Ep. 340 - What is Christ Consciousness?

But there's a greater problem that is associated with this , because it undermines the atonement right , that at-one-ment with Christ . It doesn't deal with the sin problem . This is the biggest issue . We produced . Why Christianity ?

A DVD , a booklet that you can get here at Living Waters , and it says that there's so many great religions but there's only one great religion . Because this great religion Christianity . It deals with man's biggest problem , which is you have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God , hebrews 922 . Without the shedding of blood there is no remission right .

So no amount of enlightenment can erase that stain of sin . Only the blood of Jesus can do this . So you may look better than you were yesterday . It's kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous , right ? They are forced , maybe by a court order , to attend Alcoholics Anonymous and you need to get at one with your inner self .

And now it's whatever your higher power is and you move from one vice to the next vice . That's all it is . You're still dead man's bones on the inside . Spurgeon said morality may keep you out of jail , but it takes the blood of Jesus to keep you out of hell . Right , so we have to deal with it . There's a bigger issue , a bigger problem here .

Or as MacArthur put it the gospel is not about making bad men better , but making dead men alive . So you seem to be doing better , but what are you going to do on that day when every idle word you have spoken is going to be made manifest ?

Everything ever done in darkness is going to come out inside the light , and this is why we go through those commandments , we get into this argument about their philosophy , but why not we just get down to the foundation here , that you've been weighed in the balances of an eternal scale .

You've been found lacking , and your only hope is found in Him , who is our hope , which is Jesus , the Messiah . The Messiah .

It ended up being horrendous because of the intentionally hideous depiction of the most important person on this podcast . So look at this , it's bigger . Oh , thank you , oscar , here on this podcast . So look at this .

This is a card that we got . We love things we can hold and see . Dear Ray , oscar , mark and Easy how come you're not complaining ?

I'm both convicted and energized by the important and often difficult topics you cover , and I've even set aside my fears and started handing out your tracts , along with grocery store gift cards , to homeless people in our city as a token of our appreciation . We made these stickers to remind you all how to sound like Ray when you're speaking to the lost .

Seth 23 . Ellie , 22 . Mossberg how cool . And then , once again , I am dissed , because there's one of Ray , one of Mark , one of Oscar , none of the Arab cherub .

Oh , and this is a mystery , I don't know if our dear friend sent these or someone else , but we got back scratchers .

, brian was with us on our South Pacific Rim trip . He protected us . Oh yeah , he was our protection and we missed your beard , brian , thanks for bringing it today . It's glorious to have it , and Linda made a really nice comment about me . This is like destroy easy day . We asked about my voice , oscar asked about my voice and she said it's endearing now .

Yeah , but I thought , then the ministry opened to me and I stopped doing silly stuff like that .

There are things that seem kind of redemptive but ultimately it goes against things that scripture says , and so here's a quote . When I talk of Christ now this is a person who's deconstructed it's usually not in reference to the historical Jewish man named Jesus . Jesus knew , to the historical Jewish man named Jesus . Jesus knew .

Listen , jesus knew the Christ , he expressed the Christ , he realized the Christ , he embodied the Christ . But he was not synonymous with the Christ . We tend to think of Christ he uses quotes there as his last name . Christ is more like a title , a descriptor , a category , a quality , not a particular human being .

He goes on to say that Christ is a state of pure consciousness , a state of holistic being , a state of unitive perception . Some have described it as non-dual , unitive consciousness . We can explain that in a second .

Labeling it exclusively Christ is also a bit of a misnomer , and this is important , for it could also be called Krishna consciousness , buddha consciousness , the Atman , the all in son all , camille the Messiah , the true self , and many other names , I feel like .

Remember my mom was out and I went to the kitchen and got every ingredient out of every cupboard she had put it in a huge bowl , stirred it up , everything , salt , pepper , flour , jam honey , I've never , heard this story , Ray ?

No , the smell put me off . And the pepper ? I remember the pepper was the strongest smell of everything . It just overwrought everything . I don't know why I did it . What a bored child , what is wrong with you ?

I think he had some good things to say . He said the Center for Christ Consciousness defines Christ consciousness as the highest state of intellectual development and emotional maturity . They go on to claim that Jesus achieved this higher state of being .

