becoming a better performer with Eric Yuhasz #174

Six, five, four, three, two, one, zero. They're guys. They do magic. They are the magic guys. My name is Eric Uhaus, and I know what you're wondering. You're like, aren't you watching the magic guys? So where are they? I'm just a magic guy. Well, that is the trick tonight. That is the trick tonight. night.

In fact, I'm coming to you live from Orlando, Florida, and the guys have actually handed over the reins to me tonight to flip the switch and interview both of them for a project I'm working on, which we're going to dive into in just a little bit.

But first of all, let's go ahead and bring to the stage Josh Nobito. Nick K, give him a big round of applause. Thanks for coming on out here, fellow. There you are. Thank you. Hey, good to see you, Nick. How you doing, man? Good to see you, Josh. It's been a while. Eric, thank you so much for having us on our show. Oh, my pleasure.

Pleasure to be here. So Eric, we're very happy to be here. I understand that you're working on a project as to why you want us here. Should we hit that up front? I am. Yes. Let's dive right into the project of why I'm here and why you all kind of handed the reins over to me tonight.

So what I've been working on is a project that I'm lovingly calling, the practice playbook, the practice playbook, because what I wanted to do is create a resource for magicians to dive into and to work on themes and ideas that can actually make them practice smarter, not harder. Now, the cool thing is this is not just about technique. This is about the cerebral side of practice as well.

Up to this point in time, I've interviewed, I think about 18 different magicians, many of the names you all would have heard of. And that's when I reached out to you all. I said, Hey, I love your podcast. I love to come out and actually turn around and interview you all, because I know you all have a ton to share. So that's what brings me here to this stage and why I kind of get to sort of run the show tonight, if that makes sense.

Yeah, this is your show, man. So please, we're so happy to do this and, And when Eric first reached out, I was like, this seems fun and his stuff looks great. You know, the link to Eric's work is below, but Eric, take it away, my friend.

Absolutely. So what I love to start with, especially when we're doing one of these interviews, is I feel the moment you start thinking about practice. You actually alter what you think about practice. I know that's deep. We're starting off pretty deep, but I'd like to just jump right in. And remember with this, I'm talking about practice and rehearsal. So when you all think, and Nick, I'll start with you, when you're starting to think about practice or rehearsal, what comes to mind?

What kind of tips would you have in your arsenal to share with others?

Well, I want to talk about rehearsal first. Reason being that the most common fault I think that people tend to do with regards to rehearsal is that they don't rehearse in the attire they're going to wear. They don't rehearse in costume and they don't rehearse in the suits they're going to wear when they perform.

They'll typically just do stuff in their pajamas non-stop all the time and then when they actually perform there's a kind of disconnect when you're wearing your suit there's a different weight to what you wear and a lot of times people perform and they seem a little uncomfortable and that's because there is a bridge half the time they're unaware of and I think it's so important if you are going to rehearse in preparation for a performance

rehearse in what you're going to to wear for that performance. You agree, Josh? Yeah, I'm just thinking, uh, our friend Christopher Wayne, who would do the naked magicians. I wonder if he would rehearse naked at home when he's practicing his rope routine. You gotta know where to hide the cards. Exactly. Yeah, for certain. Now, that's that's an interesting point. One of the things I've run into with that is when I would when I practice, let's say basketball shorts.

And then when it came to real time, of course, in my right pocket, I always carry that's my clicker where I'm progressing through music, etc. And it would sit a little bit lower in the basketball shorts. And you just develop this mechanical reaction to hit it. But I think that's a really good point. Really good point. Now, Josh, what about you? What is one of the first things that comes to your mind, either with practice or rehearsal?

I'll say when I'll go for a different angle to how Nick took it, because that was fantastic. When I started to want to start doing keynote speaking, it's a different realm. And I know you're into it as well, Eric, speaking about different educational premises and maybe in business as well. But what I didn't know was it's not like magic where you can rehearse like the slides.

And then once you know the slides, like you're pretty good. You can kind of go with like whatever happens in that half an hour. Whereas speaking for an hour on stage, you really have to articulate and know like exactly what you're going to say for that whole hour. And I thought in the beginning you could just have like the premises that you want to talk about and then you just kind of go for it.

But what I learned pretty quickly from a mentor of mine was that you have to actually write out that hour and you can't just write it out. You have to actually, like you basically have to practice that entire hour as the hour so that you can keep the pace going the whole time. You're not like tied by the end of it. And you know, like the flow of it, you can basically be an autopilot so that you can be present in the room while you're delivering this thing.

So I think he said like for every minute that you have to speak, you should have practiced that minute like... An hour's worth of time. So eventually you should have 60 hours under your belt to have rehearsed for this one hour speech. So in terms of rehearsing, that was the best advice I had ever been given, like rehearse the entire thing as much as you can as instead of just like that one segment. Cause like that will change.

Like for example, if you, if you're using a gimmick in that, in your show, well, and it sits in your pocket, like, well, that gimmick might alter a lot by the time it's been in your pocket for 25 minutes, as opposed to just grabbing it off the table and using it. And a perfect example is there was this gimmick, which you could use for a haunted deck where your hand's off and it works fantastically. But if it's been in your pocket for a long time, the stuff that it's using heats up a lot.

And so the gimmick actually activates so differently to the way I'd been rehearsing it. So that was like a lesson. So unless you, like, you have to rehearse it a few times in its entirety to know exactly like what can come up and go wrong and things like that.

To write on your coattails there, I think one of the other things to think about when in terms of practicing in its entirety is, and I've done it, I've made the mistake where I practice a chunk and I practice another chunk and the materials management is not in place because you don't really think about it But at that moment, if you're just practicing 20 minutes of your set or whatever the case may be, but by practicing it all the way through, you then are forced to realize,

hey, I need to put this exactly here, this there.

That way you begin to manage much, much better. So let me ask the two of you, what is the longest show that you all performed? If I could jump into that one, we did a 85-hour magic show. Oh, did you practice that in its entirety? No. I did it 60 times. No. We did an 85-hour magic show, part of a fundraiser, and partly to break a Guinness World Record. I did a mixture of emceeing and performing. I was there for a total of 20 hours. So I didn't perform for 20 hours.

As well basically did the entire time so that's a very long show but typically as on a regular basis if i may i perform in three hour stints at the residencies that i have around town but this is this that's roving though right that's right correct same set or i was about to say yeah yeah so in in a roving capacity and the benefits of that in a roving capacity is when you're doing a stage show, it's kind of like the reason why so much preparation needs to go into a stage

show is because you can't instantly repeat it. You can't give it a try and go, you know what?

