Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Mark mass Show, where we talk about the decentralized revolution. The way the world is of course changing right before very eyes, going from a world of centralization, central planning, central control, to a world of decentralization as we look at it through the lens of politics, finance, and technology. It's always technology that changes the world more than anything, and we
have a world changing technology in Bitcoin. Now. I like to bring to you some stories, some education, some late breaking news, and of course some guests so you can hear from people other than me, and I have a returning guest in the studio with me today, Mark Goodwin. He is the director of print editorial at The Bitcoin Magazine. You can find him on Twitter at Mark Goodwin Underscore, I n and anyway, Mark, thanks so much for coming back on today and talk to me.
Yeah, Mark, thanks for having me on. Man, great, great to be back. Lots going on. I know we last time we got together, we talked about a lot of the things where we've witnessed in the last few weeks, you know, bank failures, people realizing duration risk, ordinals exploding. So yeah, it's great to be back and yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Yeah, I know, last time we were on was kind of right when this whole Bitcoin ordinals thing started, and we were kind of like hypothecating a little bit of like what potentially could happen for everybody just paying, you know, tune in that maybe doesn't understand what that is. Bitcoin ordinals. It's kind of like this weird word. It's basically a technological advancement, if you will, something new that's being done on the bitcoin blockchain for you know, ease of ease
of terms. Basically ordinals has been away. The main use case so far has been kind of putting these n f t s most of you have heard of n f t s by by now, meme coins, things like that, and now they're putting them onto the bitcoin blockchain as opposed to on you know, other blockchains, and so that seems to be kind of the main use case for that right now, and lately, like like this week, it's been causing a lot of uproar in the bitcoin space
for a bunch of reasons. So kind of maybe break down, you know, kind of what they are and maybe what some of the potential use cases of them are for right now for us Mark.
Yeah, absolutely, So, yeah, it was some tooling made by a bitcoin dev in San Francis in the Bay Area, Casey Rotemor and kind of the the general idea that you know, at its core is it allows you to store arbitrary data into financial transactions in a way that is as as least harmful as possible to the to the bitcoin. Why do you say arbitrary, I say arbitrary. It's maybe not the best word, but it's kind of
the word d jore. But I mean arbitrary in the sense that it's not innately a financial transaction, or rather that the data that's inscribed is not directly uh you know, it's not input or signature data relating to an actual financial exchange. You're actually putting in you know, a file. Uh, you know, all bitcoin transactions really are just you know, you know, they're they're just bites, and that's how transaction
fees are actually calculated. And so I say arbitrary data because it's, uh, you know, it's an alternative use case to strictly using bitcoin as a database for just a financial exchange. So, you know, the first use cases we're seeing, you know, it's a little bit of kind of a rehash of some of the speculatory commodity uh, you know stuff we've seen in the NFT space extended, you know, with JPEGs and movie files and and things like that.
And now we're kind of starting to see where a couple months away from you know, this this this tooling being launched, and now we're kind of starting to see people grock some of the things we talked about a little while ago actually, like some of these alternative use cases, like you know, uh, you know data that you want preserved, whether that's uh, the you know, King James Bible, whether that's an t L three D printed gun file, whether that's a Jason pointer for some you know, token mechanism
that people are building. So we're seeing all these kind of new use they have.
They put a King James Bible on there.
Yeah they have that fits yeah yeah, right. Yeah. So there's there's obviously technical limitations to how much arbitrary data you can put in, and obviously the biggest limit being this four megabyte block weight that was put in with Seguet and uh, you know, in ordinals inscriptions use that segregated witness block extension to too very cheaply and efficiently.
It's very low validation costs for nodes, and you can throw in uh, you know, up to you know, just under four megabytes into a block and break it.
Into multiple blocks too potentially. Right. So absolutely, if it was the King James Bible that didn't fit and maybe it takes two or three blocks or something like.
That, absolutely, one hundred percent. Yeah, they can self reference each other and you could absolutely inscribe. I believe. Actually, you're totally right. I think the Bible was done over four blocks. Yeah, and not full blocks either, but for transactions.
