Crisis Investing Legend Explains What Comes Next | Doug Casey

International Man. Doug, thank you so much for coming on the show. Well, it's supposed to visit with you Mark at the moment, I'm in the quiet backward, a little welfare state of Uruguay where I've been sitting out this COVID hysteria. Oh wow, do you do you are the International Man? Well? Um, I gave a little bit of an intro, and of course, like I said, I've been following you for a long time, at least a dozen

years at this point. But I'm guessing there might be a couple of people left that aren't sure who you are. So just give us a quick background on kind of maybe what you've been doing and where you're at right now. Well, my first book was called The International Man, and it was a guide book to making the most of your personal freedom and financial opportunity around the world, among other things. That book became the largest selling book in the history

of Rhodesia. Uh and that's one record that's never going to be broken. UH. And of course my current blog is called international Man dot com kind of after that book. And then my second book, Crisis Investing, became the largest selling book of the year on the of any type, and it was number one on the New York Times list for eighteen weeks and on the list for about

thirty so. And I've written a number of books since then, although now I'm basically doing novels, because there are many things that you can say in the form of fiction that you actually dare not say in the form of nonfiction.

First novel happened to have a copy with me is Speculator, which is a story about the gold mining business, with our hero Charles Knight, making a couple hundred million dollars, which is possible in bull markets in gold, and then having it stolen from him after he gets involved in a bush war in Africa, where I've spent a lot of time and uh, and I wrote drug Lord, and we're just finishing one called Assassin now, which is really kind of a hot potato because it goes into the

morality and the history and the ethics of the techniques of political assassination. Just kind of now. I suspect it will do well. Because it was a title like Assassin, most people we'll think, oh, it must be about killing Trump. I'm not against Trump. Actually, he's vastly the alternative for whatever problems he has, and he does have problems, to believe me. But anyway, that's what I'm doing. That's kind

of who I am. Mark. Yeah, that's great. Um. Now I'm curious, um, just dipping into the novel for a little bit. Now again, Right, you've made your career investing, crisis investing, speculating, um, and now you're writing novels about speculators. And so really it seems like the last thirty years or so, really you've been um, trying to educate people right through your research that you've been done doing and

so forth your books you've been writing. I'm curious through the novels still teach people, but in more of like a story format or is it just like for fun and there's really no lesson there. No, there's lots of lessons that are the UH. The first novel, Specular Later, is actually a a fun textbook in the gold mining industry and the gold mining stock market, UH, and all of the problems, the scandals, the frauds that come up

with it. Our hero in the book gets lucky on a punt he makes on a gold mining stock that has a property in Africa. So he decides to go to the country of Gondwana to check it out, and from there he gets involved in a in a bush war. And so no, it's it's a great story, but you can learn a lot about the way the gold mining business works in it, just as a drug lord. Second book, you can learn a lot about the drug business because in my younger years I toyed with the idea of

becoming a drug lord. Long story, don't want to hear it now. And of course I'm not really toying in the third book with the idea of becoming an assassin. But I think for the next decade, UH, what we're looking at, Mark is the beginning, well, the climax of the collapse of Western civilization, which is a which is a genuine tragedy. So, um, yeah, these are things you can say in fiction that it's better than a nonfiction. I think. Yeah, definitely makes sense now for everybody that's

tune in and watching. As I said, I mean, doud Casey, he's a legend. He's been really reporting on this type of stuff that I talked about all the time for over thirty years. Um, and we're gonna dig into crisis investing. What he sees happening right now. I'm gonna ask him about, um, where we see things going, what the endgame is, what happens to gold, Um, maybe get into bitcoin if he wants, and really kind of what we what he sees as as happening here. So a lot we're gonna unpack. Um,