I'll do it better next time. That next time might be a week later, sometimes even a month later, because those opportunities to be on stage less frequent compared to when you're doing a roving performance in which you will spend five to 10 minutes with the group and then go into the next group and the next group and the next group so a lot of people put the stresses of performing on the roving capacity you know like saying that it is an equal stress applied and it's not

until like at my students and i kind of say to them like roving is so much more forgiving here's where you should begin because know that you can go to do a performance you can make a little screw up not ruin thanksgiving by any means but do a little mistake where like your double wasn't as clean as it should have been for example but fear not because you can immediately go to the next group Boop.

And make an improvement. And so you've got these opportunities of repetition within an hour bracket that your client might book you for this rowing performance.

And you can do that routine several times. And so there's a lesser stress involved. And not to say that there is a lesser preparation required, but it's just worth making mention that if you are going to be on stage, the preparation needs to far exceed what you would do because the opportunity to be on stage for any performer performer or to perform that regularly a few and far between versus being in a roving situation.

So you perfectly opened up for the next question, but I don't want to leave this discussion on rehearsals just yet, especially when it comes to stage.

So what are you all's thoughts? So you're saying it takes a long time, which I agree. I'm not going to lie. The last show I did was last week and it's a show I've done quite a bit, but I probably did 10 hours of rehearsal just for that, for that presentation that was a 65 minute presentation. So what does it look like for you all. You've got a big show coming up. Let's, let's, let's say it's an hour show.

What does that rehearsal look like for you all? Let's say that starting the month beforehand, Joshua, I haven't heard from you for a minute. So what's on your mind? Yeah. A longer show that I would be a part of is, is one I do in theaters called showman, which it's an ensemble show. So there's five of us.

And the kind of rehearsal that goes into that is that we will have to all meet up and do a what do you what do you call it when it's a you're just running through the show but you're not actually performing it a dress rehearsal or no no you're not listening dry rehearsal dry rehearsal might be the right word you're basically we're basically talking through it so we know.

What happens in between the end and start of each person's next set we have the tech person there doing all the sound cues and we're running through everything to make sure that every sound cue is queued up to hit at each person's part of their routine. So it's like, it's a bit of a beast. But then if I just go to my own shows, so if I'm doing a corporate show, it's 30 minutes. If I'm performing at the Theater of Magic, which is a parlor show we have, that's 45 minutes.

But the longest one is my keynote presentation. I'll come back to again, which is an hour long. And the way I started doing that is after I'd banged it out a bunch of times in its entirety, I would literally hire out a dance studio so that I could go in there for like four hours and just practice it four times.

And then when it was coming up close to actually, uh, when I thought I had a pretty good, I, and I, this is from getting advice from someone. This is if you really want to take what you do seriously. I invited 10 people that I know to come and watch it. So I had them all sit down. I bought them all lunch. I sat them down. I'm like. Watch this and then give me actual proper feedback afterwards that can't, you cannot hurt my feelings.

I just need to get better. Like, you know, the more brutal you are, the more it will actually help me. So I just created this safe space, bought them lunch. They came along. I did this whole hour for them at a hundred percent energy. And then we had like a Q and A afterwards where they just gave me all this feedback and, you know, suggestions and things they noticed, you know, things like that.

And so, yeah, that's how I approach like a longer set that you really don't want to fly a dance studio. It's cheaper than hiring out like a theater. And I guess you can, every dance studio, when you hire out a dance room, it's one entire wall is a mirror. So you can see how your body looks when you're posturing and picking up props and things like that. Bit of an ego boost because you're watching yourself for an hour, you know, that kind of thing. You're like, that guy's really good looking.

Look at him. Look at him move it. Nick checks out his arms the entire time. Well, having a mirror is awesome because I remember I used to live in an old shop. It used to be like a hairdressing salon that was then converted to a residency. But it was great because I still had all the mirrors from the hairdressing salon. So I used to be able to rehearse in that one space. Really awesome. And it's good to reflect upon that.

And obviously, looking at yourself is important. and another thing you can do just to expedite the learning process or the polishing process is that it's good to capture video footage of yourself when you are performing bits and especially when you're working on stuff you know i've seen consummate professionals guys who who i'm not even going to make mention but i've seen them do entire runs of shows where they're getting tens of thousands

of dollars and they're using that to work on new stuff and it's like I don't know. I kind of feel like when you want to work on new stuff, that there should be other avenues for you to do that. And if someone is paying you for a product, you should just give them an entirely awesome, polished product. Hmm. I think that's a really good point. And I agree. It's you, you don't, you're not practicing. Although everyone, most magicians are like, oh, the best way to learn is get out there and perform.

Well, yes, but not when you're, it's a $5,000 gig. That's not when you're, you're practicing. That's when you like got the rehearsals and you've, you've really polished it off.

Well here's a little advice that i got from from teller because i asked him how difficult is it for you to work on new stuff because they like the name by the way you're supposed to kick your hair back here's a little advice that i got from teller no we just kicked my hair back and so so my friend teller and i were having a conversation and i asked him big with regards to how do they break in new materials oh we're working on new stuff we're working on new

stuff and i said how do you do that when people are paying top dollar to see you you know how do you sort of work in new stuff And he explained that, you know, they do corporates and things on the side of their theater show, et cetera. But the way they go about dropping new stuff in is they use a method called hammocking, like hammocking. And the idea is, is that you have a solid pole, which is like a solid routine, you know, is going to slay.

And then you hammock in between that, something you're working on, and then away you go. So it's a hammock. So it's a bit of a, it could be a possible slump, but something that you can hang in there to try out is ultimately what it's called. He goes, I hammock routines is what he said. And that could be a benefit to you guys out there knowing that. So I thought I'd share it. Yeah, no, that's actually a really, really great tip.

Then let's keep going down that train of thought there, integrating new material.

How do you know when to do it? How do you know when it's good enough? How do you know, hey, you know what? This really sucks. I need to cut that out. And that's a lot of questions. But Josh, let me send it back to you and see if you can process that. Ooh, it's hard to add in new stuff. I mean, in roving, if it's a roving, a close-up magic piece, I'll wait until the end of the night and that one guy comes back that's loved everything you've done, and I'll be like.

Do you want to see something I'm working on? And I'll do it for that guy. This is in the very, very beginning. Like I'm competent at doing the effect at this point and I'll try it out on him. Or I'll literally go, and I still do this often, especially because I love to film content. But importantly to practice, I'll go out and do street magic, just roving, go up to people, David Blaine style, try stuff and bold stuff. And if it doesn't work, like they don't know who I am. Like they haven't paid

to have me there. So there's no risk. So that's a fun place. But if it's stage magic, it's a little trickier because like, where do you go to get free stage time, you know, kind of thing. So there's a new Rubik's cube act that I'm working on and I tried it out by slowly implementing bits of it at the weekly show that we put on. And I was, I would just get my magicians to watch it. I'm like, I'm just going to do it for one of the shows, watch it, tell me what you think.