Yeah, when you think about it, you know, throughout history, something I've been pounded the table on last week. I did a whole segment on it, and I kind of talked about today as well, but I was I picked it up. I think with Matt Tayibe, maybe its Michael Sellenberger, it's the censorship industrial complex and how really it's just massive censorship, and it's censorship on our movement, censorship on our communication, censorship on our transactions, but as censorship of everything,
and they need that to maintain control. And censorship of communication and materials has been part of every power that bed, you know, going back through history, whether that's the Roman Empire, you know, the pros of Reformation, the fifteen hundreds, et cetera. And so there's always information that they're going to try to destroy. There was that book Aaron Height four fifty one where they went and just you know, burned up all the books, right, and so trying to preserve history,
trying to preserve you know, books. The Bible has been one of those books that's been under attack, you know, since the beginning, and so there's there's a there's a thousands of years of history that show why it would be important to have a way to do that. And what I like about it is like, you know, the printing press obviously changed the way that you could print Bibles. Used to do it by hand, word by word, but
then you could print them in mass. And you know, for decades there's been groups that you know, smuggle them in and out of countries and things like that, but now it can be sent digitally anywhere in the world, right, And so kind of going back to money, and really for me, it's something I've been kind of talking about with the bitcoin space for a long time, where the first killer app is money. But if we think about
money as communication or money as stored value. Well, then it starts to expand what we consider value in communication, and then it allows us to share value, share communication instantly and some super resistant. It's pretty big other use cases. I think it was Michael Sailor was talking about this week, like potentially like a will. Yeah, so like if I
have a living will. You know, we've all seen the movies where you know, someone from my family breaks into office and changes my will or something like that, Like that could be a pretty big deal. I mean, there's who knows how many use cases there are for stuff like this.
Yeah, Data durability and immutability is I mean a priceless you know asset. Really, I mean the thing that we really love about bitcoin as a technological tool, it allowed us to move money over time and space with you know, unbelievable efficiency. What what are we really moving across time and space? It's information, durable information that you know, we can sign and have property rights for. And applying that
to again quote unquote arbitrary data. You know, I see that as sort of this just it's almost it's not even an alternative use case in the sense that it is. It's really just utilizing bitcoin as a as an open ledger and a database with a dynamic block market. You know, you're buying block space anytime you want to make a transaction. That's how you get the censorship resistant quality. There's an auction for block space every ten minutes and you know, pay the fee, get in the block And that's kind
of always what it's been. And now people are kind of seeing, oh, there's there's there's more to it than this. And that's not to say that obviously, you know, the financial monetary revolution that is bitcoin is the most important thing, but you know it's a truth revolution and and and downstream of truth, you know, it can be arbitrary data storage.
Yeah, yeah, And again you just kind of to kind of go and expand like what is money? Well, money's communication, Money is value, Okay, it's a transfer of value. Okay, well then what is value? And so then all of these things sort of fit into that, right, and so kind of have to start thinking bigger. That's kind of the way that I look at it. But I know there's some dangers that we've been talking about, you know,
congestion on the blockchain, high fees. You know, now there's talks of you know, changing the code, I mean all types of stuff like that. You're listening to the Mark Mass Show talking about the decentralized Revolution. I'll be back with more in a minute. Don't go away, all right, welcome back if you're just tune in. You were listening to the Mark Mass Show. I'm sitting down with Mark Goodwin.
He's the director of print editorial Bitcoin magazine, and we're talking about big changes that are happening on the bitcoin blockchain and really to the crypto space overall, we would say, because it's really disrupting the entire crypto space. You know, we saw maybe the biggest use case for the crypto space, you know, ethereum, et cetera, over the last year has been in fts and meme coins, and now they're coming over to Bitcoin, which I think is pretty interesting. Good
and there's good and bad. Like everything, there's trade offs, right, and so we were talking about before the break sort of what they're really buying is just space on the block right on the blockchain, and so now we're seeing
congestion on the blockchain. All these these NFTs are buying up all the space, and then when it buys up all the space, it starts to push up the feast and now it's more expensive to send bitcoin things like that, and we're starting to see revision of you know, the twenty seventeen block size wars, and people are saying we need to make big we need to make the blocks bigger to fix this. I think it's what is that saying to those who don't know history are bound to
repeat it. And I think people should just go back and read that book. I mean, what's your take on this whole block congestion, high fee situation.
