Commitment, Communication, Collaboration = Success with Chris from PrimeBuilt

The best ?

So Chris and I have known each other for a while now , probably meant through social media . But I will just warn everyone before we get stuck into this one , we do have some construction works going on outside the shed at the moment , so we definitely are in it pretty much on a job site today .

So for those that don't know Chris , he made his acting debut as a storm trooper at the Live Life , build Live event . He's very shy and he's definitely come out of his comfort zone to be here today , but I guarantee you Chris has got a lot of value to add . So , mate , thanks so much for coming along . I really appreciate it .

You're up here from Melbourne .

Not so much an interest of mine , certainly my dad's , but I , you know , saddled onto a bit of that once I got to know a little bit more and it tends to go a bit further from there .

Like my bike riding mates can't stand AFL and I just forget half the time and I'm like you know , go the blue boys and they're like what are you talking about ? Yeah .

with motorsports I couldn't tell you who's leading supercar championship or any of that sort of thing . But I just love . I love saying like yeah , bikes , cars , speedboats , helicopters , like anything with a bit of a speed to it , I think , and just I know . I love the noise too , the smell , yeah oh , yeah , the smell , everything .

But we went to do that and then we've been a couple of times since and then , obviously because the stones are so old , everyone's their last and we missed one due to COVID . We were going to go to the States to go and see them but they announced another show in London . Anyway , long story short , we're looking into it and he goes .

Didn't you want to go see some car show ? while you were there or you know , at some stage and I'm like , oh , that's . You know , I've been thought about it's in July sometime and the concert was in June and as was on the phone to him .

You know , I've looked up on the computer because we're literally booking flights and things , and you know , it was in June . It was the same weekend . It was the same weekend . The concert was on Like this is not . This is unreal .

So of course , we extended the trip an extra few days to cover and , yeah , we shot over last year , which was so what's that time ? The ? Goodwood .

They have a couple of other signature events at the same property , but this is the big one and it's really is just there's no other way to describe it but a Festival of Speed . Like you , just for people who are into it .

You walk around and it's an overload of your senses with things that are going on Like you know Travis Pastranas over there doing donuts and doing something silly . Then there's a you know a four million dollar car over here . You know racing against another four .

You're like there's just stuff going over and like it's not about the money but it's a real gentleman's event . You know if I can say that , it's just a . You know , you can go to some motorsport events and they can be a bit like fair Bargains yeah . Yeah , yeah , they're none of that over there . It's so Most of them .

Sellers were pretty close , whatever , and they're just there's like this car dealership that pops out of nowhere but it's got room for like one car and it's saying we're 10 minutes away from the festival and I'm like oh , you guys are what's that thing ? And I go , it's a McLaren F1 .

They made like not many of them and it's like the last one , so for $25 million , something's just one sitting there , and then we go , then we see another six and that's just that sort of thing , you know . Yeah .

Like , again , I don't care about the money , sort of things , but these guys the thing that I loved about it is they're punting these things up the hill which is the Lord's driveway , you know , and that's what they do . They just run these things up there and have a real crack at it .

all these important race cars are just strung upside down on this thing in the air and the event goes for four days . So it's really good and you can just get so close to it . You know , it's just a really good .

We did another one , another event over there years ago , which I know .

So we jumped in the car with Cam . He picked us up from the airport and he drove down the start of the track and we , you know , an hour or two later it was practice and we jumped in and sat there and he said oh , you come down the hill and you're straight in the top gear and it's flat out through here and blah blah blah , blah .

It was a bit of a sighting lap from a racer's perspective . And then we sat there in the crowd and it's so close to where the bikes go past and you can hear them wind up and everyone in the crowd you can hear their breath just get taken away when the bike goes past and you hear this sort of slow echo like you know , because it does .

It's just , it's unbelievably Close , you can just see , and it's , it's a good form of racing to like that flat out buddy top speed Like two wheels off the ground yeah buddy Meet her away from massive trees and stone fences and oh it's crazy and it's not like , I'm like a short circuit , so you know .

You know your braking points at the end of the straight and your second gear here or you whatever . They've elapsed like 60 kilometers .

But they race like they're on a short circuit and they got gravel traps and stuff . These things are got bluestone walls and power poles , like it's . It's seriously . So , dad was mentioning you want , he wouldn't mind going over and have a look at that at some stage .

Like I said , I just remember growing up whether I had a day off school . It was like a fake to Siki or something . I gotta work with dad , go get the yeet bogged or something . So you know what I mean .

