On today's episode so that they would do the same thing with their children . But I also in my whole life have had , were blessed I should say blessed but the dearest friends of ours , oh , yeah , yeah . And our children had several grandparents that weren't they're legitimate grandparents , but they called them Grandma and Grandpa .
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources of my grandparents , but they called him issues and more . Join us now for Life Challenges . Hi and welcome back . I'm Krista Potratz and I'm here today with pastors Bob Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson , and today we have a very special episode to bring to you .
We are going to be doing our Mother's Day episode and we have a very special mom here with us today too . Today we have Helen Fleischman , as you might note , I know our audience is very smart and intelligent . Fleischman is Bob's name here , so we have Bob's mom in the studio here today recording . And welcome , helen , we're so glad you could join us today .
Thank you , I'm excited to do it . Good , good , we particularly want to do this episode to talk about moms , and Christian Life Resources does a lot of work with families and with moms and the home for mothers and everything , and we really just wanted to shine a spotlight on motherhood today , and so we just we're excited to have you with us .
I think maybe a good place to start here is if you want to just tell us a little bit about yourself , if you maybe knew that you always wanted to be a mom , or just a little bit about your background and journey into motherhood a very large family .
My parents had seven children and the last three came a little later in life because my parents got divorced and then she remarried , and when we immigrated to the United States I was 16 , and my youngest brother was one year old and the second one was two years old and I had an eight-year-old sister .
So those little boys were very attached to me because I have loved children forever and ever and they have both grown up to be good young men . However , they've passed on since then , and when I met my husband , I met him shortly after I came to America . When I met my husband , it was love at first sight .
He was shy , quiet , so I figured well , that way I get to do all the talking . That was a bargain . And the second one was we both loved children and we talked about it .
I met him at a dance and I had two of my brothers with me because they were fabulous dancers and I actually taught dancing in the Netherlands , so he walked over to us because he could hear us speaking Dutch . When we came to America none of us knew a word of English , except maybe yes and no .
So when we got together on our own , so when we got together on our own , we were always talking Dutch and he walked over to us and I've never forgotten this .
He asked me if I was Mexican . Yep , I could see that .
Now I'm lily white , not looking Mexican or anything . So I said no . I said you know , we're from Holland and he thought that was the coolest thing . He asked me to dance with him three times and then he brought me a flower that they were selling there and my oldest brother was getting nervous . He said you're not going home with any stranger .
I said you're right about that , because I probably will never know what he's saying to me , that I shouldn't accept or anything . But he walked me out and then we just walked a little ways away so that we could talk to each other as best I could , and then he asked me if he could see me again .
I was actually working as a nanny , taking care of children which I loved . So I said , well , if you like , you can kiss me goodbye , and I heard his knees knocking . He was that shy . But then at the second meeting we were talking like we were going to get married tomorrow morning . We were talking about he asked do you like children ?
And I said , oh golly , yes . I said I want to have seven children when I get married . We came to our senses after four , especially after we had Bob first . That was just an outstanding experience for me . And he was in the service , which I didn't know .
He didn't have his uniform on when I met him , so I didn't realize that he was in the service , so I wasn't sold on the uniform , like so many girls did . And when he came to visit us I wanted to introduce him to my mom and dad . They were very strict that I always introduce a boyfriend to them . And then we all went to the same dance .
But my brother was driving and Bob and I were in the front seat and we were in a car accident and big , great , big trailer truck head on and the car that we hit had two children in it which , thank the Lord , weren't killed . The people weren't either children in it , which thank the Lord weren't killed .
The people weren't either , but that was very , very scary . But I did have a cut in my knee and they had to stitch that up and everything . And this was the second date . Yeah , that was on our second date , okay .
And my mother always said the two of you had the love knocked into you when you had the accident , apparently , but Bob and I both went through the windshield , but Bob was not hurt at all . So , anyway , then he started coming every weekend , so that worked out okay . And then we actually only knew each other six weeks and we got married Wow , six weeks .
So , and thanks to my husband , I became a wealth Lutheran . I was baptized Catholic , but my parents never went to church and we never had a Bible in our house . So I have really enjoyed that . I was so excited to hear what I heard and I was always a willing learner about things you know .