And I would video it and I would send that footage to people I trust and get them to review it. And I'll just very quickly have as many people watch it. So I know like what to start changing and that's sort of how I approach it. Interesting. Nick, what about you? You know, it's, it's interesting. I was thinking about this just the other night because I'm someone who likes to be very organic in the way they approach things. So I tend to be a bit of an opportunist when I'm doing my roving act,

which is the major majority of my work. So, for example, if I see somebody wearing a watch, that means there is an opportunity for me to have a signed card put under there. And there's things that I do of that nature. And with regards to adding new material, sometimes you see new material or you think of new material. And what it kind of does is it sort of breeds itself into a flow of things. So, for example, I finished up last night and the person at the venue said,

I saw you doing a thing with a balloon. What's the deal with that? And I said, oh, what I do is I take a balloon. I borrow someone's phone. I put their phone in the balloon. Then I pop the balloon, and I give them back their phone. Because the balloon is broken, I put it into a little ball, and I restore it, and then I blow it up again, tie it off, and then I get somebody to hold it. I then do a card trick in which the card is signed.

Take that signed card and put that signed card in the balloon. Pop the balloon, and then that signed card is now in the balloon. She just looked at me and went, she dropped an F-bomb. And I was like, I'm that guy. Now, that was something that just as I was studying magic, learning magic, thinking of magic, it all just sort of lent itself through, you know? And it's effectively, you know, Danny Garcia and was it Marcus Eddie who did

the pressure project? Yeah. So I did the pressure project and then there was rip air, you know, and then basically I just sort of tied them all together. So it's just interesting how sometimes you see a routine and just realize that, oh, it goes one into the other. And I guess because I used to play in a band and it always comes back to that is that it is. Yeah, buddy. When you're when you're making a set list, some songs flow into the other.

You know you have like your high energy rock and set and then you drop down to well for a love song then get back into it but it just depends where you put things you know the order of things kind of matter and so sometimes that is also important and and if you ever think about that situation.

It's good to do this if you're thinking about it as a whole as a show now that i'm sort of like taking it to a different place but it's effectively opening up the question which is in what order do you put stuff then? So what you can do is you can basically get a piece of paper and you draw a straight line and then you can write down all your routines, engage what sort of emotions those routines can invoke.

So if you are someone who does highly emotive pieces, that's going to be very important you identify that. But if you're just a fun comedy magician type, it probably won't be as important. But regardless, take the opportunity and if they're all comedy. If they're all fun, that's great. You know? So some of the emotions might be joy. Some might be hate because you're doing sucker routines. So you've got to be weary of that.

Some routines could just be like heartfelt pieces about a lost love or something like that. You know, you can, that could have a sad emotive to that. Now, ironically, whatever those are, take a moment and plot them on this straight line and straight line is like neutral.

And at the very top is where happy. And then the bottom of that line is like a total wreck and basically plot where you put those routines and then try gauge the arc in which your show can take because it gives you an opportunity to identify. How you're going to end your show in the end, how it's going to open and how it's going to end. And it's okay to have a little chill before the big finish.

You know what I mean? So me, I just want it to be up all the time, but there is a place for things to take a breath and to be a bit more chill. So that's one of the best things you can do is it's regards to putting the show together as a whole. I'm laughing because before the show tonight, I had about 20 minutes before we came on air. I was like, I'm going to rewatch some of how I I Met Your Mother.

And I know you all are a little bit familiar with that. There was an episode where it was New Year's Eve and Barney's like, everything should be a high all the time. And it just made me think of that when you had mentioned that. By the way, I guess this is a great time to, if you joined late, my name's Eric Hughhouse and you're wondering why am I kind of spearheading the show?

Well, it's because the guys have kind of handed over the reins to me to allow me to interview them for a book project that I'm working on that I'm going to distribute to the magic world and magic community coming up soon. And I guess I probably should tell you some of the other magicians who I've interviewed through the process. Many of the names you will know. If you don't know, you probably can look up on Penn and Telefulis and see some of these guys.

Well, Michael Amar, I think most people have heard of him. Franz Harari, Nick LaCapo, if you're in the States and you'll get an email from him all the time from Penguin, Ryan Schlutz, Eric Tate, Dan Harlan, Andy Gladwin, Josh Jay, Carissa Hendricks. So there's been a ton of contributors to this project. And what it really is, it's been a labor of love for me to figure out how can we make practice better?

How can we elevate the game of magic by sharing all these little tips, which this podcast is fantastic about. They don't even realize how often they're throwing out all these little pro tips. And this is a fantastic resource, but oftentimes it's hard to kind of research back and get into that. So really that is what the book is all about. So if you just joined us again, my name is Eric Hughhouse.

I'm coming to you live from Orlando, Florida, and I'm excited to be able to kind of bring out this information from both Josh and Nick to share with you all. So, so here is the big question. Yes, Nick, you had to want something.

Well, there's a question here from Jimmy who is actually about to perform his very first paid gig after being a 20 years hobbyist magician. And I think it would be a great opportunity for us to take a case study, if you will. What do you think? Yes, absolutely. So Jimmy, he's preparing to do his first gig. It says here, what are your mental prep, Well, what are your mental prep? Anything you tell yourself before performing or any other prep thoughts?

That's interesting. Can I share with you something that Michael Amar shared with me, if that's okay? He was talking about years ago, he would always do these Christmas gatherings. And at the Christmas gathering, there would be Santa Claus. And they both would be kind of behind the scenes and behind the curtain waiting to come out and present to the crowd. And he would always look at Santa Claus and say, why is this guy not nervous? Like, why is and he finally asked one of these Santa Clauses.

Oh, I'm sorry, but I just broke the news that Santa Claus is real. But he'd ask one of the Santa Clauses and he'd say, why are you not nervous? And he's like, I'm giving them a gift. I'm giving them gifts. How and why would I ever be nervous giving them gifts? And Michael took that to heart and he shared it with me. And I think it's a fantastic way of viewing it.

You my friend whoever is a thomas who's going on you are going out and giving them a gift giving them a gift of magic and you're going to be so surprised on how few people have ever seen magic live in a person so you're just giving them a great gift that would be my two cents yeah that's brilliant amazing can i say something off the back of that when i was a kid i think i was 14 and this is before i was even into magic and i was a groomsman in my cousin's

wedding and And I asked him, like, are you okay? Are you nervous? And he said, nervous. Why would I be nervous? I want this to happen. I only get nervous about things that I don't want to happen. And that stuck with me forever.