Yeah , so he's Probably been pretty lucky to have that sort of Insight like available on hand just just experience of talking and watching them run a business In the building industry , obviously . So , yeah , we're real lucky , do ?

look at my old man's a painter , like I was the same , like mate , I made every excuse I could not to go to school and jump in the year with him and go . I go to the job site . But do you think having that upbringing and seeing what your old boy went through has helped you Know what you need to do now ?

Because , like you're , you're a member of live , like , build , you Actually used , use our software qualities as well , like do you see , you've obviously seen the value in not just being , not will , not being a great builder , but actually having to know more about the business side of things .

I remember being sort of a teenager just before I started working and being real curious as to why dad was always so busy , so busy , so busy , like he always made time to have a kick of the footy with us on the road when he'd come home , but it was like 10 minutes because you had to get in , make the phone calls and stuff like probably almost before made

by Phones riffing . But yeah . I guess I sort of I've had my battles with it in my head about , like , because it can never be enough , like you can do seven days a week , 24 , seven you feel like you never on top of it .

And then I've sort of had the advantage of looking back and saying , well , if I was gonna do that , yeah , is there another angle which I could take on this ?

But I mean , I entered the industry sort of electively , doing it with with a fellow who was a hard-tast master and so not my dad in that dad's not a carpenter , so and I did my time like that and it was , you know , this guy pushed me and we still pretty good mates today , but he just taught me that fundamental and then so I've done all that .

And then the tradesman side of things , but certainly when I started building , you know , I thought there's got to be more than this .

There's got to be , there's got to be something here , because there's the same sort of stories that keep coming through , whether it's you know , you know clients , or they don't like this , or they don't know this , and stuff I don't . You know , look , a lot of stuff that you do sort of resonates as well . It's it's medication communication .

But we're , it's , you just don't know .

You don't know that's right and it's starting from so far back , because you know you , you mentioned , you weren't really keen on going to school like the same thing and I think a lot of the industry is probably could relate to that and by definition , you want to be out there getting your hands dirty and learning things practically that way .

One of the things that I'm really disappointed about and we definitely pay a lot of attention with our girls is like the , the schooling system is a one-size-fits-all and Looking back at it now , like I , I feel like I was probably made to think that I wasn't a smart person Because I wasn't interested in what was going on at school .

And yet when you put me on a job site , even at a young age , I could kill it and I was interested like I would . I would get interested in the books when I was doing my Apprenticeship and and do what I needed to do because I knew that would get me to be an apprenticeship . We'll finish my apprenticeship , but I think it's a real shame

that I don't know there's there's not more work done around in those early years , imparing people to have confidence in what they are thinking of doing , rather than possibly making them feel like I did , where you're like Not too sure or you , you feel like you're not up to the same intelligence level of the people around you and you get told to make a decision

by a certain age or stage .

But you're still getting that . You're still getting exposure , you know . But the young , the young guys coming through , whether they're first year or second year or something . You're literally taking them out of school and watching them become a man or a woman . Yeah , or whatever they can do in front of you .

You know , and it's it's their life lessons , like I've reflected my time at that stage , when I finished high school , but I didn't probably feel like I was ready to go to work , but when I was , I was still a bit you know . I know this is gonna be a big turning point because of that thing .

I like looking at that and they're like all he seemed to do was work and I couldn't quite , couldn't compute , like all I did was Play footy , ride bikes , do whatever I wanted to do . And that was like , you know , it's grow up time .

It was always working and quite often it was sad days and Sundays and stuff as well , and like a big driver .

For me with my young girls has been like I want to get myself in a position where I can , like , if I Take them to school or pick them up or , yeah , take them away for long weekends as much as possible , like all that type of thing , yeah it is a driver , it's a .

we were , you know we would go boating . You know and but dad would come back in the holidays to break because he had to just go home service for a couple of Days and come back , and he'd always make that work . Yeah , that was our holiday and we were wrapped .

Yeah , so we by no means felt that I missed out because dad , mum , dad were both so busy , but I Whether do you think they're present , but yeah , no . I do . Yeah , I , it was the confusing .

Confusing thing with me was that the problems , not the problems , but that what he had to serve us and his time I don't think he felt was as valuable as it was , because it was just the , the way it was like putting out the same old Headaches like he's .

He said to me went from plumbing you know what I mean to to building , and remembers the bricklayer on the first job and dad was somewhere else doing something else . They rang him up , said I need , need a couple of bags of cement , and he goes , we'll get in the harbor and get them and he and then they're gonna know we don't do that and he goes .

I'm on the other side town . They said I will see you tomorrow . And he he's like what do you mean the hardwares ? You know , 300 minutes down the road , just go and get them all , fix them up for you . Yeah , no , no , no , you're the builder .

