Hi, I'm Francesca Rudkins and I'm Louise Area and this is season four of our New Zealand HEI podcast Little Things Good to have you with us, And this podcast we talk to experts and find out all the little things you need to know to improve all areas of your life. And today we're going to cover off our mental and physical health and how to have a good laugh or possibly cry as we try and motivate you to hit a trail.
So if you're at all interested in putting on some trainers and hitting out the door for a walk or run, or better still doing it on a trail, or you're already enjoying the benefits of running but you want to step it up and tackle on an event, than this podcast is for you.
Those of you who have been following us since season one, you'll know that lou and I met when are now eighteen year olds where it can do together. Our joint love of exercise in the outdoors is only one of the reasons we're friends. But it sure has taken us on some pretty crazy adventures, isn't it Sometimes in that excellent role direction, Yeah, it's totally very much so. I mean we've always been really active over the years, Loo We've done boot camps and boxing and training. We've kind
of tried everything, haven't we. We've sort of been there and done that. But then things kind of changed a little bit when you came up with this brilliant idea to walk a hundred k's for the ox Fan. Yeah, was the odd span one hundred kilometer walk.
It really didn't seem as long in my head as it was when we did it.
We had no idea what we're doing when we decided to do it, which it was amazing. It was an amazing adventure. But the one thing that we realized we got from it was that we'd both grown up enjoying the outdoors, but lives are busy, we're working, we've got young kids. We hadn't really kind of been out there much, and all of a sudden, we were spending days, literally days walking tens of yeah and a lot of kilometers, and we were like, this is amazing, this is fantastic,
this is just we just loved it. But then we both were like, when it was over, we don't really have the time to be walking all day in the bush. And then you came up with your second grade idea. You've had more than two ideas, but within this context, and you went, hey, there's this thing called trial running. We should we should give it a go. But we didn't actually really know that much about it.
Oh my gosh.
And we didn't actually realize when we entered our first half marathon event. I think it was about what was it right? Yeah, it was twenty one. Yeah, it would hill, what it would entail.
And how different it is to running running totally.
Yeah, it's so much more that you know, the terrain is completely different, so it's more exhausting for the body, but also you're just going up and down all the time. I think the third that would hill. I think we came in third and fourth to last. I think there were a couple of people behind us and they were about seventy.
Five years old.
Do you remember when we turned up and I were literally we were packing up these up there event was over, they were literally packing up. And also one person gave us a little clap as we crossed the line.
I point out there probably were seventy five year olds in front of us as well. Yeah, but the trail running is really amazing because there are the likes of us new bees edit and plodding along and wondering why everybody's walking up the hill? We're going for a run, aren't we? You know it's no, no, no.
I always walked, you always ran. You're always like, no, no, you've got to run. No, you don't.
Yeah, because my psyche was running, running, running, and that's not how trail running works. And then of course you've got the young guns just flying past you, and she's just like, how do you even do that? Look, we were hooked, won't we absolutely? And we found lots of different ways of doing it. We fast pack great walks now, which is when you sort of walk run one of the great walks and do them in a couple of days and things like that.
What do you love about it?
I think it's the company first and foremost the nature. It's getting back to those things that I did do when I was a kid. You know, when you're a child, you went for a bushwalk with your parents, you you know, they go at the walk behind talking with their mates and we would just tear through the bush and having a ball, playing games, all sorts of things. It kind of I think that's what it brings back for me. And it's quick because I'm really impatient.
It's kind of quick. I mean, we've got to make it really clear here. We're not amazing athletes. Please don't knock up any of our times because we undertake all this in a bid for a good time. Lots of laughs, Gosh, we laugh. We do like the core medals and maybe a personal best. But these adventures can be really fulfilling in lots of ways, can't they.
Yeah, and I'm you know, I'm all for a tramp as well. I think that there's lots of fun. But I'm not a gear person. The thing I loved, always loved about running was it. All it took was a pair of shoes. And okay, so now I might throw five kilograms on a backpack.
We like the gear, it's just different. It's just not lots of gear. No, I like really cool, light, effective gear. Yeah, I don't like buying it, but I like it.
