¶ Building a Successful Carpentry Business
One of the things that stand out to me is culture . I didn't learn it early enough . I wish I did . If you can build a good culture within your team , the return on investment , I believe , is massive . Yeah , definitely .
Good day guys . Welcome back to another episode of Level Up . We are back in the shed this afternoon for another cracking episode . This one really excites me because the young fella we have in here this afternoon is running a very successful carpentry business , which anyone that's followed me for a long time would know .
That's where I got started , so this guy is kicking goals . He's a family man , love these fishing and golf , so hopefully we'll touch on some of that throughout the podcast . He was really keen to come on today to tell his story so that we can hear stories from more of a trade .
He's a carpenters perspective of what's happening in the industry , what goes on out there , and really deep dive into the struggles that he's had through his business .
He's only a young fella , so he's already dealt with a lot , lost his old boy back in 2021 , which created a few few difficult times because he was struggling at that time as it was with business and things . So big warm welcome to Corey Tompkins from Ideal Group . How are you , mate ? Yeah , good mate .
Thanks for having me . Yeah , I really appreciate the offer to come down and get on the podcast .
So I'm pretty sure you were one of the guys that when I put a shout out there that just I said hey , just after some different people to come to the podcast , and yeah , yeah , as I said , I've been , I've been watching for quite a while now .
So , yeah , I think it was . It was literally one of those posts , and then you're a busy man , so once I hit you up , it took you a while to get back , and yeah it wasn't , it wasn't straight away , and then it was like oh , someone get in contact with you . And then I think I persevered and I was like , yeah , I got a good story to tell , I swear .
And then you finally responded and you're like , yeah , someone to be in touch . And then next thing , you know , I'm like my eyes and sitting in the hot seat , so well , man , I really appreciate time .
So it's we like the podcast is . We've just like oh , I know , when this one gets released , hopefully we'll be at 100 .
But we've just cracked 30,000 listeners so and we're booked out for like three or nearly four months now with that's good guess , so that's good yeah things are getting a bit busy , but um , mate , I'm keen to know more about your journey and because I was really excited when you did get in touch with me , because I I take a lot out of the people that are
this podcast and everything that I'm doing is getting to um , and especially a young bloat like yourself , that sort of really trying to do the right thing in the industry . Yeah , um , but definitely super keen to hear about what carpenters are dealing with in the industry at the moment . Cause , yeah , for anyone that follows me , that's , that was my big thing .
That's what I became sort of known for before I was a builder . So , like you've been through some struggles . So one of the reasons you reached out was you said you could resonate with a lot of the struggles that I'd been through .
Yeah , probably not to that scale . But you know , I think definitely in my own way of um , at such a young age I think I've struggled enough , um , not just with business and all that side of it , but personally as well , and I had obviously all together was just , yeah , a mixture for the rocky road down .
So now I'm on my way up and um , yeah , I've been obviously listening to you and you know the stuff that you put out . It might not be the same business model , we might not be doing the same things , but you know , I think that you know it's still resonated with myself and um , yeah , being able to implement some things in my , in my business as well .
Well , I think I think it's important that you've picked it up at such a young age , because you're 27 now . Like , how long has your ideal group been running ?
for . So this ideal group itself has been six years before . Then it was um , I was , basically , it was me and my old man . So , um , I was , I was with him right from the start and that ran right until I was . I think I started out when I was 16 . So , um , yeah , it was basically just with him and yeah , it was a .
It was a good , it was a good journey , but , as I said to you a while ago , it was um his wrongdoings and my lessons . Um , he turned a blind eye to financials and , you know , the tax and all that sort of stuff that comes with actually running a successful business . Um , all credit to him , though I'm not .
You know he was a really good chippy , really good builder , um great family man . Um , couldn't have asked for anything else like from a dad , but um , yeah , the business side of it was something that he lacked . And . I could see it happening as well , so it's a common story isn't it .
Like I don't , um , like I know my old boy is probably similar Like I don't know , like there's , for some reason now , industry , I'm not sure why , but , um , there's a lot of trades out there that are not doing the right thing , like paying super or a work cover or understanding that what they're getting paid they got to take tax , whatever it is .
But , um , because it creates a lot of issues , doesn't it ?
Oh , massive amount of issues . Like you know , I'm a lot better now . You know I can . You know , when a bass bill comes in , I'm not literally going to sit down and have a heart attack or I have to relax , Like I'm like all right , we've got to cover it , it's fine . Like I don't , I don't really sweat it anymore .
We're in the early days , you know , especially when I was with my old man because I was looking after the books at that time and I think that's you know . I learned how to do the accounts and bookkeeping and bank feeds and like all that sort of stuff is , you know , speaking to accountants and um , all that .
I learned how to do that when I was working with him and every time we'd get a tax bill , it was always because you get in , like where's this money going to come from ? It was like that's what it was . Like you , know we'd have work . you know we'd all everyone that he worked with loved his work and everyone was happy .
But if I , if I said to him like you need up your price a little bit , yeah , can't do that .
So so what ? Like it always um makes me curious . Like I was no different , Like I got into carpentry because I love carpentry . To be honest , I was probably a bit naive , like I didn't even really consider the business side of it .
Like I just thought you go to work , you get paid , you get an account to do tax , like yeah , everyone else , like someone else , will tell me what I need to do . Yeah .
But you , you've obviously got in the industry a lot longer after I did Like when you've got into this industry , like what were the steps that you had to take to get to where you are .
Basically , just just um , looking and learning really . So it was , um , I had a lot of . I was I'm thankful because he had a lot of mates that were doing quite successful as well . Like they were , like I could tell from the outside that they were doing well . You know , some of them are concrete or some of them are painted , some are plasterers .
Um , so , looking from the outside , I could sort of , you know , I could sort of see what they were doing . I didn't . There was no book , there was no , you know , there was no one really there to like , mentor me and be like , oh , you need to put this away for this and put this away for that . Um , it was just a lesson over lesson really , um .
And then I think , when the penny dropped , um , when basically he fell out of touch with the trade , um , you know , and I said to myself that I still love what I do . So when I started up , when I start up again , I'm going to do it right .
Um , so you know , I'm not going to even though it might hurt to , you know , cut into the cash flow but , you know you pay your taxes , you pay your super , you pay the boys what you need to as per fair work . you do the right thing and you hope at the end of the day that you got some money left over .
Yeah , cause there's so much to know , isn't there ? Yeah , I guess . Because you don't know it , you're not asking the questions . Yeah . So you're not really getting the answers and it's snobles and like obviously , as business grows you earn more money , the the hold is gets deeper .
Yeah , and I think one of my . So I went , so I , you know , did my , did my apprenticeship , did all that um was a trade for a while . Then I went out and did my diploma of building and construction . I was going to do my sort for , but um , one of the teachers there , he's like , listen , if you do this , it could lead to this .
It covers the search for as well . So , um , yeah , and his name was Steve , and you know she had Steve , like he was , you know , very switched on , felt like you know , um , he taught me a lot . Yeah . You know , in regards to contracts , my obligations , um , and just everything in life .
Really , you know he was sort of the one that said like pay , like don't be the guy that doesn't , that doesn't pay your boys what you said . You were going to pay him . Like don't , don't be that sort of person , because you know it doesn't take long for the word to get around .
And then you know you'd be one of those guys with your hands up screaming that I can't get anyone , I can't get anyone . Yeah , so uh you ended up getting your bills last , didn't you ? Yeah , so I had my bill this last for a few years now .