So stay with us. We're gonna dig into some good stuff. But Doug back to UM, So back to the book Crisis Investing. Um, tell us about crisis investing and how is that, how is that like your thesis and how have you kind of followed this crisis investing well. As the government has become more powerful over the last century, actually since since World War One, it's become more and more important to perfect your skills as a speculator even

more than an investor. Uh. An investor is somebody that allocates money in order to create new wealth, that's excellent. A speculator is a little bit different. A speculators somebody who capitalizes on distortions in the marketplace, generally politically caused distortions. And I'm afraid that with the trillions of dollars being created by the US government and many many trillions more currency units by every other government in the world, now, uh, it's going to become very very hard to be an

investor in the years to come. You're almost going to be forced to be a speculator. So that's why the gold mining business in particular is a good place to be right now, because I think that there's going to be a panic into gold. It's not cheap anymore from some points of view, but it's going a lot higher before this is over, because they're going to destroy the dollar. Yeah. Now, obviously he wrote that book back in and they've been

destroying the dollar. I mean, whatever date you want to put on it, definitely since nine seventy one, right when they when they left the gold standard. Um, so ten years later you wrote the book. Um, But here we are thirty years later and they're still destroying the dollar. Um. Right, They're still printing more dollars um. Does it seem like at some point like how long can they keep this

charade going? Uh? Yeah, I don't think they can keep it going much longer, because at this point, the government's debt is on a hyper while I curve, in other words, starting seriously back inteventy one, with the dollar was completely cut loose from gold, it grew gradually, gradually, gradually, and a couple of years and with the with the crisis of two thousand eight and on, we passed the knee where the curve started getting closer to the vertical. Now

it's heading towards the vertical. Uh So, I don't think this is going to go on another thirty years. I think THEES are going to be the most catastrophic decade that we've had for a very long time. It could be not just the biggest thing since World War Two, but it could be the biggest thing since the Industrial Revolution. Although I I hasten to say that the Industrial Revolution was a wonderful thing, but what's going on now is

going to be a horrible thing. Most of the people Most of the people in the world that have any savings have their savings in currency, preferably in dollars. But when they destroy the dollar, it's going to create chaos, social chaos, financial chaos, economic chaos, political chaos, and before it's all over, it may wind up in something resembling World War three. I know this sounds very apocalyptic, but we're in the early stages of something that's very, very,

very bad. This depression, I call it the Greater Depression, is not only going to be uh, much worse, but much different and much longer were lasting than the pleasantness of nine to nine. So that's the overview in a nutshell. Yeah, well, I mean I think you know, not to be doom and gloom, but I mean I think a lot of people, most people are seeing the same thing that you are. Um. I mean, at the end of last year, we had what eight different countries with over a million people each uprising.

Um And obviously coronavirus has slowed that down, but that's not going away. We're gonna we're gonna see that. Um. And so I think, yeah, you're not just doing gloom. I mean that's what everybody sees. Yeah, I hate to be associated with doom and gloom because actually, the longest trend, I'll give you a give you a counter argument if you were the longest trend in motion is the ascent of man. It's been going on for two hundred thousand years and things have been getting better faster as time

has gone on. It's almost like more as Low applied to anthropology. Uh So there is good news and uh what we're looking at financially and economically in in these

other ways, you know that tool will pass. And uh, I'm a believer in Ray Kurzwild's concept of the singularity, and kurz Wild makes uh, I think it's almost a bulletproof case that within twenty years, with the development of everything from the perfection of computing technology, the perfection of nanotechnology, genetic engineering, other forms of biotechnology, robots, uh, that we're going to go into a whole new era. So we just have a rough spot to go through over the

next ten years. So that's why you want to preserve your capital and make it grow so you're in a position to take advantage of the good times that are gonna come after these bad times are over right, right, I'm curious. Um So back in wrote that book. I've known you, I mean not not not that long. Obviously, I've known you for being the gold guy. I'm curious what brought you to gold. Was it being the speculator, like, oh, I can make a bunch of money in gold because

