Captivating Art of Rubik's Cubes With Daniel Maze #199

They're guys. They do magic. They are the magic guys.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 199. My goodness, that signifies almost four years worth of podcast episodes. This is crazy. My friends, to my left, we have Nick Kay. We're talking Rubik's Cube today, people. Oh, we are indeed. We are indeed.

When did you start learning rubik's cubes nick like how long ago i probably started doing it kind of mid my career so i'll probably say like five years into it when i came across cube effects and the stuff that carl heinz was doing yeah i spoke to him at length like about it a lot over chicken and waffles like when i was in vegas and his ideas were brilliant but they were hard you know they were hard i remember seeing him lecture and i was like no one's doing this surely apart

from him because this is crazy right and yeah and then of and then of course stephen brundish came out and everyone's like okay we have to know this the way i was there like a pivotal moment that made you go okay i am going to start learning was it seeing him or did something else happen no i i i attempted it and i failed miserably at first but then i had a friend of mine called Val who builds on my props. He's an expert.

A cabinet builder and he used to build kitchens and so forth for like high-rise buildings and so forth and then he went from doing that into illusions and he taught me how to solve my first cube and and how to sort of work on stuff and how to sort of simplify it and that kind of that's kind of where i caught the bug at first and then got into car hind so yeah but i i think the brundage he had a way of simplifying that but you know this is sort of things that are up for discussion i think

with our guest today 100 and and just the the short story for me was i was against learning cube stuff i was like i've spent two goddamn damn long learning cards and coins and whatever and then i did an 80s themed party and on every cocktail table was a rubik's cube and every table was like ah can you solve this and i was like damn it i can't solve it.

I was like because if i had have learned i could have done miracles that But anyway, and so that mixed with seeing Stephen Brungish do it, I was like, okay. Mixed with, oh no, I did learn it pre-COVID. So yeah, it was just those two occurrences. I was like, okay, I should learn.

Anyway, we've got an amazing guest coming on today and we've been foreshadowing it with our Rubik's Cube talk. Also, thank you to everyone who's joined us live to see this conversation. Nick, who we got in the chat today? Well, the guys in the chat, it's good to see our local friends again.

Thomas Conger, good to see your friends. scotty link gary davis he's ready now he says we also have eleanor hunter we're gonna make fun about that later harvey seth rod thank you all for being here to see our guest now our guest hails all the way from the uk on a totally different time zone thankfully he's like wide awake and entirely alert and excited to be part of this chat we first stumbled upon this amazing talent through social media um which josh brought it to my

attention showing this wonderful work that he does and we were just like we gotta get this guy in the pod so please join us in welcoming the highly anticipated mr daniel mays. Music.

Hello hello daniel mays hello hello hello let me let me figure out how to take your wonderful face off the screen boom there we go there he is look at that ladies and gentlemen let's give him a round of applause there he is thank you so much for having me thanks for being here buddy what time is it on your side of the planet uh we have just passed midnight so we are officially it's officially tomorrow wow,

It is always a trip for us in Australia. Every time we do a podcast, Doug, who is not here today because he's getting ready to be Santa, obviously, next week. Busy day ahead of him next week. But in the US, it's always the day before. So it's always a little trippy. Just so you know, Dan, it's going to be raining tomorrow because it's raining today for us in the future.

Thanks for letting me know. That was stupid. how i how is the how is the christmas gig season for you in the uk before we jump that like let's just quickly why don't you tell everyone who you are and what you do for folks who yeah sorry for the first time so i'm a uk-based magician i'm mainly based around manchester liverpool area so kind of the north of the uk for those of you that that don't know and i do weddings corporate gigs but I'm mostly known for the work I do with the Rubik's Cube and

I am a resident magician at the Oracle Bar in Liverpool which is a super cool special kind of magic bar there's nowhere like it I've never ever come across anywhere like it and I'm I'm so delighted to be able to work there sort of from time to time generally sort of once a week or so and I get to work with a team of magicians and we all work together on various different things and I'm sure we'll talk about that in a bit but but i do a lot of magic with the rubik's cube cards and

you know mentalism all of all of the stuff but i'm fairly new to.

The professional side of magic and i'm just so keen on getting stuck in basically so now you say that you're very new to this realm which i find like really really cool so ultimately you're a very young handsome 22 year old uk magician and only just recently gone kind of full-time yes in the last six months i've been full-time and it's going well so far that's wonderful you can see the like the the parody enthusiasm still in his eyes there is how you know

he's only just become the journey of full-time how long will that enthusiasm last josh i want to give it i would say after two years you're like all right i don't No, I still think you've got it in your eyes as well. I think so. That's the caffeine. Perfect time to mention that we have our Christmas-themed Magic Guys mug at the moment, which a lot of our fellow Magic Guys have already at home. I've been seeing some pictures come from that. And that's a perfect-sized brew cup there.

So thank you for that segue, Dan. But no, no, you're right. I absolutely, both Nick and I still have the fire, 100%. That's why we're still doing it. And that's why we do a podcast that makes no money, but gets us so...

Fired up chatting to great people like yourself the trick when you're doing it long term is to always be challenging yourself to up your game and like do stuff that like pushes you you have to always be like challenging yourself or doing difficult stuff or risky stuff or stuff that keeps yeah making you evolve because if you if you just go oh yep that's my six tricks i'll just forever do that's when you start to really lose interest in going to autopilot and not look forward to gigs and

stuff so for sure um that's mainly why i do stack work because it's so hard and i have to really be in the moment to like pull it off yeah yeah same same with cube stuff you know you do one wrong permutation and you look like an idiot there's like such a fine line between looking like an idiot and looking like god you know i think it's so true you've got to do something that that you get a kick out of as well as the audience because if if

you're doing something that you enjoy then the likelihood is they're going to love it too and right now sorry yeah absolutely right right now there are events happening you know every 10 minutes and so the question i was foreshadowing at the start is how is the christmas season in the uk what's your schedule like how are.

