people who are interested in this topic, let's talk about different ways that they would buy real estate. So first off, they would have like their home. So if you're if you want to buy a home, so a lot of people are going, should I buy a home

this year or not? Rates are cheap? Should I lock it in? Um? I don't believe that you should look at as an investment. You need to look at as a home. So what what do those people need to be looking at or thinking about in that regards And and do you kind of agree with kind of the the it's an it's an asset not a liable or it's a liability not an asset type of thing. Yeah, well a great question, by the way, because I think that's what's kind of everyone's facing right now. And I

think there's a big affordability issue happening right now. You look at personal savings are way up, and which is good. That's finally we you know, people are saving money, which they need to do for these kinds of you have cash reserve. Um, but I agree with you. I think that people should live where they want to live, and um, you know, they should live within their means, and they should have enough cash reserves and they should be where they want to be. And I think this is the

exact time to be able to figure that out. And that's why Idaho and Montana are blowing up. And that's why I'm Wyoming. And you know these little places that you know where fly our states basically you know, are are really on fire, you know, these little, small little suburbs. You know, I I live in the Northwest in the summer because Arizona is just so crazy, and um, you know, it's it's not what's happening in in a lot of

these little markets. These are markets that I go to, I I keep track of, uh, and and it's happening all over Oregon, all over Washington and these small little things. So that's what's happening. And I agree with you people. I always say your house, even for me, my house is my house. It's not on the table from an investment standpoint. With that being said, you don't on a you know, people are always trying to time things. I think with inflation, uh and the low cost of the

borrowing that, um, you're gonna be just fine. You know. Like if you buy something that's a half a million box or two grand or whatever, no matter where it is, and you throw some debt on their two and a half percent fix, I think you're gonna be just fine. Based on all the money printing that we've got going on, you know, you're gonna hit You're gonna be hedged on the six of that seventy percent. Let's say, or eating

um by using somebody else's money anyway. So really you're only you're only messing around with that down payment piece, and inflation is gonna gonna push everything up personally. You know, I believe we're already seeing it. You know, I'm building, I'm building properties on one property units. I'm a million dollars high on my on my lumber. You know, it's just lum and you know, so you're already seeing these uh you know components. Um. I read from the National Mortgage,

National Housing. I'm sorry, the National home Builders. The average home is now fourteen thousands higher as a result of the components from where it was pre COVID. So that's a lot. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I would say, let's let's we'll table that and just say, if you're thinking about owning the home, to live in it, and it's your home, as you made the perfect case. And I hadn't really thought about that. All these people that wished they could live in Wyoming or wish they could live

in id Hope, but there's no jobs there. Now they can right now they can live in idho and still working in Silicon Valley, right and so they or work in New York City from from some Idah. So that's a good that's a good point. And so if you can live where you want to live in locking historic rates and you want to live there forever, then who cares. Um An example for myself is um as you know,

I just moved out of the country. I just moved from California to um to Puerto Rico, and we're getting ready to move out of the country, and all of a sudden, in my area on the beach, a property came up for sale. The last thing from my mind is buying a house at this point, and I'm just like, I want that house. I want that I want the lot. I want that lot that that house is on. And my wife's like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm like, this will probably the worst time to buy. I'll probably

be an idiot. The market will probably crash, but I don't care. I don't care if the market drop. If I can lock in the rate and get that property,

I want it. And so I didn't end up getting it, by the way, But my point being, if it's a place that you want and you've can lock it in and you don't care if the price goes down then, Um, I would I would probably say by and on top of that, um and my real recent real estate video, I made the case that a house I owned in two thousand seven, I had a one point five million dollar loan. It was about ten thousand dollars a month.

Today that same ten thousand dollars I mean two and a half million, right, so being able to lock it in these rates, especially this week we've seen rates going back up. What do you think the rates going back up will do to the homes? You think it how high? I guess do you think it needs to go up before maybe that starts to make an impact? Right? Well, it's interesting. I just was listening to something about this.

