¶ Difficulties and Preferences in Physical Discomfort
In John Fram's book the Doctrine of the Christian Life . Surprisingly and I love John Fram he argues that gambling is often wrong , but not always . He says that gambling can be linked to the worship of chance . It can be addictive , it can involve covetousness , it can be a waste of time and money . It can be thought of as a substitute for useful work .
It could fall under the control of organized crime . So while although Fram doesn't think of gambling as sinful in and of itself , he says that the circumstances around gambling often lead to it becoming an issue of sin . That's how John Fram would discuss gambling . That's how he frames it .
Welcome to the Choose One and Only One Living Waters Podcast segment , where we choose one and only one . All right guys . Would you rather hit your funny bone or get restless leg syndrome , or get a Charlie horse , or get a brain freeze , or get a leg cramp , or get a paper cut or have permanent helitosis ?
I know that the last one doesn't make sense because the three of you already have it very , very , very , very , very , very , very badly .
What was the options again , but .
I don't know , I've got them .
Which one ?
Racial leg syndrome . For sure Stop . I'm going to go with that in 30 seconds .
Okay , they are Again . Oscar , restless leg syndrome , charlie horse brain freeze , leg cramp , paper cut or permanent helitosis .
I'm going to go with brain freeze , brain freeze .
No , seriously , you can get rid of restless legs by getting on one of those exercise bikes for one minute and just going like crazy . I do it every night . But , ray , you are a bore .
Restless leg syndrome .
Yeah , but I get rid of it really quick through my bike , which is in the bedroom .
Is it in your hole ?
No , I should crawl out of the hole . What is ?
it with you and Rachel and your restless leg syndrome . It's one in the morning she's up doing squats .
Well , that's to do with some partogenous Einstein . You just get them Stop .
I get them a lot . So when I try to go to bed at night , I read I can't fall asleep , and then my legs start telling me they want to work out .
That's like the two things that happen back to back . That happens to millions of people . It's a lack of magnesium .
Is it really ? Yeah , okay , but here's the thing , though , so I stretch while I read .
It's called magnesium , but but restless .
Magaminesium , magam Magazines . Okay , restless leg syndrome , though , ray . The thing about it is it can last a long time . If you're on a plane , that's one of the worst places .
You go to the restroom and do squats . I used to do that in international flights .
It's horrible . Is there enough room ? Oh , for you there . What is for me ?
I was gonna say I used to take a team in and do that .
That's like an auditorium for you , man .
Yes , you can just play record ball .
Yeah , mark , what would you choose ?
I enjoy Charlie Horses . Maybe paper cuts on the eyeballs , something simple , I don't like Charlie Horses .
It's horrible . You can feel them coming .
I wake up with them in the middle of the night . Sometimes it's the worst .
Yeah , Seriously man who was Charlie . I don't know what's the deal with horses .
But when someone gives you a Charlie Horses , you know it can hit you on the arm . I've never had that . What ? What's never happened to me ?
Just happens . Naturally , mark , go to Charlie .
Horses . Yeah , Charlie Horses . It's like intentional Charlie .
Horses ? Yeah , normally their arm just breaks . Yeah , oscar , what about you ? I'm going with a frozen head syndrome .
Brain freeze . Brain freeze . Yeah , I mean seriously , aren't all these things annoying ? For me , one of the most miserable things , and I can't explain it . It's just this disgusting feeling when I hit my funny bone . Oh really .
But it's happened to you where it's been really hard and like you feel electricity , like right Go through your whole brain Crazy horse would call it a funny bone .
Anywhere it's not funny . Oh , I hit my funny bone .
What is that bone ? I hit my funny bone so hard in a basketball game one time I shot the ball and then , like , as I was coming down , the guy ducked under me and my elbow hit his head and it to this day . If I like , put my elbow down the wrong way , it feels like I'm putting it down on razor blades . I broke something in there .
Oh seriously , though , there's something about that feeling .
Oh , you do empathize , Oscar . Thank you .
Oh , that's nice , that's nice Oscar , but yeah , but what is ? That I wanted to know , why , is it that bone on the elbow ? It doesn't happen with my knee . There's no like wait seriously , you've had a funny bone knee hit .
Yeah , well , I mean , it's the same concept . You know , when the doctor comes up and hits you underneath your knee , cap or batilla , the knee goes in . So the idea and the concept is exactly the same Wait do they do that with your elbow for reflex .
Do they hit your elbow bone for reflex ?
Nope , no , we're just making it up . He wants to be a doctor ?
No , but that no idea what I'm saying .
Mark , I've had those moments where they do the well , you know , when they do their knee but , I want to control it where they hit your knee and your leg moves . What ? What do you mean ? Have they checked your forehead yet ? Stop it , Mark . Have them my forehead .
They start over the age of 40 , they start knocking you on your forehead , my whole body moves over the age of 40 . No , but that is one of the weirdest things hitting that your knee , and no matter what you say , it's going to move . You can't stop it .
Well , it's good though she's got good reflexes , but is that a reflex ?
Yeah , why is that a reflex ?