Totally? Well, I think there's a lot to talk about, and I think it has a lot of implications for the success and future of bitcoin. And these are some realities that I think we need to acknowledge. I think this is kind of the best, this kind of thee mania we're going through, or I would say, maybe just went through with this very big public mint that bought
up you know, megabytes and megabytes of block space. It's a bit of a stress test for what bitcoin is going to look like when we have five billion people, you know, trying to get in block space, you know, every ten minutes. The reality of bitcoin at a mass adoption level is very high. Fees, fees that are priced
in Satoshi's the atomic unit of bitcoin. And so yeah, I think we're seeing you know, kind of the first you know, in the modern era with kind of you know, layer twos a bit more established than they were, say in twenty seventeen, kind of the last time we saw block subsidy meet the block reward, or rather fees meeting
the subsidy. So just to break that down a little bit, when a minor wins a block, they of course get the subsidy, which is the you know, the the the issuance of new bitcoin, which is a set amount and it has every four years, so right now we're six and a quarter. And then there's of course the fees that you get from the financial transactions that have paid
to get in the block. And so this is the first time since twenty seventeen where we've actually seen the fee share of the total block award be higher than the subsidy. And we saw that a couple of days ago, and that is a reality that's going to have to happen.
You know, we have a haning a year away now, and we have thirty i think maybe twenty nine havings left after that and in which case, in around twenty one forty, there will be no issuance at all and it will be solely determined on if there is bitcoin user activity sustaining the miners securing the network, and that's going to rely on fees being high.
So this is kind of a nice reason why high fees is a good thing.
Absolutely, I think, uh, there's a lot of talk in kind of the alt coin community, you know, chirping about bitcoin, and when fees are really high, they go, okay, look, you can't scale. Fees are high, I can't buy coffee. And when fees are low, they say, oh, you have no security budget, you need tail emissions, and it's just it's ridiculous. It's like, no, this is what bitcoin is going to have to mature into, and there's going to be humongous demand, and there's some mathematical realities to the
limitations of that demand. And you know, we can't simply have eight billion people holding their own utxo and transacting for all their day to day transactions on the main chain. It just can't happen. So we got lightning. Lightning Also, of course, you know, it requires on chain touches when
you open and close a channel. You know, there was a lot of worry of people that had opened up Lightning channels, you know four years ago or three years ago, two years ago, when the fees were very low, and part of the trustlessness of these hashtime law contracts that uphold the trustlessness of lightning, you know, you set your fees for the force closes at the time of open and some clients weren't ready to do replaced by fee to be able to actually force close your channel in
a high fee environment. Is that trust list if you can't close to the main chain, right, So there's a lot of stuff we have to look at and just be honest about scaling and where we're going to go. And I think this is a great stress test because it's going to subside, you know, the mania will will die. And I think a lot of people look at this as an attack of some sort, and it's like, well,
remember this is bitcoin. Thanks thanks for paying our miners and wasting all of your bitcoin, you know, doing this quote unquote spam attack. If that's what this is. You've sustained the market and fed our miners. Thank you. Yeah, and now we get to learn from it. That's really how I look at it.
Yeah, I've been kind of looking at the same way. And just so for everybody that's kind of catching up on this, if it's a little bit over your head, you know, you can send bitcoin on the main blockchain, which is final settlement, and now it's congested, so it's costing me a little bit more money, but you can move it over Lightning for almost instant and free. And so if you want to buy the cough, send it
over Lightning. Now people say, but it's centralized, Well, it's more centralized, but for a cup of coffee, what do I care? If I'm going to buy a house, I mean, what's the big deal. It's cheaper than a wire transfer, So I'll just do it that way. So you can choose what your fee level is, how much security you want, and so that's great. I think I think more security
is better. I'd also say some of this potential attack seems like there's some credibility there, because it looks like a lot of the stuff that's being posted on there is just garbage, and so potentially it is. But to your point, well, they're going to run out of money, and thanks for pain. Pain for more security, which is interesting. But one thing I saw that to me seems a little bit concerning is Luke deschar or however you pronounce
his last name, that's year. I mean, he's been a bigcin core developer, you know, for a long time, for over a decade, and you know, he obviously hates ordinals, and now he's talking about how we could create another software update to stop them by treating them as spam that would filter out you know, tap fruit transactions that
have ordinals in it. And I am already I thought, I think maybe we talked about this on the last show, was like, you know, do we need to be more thoughtful about changing the bitcoin blockchain because now we have unintended consequences and now it's like, what are we gonna do. We're gonna have this knee jerk reaction. We're constantly trying to like change chain change, and I think that's a dangerous situation to get in. I don't know what your opinion is on that.