No, I don't. But the other the thing is, and we've talked a lot this season about all the different things that we know are good for us, and everybody keeps on telling us. Time and nature, right, connection with a friend, early morning light, if you get out there on the trail first thing in the morning. You know, you start to see regulars, you get your morning light, you get your nature. You're ticking off three your health
goals before you've even sort of started the day. So we want to share the joy today of getting out into the bush with you and convince you to take on a new challenge. But we know it can be difficult getting motivated to take on a new physical challenge heading into middle age, as our bodies are changing, are we still up for it? We've certainly noticed some changes over the years, just a few.
So we have got the perfect guest today. Kathy Duffy is an extraordinary trail runner. She runs marathons, ultra marathons and milers and yes, that is one hundred miles. She's now coaching with the team that she ran for mile
twenty seven. She's got a Bachelor of Human Movement Science as well as other qualifications in this area, and it's particularly interested in making sure that women feel safe and comfortable when it comes to running, not only that they achieve their goal, but to train with consideration of hormonal impacts during various stages of our lives. So we are humbled to be joined by Kathy Duffy.
Welcome, thank you, thank you very much for having me. I'm very excited to be here and get this party started.
We are very excited to have you with us as well. Gosh, you've done some extraordinary races. What would be the toughest that you've done?
Without a doubt, I would have to say the toughest has been the one hundred mile races that I've done, And I probably don't need to explain that to the audience because one hundred miles is a very long way. The longest I've done is forty nine hours over one hundred and eighty one kilometers, and that experience is transformative, to say the least. It's an exceptional experience, and I
guess it's what draws me back. It's a very unique position to be in, and you learn a lot about yourself and you take what you learn in an ultra out into your life and it's something that I hold very very dear.
So is that why you do it? Why do you do it?
That's a great question, because you're like, that sounds crazy, So why would you do it? For me? It's probably more about an evolution. I was very fortunate to find a sport, and for me it was trial running, which I absolutely love and it brings me a very high level of peace that I think you need in our life and we need in our lives as busy women.
And the evolution of the sport meant that I was running longer and longer and longer, and it took me quite a while to even consider doing that one hundred mile distance. But when I committed to that one hundred mile distance and then experienced it, it just provides a moment in time that's so precious, Like life's very busy, and when you start to push your boundaries, regardless, everyone's boundaries are different, but for me, it was that one
hundred mile difference. And when you push your boundaries, the busyness of life fades around and you're only focusing of that one moment in time. And the further you push into that and exhaust yourself, you get to this really interesting space of emotional vulnerability that opens up your heart in ways that I hadn't experienced before. And I'm not
sure if this makes sense. If you've done the longer distance, it may may not resonate with you, but it's an intense experience and you'll often see it the end of you know, a race finish line. There's a lot of emotion and it's just the culmination of the build up of the journey and this eruption of the emotions that you feel. And I think that's why I do it. It just is amazing. As I said, that eruption of emotion and what you gain from that experience, it just
spills out into the rest of your life. And I want other people to feel that, like it's quite the journey and the race is the icing on the cake. But it's that buzz that I love. I love the journey and I love the icing on the cake moment.
When we were doing our first trail marathon was the Tara where a trail marathon, and the last fifteen k's I wasn't hugely prepared, probably when it comes to nutrition and hydration, and we'll talk about this a little later. And I about three four k's before the end, I was standing on the side of the trail literally hugging a tree, telling Louise that I was going to die. I was having a heart attack and I couldn't finish,
and I was so hot. Can you remember this, and you stood there very patiently on the trail because it was another hill ahead of us, and we were just likeing to come on next, you know, And I really in that moment didn't think I could do it, And obviously I was going to do it. I knew somehow deep down I was going to do it. And we did finish. And I know exactly what you mean that finish line, that just knowing that you can hit a moment, you can sort of get to that hurdle and overcome.
It is interesting how that then in your life you go, this isn't so hard, this isn't so tough. I can keep moving forward. Yes I can keep going.
I feel like you could. Yes, you feel like you can do anything after that. And I love your story about one needs that nice calm friend, don't they that can help talk you through and get you through. But to me, I see these events as problem solving your way to the end, like something will happen. And for you in that Tarawera, you were pushing your boundaries and you hit the wall and you were faced with the decision and you needed to problem solve your way to
the end and you did it. And that is just the most amazing thing that you can do. That reassurance, that confidence, that fight, that spirit in you, Like, that's a special gift.