You got to get this cement for us and this is like 80s or something so and he's just like this is not what plumbers did like . Plumbers came prepared . They had all their equipment , every fitting , you know gas and all that sort of stuff , or Reese would run it out , or whatever .

But yeah so it took him a bit to get his head around , but like when I saw him , you know , battling the same sort of hiccups over and , over and over again and and yeah , that's , I guess I'd look at that and go .

He just got used to being that Johnny on the spot had to sort of put out the fire and that's the way it was and you know , you know you're in a good living doing it and we are no complaints at all .

The systems and processes help , but it , like you said , he probably didn't value his time the way that he should have .

When you do take ownership and you value your time like , look at data sort of suggests now that you can actually most big , most builders can actually Double or triple their turnover and the amount of jobs they do with the current size team they have once they learn how to run it properly .

Yep , instead of , because there's just so much waste of time and most builders and this was me like back in the day I was probably no different to your old boy Like I was literally just running around from site to site trades , ringing me on another job , same deal , oh , we need this , or can you need you to have a look at this ?

And so you'd you'd not attend , attend , you wouldn't get to finish what you're doing , you'd race over there , like you . Just you just run around like a headless joke , like trying to satisfy everybody else who , and ? And I wasn't getting a second for myself .

Yeah , and that would go from the phone ringing at five in the morning , five thirty in the morning , to talking on the phone , and you're walking into the house at six thirty seven o'clock at night .

I think the building environment's probably been a tough one for a lot of people , and whether it's education or or the lack of support from any industry or bodies or you know , we're VBA or whatever you want to call it just knowledge as well .

But I think in the not too distant future it's just gonna be a much more appealing and much more secure and stable environment .

So , like I tell my younger guys all the time , like you're in a prime position , like if you get your shit together , you work your ass off , you do as you're told , you put in that extra 1% and you do things correct .

You're in a prime position to do well , because there is not too many Well there's , there's no in here enough coming through to keep up with the demand of what we have to do . Yeah so if you do a really good job of it , you can charge what you need to charge and you're going to make really good money . Yeah , for every 10 retiring .

Now I can't think of doing anything better . Like you , I think you just got to get in that mindset . Well , you've got to put in the work , don't you ? Yeah . What got you to a point where you decided I can't do this on my own , like I need to whatever . Read book , read Audible , get some coaching , mentoring , like .

And it's funny what happens when you give yourself some time to think , just to forge yourself some time to maybe let some fresh ideas and some perspective come into it . And I looked at those people who had cast such a big influence on me , close to me , being my dad , the guy I did my time with .

You know others and you know they're all incredibly happy doing what they're doing . That's fantastic , but for me I know there was something missing . So I went and did some business courses and stuff like that and from then on I've been really into just constant learning .

But you know , if I look at dad , who my man dad , who had it on their all by themselves . they don't by themselves , like I'm like . Well , surely I can put together a team and do this smoother . You know , just pick up some efficiencies and stuff and yeah .

And then you know from that just that you're employing people , you're responsible for delivering a wage or check each week , whatever it's going to be . But then you start to dive into their growth and you start to think about who , what positions you need .

Then you , you know , you're learning in depth about , you know the numbers , essentially in the building , in any business , but a building business there's . I think they're probably one of the harder businesses to track , but I don't know . I just got fueled by that . And then not being on the tools all day and I love being on the tools- I still do .

I have no qualms about going and doing it . Oh , my guys will see this eventually and give me a head shift .

So you know , and that's just what happens . But I don't know , I think being on the tools all day , like because it's physically exhausting it can be I just needed that bit of step back to sort of let a bit of fresh air in and work it out . But then , like , I quickly spend it on something else . So there's life build . Before that I was .

You know , I was flying to Sydney for some like a business course for over 12 months and that was good , you know , I just I really got a lot out of it . So all my mates thought I was nuts , you know . They got wind of what the sort of the course cost and what I was actually doing and it's like what are you doing ?

Like you know , I can't just go back to the pub or do something like that so yeah , it does it . And once you go and you you bite off a piece , it becomes pretty addictive .

Yeah , and it , like the building game , is a tough one , there's no doubt about it , but it's just so many .

But we everyone just envisages the house that's getting built on the site , the block of land and like really overseas , just how much goes on behind the scenes Like to run a successful building business , like the site stuff , such a small part of it , like behind the scenes you've got accounts , bloody contracts , invoicing like proposals , like doing all the costing

and estimating Like that's probably that kills me Probably the one of the biggest parts . Yep . Just obviously all your general administration , handling leads and inquiries , like it's enormous .

work , like the joke I said about my nap . No , back before they give me shit , because I'm not . What do I do all day ? I must just drink cafe lattes and you know , the contracts roll in . It's just that it's everything like you could . If you're not doing it , you're chasing it or you're quoting it or you're getting it .