I see this asset going up for different reasons? Or was it something more like fundamental where um, you recognized that without gold being u and having a sound money, um, the whole system was going to fall apart. Was it was it the best speculator or was it more like ideological? Well, actually, I hate to say ideological. I'd prefer to say philosophical. You have to recognize what gold is. It's money, and

it's most basic form you. A lot of things can be used and haven't used his money, everything from cigarettes to seashells. Someone uses money. But gold is uniquely well qualified for uses money for reasons that Aristotle enumerated in the fifth century VC. It's durable, divisible, convenient, consistent, and it has use value. You can't get stuck with it. Um. So it's actually better and different than the other the rest of the other ninety two naturally occurring elements for

the use of use is money. But the thing to remember is with money, gold is the only financial asset that's not simultaneously somebody else's liability. And the Federal Reserve notes that we call dollars today are the liability of our central bank. They're backed by nothing. So this is all gonna blow up, and that's gonna be worldwide because

the other central banks in the world. People think that things like the Federal Reserve and other central banks, I think that these things are part of the cosmic firmament, but they're not. Uh So, yeah, you were our own gold because it is the only financial asset that it's not somebody else's liability. Yeah. Now, you've been doing this for a long time and at the end of the day, right, I mean, you've been writing books and newsletters and trying

to get the information or the education out there. Um. I love this quote from Henry Ford um back in early he said that if the people understood how the banking system work, there would be a revolution overnight. And really they've been able to kind of hide it, almost hide all this, like people don't really understand the dollar, Federal Reserve note, whatever. But now I think, especially with

the rise of the internet, getting information out better. And now what I'm seeing with bitcoin and people being more interested than ever, We're starting to see a lot of people waking up to this. Now, do you do you see this trend growing like people are like getting their eyes opened. Yeah. Absolutely. One of the great things about bitcoin, Uh, I wasn't an early adopter, but I've been a big adopter and it's been very very good to me, uh, is that bitcoin has has drawn people's attention to the

nature of money. People that are involved in bitcoin have taken to calling the dollar a fiat currency yep, which it is so uh. Once people own bitcoin, they have to start figuring out what wait have been? What doves bitcoin is value? Why do I want to own it? So this leads them naturally into economics and monetary theory, So that bitcoin has been very helpful and letting the cat out of the bag about what's going on monetarily. So you're quite correct. Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things.

I mean, Ei, there's so many things that I love about bitcoin, but just the fact that it's got people to want to learn more, that in itself is just such a big piece. Um. So you know you've been you've been doing this for a long time, thirty years.

You've seen gold go through several cycles. Um. Where as far as gold and a cycle, right now, it seems like now we're breaking out of maybe just like regular like cycles and actually going into more of like fundamental reasons why we need it, um, meaning like never have we seen, as you already said, right the Fed printing trillions of dollars interest rates going negative? UM. So do you see this as being like the fine like the

final bull market for gold right now? Uh? Actually, I think it is the final bowl market for gold, because by the time of this catastrophe is over, I think the gold is going to be reinstitutionalized as money. UM. Let's look at the history of gold prices, because what we want to do is make money from this or or let's say, increase our not wealth and increase our

standard of living. Uh. Before at seventy one, gold was controlled thirty five dollars announced it was suppressed in price by the government, So it exploded upward over the decade of the nineteen seventies, which were a bad decade in a lot of ways, um from other points of view, until it hit about eight hundred fifty dollars announced in January of nineteen eighty. Okay, so it was over priced then and subsequently, uh it fell, stock market did well,

the economy recovered. Uh it got as low as two hundred and fifty hours announced in nineteen in two thousand and one, and interestingly, gold at two hundred fifty dollars announced in two thousand one was actually cheaper in real terms than gold in nineteen seventy one at thirty five dollars. Now because the dollar lost so much value, al right, where are we now. It's going from a loan that was twenty years ago, so in urns of today's dollar.

