We have.
My next guest is with an organization called Do No Harm. And Do No Harm is a group and I don't know if it's all medical personnel in Do No Harm, but they are working to drive this kind of political gender ideology out of medicine. I might be paraphrasing a little too generously there, but doctor Kurt Masseli is joining me now to talk about a complaint they filed about the University of Connecticut when it comes to limiting access to certain externships.
First of all, Kurt, welcome the show.
Oh pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
First of all, I just.
Kind of badly encapsulated what Do No Harm does? Can you tell my audience a little bit better what the purpose of Do No Harm is and who's a part of it.
Absolutely so. We're an organization of over thirty thousand members, and that could be medical people or non medical people, citizens, policymakers, physicians, nurses, the whole nine yard. And we're focused on really two main issues, and that's getting identity politics out of medicine and also focusing on keeping kids safe from harmful gender ideology.
So those are our real two main focuses. We want to bring medicine back to focusing on excellence, on quality, on patients and not dealing with the social engineering and the social justice movements and the other dei ideology that has really taken it by storm.
I mentioned this too, doctor Masseli before we came on the air. It's gotten to the point now where I'm hearing terrible stories about the competency of some of the medical students in various very high level programs. Like I have already decided I will never see a doctor that's come out of UCLA in the past ten years because of some of the things I've heard there. But this in Connecticut is one of those examples of a well intended program that actually ends up being very racially biased.
So what did you guys file a complet specifically?
Absolutely so, As you mentioned, University of Connecticut School of Medicine has an external clerkship program that they offer to their fourth year medicals that offer fourth year medical students, and so these are really coveted spots when you're our fourth year medical student, you're in your last year, you're looking to go to residency, and oftentimes these programs will use these externships as a means of recruiting and attracting
those future residents there. And so they could be in drmatology, they could be in internal medicine, they could be in whatever field it might be that the university is offering. And what University of Connecticut has done is they focus this rotation, this externship, which offers a fifteen hundred dollars scholarship as well to pay for travel and living expenses
while you're there for the four week rotation. They've offered it really only to those underrepresentative medicine, and so those who are Wide or Asian are really unable to apply. And that's a big problem. That's a racial discrimination that's involved. And again these are very much coveted spots. There are spots that allow you to have effectively auditioned for the residency program by making those connections, meeting folks and such.
And you know, it's certainly our belief that you should be looking for the most qualified and exceptional folks and no matter who they are, no matter what the color of their skin is, they're dender their race, whatever they are,
whoever they are. The key is really flatting the most qualified and best applicants and not again sort of socially engineering this to just pick people of certain characteristics, and you know that is just it's wrong from a moral standpoint, it's certainly wrong from a legal standpoint, and it also creates this terrible divisiveness in society, and we've seen an
unfortunately DEI do that in many respects. And as you mentioned, you know, the initial I guess good intentions really do those south and unfortunately really poison the well of medicine as opposed to to really helping us focus on the quality of the patient and the quality of the student and the doctor that one will have when one is in need of care.
I think most people, and I'm sure that there are outliers to what I'm about to say, but I think most people want a great doctor and how they look, their background, their history doesn't really matter, Like I just want a great doctor who knows how to deal with whatever medical issue that I am dealing with.
And I think that to the point you were just making.
This actually can have the effect of hurting underrepresented groups in medicine if the perception exists that they were only elevated to that position because of their race, They only got their residency because of their race, and that's unfortunate, and it really undermines the credibility of hard working minorities who are well qualified and well trained and great doctors to even have that shadow cast over them. I mean, I think that should be a significant concern.
I think that's well said, Mandy, You're absolutely right. I mean, folks want the very best when they're in the oar, when they're in the er, wherever they are in that medical system, that medical chain. You want the very best provider, and you want to have confidence that that person is the very best. And and how how awful that is for someone who is underrepresented, who is highly qualified, who
is treating you. There should be no doubt that that person is there because of their qualifications, and unfortunately Dion has caused much of that undermining. And again, our focus really should be on quality, on elevating the patient care that's being delivered, and focusing on those things that really matter.
So let me ask this question about about this particular issue.
This is in Connecticut.
How many other programs like this exist across the country. How many other complaints is do no harm and you know, filing on a regular basis, How pervasive is this sort of thing.