I think. The only other time I would say that I've actually felt that is actually childis it's that kind of you've got to get to the end, you've got to push through, you've got to stay calm, and you do go kind of inside yourself quite quite a lot. And I don't think it.
Matters whether it's forty two, one hundred or ten case, to be honest with you, like at the moment where you know, we're going up every Saturday morning and doing a tin k and it's mostly walking for various reasons.
But you know, it's not that it's not that we have to dig too deep for that one, but it's the sense of achievement of having gotten up early on a sad day, gone and done it. Hit this quite.
Nasty hell that's on the way yep, and yeah's seen some regular folks and just know that everybody out there is doing it for the same reason.
For that peace of mind.
Yeah, you can't underestimate the achievement in that and the impact that has in your life, Like because it is a choice and we are busy, and it's sometimes difficult or it can be very challenging to carve out that space for yourself and your own well being. We all know. I've I've been through it. You go through different seasons of your life, and I've got two children that they're grown now, but it was definitely times where it's hard to carve out that space. But I think we deserve it, jeez,
we deserve that. And I think that if you can carve that out and you can pop your shoes on and you can spend time in nature, whether it's walking, running, crawling, I don't care. If you get out there and do that for yourself, that's a win.
In my books, really keen to talk about how people can start trail running. It's become hugely popular. Actually, just in the introduction, we're talking about that first trail run we did where we came pretty much last, and then as we got more experience KFE, we look we'd kind of go, oh, we're kind of in the middle of the pack, or oh, we're kind of narrow the pack
and our age group we got really excited. But it's actually dawned on me now, Lou that it was just getting more and more popular, and there are lots more people doing it. I don't think actually people necessarily getting better. It's just we were used to it and slightly fitted the new people started. Well, I'm going to give us
more credit than that. I think we were getting technically better because it is it is a little bit more technical than going for a run on the pavement, right, so you do have to start scanning and working out where you're going to walk and where you're going to run and all that kind of thing.
Look, it is so if we're talking about somebody who's keen to get into trial running, and we're targeting I guess the conversation at beginners. Look the similarities with running around your streets. You have to know where you're going and you have to keep safe, right, So that's the same for when you head on the trail. But there is another component that you need to consider because trail
offers I guess, some unique challenges. The environment can be very different, the weather can change, so there are some safety considerations that you need to take on board. I'm a big advocate for being very aware of where you're going to run, and you can go on the internet on national parks, there's all trails apps, there's council sort of sites. I use Strava. I don't know if either of you Strava, but for those out there listening who don't know what that is, look, I do pay for
a subscription and I'm not affiliated with them anyway. But you can go and see on there and you can see exactly where people run and the darker the blue line, the more people have run that, so you know that's a commonly run trail. So things like that can help you kind of work out where to run. And you need to understand, I guess, the risks in your environment. So for me, I live in Australia, so there's things like snakes and you know that I need to consider.
Weather's another thing you need to think about. The weather can be much more dynamic out on the trails. In one moment, you might be down in a valley. The next moment you might be up on a ridge line, and especially over in New Zealand, the weather can change very quickly depending on where you were. So I don't
want to overwhelm anyone. I think it's a good idea for people to know that you just start small, you start with what you're comfortable with and just be reassured that you will grow with what you need on the trail as your training evolves. So my training when I started was just little outbacks on fire trails, and then I gradually got more and more adventurous, and then I met some people who I could then run with them, and then I started to learn about what gear I
needed to take. So it's something that's really quite exciting to learn about. And you don't need to start big and look at the end. I don't most certainly don't want people overwhelmed.
And if you have done a little bit of road running, Kathy, and you think to yourself, oh yeah, I can, I can run five k, don't presume that you know five or ten k and the bush is same as five or ten k. Like, don't get despondent because they're not the same, are they.