Well , I saw Mr Bean . He was hit underneath his right knee and his left knee went up . That's so funny .
I missed that a bean and missed that a bean Ray , remember when you were missing him for Mr Bean .
No , why do I get dragged through the mud ? I think she was referring to you . You're the one with a bean face . Excuse me , you're the one with a bean fringe .
Oh yeah , we talked about your mustache being shaved in one of the episodes . That was the byproduct . You didn't have your mustache , you looked like Mr Bean . I did with that mustache . I mean Israel , in that hotel , in that place where we ate .
Isn't he like six feet tall , though ? No , what if this whole time you were actually tall , but your mustache made you look sharp Weezy ?
That's a little relative . How many Mr Bean seasons were there Any ideas ?
Three no , I was scared of that one . That was really funny no .
There was only one . No stop Only one Mr Bean series . Yeah , 15 episodes .
Okay , I have a question for you guys on this point Eleven Would you back in the day before you knew the Lord and you cared about fame and fortune ? Would you be a character that will stick with you for life , like a Stephen Irkel or like a Mr Bean ? Because I don't think Mr Bean likes that character . I think he despises .
Or like what's that chef guy with the bright hair and the flaming t-shirts Guy , he's a guy .
Guy oh .
Guy .
Richie .
No , guy Fury , yeah , do you think Guy Fury wakes up as Guy Fury ?
No , I saw that guy in a cafeteria at a hospital once . Guy , I didn't know who he was . I didn't know who he was yet and he was talking about money and all this stuff . And then it turns out it was him .
Jester Aboudine had that problem . Who , come on ? You know , jester Aboudine ? I have no idea , ray , yeah , bidley Hilberleys , jester .
O , oh , yeah , right , that's what I'm talking about . Like you know , when you're a dits and a sitcom . Because I think like , I think the Irkel guy , I think he . That was probably because you get typecasts too , Typecasts .
Yeah , and then you take it .
Some people break out of it .
Mr T .
Yeah , well , you know , jim Carrey surprisingly Broke out of it . He did , he did some dramas , and he was actually a good actor in that realm too . Anyway , I would paper cuts oh , they're nasty , so wait , which one would you choose then ? That's what I'm trying to figure out . I don't even know .
I feel like the brain freeze is the worst I probably go for . I guess this paper cup syndrome is terrible .
Here's the reason why I choose brain freeze Because that means I'm eating ice cream , that's true . So there's a wind there .
I probably go for brain freeze , although that is pretty miserable .
What's a brain ? Freeze when you drink something really cold , you would need a brain tender set . Oh , I thought , when you just can't think straight .
No , but you've had that right . When you drink something real cold .
You just think how dumb I am to eat that it was really cold , but what is that ? What is happening ? I ?
want to know .
Just having something too cold . Your body's saying don't do this Physiologically your brain .
Why is your brain Feeling like it's gonna ?
I'm sure mark can make something up . Mark , mark make something up , is it ?
a headache . That's what's happening . An instant headache , I guess yeah yeah , there's .
There's something where Doctor come . Isn't there a game where you , you , you'd like tell Something that's not true , with like three things ?
but one of two truths in a lie .
Oh yeah , that's pretty cool . No , it's also known as you hit it here , the wet mark .
It's also known as ice cream headache . It's a sudden sharp pain in the forehead or temple area that occurs after consuming something like ice cream .
Yeah , sometimes it's really bad , really bad Only if you're all right .
France .
All right , oscar you're becoming quite the easy impersonator there . Well , thank you so much . Yeah , we have a comment from Castile 1993 loving the podcast so much . My name is Zachary and I'm 29 years old , married and have one son . Y'all encouraged me to be a godly man to my wife and son , though I've always strived to be that to my family .
I can't remember how I found this podcast , but I have been watching Ray for a long time . I love how he keeps the gospel simple , doesn't put fancy words in it . I'm a simple guy needing things . Said simply , I've been a Christian for about 12 to 13 years and love this podcast so much . It's encouraging and convicting .
It's really put pep in my step for the kingdom of God and to share the gospel . I've shared this podcast with a few people I work with . I love how y'all talk about the simple things of God but get so deep in it .
I'm part of a discipleship group and I lead a life group , so it's very encouraging for me to listen because I can always share , and I find myself sharing a lot of what I hear on the podcast with my D group . Keep on keeping on , mark . What in the universe are you ?
I'm actually sending this to one of your real job ?
It's not .
Shame we , so we call them the other Jeremy , our friend . He just sent me a text saying that he's listening to the podcast right now , so I'm gonna send a quick little video of us , okay .
Hey , by the way , shout out to Jeremy . Hmm , we called him . It was his birthday recently , his 16th birthday . He's part of a military family and he loves a podcast , loves the Lord and and loves giving out gospel tracks . So , jeremy , shout out . Thanks for listening to me , your favorite podcaster .
That's not what he told me .
All right , this podcast is brought to you .
¶ Is Gambling a Sin?
I'm so I I never , I never cease to amaze myself by how I am use myself . But it's also devolving eventually . I'm gonna be like that what's ? gonna go it's getting worse . All right , friends . This podcast is brought to you by the intermediate training course . You know what ? This may be the first time I've ever .