And the way I think about it is, would I be nervous about being on stage? It's like, no, I want to be on stage. Like, I want to be on there. I want to show people what I do. And I want to share my gift, just like you said, just like Michael Ma said, like it's a gift and you just want to share it. So there's no nerves in that sense, you know, that you want to get on stage. And I guess just be nervous about what you don't want to happen.

Like, I don't know how many of you guys go see a show, sit in the audience and just wish you were up there instead of sitting in the audience. I'm one of those guys. Josh, what about you? You got any thoughts in terms of the question was asked and mental prep before stepping into his first gig?

Egg yeah no i just i just shoot myself before every show and then i'm fine i just want to see if i can make nick uh spill his drink there almost yeah yeah almost got him yeah man like obviously i mean you know there's rehearsal like you know the more rehearsal you've done the less nervous you'll be about something going wrong but there is one thing i do like it's very nerdy but But if I'm just not in the zone for an event,

there's not, there's not an issue about being nervous, but if I'm not amped up for an event. What I'll do is, because when I'm driving, I'll listen to a podcast. That's when I consume most of my info. It's when I'm driving, as you mentioned, Eric, when you get a chance to listen to our show even, which is just the fact that we know people are driving out there listening to episodes, especially when people are listening to past episodes, like past Nick, Josh, and Doug.

It blows my mind. Sorry, I digress. So I'll listen to a podcast. But if I'm not feeling amped up yet, exactly 10 minutes before I get to the event, I'll switch to some high beats per minute music that I love and I'll crank that out. And that will change my frequency to be more amped up for this event. If I've done a whole week of just lots of work and stuff, that particularly.

And then the other thing which anyone can do, and I know it sounds fluff and la-di-da, but words of affirmation to yourself in your car when no one can hear you, when you're like on your way to the event really fucking works like i'll this you say three things to yourself and you repeat it and it'll normally be something like it's a great day i'm gonna do the best magic i've ever fucking done they're gonna love my show and i'll just repeat that over and over probably 20 times and by the

end of it i'm like let's go this is gonna be effing amazing that honestly helps so if you're ever nervous really do give that a try do it before you get to the event. Otherwise you're going to seem like a real weirdo if you're backstage and the client's here and you say, they're going to love my magic. Make sure you do it before that.

And then the last thing before Nick jumps in is, yeah, once you're so rehearsed that you're like, you know, your stuff and you're just confident that like something we might talk about later is like just being able to be in the moment and go with whatever happens.

But I have a pretty funny gig story that happened to me on the, over the weekend. Maybe we'll touch on that later, but But I was so rehearsed that the worst thing that could happen in my show happened, and I. It didn't stop the show for even a second. Uh, we just kept going, but, um, that's yeah, more or less I'll just, it's not about being nervous. It's just about, I got to actually get myself to that nervous point. Almost like I got to, I have to amp myself up because I just love what I do.

But if I'm nervous, it's because probably I just haven't been in that environment before. Like I haven't rehearsed enough yet.

And even Nick, you mentioned like, you know, you're a beast at your show, but you even said when you came to Brisbane for the theater of magic there was a moment where you actually felt a little bit of nerves but not because of your show it's just because you had you hadn't it was your first time in that particular environment and you slayed it but that's when it can occur is when you're in a you're pushed into a new.

Zone which um just means you're improving like you should always be nervous yeah and partly and partly because i was surrounded by like a lot of my my friends and heroes you know what i mean like uh you carry carries a hero of mine and you know so is murphy jabba and everyone else that It was this, you know, Mr. Piper, all of our friends, you know, like, and that's the beauty. Like a lot of the times the guys who are your heroes end up becoming your friends in this industry.

And it's, it's really awesome. Like, it's hard to believe that like you people on the horn will get, you give you a call and go, Hey, like I'm in town, you know, like Dave Williamson. Hey man, I'm touring you at your home. Yeah. Come around. Like it's, it's one of those things. So even though you have done a million shows. The nerves can creep up and you can get the little, uh, the butterflies and the butterflies. You just need to take a moment to identify what the butterflies are.

And it's effectively the, the adrenaline and, and, and the, and the excitement that you are experiencing. And if you don't burn that adrenaline, it can turn into butterflies.

So it is important to burn that off. Ozzy Osbourne used to just sit down and just push like on his torso, just like just tense real hard like on his whole core like he's taking a shit and just push and that just helps burn off he also had a lot of hemorrhoids from that too so you want to be careful yeah breathing helps too like fighting like a boxer like like fighting the air does help i'll get that under control for sure i want to jump onto that nerves the discussion

of nerves excitement and nervousness if you ever watch the olympics this is a great example you watch the olympics and they get done with their event, and like, oh my goodness, you just won the gold medal. Were you nervous? No, I was excited. Okay. And then you ask the next one, were you nervous? No, I was excited. No, I was excited. And what I love about that idea is each one of those athletes have reframed that emotional state.

Because what do you feel when you're nervous? You get sweaty palms, you get butterflies in the stomach, you get some adrenaline. What do you feel when you're excited? You get sweaty palms, you get butterflies in the stomach, you get adrenaline. And it's just It's all just the reframing of what you claim you are. And it goes back to the affirmation. You're affirming that you're excited. You're not affirming you're nervous because if you're pacing around and saying,

I'm nervous, I'm nervous, I'm nervous. Guess what? You're going to be freaking nervous. But if you're like, I'm excited, I'm ready for this fight because I prep for it. That's a whole different end of the ballgame. So you just flip in that framework and the way that phrase works to change out your entire outcome. Yeah. And I think the difference is when you're, when you're nervous, you get a hit of, I forget the chemical's name, but you know, you've got dopamine and serotonin.

There's the bad one that causes stress, which I'm forgetting. Cortisone. Cortisone. So that hits you when you're that nervous, like super nervous. And that's what can give you an upset stomach and stuff. But I think the excited one is all of the good stuff minus that. Yeah. I think. Yeah. And that's our science for today. Thank you all for joining us. But also it's like, what are the, one of the most important things in truth.

Okay. So in seriousness, the important thing also is to people don't nerves on one thing. Okay. But take a moment to identify what the physical ramifications are going to be on your person. Okay. You might get short of breath. You might get this and that you might talk fast, be aware of the possible things that could show your nervousness. Okay. And take Take a moment to identify them so that you can control them. Because what you know is wrong, you can fix.