Uh it hit a load back then of seven and I think this ballmarket it's gonna take it just close to ten dollars announce. I hate to pick up price at a time, but it's gonna go a lot higher because there's gonna be a panic into gold. People are gonna try to get out of dollars. I mean, look, if you live in a place like Venezuela or Zimbabwe,

you don't even use those currencies. The dollar is gonna be much more serious when it falls apart, because it backs all the other currencies in the world, everything is priced in dollars. UH. When an economy like Venezuela or Zimbabwe, the two most recent bad examples, collapses, well they're small places and foreigners can bring money in and rebuild. But when the US collapses and brings the rest of the world with it, uh, this is much more serious. And

some nothing nowhere country destroying gets currency. But it's gonna right here in the US now. One thing to keep in mind, just for the listeners, um, is that you know, when you just talk about gold going to ten thousand dollars an ounce, um, you also have to recognize, like, what does that mean for the dollar in itself? Right?

So in Zimbabwe they have one hundred trillion dollar bank notes and you know, keep one of my keep point in my wall, and I've spent a lot of time in Zimbabwe, and like and for what it's worth, mark, this is a this is a fun fact. A hundred trillion dollars Zimbabwe note uh. And the president of the central bank that printed up happens to be a friend

of mine. Long story that's not relevant right now. A hundred trillion dollars Zimbabwe no trades today for around sixty eight dollars, so you could have picked them up for nothing back and around two thousand three four when they were being printed. Uh, they've actually been excellent those pieces of paper. That's interesting. I bought one, um, but as a collect collectible. It was in like man condition. I bought it, I like a year ago, and uh, maybe ten bucks done. I don't know, Yeah, I want to.

I want to say it was like ten bucks or maybe fifteen bucks or something like that. I forget, but yeah, something like that. But I guess the point being, Um, you know when I was a kid being a millionaire or not not even a kid, I mean ten years ago being a millionaire with something, Hey, like being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, and like being

a billionaire isn't even a big deal anymore. When people like Elon Musk or Worth they say eighty billion dollars, right, So I mean when when you say gold going to ten thousand, like I might be a billionaire at that point, you know or whatever. Right, So, uh, it doesn't mean doesn't mean I'm gonna be able to buy my purchasing power will be what a billionaire does today. It just means that's what the dollars are right. Look, the dollar is sure liability of a bankrupt government. It's basically an

I owe you nothing. Sure it's still got value because you can take it down to the Chevy dealer and he'll sell you a car for it. But things are going to change very, very rapidly over the next couple of years. Do you see it? So you've been you've been you've been reading, watching, reading, reporting on this for thirty years. Um. You know, as we've already kind of talked about, it's like this escalating thing. Um and uh, I mean now you're talking about it like maybe coming

to an end at some point. I'm just curious. Do you think that the Fed still has a couple more tricks up their sleeve? I mean, I guess at some point the printing just stops working. That's that's kind of what you see. Uh yeah, I think we're at the end game right now, because even in two thousand and eight, who could have guessed that they take interest rate? I thought it was cosmically impossible to have interest rates to go below zero. But they have. Uh so what have

they done? They've taken interest rates as low as they can go. Uh. They they're printing up money by the bushel basket. So now what do they do? Um, Well, I don't know if they can pull another rabbit out of their hat or not. But I'll tell you what's going on outside of the US. And most Americans, especially now during the COVID hysteria, don't really look beyond our borders very much. But look, take Russia and China when

they do when they trade with each other. They don't use yuan and rubles because the Chinese don't want Russian rubles they don't trust them. Why should they, And the Russians don't want Chinese U want for the same reason. So what do they do? How do they how do they exchange goods? Well, they use dollars and those dollars

have to clear through New York. It's completely ridiculous that two large economies have to use a third country's currency when that third country is an adversary and could become an enemy. So my guess is, and this is starting to happen between other countries now that they actually settle debts and trading in gold. This is actually starting to happen. Uh. So that's why this would be the final gold bull market.