Uh , it's about it's going on four and a half five years now , so yeah , but you're still like you're , you're doing company work , like that's your business .
Yeah , you're contracting , so I did so , uh , started out obviously just doing bathrooms , decks , pagolas , as a contractor for myself , and I had an apprentice , um , and then , yeah , like he say on your podcast , you know , you can , you can , you can literally , you know , it is the truth , you can literally get your builders license and go out there and sign a
million dollar contract and that's what I did . Um , so you know , and that that there comes lessons in that . So I want to bring that to the table and you know the . So what's , what's some of the lessons you've learned ? Yeah , um , misquoting . Yeah .
I misquoted , like the biggest thing off the top of my head was so this particular house had a turntable at the bottom of the driveway , jesus you didn't start off with an easy one . So I am you know we're not talking a few studs or a window here and there Like we're talking .
I missed the whole turntable and everything associated with the power of everything . So , um , and it was a relatively large you know this client , I earned a Range Rover , so it was a relatively large turntable . Um , you know , shout out to the clients I could I still keep in contact with them now . They're great people . I finished the job .
Um , the house is beautiful .
Um , so how did that pan out ? Like so you , you obviously had to pay for that Like yeah , yeah , so it was .
this is one of those lessons . It was I at the time I didn't realize that I'd missed price to the end . So we were coming towards the end of the job and I was went over my Excel spreadsheet and um , yeah , I was like it doesn't seem right . I'm like I've missed something . I was like there's got to be , there's got to be some money left after doing .
You know , I think the contract at the end was 1.2 . Um , I said there's got to be something left . Surely no , there wasn't anything left . So I went back through and I was looking at the line items like trying to see , and , sure enough , you know I fully missed this like
¶ Misquoting Lessons in the Construction Business
$45,000 turntable that I've just paid for .
So you know , I had the hard pill to swallow .
Do you go to the client and say , hey , listen , I need you to get another $50,000 and give it to me , or do I copy it on the chin ? And you know , keep a good client . You know , keep them Cause . You know I feel like , yeah , it's $50,000 , but you know , if you , if you keep them happy and you do the right thing and you wear the lesson .
There's probably a lot of other things missed in there , mate . If it's a 1.2 million , you really should have 300 grand covering your overheads and business profit and company profit .
There was a lot like and this was one of those things . I had my builders license for about 18 months to two years at that time and I was sort of friend like the architect that was designing that house . He designed the house that we had in Mooringside at the time and he just said to me one day he just said hey , listen , do you want to price up ?
Do you want to price up this ? And I don't think at that time . I don't know if you would want it .
I don't think you were doing socials at that time either . So , like you know , in hindsight I'm like I wish I had the info that I have now .
But yeah , like it was . It was one of those surreal moments where he said that and I was just . You know , that was low documentation , like I'm talking about preliminaries , you know .
Made it , like I'm glad you've told this story about , because this is made . I could tell you 50 of these stories .
So , what ?
like I remember my so yeah , like everyone's heard , like I was contracting , I got my bills , license , people wanted me to do work straight away and , like we were potent , million dollar homes within a couple of years .
And and we like wasn't just one or two like we , we had multiple , I think within sort of three years we had three or four years , like we had an eight million dollar turnover .
And one of my most common mistakes back then , apart from not having a clue what my overheads were and company profit and things was , I was just misquoting , like your story of just told , like happened to me dozens of times and so we . It took us years and so what ? We started developing a list .
Every time I'd miss something , we'd make sure we're adding these things to the list on the next job . We never missed it . But then that grew and like it grew into a list of hundreds of categories and items .
And like not to be a sales pitch , but like one of the other businesses , I have Quoteys , which is a software like a start as an app , and that's a software that helps all trades based businesses .
I funny enough . I actually got in contact with you when that like first started coming out .
I used Quoteys for a while , but yeah , I mean it comes with a pre populated list Like you can literally follow the list from I don't know how many is in there , but categories and items and like covers everything from all your initial cost , design fees , certification , all the way through to your final bills is clean .
So yeah , if anyone's listening and they want to template to do their quotes , jump on board with Quoteys because it's the way to go . But that is . It is such a common story , but not just for builders , for trades as well . Like quoting needs to be done very thoroughly , doesn't ? It . Yeah . Like you haven't done a lot of it and like .
This is why I sort of say to clients on my socials like you , when you're looking for a builder , and like no disrespect to young guys like you , like I was no different .
Like , we've got to learn , you've got to come through the ranks 100% .
But the problem with our industry is we're dealing with what we're talking about here .
Like it's not like you , just like I am on that spectrum like where everyone says , oh yeah , these guys come in cheaper . Like I was that guy . Yeah , I definitely was that guy . That would you know if you were pricing a job and I priced it , I didn't know what I was doing , so 100% I'd be cheaper .
Not because I wanted to be , but because I thought that I was going to make money , and then this is the thing .
So the client doesn't know any better .
Yeah , you and I thought we knew what we were doing and so why and I look back now and I laugh back in the day , you see it really frustrated about it , but now I laugh about it , Like if a client and like I guess , why wouldn't you Like if you're getting a two or three or four quotes and there's two builders that do quality work that are substantially
cheaper ? why , wouldn't you choose them ? Like how do they know that you've missed stuff and that you don't know your overheads ? Like they don't care .
Yeah , I still joke with my wife now and I'm like I wonder if , because they were renting at the time , they were like in new farm or something . And I said to her I was like I wonder if they like seen my quote and they were like you know , we've got this other quote from this builder , buddy , 1.3 . This guy's coming at , you know 900 .
We're going with him . You know , in hindsight I reckon that's probably how it went down . But with me in the moment I was like oh , I can't believe I've been picked . Like little did . I think . I was like all right , this doesn't add up .
Like this is a pretty big house , like it was multi level , it had counter levers and I was like and they're picking me . I looked younger than I look now Like you know what I mean . Like I'm , walking in there .
Check out the video . Yeah , he does look young .
Yeah , so I was , you know .
Yeah , that's what I mean Like props to them for allowing me to get that experience , but well , I guess it was that's off to you too , mate , because you followed through and you finished the job , I'm sure that was hurting .
Oh , as I said , if I did the right and this was one of those things I did the right thing I followed through , still to this day , like we still keep in touch . If I see him on the street , like you know , we have a talk and there's no worries .
So , you know , I definitely didn't burn out on that , like I didn't , you know , burn the bridge with them at all . So , yeah , at the end of the day , the house is beautiful , like I like the product , you know , I look at it and I'm like , all right , we did a good job .
So , even though , even though you've now you've built up this successful carpentry business , so you would have learned a lot of lessons from that . So what's some ?
So that we started off that conversation about what have you learned and that's obviously a massive one but what's some just smaller things that you've implemented in your business now that , like a lot of young guys would miss , or not know .
One of the biggest things , if I could say like , one of the things that stand out to me , is culture , like if I could give anyone any advice and you know , stupid me , I didn't learn it early enough , I wish I did is just culture Like the return on investment if you can build , if you can build a good culture within your team , the return on investment , I
believe , is massive . Yeah , definitely . Like and that , to me , is the pinnacle part of everything Like it . You know , if the guys you know in carpentry contracting in the day is not , it's not the best work , you know you get some chippies that they only want to work on this and they want to do that and that's fine .
But I'm trying to appeal to you know the broad and you know I'm trying to say to them that yeah , like the stuff that we're doing isn't pretty , but I can give you the work environment .