You know getting it right , making sure your numbers are right , tracking your data .

You know making sure your team's right , making sure the first year apprentices got what he needs , is OK , Like it just goes and goes and goes and it's it's really I think you mentioned it you know , off the sort of data that you guys track , that you think 80 percent of Oregon at 70 to 80 percent .

Yeah , I remember back in the day , like as I was starting to get my building business going and I was like we did a few years of like , yeah , I had 40 plus carpenters , we're doing a lot of contracting work and some a lot of that work we we ended up getting him with this company , that was . They were growing as well .

They're doing a lot of multi res and we did a hyper commercial work with them and every job we do with them . They had multiple side offices on site . They had superintendents and project managers and all this stuff and , like I had great relationships with them . But , man , I used to give them shit like all the time .

I was like you guys just sit in your frigging office , like what are you actually doing there ?

Like come on , and I look back now I think , man , like no wonder they never had time to sort of come out and chat with us or sit with us for smoke , I like , because it takes a fucking lot of work to run a business or run a run aside , yeah , and I think , like coming from that there and then getting to where I am now , like and this probably plays

a big part in what I do and like definitely what Amelia is doing with undercover architect I honestly feel that homeowners don't see that as well , like they just see the their beautiful new home or innovation getting built and they have no understanding of how much work actually goes on behind the scenes , like I know , for us to get a job .

I want to start doing a few socials on this , because the last couple of jobs have been really taking a lot of notes on what's involved and like we got one job at the moment where I'm going to do some socials on to give people an indication . So it's this particular job , one of these jobs in particular .

We've gone through a pack process and we're up to as of last week , we're up to nearly 23 , 2,300 emails and we haven't even signed a contract on that job yet . But that's just and that's over that . We probably we met that quarter , that inquiry , about 15 months ago . Jesus man , I hope you can type far as well .

Yeah , and so like 2300 emails , like , and that that's just emails . So that's not the people's time to put those emails together or the information that's in those emails or what those emails are about .

pretty different ones and , you know , one's like a multi unit drawing , but both of them are between 65 and 70 hours to deliver the first round of costing , which is the bulk , the bulk of the . You know the quantities and things like that . And if you that's two weeks work to go back to the start .

He calls station back clients like you could say this to them and they just look at you and go yeah , but yeah , can I have it ? Can you have it to me in a week or two weeks and you like that ? It's two weeks work .

Yeah , you've still got to do a couple of revisions to get it to contract , and then all the time getting the contract together , and then is that including all the phone calls , design meetings and it's probably doesn't include phone calls , but the I we've we've long put a circle around 100 to 120 hours to get to contract .

That's , that's I reckon that's where it sits .

The best conversations is what we , the narrative we use in the office . But because I've been saying 100 to 120 hours for so long , I'm like we're actually measuring this now , like I want to .

I need to know this , but we , we go through it and we like I'm like I'll keep a spreadsheet on this with a couple of different tabs open , like just sort of you know , an RFI tab , who's got to send a quote who's got to sorry . Receive a quote from , etc . Etc .

It's got like 15 pages now yeah , we do say I think we use a sign Customer savings , things like like as in value management options , Because I mean no one's ever gone and no one's ever come with more budget than they need , like on a building project . So but they come with that .

So , regardless , like you don't know , you got to rough what it's going to end up . It's sort of roughly a job , but no one can know perfectly . So that's why we do the process and then we , we . When we do come with this information , they're almost overwhelmed , yeah . Like because they don't . They've just got so much to take in , which is good .

But then you're like it's almost like they're surprised that you've said it takes 60 or 70 hours to get to this and like but can you see where it goes ? Like they've got no chance .

I've thrown some numbers around for ages and obviously it depends on the size of the job and things , but I really believe that for a builder to do their job properly up to the building contract and be able to provide a very detailed , thorough proposal and go to go into a fixed price contract confidently is 100 to 140 hours and it's probably longer , and that's

that's multiple staff Like that's just not you or me , no , and I think it's super important for especially builders , but all trades , to be understanding what they're putting in in that preliminary part of the project , because most builders are doing it for free , like , and then they wonder why they've got no time .

Obviously we're doing the like we pushed the pack process and like you're charging the fee now to get paid for that service . But when you start to quantify that time and actually physically digest it , that holy shit like that's that's a lot . But , that's time that's taken you off doing other tasks keeping jobs running , keeping the business operating .