So I did a lot of work in the church , always that we were in and everything that my husband was in , I was in , and we were the perfect team .
So how old were you then when you got married , and how old were you when Bob came along ? Bob Jr was 18 .
You were 17 when you got married . You were 18 , when I was born .
So you were 17 when you got married , 18 when you had Bob . Yeah , and so he came .
We were so excited that we had our first three children in four years . Wow , and there was a question on here what was the hardest part of being a mom ? Yes , yes when all three of them had the flu at the same time . That was the hardest . My husband worked 12 hours a day and I was always alone with the kiddos , you know .
Mm-hmm .
But yeah , that was probably the worst time I ever had . And our number two son was a little bit of a challenge . You had to really hold your thumb on him . But I never believed in telling daddy , telling the kids , when daddy comes home , you're going to get it . I thought , what daddy wants to come home to that I can take care of these boys .
I grew up with five brothers .
So you grew up with five brothers , and then you grew up with five brothers , and then you had four boys . Yep , wow , okay .
She was unusually well-equipped to handle the challenge .
A boy mom here with four boys .
Oh , I loved my boys and I still do .
I adore them all , yeah , so you can imagine how giddy she was when I had five daughters . It was a whole different world .
See , and isn't that a typical Bob thing ? I can show you how to do it . Yeah , yeah . So , oh , yeah , wonderful granddaughters . We have 16 grandchildren , 16 great-grandchildren , and number 17 is on the way . Wow , wow , a couple months .
So what do you think has helped you the most in your journey as a mom ?
Well , the first thing , of course , is getting to know the Lord the way I should have had , which I didn't do , and I always talked to the Lord out loud . Lord , help me with this , lord , help me with that . And I want to be the best mom I could be .
I wanted my children to grow up in the church so that they would do the same thing with their children . But I also , in my whole life , have had , were blessed I should say blessed but the dearest friends of Bob oh , yeah , yeah . And our children had several grandparents that weren't their legitimate grandparents , but they called them grandma and grandpa .
Yeah , I think Bob has mentioned that in the past too about you just taking in some people from either the church or the community into your home and that they did kind of become like family to your boys .
Oh yeah , we have a lot of family pictures in which they're not all blood relatives . I mean they were , you know , grandma Fran , grandpa Clarence . I mean they were just , they were widowed or single and pretty soon . They're in every picture .
And I loved taking care of people that needed help , and I still do . I mean , diane is my first concern . I drop everything , but Bob needs me . And just to say something nice about Bob is he's the same way about us . Yeah , I just adore my family and I adore my friends .
I have friends with one lady that's just all over me and she called me this morning and she said I'm going to bring my girlfriend over and we're going to help you get your house back in order . And my husband was a wonderful , wonderful man and we were married 69 blessed years and we were a team . Every day we always had stuff to talk about .
Of course , we had a lot of children and grandchildren to keep us excited , but my husband adored the kids and , even as old as he was , when the little ones came , he always laid on the floor and was horsing around with them .
Yeah , I bet he supported you a lot in your motherhood journey too .
Oh gosh , yes , we were the perfect team , perfect team .
You know , one of the things just recalling . I don't really recall my parents , you know , sitting down telling us to be pro-life or telling us that abortion was wrong or things like that , but rather there was kind of a you know , have us put our hand on your belly . You know and feel a move which really creeped me out , just so that you know that now .
But I just was how old were you at the time when she was pregnant ?
Well , I think I'm eight years older than Dave , so I had to be seven or eight .
I've often said that when I present too , is that you really have to be taught to want to take the life of an unborn child , because I think every instinct is that it's miraculous , it's incredible , it's the kind of thing that gets passed down by example unless you are minded against it .
But it kind of like , I think , because instinctively you know , and family was always big on both sides , and I know both families were hard , you know , growing up in the Netherlands and my dad growing up in kind of rural southeast Wisconsin . They had tough lives and everything but family always meant something .
It was probably played out more than it was taught , you know . In other words , you just presumed . That's not only a credit to the way that I think I was raised , but I think there's a message there for everybody , and that is you don't have to try so hard to teach it as much as to live it yeah .
In your story you mentioned a few things that are not now the way they were then and at your I'll assume 39 years of age .