Yeah , culture is such a hard one , mate . We had a bit of a conversation before we started recording and I'll say to you there's people that don't agree with me on this , but I honestly believe that trades based businesses building businesses are one of the hardest businesses to build culture because you can have who wants to get up it .
Who wants to get up at 5am and work in the rain , like it's just one of those things .
Like , yeah , you can have hundreds , like a company can have hundreds of people working for them . Yeah . And they're all all those say 200 people . They're all working in an office , They've all got their own little cubicle . They get up and have a coffee and they do a bit of mingling and like a building a trades based business like you're .
Like the way I described is you're basically playing a team sport eight hours every single day , Like you're physically helping each other , leaning over each other , having to talk to each other , figure things out together . Like you are .
It's not like you just turn up to work and you do your own thing over here and the other guy does his own thing over here .
Like and when you're working that close and you've got so many different beliefs and cultures and religions and opinions and interests , even like , you could have two guys on site and one fucking hates AFL , the other one loves it , but all he hears all day is AFL , because this guy is talking about it .
It's hard . It is hard Like and I've got such a vast group Like I got old guys , young guys , I got a female apprentice . I've got guys that , like , their religion is Muslim , I got it's . So dealing with this whole thing as a whole is very challenging Some days , you know what are you ?
What are you ? What do you think is important to build your culture ?
Probably the most important thing is just trying to make the experience enjoyable . You know , not everyone looks at it . Not everyone , you know I think this is something that I've learned over the years is not everyone looks at carpentry or their job is like you know , yeah , I just wake up in the morning and I'm ready to go .
Like you know , at the end of the day some people look at it as just a job . You know they get there and you know , but I have to somehow find the motivation with them and find common ground and be like all right , what do they enjoy ? You know , for my team , you know a lot of the boys , they enjoy playing golf .
So you know that's something that we try to get out and do and yeah , and that sort of stuff . So I just feel like it's such an important thing to do is to
¶ Building Culture in Trades Based Businesses
, you know , give back to the team , not only just with taking them on trips or taking them to golf , but also like they want to see growth . You know , they don't want to be part of it . And I think we've recently just taken on another qualified guy and he basically said to me like the one thing that he wanted was growth .
The builder that you know he was working for , a pretty , you know , reputable builder in Brisbane , I think you know we'd all know who they were . But he just didn't feel like he was growing . So and I said to him , I said , listen , you know , I'll give you the opportunity to grow .
So we're putting things in place now and you know , I'm giving you a little bit more rain and teaching him that you know , with my little knowledge , like even though I am still young , but you know , I do say to him like you know , it's not , it's not what you say , it's how you say it .
So you know , I think that's , that's a big thing that I've sort of instilled with everyone . It's , you know , you can say anything you want , but if you're not saying it in the correct way . It doesn't , it won't resonate with the person that you're trying to get across . Yeah , and that goes with .
That goes with clients , builders that you deal with , apprentices , you know you would know building site like oh .
I made it hard and then you got like we've recently had a situation where a guy's left and looked to be honest , I should have followed my own rules . There's lots of signs and there've been lots of people telling me to get rid of him and I should have got rid of him a long time before we we had a falling out , but it is .
It is really hard , like , because some people are very different . Like I'm sure you find this as a boss Like some people are very different when you're there than when you're not there .
Yeah . I had the same run in with , yeah , like , like I was in , like yesterday . So the phone usage , you know , if my apprentices get to listen to this , they can , they will know . But , yeah , like , the phone usage is one of the things that , yeah , we're trying to crack down .
The moment , you know , when I'm there I don't see nothing , yeah , and then when I go for , you know , six hours or eight hours , I get phone calls from the leading hands or the foreman's or whoever , and they say , oh , this person's doing this , this person's doing that . So you know yeah .
Phones are like . For the first few years of my career , there was no like weird and when phones did come in it was a Nokia 3210 . Like you could send a little , I think you could send like a hundred characters or some shit but there was no bloody Instagram . Facebook any of that shit .
No , there's frigging Snapchat .
Yeah , and it does . Oh no , I think my boy , like I'd like to think my boy's a pretty good with it . But the one thing I hate with phones like I can't stand smoke-o time and everyone's on their phone looking , doing their own thing , like there's no .
I try and encourage a bit of banter or talk about the weekend , or your like footy game or something Like yeah everyone's too interested in scrolling to see something that makes them smile for two seconds .
That's the thing . Like we definitely don't like the banter on site . Like if I go , like all the boys get along . So you know it's just a crack up , yeah , but yeah , I see that at smoke-o too , like everyone's in , you know someone's watching the footy , someone's place and you know on sports bets .
Yeah , I'm keen to man , I'm keen to learn more about because you're you're subbing for . Like , how many bills would you be doing work for ?
20 ? No , yeah , it'd be like probably 15 . Like , yeah , 15 to 20 , you know .
So what's the range ? Like volume builds , custom builds , renovations .
So like 60% of them would be volume . Volume as in . We don't really do too many stand-alones anymore . You know we're doing a lot of multi-row stuff , so you know it's got to be either , you know , 10 or 20 plus , yeah , otherwise it's not really viable for us to go .
So but in saying that though , I do have relationships with some you know big builders that we do do stand-alones for as well , but their rates are slightly higher .
Yeah , so is it ? So that's what I wanted to get to Like are you like we're keen as , like , if you're a trade out there , we want you on here . Come and have a chat ? Like I'm curious to know , because for this industry to get better , we've all got to grow together .
Like I know , back in the day , a lot of what I was doing when I was stuck in it was all driven by like we just got told the rate and you just had to head down , bum up and fucking run to try and hold the dollar . I was like no , it was . So like is that more volume work ? Is that all done on ? Like linear meter rates . Square meter rates .
So with a lot of the multi-rate stuff that we do , the bulk of it , yeah , it's just done off meter rates . You know meter rates for pretty much everything . Yeah , two bucks here , five bucks here .
So how are they ? Do they just , yeah , they don't look subcontract agreements . You are you signing contracts like yeah ?
yeah , so it's all just through , so we'll , we'll sign a contract before we start and then it just rolls on from there .
But as I said to you , like I think before we started recording was , yeah , that like there is an hourly aspect to it as well , and that's just being a relationship build up over the years , because I think you know , like every builder , when they hear that , you know the sub is coming in and they're going to charge them out of your A , they pull their hair
out and they're like , oh , this guy's going to take the pierce , he's going to take an hour , and I'm like , and that's just been a relationship that I've had to build over the years .
Yeah , and I got younger guys that you know that are come like younger than me , I should say that are coming through , that are you know , they're putting their rates up to massive amounts of money , you know , and they're like , oh , you know we can't get anyone . I'm like , yeah , because it doesn't . It doesn't work like that . You have to .
You have to earn the trust first and then you know , they have to see your quality , they have to see that your boys aren't going to take the piss , and then eventually , you know , you up it little bit by little bit . You don't go in at 95 bucks an hour yeah um , because you're not .
You're not going to get anything , oh , but I'm worth , you know , yeah .
I'm worth this . The problem everyone thinks they're worth it yeah , and that's been really uh , that's really been highlighted through COVID , like you the industry's been so like hectic and like we know , like we've lost a couple of younger guys um and look . I it's . I take my hat off to them like they're all . I anyone everyone's um deserves to earn more money .
Yeah , yeah , I'm , I'm old school . I think you need to work your way up 100 . You show your value . You don't expect .