No , achieved this higher state of being in his human life and was given this term Christ before his name , as the recognition of his achievement of his spiritual status . I can't help but laugh .

This path is open to anyone , regardless of their religious tradition , if and when he or she is open to become a living vessel of love and truth on the planet and actively strives to attain it . Another site defines it this way Christ consciousness is the state of awareness of our true nature , our higher self and our birthright as children of God .

So again , just yeah , basically , in a sense it's not new , so to speak . It's a form of Gnosticism in a sense , but it's come up again . Yogapediacom . Yogapedia , you made that up . This commentator highlighted this . He said Christ consciousness is an awareness of the higher self as part of a universal system .

Although it can be interpreted in a number of ways , a common understanding is that Christ consciousness is a state of consciousness in which a person has found self-realization and unity with God or the divine . It may also be used as a synonym for the yogic and Hindu concept of samadhi or deep spiritual bliss .

Although Christ consciousness is not intended to relate solely to the personality of Jesus Christ , its combination of Christian language with Eastern religious and philosophical concepts make it a controversial term to some . So , yeah , it's Eastern mysticism , you know , in a sense repackaged . And , oscar , I'm glad you highlighted Richard Rohr , because he's like the guy .

I mean , he's the guy that's really kind of popularized it . And Oprah latched onto it and then that again put it massively in the mainstream . He said this . He said this is Rohr . He said the second coming of Christ is you . And the second coming of Christ is still happening . It's not one event , it's all of history . We , we are the second coming of Christ .

And then he went on to say he said the Christ mystery is whenever matter and spirit are operating as one , and you're the first generation that ever had a word for this . At the moment of the big bang Ray , you always talk about how evolution is used as the foundation for so much false teaching . There was no God , and then we are the definition of that .

It didn't start . 2,000 years ago , god started manifesting listen the God self . The infinite , eternal life of the Trinity outflowed and manifested itself in everything visible your eyes have ever seen . So I wanted to go through that to give you , our friends who are listening , kind of a grasp of what this is all about .

Ultimately , oscar , it's the God self , it's you being actualized as God .

They sense a need to understand what's going on in the world beyond just the material , and so they're searching . They desire to know something about the world and themselves . And ultimately , what we're trying to show here is that this direction leads you away from the truth , not into the truth .

I mean , I look at it like I try to break it down in my notes and different doctrinal beliefs and understandings , which is our previous episode . And so just one example is that salvation is redefined here , which is that sin is now just an illusion of a separation between us and God .

And salvation is now escaping your own personal ego and realizing you're not separate beings but part of a divine consciousness . And I think of the movie Avatar , where they plug into the great tree and they're one with the world . That's that separation and then reunion .

And the reality is that scripture reminds us that sin is not just a mistaken perception or an ego issue . Sin is a real rebellion against a holy and good God , and salvation is not about you killing your ego , but about you dying to yourself so that you would be found in Christ , known and loved by a true God , not just some self-realized consciousness .

The beauty of the gospel is it's not about you loving yourself more . It's about you realizing that you've rebelled against a God who has stepped into reality to save you because he loves you .

We have moral values that are attached to the decisions that we make , that we care about the right and wrong , not just have these instincts . I remember inside of college , when I was attending Golden West College , there was a question asked from one of the professors what is the difference between man and animals ?

And I remember a young lady had raised her hand . She says well , we're domesticated , we use silverware . And then she showed a video of an animal using a stick , putting it down inside of a hole and allowing the bugs to climb up that stick , and then using that and was eating the bugs that were climbing up on that .

That's not what separates us , you know , from the animals . We are all together different . Galatians 2.20 , it says I've been crucified with Christ . It is no longer I who live , but Christ who lives in me . You know we're talking about this Christ consciousness and where they are attempting to find themselves .

But it is the antithesis of what Scripture says , because it's not about finding yourself . It's about losing yourself and denying yourself . It's not about attaining to a level that you may be higher above everybody else and having this gnostic thought . I have this inside , information that you don't . We are gods , and this is what Shirley MacLaine did .