That is a very important point there was So my story. It's really interesting in that back on Yuesday in twenty twelve, I went for a run just to set the year in a good sort of, you know frame, and in that run this thought comes to my head, where this year I'm going to run a marathon twenty thirteen, I'm going to run six foot track. Twenty fourteen, I'm going to run Ultratrau Australia or one hundred. So I don't
know why I thought that. I didn't know how I was going to get from A to B at all, I didn't know anybody who'd done that, but I kind of locked in that plan. So I did my road run, so I was a road runner, and then all of a sudden, I thought, Okay, now I've got to do this trail of it this six foot track, which is forty five kilometers through about two thousand meters of climbing. So I went to my local trail. It's about four and a half kilometers. There wasn't much climbing, but it
was very technical. And after that I went back to my husband and I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to do this. I can't even hold six minute pace. I just had no idea about the differences between that there are two different sports, so you do need to take that into consideration. But as I said, if you start small, you will start to learn how you move and flow over the trails, and you'll start to learn that hiking's okay and you're going to use different speeds.
It's just like one big fartlek session, right like speed play. And then you'll start to learn that, oh, okay, this is technical track with a lot of climbing. So I've done ten kilometers on the road in about an hour. I've done ten kilometers in the bush that's taken me six hours. So those are the kind of things that as you learn and grow. Was a trial run, you'll start to understand that they're two very different sports.
Yeah, that's what took me by surprise. Francisca was more prepared than I was. So we did that first half in the trail and I went, what is everybody? Why is everybody stopping and hiking up this hell? And I was determined to run past them and didn't. The second hell, I was like, oh, I get it.
You can't do that. The hells are going to keep coming. Yeah, we hadn't anticipated that. Trail running sounded lovely. We were going to run through these beautiful valleys and gentle trails, and then every event we did, we're like, oh my god, there's so many hills, and then it occurred to us that's the sport.
Yeah, but that's really important for people to understand. I was very fortunate in just before I did my first kind of trial race, I met a lady Natalie, who's now a very close friend, and she'd done everything that I ever wanted, and she took me under her wing and she taught me everything. And I'm so blessed that she entered my life because my learning curve was so
much faster and steeper. And that's why I really want to help women in this space on their journeys, because you know, just a bit of a helping hand goes a long way. But I remember going on one of those early runs with her, and the interesting thing was we came to it. I won't even call it a hill or a mountain, It was a bit of an incline and she started walking and I was like oh. And I remember saying, oh, so would you do this
in a race? And she's like yeah, And I'm like, ah, So I had this permission, in this freedom to start to understand that that's what tr running is about. It's getting from a to B in the most efficient way you can. And whether that is running or hiking, it doesn't matter. Even the elites hike, even the elites hike, so if they hike, we need to include that as part of our training as well. Right, it's important.
Yeah, the power walking up hells when I did a lot of training, if I had didn't, you know, to power walk up hills, there'd be times where you'd be jogging beside.
I know, I was just thinking about that. There's a times that i' I'm going to jog this and Franships is just walking beside me quite furiously.
Yeah, Hey, Katy, if you if you are doing a little bit of running or you have hit it out and you've gone it to you, I'm quite enjoying a five or a ten k, and I'm really loving this time in the bush. If someone then goes, Okay, I want to step it up and I want to do an event, and I want to try and get to a half marathon or a marathon, where do you start in your thinking?
Well, firstly, excellent because you've got to be surrounded by like minded people. And the trial community is amazing. And some of my really good friends I've met through doing events and I now run with and we support each other. So I think it's really exciting. That's that's a way to start developing your support networks and your resources, and if you're in a lula, you can ring up you know, Luise or Francesca and hey let's go for a run. But yeah, to answer your question, I think it's good
to pick an event that speaks to you. You because you want long distance running and running can be hard, so you want to pick something that energizes you, that gives you a bit of a lift. When I chose my first one hundred mile race, everyone was saying wow, like that's ridiculous to choose that. Forear first one hundred mile race. It was through the Victorian Alps in Australia, and it was more of an adventure course than a running course. It was crazy hard, over ten thousand meters
of climbing. Damn it just it's something spoke to me. So I think you need to pick something that lights that little fire inside of you. I think is very important because you're going to dedicate time towards this event. But the good thing about picking an event is it provides a sort of direction for your training, right, So you want to obviously learn as much about that event as you can. You want to know how far it is, what kind of terrain that you're going to be running on.