I always have that conversation with , like because , as I said , I've had a lot of guys come and go and , um , you know some people that I've had to get rid of , and I think I always say to them , like , if you want more money , like I'm happy to come to the party with whatever you want , but you have to show me yeah , why I love it .
So that's my thing you show me why I should pay you more money , and then , once I've seen it , then I'll give it to you , I'll pay you whatever you want .
Yeah , if you're adding that value to my company . Yeah , that's , that's how it should work . Yeah , like if you're all like you won't pay me .
You won't pay me extra . I said I'll pay and I'll pay you whatever you want . Yeah , but you need to give me like something in return well , I've got a and look , it's one of those things .
You live again . You live and learn as you grow in business , but like if someone wants to get paid a hundred grand a year , they have to add 250 thousand dollars value to the business yeah .
So it's like they don't . They don't understand how they think . If , oh , if my , my pay is only a hundred . You know , if my boss does 10 jobs , oh , he's already paid for me .
Like it doesn't work , like they have no understanding of the overheads and what it what it takes to run a business and but yeah , I think that's .
I think the people that have that attitude that like sweet , like I'll , I'll get in , I'll put in that extra 1% , I'll make everything perfect , I'll bust my balls like they will always end up further ahead because people see how hard they're trying and so you like I know for me as a boss , they're the ones that every six months , 12 months , you have the
tattoo . Hey , giving you a raise like yeah .
I'd recently did that , my boys too . Um , I get like they didn't even ask me . I'll just said to him , like you know , there was two of them that stood out , and I just said , listen you too . Like yeah , I'm gonna give you a raise .
Like yeah you know , and they were appreciative as but I seen it like they were taking initiative , they were doing you know . I just said to them they're like oh , do you want anything more ? I said the thing is , the funny thing is , I'm not expecting anything more . Yeah , you're already doing it , so that's why yeah , that's why you're like I can already see .
They're like oh you sure I'm like . Nah , I said , do me a favor .
Though I said don't change a thing , you don't need to change anything , you're already doing what I would expect you to do the thing , so I think I don't know maybe , um , some people don't like it's not all about just like I tell my boys all the time , like it's not about just coming to site running around like a headless chalk and looking like you're working
flat out , like show me that you're organized show me that you're not sitting at home on the weekend reading the plan . So when you come to work on Monday , you know what has to be done , you're not wasting two or three hours in the morning or and .
I'll get out of the truck and just like , oh yeah , like , show me your efficiencies like , show me like .
I actually had a conversation with one of my younger guys this week and I said to him mate , it's the little things that make the difference . It's , uh , if you're doing cladding , it's .
It's getting set up in the area close to where you're gonna be working like don't go carrying shit from there all the way over there and then all the way back to here , like that is what's costing me time and money like show me that you're actually thinking about the bigger picture .
Yeah and I think that's where , like the contracting aspect , like you would know yourself , like you know , I've had guys come from you know beautiful builders and like they've come from amazing builders in Brisbane , and then they've come to the contracting side and there's two different mindsets , like and this is the , this is the disconnect that I'm seeing now is
that there's a completely different mindset when you go from doing that stuff to this stuff . Yeah , you got to be a lot more efficient and that's one of those things it's like you know , don't like . Why would you do that when you can do this and it's just like that's what I'm trying to like .
We see it a lot when we're like we've employed so many , like hundreds of carpenters over the years and uh yeah , the ones that stand out , they're . They're not the ones that are generally run around or bust their balls , they're the ones that are really efficient and thinking ahead and like systems and processes is everything . And like .
I find it really strange , like well funny when you see like some carpenters , just like they want to have the saw bench in the same spot the whole job and so like they will waste hours , like throughout a job , taking the timber from the front , walking it through the job , loading up 10 or 20 pieces of time , using them , cut on the park go and get more
like move you set up around the site to where you're working like . Yes , you might have to spend half an hour each morning setting shit up but , like I know myself when we're um , when we had big chippy
¶ Efficiency and Organization in Contracting
gangs and we'll smash it out um , like I had these custom made saw benches , like I'm a big fan of your saw bench should have a really deep top on it , so you can stack your timber .
You're not leaning down and picking shit up all the time and oh yeah , yeah , so double back , so you could load it here and then just do a sit straight on , yeah like just smash it up .
And it was long enough . You could set stops up and just smash your studs out like yeah and um so , but we would move that around . So , like the day we start the frame , like that was mate that was set up on stools right beside the timber packs there was no unpacking the timber , carrying it to the saw bench , cutting it and then carrying it back .
It's like McDonald's , you know , it's like the same sort of thing , and that's what I you know when we're cladding , like if we were cladding the eastern side of the house .
We were set up on that side , the guys were on the scaffold . Look , we were talking to each other .
There's no like fucking screaming out because they're cutting on the other side of the job no , yeah , I'm having that one job at the moment , like the boys , like we had a . Yeah .
Anyway , we're having a bit of a thing at the moment with something like that we can't set up anywhere , but , yeah , like that's scenario , we're having a clad , you know , the eastern wall yeah and they set up on the west side . So you're yelling from the top of your lungs .
You're trying to get a measurement down and then someone's running backwards and forwards and you like it's just so it doesn't sound like big big deal , but like you lose so much time oh yeah , and I think this is one of the things , and as I've , you know , I've been following you and like I've been , you know , doing my own data collection and this is why ,
like all my wrongdoings , like what are the jobs that I've lost on are ones that I don't feel like that , I don't feel that , like I get a gut feeling and I'm like , nah , like I can , I can feel that this job is not organized .
Or , you know , I'm not gonna like the material , you know , because of the multi-res sites , like they're huge , you know , the some of these sites are bigger than you know suburbs . Do you give your ?
the builders you work for , like some sort of contract that you've yeah yeah , so I do so I have my own sort of contract .
It's not like through master builders or anything like that . It's one that I've like done throughout time , like throughout the years of like . You know we're respond . You know they got to give us lifting play , like lifting areas on staff . You know we have to have clean .
It's just simple things that you would normally think , but when you get on these bigger jobs , you might have 15 houses to clap , you know , and the site's being muddy and they can't get the cladding down to , you know , right down there , so it looks like you gonna have to walk it .
We're like this contract I have in place , it's like nah , nah yeah , you're there to install it , not to move around exactly so . Um , and that's something that I've had to learn the hard way as well .
You know , going back , you know three , four years it was , you know worries would do it , and then you'd look at the end of the day and you'd be like , hmm , you know , we only got done . Let's just call it 25 meters worth .
You know , when normally you know , a crew of six should be doing .
Yeah , it should be doing like you know , 100 to 150 easy um of cladding , and uh , yeah , then I was like , oh , why , why is that ? And like , oh , we had to move from there to there , you know and then you'd say that's pretty powerful , isn't it ? yeah , so it was just . It's just being continuous over that .
So now it's one of those things I find and you know it's only been recent , but I find that the builders that don't want to get on board with that are usually the ones that that I lose out on . They just say that they're like no , we'll get someone else .
Yeah , because a lot of builders like our plaster is really good for it and , look , to be honest , we let him down every now and then , like he gives us a form that basically is a bit of a tick list , so the side has to be clean . It's got a bit nothing inside all these little rules and I think that's awesome .
And we really should make sure we tickle those boxes every time he does a job . But I feel like as a subbie , like a lot of the time you guys are at the mercy of the builder , Like you turn up to do your work and the builders got a shit show Well like . I know back when I was a subbie , like you'd have a builder .