Okay. If you know you have a flat tire on your car as you're going along, you know, you got to pull over and fix it. But if you're just driving along, your car feels like crap, but you don't know what's going on with it. You're just going to keep driving on busted wheels. Okay. It's important to know what's going wrong or whether it's an equity just so you can deal with it because nothing is impossible.

Possible like there's nothing like the awful that can happen in a show the worst thing is someone dies that is the worst thing that can happen at a gig somebody loses their life okay and the probability of that is pretty slim it's happened to me but it is pretty slim erroneous now the point is that don't forget to breathe and one of the first things and that's this is from avna sorry did you just make up a word did you just make up a word nick slim erroneous because if you did that's awesome.

It's erroneous, ladies and gentlemen. Erroneous. That is. It's erroneous. It's erroneous. It's erroneous. The point is that like, understand what your breath is. Don't forget the breath because one thing that you might want to do with your nerves is when you are nervous, you hold your breath in. Because you're holding your breath in, you seem tense. So, you know, as you're trying to talk to them, like pick a card and you're just holding it up here in your, you know, take a moment and breathe.

Very important to be conscious of your breath. How many times do you like over.

Yeah yeah just too much oxygen like yeah not not a i can't i'm forgetting all my words right now because i'm just enjoying myself but in jimmy you just put in a comment about okay i talk fast when nervous as well as excited yes and what they're saying right now is take that moment don't rush into it take that one deep breath and it will really make it all the difference yeah i'll figure out your pace when you want to talk slow it by half and then

slow it by half again and then you'll find the right pace. But the way I found the perfect pacing was I was doing a show and there was an Auslan person doing the sign language. And I was like, cool. So rather than this person trying to watch my show, kept like looking at the Auslan person like this. So I did all my stuff to the Auslan person as my assistant. Like I didn't, routines aren't typically made like that, but I thought let them see me and her doing the thing.

And I just spoke at such a pace that she could comfortably do all of the sign language she needed to. And that was where I learned this is the most perfect pace to speak on stage.

We can go into this a bit further by saying that depending on what environments you have, if it's a very echoey environment, depending on a lot of places I perform in that just have glass everywhere, in these sort of convention-like places, you want to talk even slower in those situations where there is glass because it refracts and bounces. And basically your words sort of do this a little bit. They sort of mesh up. So take a moment.

Remember to breathe. you know when i first started doing magic i would i would this is how i would get on stage right so i would literally like curtains open i would pop my head out and i would let out a breath like oh thank goodness there's people here and then i walk out i literally walk out and go good you guys made it i was worried you weren't going to be here that was like the first thing that i did i was like is there people here thank goodness is an audience because

there's nothing worse than going that like to a stage where there's no audience. So that's the way I treat it. And I did that for the first, well, I don't know, the many, many years early in my career to walk out and just be like, oh, thank goodness. You know, nowadays I'm different. Like when I performed that at the Theater of Magic recently, I'm pacing, I'm jogging back and forth, literally kind of running. And that's because I'm G'd up.

And there was also a lot of magic prior. So people are already pumped up.

If you're in a situation where the audience is already pumped up you got to think about it like this you're jumping onto a moving train like the act is on on its on its way once those curtains are open you're on board do you just grab onto it and let it rip your arm off or do you take a running you run alongside and then jump on and be part of the show so it's a nice way to think about it as well so nerves are a thing you've identified the types of nerves you can experience but the takeaway is

pacing in your speech breathe so that you relax holding in breath holds tension letting it out makes you relaxed if you're relaxed audience is relaxed if you're having fun audience is having fun and just lead it lead it through your subtext i people think that like oh oh, you know, do you just try to fool people? Do you just try this and that? I go like, I just want to make people smile. That's it. I just want to make people smile.

And that leads through my subtext, which makes everyone have a good time. That's all I want them to do. They don't feel threatened. They don't feel like I'm trying to make them look foolish. And I go, no, you can stay here. I just want you to be comfortable. You come, good. And away you go. So just lead that through your subtext. I think that's the perfect opening because really, what are you nervous about? Failing, messing up. So I want to throw that question to the two of you.

Do you have a time that you recall that you really messed up? But then what do you do in preparation before any kind of mess up, middle of the mess up, and after the mess up? What does that look like for you all? I've only ever messed up when I've neglected myself to help others. When I've been on a bill where I've been trying to help all the magicians around me, and then have neglected my own setup and my own sort of ideas or like my own preparation for my show.

So I've always found that neglecting myself is only ever resulted in that, you know, in a screw up. And so it was a lesson that I found early in my career where everybody wanted help and I was more than happy to help, but then not everyone was there to help me. And during that time, that's where I made a lot of mistakes because I was too busy helping other the people and neglecting my own progress. And that's the only time I've really truly ever made mistakes in that sense.

And when those mistakes happen, how did you respond to that? How did you manage that? Thankfully, when an audience doesn't know exactly what you're doing, you have the ability to just take a different path. It's the same way that when we drive home, that there could be a roadblock and we just got to take a detour. All I did was take a detour and we still got to a good destination. We still drove it home. We just went a different way.

So that's one of the things that is kind of important. And I don't know if that means that when you are routining things that you need to take a moment and identify where your routines can screw up. What if somebody doesn't say this? What if somebody doesn't do that? If it's so essential that they have to say the color green, you've got to find a way to make them say the color green, not pray that this mental force will

work and they will say that, you know? So, yeah, Multiple outcomes are important in that sense. And I kind of like that. I like things that can have multiple endings, different endings. You know, there adds a level of rewatchability, if that's a word that I just made up. See, we're making up words. I love it. You know? Yeah. I think it's kind of important. And that's why I like to add sort of a lot of impromptu things in my show.

Because the idea is it's basically the same show, but this one portion will be different every time. And so you want to know what every show was like, because that bit was so fun. I wonder what the next show is going to be like. I wonder what the previous show was like. So, yeah. So it sounds like you actually take that, lack of a better term, that failure or that mess up, and you're like, hey, you know what?

This can just make it a more unique show for the audience, which I think is a great perspective. Let me give you a more exact example. So as time goes on, we are having electronics take place of methods in what we do in magic. And if electronics die in any capacity or fail to work in any capacity, whether dead batteries or just Bluetooth not working, whatever it might be, if the method is 100% reliant on the technology, then you have no effect.

And I don't trust in electronics enough that I will rely on it entirely. You know, like the biggest leap of faith is something like a color match routine in which you're coloring in a person and you're wearing the same clothes or there's a prediction that matches sort of thing. If that does not work, there is no effect. That is it. It has to work. And so it's the type of thing that you need to take a moment and go, what if it doesn't?

