Susan Miller is a past school board member in Jefferson County Schools and left not that long ago, what after the twenty twenty three election. Right Ryany Zackly, she joins me now here in studio, welcome to koa.
Hey, it's good to be here. Thank you, it's good to have you here.
And you really are just a wealth of information on understanding how things work.
In Jeffco schools.
So I'm just going to give you a very big picture question, Okay, broad question.
How do you.
Assess how the district has been performing in the last few years under Superintendent Tracy Dorlin.
I think you look at it a couple different ways. Certainly the most important is to focus on children. How are kids doing? How have they been progressing? And I think you look at not only the academics, but also how they're feeling about where they are in their schools, and are the academics challenging enough and are they moving forward?
And so talking about the academic side, when you look at the measure of a progress, we can see the high growth and high proficiency levels moving from reading this past year twenty three to twenty four, from fifty four schools to seventy seven schools high growth high proficiency. That's exciting. Same thing for math, right, we should be looking at sixty eight schools high growth high proficiency last year. We're at seventy nine this year. So they're moving in the
right direction. And last week at the board meeting, when we had a little bit of theater with the teachers' union and the clapping and everybody being upset, you know, you're not paying attention to us, you're not listening to us. They left, they got up, walked out, and they were not there for the monitoring report, which was basically showing how are kids feeling, what are their happy factors in their schools, and those were all on the rise, all improving.
So if we're focusing on what is best about Jefferson County, our job is to educate children, and we want great teachers and et cetera. But we really should be looking at how the kids are doing in school academically and from a good feeling perspective about where they are.
So in terms of the academics, in terms of the environment overall, you think the metrics are showing at least some clear improvements.
Absolutely, and that's very different from even what we were seeing pre COVID, right, so you know, we can kind of say, hey, look what was happening pre COVID. We hit COVID. That was horrific. Kids stayed home, came back you know, two years ago, fully right, and we had a lot of challenges. You know, there was a lot of behavior issues. There was a lot of you know,
not knowing how to do school anymore. We can see that that has shifted, and that's taken a lot of effort nominally from central of the district, but also the teachers and also the people that are in those classrooms and in those buildings.
Former jeff Co School's board member Susan Miller joining us in studio. When we look at some of the downsides negatives to what's happening, I think there are a couple glaring things. One is the financial state, and I'd love for you to lay out some of this because they're in a really absurdly rough position, and that's putting it mildly in jeff.
Co right now. Yeah, so let's go back in time. You know, when we had COVID, the federal government said hey, we've got to pay attention to public schools and they sent out a lot of money, and so starting in twenty twenty one, we had a huge inflow of federal dollars what we call eser dollars. But all that money was supposed to be spent by the end of twenty four, right, so we were supposed to be finishing that all up. And what Jeff co did during that time is they
took the money. They put it into certain features in the facilities. They also put it into student tutoring, student academics. They invested in program curriculum. For the first time, they actually had consistent programming for reading, math programs as well, and so they invested both in the facility side where
they were allowed to as well as in the buildings. Well, money is fungible, right, and so at that time we also started to increase salaries and we started at colas and we did steps and levels and it started to become more and more expensive, but it was kind of covered because of what money we had also received from the federal government. There's nowhere to hide. Now. We have declining enrollment and we've had that over the past decade.
We have increasing revenue, increasing expenses. We have costs associated with programming now we want consistency in the curriculums that they've been investing in. So there's a lot of different components going on in terms of cost and expenses. And what's happened is over the past oh gosh, you know three years. Let's see, in twenty four to twenty five, we had a draw of deficit about like a draw from our reserves, right of about thirty nine million dollars.
This year, we're looking at another forty million. Next year, we're looking at sixty million. What does that mean? That means we're starting to get to the marrow and we're going to be starting to impact children. And you know, you cannot afford a six and a half percent cola and a two and a half percent steps and levels because everybody also not only do they get that cola,
but everybody moves up right, So it's exponential. And two years, these past two years alone, one hundred million dollars in costs associated with you know, rising rising staff level salaries. So I mean that's not sustainable. And and they know that they've done that. I mean, they acknowledge that they've done that. So to me, it's either you know, we're robbing the treasury right and like we did in Roman times, or it's just kind of malfeasance, Like what how do you do that?