So one thing that I started implementing is we wouldn't turn up whatever it was like framing , cladding , whatever until the gear was on site , because I got sick and tired of being told yeah , no it's going to be in the morning First thing . Like I'd turn up with a gear like at the time we had 40 , 50 guys .
Like we might turn up with 16 guys to smash out a big childcare center frame . You got 16 guys sitting around and you've been told the frame's going to be delivered by 7am . Like you , flick all your lines out by eight o'clock .
Every hour is just dollars yeah .
Yeah . So like I think that's fantastic that you're putting that pressure back on the builder and putting those sort of steps in place .
But don't get me wrong , like shit happens you know what . I mean Everyone's got . You know I do . I do wrong things , so does the builder . You know it's a lot of give and take and it's one of those things I believe relationships over everything is probably you know
¶ Challenges and Consequences of Building Relationships
the most important thing . Like I've got builders that I will , I will run rings for , but it goes both ways . You know what I mean I do . If something's wrong on my end , they allow me the time to fix it , or they're like it's all right , cory , like we'll , we'll get it . We understand that you're busy or , and it goes both ways .
So that's why I'm yeah , I am such a strong believer in like relationships and stuff . They don't have to . Some of the builders that I got that have signed these agreements .
You know they might not fulfill it and I'm not that anal where I'm like no , no , we're not coming because you haven't got , you know , the cladding's , not within 10 metres of the working zone .
Like , you know , if they've made , if I can , if I go to Cy and I can tell that they've made the effort , then I'm like OK you know , relationships is huge , oh , massive , with everything , yeah , who you work with you would know yourself with your own subbies , you know with everyone , yeah like suppliers subbies just made .
Our industry is very small . Yeah , like everyone , especially like when you're putting your shit out there on social media like everyone knows everything . So yeah yeah , it can be , and what we're talking about , this little bit off air like it does , amaze me , but there is still a lot of shit that doesn't get spoken about .
Like , if you're there is there's two sides to every story . But if you're a subbie that's worked for a builder that's gone bankrupt and those types of things , like to me , we won't go into this in too much detail . But to me , like a lot of the time when companies go broke , it's it's the person running the company .
Like they're the ones that hasn't put in any education or learnings or taking responsibility or whatever it may be . But yeah , like subbies if they shut down one company and start off another company , like you're stupid if you go and work for them . Yeah , like that's all I do . So anyway , I think .
I think and this is another big like , it's one of those things that I told you that I listed down was , you know , the desperation . You know , you've spoken about it before , you know , having to do this job to pay for the next job and it's still happening today .
You know , I got mates that you know they're in the whole 27 , 35 , 45 grand , even like up was the 100 , you know , but they got to do the next job , they got to get the next contract and it's so different . Yeah for builders , all sub all contractors , like I can say from experience , like I am , I am , I also .
I also do that and I think you know we've recently had it's only a small job , but in the times of desperation , of being the ones that I've that I've lost out on , like literally . If I said to my wife this morning that if I tracked all the jobs that I've lost massively on , it's always been in that moment of me being desperate .
Did I need to do the work ? No , I didn't , like I didn't need to . Like looking now , but then in the moment I'm like if I don't do this , then I'm not going to be able to pay my bills next month and you know what I do with the boys . In hindsight , I should have just been like it's all right , let the boys take annual leave , let it cool down .
We've got another job booked in three weeks , it's fine . Yeah , so it's always in those moments of desperation that I find that that's where the error comes .
So you're pretty fucking wise for a 27 year old ?
Oh , it's , it's just as I said . It's just been one of those things that I've just learned the hard way . And now that , like now that I'm doing the tracking and I'm logging in , I can see that like it literally happens all the time , and it's not just work related , like if I see a job and I'm like I've lost out on that .
What was happening in my life in that moment ? Oh , we had like a two week window of no work . That's why I took it and I should I should have just shouldn't have done it .
So it's unbelievable how controlled we are by money . Yeah . And those desperate situations come up and you do . You do things that you thought you know your guts is telling you shouldn't do , and literally , like your gut .
you feel it like . There's been a job recently where I even I rang my wife and I said to her I said I just don't , I don't feel right , I just don't feel right , but it's like , then there's a little voice in my head , that's like but you don't have work . You know yeah . Yeah , how are you going to pay the bills ?
So you're like , ah , fuck it , I'll do it . Yeah , and then you do it , and then , long behold , yeah , yeah , yeah .
All you're doing is to , like you could have sat at home and no money . Like literally .
But it's funny , hey , like once you know that you sort of I don't know about you , but I sort of think of like people , like whether they're subbies , contractors , friends , family , whatever and you , you see , these people that are struggling with life and they're basically making every decision in their life at a desperation , like they're just they're trying so hard
to achieve something . But if they just sat back , took a breath for a minute and actually wrote down some goals or vision or mission or whatever you want to call it , and then put a bit of a plan in place , they'd get out of that situation quick , smart , yeah . Like desperation is a horrible thing .
Oh , it's like we could unpack it for days on end , but like you know I can , I'll put it out there . Like I see , I say I see a psychologist every couple of weeks and , yeah , like desperate , you know . I remember saying to her like about desperation and it's one of those funny things that she's like all right , well , let's unpack it .
What is desperation , you know ?
let's do it . Well , let's unpack it .
You know what I mean , like and then she you know I basically she said to me like , explain to me what desperation is to you ? And I just said to her I said , oh , desperation to me is she's like what's the reason for it ? Why is that thought even in your head ? Why do you get desperate ?
And I'm like because I want to make sure that I get food on the table . You know that I provide that . I do my job as a husband . And she just basically sat back and just said what's the worst thing that could happen ? You know what is what is the worst thing that can happen ?
And when you really sit back and you ask yourself those questions and you try to come up with answers , everything comes in perspective real fast . You're like what is the worst that can happen ? Do ?
you think ?
there's a lot of ego involved 100 percent , you know there's . There's ego there's , you know you compare yourself to people . Yeah , you know , this guy's driving this car . You're doing it Like you know . Why haven't I got this and all those things all track , all track into my head and that all wraps into desperation , isn't it ?
So isn't it shit how we all , we all base our opinions off first glance , like you see , like it blows my mind now that you see so many carpenters driving around with it , like this 30 and 40 thousand dollar carpentry trailers and like the brand new dual carbutes and things , but like reality is most of it's on debt . Yeah .
And yeah , so I do think ego is is one of the biggest drivers of that desperation . Like you get into that situation where you're thinking like how am I going to pay my bills ? Like I know , back in the day , like I used to drive , like I used to get so anxious about that because in my head I'd be doing the numbers like I've got this many guys .
They cost me this much a day . They cost me this much an hour . Like every , every hour . I don't have a job like it's literally yeah and you do , you drive yourself crazy .
And then it doesn't matter whether you're a trader or builder , like we all get in those situations where you get that little glimmer of light that you possibly may get this job and like , mate , the amount of jobs that I put on , that I knew I was either going to do my ass or maybe just cover my cost , make a thousand dollars , but I did it to keep
everyone else going Like it's crazy .
Yeah , and that's what , something that she said to me . She's like what happens if you get rid of everyone . Yeah well , start again Literally , but yeah , so it was just one of those things , and can we dive into that a bit , because I've been to see a psychologist a couple of times over the years .
I think it's . I think it is really important to talk to people that are outside your circle , that know nothing about very little about you and you just spill your guts . But like , what was it that made you think like I need to just go and have a chat to somebody ?