And if the answer is there is no effect, you got to have this little moment and go like, do I take the risk? risk and pray for the reward? Or do I structure my routine in such a way that if it doesn't work, there's still an effect, but we didn't get to this major kicker at the end. So for example, I have a lottery prediction routine and there's a really big kicker at the end with the printed lottery prediction. But if it fails, there is still an awesome effect.

It just means that we don't get to make it to the top of the mountain and enjoy the view from the top of like, look how gorgeous this is still a good time. It's still a great ride, but we didn't get to the top of the mountain because if that thing did not work, it's, Good point. Good point. Josh, what about you? How do you process failure? How do you process messing up in a show? Man, where do I start? I'll keep mine short and snappy here.

I have a part of my show where I purposefully make it look like I stuffed up in my show. And it's really fun sitting in that feeling and knowing like you can fix it in the show later, but sitting in that feeling just to be like, oh, this is what it feels like. Like, and this is what they feel like when they think I messed up. So I do a very bold, like I've predicted this and it's wrong. And I go, and then I seemingly recover to still make it a fun routine.

And then the kicker is at the end of the show, I reveal, oh, it was right all along. But so, because really, as Nick was saying, people don't know where you're going. People only focus on something messing up if you draw attention to it and you look like you care about stuffing up.

So I and I try to make my show I specifically have a little card piece in my show which I try to make that re-watchability where they literally tell me how they want me to find their card and so I don't even know where we're driving this machine because I just I love that feeling of not quite knowing because I always bring it back to Ozzy Wynn's statement which is he has a main effect he's trying to get to but he says I don't have outs in my routine I just

have outcomes and I I love each one of them. And you have to feel like the audience has to believe that you love this outcome. Like if they feel like, oh, you got to the ending, but that doesn't feel like that's what you're going for, then you haven't sold it. But anyway, I digress. So failure. So I literally had this happen last week. Okay. In my stage shows, I produce a wine bottle, fun opener, done it for over 10 years, and.

And last week, big corporate events, I'm emceeing this event as well. So I'm hosting it. This is the first time in my whole ever career that I have smashed that bottle on the ground prematurely before I've even gotten to the routine. So imagine you walk out, you're going to start the night. And then this bottle just falls out of nowhere, smashes on the ground.

Like as an amateur you would just you know run away and quit being a magician like that's the worst thing that could happen for that routine but having performed so much now and going with i love listening to comedy podcasts because especially one called bad friends because the way they riff off each other is so good and i soak that up as much as i can and i try to use that in my everyday performing in real life, that if something happens, I just make fun of it or move on or whatever.

So the way I dealt with it was there was just a dance act on stage. I'm supposed to come out now and be like, give it up for these guys. And then I introduced myself, the events, and I do this routine, which ends with a bottle production. But what happens is the dance thing ends, I come out, I turn to the audience and then I just hear everywhere. And I looked down and because this event is at a theme park, so the ground is actually bitumen road, which is why it broke so easily.

So I turn around and just, and all that happened was I spent two seconds. I like it broke. I looked at it and went, and for my next trick, I need a volunteer.

And I went straight to like just the next thing didn't even stop for two seconds because i also knew that there's a camera operator live streaming me onto the screens and it's not seeing the ground it's just seeing me so people definitely noticed something weird happened but i just kept going and went to a different just went to the routine i was going to do after that and what happened was i finished that opening segment client comes up to

me oh this is off to a great start like that was awesome Thank you so much. You know, I'm going to go. Didn't that we'll see for the next segment. Like this is, we're so happy with how the event started. And it was only the photographer that like kind of whispered. He was like, what was it with that bottle thing? I was like, ah, you know, I was going to reveal it to the audience a little bit later, but you know, it, it, it had other plans and that was just what it was.

So yeah, to me, like that's the scariest thing of doing that routine is that falling out and breaking. And it happened and I literally couldn't care. I just told the stuff afterwards, like, Hey, I didn't mean to do that. I'm really sorry. They're like, I will clean it up and it's fine. So long as you don't frame it, like you don't put a neon sign around it being like, look at my mistake. Yeah. As long as you're not like, yeah, as long as you're not like,

Oh, sorry guys, we're just going to take five minutes. Cause that wasn't as long as you don't do that. Cause I knew there's no one near it. It's not going to be a danger. It was fine. So I just, again, yeah, just turn, smash. Oh, and for my next trick, blah, blah, blah. It didn't matter. And then, so the other thing I just want to point out that happened, because it's just, this was so bizarre. There's a classic, there's a great routine called the homing card. I learned it from Michael Vincent.

And the idea is you have a signed card and it keeps jumping to your pocket. Well, what I didn't realize is that when I was doing roving earlier that night, Someone signed a card. So someone signed a 10 of hearts and normally I give it away. But for some reason, I think they left partway through the routine and I showed the rest of the group and I kept that card.

And then when I had someone come on stage and I did this homing card routine, they happened to pick an eight of hearts and they signed it very similarly to the 10 of hearts person. So they sign it like very small and like at the top corner. So I did a miracle without even realizing where I accidentally swapped those cards throughout the routine and neither me or the half drunk guy on stage realized that that had happened.

So he saw a red spotted card with a signature and assumed that was his so partway through the routine i'm supposed to grab a decoy card and like miscall it to the audience and put it back in the deck and i accidentally grabbed hang on is that right so hang on no so i meant to grab his card out of out of my pocket but i have a decoy one in there and i accidentally grabbed the decoy one but it looked like his one because i somehow put the other signed card in my pocket so i pull out this card.

That's not his now. And I go, and that's how your card jumps out. He's like, whoa. And I go, look, I'll do it again in fast motion. Boom. And then he, I'm like, now you reach into my pocket and pull it out. And he's like, that's my card. And in my head, I'm like, no, this is the part where you say, no, you got it wrong. And then I reveal the whole decks of my pocket, but he's like, yeah, you got it. I'm like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah. And the audience applauds. And I'm like, hang on.

It's meant to be a diff. This is not possible. And And then, and then I do the actual ending, which is I reach in my pocket and pull out the whole deck and go, no, but your card is actually over here. And it looks like I just, I just teleported his card, like seemingly here somehow in my pocket without me touching it. And then he gives the card back to me and somehow now the whole deck's here and without touching it, his cards over. It was the weirdest scenario.

And because it was a camera projecting onto the screen, like the card looks so much the same. I'd basically done a duplicate signed card without even... It tripped me out is what I'm saying, but you go along with it and it's not really a failure, but it was just, I couldn't make sense of how the F I just made his signed card impossibly go to my pocket and he pulls it out. But hey, you can do it. Tim had a great comment. Recovery comes with experience.