Turn my phone off , you know . Adopt the kids out for a couple of hours , do you ?

There's a few , a few contributors , but like you sit there and go like , are these people even serious or are they not ? And you're doing that , whereas I mean , if you , if you're going through that process , you've got their buy-in and their and more like it's important part of it .

But , more importantly , you've got their attention and they're actually listening to what you have to offer , cause I mean , who would have thought that 25 years of being on a job site might actually be valuable towards their project ?

You're so engrossed in their project and you go and they can do this . You've got this option and got that . Like I come up with all these ideas that could be good , and this isn't necessarily if we're , you know , if we've got our hand . This is like we've done a , we've charged a fee for a while before the pack .

But you know , sometimes they come to us with their own documentation and they still have the same same situation where you're sort of going right , how hard do we go at this ? You just have to bring it up for conversation . But you've invested in doing it because you like I'm going to give you as much value as I can . Yeah .

Um , so people's perception of what things cost , especially in the custom home renovations , new homes , uh , multi-rez town homes , those types of things are very skewed .

And then you have , like designs and architects that maybe haven't been taught or don't appreciate how much time's involved to do costings , ringing builders up and saying , hey , I'm going to flicker this drawing . Can you give me a call back in an air and tell me what it's going to cost ?

And then you get builders that are chasing their tail and and screaming to get the next job that , yeah , have that phone call or get that set of drawings , and say , oh , yeah , no , that'll be 600 grand or whatever yeah .

Without even putting any time or effort into it , which then , like you can understand why homeowners get pissed because they've from from a five minute phone conversation from a builder going oh yeah , no , we'll do that for 600 grand . They give the go ahead to the architect to complete drawings , the the architect adds all this detail to it .

That house then comes into a million bucks Like the whole process is just it's it's , it's so broken .

It's remarkably disjointed , like we would talk to clients and and people looking to go on a building journey , and I'm pretty candid about the fact that , like this is going to be a journey and it's going to be an emotional one , but it can be an enjoyable one or it can be a horrific one , and this is why we do what we do and there's even , like we , we

implement a lot of the things from live , life , build , obviously , a lot of the things that have flowed through it from dad in the good things that are not , and just experience in general . But you know , we , we really harp on about communication , communication , communication and and you know that doesn't make us the best communication as a word .

So things can go , you know . I just I believe that you've got there might be a few tears , no matter what . You know what I mean . You might get pressure .

You might have to extend your lease in the rental whilst getting , but whatever it's going to be , the only thing you can do is be as prepared for as possible and you're going to get the staples right and sort of know and expect you have your expectations in line with your builder and the in the level of trust .

Like it's easy to say trust your builder , but like seriously get to know them , go through the process , do what you gotta do and sign up knowing what to expect , like how it ? works . What you're going to like take some time , like everyone's in a hurry . I understand that you know , because when they decide , we're going to build .

We're going to build , How's it getting knocked down ? We want to be in three months or whatever it was , you know , six months . You're like I'm going to get a permit for three months , Like yeah . And then the finance thing . Yeah , there's .

There's just steps , a lot of small steps that need to be taken , and it's so disjointed , like I remember an architect bringing me down . Have you had a look at those plans . I said no and he goes check your inbox . And I looked at the inbox and he's like it needs to be under six 50 . And I'm like , mate , you're talking on the phone .

I just opened the email . What do you want ? What's this six 50 stuff ? What are you talking about ? And you know , I had a quick look- at him and yeah . In my head I already knew where it was going to go , as in like yeah , no , he's like what do you mean ?

We really want you to build it and like , yeah , but you want me to build it for your price . It doesn't work that way . Like we need you know , back to the back to the hundred hours conversation , like there's different sports , the volume stuff , like the project home it really like may as well be an RL and custom building is like tennis .

You know what I mean ? Like basically so .

Like , one of the most simple fixes that I believe well , I can't believe that designers and architects don't do is , like why are they not getting the data from completed builds , like when and look ?

This does get tricky because a lot of the time they're the build like one built might be built by a builder that is run a shit show and doesn't know his numbers . So they think that this , they've got this incredible project for six hundred grand and then they get another build at a price and it's 750 .

But this builders actually knows his number , still in business . This other guy's going bankrupt , like there's so many . There is so many pieces to the puzzle .

And there's also that side of it too , that clients can become a bit more educated , and everyone is in a hurry like take it from us , we're on the receiving end , Like you can be . You could have seen your architect in years gone by , senior architect , discussed your budget with them . They've drawn it .