Full credit to my wife . She , she was the one that you know she didn't say to me to do it Like I feel like it's been . It's been ever since the passing of my old man . It's been , you know , a bit of a rocky road for myself . So it was just one of those things and then I just made the , I just made the call .
One day , you know , my health and my mindset was something that I needed to get to get hold of and it's , it's . It has been good . You know , everyone is this word of psychologist and they're all like oh no , you know , something's wrong with him .
It's not that at all , like I'm perfectly fine , I don't need to go , but it's just another one of those things that I put in my toolbox . And you know
¶ Ego, Desperation, and Personal Growth
, it allows me to see a third party and it just gives me another perspective of life and work . And you know it's actually funny that .
You know , I said to my wife yesterday morning , while we were having breakfast , I said to her , I said like it's , it's so weird oh it's well done , and that amazed me , that you're a trade and your wife's stuff early enough to have breakfast , oh no Well this is one of those things .
So I get the . You know I get the . I get the privilege of . You know I do get the . You know I've been able to build a business now that I do get the privilege of being able to be home . You know two , three days a week . You know the guys that I've got are really good . You know they do look after a lot of stuff on site .
So when you say home , you're at home doing office work , and well , I'm like , I'm at home , I'm going to the gym , I'm like I'm not sipping a pint of clatter in the pool , but like I'm , you know I'm still at home , I'm being able to spend time with my daughter .
You know , and to me I don't think you would know yourself you know if I'm at home and I've got to get on the computer and , you know , take a phone call , but if I'm , if I'm there , if I'm able to be present with my daughter , like that's to me that that's enough . It's everything I don't need .
I don't need to be like a feed up , watching a movie to be relaxed , like I like to be in the zone as well . So , but in saying that though , things come up like she's like oh , we got to take Charlie here or do this , ok , like and that's something that we've been able to build . You know , it hasn't happened overnight .
But I said to her the other day , while we were having breakfast I said oh , it's just funny that you know , if I could look back , you know , five years ago , I would think , you know , I'd be a lot more stressed than what I am now .
You know , five years ago , I think , if , when I'm in that position , like my brain is going to blow up now , like literally , I'm so de-stressed , like it's , it's crazy and it's a blessing in disguise , because on one hand , I'm like it's scary , because I'm like I'm missing something . Is there more than I can ? Is there more that I can do , you know ?
And obviously saying that's like colleges , they're all like it's fine , just like go with them , like go with it . Don't try to go against the grain . Like you know , you have good days , you have bad days , it's fine .
So I think it's a . I think yeah . Again , take my hat off to you for putting it out there , I think it's really important for especially blokes like we . Oh .
I put myself out there all over the place Like , oh , again anxiety .
I struggle with depression .
It's , I don't think it's the boys need to do it , like the guy . And I say to all my guys like you , they need to do it . Not only , not only go to like look after your health and whatnot , but you need to look after yourself , like in your , in your own head , and yeah , it's incredible .
Like I'm sure you're aware , like the , the trademark guys got that TX . Yeah , that free service for anyone that needs it . Reach out to them . They're fucking incredible . Yeah , they're really good guys , they're good supporters .
Yeah , you know they're great guys . I'm full . I'm full with it , everything that they're doing . So you know , I've tried to , I've tried to get on board and , like you know , sponsor or do whatever I needed to do .
But yeah , and that you know , I say that now , talking now , but you know this is only something that's recently happened to me , so it had taken me to now to to learn that and it's been . You know , it hasn't always been lollipops and rainbows , that's for sure .
So , matt , how is it like ? How's the business go now ? Like you , I mean it's only four we've got 10 or 12 guys , like obviously you've put a lot in place , you've got a good team now . So what's the plan ? Moving forward , like you now that you've sort of realized and seen a bit of personal growth and things- like it .
I don't know about you , but I get addicted to this shit , like I just see the little bits of improvement . Like and I think there's something I like to make people aware of . Like it's , it can be small . Yeah just the tiny little steps and every little step leads to another step and another step . Like I'm addicted to it .
Yeah , my wife said to me , she goes , oh , you know , like she always just briefly says to me like , oh , like , don't celebrate the crops , celebrate the seeds that you plant .
So you know , I try to .
It's just one of those things . Like I just try to you know I don't try to always look at the broader picture and like , look at , like you know , I'll be happy when I get there Like it doesn't , it doesn't .
Like I literally said to her this morning I was like , as long as I'm in a better position , this like next year or this year than I was yeah or tomorrow or whenever , like it doesn't , you know , today and yesterday might be the same , but in a month's time , as long as I'm a little bit better or I've improved .
You know , system and processes , one of those things I love systems and processes , but am I the best at implementing them ? No , but I take it . It's taken me like up until now , like a little bit after a little bit after a little bit , so it doesn't happen overnight .
So , yeah , we try not to well , I try not to like say anymore , like I try to get out of my vocabulary , like I'll be happy when I get that car , I'll be happy when I move into that house , I'll be happy when I just try to be in the moment , just be happy then .
So that was a huge game changer for me . Like I used to always want more . Yeah . And I got to a point where I realized , like , if I'm not happy with where I am now , what's making me think I'm going to be happy when I get to there ? Like , is it people's perception of me is because I think that that car is going to be better than this car ?
Is that , is that bigger house going to make people think more of me ? Like , what is it ? But when I really started thinking like just waking up every day and think like like I'm alive , Like waking up alive , seeing the sun come up . I mean seeing my wife and my girls . It's everything , that is everything . And so it was . It's quite incredible .
Obviously , there's lots of other stuff going on around the place as well , with self improvement stuff , but like just changing my mindset , to be completely grateful for where I am right now . Today , everything else just started falling in place .
Yeah , and I think that that's the biggest thing , like once I got that sorted and then now I'm you know I'm just trying to look after my body and you know I'm trying to get off the beers and , you know , actually do something proper for long term . And I've doubled in the gym and meal plans , all that sort of stuff .
But now I'm just like I'm trying to take it a little bit more seriously and that , combined with the mental , is it's crazy what it's done for me right now .
So yeah , does any of your team like get interested in what you're doing ?
They do , but a lot of the boys are still , you know , footy beers you know , it is what it is . I don't try to push it too hard . I say to them like you know , it's all good . Like , yeah , we can do something else . Like yeah instead of going to play golf , like why don't we all go to a day spa or something ?
They're like no , no you're playing for beers . we're playing golf , so they don't , you know yeah , I try not to push it too hard . But yeah , I always say to them like , come to me if you ever got any concerns or you want to try something I think you've got . Is it , justin , that does the breath work ?
Yeah , it does .
Yeah so I've been following him for a while as well , so it's something that I've been interested in as well of doing if you have to do it but , what he's doing for the industry now is pretty incredible .
That business he set up now in a breath . He's offering a service where he basically brings ice baths out to your site , or really does a one hour breathing session with your team and then , if anyone wants to , they have an ice bath . It's pretty insane . I've been . I've been talking about it a little bit to do it with my boys .
But again , most of my boys aren't really that interested and I'm not going to say , hey , this is what we're doing , you got to go and do it . Like yeah , and it's so good , I don't know . Back to that culture thing we're talking about . Like it is hard sometimes because you can't .
You can't organize a group activity that one or two want to do and the other ones are like fuck this .
That's just not part of the cut Like that . Christmas parties . Yeah , like some guys drink , some guys don't drink some guys like playing golf , some don't , Some want to party , some don't , Some want to bring their partners , some are single , so it's like what do we , what do we do ?