Is it a fire trailer, is a technical single track? Do you want to learn as much about the as you can? You want to learn how much vert or climbing or descending there is, what weather you will experience, and all that information is what's going to guide your training now. So you're not just training to just get fit and be able to run and tick that box I've done my three or four one hour runs in
the week. It starts providing direction for your training. So an example is I know Kepler Over in New Zealand is about sixty kilometers and two thousand or just over two thousand meters of climbing, but I know most of that climbing is in that first third of the race, and then you've got this really runnable two thirds at the end. So when you start evolving your long run, you'll start to think, Okay, I need my body to cope with the climbing, but I need to be able
to run because it's a running race, right. So your long run one weekend might start to work towards more climbing and descending. Then the next week you might want it to be more runnable and you might be alternating those. So see what I mean. The difference is it an event starts to provide direction for your training, and then the event is the icing on the cake, which I
alluded to before. The training is the fun part, you know, you sort of get to tick all these boxes, you get to feel a sense of achievement and strength, and the race is sort of the icing on the cake, just as the reward for all your hard work. So I'm excited if anybody is sitting here and they're starting to think maybe I should do an event.
I mean, we've been doing this and off for thirteen years and you've just actually the opening's just dropped about how to train. We did the Keepler as a fast pack. It wasn't the event, but we did it over two days instead of the three or four days it might normally take. But we had to because of the weather. We had to be flexible, and we had to change the direction. So we didn't have that climb at the start.
We had that as a descent, but we did have a nasty switchback on the way up, and I hadn't trained for that, to be.
Honest with you. Kathy Louise some times, benest Luise sometimes imagines things are going to be different than they are, even when I tell her they're going to be the way they are. We did talk about the incline there. We did we did actually do some work.
I oh, no, totally. We did the cameras a billion times.
We did.
We actually did a lot of work for that.
I just wasn't counting on that.
Yeah, no, it's and actually that's something we should bring up. If you want to be a trail runner. It's not just about the running. The strength work is really important, isn't it. Kathy.
Look, definitely, strength is a big part of it. But there's no doubt that if you want to be able to run long distances, you need to be able to run right. You need to get that level of volume. But you also need to provide your body with a strong foundation now and I think that's important through all stages of your life. But it's equally so much more important the older you get. I have to be honest, I didn't do any strength work for a long period
of time. I had ten beautiful, eleven beautiful injury free years in all my running, and I was running about five times a week and it was great, and I've done so much, and then I reached that point in my life, which I guess you know what I'm alluding to, where the hormones start to shift and there's different stresses on your body, and I started to get my first
few niggles and then injuries. So that then led me to learn about, well, what's now happening with my body, what's changing, what do I need to know, what do I need to do differently? And I think one of you mentioned before about having flexibility with your training, So that's when I've included strength work, and I think it's very important. There's different ways to do that. Find a way that speaks with you. But for me, it's going into the gym and starting to lift a little bit
heavier as well. For me, I'm separating out the two things. The strength work is a strong foundation, but I'm doing that for the benefit to my bones and muscles and they're not specifically kind of runner type actions. So that's the difference for me. It's like there's a different focal point for the types of things I'm doing in the gym.
But yes, strength is very important in terms of I guess your longevity in the sport and because you know, our body makes us do what we need to do and we need to kind of look after and make it as strong as possible.
You're listening to the little things. And our guest today is Ultra marathon runner and coach Kathy Duffy talking about the joys of trail running. We'll be back after the break, Kathy.
Before the break, you were just saying about strength, and I had an injury at achilles niggle and I went to this particular physio and all over the reception area is great kind of posters and things about being strong for what you want to do and being strong as you age. And the first thing the physia said to me, which was mortifying, was this injury has occurred because you're not strong enough to be doing what you're doing. You're trying to ask your body to do something it's not
strong enough to be doing. And since then it still took me another couple of years because that's just me.
But now I love my strength training and I notice I haven't had a niggle out of that ankle. It was so painful for so long and just doing the correct you know, building up the muscles around it to support it. I suddenly realized the connectivity from my feet to the top of my head.
You know what I mean. It's crazy. How can I get to fifty three and only just realize how my body works.