Yeah, totally. I mean I think there's two big things that are the first one being one of the most important bitcoin developers, who was essential in figuring out how to do segue as a softwork, hates a humongous amount of the activity on bitcoin right now, and yet is actually pretty powerless to being able to do anything to stop it, which is a beauty of bitcoin, a sensorless, censorship resistant public good. And I respect Luke's opinion. I disagree in some ways. I mean, you know, what does
that matter? But I think so, I think that that's really important. And then as regards to the in regards to the knee jerk reaction stuff, I think we should be having a knee jerk reaction to the realities of what we just went through in a high fee environment. And if we're going to look at a change to bitcoin, which I think inevitable, I mean, first off, we have to literally fork just to fix the overflow bug. We
have a lot of time to deal with that. There's just a little time stamping overflow bug that's very easy fixed. But we do need to fork to fix it. So there is an inevitability of that. But I think we got to look at the realities of what we just went through with as a fee market, make sure we're ready to really scale to layer two and beyond. You know, we're gonna need financial services to service eight billion people,
five billion people one billion people. Yeah, so I do hesitate and and and want you know, those to really think about this, and yeah, let's not move too fast and break stuff. There's a reason why we did segue. We did tap root, and we have the discount witness and we should you know, remember that and learn from the high fees and got it.
I gotta I gotta cut you off there because I gotta take a quick break. If here's just two listen to the Mark Mass Show sitting down with Mark Goodwin. We're back with more in a minute. Don't go away, we got more to coming, all right. If you just tune in your listening to the Mark Mass Show. I'm sitting down with Mark Goodwin. He's the director of print editorial at Bitcoin Magazine, and we're talking about the changes that have been going on on the bitcoin blockchain space
and the crypto space overall. This week, it's been a lot of noise and so we were just talking about that. If you're just tune in, you know you were talking about right before I had to cut you off, we had that commercial break. But how you know, it's a good test. It's a stress test, and we grow through stress. We need stress because that shows us where we need to grow, it helps us grow, and so from that perspective, I think it's a good thing. I'm curious, do you think.
I mean, I'm a free market guy, so I think the free market sort of figures this thing out. It seems like if and again we kind of I said earlier, you know, looking at some of these this stuff that's been put on there, it does look like it's spam. But even if it's not spam, even if it's a legitimate jpeg or whatever, don't you think at some point, I mean, the market takes care of that, where like, hey, this is too slow and it's too expensive, let's just
go to BSV, you know, or something like that. Let's just go to where the big blocks already are. And so at some point the market sort of starts pricing that out. I would think monetary transactions are always going to be willing to pay more than a jpeg would pay.
Yeah, And I actually think that's you know, kind of to the last the last segment there where we were talking about things we could actually do to limit spam. You know, one of the things we could do, you know, or really the only thing we could do is make
it more expensive. You know, people always had the ability to put arbitrary data into bitcoin, So the restrictions that we would we would put in would really just increase the cost for the user to imbue data, but probably only by a factor of two or four, just depending on the limitations of the protocol. What you can actually uh you know, make make the block spase more expensive the market if that's enough to you know, to to
stop these transactions. The market is going to two act four x, ten x one hundred x and fees uh you know, any time there's that there there's sort of this this demand uh you know explosion. So the market is is already going to be uh pricing these JPEGs out.
And you're exactly right about the financial transactions versus this this these jpeg or this arbitrary data, is that they take advantage of this segue discount, and so they're priced lower than inputs and outputs which are not part of the segregated witness, and they pay the full weight of the fee. So financial transactions will innately you know, cost more and be weightier.
Uh.
And that's how the bitcoin actually looks at financial transaction fees. Right, the bitcoin fees on the main layer aren't based on the financial value of the transaction, it's the bite size. So there we are again. So yeah, I think financial transactions will absolutely outpace and these large transactions simply won't scale. It's going to be unbelievably prohibitively expensive to put in large files when there's any sort of demand on block space.
Yeah, so get all those important books like the Bible and your three gun sematics and get all those in.
Now, yes, exactly, Like what do you want to preserve? Yeah exactly.
