¶ Intro / Opening
Welcome to the loosen perspective. I'm your host, Rebecca Hastings. I've spent over a decade working with executives in the tech sector, and help successful companies build their leadership teams and scale. During my career, I've been lucky to have the privilege of learning from many exceptional leaders. In these conversations, you'll get perspectives from peers, be inspired, and learn what it takes to become one of the best.
This is your chance to listen to experts talking about the challenges, solutions, and the vital insights they've gained in their careers to date.
I found that people think when you say blockchain, as long as the provenance is there, what is your company doing? It's like, well, the provenance is not there. Blockchain means there's an audit trail right for that data that you capture. There's an audit trail or the trays up same thing that preeminence.
Today, I'm joined by chiller. chilla is the Chief Strategy Officer at BTP, which is the digital provenance company. She is also a global blockchain, Business Council ambassador, and a blocker who's spoken at numerous conferences on blockchain and its applications. So that actually created and curates the DLT landscape, which if you've not seen it, it's an open source MAC market segmentation initiative.
And it kind of like highlights and demonstrates the growing complexity and evolution of the blockchain ledger technology market. Chill initially trained as an economist, she had a successful career as an industry analyst prior to moving into the
¶ What does a Chief Strategy Officer do?
startup world. And on top of that, she's also a former elite athlete who competed in beach volleyball and Taekwondo. So, Kyla, tell me what what does the Chief Strategy Officer do?
Yeah, well, I guess, you know, the role of a chief strategy officer may depend on the company, obviously, but I can definitely tell you about what I do. So I work very closely with the CEO and, you know, to help steer the company in the right direction. I oversee, you know, messaging of the company branding and communication and things like that. I also investigate a lot
and assess the market. And that would include, you know, customer needs, our competitive landscape, you know, business and partnership opportunities. And, yeah, I also do a lot of thought leadership for the company, you know, around the technology itself, you know, application areas, you know, areas that people are confused about, and things like that. So I do that through, you know, publishing blog posts, I present events, I do webinars, I use
social media. And yeah, and I, you know, I also liaise with, with industry associations that we are part of, you know, including this open source foundations, and so on. So, I guess that's in a nutshell. But you know, at the end of the day, when you work for a small company, you end up doing a lot of things.
Yeah, that sounds like a really very drawl that must take you across pretty much everything apart from the
¶ Csilla’s journey into the blockchain world - from an industry analyst to a startup.
hands on technology, I imagine.
Yeah. Actually, yeah. That's, that's the short version of it. Yeah. But the short answer.
So tell me about your journey into the blockchain world because I know you didn't always work in the sector. I'm intrigued to find out how, how you got so deeply entwined in him?
Yeah. So So prior to joining my current company, I worked as a technology industry analyst. And I was actually doing that for a number of years, just a little over 10 years at our market research and advisory company. And, you know, I was, we were very much focused on emerging technologies. And I wasn't always the always covering blockchain. I started, you know, I was part of this digital transformation team. And then I had like, a lot of liberty to look at interesting
areas. And, you know, I found blockchain and I was like, I got really interested in it, and I started reading about it. And then I started to write about it. So they, you know, the company allowed me to, you know, publish reports, the technology and, and yeah, and that's, and you're new at some point, I was like, writing about it more and more, and it just makes sense to to cover that space, like formally, right, as an analyst, you know, among other areas, but basically, I guess that was the
beginning of it. And that was 2017.
So how did you then go from industry analyst to start up? That's quite a big change. Because you were working for a big company at that point.
Yeah. Yeah, I know. I mean, so because first I was working for a small market research company, but then we got bots, right. So we got acquired by Obi Wan. And I'm not I'm not a fan of work. Big companies and you know, and I've been, you know, doing that job for a while. And I thought, you know, I really need to, you know, I needed a change. And I was always sort of drawn in by the startup world. I always wanted to try that out and an opportunity presented itself. And I just took it. So that's
that. And that was two years ago, it was beginning of 2021.
And that was when he joined BTP.