Just remember, you know how the show is supposed to go, not your audience. And I like that a lot. I like that a lot. One of the things, cause I am a teacher by trade and I did actually teach magic class before, before COVID. And one of the things I would tell my students was celebrate the mistakes because now you just learned a way that it can go wrong and what not to do.

The last big, the last big mistake I had, I was on stage and the, all these gathered numbers were, they were supposed to call these gathered numbers. It was supposed to ring to my phone and all my phone would be the song that was selected. I tested this before the show began, but I was at a college. Any of you have who've ever worked at a college before, you know, there's a lot of areas where they purposely drop out any kind of coverage.

So in the middle of the show, they're calling my phone and I'm like, they don't know yet. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. And the participants are like, hey, it's not going through. We got no signal. I'm like, oh, I picked the wrong person, somebody else. And then I realized it was my phone with no signal. But the cool thing was the person who brought me on and hired me to do that, she had no idea anything went wrong. But I learned, I was like, oh, okay.

In case that happens again, change my voicemail to talk about, hey, tell Eric, the guy on stage, that this happened and this happened. I was like, oh, okay. Well, now I've got a new outcome that can potentially happen if by chance the cell phones don't work. So, Tim, again, you said happy mistake. I think that's the best way to kind of approach it. Yeah, and I think to your credit, Eric, it's about you saw a situation and you said, well, I won't make the same mistake again.

I won't make it twice, you know? And that's so essential because when there's people who I've said to me like, well, I don't know why this keeps happening, they're wrong. And it's like, if it keeps happening, you're doing something wrong, you know? You know, there was a Coins Across that I was doing.

And what i found was whenever i performed it for couples i always made the gentleman like after it was a three coin going from hand to hand and by the second routine the gentleman was always like that's amazing thank you so much thinking it was over and it's like is this not evident that there is three coins in the equation and i realized it's because that a lot of people i was meeting in my environment were on a first date and he was being intimidated

that his partner was being impressed by another man. And I was like, this must be it. So then I, and well, I thought of it as a possibility. So then what I did was I reframed it so that I can celebrate the gentleman. And now I don't have any issues with the routine, but I couldn't just in, in good faith. And it's a model. Mine is so minor. It's not even like a, a mistake. It's just purely a flow. That's not happening that I wanted to have.

And I just took a moment to say in the second phase, there is something that makes this guy think that it's over or he wants it to be over. So how do I combat that? And now I don't have any issues with it whatsoever. What I love about that is you took the magic, you took it away from you, you took it away from magic and you made it about them. And I think that's, that's what probably makes it play so much stronger, which is a really good, really good point.

It looks like we're running out of time here. So I do have a big question here for you. We might not be able to get it all covered, but what three tips of advice would you give your younger self to ensure you would be a better performer today? So this is a tough one. This is looking in the past. Hopefully there's not a lot of regret there, but what three tips of advice would you give your younger self that would ensure you would be a better performer today?

Okay. I'll go first and then Nick can use up the rest of the time. I think, I think I thought about this a little bit beforehand. I think number one is I would tell myself to start learning the classics of magic, not the hot thing that's out on Theory 11, because that is what I would spend my time on. And I had a lot of holes in my magic learning that I had to fill later on. I knew how to do this one sick coin move, but I didn't know how to vanish a coin.

I just knew how to do this cool production. So I would tell myself that. Learn the foundations of magic, not just the hottest thing that's out. I would tell myself to... I would, I would start, I would tell myself to learn about the yes ending in improv. I wouldn't tell myself to go and take improv classes because I think that would take time away from magic.

But I would just say in your routine and start agreeing and adding on to what people are saying, because that's what I think stands out a lot with my magic is when I'm roving is I'm flowing with what everyone's saying. It's not about, let me get from A to B in this one routine. You go with what, make it a conversation. So I would tell myself to learn about improv.

And the third thing is I would say to either find a mentor who's doing what I want to be doing, because I didn't do that for a very, very long time. I would get that done much, much sooner because they'll push you and know what you're doing wrong. And that would be my three things.

The middle one is interesting because what you're saying is you need to be enough present that you can actually respond, which I think when we've all started off doing magic, we were so focused on me, then the magic and the them comes later. But what Nick had brought up earlier, hey, he just took that and said, hey, let's make it about you. And I think, Josh, that second point, especially you were talking about to think about, hey, how can you be more present.

Nick, what about you? What are the three things for you? So I thought about the three things that in my years of doing magic that sort of created a pivot in the way I approach it or that I feel changed me the most. And so these were lessons I learned as I went along. And I just figured I would, if I could share them sooner with my younger self, here's what I would say.

I would say that I was at a point in my life where I was hyper obsessed with just constantly learning magic, reading magic, practicing magic, and everything. One of the best bits of advice I ever got was from my good friend, Anthony DeMasi, and he said that magic isn't everything. Just be good at life, and the magic will come.

And that was a really nice thing because when you just sort of learn about, if you just live and you go about your day and you look at what's happening around you, you will see opportunities where magic should be shining through. You'll see it at an anniversary. You'll see it at a birthday party. You'll see it at somebody's 50th, you know, wedding anniversary and go, I've got something magical to really celebrate this moment.

And so if you're just good at life, you'll find moments where the magic needs to exist. You know, someone who's having a hard day at the counter and you get your phone out and say like long shift. Yeah. Let me see if I can speed it up for you. Watch my phone, say a time bang. And then the time goes forward 17 minutes. And then they look at their phone and it's gone for, you know what I mean? Like you got this moment and this gift to make someone's day better.

So that's one of the things I would say that like, just be good at life and the magic will come to you in order to create it. The second bit is with regards to creating magic was, this was a bit of advice I got from Hal deGromirez after doing my very first show. I was only a magician for a year and a bit at the time. And he said to me, you have a good eye for strong magic, but you should be doing your own. And the example he did, he goes, you opened your show with Sam the bellhop.

You're you're good enough to do your own story deck. Why aren't you doing your own? You're doing Gregory Wilson's Coins Across. You're good enough to do your own Coins Across. Don't, like, do your own versions of stuff, you know?

It's sort of, I'm reminded of that, where Josh said, like, classics are classics for a reason. And I think that's so true. So look at a classic and make it your own, you know? My Way has been sung by so many people, Dean Martin, you name it. It, you know, ultimately, you know, Big Elvis did it. But all those songs are written by one guy called Paul Anka. So things exist for a reason, but like do it your own way, do it with your own style and make it yours to some degree.