Yeah, well it's still there, get it in there. But I mean, you know, I think also you kind of have to put these things into perspective. And so it's certainly too much money and takes way too long for a cup of coffee. But if you want to preserve your will, like I mean, dude, you pay a thousand bucks to preserve your will, like, so what right? So I think it kind of depends that way. We were talking about. You know something again back to I've been talking about a lot, is this censorship and so the
censorship complex, and we're seeing it happening all over. Big news this week came out, you know, Elon must seems to have I'm always skeptical, but seems to have really taken over Twitter to kind of really help the free speech uh you know effort, let's say, exposing you know,
the things with the Twitter files, things like that. Potentially, it looks like he's now even opening up his platform for Tucker Carlson to come over from Fox News, and as we were kind of talking before the break, he's even bringing on a new CEO and launching things like encrypted chat. How do you view like a centralized app like this kind of moving into this kind of war on free speech and encryption, et cetera.
Yeah, absolutely, it it. I think you kind of nailed it there. There's sort of this weird almost oxymoron of like, you know, we're defeating the gatekeepers by creating this all in centralized app where we can have Tucker Carlson and we can have you know, kind of uncensored socratic discourse. Right.
It is sort of strange, and I agree with you, I kind of, you know, I have my reservations about Musk, but also I think what he's done, you know, recently in regards to you know, me being a free speech absolutist, I think you kind of sort of have to tip your hat to that.
Yep.
And that's why we're seeing a Tucker Carlson has who you know, his audience's millions and millions. And to go to Twitter, I think is a very that's a sign post, you know, of this sort of you know, as you say that decentralized revolution in a way, he can shoot it out of his home and post it right online, you know, to the marketplace of ideas. I think that there's some interesting things of you know, where X or sort of Twitter, this kind of we chat USA thing
will go. I'm very curious because you know, I do hesitate. I think when centralization happens to an app, I get worried because I've been burned so much.
You know, I had Whitney web on I don't a week or two ago, and you know her think she's not a fan of Elon Musk, right, you know, And and to your point, I think, I think, you know, one thing that people lack, the public lacks these days, is nuance and so you don't have to be one hundred percent all in on somebody or out on somebody.
There's to your point, there's things that he's done that I like and I think are good, and there's things that he's done that I don't think are good, and so I don't have to be all in on anything. But you know, her kind of viewpoint, and I tend to agree with her, is that everything that we're seeing and discussing and fighting over is a distraction. Russia, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, a cultural war in the United States, like, all of this is all a distraction, and the distracting us from what, well,
distrust distracting us from the ultimate goal. What's the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is putting U into his digital panopticon, where we have digital passports that restrict our movement, digital passports for our money, and it's total digital control. And so she says that is the ultimate goal. And Putin is saying, hey, the West, they're for transitioning kids and the cultural this and that, and like they're the devil.
He's fighting the war against globalism and that looks good, but he's trying to put a CBDC in as well, right, And so back to Musk, it's like, well, he's on our side, right, but he's leading us to the same place they want to lead us to. See Ron DeSantis. He seems like a champion for freedom and free speech, and I support a lot of things that he does. But yet in Florida, they're trying to roll out of
digital ID. So it's like they're all roads lead to the same goal, right, And and I think that's the danger. And to your point, like a we chat in China, that's like a main source of control if we have all that in there.
Yeah, I have. I have some uh you know, I
just just some fear of kind of controlled opposition. Uh and some of this like kind of Hegelian dialectic playing out where you know, we all, you know, turn and look towards you know, the thought leaders that are coming out after this, you know, the COVID insanity and the in these lockdowns, and I look at some of these these people and I and I kind of see, hey, wait, we're you're kind of pushing us towards that panopticon that kind of led to this this disaster in the first place.
And I so I do have I do have some worries sometimes about that. And I think Whitney is right. I think she's she's a genius. She's an incredible journy. Lest I look up to her. Absolutely. I read all of her stuff and she does great pods, great pods, and yeah, I agree with her. I do think it's
a distraction. And uh, you know what is that final distraction you know from you know as well, it's financial control and data surveillance, and you know, in many ways, I think we're marching ever faster to that, and even sometimes I think some of the CBD talk is a bit of a red herring, where it's like, you know, we know Vault seven, we know what you know Julian released, and we've seen that the NSA does spy on its own citizens, and we do know that, you know, all
of our data is stored and these are walled gardens that are not really that walled. So uh, you know, I can't I can't really imagine financial surveillance being much worse than it is, you know, knock on wood.