Yes, yeah. And by the way, it's a fun fact, I was the first analyst who covered the company. Yeah, the company was founded in 2018. And I wrote about it because I knew the CEO, from you know, his previous company, they used to be a client. And so I wrote about the company. And then I continued, because then I was like, sort of the blockchain market analyst. So I continue to write about the company. So I knew everything about a couple I know everything, see, but I knew the company already.
Yeah. So you would have been incredibly well prepared for a job interview, if you'd been researching the company for several years.
Yeah. And it was actually a very informal one, because I knew my interviewer, like, it was like a very nice, very relaxed conversation that was like, no stress at all.
So in addition to your work, you curate the DLT landscape. I looked at it recently, and it was like, super fascinating for me to see how much more mature the sector is compared to a few years ago, which is like, way more complexity. We'll put a link to that down in the description for anyone who's not seen him. But it would be good. If you could just like, talk me through a little bit about the evolution of the DLT ecosystem?
¶ The evolution of the DLT ecosystem.
Yeah, yeah. So actually, that that sort of initiative was inspired by the complexity, as you said, the complexity of the market, because, you know, around 2019, and so you could see that companies started to innovate, you know, beyond what was known as that poor ledger or core blockchain. Until then, it was like, you know, that part of the technology was, you know, evolving, there were like, new blockchains coming out, and so
on. But then, you know, people started to talk about other things that are associated to to blockchain, and it was, you know, like, everybody, you know, like, was talking about smart contracts, like tokenization, you know, even provenance
capabilities, and so on. So, these companies started to, you know, come up with, with, you know, different technology, pieces of technology offerings around those things, and even, you know, intersections with with existing or other, you know, emerging technologies, such as AI, IoT, and so on. So, so that's how, and it really got
very complex. And I think a lot of people were, you know, a little bit confused, because there were, like, you know, terms use for, like, different terms used for the same things or, or the same term used for different things. So I really wanted to provide or provide some clarity on those things. And that's, that's how it sort of was the idea was born to to create the health landscape.
Yeah. So in that time, I guess companies and developers have really gone from playing with Blockchain to starting to realize the value of all of that. And how do you
¶ What are the biggest opportunities for companies in blockchain to achieve value?
think like, where do you think the biggest opportunities are for companies to achieve value in blockchain technology just now?
I guess. I think 2017 was actually a very crazy year from from, from different perspectives, but then I obviously don't want to talk about you know, what happened with all those crazy initial coin offerings and stuff. But in terms of blockchain, I got a lot of companies. I guess not, there was like, a ridiculous amount of announcements around proof of
concepts. Right. So a lot of organizations started, as you said, started to play with the technology they did they there was like, no real conviction about it, but they were like, Okay, let's see what we can do with it. And then some companies were like, Oh, our competitors are doing something with Blockchain we should do something with Blockchain as
well. So you know, you've you've seen these projects, but you know, many of them just they didn't make it they stay there in that you know, POC stage but I think since then, and obviously, there were some big initiatives which were you know, driven by these big companies, big names, big brands, also driven by this big tax as well. And these are like huge multi
year projects. And you know, some of them are not had to close shop since since then, but I think what the good thing was that, you know, some like, some organizations realize that hey, why don't we just you know, use with don't do this boil the ocean things, but we try to, you know, improve a process, improve a system. Let's see what how blockchain can do that or smart contracts or something, you know, Like automating pieces of a process. So how do we do that?
Right? Let's see, if we can get, you know, get too comfortable with the technology, we get some value early on, you know, we work with our partners and see just, you know, again, that get getting comfortable with it, seeing how it works, seeing the value, and then go from that. And actually, those are the projects that made it to production and actually stayed in production.
Interesting. So as companies gotten a bit more mature and pragmatic, they started to get better results is like the key takeaway from what I'm hearing. But how has that then impacted the vendor landscape out there? Because I imagine that the services and the technologies people thought they would use has probably changed quite a bit as a result of that.
Yeah, actually, there were because, you know, you know, especially at the beginning, it was like, sort of the science project like, so organizations or entities or organizations that did not have the skill set, right? To do it. So they needed that expertise from companies like, you know, platform providers, or these, you know, the big names in the professional services area, and
so on. So those sort of companies, you know, tried to make it easy for these for these organizations, just, you know, maybe they just needed someone to take care of like doing the DevOps, right, the development operations part of the piece or, or they needed help with developing an application on top of blockchain, integrating these different pieces together, and so on. So, so those the number of those companies increased significantly in the last few years.