Now you've had that mothers today might not understand about motherhood , might not appreciate about motherhood Things that you know if you had the opportunity to speak to a lot of mothers at once , or even not yet married women or women who don't yet have children . What are the things that you'd want them to understand yet ?
have children , what are the things that you'd want them to understand ? Well , I think we'll fail to the next generation .
And it happened , because in my book this is how I feel about it People became so selfish that the minute they got married , they'd have a big home and everything in it , and you should see some of the places my husband and I lived in , and we were just as happy as we are in this house . You know that was all we could afford at the time Great .
But and you know , when mom and dad are out working during the day and they come home , you're exhausted at the end of the day when you've got four boys in your house . But I didn't go to work until my children were raised . I wanted to raise my own children and I even took in babysitting .
I babysat for people and I took in ironing and I took in laundry to make some extra money . And I never regretted it because I got to raise my own children and that's what I wanted to do and I thought I don't care how poor we get , as long as we have food for the kids and us and everybody . The rest will come later .
You know , and I was just as happy every place I've lived in . I've lived here . What I love the most now is that I'm next door to one of my sons . We've never lived that close , but in all the years that we've lived next to each other we have never had a bad word , huh Bob .
Well , there was .
Maybe once you got home .
There was that one time .
No , no , it's just yeah no-transcript .
I know Jeff was being very polite about your age , but I often thought one of the most remarkable things my mom's going to turn 87 on Monday .
I haven't forgotten your birthday . You should have never told him .
That was so nice , what he thought .
You just destroyed my whole day . Bad words coming .
No , I mean , God bless both of them .
My father passed away last week and he passed away at 90 , and he turned 90 on Easter and , remarkable , his mind was intact and so forth , and my parents and so as a result , you know , we can talk about things we have to do to manage , you know , to care for Diane or something like that , and it's a normal conversation .
We've been fortunate in that regard that not every family has had , because some have wrestled with dementia in the family or other real difficult diseases to deal with , and so we've been very fortunate and so that's been good .
And again , when they look at your children you know , jeff and Krista , when people look at your children , they're already guessing Is he like the mother or the father ? Is she like the mother or the father ? You know , and more this way , more that way .
A lot of people say I take after my mom most and I would say the spitfire in me is that my dad was always the kind of guy that would go oh , I don't work so hard , you know , you should sit back . I said , dad , you're retired , I'm not , you know .
But that's what he was my mom , but that's what he was my mom going on 87 , is more the kind like okay , what should I start now ? And so in that sense you do it . But you also model that my brothers are actively engaged in all sorts of activities and I think a lot of that , and so we got from my dad kind of a strong sense of family .
You know , I used to tell the story that when I was confirmed I was going to quit the church and when mom had announced that we had to get dressed for church on Saturday night , I announced that I wasn't going to go to church . I'd gone to confirmation class and everything .
And my dad just calmly said in the Fleischman home , we live under a dictatorship and you will be going to church . And that's kind of the role that my dad he would just kind of announce the decrees and my mom would gleefully take on the role of the enforcer .
Yeah , because she didn't have to wait for your dad to come home .
No , she didn't have to wait for her dad to come home . No , she didn't have to . It was kind of more like Susan I was so excited about church . Yeah .
Kids say I don't want to go to church , Like this is not up for option . Yeah , you wanted to go , you're going , yeah .
That makes such a difference , I think in a home too , when you just have two parents , especially that are going to come and say that that's a priority in a family , one of the things . I mean .
It just really hits me too how young you were when you became a mom , and I think that's one of the things we hear today , especially from women who say that they need to have an abortion because they're not ready to be a mom . What would you say to somebody who would say that , that they just feel like they're not ready yet .
Why did you get pregnant ?
I mean they don't have to get pregnant .
Yeah , yeah , and if your decision was that you weren't going to keep that baby . Don't kill it , because it is murder in my book and because I love my children . So I lay awake at night sometimes thinking what is that like To lose a child ?
Yeah .
Well , is it an accurate statement , mom , that whether you were found out you were pregnant with me or you found out you were pregnant with my youngest brother , david , you almost never feel ready ? I know you know , with the five girls each one that would come along in our family , I mean you know it's like we're going to have to adjust .