Of course, don't say that you know a CBDC you know, is programmable. So surveillance is like we'll catch you and we can do something, whereas I think the programble is like we can preemptively do it. So you're guilty, guilty until proven innocent, so to speak. You know, if you're just tuning in. Youwhere listening to the Markmaas Show. Of course, we're always talking about the decentralized revolution. And I'm in studio with Mark Goodwin, the director of print editorial at
the Bitcoin Magazine. Of course, the largest gathering of bitcoiners will be in Miami next week at the Bitcoin Conference. We'll be bringing a lot of content to you from there. Check that out the Bitcoin Conference. If you're going to be there, hit me up. I'd love to hear from you. We got more coming up. I want to dig into a little bit more stuff, see if we can find a couple more crumbs here. So don't go away, back with more in a second. We back, all right, Welcome back.
If you're just tune in, you're listening to the markmas Show. Of course, always talking about the decentralized revolution, and I am in studio with Mark Goodwin, the director of print editorial at Bitcoin Magazine. If you're not subscribed, you should be checking out Bitcoin magazine dot com. Now, you know, just before the break, we were talking about how I was doing an interview with Whitney Web. If you're not
falling Whitney Web, you should definitely check her out. As well, but she was saying, now everything is a distraction to the ultimate goal. I live on the beach in California. But Buddy, about two years ago, I bought a ranch out in Texas and I got some cows and some goats, and I'm kind of figuring that whole thing out. I don't live there full time. And I was using this analogy with her where I don't know anything about animals, right,
not livestock. And we had these baby goats and we were trying to get them from the pen because our baby goats were disappearing. Every night we'd wake up there gone, some animal, predator whatever is getting them. So that was devastating for so we were trying to get the baby into the horse tables at night to protect it. So how do you get a goat, a mama goat and a baby goat out of a pen and move it, you know, a couple of acres into a horse table?
I mean cowboys know. I don't know. I don't know how to rope or whatever you got to do, so, but I do know how to use the carrot and a stick. So I literally got a carrot, like literally a carrot, which didn't work. Really well. Then I got this sweet feed and I put it in a willburrow, and then we dragged the willburrow sweet feed, and the goat was trying to eat it, and I could just it and then sometimes it would stop eating, it would get distracted, and so then someone else would come behind
it and kind of like scare it right. And so with the carrot, we were enticing it into the into the corral and with scaring it right, and it wasn't a straight line, but we got it there. And so that's kind of that's kind of where we're at with this, and so unfortunately all roads seem to be leading there. I know that you're going to be hosting a panel with Whitney Web there at the Bitcoin conference, which is
going to be awesome. I'm looking forward to that and talking about journalism, I'm curious your take on that because I see what she's talking about reporting about. Man, you would think in today's day and age, it has to be pretty scary just being a journalist being reporting on this stuff. And what's your thoughts on that?
Oh? Man? Yeah, I you know, not to be you know, egotistic or anything, but I do think about it, and I've I've had people comment some strange things on you know, I did this piece on SBF and FTX and other three letter agencies, and I talked lot about, you know, a lot of these strange connections and some of these things that have happened. This stable coin programmer was drowned, and right before he drowned, he tweeted that he was you know, being you know, set up and blackmailed by
you know, Israeli and American intelligence agents. And then he wound up dead on the beach. And I did a story on that, and I got some weird comments from people being like, hey, you're too young to kill yourself, but you know, blah blah blah. And I think it's in a way I kind of laugh at it because it's like, who am I, you know, But in another sense,
it's like it's very real. I mean, we see Julian asan she he's in prison, he's been in prison for four years and exiled for longer, and it's, uh, you know, we don't have a free press from the state standpoint as well as you know, we we know that there are dangers to this, and we've seen a lot of whistleblowers and journalists come out that have unfortunately, you know, made a sacrifice for the truth. Did you see that as a reality.
To sidetrack it a little bit, I'm kind of going back to Schallenberger and Matt Taiebe. They started some new organization censorship. I don't know, I have to pull it up real quick. I'll pull it up when I'm talking. But they went, you know, after the Twitter files got released, they got pulled in front of committee right in Congress, and they were questioned like, hey, who's your source, where'd
you get this information? On and on and on. While they were being interviewed, the FBI went to Matt Tayebe's house and raided him. So then they used the long arm of the weaponized the RS against it. But then then MSNBC host forget her name, meddie anyway, she she did a story that basically said she debunked the Twitter files and it was all made up and it was all false. And then the congresswoman Sherry whatever her name was, said, Hey, she said that she debunked all that. So now you've
lied to Congress. Now you're facing five years in prison.