It will get to a level that makes sense relative to the rest of the wealth in the world, and uh, it will be really, it will be reinstituted as day to day money. People forget that. Up until Roosevelt in three gold was day to day money. Uh, it was in your pocket in the form of gold coins. I think I think we're going to see that again, although with the variation, Uh, it could be digital gold, whereof you use the blockchain to trade gold electronically, something like that.

The downside of the gold, though, is the centralization that's required of that. So gold is big and heavy, and so you need someone to store it and guard it and remove it. So you always have this centralization um. And anytime you have centralization, then you have manipulation UM. And I think that's maybe what caused the death of

gold in the first place. Right you had all the gold centralized by the banks, and then at some point they just well then then they count confiscated whatever goal was left, and next thing you know, they now they completely manipulated the system. So it seems like if we go back to a gold system that's again centralized, we might be susceptible to going back down the exact same path again. Well, of course I don't believe the government belongs in the money business. There we go, separate money

and state. I mean, separate a state and money, Yeah, exactly. I mean they separated the state from religion yep, centuries ago. Now it's time to separate the state from the economy. Um. So money is a market phenomenon. You don't need the state involved in it at all. Once the state gets hold of money, uh, they use it as a form of indirect taxation. And this is very serious because the

US government is totally incompletely bankrupt now. It has been for decades actually, but now, um, now the raps are off now everybody can actually see what's going on. So this is why I buy gold personally in the form of fungible coins. Yeah. Now, um, I want to I want to chase down the end game, as you call it, and talk about what that actually looks like. I have a couple of questions for you there, um, and see the big question I want to ask is UH inflation

or deflation in gold. But before we get to that, UM, I know you were telling me before we started recording that, Um, you're actually part of a a pretty big company that I've been kind of following a gold mining company. Actually it's called gold mining, right, Um, Do you want to tell me about that? Well, over the year, there are, as you may know, Mark, about two thousand uh gold companies in the world, companies that are involved in exploring for,

or developing or producing gold. About two thousand of them. Most of them are burning matches, uh, I mean the next thing up from a couple of prospectors out in the desert hoping to find the treasure of Sierra Madre. Most of them aren't worth owning. So over the years I've become very particular about the ones that I buy. And actually, just after its founding, I got involved with Gold Mining Inc. It's one of my largest positions. I'm

continuing to buy it um for several reasons. Uh. I like the management very much, and in speculating in mining stocks, I developed something called the nine P S C Demonic, the nine things you want to look at before you buy any mining company. The number one P is people who's running the company, because the good people can turn a nothing into a giant company. Bad people can take a giant company and run into the ground. People's number one second thing is the property. There are things the

finances spelled with the pH uh and others the promotion politics. UH. Perhaps they're relevant to go into all those things at the moment. But Gold Mining Inc. Is UH one of my biggest positions. Why because during the recent bear market UH for gold cyclically it's it was going to from twenty eleven when it hit its last peak, went down to as low as about during that bearer market. Amer Nanny, who runs the company UH has been buying a lot

of properties, slightly sub economic properties. UH. And now he has twenty five million ounces of resources. UH. This is a huge number. I mean now even the largest UM, the largest companies in the world only have well Barrick and Newmont, let's say, fifty million ounces of reserves. Reserves are different than resources, Uh, an important distinction to make. But the resources, which is to say, suburbs gold is in the ground. It just hasn't been proven to be

economic proven, but we know that it is. UM. Right now, you can buy gold in the ground with Gold Mining Inc. Uh for about ten dollars announce. Uh that's a trivial amount because right now with gold at about two thou dollars announce. The industry is coining money. It's buying gold at ten dollars announced in the goal in the ground. Look, the stock is very, very cheap. That's that's why it's

that's why it's about my third largest position. Another thing I mentioned about it is that they're planning on getting into the royalty business. And incidentally my largest position as a company called Metalla, which is a royalty company. Otherwise they don't mind the gold. And what they do is um pay the mining company cash upfront so they can mind the gold and then take a royalty on the gold after it comes out of the ground. Long story.