Talked about this one yeah we only have it on MP4 for partiality . I am Get it on MP4 eight lessons and MP4 format , 96 page study guide and PDF format 32nd and two-minute promotional video segments . Printable bulletin , printable certificate all that good stuff . What does MP4 mean ? Digital ? That means they can know him pay .
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master or polymer power To the fourth power .
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I believe in the second one , we were gonna do in advance and I don't think we ever did multi-purpose format . Did we do ?
no dance ?
No , we never did ?
I don't think . Anyway , friends , don't forget the living waters mug and the evidence , study Bible , all at living waters dot com . All right , here we go .
Today we're talking about oh yeah , I like this . I'm excited about this one .
Is gambling a sin . Yeah , guys , boy , you know , yeah , guys , boy you know guys boy , you know um that , make a cool rap song .
Yeah .
Yeah , guys , boy , you know um how much you want to bet .
Easy is going to Talk about gambling on this podcast .
Yeah , I bet ten bucks .
Whoa better's , better's . We do . We say that a lot , don't wait , I bet , I bet , I bet , you know .
I'm gonna parlay that bet . Why don't we say I , what's the other ?
under that easy on the next podcast , will read a comment about himself . What is it ? It's like that llama inside that cartoon . What is it ? Emperor's new groove ?
Seriously , you guys have to admit that's a pretty cool noise . No , it's when someone says something stupid .
I really don't think God created humanity to do things like that .
I'm pretty sure Rachel would not have said yes . Why did we give him a microphone ?
I don't know who gave you to him . Oh , I love this microphone .
So , guys gambling as I was going to say , look at the tangent you guys took us on for like two minutes over on my guys' well .
No , Mark brought up a good point . Who's betting ? Should we bet as Christians ? I mean , would you play poker for just the beings ?
Yeah , so we have to define gambling here . Yeah .
Would you play poker with pennies or matchsticks or would you go to bingo ? Would you play roulette wheel ? Do you do raffles ?
Right , those are all good questions , I think .
Well , my intention in talking about gambling and those all apply is that , yeah , when you're putting money up , you're going to places where people are gambling casinos , or you may even be gathering with friends , but like you're talking about , like you're putting up money , you know but I do think it's also a good question Like are there gateway ?
You know gambling games or formats , even if they're maybe lesser , are they wise , are they not ? This has become more and more , I think , relevant to talk about because it's grown more and more Sports betting , especially Right . I mean , it's become huge yeah .
Now I hear people talk about $4.3 billion industry . A what $4.3 billion industry ? Wow , Just online sports betting . That doesn't include gambling .
We're not talking about vagus , I'm sure with that no only online app .
Sports betting is a $4.3 billion business . Okay .
Does that include fantasy football and all that ? Yes , I have zero idea about that stuff Like what's that about Justice will ? Do you know it , ray ?
No Fantasy football Are you really You've never played fantasy football before .
I mean , I hear people like you is it you predict no , I've never played it , but you predict certain teams are going to win and you predict their story . Yeah .
No . So you I mean it's kind of how do you explain fantasy football ? So you have a draft and everyone drafts players onto their team and , depending on how that player does that week , he scores you certain points and then your team of players go up against another person's team of players and whoever wins wins the game that week .
But fantasy football doesn't have to be gambling Like . My wife is the commissioner of our church fantasy football league but they don't put up any money . It's just like everyone comes over to our house and they we draft together and you know we could have fun together throughout the football season .
Yeah , and let me say as well , friends , I'm sure you guys know us by now enough to know that there are times we'll discuss topics that we haven't really hashed out between ourselves , and we're going to have different views and perspectives , and I think that's healthy .
I don't agree with that .
That's horrible , that's great . So I don't know where I mean , I'm pretty sure I know where Mark stands . I mean Ray stands . I don't know where Mark I can tell you , ray stands Right there .
Over here I'm going to ask . 20 years old , a friend of my uncle took me to a casino with Sue and we are just newly married and I felt the power of that one arm bandit .
He just gave me some coins to put in how much sheep did you lose ?
Yeah , I wasn't gambling sheep , but I felt the power of I just I was addicted instantly . I absolutely loved it . I thought this is scary .
Yeah , well , you know , there are people .
and the reason again why I said it's so prevalent I wasn't a Christian at the time .
Yeah , you mentioned Oscar . You know fantasy football or online , what do you call it ? What's ? It called Sports betting , sports betting , but that's just one aspect , right .
I mean you have now like and this is I mean it's probably been 20 years and however but this whole thing of like professional gamblers , where now you have it's televised and it's like a sport .
Like poker , poker faces , yeah , yeah .
Is that what you're referring to , like Texas Holden poker , whatever ?
Yeah , and that you've got people that are going to casinos that are radically addicted . I mean , to me one of the saddest sites is to see these people sitting there like for hours , and the airports too .
You get to see the driver .
They look so
¶ Gambling and Its Moral Implications
unhappy .