I guess how wun't spoke to, you know, somebody you know, Wall Street Journal, convention and and and raids jumped up. Uh you know, uh they're still incredibly Lowmark. You know, it's funny like as I, you know, as as Ross and I were buying all that real estate. We you know, we're buying it, you know, four and a half, five and half even six. We were happy then. You know, now it's lit even more so. Our cash, our reefies, you know, are better we're actually we don't want to

get more out. So um, yes they're up, but they're still so low. Uh, you know, and I think that you're going to start to see them bumping up. But what does happen To answer your question, Obviously, whenever anything goes up like that, that's the cost of money. Then you know, things slowed down even just a little bit. So maybe that person that was right on the edge to be able to buy something, you know, now can't

because that rates higher. It could be a car, could be a house, you know, and and so it'll be interesting to see, you know, where rates go. I can't imagine during all of this that they're going to increase rates, you know though, as we still have you know a lot of people, um that are unemployed, and we still have a lot of disruption happening, and and and for them to raise rates, um, you know, at least over

the short term would be a really really bad idea. Well, I don't think the FED will They said they're not even thinking about thinking about raising rates. So I mean it could be five years, they've said at least five years. I think rates will go down, but the mortgage rates don't track the FED fund rate exactly. So we'll see what happens with that. But let's jump let's jump gears a little bit, and let's leave residents. We kind of covered for the people that want to buy a house

to live in it. But now what about real estate investing? Now I've invested. I was investing in real estate from I did really good for a decade through about two thousand five two six. Obviously two tho was horrible. But what I learned is that, uh, there's no such thing as good and bad timing, just good and bad strategies.

And I don't know if you agree with that, but right now there's I think certain real estate strategy investing strategies that would still work today and probably some that don't. Do you agree with that, and if so, which strategies do you think are probably the best for people to kind of think about based on our migration patterns. And I know you watch I watch that's gonna create bubbles

and depressions. You know, people are gonna be moving out of areas and they're moving into other areas, and that's you know, so you've got to really be cognizant of where people are heading. And if you're if you can be there and catch that, then you're gonna do very very well, even during this pandemic. Okay, Um, it seems to me like I I probably did a hundred hundred and fifty fix and flips, but I don't know if now is the best market to be doing those today.

I would agree with you, I would agree. I mean, you know, it's the problem with that is that it's a you've got the timing issue right, and and so you know, it depends on how long I suppose, and and then also you have the tax piece now, which is up for grabs, I guess, you know, and so uh,

you know, there's it takes. You want to make sure that when whatever you're buying, it's gonna be worth a lot more than you know, what you're paid, and and and and because of where things are with inventory, i'd be careful with that, you know, especially um, with what we kind of started talking about earlier on inventory. So then investing for income is the strategy that I like? Is that the strategy that you like a d percent? And that's actually been my strategy the whole time. I

like you and I don't. We've talked about this. I look back sometime times that the properties that I owned, and I'm like, man, I wish I still owed that, you know, I mean, I do that all the time, and and and and you know, I've had a great career. It's been wonderful. But the stuff I've kept has, you know, and cash flowed over the time has been by far the best strategy. So, UM, if I want to invest for cash flow, I want to I want to invest in a place that I believe the cash flow has

a good long term demand. Like, I don't want to invest in a in a in a city that's dying and nobody's gonna be there and in a few years, right, I want to move somewhere that has long term demand. So that's the migration thing you talked about for me. I kind of like the entry level because people are always coming up and people are always coming down. There's always demand for that entry level. Um. But then what I've been kind of wrestling with lately, and I'd like

your opinion on this, I've always liked to own everything. Um. I just sold an apartment building in Indianapolis two months ago, and it just became too much work, even with my property managers in place, and I just couldn't even manage my property manager, and I just don't want to deal with it. And so I've been thinking about shifting that into more like syndicated deals instead of me owning and managing everything, going into bigger deals where I can do

you know, big apartment complexes, things like that. What do you think? What do you think about those two options for the average kind of person. Well, first of all, I completely agree with your entry level piece. You work rash and I'm known as workforce housing guys. So you know, we we build what we call a minus, you know, and that's what we build. And we try to buy stuff that we can be right underneath, you know, the really high and glitzy stuff. We want to be two three,