Hmm, interesting. So BTP, are focused on helping companies solve challenges around digital provenance. First of all, can you tell me what exactly is digital provenance?
¶ What is digital provenance?
Yes, so I guess, you obviously everybody's familiar with the term provenance. But you know, that was like us associated with the art worlds, but actually, it's an area that, you know, can be applied to a wide range of things across sectors and industries and can
add a lot of value. So just like simply put, provenance that captures the origin and the life journey, including the ownership, history of any physical or digital asset, it can be, you know, artwork, a diamond, or medical implants, or commodity user data, I mean,
anything anything of value. And it's, it's important, because, you know, I guess, well, first and foremost, if it adds that missing, transparency and trust into, you know, like a wide range of markets, you know, you can, for example, you can use the, you know, like to pinpoint, like fraud contaminations, counterfeits do that, like, very
quickly. So, obviously, you want to ensure consumer safety and so on, you can, you know, businesses can demonstrate that the product that they're selling is, you know, is environmentally friendly, that, you know, it was produced in a, you know, socially and ethically responsible way, and so on. So it's, you know, it's actually, I think it's a it's a very, it's an it's a very important error.
Yeah, the applications sound absolutely vast Can, can you give me an example of how, like, BTP have used that in, like, something that maybe it's a bit more unexpected and adds value to business? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, obviously, art, the world will be straightforward. But yeah, let's, maybe let's go for maybe a less sexy example, but a very important one, I mean, just think about, like, critical infrastructure, for example, and, you know, same guarding that critical infrastructure. If you think about when, for example, when working with, you know, energy and utilities companies, you
know, gas pipelines. Just imagine, I mean, it's very important that, you know, each piece of that gas pipeline comes here, it's not fraudulent, right. So it has good quality, it has is has no flaws, you want to know where it comes from, if, you know, the supplier is the right supplier, that you know, so to that piece, and, you know, from from the supplier, you know, it has that that's just a commodity, it has a life, right? Until it gets, you know, sort of
implemented and so on. So you want to know, who interacted with it, how it got there? Who who touched it? What did they do with it? So So you want to make sure that you have an and you want to have you know, access to this information, like all the time yet, it has to be timely, right? So it's, I don't have time to you know, it's because sometimes when people think about digital is like, yeah, sending a PDF via email. No, that's not digital, right. We don't think about digital like
that. So that and then again, yeah, so all the parties that sort of take part in this process, for example, in the guest pipeline. Example. They need to have access to that data. And they need to see the same version of the data, it has to be one choose. So I think this is why, you know, this is why this is so important, like what digital provenance is so important.
Yeah. And it sounds like centralizing all of that information in one place is another key component, you can imagine, you know, you know, the kind of like, critical infrastructure example that you've just given you, companies right now, imagine they have different records, potentially on paper, some of them in different places, you know, maybe like some of the engineering team, some on a quality audit, some with purchasing, that having that single point of truth can be
absolutely invaluable from like health and safety, maintenance, making good business decisions about how you run your assets, like Bill assets are incredibly expensive, if anything goes wrong. And then I imagine there's some benefits around insurance.
Yeah, no, yeah, definitely. And, yes, definitely, obviously, it's not just, you know, this authenticity and safety aspect, but the efficiency, you can save a lot of costs when you are doing things, right.
Yeah, definitely. So what other kind of areas of business can get value from understanding provenance a bit more effectively?
Yeah, well, I guess in a similar vein to this example, I mean, if you think about an aircraft, you know, that's made up of, you know, I don't know, 1000s of, you know, spare parts.
¶ Understanding the value of digital provenance.
And you definitely want to make sure that the spare part of that aircraft is not flawed, is not a counterfeit, it, it's still air worthy. So it's not and you know, when it has to be retired, it has to be retired. And at that, you know, when it has to be retired, so that's also, you know, in terms of, of a safety issue, right. So, so that's sort of another example, which is actually well, similar to the to the gas pipeline, one. So
what advice would you give to enterprise companies that are looking to leverage blockchain technology? Because whilst these examples sound really simple, there's just so many moving parts, it just sounds really complex and challenging.