Figuring everything out jumping from gig to gig if that is what you're doing what's it like yeah well it's pretty good i think next year will be even busier this year is it's pretty pretty packed out i've got maybe another week and a half or so of gigs lined up which should be all all different as they all are and i'm uh i'm booked on christmas day as well now which is which is a new one i didn't expect that at all but you know it's going to be exciting to be actually on christmas doing that,

but I think I'm going to then hair it down the motorway and try and find my family afterwards. This is basically your first season, your first four seasons as a magician. You're going through it. This is really cool because it's not very often that our audience get to meet someone like yourself. It's sort of gone into that. You know what I mean? So going into what is effectively going to be your busiest period that you're experiencing for the first time.

It's only going to get busier, obviously, as your popularity grows, as your skills grow and so forth. So a question that I would like to present, as anyone else listening to this, we're just establishing that you've gone from, well, just to preface this as well, you were doing architecture prior to this? Yes, yes. That's on pause. I might go back to it. But I think there's something to be said about trying to follow your dreams while you're young.

And I don't know how the next year is going to pan out. I'm hoping it's going to be great. But I've deferred the place at university. So if need be, I can go back. But if you ask me now, I don't think I will. Yeah, it's funny because I have this vision. Like, I'm an architect. I'm like, what do you do? Like, I build stuff. And then you get in playing cards. You're trying to, like, build a house like this. And then you're sort of like, hang on a second.

Yeah, you're like, here I am building houses with cards like an idiot when I could be doing magic. Well, look, you can build your character off that, you know, like there's already that effect built on that where you build up the house and then you take away the edge and that shouldn't be out of balance and, you know, all that fun stuff.

But yeah, this is such an exciting time for you. I mean, I can tell if you're six months in and you're as busy as I'm seeing you are online and you have a residency, like you're building all the pillars to really set yourself up well, which is great.

And you have the right attitude. You don't seem cocky. Like I'm the greatest magician. You seem like you're trying to have fun with your audience, from what I see anyway. How, with Cube Magic, Cube Magic is not easy to do in terms of entertaining an audience. Because, you know, a cube is meant to be just as a puzzle for one person to do themselves. So what was your kind of discovery into making it entertaining and then deciding to sort of make that your brand?

So, I mean, like a lot of magicians, I saw Stephen Brundage on Print's Got Talent. And it was amazing. And, you know, I remember seeing that as a kid thinking, this is just outstanding. And I've always done the Rubik's Cube before I did Magic. So for me, being able to, yeah, yeah, I've always been a cuber, to use that awful term. So a question about that. So, like, tell me the timeline. I was this old when I got into Cubes, and then I was this old when I got into Magic,

and now I'm 22. So fill us in on that.

So you saw Stephen Brundage when you were three, right?

I saw i saw his act on youtube i do not know when i didn't see it live but i was probably about sort of 10 12 when i was first solving cubes but i wasn't obsessed with them at that point i just i enjoyed you know the puzzle as everybody does and it was it was something with my dad that i could kind of you know relate to and he taught me and so now whenever i do it you know there's that kind of connection but i do think inspired the magic quite a lot when

i saw steven doing all of these different things with it and and then I kind of began doing it more and more and creating my own stuff with it pretty early on because when you enter magic you see this enormous page of endless material everyone's already done something that you know if you're if you're going to cards then the number of books and different it's endless and that's brilliant and I love all of that but I think for me being able to do magic with the Rubik's Cube was a way of

kind of sticking my stamp on the world sooner in a way whilst I absorb all this other stuff. It's probably the only branch of magic that I feel confident to talk about because I have not studied and I haven't had the time to study as all of the other stuff there is. And I guess for me, it was a way of bringing my own person into magic, but also...

Also you know doing something that i that i really enjoyed and there was there's i think there's so much you can do with it and it bothers me that people have this stigma about rubik's cube magic this is specifically for the magicians that all you're doing with it is is putting it into a combination and that's it and i'm you both do rubik's cube magic as i've i've done my research. And as you as you know it's all about doing something different with with it which which which makes it exciting.

And I think for people that say that there's only one or two things you can do with a prop in magic, it's, it's magic is endless. You can do anything. So, so it's, it's really, it's something different, I guess, in, in, in what I see in magic at the moment. And it allows me to still feel like I'm creating stuff, but at the same time studying so much because there is so much to learn elsewhere.

So as far as the, the disciplines in magic go, like you would have cube magic, which would probably be you probably say a comfortable decade under your belt as far as tinkering with the cube but as far as the other disciplines like cards and coins that's a relatively new aspect oh yeah well i've done performance i think my background is definitely in in acting and theater but i've always you know messed with cards but i think i've only been properly doing it for you know one or two years there

you go wow and do you find any parodies or common ground between like the disciplines seeing that like if we're going to sort of put them on a scale like number one would be cubes do you see any sort of parodies between between the two how do you mean do you mean difficulties or kind of any common ground any sort of thing that you can go like you know what i wonder if i could apply this principle oh absolutely oh so many things so many things

i think you know what i mean like so for example a false shuffle isn't too dissimilar from a, you know, false mix or a false... A Rubik's false mix. Absolutely. Yeah. I definitely, definitely think any genre of magic that I end up studying, I link to cubes innately. I do it. I've got some new stuff at the moment with kind of putting cards into cubes, which is quite a fun idea. And, you know, if, I mean, I haven't explored coin magic at all,

but I'm sure there could be so many different things. You know, I'd love to do something with mirrors and cubes. I think that could play really nicely. I mean, sky's the limit, basically. And I think if you have something that you can start from, it allows you to build off that rather than coming up magic with a completely blank canvas, which I think can feel quite overwhelming. Yeah. And you've learned a lot from Kev G, right? Who we've had on this podcast before.

Oh, I love Kev. He's brilliant. His work is just fantastic. And that's how we kind of connected, right? Because I performed one of his effects he put out with the letters on the cube, which I used to spell the host that was interviewing me and to change the cube that way. But I haven't seen that, you know, I thought that was really original.