Seriously , as I say it , I get the same feeling I get when I go to a baseball game . I want to die . I'm just sitting there pulling pulling I mean it seriously just like in a trance , in a smoke filled , disgusting stinky casino , like that's bondage man .
So let's take a step back , that you think you're right , and let's let's answer the question is gambling a sin ? I think , even if we might come to different perspectives and I don't know , we actually might all come to the same perspective .
The one thing I think we need to recognize is that the scriptures don't give us a direct answer to the question is gambling a sin , Though it in you can , you can conclude , you can come to a conclusion through scriptures on how to how to go about this situation . It doesn't come to a direct one , and that's important because this falls well one .
Like Ryan Kelly says , sin is that which violates God's biblical commandments , not the conditions and inventions we make as soul scripture . Christians are minds , wills and hearts are directed by God's revealed will in the scripture alone . And then RC Sproul goes on to say that the problem is we .
He says we must be careful not to make that subtle move from a passionate concern towards a godly morality which includes legalism . And so we do have to be careful here . There are different people who have different views , and John frames book the doctrine of the Christian life .
Surprisingly , I love John Fram he argues that gambling is often wrong , but not always . He says that gambling can be linked to the worship of chance . It can be addictive . It can involve covetousness , it can be a waste of time and money . It can be thought of as a substitute for useful work . It could fall under the control of organized crime .
So , while although Fram doesn't think of gambling as sinful in and of itself , he says that the circumstances around gambling often lead to it becoming an issue of sin . That's how John Fram would discuss gambling . That's how he frames it . That's how John Fram frames it .
Oh yeah , and I'm so glad you said that , oscar . Look , I tend in my personality toward being very stringent with things . That's how I am with myself . I'm a pretty black and white kind of guy . I've grown over the years . I've loosened up a little bit in certain areas . You're more pale now .
Yeah , I know I can definitely tend toward legalism if I'm not careful , and years ago I taught a message on integrity and I talked about integrity of conscience , of conduct and of convictions .
And it's so important because , even in a way where we may be leaning toward something that may fall in line with what's more conservative , we can lack integrity because we're only not doing it , because we're worried about what people within our circle will say If we do it , because they don't do it or because that's a conclusion they arrived on on issues of
conviction , you know . So we really do need to be careful . It is easy to paint with a broad brush . Everything within me wants to say gambling is a sin . That's where I would want to lean and say it is a sin , absolutely have nothing to do with it .
Why would somebody say that , like , why would you say that ?
Well , I play devil's advocate . Yeah , absolutely . The reason why I'm prone to want to say that is because of the associations that are connected to it Good , and because of the destruction it has done in the lives of so many that are associated with it . I lean the same way with drinking . I want to just say Christians should not drink .
Now , I say that with full knowledge that scripture obviously there's alcohol in scripture and you know , there's no question . Again , there's some we've talked about it before lightly on the podcast where there's some that will say , no , I mean MacArthur would hold the view that no , that the fermentation was not what it is today .
You had to drink gallons in order to get drunk or buzzed . Others have different perspectives on that , but whatever , I want to lean that way because I look at the associations and I say , guys , we live in a world that is alcoholism is destroying people . It's so associated with how people destroy their lives . So I just want to say no .
And then there's wisdom attached to everything that you just said Absolutely , absolutely .
But that's where I want to be careful , though , because I can veer off into an area where I ought not to which now becomes legalistic when you're telling other people that they can't do it .
Exactly . I love your self-awareness in that , because there are so many people that are not self-aware .
Like to create standards and disciplines for your own self is one thing , and I see how your disciplines like you're one of the most disciplined people I've ever met in my life and I can see how it has done well for your spiritual vitality , your walk with the Lord but it's so valuable .
I love the way you're able to stop short of implying that as a demand or a standard on other people . I think I struggle with that often and I fail .
And I have to work at that , because I think part of it is my flesh too . There are so many elements that can be disguised as pure righteousness , but they're not , and I do tremble at the thought of trampling in other brothers' liberties .
There's a sin , there's a serious sin associated with that , and so there's times where I've had to repent , even in my conversations , of just saying how could they do that ? And it's like I have to stop . Paul gets into that , and it was over very serious stuff . You're talking about things sacrificed to idols .
You're talking about dietary issues , which back then were massive things . So you're talking Romans 14 . Yeah , so I think it is important to be careful .
I think one of the most freeing scriptures is Romans 14 , 21 , 22 . Happiest here that condemns not himself and that thing which he allows , and he's the ISO identifier with you . You've got to pull the reins in when it comes to your standards and other people's standards .
They may have the liberty to sit at a gambling casino and have a glass of whiskey and appraise the Lord's t-shirt on .
I certainly wouldn't do that , so I was listening to the podcast . Right now he's talking about me .
Yeah , we have to be careful of those appearances of evil there's no doubt about that , especially with people in different positions of leadership . I personally do not drink alcohol . I don't drink alcohol for many different reasons , but one of those top reasons that I don't drink alcohol is because there are weaker people .
There are people that can look into my life and go well , if Mark can drink well , then I can drink , and I have no idea what they're going through . And I don't need alcohol . First of all , I don't need to relax , I don't need to slow down to that capacity . I typed into a chat .