I mean a lot of people when they think they're not ready , I often wonder if they're looking at the wrong things . Because if you think you're , you know most . Any mother I've ever talked to always says you never , all of a sudden , that feeling of responsibility and everything . You never feel ready .
Yeah , I think the unreadiness is just the name they're giving to fear .
Yeah .
Fear . You know I'm not , I'm afraid I'm not up to this , and they don't realize that they're kind of making excuses for themselves in that sense , and I think too , like just kind of how you were saying , Helen .
Just our priorities nowadays seem like okay , yeah , we have to have the house and the job and all these things before we bring in kids into the world . We just have to do all these things and then we'll have the right stuff and the right mindset to have children .
See , I never felt I had to prepare for that . I never thought about that . I was so excited when I had my first boy . And then the second one came right along , the third one came right along , and all three of them were in diapers at one time .
Oh wow , it's a job that long to be true , why did I feel that coming ?
I'm getting better . I think one aspect of why things are different today is , you know , it's related to the media . I'm not so much blaming it , it's just that it's so much easier for women today who might be thinking about motherhood to just have taken in this idea that everything needs to be perfect that Krista was mentioning .
Okay , we've already got to have the house . We can't be waiting saving up for it . We've got to have that now and in the right neighborhood . And we got to be living where the schools are good so that when the kid gets older he's going . You know all these kinds of things , and I want to make sure I've had the experiences already .
That will then enrich our family , rather than having the family first and then having the experiences together and all of that . Oh yeah , and of course , there are all the mommy blogs and things like that that are all about , oh , this is a perfect motherhood and so this is what you need to aim for .
What advice would you give to women and mothers who really have this mentality that they probably aren't even consciously aware of that ? Everything just needs to be perfect .
I would probably talk to them about it , Tell them how we lived and I never thought about oh , I wish I had this , I wish I had that . I had what I wanted my children and that was our first priority when we got married , Bob and I both wanted a large family .
You know , what was interesting is you guys never were career-minded . I mean , my dad was a lifelong tool and die maker and so forth , and there wasn't this career aspiration I need to keep advancing . We got to the point where you one day eventually owned your house .
By the time we were moving up there , we were all in school already , and as I look back , even to the mistakes I made in child rearing , you do find yourself tricked into trying to make heaven on earth , and so you're always looking for the bigger house and the nicer job and the better career , and I want to see all the sights before this and before all
that happens , and I don't ever remember that being priorities . In our house . We found the pleasure in simpler things .
How did your motherhood journey change from having little kids to having older children ? I mean , because now you're a mom with older boys .
Oh it's kind of nice . It's like having more kids , except somebody else brought them into the world . But I love them and I hug them . I still have a lot of energy for a person my age .
Yeah .
And I actually that's the only thing I've worked on on purpose because my husband was declining . He was three years older than I was and I thought , if he's going to need me to be the caregiver which my husband always said you ought to make the best caregiver . And he always said to me you know , if it gets to be too much , put me in a nursing home .
I said you will never see the inside of a nursing home as long as I'm on my feet . So yeah , the people I love , I truly love , and I must have enough to spread around because I'm loved by a lot of other people .
Well , and the children and grandchildren given a choice would almost always go to my mom and dad first . My grandchildren that live in Iowa . When they came up to visit they immediately , before they even said hi to us , ran over next door to see them .
I'm going to put the best construction on that and say it was a better commentary on mom and dad , it wasn't a commentary on me .
Well , there's so much to love in this world , and if people would just keep their heads straight and figure out how to do that , life can be wonderful . Bob and I had a wonderful , wonderful life . And do I miss him ? Oh golly . Yes , my sad he's gone , oh yeah , but I now want to be here for my children and grandchildren .
I still have the strength to do it and I want to outlast Diane so that I can help her . So I'm not selfish . If my house suffers from not getting everything done , well , sooner or later it will .
Well , when you say that too , about how you're willing to suffer for your health has to suffer while you take care of other people , that just really I think it hits me , just that sacrifice aspect of motherhood , and I think you know , and especially in a world today where we're told that you really have to take care of yourself and self-care is so important .
And you know you can't take care of other people if you haven't really put in the effort to yourself . Here you're saying I'm willing to take care of other people , even if myself fades . It's just it hits differently .