He is the way , the truth and the life . If you're confused , he's the truth . Are you depressed and suicidal ? He's the vine . He is the way , the truth and the life . If you're confused , he's the truth . Are you depressed and suicidal ? He's the life . He is everything , everything in one that we will ever need .

And when we say that I am like God , you have to think of what you're actually saying . Remember when we were in Santa Monica and that individual .

And then , in the midst of that , Ray goes what's your name ? And he goes straight from oh , larry , larry .

There's no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved . He that abides not in the doctrine of Christ has not God . I think it says whoever transgresses and abides not in the doctrine of Christ has not God . I am the way , the truth and the life . No man comes to the Father but by me .

So he is the mediator between man and God , not just a good teacher , but God manifest in the flesh .

So they'll say God , and then they'll say but we can become God Versus no . What's the saying ? There's a God and you're not him . If there's anything that's true , there's a God and you're not him . And the only way you can get to him is through the God-man , the mediator between God and man , jesus Christ .

And you can see how demonic it is because many a time on Huntington Beach Pier I've gone to interview some lady who's in her maybe mid-50s and she just looks like a New Ager and she's sound even before we start . And she is Because it's so prevalent in Southern California .

People will be involved in New Age and when we get to the gospel you can see the contention , the spiritual battle going on with someone who's New Age because , it really is demonic .

And a part of the challenge is so many people who view the world this way reinterpret things that the scripture tells us , and this is kind of what you're alluding to . They reinterpret things the scripture tells us to mean something totally different . So , for example , the crucifixion . Someone would view the crucifixion as a symbolism . Jesus didn't die for sins .

He showed us how to crucify our ego . So when Paul says I've been crucified with Christ , he's referring to his own ego . But of course , to spiritualize the cross is to drain it of its power . The view of the atonement Atonement is about divine awareness . Of course , to spiritualize the cross is to drain it of its power .

The view of the atonement Atonement is about divine awareness and Jesus helps us realize that we're really not separated from God . But of course , this distorts both sin and grace . Forgiveness is seen as a great awakening to understand your consciousness , seen as a great awakening to understand your consciousness .

But real forgiveness faces evil , absorbs the cost of sin and chooses mercy . And finally , the resurrection . It's not physical , according to them . It's symbolic . Resurrection means awakening to the divine self , the defined now . It's transcending ego into oneness . But if Christ wasn't bodily raised from the dead , then our faith is futile .

Christianity's resurrection hope is not like this great metaphor to help us be at more one in peace with ourselves . It's an embodied , renewed , ongoing death itself . The early church didn't risk their lives . The apostles , they didn't risk their life over symbolism . They risked their lives and even died because Jesus actually rose from the dead .

There's this form of godliness , but it denies its power . Someone said beware of spirituality that starts with me , myself and I . And that's really . Someone said beware of spirituality that starts with me , myself and I . And that's really what all worldviews outside of Christianity is . It's all about me attaining me , trying to . What is it ?

Religion is man's attempt to get to God , but Christianity was not God's attempt , but that's the terminology . God reaching down to man , get down to man , right . So , dietrich Bonhoeffer . He said when Christ calls a man , he bids him to come and die .

So there is not anything about the New Age religion , which has this form of godliness that we can't attach to . And remember if you're not meditating on truth , you're going to believe lies are true . So we need to get past these Instagram reels , which is where we tend to get our news from , and open up God's Word and say search me and try me .

I get my news from TikTok , tiktok yeah , much different .

The whole family goes down the river and there's powers involved that we don't know about . If you don't embrace the truth and you love a lie , you'll be given a strong delusion . Scripture says in Thessalonians . And so what New Age does ? It denies that Jesus is unique as the Christ and the Savior . It teaches that humans are divine , contradicting Scripture .

It rejects salvation by grace through faith and replaces it with self-enlightenment . And that's the basis of it . It's rooted in human pride .

Luke and I were coming back from our trip to Louisiana and our Lyft driver was taking us home , so I started to share the gospel with him and he was hesitant . He's like yeah , yeah , I have another religion , you know , and he was a Hispanic guy . English was a bit broken , it was hard to fully understand him , but ultimately

he goes yeah , I am a Gnostic . I'm like what ? He's like yeah , gnostic . I had to have him spell it to make sure I understood what he was saying . And why does it start with g ? Right , and so he . But he goes on to talk again about every way leads to god . Every way leads to god .