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, we do see this. I mean we've seen it for the past years and know some years ago Medical University of South Carolina believe was one where we filed complaints. They change their ways, and that's a positive. That's certainly what we want to see. We want to see programs like this that have these externships that are opened up to folks again of all colors and creeds and allow really the best and the brightest
to be participt have beens in them. But unfortunately, there are many programs that still exists that are out there like this, and it's it is important for us to file these complaints and to really again advocate for merit, to advocate for excellence, and to promote that's that's what Americans want, That's what we really need in medicine, and certainly in this day and age, it's it's critical for us to continue this work. So unfortunately, this is a
probably have seen elsewhere. We've seen it in various forms in other locations, and we file similar OCR complaints in terms of Guysing Aer and Duke University. So there are others that are that are certainly there, and we again Our hope is that in the end, as these investigations are done, the universities will change those programs that will
open them up site. We have all students who are able to apply and to be part of it, and again for the best and the brightest to really be those who are selected and continue to advance quality of medicine.
Let me ask for one point of clarification, because I think I know this, but then I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking maybe other people don't. I think people assume that when you go to medical school you sort of automatically get a residency. That's not how it happens. How do people get a residency other than what we're talking about now, which is an externship the fourth here. If you don't have that, is it harder to get a residency? Tell me about that process?
Yeah, no, certainly. These externships in some respects or auditions, right. It gives you an opportunity to meet the folks that are at another university that you haven't been going to school at, and so it allows you to show your stuff and to show to make those connections, to build those bonds, and so in many respects they are an
audition and that's a good thing. It gives the resident, the medical student a sense of what would it be like to be a resident here, and likewise, it gives the residency program a sense of what would it be like to have that medical student here. And certainly if they like you, they would be more likely to put
you into the match. And so what happens is that during that fourth year of medical school, yeah, residence or medical students are looking for residency programs and they're effectively they're effectively interviewing there and they're then ranking them match system. In March, the match results come out and so you find out where we are. And really what that match process is, it's very much like a dating process. You would rank the top schools that you want to go
to for your residency. The residency programs ranked the top residents that they would like to see, and there are top medical students they'd like to see in their residency class, and it goes into a mathematical formula and then you know, you get a letter and you find out where you're going.
So's it is a competitive process. And you know, for certain residency programs like dermatology, like orthopedic surgery, those are very competitive, those are really extraordinarily high demand, and you know, unfortunately what's happened in many medical schools is it's hard for a residency program to distinguish who are the excellent and the well qualified folks that should be in these programs, partly because the USMLE it's our licensing exam that we
take the first part of that, which is given after the second year of medical school is now past fail, so there's no distinction there. So I think if you failed, but there's no distinction within the past category of how well did you pass and such. And likewise, many medical schools have moved to grading systems that are pass failed themselves and so there's no ABC or honors, high pass and such, and it becomes very difficult to really tell who should in the next neurosurgeon be or who should
the next plastic surgeon be. It becomes a highly, very ambiguous and that makes these externships even more important, where folks have the opportunity to really show who they are and be able to build those relationships and perhaps match
into those programs. There's certainly other residency spots out there that aren't as competitive, and you know, oftentimes those are in the primary care fields, but nonetheless we still want the very best, whether it's in primary care, and certainly the specialties like the surgeries, the neurosurgeries and the like.
I am shocked to hear about the past fail thing.
But you know the old joke. I'm sure you've heard it.
What do you call the person who graduated last in medical school?
Doctor? Right?
I mean there's still I guess passing, and honestly, like I couldn't tell you what the rank of any of my doctors are in medical school, but I will tell you this, I have heard enough bad things about Ivy League medical schools in the way that they are conducting their business that it gives me pause before I would see a new doctor who came out of Columbia or came out of UCLA, or came out of some of these premiere programs because of the kind of nonsense that
you're pushing back against. Now, I just want a great doctor. That's all I want. Great doctor, don't care anything else about you. Great doctor is all I need for it. I'll let you have the last word.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. When I went to medical school, we did hear the adage of P equals MD, pass equals MD. But you know what that is. It's not good for us to go to the lowest common denominator. We should really want to excel. And I think that's the point. Was an article in the Newland Dural Medicine that spoke to that effect that unfortunately this diminishment of really any sort of distinction has become problematic because people
aren't striving as hard. And I think if in any avenue, we want healthcare to have folks who are striving hard again really excelling in every way, shape and form if they can, and unfortunately we're losing that, and it's important for us to focus on that. And you know, we'd love to have folks join Do No Harm, to really join us in this cause of getting identity politics out of medicine where at do noharmedicine dot org and likewise keeping kids safe from gender ideology.
Doctor Kurt Mascelli, I put a link on my blog today if people are driving so they don't have to remember that. I appreciate your time today and I'll be watching to see what happens at the University of Connecticut because of your organization.
Appreciate it. Mandie, thank you so much.
All Right, have a great day. That is doctor Kurt Masseli with Do No Harm