Well, I think you're not alone, Luise at all. I think that it's very common, and that is similar to my experience. You know, nothing and then sort of hamstring and then torn planet of fashion and then an ankle injury. So it was all of a sudden. It's interesting you kind of live in this body for so many decades and all of a sudden, your body it just seems like different. And when you're speaking about those posters, I think in the last few years, I've developed this motto
where its function over face value. I pride how my body functions much higher than how it's actually looking, if that makes sense. So that's that's what I continually tell myself, is how do I want to function when I'm eighty, you know? And if I can't do some of those
things now, I need to really address those things. And from a running perspective, running is very repetitive, especially when we're doing road running, because most of us will do most of our training on roads or local sort of ovals and things like that with just a small portion on the trails. But it's a repetitive sport that does put stress on our body, so we need to strengthen it so we can function as well as we can as we age. It's a longevity issue as well.
Let's talk a little bit about keeping keeping active as we age and sort of hit that perimenopause and menopause stage.
And I loved.
It before we started this podcast, you called it the glory years with a smile on your face, which actually I like, I thought that was very positive approach towards it, even if it didn't mean it, you know, even if there was a little bit of psychasm in there. I'm not sure you've kind of mentioned how we can be more prone to injury, but there's a lot of things that can kind of that the female middle age athlete
might come across. I mean, it can. Does it become harder to maintain and build and look after our muscles for example?
Short answer is yes. So the longer answer is there are a lot of things that are happening in our body behind the scenes as we age. And I know that you've both done some really great podcasts on menopause. You've had the Queen doctor Stacy Simson as well, and she's amazing, And I do encourage people to go back and listen to those because there's a lot of extremely valuable information in those. But first of all, I want women to know, regardless of the fact that they're aging,
is they can absolutely still do anything. Aging doesn't preclude you from doing amazing things. I'm training a woman in her sixties at the moment with her ultimate goal of doing one hundred mile race. I know I've got two other friends athletes who are doing their tenth UTA one hundred. They're in their later fifties and they're going for a PB. So think about that. So they started in their forties, they're in their later fifties, and they're training to go for a PB. So anything's possible.
This heart press the hope for us, and I.
Most certainly haven't changed my goals as such. My goal is to be the best I can be. Now that may look a little bit different as I age, but that's still my goal to optimize and maximize my potential. But there are some things, yes, we need to consider, and you mentioned muscles, so and I don't want to go into a big education around menopause because you have
already dressed this in the past. But the just people need to understand the impact of sort of fluctuating and then withdrawing hormones is significant, and people need to know that it's a head to toe condition and it's not just about impacts your reproduction and hot flushes. It's a head to toe condition. So the really good examples you've mentioned muscles and bones. They're very dynamic tissue. They build up,
they break down, they build up, they break down. As we're in this kind of transition around menopause, these things break down more than they build up. And we don't have estrogen to help build our bones and keep our muscles as strong and powerful as they can be. So
we need to train a little bit differently. And doctor Simms is great sheeese, As I said, I think you had a training and menopause thing, but you need to think you need that external stressor plus your protein dosing to now do the best that you can for your muscles. And we've already spoken about strength. So you might be going into the gym to lift heavy, you might be doing hit training, pliometric training. It might be if you're able to add that to your training schedule, that's great.
If you're time poor and you can't add it, it might be appropriate not to do that fifth run, to swap it out for one of those strength sessions, because you need this external stress. You need a different type of input for the same level of output that you
had before. So things like that are really important. And that's what caught me heading into peri menopause is I didn't now have this different stressor to maximize my muscles, and then I started to get some of these niggles and then injuries, and hence it led me down the path of kind of going to the gym and doing some different type of training. And that's a big one. And as I said, it's important in all seasons of your life, but it's particularly important at this stage of your life.
I absolutely loved that a whole what you've just said, And if you need to rewind and listen to that again, you've just really hit the nail on the head for
just sort of encapsulating exactly what happens. It's harder for that the muscles to puleting faster, it's harder to build it up, and I've got a personal bug beer at the moment on social media about women sort of heading back at with a bit of a whiplash moment of I don't want to eat my protein, I don't want to have all scottagecheet that, don't want to go to the gym, I don't want to blah blah blah, do what you like. But this is happening to your body regardless.
And if you want to go and do something and enjoy it and not be injured, you know, no, there's just not anough. There's no one there to pick you up except for yourself at the end of the day. So yeah, I really enjoyed that. Thank you, You're welcome.