I thought this is perfect because I'm sitting in the back seat and I'm looking at his gps . On the screen we're heading , heading 55 north , and I said hey , if you take 55 south , will that get you to my house ? He's like oh well , you know . And I'm like no , there's one direction that you have to go in in order to reach it .

You can't just say , oh , I'm going to do what I want and that'll get me to your house , and so . But ultimately , something he said in the course of our conversation again highlighted the fact that there's some form of sexual immorality tied into this , and we see that .

So , mark , I'm curious what you think about this , because it's become a buzzword . Christ consciousness . But people , even within some evangelical circles I've heard it used but they think of it as like oh no , I'm conscious of Christ , but it's not that right .

Just what do you mean by that ? Because we have to be gracious to people who are on this journey , trying to work through things , and they ask a question that they haven't thought too deeply about . So what is the best way to witness to a Buddhist ? It's not the way you witnessed to the Buddhist last time , necessarily . Same way .

You don't witness to the Mormon the same way you witnessed to that Mormon last time . We are called to be slow to speak , quick to listen I mean just quick to love , and we know that there's nothing more loving than to give somebody truth .

But let's listen to the journey as much as possible , depending on that time restraint , allow them to talk and then to slowly begin to work into what they're saying , with good questions , good answers to what's going on , good questions , good answers to what's going on , ray , there's a confidence , isn't there , in having the truth .

You're not Trying to jump in and you know and like , argue and get intense , but you just okay , let them go .

And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle , patient , able to teach in humility , correcting those who are in opposition . Make the most of your time with outsiders , redeeming the time .

Let your speech always be the grace , seasoned with salt , that you may know how to answer each one , even when Peter talks about giving an answer for the hope that is in you , you get with gentleness and respect . So we have to remember that . It's easy to be like , well , that's pretty stupid , what do you think about that ? Do you think about it ?

But just to be like , hey , they're blind , like we once were , they're lost , like we once were . And then , mark , what you're saying about not letting every conversation have to necessarily be this package ?

Of course there's going to be things we'll say that are similar , because it's a new person , but it's that disposition and demeanor that conveys to that unbeliever . I care about you . You're an individual in front of me . I'm not rattling off some memorized speech just so that I could put you as a notch on my belt . Like I care about you .

You know , I see that with Ray . Like Ray will say a lot of the same things , but every time I hear him it's like the first time and you say to the person listen to the earnestness in my voice , I care about you . I mean Ray , that's prime .

I said to him what culpability do I have if I see sharks in an area that you're going to swim in ? Do I have a moral obligation to warn you ? He says yeah , I said what ? Say there's a big notice up there that says sharks do not swim , but you still go in . Am I then culpable ? And he said no , that notice should be enough for me .

And then went through the commandments and I said , um , do you see a danger ? And he says no , not really . I says , well , you've got a big shark notice , a warning , and it's your conscience . You need me , need me to tell you that you know that's your warning and you've transgressed it and you're in great danger . And afterwards he just hung around .

He should have just left after what I said to him he can get , get out of here , but he would not . It almost becomes a point of embarrassment where they just stay around and the conversation dries up and they're just standing there and it's because they feel the love of God .

And this other guy comes up and he's trying to help the girl and he's trying to escort her away from the man and she goes no , no , no , and she pushed him off and kept listening and at the end she demonstrated gratitude .

And it reminded me , ray , of a encounter you had the guy , the guy who wanted to get away from you , and he was just had enough and he said I haven't , I haven't , uh , killed anyone yet , or so , or I haven't broken the rock .

I love what you said . You know practically because when you look at Jesus in Mark 6 , you know he looked at the multitude , he was moved with compassion for them and it says he taught them you know many things , but then he fed them . He fed the multitude , he felt compassion for them and so it was the truth , but mixed with good works .

And we want to get into debate mode rather than trying to find common ground to draw them in to the truth , beauty and goodness that's offered in the gospel . And so one example of that if you're talking to somebody about christ , consciousness and etc . Etc . To start simply complimenting them , man , I can tell you care deeply about spiritual things . Where do you ?

And then you know ?