Thank you. Well, I found that effect, I think was really well thought out, but I found from trying to perform it to audiences, it, they didn't find it as interesting as I found it. Like, look, you, we predicted something and I've, now it says it on the cube, but when you make it their name, now it seems a bit more personable and interesting because everyone loves their own name.

And so it becomes a bit more fun. But a question I have for you is the thing that people I've, i think well something i was worried about in the beginning was with cube magic you should know how to solve a cube if you're going to do cube magic is the first thing i think especially in close-up because i would agree what happens when people are going wow that stuff's too amazing that can't be a real cube can i mix it up what's your how what's your next step when someone says

that to you in a performance when someone asks to mix up the cube i say absolutely go for it it's you've got to be able to say yes and in fact i would say in every in most of my rubik's cube routines that i do it has to involve them mixing it up in some way because that is what you do with this item and if they're not doing that then you know it's not as special it's not as meaningful.

And also i think they have to examine it because because it is a little bit different to a pack of cards you know it's just like when you hand a pack of cards out to someone to shuffle or to to check out even if you're not innately saying examine this pack of cards and check it's you know normal even if you're not saying that that is what you're doing and there's a real purpose to that i think you really want them to hold on to the cube and even

at the end of my you know wedding sets or anything that's a bit more special i will leave the cube with them because it it ticks that box off right and it's then special i couldn't recommend that any higher as well like i think i pay for henry harris's like if he ever has kids i i swear i feel like i paid for their college because i'm always ordering dozens of cubes because at the end of my show i give it away because i think like you just said you have to otherwise they assume

it must be a trick cube in some way but you give it to them now the audience knows holy crap this is actually happening and something interesting you i think we talked about this you you don't use special cubes i'll say like you mainly use a regular cube.

Yes i mean i i have been looking into the gimmicks a bit more recently because they are so exciting there's so many different things you could do with them but i was so keen on developing you know two or three strong routines with normal rubik's cubes to almost get that baseline understanding and i'm the same with other branches of magic so cards i try not to use any gimmicks with that just yet i'm sure in a few years time when i need to you know reignite the fire i.

Will you know do that but but yeah i think i think if you can do if you do magic with something that isn't. At all you know doctored and it is a normal item it's more effective so so much yeah so what i'm curious about is like so the folks that might not be too familiar with ruby's cubes because it is as far as magic goes. It's a relatively new realm you know what i mean migraine's been. Around a long time you know it dates all the way back to the 1800s.

And so forth but a ruby's cube is quite unique and what i'm curious about is like what is a list and before we throw to some questions in the chat now guys if you do have questions do pop them in the chat it is a live show so please stop we'll throw all the questions at daniel in a moment but before we do i want to ask like with coins you got coins across you've got three fly you've got you know muscle passes and so forth like gravity coin if you will there's all

these different types of effects cards have triumph memorized deck etc what's the sort of list that you have that with with regards to effects that you've created oh my gosh so many so many yeah let's hear it i so first of all what i do want to say is i feel like there was there is a list of different ways of solving it that all are really the same trick someone's you know someone picks up a rubik's cube and super fast does a solve and it's back to normal right that is

that is great but if you're the one doing it it's it doesn't feel right unless it's the last thing that you do and you leave it on because it just feel like the final thing that you should do with the cube is something i've always said so i think just the solves that you can do all of the list of that you know i know that sam huang does a lot of different things with his new project and they're brilliant but i would never do more than one of those in a routine if that makes sense so i'd kind

of put them into a you know it's a bit like. Which pass do you use it with cards or which you know i think yeah you can do 20 controls but it's the same trick. And you do the one that fits the environment the best at that moment. Right. But effectively, like, you've got Solves, just like you have... Exactly. And likewise, you've got Matches, which is another huge branch. There's so many different ways that you can match two Rubik's Cubes.

If you can do it without gimmicks, I think that's even better. And there are hundreds of ways to do it with other, you know, extra ones, but that is an amazing effect that is always going to go down and treat it. I would then say the solution is probably my favorite Rubik's cube trick out there. It's just so good. Anyone that's doing Rubik's cube magic that isn't using the solution needs to go and find it because Michael Murray is a genius.

And this, the wording that you use to, I mean, I find it just outstanding. The difference between when you solve a cube, like super fast to when you're getting somebody else to solve a cube. I mean, that they are totally different levels. Can you explain it for the listeners what the solution actually is? Yeah, of course. Like what the audience sees. Yes. So the audience sees you handing the spectator a mixed up Rubik's cube and they are instructed to turn it behind their back.

And the way I do it anyway, I get somebody else, maybe they're, you know, whoever they've come to the show with or whoever they're with to say stop. And at that point, the spectator is asked to stop turning.

And then with a bit of buildup, maybe it's a countdown. maybe it's you know some other way they bring the cube out and it is solved behind their back and they have actually done it themselves and it's a normal rubik's cube there's nothing there's no it's it's just a different way of presenting this trick but for me it stands on a plinth far higher than you solving a cube because not only do you get the hit of everybody seeing the

cube solve which is amazing as it is but then you get the second moment where everyone then gets to watch that person going wow I've just solved a cube and and I've seen you know you've you've got some really nice you know twists on this Josh I've seen the way that you've you know because it's all about the wording and it's all about the way that you present this trick, And I think there are various techniques that you can use to make it really

fooling and also make sure that it doesn't go wrong. Because sometimes it does, as people know, that do the solution. Sometimes they'll bring it out and it is still mixed up. And that's OK. You know, there are ways to move around that. But that doesn't normally happen to me anymore because I've just done it so many times and there are different language uses that you can use.

And I think it really shouldn't scare you off a magic trick if it might go wrong at one point, because there's normally a way around it.