So I just said to them jokingly the other day I was like we're all getting hampers this year .
Yes , the last year was a headache . We've solved that problems and now that we give them the option , they want to do something . Most of them do want to have a casual beer and a feed , so it might just be a pub lunch or whatever , but no , we've given them
¶ Self-Improvement and Building Integrity in Carpentry
hampers , christmas hams , all sorts of shit and we're like well , that solves the problems .
Yeah , yeah . So that's what we're thinking about . That's what we're thinking about doing this year , because last year was a bit of a nightmare .
But it's hard . It is so hard trying to please everybody .
Oh yeah , and you just . People are so different , Like you know , they're so different , so it I can't . And they're allowed to be . Yeah , that's 100% . That's what I want .
One thing that I've definitely come to realize they are . They are like I won't push anything that I'm doing now onto my boys If they want to . My surprise was giving me shit the other day , actually because I am right into these cold bars and I just recently did a snowy mountain cold expedition .
Yeah , I'll say that . It was unreal mate .
I recommend it with Joe Hennis but we've got a we've not long finished a renovation and we had to revamp all the existing pool area , so reddit all the coping waterline tiles . So we had to empty the pool out and the pool's been filled back up and no one put the cover back on the valve on the bottom of the pool , and so I've gone out there .
We generally go back to our jobs multiple times and just check on things . And I think there's some bit of pool fencing , that a bit of glass needed replacing , and there's some window screens or something that hadn't gone on .
So I just went out to see the owners and check on things and I was like shit , that cover still hasn't been put on that in the pool there . And I said to my supervisor oh , have you done anything about organizing that cover for the valve ?
And he's like no , and I don't know if it was my wife in the office or the owner had told him that when I was there . I said , oh , is it all right if we leave it till summer ? So , so now all of a sudden he's like oh , a fucking ice man like down and doing your ice bath . You might fucking get in the pool with a cover on Talk a big game .
That's funny . So yeah , a bit of band is always good . But so , mate , what like ? What's like . You've learned a lot . You've had some very expensive lessons in your short career . Yeah , like is . Is carpentry what you like , the carpentry business what you want to keep doing ? Do you think you'll ever get back and have a go at a bit ?
of building 100% . I think building like I loved it .
Like even though I was losing money the dollars weren't , it wasn't my , wasn't my passion , like I wasn't , I wasn't looking at that constantly and then get myself down , I loved , like being in the moment and organizing guys and I learned heaps like we did you know I'm missing out a lot of context or like it wasn't like I just did one job , like we did .
You know I did heaps , a little like little renaissance and you know , bathrooms and kitchens and we got holders and granny flats and little extensions . You know we were doing all that amongst everything , but that one , that main one , was yeah , that was the biggest one today , but definitely I want to get back into building .
But in saying that , though , like it's , it's one of those things , I'm not putting pressure on myself to go one way , it's , I'm just letting it take me . Whichever way is natural or organic .
So , yeah , if you know , if the carpentry business takes off and it continuously does what it's doing now and you know I get the processes in place and it does everything that I want it to do I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing . I think you know I pay my bill .
I do everything that I need , that I need to do , so I think , going like to me the fact that you've reached out you wanted to come here today and tell your story and even just some of the conversations we had before we started recording , like I think you're going to do well .
And I don't know if you want to talk about this , but like I feel that especially in the carpentry , contracting industry .
There's a lot of cowboys . Yeah , oh , mate , there's . There is a lot of there . There is a lot of you wouldn't like . I don't know what the ratio is carpenters to builders , but there's a lot more chippies out there than there are builders like that's a known fact so there's , you know , thousands and thousands and thousands .
So it's you know , I went on one job and there was like a crew there and I was like you know , not one of them could speak a bar of English .
So I was like , oh , here we go Like how do you bring your team up to spec ? Like , do you ?
basically like sell like myself , like we've got . You know , we go to jobs and there's one house here that's been done by another crew and I look at it , I'm like yuck , like no , that's not us .
So like I just I say to all my boys you know , integrity is the biggest thing , doing the right thing when no one's looking like you know , I kind of have eyes everywhere , so I rely on all of them as a whole to do the right thing when I'm not there . So I have teams now I've got a North side team and a South side team so and I've worked .
Do they get on ?
Oh yeah , they love it . Like there's been there's a few times here and there that they all get together and they love it . Like when I say that they're all like , all on my job , they're like oh yeah like . I personally don't like it because I know that the frickin the I can chatting just goes off the handles . They also on smack left , right and center .
So but how do you so you ? Another reason I'm curious to talk to you . Like I know back when I was running a big car for a gang , like I was all about reading the space installs instructions , because like there's new cladding and shit coming out all the time , and new like with all these changes coming in October , like the sarkings and wraps and shit Like .
So is that , do you take that on yourself to bring your team up to spec ?
Yeah , so obviously I get all the you know things from master builders and you know all the things through supplies and everything like that I think I got . I think in my computer I'd have like over a hundred different installation gods . And you know , do I do ? I know I'm all front to back , I'll be honest with you .
No , but what my process is now , and I've sort of got like noted as like an actual process , is that when we get a large job or you know anything , that's like two or more , I send all the corresponding stuff , so cladding type , the frame , the plans , everything .
I send it all to the foreman's or the chipies or whoever's , whoever's going to be there for that job . I send it all to him and then I basically quiz them on it . So and I give them enough notice . I don't send it to him like today and expect him to know tomorrow . I send it like months in advance .
I say , hey , listen , I send you this , you know , but my book , I'm so thankful for my guys , like they they all say to me that they want , they want that they want to see the plans , they want to see the specs , you know , you know , especially one of the guys that I got . You know he's very over the top .
You know he'll be messaging me on a frigging Saturday afternoon when I'm playing with my daughter , like you know , oh , what's . Do you know why ? This got 200 centers on this ?
But you know , you know I sit yeah , like party wall systems and that , like he ended up , he ended up reading it back with back to front over and over again and then he ended up finding like a discrepancy in it . Like he's like , oh , there's one detail here that shows this , but it doesn't show this .
So when it certified knocked us back on it , he told the certifier and the certifier was like , hey , you're actually right . So you know , he , he was all over it . But yeah , that's sort of the process that I have to get the boys under , like over the top of all the installation and stuff .
Yeah , we're involved in repricing a job at the moment for a builder that's gone broke and for the clients and like made as soon as I turned up to the site and now . I've since found out that the builder just was bringing in carpentry gangs and things and the cladding is absolutely atrocious , like there is .
It's not even not even an attempt to get it anywhere near the specification .
Yeah , and I think that's one of the things it's like and I've been , you know , as you , as you'd said like there is two sides to the coin . There is crews out there that perform that stuff day in , day out . They still get paid . They're still running around . You know they got . You know I got my .
I might have 15 builders , but they've got , like you know , 150 . So but in saying that there is , there is also , you know , I know for a fact that there are builders out there that want not I wouldn't sorry it's the wrong way to put it Not want dodgy workmanship . But you know they , they won't provide you the right , you know the right access .
They won't provide you the right material . They won't provide you . You know , if you need joint seal , they're like nah , it's all good , I'm not paying $20 a tube . You know they cut costs in that way . And then you know it sets the .
You know I say it a lot of the because I'm mates with like a lot , of , a lot of guys that own big building companies and I say to all of them you know the site and how you start the job is how you finish the job . If , if a sub is walking in there and you've got no taller . You got a dog shit access . You got no roads . There's mud everywhere .