Because , ultimately , what you're doing is you're trying to discover an aspect of their life that is searching for something , and then from there you can pivot into the actual truth . Ultimately , I can't help but wonder that so many people in new age , they sense their need for something . They know they're sick and they're looking for a cure .

They've just been sold snake oil and we have the actual cure , which is the gospel . And so , instead of going in hard and fast and combative and telling them they're wrong , listen to what they're looking for and provide them the truth , beauty and goodness offered through the gospel .

We would treat a blind man with tremendous gentleness because of his blindness . If someone walked into the studio and tripped over a chair , I wouldn't say look , watch where you're going , buddy .

The God of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not , and so that's why we need to have gentleness , because they cannot understand what we're saying yeah , and it's easy to lose sight of the importance of that because , again , we always drift back toward selfishness .

Colossians 2 , 8 to 9 , beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit according to the tradition of men , according to the basic principles of the world , and not according to Christ , for in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily .

I mean , it's interesting here because this kind of ties into what we're talking about in terms of the Christ consciousness and new ageism , because it's a reminder that in Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily .

But there's people who will cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit and it's based on the tradition of man , it's the basic principles of the world , it's not according to Christ , to the true Christ and Mark . We come back again to being so familiar right with the authentic that we recognize the counterfeit .

And everything is just all about me , myself and I . But there's a greater problem that is associated about me myself and I , right . But there's a greater problem that is associated with this , because it undermines the atonement right , that at-one-ment with Christ . It doesn't deal with the sin problem . This is the biggest issue . We produced why Christianity ?

A DVD , a booklet that you can get here at Living Waters , and it says that there's so many great religions but there's only one great religion , because this great religion Christianity . It deals with man's biggest problem , which is you have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God , hebrews 9.22 . Without the shedding of blood there is no remission right .

So no amount of enlightenment can erase that stain of sin . Only the blood of Jesus can do this right . So you may look better than you were yesterday . It's kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous , right ? They are forced , maybe by a court order , to attend Alcoholics Anonymous and you need to get at one with your inner self .

And now it's whatever your higher power is and you move from one vice to the next vice . That's all it is . You're still dead man's bones on the inside . Spurgeon said morality may keep you out of jail , but it takes the blood of Jesus to keep you out of hell . So we have to deal with it .

There's a bigger issue , a bigger problem here , or as MacArthur put it the gospel is not about making bad men better , but making dead men alive . So you seem to be doing better , but what are you going to do on that day when every idle word you have spoken is going to be made manifest ?

Everything ever done in darkness is going to come out inside the light . And this is why we go through those commandments . We get into this argument about their philosophy , but why not ? We just get down to the foundation here , that you've been weighed in the balances of an eternal scale .

You've been found lacking and your only hope is found in Him who is our hope , which is Jesus , the Messiah .

Don't just go by the facade that you're seeing , because that can , I think , delude us into really losing sight of the urgency . It's like , oh yeah , that's Christ-conscious , but no man that whoa I mean so profound . You're denying the atonement , you're denying redemption , you're denying the Redeemer and , in

essence , you're denying the God who's the author of all those things .

It's Jesus easily . And I asked him what is the most important book in terms of what's the most printed , the most translated , the most purchased , the most read book in the world ? Oh , the Bible .

And so you're asking questions and then you tell them man , don't you think it's reasonable , if Jesus is the most important person that's ever lived and the Bible's the most important book that's ever been written , that you check it out ? And I've just seen people go oh , that does make sense .

Well , how about you ? If you believe something that was wrong , would you wanna know ? Yeah , absolutely , man , that's all I'm doing with you . I care about you and I understand you believe that I'm wrong . I'm open to listen to you . I'm not shutting down . I want to hear what you have to say . Honestly , share it with me .

I'm curious when do you get this from ? But that's where I'm coming from , because I'm concerned about you and I'm just so thankful you're open to this respectful dialogue .

Talk like that makes people put their guard down and open up , and then you enter in with truth that makes people put their guard down and open up , and then you enter in with truth and it helps have

She says , but you've got a dog with sunglasses on and that changed everything for her and I remember another guy . He came on and did an interview and I said you so readily did the interview .