I think the most important thing as well as the customer experience as well like you bring somebody up on stage and celebrate them as the hero celebrate them as as being able to absolutely there's nothing more the way i go into it because i use that to close out my routine, and i say like if you ever try to like normally get someone i've been interacting with in the show they've made some choices or whatever it might be and i

say have you ever solved one of these before and you're like never i can't have you go your whole life without ever solving a cube do you wanna and they go yeah i'd love to learn i go yeah bring him up on stage and then they get to walk away being like you know when somebody asks them can you solve these they can say i've solved it once and that's like a nice feeling for them like that customer experience is is ideal it's it's brilliant and to

be honest my favorite moment is if you get them and and they have it like one move away because yeah that that sometimes happens and that is just so sweet because it feels like they they really are and then they actually finish it and it's this it's just a lovely bit of dialogue that they have where you don't have to do anything you're hands-free and therefore, would you force that outcome where they have to do one more move.

No because sometimes it does actually come out like this by accident and yeah if i give you know if if i was to force this outcome there is a risk that it might come like this and then then you're a bit stuck because for someone that has never held a cube before that's actually very hard for them to work out right and so this is blowing my mind so you actually if it is one move away you get them to finish the one move oh that's the ideal situation yeah holy crap because i've always

taken it and done the one move for them but the fact that like that makes so much sense why wouldn't you get them to do the last move yeah if they just say you just say finish it finish it do it complete it because the way i do it right is i i have two cubes and then i explain that you know if i was to try something behind my back there's no way it would like you'd be able to do it in in a thousand years i then give it to them behind their back and then i take the cube and with a single hand

i get them to like i'm facing the audience and they're facing me as in like sorry and my back's towards the audience, but they're looking at me and I go, take a deep breath and I solve it with one hand behind my back and then I say, stop. And then I look back at my audience and I say, is it done? And they go, yeah. And I'm like, on the count of three, raise the cube above your head. And when they raise the cubes above their head and they're a perfect match and they're both solved, that's great.

But what I'm saying is like, you can stop and you'd be like, we should be one move away, bring it above your head. Then they can both have one move away. I can go next to him, give it a turn, and you've just solved your first cube. I wonder if that's a stronger effect. You're going to try it. Yeah. Do you think I have to give it a try?

Give it a try and let's find out. Cause I, yeah, it definitely feels like it makes it more convincing, but then here's the thing, anyone who, cause Daniel and I've been chatting about this a little bit and he made me aware of something that I didn't even know was possible with this routine. And that is, and you'll have to message Daniel to find out where to find the work on this. But we, for those who know the solution, know what's going on.

But Daniel explained to me, there is a version of this now where you can actually like behind They're even more fooled because behind their back, they're actually twisting the cube behind their back, right? Like they are twisting it. And then when they bring it out, it's still solved and they're still mind blown. Like without giving away any methodology here, like what's been your experience doing that?

Does it fry this spectator more or is it just like a magician thing that's cool to be able to do?

I think i think it's one of those one of those things where you it you want to do it when you really need to fool someone because that is it's one of those tricks that does it i think yes the method is is almost better in that respect because they are they are literally turning the cube and it comes out solved and it's like wow but i think there are a few caveats with the presentation, that you have to get them to do before they start mixing.

And I think if you're, if there's any way that you can avoid that, that like, you know, that's better. So from my experience, the Michael Mario version is still my favorite because it is so simple and it's so brilliant and you can do it in any way you want. I'm sure as all three of us do it, I'm sure we all do it in completely different ways and a different presentation.

And that's what I think makes a good magic trick, because it's almost like a tool for you to then be able to, you know, do in any way you like. Yeah. So, yes, it is more fooling this other one. And I love it because it's very magician-y, but I don't think it's perhaps the most flexible presentation. You know, you kind of got to do it that one way if you're going to do it. But Michael Murray's version is a way that you can really just go nuts.

Yeah and i'm hoping to use that principle in in more of my shows i'd love to do it where they bring out a mixed up cube behind their back still which i know it's this isn't a new idea this is something a lot of people do but they this could then be a force mix or it could be anything and you can you know then build it up and i was thinking i want to use a so i've got a rubik's cube wall now which is very exciting in my world possibly embarrassingly so

but this is a a wall of rubik's cubes that you can do all kinds of things with but what makes my wall special is.

Again it's non-gimit it's not there's no tricks in it you can it is literally just a wall of rubik's cubes there is no it's not a you know you can buy rubik's walls online and they can have pictures on and stuff and that's great but i get more of a kick out of it i guess if the if the wall is entirely examinable and you can literally hand those cubes out afterwards and there's nothing to see and it's a see-through wall there's no anything and I

think being able to do tricks where the pixels all create a name or they all create a pattern that relates to that person that is that is more amazing than having the same picture every show to me and so the idea that you can. You can have the solution mixing up Rubik's Cubes and then putting those Rubik's Cubes into the wall to create the name from a collection of people. I mean, that sounds great.

And I'm yet to do this, but I'd love to do the solution on mass and have like five people all mixing cubes, all putting them into the wall. And then at the end, you turn the wall around and it says somebody's name that is important in the show. I think, you know, the size is the limit.

Yeah, brilliant idea. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Before we go down diving into crazy methods and exposing things we probably shouldn't be to the audience. Let's throw the questions from our audience. Our first one comes from Tim Askin, Them Questions. And he just wants to know, what magicians have influenced you? So we've already mentioned a few cubers. I should mention Colin Klaus, along with KevG, as the creators of the Refractor Project.

They do a big un-gimmickless cube project which is super fun it makes patterns on the cube they do lots of things with doing just one side so one color and I think this is a huge resource for anyone that wants to learn cube magic properly because it has just so many different volumes that you can go into and I think they've got six or seven volumes out now and you can choose which ones you want and they'll tell you which kind of you know which bits

you get in in each one and they've got videos and great tutorials and they'll teach you to solve a cube as well for free i think so they have been a great inspiration in terms of doing gimmickless cube magic or you know magic with a completely normal rubik's cube i've always been a huge jen brown fan as i'm sure we all are i think his shows are just outstanding i can't wait to see his next one i'm sure i'll see it more than once but i think his presentation and the

way that he'll take a pretty normal trick but create something so moving and special with it is just that's like the dream, right? I want to be able to.