Yeah, it's I mean, it's a rig system, you know, in the same way we acknowledge the monetary system. You know, we have these very special privileged debt partners. We have these very privileged you know judicial uh, you know, systemic infrastructure. And you know, this is unfortunately not a new thing.
I mean, we've seen it time and time again. You know, the powers that be sort of abusing and waltzing through you know, these sort of court cases or or or suits where you know, citizens that are doing any sort of pushing back on depression would would get hit with the full book. I mean, to me, it's that's so insulting and and so scary. It's it's incredibly disturbing that
our government would do that. Meanwhile, where you know, our president is tweeting about how the leading candidate for the Republicans is a threat to democracy, while we're jailing journalists, uh, setting them up, baiting them to come to court, and then raiding their house while they're in court, and you try to set them up for perjury. I mean, that's not a free that's not a free press. If you don't have a free press, you don't have informed consent.
If you don't have informed consent, then you can't larp about democracy. I think it's pretty simple.
Yeah.
Yeah, to me, it's very disgusting, and you know, I wish Matt the best. I think that's that's a horrible experience to go through.
So it's Censorship Industrialcomplex dot org. So everybody listening, check out that website, Censorship Industrialcomplex dot org and join it, join in on the fight. They say sunshine is the best disinfectant, So check it out, put your name in there in there, stay stay up to date on that.
So going back to introduce, you know, interviewing the Whitney Web, I was going to ask you, like, what are some of the big highlights, I mean you're kind of on the inside working with Bitcoin magazine, Like, what are you expecting out of this event? You know, maybe to learn who you who you're looking forward to seeing, or big announcements or anything like that.
Well, I think it's just wild to think the you know, and again I think bitcoiners are generally anti state, which I agree with. But seeing the evolution of the political in ons in the bitcoin community. Obviously, we had Bouquet you know, announcing legal tender a couple of years ago, which was literally world changing, and now we have two U plus you know, two or more presidential candidates that are going to be there speaking.
And Vivik Ramaswami. I had him on the show, yeah last week. I think it'll air this weekend.
Yeah, absolutely.
RK Junior, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they're on both sides of the aisle.
Absolutely. Yeah. We have Toulcy Gabbert who's kind of right in between, you know. Uh, And I think that's really important. I knew it was going to come. That's why we did the Orange Party issue with Buke, kind of getting everyone prepared. You know, hey, it's it's as much a call to arms as also you know, let's make sure they're doing what they can for Bitcoin and not just you know, putting a donation address on their website and taking your money. Like, let's let's see what they have
to say. And I think coming out to the Open Forum to be streamed to millions and speaking in front of thousands, you know, your ideas will will either win the room or not. And I'm very excited that, you know, as a as a you know, I look at our platform as a platform and as a free speech platform and seeing important people coming up and wanting to spend their time this I believe this is rfk's first appearance on his campaign, which is just kind of it's just
a wild thing to think. So I'm really excited with that. I think that's wild and speaks a lot for where the industry is going. And then of course, just anytime you can get in a room with bitcoiners, bitcoiners in real life, it's a special place. Going to meetups has changed my life. It's there's nothing like it, and it's just a big party, big celebration, and then we get to just see everyone's hard work that they've done since last year if you haven't seen them in the in
the meantime. So, yeah, lots of really interesting stuff, amazing art coming out, really good panels. There's gonna be some really spicy debates, some really cool firesides. Yeah, it's a ball man Miami. It's it's it's like nothing else.
Yeah, it's gonna be exciting. I'm going to be there. I'm speaking on two different panels on different days. I'm doing a book signing there for the Uncommunist Manifesto. If you don't have a copy of that, go get the Uncommunist Manifesto. I'm doing book signing. I'll be on the news desk one day, lots of stuff I'm super excited about. If you're going to be there attending, well, first of all, if you're not, you should be check it out. Go to Bitcoin Conference. You can get a discount with my code.
Just put Mark Moss in there and you get a discount if you do get a ticket with my code. I'm putting a little get together, so just hit me up on social media and we'll get you information on that. But regardless, if you're going to be there, hit me up. I'd love to meet you. Like I said, I'll be doing that and man, that's it. You've been listening to the Mark mass Show always talking about the decentralized revolution in studio with Mark Goodwin. Check them out on Twitter
at Mark Goodwin Underscore. I in director of print editorial at Bitcoin Magazine. Definitely get a subscription to that Bitcoin magazine dot com. Check us out next week at the Bitcoin Conference and that's what we got. Thanks so much for listening there.