four hundred dollars a month less on a rental side. Um. And so I completely agree with your strategy there um. And I think that you know, it's the management piece is you know, it's a real piece. It's a big deal. I was fortunate markets you know that I came up

in the property management world operationally. I started managing properties when I grew up in Seattle, and I was doing that in college, and and and and so for the first ten years of my career I did that and so, uh so it's really a much much easier for me to be able to drop in and manage a manager, which in some cases, like when we're buying stuff in Oklahoma, we actually used a third party manager. Um and in in Texas we actually bought a management company and and

rebranded it. It's the key to everything. But if you don't have the uh you know, the time and the and the experience around it, it can be daunting because you know, these little decisions that are being made. Luckily, because of my experience, I can challenge them and and you know, I can, I can drop into any property anywhere and have a one on one with the manager and and you know, and because I've been there before, I've done it. I have a trying tremendous amount of experience.

So we have a management company, but it's finding a good property manager man is the hardest thing ever. It's the most questioned thing that we get. I get probably every week somebody asking me to manage their stuff, and um, you know, but we only do our own. And but for those people that don't want that, and we have thousands of investors that to your point that they just they they put the money into this into the syndication.

The one thing you've got to be careful of is sometimes the syndicators don't have that management experience and so they do it themselves too. So you can give us indicator money and the deal might be great, Uh, you know, my pencil out and all that kind of stuff, but then they're not pulling the cash out on the management side. All right, Ken, Well, that's a lot of good information that you've given us. UM, let's go ahead and try

to summarize this and kind of wrap this up. So UM, as a homeowner, they probably want to go ahead and buy if they want to live their luck in those new rates. If want to invest, UM, they want to invest into areas that are growing, and they want to invest for cash flow. Give us some ideas of where people would get this information, what they should be looking,

and how they might want to kind of approach that. Sure, well, I think that you know, when you're looking to obviously invest in whatever it is that you're investing, and you want to go to where the people are going population growth, employment growth and all of those things. And I think that's probably the number one thing that people miss is that you know, you want to go as Wayne Gretzky says, you know when he was why are you such a great hockey player? Well, I always skated to where I

thought the puck was going to be. And I think that people missed that, you know, they they kind of get on this herd mentality and and you know, all so and solce buying. You kind of have to look at the bigger picture, so you know, and and then of course, um, you know, I I tracked that stuff through the you know, there's a ton of stuff on

migration on line. There's a ton of stuff on the on the BLS website and the Census websites, the Black Night Helps you know, on the mortgage for foreclosures, and the National Multi Housing Council on the on the evictions and all that kind of stuff. All of this has to do with what's gonna happen, you know, And and you know, we we do have a Ken McRoy dot com.

We have uh I uh, we have a market Disruptor piece that you know, your your your folks can download if they like you just go to Kim macroy dot com slash market Disruptor and you can kind of take a look at some of the things that you know that we what we take a look at that hopefully will help them make the really good decisions. Yeah, awesome, awesome. Well, it's a big subject and and like like like anything, you should need to educate yourself before you make these

big decisions. And so hopefully this conversation has definitely helped you out. Now. I know you talked about Kim McRoy dot com and that market disruptor piece that's eight. Obviously your YouTube channel has a ton of great information as well. Anything else that you want to kind of throw out where people could follow you, Yeah, yeah, just uh well mc Companies is our company, if you want to take a look at what we're doing, you know, on an investment side. The but most of the education stuff is

that we're on kin mac dot com. And I just want to say, this is the greatest time, guys, even though things are really high and you know, and there's unemployment. The rates are low though, and it's the greatest time to be able to there's gonna be a lot of money changing hands in the next four or five years. And and the key to this whole thing, in my opinion, the people that will emerge are the people that are

going to be studying and staying ahead of this. I'm telling you, so congratulations on on on watching this kind of stuff. If you continue to study, you'll stay ahead of this great Thanks so much, Ken. That's ah, that's that's such great advice to leave with. It's the days of just closing your eyes and throwing a dark are over. But if you put the time in the effort and like Ken just suggested, uh, you have a great opportunity. So without go ahead and wrap it up. Thanks so much, Ken,

appreciate your time, my pleasure. Mark always great talking to you man. Yeah,