You know , you've got engineering , soul tests , civil's drawn up all this sort of stuff and they get to the builder and then they go . What do you mean ? It's going to cost 1.5 . We told you a budget was one man or 1.2 . And you go . But who , like you know , like you , didn't come to me to ask with that ? And we're the ones that build it .

You know it's so disjointed and it can be seriously just , it can be a pleasant . It's still going to be a journey . It is , isn't it Like ? you know , we better own house . We moved out . We're in a

really ice cold rental during COVID we couldn't leave . It was horrible , but you know we had the end in sight and we knew what we're up for . And it was , wasn't that ? Apart from the house , it's been just a bit uncomfortable that period . It wasn't bad .

We knew what we were doing and you know we've had so many clients now who have , so we , all of our clients who have done our preliminary process we've had we did some metrics on it recently and the like .

The building timelines and the percentage of any builder requested variations is so minute , yeah , and you look at it at the end , whereas if you go down the wrong path and you get to it because people don't build things twice to check . But why do people sit there and go ? Oh , builders are expensive .

think about some of the jobs that we went a bit pear shaped and like people whinging about the costs and things . But the cost would have always ended up what it ended up . It's if we had to put in the time in the beginning to figure out because the variations were what they wanted .

So if we had to add conversations early on , those costs still would have been in the contract . Yeah , so it's not like the job just for some reason ended up more expensive . It's it costs what it costs to get what they wanted . It's just that they didn't know it at contract .

You know whatever it's going to be , but Well , I really like what you just said .

I was actually I don't know we had a cracking meeting this morning for a new project we got coming up next year . It was a . So with Aaron Greencase Designs , we , aaron , presented all the internal finishes , selections and things . So it's a couple of weeks off detailed documentation so we can do a proper detailed costings on the job . And I made .

I could give you a dozen examples of some of the things the client brought up at this meeting that if we weren't in this process would be variations when we got to site Like and it can be as simple as this . So one example was towards the end of the meeting .

This particular house is quite a large house and the the guys parents are going to be living in the house , so like it's actually got a bit of a wing that's designed as a parents retreat , and he just brought up at the end of the meeting that his father's got these 80s , like big Yamaha speakers with their each speaker's got their own so amplification system and

like they're right in , like when they have people over , like they just they love music . And he said , oh , and he bought this up . He's like , oh , I'm just curious , like my father's got these incredible speakers Like where do you think they'll go ? And so that created like a whole half hour conversation .

And like the guy bought up like showed us some photographs and things like that . And so now the designers got to change or work these speakers in because they're important to the family and they want to make sure they've got somewhere to be able to use them . If we weren't in this process , that would have come up when we're doing a walkthrough .

Like the frame might be up or whatever , and at some point it could be sheeted and these people could have bought up . Oh , we've got these awesome speakers . Like where are we going to put them ? And at that point it would have been a variation . Yeah . And that's just . That's like .

That's a simple example , but that is the problems that get solved when you build a collaborative team that works through everything before you get a contract .

The garbage mate , yeah , they're here , they're like I haven't met a builder that loves them at all and it's not because , like they throw everything out , Like it's a time thing . Builders are time-poor . Yeah , right . Typically , we're trying to resolve that . I think that's what this podcast today is . We're solving this problem today .

But no , no , like they are , they're time-poor . So we , you know , we have schedules for our projects , we're organised , we organise a weekly , we meet this and that and others , so those speakers , for example it would have been seamless . Now it's a variation , it probably requires your involvement .

The build like the builders' involvement as well , personally , because you're at the design meetings . But on site , if it's a variant , it's like oh , we're doing this , so what's happened ? So are you going to push your trades Like what if it delays the program ?

You know , you know it's not one phone call You're pushing , like could be four or five , the whole program , the whole program , ten trades . And do you think they're sitting at home on the couch waiting just because our Duane's come up with a variation ? So we'll just take a couple of days off until he's ready for us . Like , it just doesn't work that way .

So and the cost , the actual , true cost , to doing that last minute .

But like just using that simple example of those speakers like if that , if I wasn't doing this process and that job started , so it could , it could come up at slave stage and we're on site with a client and they bring it up and there's enough time to talk to the designer and maybe gets things moved around , variation might be quite small .

But if it come up at frame stage and you've already got walls up and you've got to move things , it's going to be even more . If it gets to a point where the house is sheeted and then it comes up and then you've got to remove walls , like it's even more expensive .

Or it gets to a point where the house is ready for fit off , like so there is so many things that play when it comes to variations and timings and all those types of things and I just obviously to me the pack process is in no brainer .