Do that with with as much magic as i can i think he's his his unique way of doing something is is, just so interesting to watch and i will say as well derek del gardio in and of itself always makes me cry it's just you can't you can't not feel it and that's what magic is all about i would also say there are a host of magicians that work at the oracle that i've learned so much from and And I can mention a few. There's an episode, Terry and Ben Francis is amazing.

They do all kinds of things, but it's all very meaningful. And a lot of the mentalism that they do is very, it connects to the audience directly. And I think that's so important. To name a few magicians that I've been inspired by. I hope that answers your question. It's great that people are proof, right? Like when you've got your own voice to lean on.

Like you know and then that you know to keep it just as sentimental the next question is, what's your most embarrassing five performance moment this seems like it might be coming from someone that knows this story is this a friend of yours right this is a friend of mine i don't think he knows this story but it is a friend of mine nonetheless thank you for that rod so i would say for me the one that comes to mind the most clearly i was doing a rubik's cube match routine where it's all

about the memories of the two spectators and you know i i do this at the oracle often and i i bring these these normally to a couple and we know who the we can see in the oracle who the tables and and and who is kind of sitting there so if there's a couple then they often will say, you go to this table, Dan, because you could do your couple routine. So very confidently, I sit down and I do the memories and we're talking about, you know, do you remember the first time you met each other?

And oh, yes, I do. And he turns the cube. And it's all about turning the cube each step of the way between the two people is the kind of narrative. And so they both reach a point where they've both been mixing the cubes. And at the end, they match. And it's almost like you were. It's a meaningful way to bring a matching Ruby suit together. And that's how it normally goes down. With this particular couple, they were sort of having me on in that it was a first date. It was a blind date.

And I don't think either of them had been in the Oracle for very long. So when I asked them, do you remember the first time that you met each other? And they were like, yes, yes, we do. We moved on. And it was, do you remember the first time you were on a date together?

And at this point I was assuming that they were together And had been together for a long time Until they matched And as it turns out They had just had a conversation to say That they weren't going to be talking anymore That was it They were just going to be friends.

And I just had to say Oh fair enough Love to meet you both, We're actually getting divorced Thanks for having us We've had a lovely time yeah yeah yeah yeah the cubes are the only thing that'll match with us yeah all right well well on the other side of an entirely embarrassing moment we have a question from Eleanor Hunter who is asking what is your favorite memory performing magic so I think that would probably be recently

I did my first Rubik's Cube magic show mid-November and it was just so special It was just so rewarding to pile all these ideas in together and be able to perform it. I did it to my family at first, and it was very nice to get the feedback from people that wanted the best for me. I definitely think if you're a young magician going to a show or an old magician, but if you're new to magic, going into...

You know doing shows it's so important to do your first few shows i think to people that you know care about you because it's a different environment to close-up magic i would always say close-up magic to get to get in involved you want to be doing it to as many different people that you don't know but i think when you're doing a show and it's a piece as a whole it might be 20 minutes half an hour an hour the show can really be examined a bit more critically i think without causing

any offense if that makes sense I think feedback is you're going to get you're going to get better feedback from your relatives in the in if you're doing a show rather than close-up because you risk with close-up people saying you know you're brilliant that was fantastic and that's it but if you do a show they've got lots to talk about lots to think about they've all experienced it together and you can even do a group census a group survey so for me being able

to perform that to my whole family and and friends it was just it was a special moment because it went well but also i felt that there was a lot to grow on and that was as a result of knowing these wonderful people yeah you need a safe space yeah that's where you can be.

Vulnerable and give it a go you know one of my favorite moments was at a helder grimirez lecture where a magician got up and said what happens you know because he's like you do this and the person chooses that goes yeah but like whenever i tried new magic for my girlfriend she'll purposely like do this and this and this and this and what do i do about that and held it just went get a new girlfriend and then moved on that was it so yeah so that's

one of the doubts obviously we're performing with people that know you i suppose it's like you can be a dick but then you're just a dick you know what i mean like, Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But I don't know. Maybe folks in the UK are a little more classy. You know, keep in mind, you kicked a bunch of your people out and they came to my country, just so you know. You know? Oh, boy. So tell us about the Oracle. What is the setup of this residency that you have? Is it a restaurant?

So it's a speakeasy bar in Liverpool, and it's a little bit secret.

You have to knock on the door and if they've got room they'll they'll let you in and it's kind of upstairs in the middle of Liverpool which is a just a bustling city it's a city of energy it just it's there's so much going on in terms of music and and the people are are just so friendly and exciting and I think I've never been to a city that has such a real character and so nestled in This brilliant city is a speakeasy bar where the whole bar is run by magicians.

The bartenders and magicians, everybody there is part of this community. And as a visitor, you are invited to sit down at a table. It's all candlelit. It's all very kind of Victorian setting. You can check it out on Instagram and the pictures are just phenomenal.

And you will see a few magicians as you drink a fantastic cocktail that is themed around magic in some way or or is you know specially handcrafted they've got their own list of cocktails and it's it's just a fantastic place to to work out and absorb ideas and talk to people and meet other magicians amongst you know loads of other interesting people that doesn't sound amazing that sounds so wonderful like it would be so great i imagine that

like it would just be the type of thing where like magicians would finish a gig and go i'll just have one knock off before heading home and then you know see all the all the lads and go yeah yeah yeah and it's it's always busy it's it's such a it's such an exciting place to work because you never know who you're going to get and sometimes you get people that have seen you before and that's always exciting because then you've got to show them something different and i

mean as a as a venue it's quite intimate quite small i've never ever seen a venue like it it's such an independent place and it's the quality of magic that that is performed there that i've seen you know i've been i've been a visitor myself i've.