Like, you know, so that's the second bit of advice I got. You're good enough to do your own style or your own material. And then with regards to creating magic, I think. I do it very simply where I just go, hey, wouldn't it be cool if fill the blank?

And if you think about magic in that way, if you start saying to yourself, like, I'm going to be good at life, I'm going to look for opportunities where magic should shine through, and I'm going to do stuff in a way that is quintessentially mine in my own style, as opposed to being what I've referred to many times as a cover band magician performing everyone else's material.

Material, not that there's anything wrong with that, but you can take their songs and make them your own and have your version of like, everyone's seen my invisible deck, which doesn't look anything like an invisible deck because I use totally different methods and I use an index and it's a single playing card, et cetera. But wouldn't it be cool if is now going to open the doors to sharing your magic in those moments in life where it needs to be seen.

Really great Great points. Really great points from both of you. And I love, again, you were focused on the people, but then you also touched on something that I think just to roll back to your younger self and say, hey, it's okay, because we all have to learn. We have to start somewhere. If you're learning to play the piano, you learn chopsticks, and you learn furlees, and then you learn some other things, and then you begin to create. So I think it's important.

We all need to learn the basics, as Josh mentioned. But then we also, as Nick, you mentioned, we need to be able to get past that because that really is what this book is all about. How can we raise that bar of practice and taking these ideas, sharing them with with the world and saying, OK, How can we make magic a better place? How can we make the art of magic a better place? Because I've even realized, and I realized with my wife, she's seen enough magic and she's seen some stuff on YouTube.

She sees stuff and she immediately realizes there's a lot of duplication within magic. And I think that's hurting. It hurts the community. Yes, there will be duplication, but if we can put our own spin on it, if we make it unique, then all of a sudden it doesn't feel the same.

It's completely different in the eyes of the layman and the spectator so you know a little interesting point is i remember on the magic the magicians forum i think it was on facebook oh you know something i would tell my younger self invent double cross. But um but the the problem with that effect and and the reason why i don't use it i have it on me but I don't use it is because every other guy uses it.

And I hear when someone says they saw a magician the other month or whatever, that's a lot of the time, the trick they say they remember seeing and it's amazing. And it, and it, you know, it's so good, but I remember seeing in the magician forum, a notable magician saying, Hey, can we create a, is there some way that we can create a reference point with celebrities and what tricks magicians have performed for that celebrity.

So like if you meet Beyonce at a private event, can you write down what this trick is? And the reason was because he went to do double cross and the person went, oh, is this that trick where the ex is going to end up on my hand and like, you know, blasted it. And then someone wrote in, another notable performer went in and said, you won't have had that problem if you do original material and it was like.

This funny moment where it's like, well, you know, we can't all do the same generic thing that we know will guarantee like a hit, but like, if we're all doing the same stuff, if we're all duplicating the same thing, that's going to be a problem. And it was, it was a good lesson, I think for the magic world. And let me, let me say off the back of that is the reason why I think that we should all start as cover bands.

You know, when I was in a band, I grew up playing nothing but Blink-182 and Offspring and all these other awesome bands. I had to learn how to play licks from Tony Iommi to you name it. The names are not important at this point, but it's when you start performing your own stuff that you get the notoriety in the scene and that your name will matter a bit more because there is a difference between saying, I want a magician and I want Nick K.

Because if you want Nick K, there is no substitute. You just have to get Nick k if you want dosh beta you got to get nosh the beta but if you want a magician there's many of us, but it's until you become the next tim askin or you know the passion daily whoever it might be like the it's it's about just getting your own songs out there in a sense but i think it's important too because it can be discouraging and like oh well you can't do any of the

popular checks no i think it just means taking it a step further and saying how can i frame this in a way, that will definitely be different than anybody else. Or for me is completely unique to me. For example, if I get handed a deck of cards, now I admit I am not a card magician. I can do card tricks, but I'm not really a card magician. But if I get handed a deck of cards. The first trick I'm going to do is just a sloppy shuffle. It's that basic of a card trick.

But the framework around the sloppy shuffle is about my sister making fun of me when I was a kid. I mean, I have detail in that that is unique to me. So they'll walk away remembering that my sister took a banana and squished it in my face. That type of thing to make it just unique enough that it's going to be different. It's going to be different than everything else. And I think that's the key

that you all were trying to make as well. I was like, yeah, yeah, we, you, you gotta be the cover band, but eventually start coming up with your own tunes. You know, you play the same chords, but maybe have some different lyrics. Exactly right. And that's the way I frame it. I play my, my, my moves, chord progression and my, my patter on my lyrics. And I just go out there and sing my songs again. That sounds exactly like what you did. Slop shuffle.

And you made it a personal story. Yeah. And the audience are your groupies.

Well man was there anything else you wanted to cover eric before we you all dove into so much great content and and i appreciate that uh for certain i didn't notice that someone did ask about the when would the book come out i i don't have a date yet because i need to finish i'm still in the process of writing it i've got 170 pages right now and the goal is to have two dozen, magicians two dozen i can probably speak two dozen magicians integrate integrated

into the book and I'm at, I think you all make numbers 18 to 19. So I'm there, I'm there. Tomorrow I'm interviewing Koshia Kimlott, which some of you might know. Now that's a card magician. We love that guy. Love that guy. Yeah. For certain. But no, that's everything for me. Thank you all so much for having faith in somebody you've never met, who's 14 hours behind you. Can you please tell us the future? You guys are already in Tuesday, and we're still on Monday over here in the States.

Well, Eric, can I just say that our chat is lit with everything that you've contributed today. We literally have folks asking us to go longer. So please make a promise to our listeners and to us that you will come back for visits, you know, seldom regularly, or at the very least when you've, you know, about to finish this book or finish this book, please say you'll come back and visit whenever you want.

Cause I haven't, I didn't even get a chance to share with you some of the great ideas that some of these magicians have shared, but yes, absolutely. I will come back anytime you want and be able to share some of the insight and that I've learned. Let's do something again, particularly when your book is due to come out, you know, that next week or something like that, or the very least let us know so we can pitch it to the audience and all that good stuff.

Eric, you can follow his work. On Instagram, we tagged him in the post about the episodes. You can find him there, connect with him socially, but his website to keep on top of when maybe the release is coming or if you want to book Eric for your company, you want to have him speak, you can find that in the link below. But we're going to do what we do with every guest, which is to leave Eric with the final word.

So, Eric, again, thank you for coming. This has flown by. We're going to leave Eric with the final word. You, my friend, are not the sum of your failures. No, no, no. You are the sum of what you have learned from your failures. Have a good night. Thanks for listening. It's time for us to disappear now. Disappear now. But we'll see you again on the next episode of the Magic Guys.