Yeah, so yeah, I guess, as I mentioned, before, you know, there are these boil the ocean projects? No, I mean, I would say start small. Start with a small project, just again, get comfortable with the technology, work with your partners. Because yeah, Blockchain by nature is multiparty not only in its use, but it's in development as well. So it's not something that you will, you know, you want to sort of implement internally, it's implemented with your partner, so you need to work with that.
But then, you know, start small, get everybody on board. You need to see the value, like some value at the beginning. And then when you're comfortable with it, you see that value, then you can grow from there. So that's yeah, that would be my my main advice base, you know, basil, I guess experience.
So start small, make sure there's like a really valuable purpose, and then monitor and manage that project quite carefully.
Well, yeah. especially the big ones. I mean, some of these big projects that, you know, had to grow sharp. I mean, it was like a huge project management, you know, chaos. So, yeah, you have to manage it
properly. Earlier, when you were talking about the DLT landscape, you mentioned that, you know, there's like, more sections there around the intersection with AI and IoT. What do you think the biggest applications are in those areas?
I mean, obviously, I mean, IoT is definitely. So when we are talking about, for example, like physical assets, I mean, you need to sort of digitize that, right. So you need to create a digital twin. So then, like, sort of, yeah, IoT is inevitable. So then obviously, when it's digitized, then you know, yeah, then you record it on a blockchain. It's immutable. There are capabilities to, you know, record the right data, query,
the idea and so on. But yeah, then again, you have to connect the digital world with the physical and then for example, IoT helps, and that's, I think that's a huge area. Like that intersection is a huge, huge opportunity.
And then how about with AI? The what, what do you see the link up being?
Well, I guess there are different links, you know, one, so blockchain can improve AI, you know, when it comes to, you know, this whole notion around responsible AI. So you want to Make sure that the data that you that algorithms use that you use to train those algorithms are, you know, go good genuine, the raw data, right? So provide that provenance is, for example, and then obviously record everything on a blockchain is important.
And then, you know, in terms of, sort of, you know, when you have the data on a blockchain that you can use, you know, AI to, you know, just to flag things in advance, right. So there's, you know, they, so that algorithm can learn about, you know, what's what's, what's, what's, what's a good asset, what's, what's the process, that is correct, and then flag if sees a flaw in that and just flag it in advance, then you can take that corrective action on a timely, rather than later.
And I think you hit on something there with provenance of data. That's definitely something that we're going to have to consider a lot more carefully. I know, I think you recently wrote a blog or a post about research papers and blockchain. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. And yeah, well, actually, the recent one was around because there's so many misconceptions about, you know, like, provenance. Sometimes, like, yeah, I found that people think when you say blockchain is like, oh, yeah, the provenance is there. I mean, so like, what is your company doing? It's like, well, the provenance is not there. I mean, Blockchain means there's an audit trail, right? For that data that you capture, there's an audit trail, or the trace that same thing, that
provenance, right? So you need the capabilities to, you know, find that right data captured the right data, you can, you know, obviously you record that, and you can query it. And, you know, it's, it's, it's just not it doesn't, you know, appear there automatically. So, you know, there's one misconception and then there are some others, there are people so confusing, you know, like provenance with, with authentication. See, they are not the same thing. So So yeah, and I love to write about
these things. Because these things come up on, you know, we talk to clients or peers, and so on this thing come up, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I should write about these things. Right. So it's nice. I really love love to do this.
And, like I mentioned earlier, that you've also been an elite athlete, I believe you actually won the Masters World Championship for a beach volleyball in 2017. And I know that you've been collecting lots of medals and trophies, that first of all, how do you fit sport and training in alongside work?