Gpt Define Gambling for Me and it said gambling is when you bet money on something uncertain , like a game or a race , with a chance of winning more and more , but you might also lose the money that you bet . It can become a problem for some people If you lose .
If we talk about gambling right , a problem with gambling , compulsive gambling let's put it in a proper perspective that there is a overwhelming urge to keep gambling , despite the toll that it can take on someone's life , either financially or with your family .
You know , if you find yourself wanting to go over to your friend's house to play a game of poker as opposed to coming home and discipling your kids , you may have a problem .
If you find your place of release needing to be well , I need to have poker night with the guys more than my child needs to be picked up from soccer practice , you may have a problem . But we do take risks all the time , right ? I mean , if we drive the LA freeways , we are gambling that we're going to get to the other side .
But we just need to put them things into their proper perspective because you grab ahold of somebody like Phil Ivy . He's a world-renowned poker player , right ? I looked him up and it says that , as of 2023 , he has earned $38.3 million playing poker . His net worth now , because of endorsements , is $125 million .
When he enters into a poker contest or a championship and gets into that place , it's been said that he can win a tournament without ever once looking at his cards , because he's reading the people , he's seen how other people are responding and reacting , he can say well , wait a minute , you're gambling millions of dollars .
Yeah , I've become an artist in the way I've read people , something that you and I don't do because we're not in that position . But how would we possibly and I don't know the guy , obviously , I never met him- you may be able to look him up on YouTube to see what he does . Yeah , but it's like how can we blankly say you cannot do that thing ?
When you play the stock market , you're gambling with money . Stock market is very different than gambling , though , but you're using money , hoping in what way ?
Well , one , stock market is not a zero-sum game . In other words , a zero-sum game , there's a winner and there's a loser , and in gambling there's a winner and there's a loser . The stock market is an investment . It's not a zero-sum game .
You're investing in assets that are real and tangible and that grow over time , and the 20-year average growth rate of the stock market is somewhere between 7% and 8% .
But it depends on the stock .
No , no , no , I'm saying the stock market , I didn't say the stock , I said the stock market , so the S&P 500 , over a 20-year average is between 7% and 8% , depending on what 20 years you look at . In other words , if you invest your money in the S&P 500 , you're going to make money over the course of 20 years .
What about stocks in ?
general . I mean , I'm generalizing stocks for that purpose , but let me shift it a little bit . So I do think it's really important . Because I used to be in finance , I know that there is a difference Zero-sum gaming is the primary difference between investing in the stock market and businesses versus gambling with poker chips .
But I would say this to go back to the idea of gambling I think that we have to recognize five different things that I wrote down here . First off and this kind of gets into stock market versus gambling First off , we have to understand what God means and intends for us on a mission of work .
So work is given to us by God and he has given it to us to to order or to reorder his creation . This is what Adam was supposed to do in the garden . He's intended to till the garden , to reorder it , to plant , to create beautiful things that nourish and that do good for both ourselves and
¶ Gambling's Moral Implications and Considerations
the people around us . The city right Like we are supposed to reorder . There's a difference between a reordering , which is God's intent for work , and using chance , as John Fram said , using chance to make money . I also think that the other thing that we need to take into consideration is the difference between stewardship and ownership .
As a Christian goes and he sets down money to bet , he needs to recognize that he does not own the money he's betting . He's a steward of the funds that God has given him . So are you gambling with God's money ? That's an important question that you have to ask yourself .
The second thing is is the difference between a get rich quick scheme which the scriptures tells us clearly how it feels about that versus long obedience , the discipline of hard work and saving money ? I also think we have to recognize that gambling is a sickness on our culture .
So when we lift up and praise guys that make $120 million not saying that you're doing that in any way , shape or form , mark , but those guys go beyond just making the money that they make . What they do is they set a precedence . And gambling is a sickness man . It's created massive poverty .
A significant amount of sex trafficking is linked to the gambling industry . There's alcohol addiction . The gambling industry is a plague on American society . Is the mafia involved in that ? The mafia has absolutely been involved in the past , and so there's that as well .
We have to consider the plague that gambling has in our society , and then the last thing is the money that you spend . When could you use it to be more generous ? We have an issue of generosity in the world . We have an issue of poverty in the world , so could we be using that money for the glory of God in our generosity ?
Let me just say two real quick things . The first thing is when I was in the investment industry , gambling was a major issue for guys that I worked with , guys dropping thousands of dollars a week on sports betting , on parlaying , going to Vegas . I remember a guy coming back and we're like man , I just lost a Honda Civic this weekend .
So that's because they were making it , didn't know what to do with it .
They were making and losing it right . What does parlay ? What does that mean ? I don't want to get into the details . I mean it's basically two different bets that work , that have to work in tangent with each other . With all that said , I'm going to have , I'm going to .
This isn't so much of a confession but , like you might think , oh well , oscar clearly thinks gambling is wrong here . I think that we have to be really , really , really careful and we need to consider these five things . With that said , let me also be really transparent with you .
Just last week and I feel like I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't say this , just last week a neighbor inviting me over to a poker game at his house .