I said nine times out of 10 , you're going to get a shit job Because they're coming in with the attitude that you don't care , so why should they ? You know . So I say to them like , if you know , I'm thankful that a lot of the builders that I go to like they look after the job like I get there , there's good access , there's .
You know , I can see they've made an effort , so it's like all right . Well , you know , these guys actually care about us , so we're going to care about them . Yeah , so that's what I mean there is . There is always two sides to the coin . So I've been on . You know
¶ Job Quality and Contractor Relationships
, I'm no saint either . I've been on jobs where I get a contact . You promised me the world , we rock up and the site is a bomb site . There's materials everywhere you can't get access to anything . There's no talk like the closest tour , there's no , there's no water on site . There's no power on site .
There's , you know , and you do , you know you do a couple of things wrong . And then they get up and stamp their feet and you've done this , you've done that , and it's like hold up , like wait a minute , like you've .
You know , how can you say that when you know I had to run four leads across a road in the rain to get the compressor or we're having to walk ? You got no tall . You said we're having to walk . You know 500 meters up the road to another job site to use their toilet , you know does that ? does that still happen ? Still happen , mate .
Today , like you know , all you got to do yeah , you jump in the truck with me , I'll take you . Yeah , I can . I can show you the sites that are still out there today , that are still doing that . So , um , that's why I said like I wanted to bring that , like I'm not here to expose you . I'm not going to expose anyone .
But all this stuff is , why mate ? Like again , I laugh about it now but like how can a client make a decision when Within our industry there is so many shit shows ?
Oh look there is , so that it is so complex , like it's some of these jobs . They're 120 , they're 120 townhouses , two storey townhouses . They're all sold , sold to developers , sold to Chinese , sold to whoever . And you know the quality goes out of the window . But you know , insane , I do , we do do nice stuff .
There is builders around Brisbane that we do do really good stuff for and we know that they , you know they care for us . They get us the stuff . They actually want us to do a good job and we perform like on point for them every time .
So actually we'll just quickly go back to that , Because so we talked about all the volume stuff , but you also do a bit of custom stuff , yeah .
So we do do a lot of luxury stuff as well Front , and it's all quoted . So they sent me the plans . They don't give me a rate like what we were talking about off , you know before . But yeah , they don't send me rates , they just send me the price and the price .
They send me the plans and I basically just price it up and yeah , and then it goes from there . You know , there's been a few times where they're like I don't hang on here , it's a little bit high , but then I'm picking up on things that they don't know about , you know .
So you send them back a scope of works . Yeah .
So they send me like a brief scope of works , but then a lot of the times I'm sending back like a revised scope because some of these guys they're builder developers . So you know they don't , you know they don't really it's not like they're looking at the price .
Yeah , like they look at them .
You know , they know what they want , they know what it's going to sell for . Yeah , but they're not looking at what type of materials , and that's one of the things that's , that's the like I'm able to price what I price , because that's the relationship that I've built . They they entrust .
Like there's one guy that I've got , you know we did a house down at eight mile planes . You know he rings me for details , like he , he rings me and he's like what should we do here ? You know what should I do there ? And then you know he's not telling me what he wants . I'm telling him so , but that's just that hasn't happened overnight .
That's the relationship .
That's exactly right . So it's relationships , so yeah . And then I just send him a revised quote , revised scope , with the price and nine times out of 10 , they just go yeah , no worries , we trust you . You know , we've done that , we've done this and we've done that with you before .
Yeah , and down yeah , Our turn needs to work . That's a perfect . A good relationship will generally lead to a good quality job .
And I always say to him like the biggest , the biggest thing that I say is like why would I poach , like why would I try to scalp on you know the price , like try to rip you up for the price on the chance that you're probably going to find out , cause you're not an idiot ?
Like no one's an idiot If you , if you're a builder and you're in that sort of role , you're not an idiot . So why would I run the risk of doing that and breaking that relationship ? Just doesn't make sense to me . Yeah . You know and that . But there's guys out there that do that . You know they .
They price up a hundred jobs on the on the hope that they win 10 , that they've ripped the builder and they , you know they're over , they're overcharging heaps . Yeah , you know I'm making cream on this , I'm making criminal . And then you know , five years ago passed and they're no longer around .
So there's plenty of that . So , mate , what do you ? All this going on , young age , cecil , business , stuff , what's your chill out ? What do you ? What do you go to ?
At this point in time , just hanging out with my daughter , that's yeah that's my , my go-to . Yeah , just spending time with her is like the best thing for me . Yeah . I don't , as I sort of said before , like I don't . You know , I like fishing , I like golf , but hanging out with my daughter tops all that . Yeah , how old is your daughter .
No , she's two so yeah , they run real mate , the best thing ever .
It's and she's like such a , yeah , we're so , hopefully another one on the way , but like , yeah , we're , yeah , it's so good . So , I don't really want to like when I'm not at work . I just want to be hanging out with her .
So yeah , well , you're not too far off , mate , getting a rod in the hands , I think , I think . I think my girls are only three or four and on the beach they teach me how to fish like getting a little whiting and stuff . It's pretty awesome .
Yeah , no , it's , it's great . Like , yeah , I'm not , I don't play , I don't play any sports or anything like that , it's just hanging out with her and hanging out with my wife and you know it's awesome man families , like you said before , families , everything , yeah , so , mate , we'll wrap it up .
So before we wrap it up like just what's , I guess one thing like for any young chippies or builders or anyone in the industry out there that's maybe struggling , having a hard time , like what advice would you ?
give them . Basically , just , you know , don't be desperate . You know , if I could , if I could put that in a hole , to one thing it would be . You know , don't let the desperation because I've been in that , I've been in that spot Don't let the desperation eat you up . Just , you know , take a breath , take a sit I set about , just take a little minute .
You know , a day , you know we have this . We call it like oh , I say it to my wife it's the 72 hour rule . So if you still feel the same way in three days , then you know , if you still feel how you feel now in three days , then it's the right move to make . If you change your mind or you change the opinion , then it was never the right call .
So you give yourself 72 hours and just don't be desperate like me because I feel like every time , I'm desperate , I'm had to come out with 72 hours .
That's a long time to be thinking of this .
Oh , it's just , it's just like I don't know . It was just one of those , it was one of the and , to be honest , it has worked , you know , because I feel it's in times of excitement as well .
So when you're trying to , when you're like the job , remember how we said a few years back , you know an architect come to me and he said , oh , do you want to price this job ? And I went , yes , like now , I let myself actually sit back and relax and go all right , is this the actual right call to make ? So it works on both ends of the coin . Yeah .
Because now I've had times where I've had a person come to me and they've got a real good job and I'm like , oh , this house is amazing , this would be great for you know , this would be great for the company to do . And then it's not until I actually let it sink and I'm like all right .
Then I do a bit of research and I'm like all right , and then I speak to a few guys and then yeah , so you ?
know , I think that's , I think that's some of the best advice we've heard in a long time .
So and and obviously don't miss , don't try to miss items on your quotes , but yeah , no , definitely don't miss items on your quote If you don't want to miss items on your quote .
Go and check out Quoteys . And I'm pretty populated at least we have in there and we'll . We can even help you out setting it up . But , mate , thanks very much for coming on today . I think , you've dropped some absolute bombs , it's . It's been a real pleasure to talk to you and , yeah , I hope you have a lot of success . Yeah , thank you .
Thanks for having me and cheers , it's going good . Are you ready to ?
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