Yeah, I mean the state is it's really hard to encapsulate it here on the air right now because it is so detrimental in terms of what's happened fiscally in Jeffrico schools. And I mean that falls at the feet of who most responsibly is that the problem? A folly of the board, Is that a folly of the superintendent? Everybody in leadership? Is that a tax revenue issue? How do you look at it?
I think I look at it as the board right now. They all ran on making sure that teachers' union and teachers should be well compensated, and I believe teachers should be extremely, extremely well. You want those people in their classrooms that are doing great things, you want to pay them well. I think, however, that rather than sitting back and saying, when we had that first deficit, you needed to put a plan in place about hey, how are we going to come out of that deficit? And instead
there was no plan. There was no directive by the board, which is under government under policy governance, the board has to direct the superintendent to do the work that they need the superintendent and her team to do. So, hey, what's that than going to look like we need to address the deficit that was never directed, that was never asked, And that to me is you know, combination of knowne oh it's ab sord. Yeah. No, we're not understanding necessarily
what their role and responsibility was. But they should because they passed the budget and there was a statement that was sent to the state that says, hey, we have to come up with a plan.
It's irresponsible, is what it is. And one thing that was staggering in the theatrical performance of the union last week at the board meeting when they issued there talked about their vote of no confidence and.
All of that.
Union leaders branded a proposed cost of living increased by the district and their negotiations as being only one and a half percent and plus a two and a half percent bump in this step in lane system that they have.
But they call that a pay cut. And yet, as you've pointed out, like it's.
What fifty three percent increase in salaries raises over the last five years, right, but things are expensive, you see, so therefore that amounts to a pay cut, which only in government can you get away with that and possibly end up with more.
Well, and I would also say that's at the very top end, right of the scales, right, So it's not a pay cut necessarily for the persons that's in the middle of the scale. It's just that at the top of the scale they have nowhere else to go, right, So in their calculation they can sit back and say, that's that's kind of a cut for us, Right, We're not getting exactly what everybody else is, but well, you're.
Not getting an equivalent increase, that's not cut.
Well, I don't disagree, but when I kind of a point, right, and I kind of liked a fifty five percent increase, isn't that nice? Yeah, yes, it would have been nice.
It would be It would be wonderful to have that and then be able to say, well, you're not giving me more, So.
Now it's a pay cut.
Everybody who's dealing with higher egg prices than everything else, or I'm struggling to get by so many people?
What is what's happening right now? Susan Miller. Right, Well, I would also go back in time. Let's go back to two thousand and eight. And two thousand and nine when we had severe cuts as well back then, right, that was the recession. Everything was, you know, in chaos and the financial markets were crazy, et cetera. Because of
the housing debacle. They took cuts and said, you know, we took significant cuts back in two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine, so did everybody else, and you know, we continue to bring that up in negotiations. Well we took cuts back then, Well, everybody took cuts back then, you know. And to be able to say to my you know, retirement plan, well you need to make that up for me, or to my employer now saying well, I you know I took cuts back in
two thousand and two thousand and nine. You need to make that up even though I've moved around and et cetera. It's it's not real. And rather than going back and saying, well, you need you promised us, you can never promise the board can never promise to have another board increased salaries, et cetera. It kind of isn't that mentality again? Will we deserve this and not? I agree you deserve to be well paid, but the reality is you have declining enrollment,
your revenues are somewhat stagnant. We're kind of in a weird place compared to other school districts in Denver, right, and yet we're asking to be increasing. Whats what a businesses doing.
They can't just say, well, we're going to raise that they have to they say salary freeze or maybe furloughs.
I mean, look at the city of Denver.
They're in such a bad shape now too that they're doing furloughs. So I mean, you know, the Jeff co is in this terrible these terrible straits fit financially, and yet they're not understanding or showing any sort of And this is at least the union. Remember the union bosses are the ones that are engaging in these bargaining negotiations, but they represent less than a quarter of teachers in the disition.