It was a $10 buy-in and I went , and I went because I , in my mind , I'm going and I'm spending $10 to hang out and be a witness to these guys , the relationships that I can build with them , the potential to share the gospel with them , which I got to do with one of the guys Clean the mail . And I walked away with all their money .
I actually did win , but the point is I didn't go like man . I really hope I come home with this or I'm going to go with 10 and I'm going to be spending 100 . I looked at that as the cost to enjoy my time and fellowship and be a witness to these people . So to me it wasn't a bet , it wasn't a gamble . It was money I was spending .
I just happened to get some of it back .
Listen .
And what is the difference between somebody who says I want to spend $10 , raise it to $20 , to go to a poker game with my buds , as opposed to somebody else saying you know , I don't want to do that , I want to go to the movies and I want to go to Chipotle or whatever and spend my money that way , and both people at the end of the night are saying I
had a good time yeah .
Yeah , and some can say and when you go , if you're limiting yourself to $20 , you may even walk away with more than that . That could be an investment . Whereas if you go to the movie , it's gone right . But you know , whatever you may be getting other benefits if it's a redemptive movie with a good redemptive theme or whatever .
But I think others on the flip side would say well , the difference is there's an addictive element to gambling and it can be . It can be something that hooks you into things totally go deeper .
But I think , greg , I want to ask you this Don't you think that the right thing to say is gambling and other things like gambling , maybe drinking , whatever can be sin ? Not necessarily , but it's not a question are they sin or not ? But they can be if certain elements are attached to them .
Yeah , certain elements like , generally speaking , greed is the disease and gambling's the symptoms . There's greed behind it . I want to make more money , but it is a matter of conscience . You're right , and that's all I've got to say .
Yeah , and I think caution right , because and I'm going to read some stuff from people that we respect that would beg to differ . They think it is something that could be more explicitly sinful .
But I think we need to think through passages like First Timothy , 6 , 6 through 12 , where we're told and we read this on a recent podcast about contentment , right , we brought nothing into the world , it's for certain . We can carry nothing out .
Having food and clothing with these shall be content , but those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men into destruction and perdition . For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil .
So the first thing you ask yourself , I think , in that realm , is this a form of me loving money ? Is this a form of me seeking to get rich ? Like you gave a good example , oscar , I'm putting in a $10 thing and this is what I'm doing with my friends .
Again , that's why it's important for us to say , okay , you know your circumstances , you know yourself , you know you don't have a problem with it , like if you were a guy who said to me hey , I'm going to go do this with my friends and my neighbor that just asked me over and you were , before you came to Christ , a chronic gambler with a serious problem .
I'd say , brother , I don't recommend that , because I think the problem oftentimes within Christianity is we don't infuse the element of wisdom in the things . It's always . Is it right , is it wrong ? I mean , someone seriously can give the example of hey , where does it say in the Bible that you can't live with your girlfriend and sleep in separate rooms ?
Where does it say that ? Right , I mean it doesn't . We really cannot find any place to say now , well , we'll recite a form , every , avoid , every form of Appearance of evil , right , okay , but well , you could apply that to anything or whatever but use discernment . But there is wisdom . And now we look at that we say no , no , that's a danger .
You know you need to , and so we can apply that to situations like the one I just gave . You know you have to ask yourself .
Can you do it in faith , right ? Yes , whatever's not in faith is Sin . Scripture makes that very , very clear . So the question real , simply answered Is gambling a sin ? It may or it may not be . It depends on the scenario in the situation . Yeah , that's good mark , right ?
22 , speaking of Jesus on the cross . It says they divided my garments among them and for my clothing they cast lots . That speaks to me of those soldiers being absolutely callous . Here , here is . Here , is Jesus writhing on the cross . He doesn't exist . All that matters is my gambling , and the Christian should live in the shadow of the Cross .
Yeah , we , we know the cost of our redemption , so everything I do is in the light of that cross . Am I pleasing God by doing this ? Am I going to Vegas ? Am I gonna go to casino ? I want to gamble . It's my life , I'll do what I want . That's not the attitude of Christian .
Exactly , and that's often the problem . You know , this is where you see liberties going in a direction that violates a law of love . Yep , you know I mean think of a . Paul said if eating meat makes my brother stumble , I'll never eat meat again . Look , that's big . You know that's in and out .
Whoa never have a double double again if it stumbles your brother , right .
You three , stumble me with you in an outing . Why'd you point at me when you say you're married ?
I should have said weiner schnitzel . Well , yeah but , but you know it is the issue , because that's what's happened . Unfortunately , people flaunt it . Yeah , okay , some people have their liberty to drink , but they're posting pictures of themselves doing it gleefully all the time . You know , they're just .
It's like it becomes , it begins to define them and they have the I don't care attitude . Hmm , and that's that's dangerous , you know .
Yeah , so it's not my problem . Yeah , problem . What is that saying ? A lot , the lotteries attacks on people that are poor at math .
Yeah , yeah , yes that's a good one . Yeah , and and again . What's what's behind that ? You know um Proverbs 28 20 a faithful man will abound with blessings , but he who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished .
And you look at casinos . They're so lavish and it's they're just saying you can't win with us , but yeah odds are stacked against you . Yeah , yeah .
Yeah , so and and again . Man , this is such a good discussion I could . I could do this like a two-hour podcast .
Please don't keep it rolling guys .
But no , I'm just saying because we have to be careful of the flip side of that .
The person with their liberty Doesn't look at the person who says I'm refraining and begin to judge them as oh you're , you're a legalist , or you're just , you know You're you're just too uptight or you're too man to have it , to have it between you and the Lord and to be free in your own conscience and to do it . There could be so many reasons .
I love for us to not , you know , question each other , but to look at the grand scheme of a believer's life so good . Does this brother sister love God , and is it evident that Christ is foremost in their life ? Do they exude the fruit of the spirit and the fruit of love ? Are they kingdom-minded ? Are they preaching the gospel ? Are they ?
And if the answers are yes , and then it's something that scripture doesn't explicitly forbid .
I'm not saying you can never , if you see it , as you know , being something that Maybe is affecting other areas of their life , to say , hey , man , you want to think about this , or just pray through it , you know , like humbly and gently , but oh , you know , generally , to be able to just say , man , have that between you and the Lord .
I think I think a good litmus test to be able to see where you're at with gambling is are you okay with never gambling again ? Yeah , are you okay with never going to that poker game ? And unundoubtedly right . Oscar , you say that you wouldn't play this book . I would ask you are you okay with never playing poker again ?
And undoubtedly you'd say I have no problem with that . I also think .
Where's your hope ? Yeah , like think about it . Where is your hope ? Is my hope going and walking away with a hundred twenty dollars ? Because that's because then I'm gonna be able to go buy this cool thing , or because that's how I'm gonna pay the bills or get groceries . Where is your hope ? My hope in that situation was to Fellowship .
Yeah , was to meet somebody and show the gospel . You know what I mean . It was camaraderie . My hope wasn't in the game and the
¶ Contemplating the Realities of Gambling
money . My hope was in the people around the table .
Yeah , absolutely yeah . And like again , having said what I just shared about not judging each other For me on a personal level , I've decided I I'm not gonna do it . I've played poker with you know some friends at different points , but there came a point where I decided I'm not gonna do it anymore .
And the reason why I'm not gonna do it is because , first of all , I have my children watching and I know that the next generation will typically take it a step further and again , I .
You guys may not have concluded that , and that's awesome , you know you , maybe your family dynamic is different , you think differently , but for me I've decided when I envision my sons as grown men gambling , or my daughters , I don't want them to do that because I know there could be snares for them there .
I may be able to handle it , I may be fine with it , they may not . Same thing with alcohol . I used to drink before I got saved , so that's part of why I don't as well . But I also have the same mindset . I don't want my , my sons , to do it . That's why I don't smoke cigars . I have lots of friends that do and and you know I just have decided .
You know what I don't want my kids to feel justified and do that . Maybe that'll lead for them to vaping , maybe it'll lead for them to marijuana , maybe . So I envision my son smoking cigars . I just think I don't . I just don't want them to do that . I don't . I'm worried about where they met . That might they , that may take them , you know .
But other friends of mine do not think that way . They don't feel that and I have to be able to say praise the Lord , not even question it , not even let my mind go there , but have my own conviction before the Lord joyfully does that make sense ?
Yes , that's very sensible . Great . Some of us said no . Alcohol is the only enemy the world has succeeded in loving . Wow , someone once said that it's very deep yeah .
Okay , now let me .
Let me go to other side note yeah , funny story hey don't say fun story .
You've raised the ball .
I have a very mediocre story , that's a you mean one of easy stories less sound effects . My son , who's 12 years old the other day , was like dad , so at his school they've got Burger Bucks , and so you like , if you do , you know . If you clean the room or you stay after whatever , the teacher give you a Burger Buck and that Burger Buck , you know .
With five Burger Bucks you can like buy a desk pad or buy a new pencil .
Do they gamble with those Burger Bucks ?
Yeah , Oscar , do they gamble ? So my son Levi , he's a genius and he's always very entrepreneurial . He came to me . He's like Dad , I have an idea . What do you think of this ? I'm like what do you got ? He goes okay , I'm going to have everyone , all of my friends , give me two Burger Bucks and then I'm going to pick a winner .
And if I get 10 friends give me two Burger Bucks , that's 20 Burger Bucks , and I'm going to pick a winner and one of them will earn 15 Burger Bucks . That way , I keep five and they keep 15 . And I was like you just invented the lottery . That is hilarious .
You just came up with the lottery . I love Levi man .
He's one of my favorite little guys . What did you say Go for it . This is how you do it . This is how you win .
I gave him the branding mythology , the whole thing , excel spreadsheet he's so funny .
So on the other side of this , we have our two brothers , John Piper , John MacArthur , and both of them the Johns .
We like to call them .