But the gold by again is also got to get that it's this it's a stock training it around two dollars us UM. I think within the next year we'll see it much much higher. Yeah, Yeah, I've I've been talking about gold miners quite a bit on the channel um And and I've even talked about how to how to find the good ones, how to value them. And I also said the first thing I look for is

the team the people. As you say, um And and I basically said kind of the same thing you said, which is a good team isn't gonna go work for a bad company, right like, and so they do that. That helps with a lot of the vetting if I see a good team. And so when I was looking through this company, I saw you were part of it, and I figured, wow, were they got dug in? They must be pretty good And it looked like, Uh, the CEO they hired um for their mining company, David Gara,

follows also like a industry titan, right. I mean he was like one of the founder was part of the biggest merger in the gold mining space. Yeah. This this company is going to be listed on the New York Stock Exchange in their future. It's going to draw a lot of attention to it. And it's gonna draw a lot of attention to it because of the people that are running the company, because of the assets it has, because it is going to be a bubble in gold

stocks generally. Uh. Look, all gold stocks in the world, uh two thousand of most of them are crappy, but add up their values together and they're less than one half of one of the value of the stock market. In fact, if you take all of the gold producers in the world and take their market caps together, they're just slightly more than the amount of cash that Apple alone has in its bank accounts. That's how small and unknown the industry is. Nobody knows. Look, fund managers have

been taught to treat gold as a pent rock. They don't care about it. It's totally off the radar screens. But in my opinion, the next bubble, I mean, we've had a housing bubble, We've had an internet bubble. Uh. They create all these trillions of dollars. It goes from one bubble to the next. In my view, the next bubble is going to be in gold stocks and gold.

So you want to get positioned and these things now, and you want to get into cheap companies that have the gold, have the management, the type of thing that when the fund managers start buying these things, which they are not yet. Although Warren Buffett incidentally, for the first time in history about a gold stock, he bought twenty million shares of Barrack uh was released in his last quarterly.

So this is like a straw on the wind. Uh. Now, this is you want to be positioned to these things now because in the past, when we've had gold bull markets, and we've had five of them since nineteen seventy one, the average junior mining stock has gone up about ten times in price. That are the most volatile securities on the planet. Yeah, this is going to be one for

the record books. Yeah. I just made a video talking about Warren Buffett buying buying in the golden Obviously for twenty years he's been saying I would never buy gold. You know, you dig it out of the ground and then you have to guard it. How stupid is that? But I always understood why he doesn't like gold and Big Win for that matter, because it doesn't do anything, doesn't make anything. Um. He always wants to buy companies

that produce things like co Cohler sees candy. Um, So buying a gold miner actually makes sense to me because it's not buying gold, it's buying a company that produces things. Did you see the same thing? Absolutely absolutely correct. And his an argument about gold not doing anything and being a pet rock, it's ridiculous if he had if he had a hundred million dollars in hundred dollar bills, they just sit there and they don't produce anything. It's because

their money they're used for preserving wealth and trading. So it's intellectually dishonest on his part to uh to make those arguments. But he has a genius. He's very smart, and uh, he can see that gold mining companies are going to be making a mint in the years come. And I made the same point that you did to one. I said that, you know Buffett, his strategy is like buying hold forever, like he's on Coca Cola for whatever,

fifty years. Like when he goes in, like he buys it so like he's not looking to like flip gold in a month, like he's going in for he sees like a long term tell wind here he must write one and to um, he he kind of leads like, as you just mentioned, right, the institutions aren't buying yet, and like now that he's buying it is probably gonna open up the floodgates for all these people. Would you agree with that? That's exactly the way I see it.