You know i've there was a time where i wanted to be in oracle you know for more than a year before i was able to sort of say that you know kind of let in almost the quality is just outstanding some of the the mentalism that's performed there is just it's so meaningful it's all about creating you know magic for the spectator making them the star and it's not about showing off this is the kind of thing that they almost teach which i think was such an important lesson to learn as a you.

There are magicians watching this going, man, how do I take that next step to start doing magic full time or even to do magic professionally in any level?

For having just started that journey and starting it so well, was there a moment or a thing you started doing or something that helped you get from learning all this magic to now taking that step to doing it for a living?

I think going to blackpool magic convention for the first time was a huge step in the right direction because i was allowed then to meet loads of other people that did it and once i'd made these connections i could then see them again and that was it was just an overwhelming sense of wow there are real people in the world that do this niche career and actually if they're doing it you know why can't I and I think being able to then meet person after person from

Blackpool was just it was just the biggest step biggest kind of change in I guess before I went to Blackpool I was kind of I'm a part-time magician you know I'm gonna do architecture and then it was wow this is so brilliant there are so many people that do it I simply must you know become one of them yeah it's like the person who can run the the 100 meter dash in a certain amount of time and once one person did it then like five people did it the next year like that mindset of being

around other people that do it okay it is possible that's that's so that's so fascinating so yeah one tip it sounds like what you're saying is you got around the people that are doing the thing you want to do, essentially. So Tim is asking, is there a process to get your foot in the door? Is it like an invite to perform at this Oracle bar?

How did it kind of work for you to get in there? So I basically... I said, I came up to, I literally emailed them first and they invited me in and they were very encouraging, but it was kind of, they sort of said, you need to kind of work on your routines a bit more before you're, you know, at the level that we want. And that was, you know, a good few years ago.

And then as as time went on i then sort of i remember going in as the visitor and said listen i'd love to work here again and then as i did more magic and grew on social media i think that prompted more of a connection to be made and when they could see that the magic that i was doing was a good level i think that was when it allowed me to be able to have my first shift trial shift if you like i know what you mean i manage a little residences here on my side of

the planet and i remember hanging out one time and this guy comes over to me and he's like i think i'm ready to perform in your venues and i was just like i don't remember asking you yeah the first thing i thought, like i was like i didn't ask this guy who is he to assume that i like that just because he's in the scene that like he gets this privilege yeah and i was like i i was sort of taken back by then And I just went, okay, cool.

Let's see what you got, man. Okay. So, okay. So, okay. So, okay. And I was like, all right, brother, you need a little bit of work. Get it together. Get me five solid routines. Come back and see me in six months. I'd love to see that. And I've got guys that I've literally done that. They came to my home in this very home jammed. And I've gone, come back when you stop doing the nervous laughter. Every time you say something, do a card, do the card. And I'm like, okay, go work on that, come back.

And now these guys are employed regularly for that reason. But it's really cool that there is a place that allows people to elevate themselves and to be guided by the magicians. Because look at this, man, like six months ago, you weren't a full-time magician. It's because of these sorts of things in community that are so important.

It's nice that that exists because a lot of people spin out that they're not very supportive, that we that there's some sort of contention or that we're in competition with each other it's just not the case in our community i know in some there is and i just find that when it is nobody wins when we're in competition with each other yes yes you know i think you have to just build on each other's ideas and it's all about pushing each other yeah i think

that yeah meeting meeting lots of people that do magic was 100 the best thing i could have done yeah interesting question here from Ed, sorry, Josh, go ahead. No, I was going to say, the other thing I've noticed you've done well quickly as well is things like your branding, like your website.

When you go to your website, already looks very polished. It has a professional video playing in the background on that kind of parallax sliding kind of website look, which is like you've already, it seems like you've quickly put in the time to go, okay, I need to look professional to match, you know, what I want to kind of do.

Is that advice that other magicians gave you or you just naturally were like okay i need to make my stuff look good yeah well i think finding the magicians that that are doing the kind of business that you aim to do and then sort of copying the bits that you like in that kind of respect that's so important i think getting my first showreel was brilliant i was so excited about that because it actually had you know it was a professional

quality of magic that was happening at a wedding it was just so like i would i've been dreaming about that for so long i think once you have.

Those building blocks set up it's a springboard to be able to just get out there so definitely getting a showreel for the first time was great and yes as you know that is then all over the website yeah so just while we have the while we slowly draw to a close we'll sponsor a few more questions from our listeners here we have one from ed interesting one it says here is there a specific card move that you cannot master well enough

to perform absolutely there are far too many there are so many different things i would love to learn with with cards and, I think the one that I'm most keen on, on mastering now would be. It would probably be a really clean card spring. I know it's really basic, but I can only do it this far at the moment and I would not be confident. Yeah, no, I'm like, this is probably the best I can, I can maybe go that far. It's funny because it's just like, mine's this big.

It's not a dick measuring contest, buddy. No, but it's something that you want to be able to do if you're asked to do it, you know? And I've always tried to do it. I just haven't put the time aside to fully learn it. But that's the bed of my life in terms of cardistry or anything like that. I would love to learn that properly just because it's like a kind of rite of passage, it seems, perhaps. I mean, you've got the hair to do like the shin limb spring and have the hair

flowing at the same time. Oh, thank you. You know, you're halfway there. Question from David Russell. David Russell is asking, I'm curious the percentage of y'all's performance are scripted for tailored shows slash street performing. Do you have a script for most of the things you perform? Yes and no. I think it's important to jam and do magic that is original. And, you know, there's something really special about changing the script if something happens.

And if somebody does mix up a Rubik's Cube, it's so important to change it, change the script and actually make your script then about genuinely solving it, if that is what you need to do next, or taking a piece off and finding something inside. Or, you know, I think having a script is great and really important to have a couple of routines that you can just bash out if need be.

But i think being able to jazz and do your own thing is so important as well it's that balance i guess so i hope that answers your question david yeah and josh do you want to sort of share a thought on that one as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I find the most entertainment comes from the moments that people feel like are improvised, but done so well.