It's interesting because the body starts to change a little bit. I'm having to deal with I've had a knee problem which has led to a lack of consistency and exercise, which has led to a little bit of excess weight around my tummy, Cathy, And it's really interesting how it audious builds and then it suddenly makes it harder to move and more difficult to move. So I'm reversing that. I'm starting with getting rid of the gart and like
I'm coming back to being able to be. But you know, you can hit another wall, a slightly different wall than what being on the trail of just having that motivation and feeling that you can kind of get up and do it as well when you hit those middle age years.
Yeah, there is a lot coming at us, isn't there. Like the person that we knew for so many decades is now like a bit different. It's like we're having to kind of relearn ourselves. And as I mentioned, menopause is a head to toe condition and as impacts to our brain, which can infect like our motivation, we could have new onset of depression, anxiety, and things like that. The way our metabolic, so the way we use glucose and things can change which can lead to that weight
changes and that sort of weight around your belly. There's all these things going on. And I was having a recent conversation with a friend who's a sports dietitian, Sylvia Feffer, and she said something to me that just went in my brain, And I'm going to tell you what she told me. She said, you need to disentangle performance goals from body image. Now, when I say that disentangle performance goals, from body image. What do you both think?
I don't know. I sorry, say it one more time.
Disengage, So disentangle performance goals from body image. So whilst you're thinking, I can let you know what how that resonated with me. So if I disentangle, if I separate out, So you're talking about my body looks a little bit different, and it will over your lifetime when you go through puberty, if you have children, your body will look different. And this stage in your life is no different. And especially
let's add on aging as well as the impacts of hormones. Right, So I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, oh, I'm carrying a little bit more around my belly. So body image and how I perceive that. If I just pop that to the side and I look at one of my performance goals. So my performance goals at the
moment are there's a race I'm targeting. So I need to train sensibly, need to have good recovery, I need to have quality nutrition, I need to do my strength, I need to get sort of sleep in I can if I'm doing all the things to maximize my performance. The irony of all of that is your body will
end up the best that it can be. So focusing on your performance goals and doing everything you need to in that space and the right things for your body optimizes I guess the physicality of your body, which then flows onto the mental side as well. And I think that the issue when women start focusing on is this belly weight or I don't like it? Aside from looking at the performance goals, is what do women typically do when they're concerned about their body image and want to lose weight.
We stop eating as much and we stop giving our bodies the right nutrition.
Yeah, you calorie restrict you might get obsessive about exercise, and those two things will actually exacerbate the impacts of menopause. So for me, that disentanglement of the two, and it ties into my function over face value is what what do you want to achieve for yourself right now? Where do you want to be? What's important to you? And my body will be what my body will be. And I am so I'm so proud of what my body
allows me to do. And yes, I'm a fifty two year old woman who's you know, got decades and decades worth of societal pressures on me to look a certain way, and I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm constantly reminding myself that it's okay where I'm at because I'm doing, as a fifty two year old, far more than what some twenty year olds you can do, and I'm proud of that.
It's really, it's really, it's a great way to put it, because I didn't really become terribly consumed about my weight until it became a health issue and it stopped me doing what I wanted to do. So in a way, that's the same thing. It's kind of like, oh, actually, so what is it you want to do? Okay, get on with doing what you need to do, and the other that side of it will come, you know. So it wasn't so much that I was conscious of how
I looked. It was more that it was it was having health implications and stopping me doing what I wanted to do. Yes, so it's yeah, so oh coursh isn't that interesting?
Hey?
Look, Kathy, really quickly, as we're getting older, should we be doing more rolling and stretching in our agemes and things like that? Does that make a difference?
Well? Interesting? Look, I have to admit I'm probably the worst at that, and a lot of ultratrail runners aren't the best at rolling and stretching. And I think the science probably is a little bit not too powerful in terms of pointing towards the benefits of rolling and things like that. But I think when I think sorry, I think when I think of stretching, it comes back to that functional side of things, and as I age, it's it's important that I can move freely, and I need
to be able to move freely over the trails. So there are some functional movements, and I know in our sort of with our coaching, there's some sort of functional strength type movements that can be concluded in your program. There's another app leos moves that I signed up for recently, which is these really functional, but they're stretching with strengthening because I watch strength through that range of motion as opposed to me just sitting there and just bending forward
and stretching out my hand strings. So I'm kind of more looking for functional strength over the range of motion, if that makes sense.