But , like you're saying , though , in a defense for the client , not that like they don't know , because you just don't know all they sees the cost and they want the speakers that they forgot them back because they hadn't been asked the question , and that's what it's for , and that is , yeah , like I said , the most for me now knowing what I know and doing what

we do , like the conversations that I had during those design meetings , when you're there as a team and like so that client was bringing that up just as a like as he saw that after that meeting , the things we'd gone through , he must obviously have been thinking about and thought , oh shit , there's no way for us to put those big they must be big speakers .

Look , there's quite often things that the client brings up that like myself or the designer architect might pick up and just start to think about and then during that meeting or even a following meeting , we'll say hey , you know that such and such you discuss .

Do you want that in or where's it going to go , whatever , like it just gives you so much opportunity to work through things while it's still at paper rather than having to stuff everyone around on site .

Like this whole , like all of a sudden just come out of nowhere , I'm going to go and take on the world and build a project shooting from the hip , but it doesn't work .

So it's an absolute no brainer . And look back to my conversation before I just think in the not too distant future I think it's going to be a much more collaborative and probably not probably most definitely improve everyone's experience from start to finish .

That's like we built the Quotees . You're now using Quotees Like what do you think of it ?

So Jess , who works with me in the office , she's like what we used to have the formatting and like she's got to put up with my spelling and stuff when I get my fingers on it , so it just grammat everything and she's like a hawk . I actually like sees everything . It's like the matrix . Yeah . I mean mine's . It's horrible .

So I sort of just go it's got to be right , because I'd like we use ours sort of for the onsite guys . That's a bit we call it out . We're not religious but we call it our Bible . You know the project Bible . So it's got to speak a couple of languages almost .

You know it's got to speak to the client , it's got to speak to our team and then deliver it that way . So I need to be involved with it and I love that part of it , but it is that high focus , time , the formatting and the structure that the software provides us , and just being able to drop scope into your quote .

But and we sort of tried to work or we have worked a lot of the way that it's set up is to try and help deal with a lot of contractual things , so the way it sets out your allowances and those types of things .

But it's like you got to put in a little bit of time to set it up , but like I'm not sure if you put it in there yet and built your template . But like man , once you get a template and you get it all set up , like you can smash out a quote like a very , very detailed quote quite quickly . You'll love to hear this mate , we .

Anyway , we were doing another one , the next one that came along and I said to Jess oh , how long do you think you need ? And she's like , oh , it usually takes us about , you know , a week and a half or something . So maybe by the end of this week we'll have it done .

I'd draft it out , the first draft of it , which I think was probably 85% of it in three hours . So and but um , it was . It was a learning curve for us as well . Like , um , because I mean Jess's role . She hasn't spent 20 years on jobs either .

So you know , I I'm the one who's doing the estimate in my head and thinking about the products and the how it's going to get built , et cetera . So , um , and we took that for granted too Like I'm like , oh , can you just punch out ? And I'm like that's , we can't do that . Like I have to be invited , I've done

. And I was like , wow , it's like 1130 in the morning . And I was like what am I ? going to do this afternoon .

We generally jump in early when we get a set of plans and we we smash out the bulk of it and then , by working through the bulk of it , it sort of gives me focus of maybe some trades I need to ring and check on things , or might create a list that Camille needs to send out to suppliers , or whatever it may be . But are you using the um ?

What did you start with ? The standard template of categories and items , or have you gone through and created all your own ?

So we ended up wiping the standard bunches that were there but um , replacing with very similar stuff . It's just how your business operates , which you would know like we would call certain things or manage certain products slightly different way , and so we sort of had a system as our cake , as it was , and we've replaced it with Quodes .

And just , I don't know , for me it just jogs my memory when I'm looking through a plan and like I'll work my way through the list and if I don't need it , just delete it , get rid of it whatever . And to me , like quite often . Well , I would say every job . There's something on that list , I go oh shit , actually I haven't seen that on the drawings .

I'll better go and look for that .

So if you've got all that stuff just rolling around in your head all the time and then trying to be on top , that's why it's to be bloody a mess doing these things . Like I spoke to a couple of live life build members and like that just go like proposals , just take us so long and then like yeah , that's what he's like .

I spoke to him at the live event . He's just like do you find that as well ? I'm like , yeah , and he goes oh , I'm not alone . He goes what's the solution ? I'm not sure yet , but , um , that was months ago , but yeah . So look it's , it's a good , it's a , it's a really good thing and it's .

It's just , it's just easy to use , and at the templating part of it and the formatting of it's , like it's a no brainer .