So I will have the structure to get us from the start of the routine to the end of the routine, but I'm constantly looking for those moments to adapt and change it. So whenever I do particularly a parlor show at the Theatre of Magic, Last week, we just did a bunch of shows and I'm just waiting for someone to say something so I can change the routine a little bit.

And like the purest example was that clip I just put out on Instagram yesterday is a moment where normally a woman is on stage holding the deck and she's going to name a card and I'm going to have her cut and find her own card. But she just names a non-card. She's like the ace of queens. No, the queen of aces. And I'm like, okay, this is the routine.

So now and you build off that i'm like that goes out the door but i had in mind i'm like great i'm like the ace of queens oh okay i'm gonna i am gonna cover my ears because i don't want to hear that and then we make jokes and then i'm like all right how about you just pick a random card and now that becomes the the way we're going to still get to the same ending i was going to end with anyway but um so that's how i approach it but definitely

you should have a script because otherwise you're in trouble if nothing happens for you to to latch on to yeah absolutely absolutely what about what about you nick i think that there is a roadmap that scripts create and they allow you to go off script because i think the worst thing is sort of going through situations where you sort of um and are or you don't know where you're going there is a comfort that an audience experiences knowing that you are in control that that

you know like some people you'll meet they'll be like i was so scared i was so worried that i screwed it up and it's like no like. If you can give them this comfort knowing that you're so competent that like you've got this or when people want to challenge you that you're so competent that like I tried to find him and I tried to screw it up and he got me anyway. Then all of a sudden you've earned their respect. You know what I mean?

Cause that's just sometimes the, like just the, the, the blue column mentality of some people where they used to like either have been an apprentice in the past where they had given a bit of a hard time. They got to earn their stripes in order to become one of them. They kind of project that same ethos onto you. So you've got to show you have the stripes and earn their respect, you know, and it's an egotistical thing. But if you understand the game, then you know how to play. And if you know how

to play, you know how to win. So that's what that's where I find the comfort in scripts. So, yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. Should we do a since we've all been doing tons of gigs lately?

Should we do gig stories, Nick? Yeah, absolutely. I reckon before this, I've got to ask. I've got one question for Nick that I'm, before this ends, I'm dying to know. Sorry. All right. Yeah. Okay. But I'm not being interviewed here. All right. You shut up. You call yourself a professional mind blower, right? Yeah. And I've had a name like rebrand recently. I was just really curious to know why that was the name that you settled on or like the title that you settled on.

The reason i loved it is because it didn't box me into being one particular type of thing it didn't mean that i was stuck as a card guy or i was stuck with some sort of identity as like i'm this guy it gave me permission to do whatever i want to do so long as it blows your mind so i can pick up a book pick up a straw grab a spoon a piece of chalk and some and some whatever right and I can blow your mind with whatever. So the beauty of that is that no matter what, like I do stuff with Lego, bro.

I do stuff with like pieces of fruit. I do stuff with like you name it. And that's what I loved about it. But to be like, I'm the illusionist, it sort of sets up a thing that like, oh, you're that guy that like has the pretty girls and the blah. And it's like, no, I'm bald and fat. That's not going to suit me. Or that you're the card smith or so forth. You know, I just, I didn't like the borders and boundaries that came along with any other title other than just being a professional mind blower.

And it's a really cool way to hand out your business card because people go, my mind's blown. And I guess what I do for a living says on my business card and they go professional mind blower. That's funny. I'm going to keep that, you know? And so that's the reason I chose that title. That answers my question. Thanks very much. You could have just been like the mind blower, but I think having the notion of professionals in front is important.

There was a thing from a Mike Tyson documentary where they said, you're a professional fighter now. Do you know what a professional means? And he was like, what? And he goes, professional fights no matter what.

And that's why ever since I became a professional, when I became a professional magician, my notion behind that, and this is, I've never really shared this before, but my notion is that like i'm like i'm a professional which means i perform no matter what and so if i've got a gig and my heart's broken i'm still performing if i've got a gig and i've had a death in the family i'm still performing like that's that's the sort of notion i have with regards to calling myself a professional

does that answer your question. Absolutely that's the only way i know how to break that tension that was great and and that And that perfectly explains why we had James Brown on two weeks ago, and he's the professional opportunist.

You know, that might mean pickpocketing, that might mean card skills, that might mean loading things under different parts of, you know, your watch or your shoulder, your body, or that could mean hypnosis, that could mean, yeah, a whole realm of things in that same vibe.

So gig stories is when we share well i'll we'll play the stinger and then we'll explain yeah i'll do it so gig stories is a portion of the show where we talk about magical moments either while performing or our day-to-day life starting with josh you want to do the first one yes okay you. I love doing a routine where you give someone a deck of cards and you tell them to cut the deck behind their back. So they're cutting it like this.

And then you're going to say, all right, take either the top or bottom one, put it in your pocket, right? That's the routine. Magicians know what's going on here. Now, prior to that, I had just done a warm-up trick with the audience and someone picked a card as like the nine of clubs and I've done some stuff with it. I shot it out of the deck, caught it off my mouth. Great. But I'm like, all right, let's put the magic in your hands.

Now, this guy, it was a Christmas party. And you always got to be wary that people are a little more cocky at Christmas parties because they're like in a celebrating mode. They're maybe drinking more than they would because like it's a celebration. So I give this guy the deck and I can see his hands really moving behind his back. Like it seems like he's cutting the deck, but he's doing it really quickly like this.

And i'm like okay here we go so anyway i'm like all right i'm gonna adapt to it fine brings the deck out and i'm looking at the deck so that i can now continue the routine knowing what card he's just put in his pocket without him even knowing so you know it's a mystery card plot, i look at the deck and i realize he hasn't cut the deck he's been like doing this kind of thing Like whatever you call this, the Hindu shuffle.