Yeah, the sterets are good. Yeah, we had a fabulous session with her and the Built to Move They've got some amazing stuff and the for functionality opening the hips. Yes, kind of thing that can reject.
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
Yeah, Hey, what about risk days.
I think rest days are very important, and I think it's a real important part of understanding your body and what you need. And I also think it's an important part of your training regime because it allows for all the adaptions from all your training to kind of take hold, rather than you constantly putting these stresses on your body,
because training is another stressor. And I sort of shifted some of my training along the way, and I started training in the afternoon because I was opting for the sleep because as we know, during kind of perimenopause, sleeping can be a challenge. So sleep became more important. And then I shifted when I trained. At the moment, I've as I mentioned before, five days a week running, I'm actually doing for it at the moment, but too are
on trail. Too are on the road, so that and the trail ones are slightly longer, so I'm getting the same volume, but I'm getting an extra day of recovery. So recovery is very important for all athletes, especially athletes as they age, and I think people need to give themselves permission and understand that it is a very important part of your training, and sometimes it's a better decision to take a rest to day than to soldier on if you're so fatigued and your body is aching, just to tick that.
Box beautifully explained Kathy.
It's just been wonderful to have you on the podcast. I'm totally motivated. It's almost like we're starting again. Luise, you kind of you've motivated us again. And what you have achieved and I'm sure will continue to achieve, it's just extraordinary. It's amazing.
Look, I love this space and I really appreciate the opportunity to have the discussion. I think it's really important for women to know that you can do that. It's very possible. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. Start small, find your tribe. We can have more conversations and let's just you know, build up the women in this sport that we love so much.
Yeah, I really do think midlife. Maybe it's like me and playing golf. I don't know, but I do think midlife is a really great opportunity to start the stuff. Really, we were forty when we started.
Oh me too, I was. I was forty. I did well. I did that road marathon the year that I turned forty, and so yes, in my forties and fifties, i've been doing ultra trails. No, it's possible.
That's great, Thank you so much. I love Kathy, so do I.
She's so amazing. But I did think to myself, we both started trail running at the same time, Louise, Okay, not you and I, but you and I and we al said to.
Have alway done one hundred mile. Yet it could still happen.
It could still happen if I can get my right nef I could just get my right knee sort of. Who knows, but I feel really positive about that now, me too about It's like set of goal.
Just go for it.
Think about it too long, it's just do it.
I have to make a phone call when I leave here because I think I just said to you last week that I've been working out quite a lot. I'm seeing little changes, and I keep and my son is my coach, because he's a strength and conditioning coach, and I have been saying to him, can't you see a difference, can't you see look at this muscle, look at it. And he's constantly going, I don't care about what your body looks, like I care about what your body can do.
And I was like, yeah, and everybody, you know, everybody wants some credit for and he's not going to give me it. And he's dead right, because I should be disentangling my body from my performance. So yeah, I'm making that phone call when I leave today.
He'll be thrilled to get that. Yeah, his mother telling him that he was right after all this time. I loved Kathy's message that anybody can step outside the door and start something new, regardless of our age and stage. Might be a few more things to have in the back of your mind and to think about if you're heading into middle age. But it's absolutely doable. And women are so good at endurance, especially when they.
Get oh yeah we are. That's a really good point. And I think too, you know, like I said on the intro, like we just keep being told nature, light movement, and you know, if it doesn't matter, if it's not for you, that there are parks close by you can do. You know, you can walk in just perhaps don't do your normal walk around one tree. He'll maybe just go straight up the hill, try something different.
Find it convinced A like minded friend to join you, because company always makes it so much better and you can kind of support and motivate each other as you go along, but also to have I'm god, if we laughed, we have laughed, we cried and wet our pants, and the wh we have, the places and the and the places we have seen and done and been and everything that's been amazing. And thank you so much for joining us on our New Zealand Herald podcast series, Litle Things.
We hope you share this podcast with the women in your life so we all feel motivated to start anything new that we want to achieve at any agent stage exactly.
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