And so as of as of his last report, he's got twenty million shares of Barrack, which is the second largest gold miner in the world. New Mount is the largest. But the money is going to start flowing into secondary producers are smaller. But the reason why, uh, the reason why I own a lot of gold mining ink and I know we've been talking about it because, uh well I like to talk my book and it's one of my largest positions. Okay, So I'm telling you why I

own it. It's because they've got twenty five million ounces of resources that were he turned into reserves and big mining companies which have not been exploring over the last ten years very much. The argument has been made that we have Pete Gold, that gold production is actually going down because all of the easy, easy to find gold people have been looking for gold for for millennia. So all the easy to find high grade gold near surface

has been found. All the mining company these are going to be bidding for more resources stay in business because when Barrick or New Mount mine announced, they've got to replace it with another ounce or they're going to go out of business. It's a vanishing asset. So that's why I'm playing this company. It's got no turned expenses, it's just holding the gold and we're waiting for a major to come along and buy it for a much higher price, not just ten dollars announced in the gold in the ground.

By the time this is over, they're gonna be paying well over a hundred dollars or two hundred dollars announced in the ground. Yeah, so anyone listening can do the math on on that their their price at ten dollars announced in the ground. If they get a hundred dollars anounces to manage what that does to the stock price? Now, Doug, I know we got to wrap it up. I own I own a lot of gold stocks, and there are good arguments for all of them. Otherwise I wouldn't know them.

But this is one of the best arguments. Yeah. Uh yeah, Now, I know we're running short on time. We got to get off of here, but I did want to just ask you just another couple of questions. Um, you keep talking about the end game and we're at the final end game, and uh, I would agree with that. And I'm curious, Um, you know, I hear both sides the argument. I can, I can make both sides the argument, and I'm curious what you see. But one, Um, how how

this ends? So right now, obviously we're seeing the debt de leveraging, so we're seeing deflation. The FED, the central banks around the world are trying to inflate back up by printing Math's amount of money. Um, who's gonna win. Is the market gonna win with deflation or is the Fed's gonna win with inflation? Um? And if so, what does that mean to gold? Yeah? Well, this argument, are we going to ultimately have catastrophic deflation or runaway inflation?

These argument has been going on for fifty years and I followed it through that time. Uh. The answer is, you can't be sure which is going to win because with all the debt in the world, Uh, it could be defaulted on. And if a billion dollar bond is defaulted on, what happens to the billion dollars if somebody thought was their asset, it dies and goes to money.

Having I have billion dollars disappears as deflationary. But at this point, Uh, these central banks have the world's economies in a stranglehold, and they've said, and I believe them, that they'll print up as much money as necessary to keep the ball rolling, to keep the house of cards propped up. So I'm betting on much higher levels of inflation. But what I'm really betting on more than inflation or deflation per se, is chaos. We're gonna have actual financial chaos,

and it's gonna be scary. Yeah, and and uh I I write a newsletter is called the four Pillar Blueprint, and one of the four pillars is chaos chaos hedge insurance, which is precious metals of course, so exactly what you're talking about, the chaos, uh and and and we that's that's not even like speculative, Like we're seeing massive chaos right now. It's pretty easy to see how that's just going to continue to grow. We're just we're just in the first We're just in the first inning of the

ball game right now. Oh that's a scary thought, I know it is. That's why you're in Uruguay. Well, yeah, I'm I've got a thousand acre farm here with a mild river front near the ocean, surrounded by cattle and horses. Yeah. So I feel pretty good about this. But you know, you can run, but you can't hide this is this is gonna be a worldwide problem. Yeah. And you know, I've always thought I could run, and if anything, this pandemic has shown me that, no, there is not going

to be anywhere to run to now. The whole world is way too connected now, so um, we have to just my my philosophy is we just have to learn as much as we can so we can build up enough resources so we at least have options. Right, you'll have to You'll have to send me a copy of your Loser, and i'd like to like to say it, Mark, I sure will. Well, Doug Um, I know we're out of time, and I think we went a bit long.

So I really appreciate you giving me your time. Like I said, I've been, uh, I've been a huge fan. I've been following you for over a dozen years. You've barely been instrumental in my own philosophy, building it out the way that I see the world, and and so forth. So again, thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate it. It's just all been mine, all right. Thanks do all right? Thanks Dog all right, Thanks Dog all right.