Both of them feel a little more strongly about the realm of gambling , and I think they give us some good points to really consider and to think about in terms of those of us that are in that realm and especially those of you that have an issue with it , because if you do , you need to repent , you need to walk away from gambling , you need to never go
toward gambling A good list , miss Tess , if you have an issue with it , if you're married and your spouse has spoken about concerns of you gambling man , just stop .
Yeah , you know what I mean . Just stop . That's a bad sign If your spouse cannot trust you as it pertains to this habit . The Lord has given you your spouse so that you can become more like Jesus , and they probably see something in your heart . They have some sort of loving concern for you that you should heed . Say that .
And if you have no , and if you know you have no self-control , and if you have an addictive itch where you cannot be at peace if you don't do it , those are problems and you need to walk away from it . You've now been mastered by it .
So MacArthur says he believes that gambling is built on 10 sins Materialism , greed , discontent , exploitation , lazy lust for entertainment , distrusting God , pain for work and careful planning , irresponsible stewardship , failure to meet the needs of your family and failure to love your neighbor .
Is he against Allah he ?
loves it . I think , in all fairness I listened to a clip . He's probably saying that these are the things that it can lead to , these are the things that really are the foundations for it , and so you have to be careful . John Piper said
¶ The Serious Discussion on Gambling
look , we have one life to live for eternity in the glory of God . Of course , what else would Piper say ? So what are we doing with our time in that regard ? He says in gambling , oftentimes the unreal is desired more than the real . We're in this fantasy of getting all this money and we're just caught up in this whole fake world .
He said sometimes it's a blinding fog . He was answering a question from someone who said hey , I only spend up to $50 a week on gambling . And Piper just paused . And he goes $200 a month , just gone up in the smoke . He says think of what , the seriousness of that , how we lose that sense of that's . I mean he talks about the average income of people .
In most countries it's not even $200 a month .
It's a quarter of a million dollars in 10 years . Yeah , and he was adding that up .
But if he's a winner , imagine the time .
I saw this . There was a group of pastors . I watched a video just in research and they were like talking about , would you take a tithe from someone who won $100 million in gambling ? They're like , yeah .
The deal has had it long enough .
And then there's a desires to be rich , which again first Timothy 6 , like we talked about , and then he reminds us it's God's money , first Chronicles 29 , 14, . But who am I and who are my people that we should be able to offer so willingly as this ? For all things come from you and of your own . We have given you . It's God's money .
We touched on that earlier . He ends with there's vastly better ways to find joy through how you use your money . And he talked about investing and he got it actually into the stock market . And he talked about how he saw that as different than the blind chance of gambling and , like you said , the return . You can get your money back out .
But there is that element and he makes a good point . He says anything is a risk with your money . You bury it in the ground , it could rot . You put it in the bank , it's like collapse . You know whatever . There's all kinds of elements , but I think you know , I think those are all good things to consider .
And off to Vegas we go .
Can you imagine we finish the podcast , we throw out .
It's funny . I had a marked deck of cards many years ago and my friend , drew Davis our friend . I said , drew , I don't know what's going on , but I just feel like something's happening to me . I just know what is in a card and he goes what do you mean ? And I pulled out a deck of cards . I go , shuffle them , shuffle them .
I laid them on the table , I started going through my go I think this is the three hearts . And he goes it is the three hearts . And as I was going through all the cards , he's all let's go to Vegas .
I loved it . It's so funny . Yeah Well , friends , let me let me finish with this , this quick exhortation Be a Christian who learns to never be rash in anything in life . Learn to pause , learn to think , learn to research , learn to get counsel , learn to pray and to be thoughtful about what you do .
Honestly , I think one of the biggest sins is the sin of I just like how it feels I'm going to do it and we just rush into things . That's not the type of life that is surrendered to the Lord , that's not the bond-servant life , that's not the slave of Christ life .
And so maybe even in hearing this , or maybe even having seen the title to this episode , you didn't want to listen , because in your heart and mind , you're like no , no , no , this I cannot stop doing . If that's you , you're the one who really needs to think about it , because it's probably a problem .
Nothing is worth dishonoring the Lord for , nothing is worth hurting your family over , nothing is worth entering into sin and connection with , and so I just encourage you to think through that . It's a serious issue and one we need to prayerfully think through , research , examine and get counsel on .
You're not going all serious , are you ? No , thank you for joining us , because I got a little laugh track here . I wanted to play as waiting for you to say something funny . I'd be waiting for you to say something funny , oh well you know , we're just gonna have to turn it off .
Well , friends , this has been a very interesting one . Like I said , we could have gone on and on , but we did it . Don't forget the enemy training course , podcasts of Living Waters , mug and the evidence study Bible , all livingwaterscom . Hey , keep liking five stars , surprisingly , after almost two years . It's almost unheard of and it's because of you guys .
Two years yeah , almost two years I was trying to figure it out the other day it's been two years .
Yeah , it's almost two years , it's still at five stars .
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Thank you for joining us , friends . We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast . The ultimate cure to insomnia . That's clapping Ray , not laughing . It's not laughing . We're going to have to work on your timing . We're going to have to work on your timing . Here we go . Oh , dear One star .
Yeah .
See you next time , friends , or maybe after this . We won't .