And he said to himself I think I mentioned this before how could you be so bad if you've got a dog wearing sunglasses and so it breaks down those barriers for me ?

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached , or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received , or a different gospel which you have not accepted , you may well put up with it . And so it's a different spirit , it's a spiritual battle .

That's not a love of the truth . Do they take up offerings ? Yeah , everything was just like an ordinary church service .

I mean in that , and this is connected to this basically , what's being implied is no , this was not the Christ who came in the flesh . He wasn't the incarnate Son of God . He had Christ consciousness and whatnot . And that's how you know . Anyone that denies the bodily incarnation of Christ is not of God .

Because I think sometimes we overlook that when we talk about evangelism , often on the podcast , I think we're thinking about those that are out and about , but man , sometimes for those listening , this has hit close to home with family , and sometimes it's not just family . That's like siblings , peer to peer .

It's not just your children , where you're an authority , sometimes it could even be your parents , your grandparents . Like , how do you appeal to people above you or below you ? In that sense ?

I mean this , this you know particular person got baptized when they were 12 , 13 years old and then , um , you know , when we lost somebody in the family , they started moving away from their uh , their proclaimed christian faith and into new age . Ism started , you know , thinking crystals were the answer and and , uh , just moving in that direction .

And I sat down with them , um , over a meal , bought it for them and walked through , um , really , the kind of conversation that we're , having now asked a lot of questions , tried to show them that what they're longing for is actually found in the gospel , and we had several conversations .

At some point it became clear to me that they weren't interested in having that conversation anymore , and so I've said this before evangelism and preaching the gospel is like an iceberg . It's the 20% you can see above water is your action . It needs to happen but 80% behind your action , unseen , is your prayer life .

You should be praying for the people you're preaching to . And so I quietly preached , uh , I quietly prayed , and prayed , and prayed and I can say , by the grace of God , this person , um , you know , either repented of and came back to the

Lord , or just recently got saved and baptized and is a member of a local church and is raising their child according to God's word . And that's not because I did it well , I was faithful with the truth and then I earnestly prayed for years for their salvation and God is faithful .

She came out of that whole world . She was actually like a guru , she was a top . She said this it was a gurid , a gurida .

Any other Christ is a deception . That's what it is . Then , rc Sproul , to define Christ apart from his atoning work , his divine nature and his role as Lord and Savior , is to create a false Christ , one who cannot save . That goes back to what we're saying . You connect the dots and ultimately , yeah , I connected the dots with .

So we have to know that , because the scriptures , especially 1 John , says a lot about Gnosticism and that can help us . But , guys , I want to close , do you want to define Gnosticism ? Yeah , so Gnosticism basically has at its root a denial of the incarnation of Christ . It has at its root the denial of really the importance .

It has connected to it really almost an element of antinomianism , because it denies the importance of living a righteous life , because they acknowledge the flesh as being evil and so anything that you do in the flesh it doesn't matter , because it's evil already .

If you recall , we believe that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God , and so the essence in the beginning of the heresy of Gnosticism started when they started denying the madness of Jesus and they thought of it as purely spiritual , and that moved them into the idea that everything physical is of the devil and that we need to sort of move more towards the spiritual

realm , yeah , and basically Christ as an emanation of God , but not himself the incarnate .

You know what I'm saying the fact that what as a part of the Great Commission , and lo , I am with you always , that's for sure , people , even unto the end of the age , and that he will never leave us nor forsake us . Guys , we have to remember that . I love this account given by someone a couple centuries ago . He said the time of business does not ?

Oh , I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear that You're quoting him the time of business does not differ with me from the time of prayer , and in the noise and clatter of my kitchen , while several persons are at the same time calling for different things , I possess God in as great tranquility as if I were upon my knees .

I love that that whole concept of you can be in the midst of the chaos of the world , but you possess Christ in you with as much tranquility as if you were in your prayer , closet on your knees .

He walks with God continually , having the loving

eye of his mind still fixed upon him and everywhere seeing him . That is invisible , ah that wherever we are , he is there . So that's Christ consciousness .

We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast , where we have no idea what we're doing . Ooh , I like that , right , what are we doing ? Ooh , I like that , ray . Can you say that again , ray ? What are we doing ?