Well , I think that's why God put us here . We're expected to look after each other . Yeah yeah , the very first house my husband and I lived in was a remodeled car train car .
Yeah , it was a train car .
They had made an apartment out of it .
Like the boxcar children . Yeah , that's what I think , that's what we were .
And the first thing I did in that apartment was they had in previous , they had a smoker in there . I washed all the walls in there and I helped paint it and made it look homey and clean . And my husband said are all the Dutch women like that ? I go ? Yeah , they even scrub the streets every Friday . They did . They are very clean people .
During the memorial service or something that we had for dad earlier this week , I overheard you talking to somebody about how your mother , my grandma , saved your lives multiple times because she was mothering you during World War II and I remember during COVID my mom would say to us okay , so we got to stay at home .
That sure beats having to run to bomb shelters . She remembered that and that's what you were saying . Is that a number of times grandma had to sit there and corral you guys up and get you over to a bomb shelter because there was no . Your father had left . And you still , you model again . I want to just emphasize modeling it , and that's what she did .
She modeled it .
My mother was a hero in my book because there was very , very little food and every time the sirens went off we had to run to the shelters . And Carl was little yet , so she used to carry him while running and she always wore a dress . Well , back then women didn't wear slacks and she always wore a dress .
And the whole time she's running , holding onto my little brother , she said don't let go of my dress , don't let go of my dress the whole time we're running , because she didn't even have time to turn around and look and see if all three of us were following . Yet , you know , and that happened many , many , many times .
But I think that created some of that instinct that you have .
Any final advice for the moms out there listening that are maybe going through things , or just any thoughts ?
Well , I would say the biggest thought that is in my mind every day from the time I became a Christian was talk to the Lord when you're troubled . Gather around your friends and be a good friend . You'll have them for a lifetime . I've had friends for a lifetime and it isn't as difficult as people make it .
It's not that difficult , but you gotta pick your priorities and if they're not in the right place it's not gonna work . I've sacrificed a lot of things for my boys , but I never regretted it . You know , if they needed it more than I did , I gave it to them . They came first and they're still that way in my heart .
Therefore , they come first and that's why I'm going to stick it out with Diane when she starts to feel sorry for herself . Then I bring up things that the latest one I brought up that she really appreciated and never thought of was I said you do realize that even with your current condition , you have no pain anywhere .
I said I have seen people that were in pain and that is probably a lot worse than a brain tumor . I said you have no pain anywhere and you know ? I said sometimes you don't feel like eating the next day . You're fine , you eat . So I said keep looking at the bright side , what you still do have . You have a husband that falls all over you .
You got a mother-in-law that's crazy about you and you got a father-in-law who's crazy about you . I said eat all that stuff up , don't sit and worry . I said eat all that stuff up , don't sit and worry . Because , the worst thing she said to me is I feel like I just have to sit here and wait to die .
I said no , no , no , there are still things to do . There are still things to do and things to pray about . I said there are people who are softer than you are , believe it or not .
There is .
And then she says you are , believe it or not , there is . And then she says you know , Mom , you're right . And many days when I leave her and give her a kiss and a hug , she starts crying . She said I don't know what I'd do without you . I said well , you won't have to do it without me , I'll be here .
And I always tell Bob I don't care if the house is on fire or die , it eats me .
I'm going we'll try to avoid that situation , we'll try to avoid the fire well , helen .
Thank you so much for joining us today and thank you for not sharing all the stories I was worried about well , part two well , you're right , I do need you .
So , yes , thanks , and thank you for not sharing all the stories I was worried about . Well , part two . Well , you're right , I do need you , so I better watch my BJTs a little .
No , thank you so much and you know we really appreciate everything you've mentioned today , and we want to thank all of our listeners too , especially the moms . We really appreciate all of you and we thank you so much for joining us , and if you have any questions on this episode or any questions for Bob , just let us know .
You can reach us at lifechallengesus and we look forward to having you back next time . Thanks a lot , Bye .
US and we look forward to having you back next time . Thanks a lot , bye . Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources . Please consider subscribing to this podcast , giving us a review wherever you access it and sharing it with friends . We're sure you have questions on today's topic or other life issues .
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