So he's basically really been shuffling this deck, interlacing their cards and stuff. However, something in my brain ticks. I just look at the deck hoping that I might realize what card's missing. And it occurs to me, oh, I didn't see that card that was first picked when I approached this group, the nine of clubs. I didn't see the nine of clubs when I just spread them.

So luckily I realized he has fooled himself now because he shuffled the deck properly like five times and he's single-handedly taken out the card that the first person used in this group and they don't know what's happened yet. So I'm like, so now that becomes the routine. So I identify, thank God, if he had taken any 51 other cards, I just couldn't have finished the routine like that. I would have had to just jump to a different kind of routine.

But thank God he messed up my trick, but then took out one to make this trick better. And I was like, you know what? You could have shuffled that deck as much as you wanted, taking a card from anywhere. But what was the card you wanted at the deck? You said it was your favorite. And he's like, nine of clubs. I'm like, what are the chances? And he takes it out. And I just walked away like a king, like, you know, you all bowed out to me.

This is like exactly what happens every time. So that was my geek story. Literally happened this Christmas season. And, you know, sometimes you just got to be thankful for those moments and being able to identify those moments. But that was fun. All right, Nick. That's an awesome, awesome time. Me? Thank you. Yeah. What's your geek story? I was going to say, would you like to share a geek story or do you need a moment for me to do a bit of a filler? No, no. I'd love to do. You go first.

I don't mind if you want to go first. It's all good. Let's go, Dan, let's hear it. I had a gig, this is a sort of similar story to you. I had one where. I was doing cards and someone had shuffled the pack and I'd been around a bunch of tables and it was the end of the gig. And somebody said there was a table that I hadn't gone to or at least a bunch of people I hadn't seen. And they called me over before I left and they said they'd had quite a bit to drink.

But they were very, you know, we want to see magic. We want to see magic. So I did a quick trick with the normal pocket cards. That was great. And then the second guy comes along and he was he was your classic heckler.

Right it was very raucous very no no we don't want that card we don't want that card we want the we want the seven of clubs and he made a real scene of this and of course i had the invisible deck with me and when he asked to see the seven it was obviously facing down in the pack and that was great but then the guy next to him said no no i would have said the nine of clubs and of course.

Magicians will know that if you keep spreading if if those two cards have got something together then it worked very nicely but both the nine and the seven were the only two turned over and everyone went went nuts and it was it was quite a special moment because i don't think they were expecting that at all but the fact that that both people really tried to sort of change the the script and then it worked out in the end was it was really nice and that's great jamming

with the invisible deck is i love it i love it you get the uh yeah hell yeah i love it i rate it all right nick so i've been very very silent about this i'm very private about my my personal life and so forth but i'm going to share this because it's it's been it's been a month but on the 3rd of december which was my birthday i took my mom in for a hip replacement and that's like and i've just had gigs every day since like that the same day i got to meet

james brown it was a wonderful day i had to perform that evening and so forth so surgery supposedly went well but mom there was some nerve damage uh we don't know if they severed a nerve or whatever else but effectively my mother is in hospital and has no legs at the moment and i've been very private about this it's no one's kind of business but if you are listening and you would kindly say a prayer so that she would heal and get better that would be amazing but

she's been in hospital since it's now the 17th of december and they're doing a bunch of nerve thingies we're.

Going to try and fix her up so she can start walking again we don't know how long it's going.

To take but at the moment she's got no leg okay so i've been visiting her quite regularly at the hospital and in one of my journeys while visiting mom she uh you know i broke up and i bring her some things some chocolates and stuff because i don't want chocolates i'm like that's for you to make friends with the nurses they'll take care of you and and you know you'll be like every time they come and bring you something thank you love help yourself

to a chalky you're so lovely and you know then they'll take care because you're here for a while. I should have been there for a couple of weeks now. And I'm going to. I'm hanging out with mom and this, this lovely lady comes over and she's like, what do you do for a living? And I go magician. She's like, I knew it was you. I've seen you perform. You did a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're amazing. Oh, it's so cool to see you again. And I was just like, Oh, thank you so much. This is my mom.

You know? And she's like, Oh, your son's amazing. Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's so cool.

And I'm like, Oh, thank you very much. You know? And then she went away, but it was just a really beautiful moment to like share with my mom that she kind of sees like the effect of what my magic or my love kind of for the game does to be able to help her out and so they've been taking really good care of her and we've got some good news i think it's going to be okay it's going to be like a six month thing and some nerve stretching and

whatever else like she's going to be okay but that's been like my life over the past um past whatever so thank you for your kind words and sending your positive thoughts and prayers for mom she's gonna love that and i'm gonna love you guys for it too thank you so much oh that's great man that's that's so cool and what a gift for her to see that effect from from her son that's awesome yeah look we we've run out of time which is which is

it happens always when we have a really interesting guest that time flies now i want to encourage you guys to scope out daniel's work his links are in the description of wherever you're watching or listening to this but in case they're just in their car listening to this daniel they can find you on Instagram. It's, is it Daniel underscore Mays underscore? Is that? That is the one. Yes. Daniel underscore M-A-Z-E underscore or your website, which is?

Danielmayes.co.uk. Yeah. Check it out because anyone up and coming, like this is the standard of website you should be having. If you want people that take you seriously and want to book you for gigs. So let's keep in touch with Daniel. I know I am going to be really interested to see how you evolve over time and what you end up doing, where you end up going.

But look, we're going to leave this episode in the way we end every episode, which is with the final word, which we give to our guest so we're going to give that to daniel right now.

Thank you so much for having me today i guess the biggest thing i want to leave everybody on is, it's so important in magic to remember that it's endless and if something feels impossible to do there is almost always a way to get around it so always something i've something i've tried to always try and do is talk to people and work out that way to make that thing happen whether it's presentation or method or anything at all there is

almost always a way and rubik's cubes are not just matches and solves thank you very much for having me thanks for listening it's time for us to disappear now disappear now but we'll see you again on the next episode of the magic guys this.