When you actually think about it, you know, you have thirteen people making this vote of no confidence letter and send it out to the media, and you know, at the board meeting that's like zero point what two percent of total teachers and their own teachers' union, you know, didn't even know that this was happening. And so think about that, you had thirteen people put Jeff Co into just a crazy spiral.
Yeah, well, and the real quick before I wanted to talk about the union specifically. But the other big thing, the stuff that has been identified by Jeff Co kids first and so forth, it's trusted adult issues with policy there and with all of the different I mean, we've had in the last couple of years, something in the order of like thirty sex abuse scandals or things of
that nature. The most the one that's caught the most attention, of course, was the former chief of Schools, David Wise, who took his own life after New Year's after being investigated as an investigation was underway for child pornography and so forth.
But you have these deep concerns.
And it's really that, in part, a culture that jeffco has had for many years, since even before Tracy Dorelyn is superintendent, seems to have just gotten worse, especially with some of these policies that they've been instituting and approaches.
Well, I think you know, you as you noted, we had some challenges before Tracy right that you know, took us back to Jason and right exactly, thank you for clarification, and so in many ways I think we have to talk about the culture within jeff Co. And you know how how things have been reported or not reported, right, some things were just kind of ignored, or people removed, people went to a different school, or they removed someplace else, or they left and they went to another school district.
I think because there is light being shined on this issue, I think there's more items coming to light. And I know that when Tracy came in, there's a couple instances where it was kind of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is the case. We need to put in the mandatory I'm not responder was the mandatory porter, Thank you very much. We need to put those trainings
in place. But that means you have to train leaders at your high schools, middle schools, elementary schools, principals, counselors, and you have to keep training them over And what does it mean to be a mandatory reporter? What you know that person down the hall, they just they're just nice to kids. Well, let's think about that, are they?
I mean? I don't. I think teachers, of course have the best intentions, but there are some as my brother in law, who was an attorney general back in Rhode Island has said, you know, where children are, there too shall be people that are potentially wanted to pray on them. And so I think we have to be very conscious of that, and I think constantly training and explaining to people what it actually is and making people understand that
some relationship ships are not appropriate. You don't get to text your children after school, you don't get to text people NonStop. You don't get to give them gifts, you don't get to give them.
Well, and that's that's the problem of this trusted adult mindset that as even the legislature trying to push things along those lines. But you have these policies, these cultural customs and different activities and things that you're doing that go beyond just trying to institutionalize trust when trust needs to be earned.
Well, that has always been my point, and I think that that goes back to our parents and our guardians to talk with your children about who should we identify as a trusted adult. It's not just the teacher down the hall who I just met in September and that person as a trusted adult. No, that comes to the parents to sit down and say these what do these are the trusted adults? We think about what do you think about son? Daughter? You know? Who do you who
would you want to identify? That's the conversation that should really be happening well.
And then and there's also the natural like I had with teachers, where you develop that Okay, I trust you because you've shown it, You've demonstrated it to me, and that takes time and a lot of efforts. Susan Miller, our guest, former member of the Jeffco School Board. We literally have about a minute left. Time flies when you're having fun. But I want to talk real, real briefly. I wrote a column the other day and the Denver Gazette, where,
of course I'm choice weekly columnists. Teachers' unions reap what they've sown. I think in jeff Go and in Denver, so many of these problems at the feet of the teachers unions that are trying to pawn off responsibility or to scapegoat people. At a moment when there's a lot of consternation from the public about what's happening in school districts.
How do you look at this? I think that you know you you look to where the money goes, right, I mean, follow the money, follow the money, Follow the money, and when you have people that have received substantial amounts of money from organizations, you can certainly see where there might be some conflict of interest. And so I think we need to be very cognizant of where dollars come from when people are running for office and pay attention. And I think that that's the roosters or whatever chickens
have roos, well, whatever that analogy is. But I think, you know, we have to be cognizant of that.
And as I lay out in my column, it's like three hundred eighty three hundred and eighty thousand dollars that have been given to just the union backed board members between jeff Co and Denver, and that follow the money is absolutely essential and ask the question.
Who are they beholden to?
Susan Miller thank you so much for checking out here for this conversation in studio.
Really appreciate it. It is a pleasure. Thanks so much, Jimmy.
Thank you once again. Former Jeffco School board member, Susan Miller