Yes. Sports, to me is sort of is my happy place. Right. And I think everybody needs a happy place. Obviously, I love my job. But sports is my happy place. And it's to me, it's it's non negotiable. So I literally have time blocked in
¶ How Csilla fits competitive sports alongside work.
my calendar. Like no meetings. I'm playing beach volleyball now, or Yeah, no meetings. I'm doing CrossFit. It's so it's, it's, you know, it helps me obviously, it helps me disconnect. It's that time when, you know, when I don't think about work, I just, I'm just focused on what I'm doing. So yeah, so again, it's a non negotiable thing. And I think when you when something makes you happy, you just make time for it. So I don't mind like,
you know, doing long hours. I realize, I mean, I love my job again, but I don't mind doing those long hours. But you know, if I'm playing beach volleyball, I'm playing dodgeball,
and the BTP team is distributed quite globally. So I guess you get to manage a lot of your own time that way, when you're working across different time zones.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have like, the super flexible, to be honest. I mean, obviously. Yeah, I have, you know, colleagues in San Francisco, obviously, you know, there's this nine hour difference. I have colleagues in New York, in
¶ Why work-life balance and sports can benefit your professional mindset.
the UK, I mean, Barcelona, so So yeah, I mean, it's fine. I mean, I don't mind having a call at 10pm. But yeah, but then again, I mean, if I want to do, you know, cross, I need that time off. During the day, I cannot, you know, you cannot work and focus like for, you know, 14 hours straight, right. So you need that, you know, the time for yourself as well.
And you're obviously incredibly passionate about sports. So how do you think like, what other benefits do you think there are for kind of like work life balance and for employers or giving people this kind of flexibility?
I mean, I think I actually, you know, the this it's disciplines, to be honest, it sport disciplines you it makes you persistent, when you know if, I mean, for example, I'm a fighter, like, if I you know, I want to I really want to do something I want to, I just I just go for it. And I think sports helped me I mean, I've been doing sports since you know, since I was seven years old. So it's sort of it's part. It's part of my role, my personality.
It's just baked in now. So I have all the leaders I've spoken to recently, you come across as like, incredibly energetic and confident. And I imagine that sports giving you lots of energy there, but I can tell you, you know, you've worked hard to become an expert in the area that you're in. But I'd love to know more about your mindset. Like, what what is it that, you know, that really propels you?
Yeah, so yeah, so as I mentioned, I'm a fighter and a doer. So if I really want something, I go for it. I don't shy away from a hard task. I don't mind like putting in the effort. I also am okay with taking risks. Right. So at the end of the day, I think, you know, if something doesn't work out, then you can make another decision and change that. So nothing is forever, right. So I guess I just approach every situation with sort of with this mindset.
Very cool. And that self belief is just absolutely invaluable. Yeah, I think so. I think that if you have that, then lots of good things can come from it, you tend to not be overwhelmed. And, you know, I think that it's actually part of having a growth mindset, believing that you can do whatever you put your mind to, I mean, like, you're not gonna get it right. You're not always gonna be the best person to do it. But, you know, if you don't try, you're never gonna learn.
Yeah, and sometimes you say, I mean, sometimes you have to really, I mean, when you have to let go, you let go, right? So sometimes you just, you know, you try, you need to move on. And that's also part of you are part of life, right?
And part of business as well. Knowing that
¶ Embracing the value of failing and learning.
what you're doing now is not necessarily what's going to work is so valuable in the startup world and being accepting of failure. It's gonna allow you to, like pivot at the right time, potentially. Or seize an opportunity. Yep.
Yeah, actually, we just like recently reposition the company. Yeah, we, you know, you learn from things you, you have to, you know, watch the market constantly. And as you say, like, look for opportunities, and there's an opportunity, you have to go for it. And if it you know, if you need to make changes, then you you will make changes. It's that's totally fine. And well, that's scary.
Yeah, it's just part of the evolution.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, Sheila, thanks so much for your time. It's been great getting to know you and learning more about blockchain and DLT. If anyone's got any questions, they can reach out to you on the contact details below. But yeah, thanks so much. It's been super interesting.
Thank you so much, Rebecca. Thanks for having me.
Thanks for listening to the Listen perspective. I'm Rebecca, a St. Founder and Director at the Listen group, a tech sector executive search and talent consultancy. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. If you're a company looking to hire top technology leaders, or you'd like to discuss your next move, please reach out to me on LinkedIn or send