I've sort of realized now , like like we touched on before like to do proposals properly , you've got to be in that zone , and I I find it incredibly hard to get in that zone during the week , even when we have specific time blocked out to work on quotes . Yep , it's happened to me too , and so I I'm very comfortable now .

Like I quite I prefer to do my quoting on weekends , yeah , so , um , that might mean that I knock off early or start late During the week , spend some other time with the kids or whatever . But if the kids are um , that's bored or at one of the grandparents or whatever , I can get so much more done .

Like I can get more done in three hours on a Saturday morning than I can in five days during the week . Like , no phone calls , no anointing , no , just having other stuff to focus on , just sitting in the office , turning the computer on , open the plans , smash it out , done .

Um and the day can still go away with it , Cause you let something creep in like one little thing or whatever , and then it's it derails , or you just answer one email , or you know you get a text from the bookkeeper or something like that , and you like , you open your phone , you see , like you know , it's like just today , like seriously , just 15 minutes

before you rocked up today , like my day's gone awesome this morning .

I tried calling the client because that's the first thing we do , and yeah , 10 minutes before you walked in , I've just shot an email to the client saying hey , please see a touch video . Um , we've as late in condition we've hit rock . So and then the outline what will happen next .

So , and like , I had planned on chilling out for 10 , 15 before you showed up getting prepared for today . But it's building and that's that's what happens . We never , we never have me . Oh , it was nervous timing , mate . I've been waiting for this one for a long time . You're relaxing , now we're going to have to go for another hour .

It's funny what you're talking about .

I remember digging back those then and you know we would dig and pour footings in a day , you know , and I was just you cut and trench mess and just loved it . You know what I mean , yeah .

But I remember , like him , always having the client on notice in case we went over on concrete or we hit rock or whatever , and just always make sure that he'd get the chance and walk them around and show them . Like this is you know a long ago , yeah , but I mean what a what a start to to understand why you know what I mean .

Like , not everyone gets that sort of stuff and now that you know , the world's a lot smaller through , you know , Instagram , videos , youtube , all sorts of stuff , and then just this networking with other builders , like back in his day like he had some builder mates .

They'd usually do a project together but they probably weren't sharing like what to do , what not to do and stuff like that . Everyone used to keep their cards pretty fast at their chest .

And I mean even herself , she's a story , she's , she's , she's done a PhD , she was I'm going to get this wrong Jess , sorry , northoptist , which they know a lot about eyes , and she got sick of that industry . Just saying it was a shit show , basically yeah , and you know she Is she a client ?

It was a throwaway comment in an email and then she wrote an email back and it was this long winded like thing that was like well , actually , even if you mentioned it such and such , I'd be really interested if there was a position to apply for as a someone I could , somewhere I can formally apply for it and stuff like that .

I'm sitting there reading it going is this a piss take or what ? She's got one up on me here ? And Anyway , we just explored that further .

And then she's completely changed industries to come and to come and work for us , which is good , because I have long spoken about the lack of professionalism from top to bottom , like whether it's trades or , you know , offices or whatever just people's experience like can come up like several notches and it's not hard because there's so much low lying fruit , if you

will , for this exact you know , opportunity to do that and yeah , so she's come on board and yeah , she's just she's steamrolled the office and it's good .

really run with handing stuff over to her and putting systems and processes in place to allow her to do what she needs to do . Like I think it's fantastic because that's obviously freed your mind up to focus on other things .

Like I played footy on a Sunday , it was probably the only time we took off to come and watch me play . But yeah , certainly the team does that . And , like Ryan , who's a Supervisor's been with me . So I met Ryan at trade school . We did my

apprenticeship at the same time and it was funny because he I said to dad when I was working in dad's building business . I said , look , as a guy I think he's going to be good . He gets it . He said I'll come and work for you as long as you're still swing past for a beer as mates . You know it can't just be work .

And a few fast forward 17 years to now . That's pretty funny because it's pretty hard to pin down for anything but work . So he's like he's like the guy creeping around the job site at 530 in the morning , right , and he's list for the day , which is just remarkable .

You know , been with sort of two , three years and lots of stuff .

Like , you've got to have a team , You've got to understand your numbers , you got to make sure you're covering your costs so that you can employ other people to give you well , not just time back , but your life back . And you'll never , you'll never have an efficient , successful business if you're running around chasing your tail . The time no .

But it's true , you know I could take on more and more work and our process from the office and you know the administration through to the delivery , through to just simple things , like I remember when I introduced sending out agendas for the weekly site meeting and making sure that minutes were followed up .

And I remember Ryan looking at me like are you serious , can't I just have the meeting ? And you know what I mean . And I , you know I see the wights of his eyes and you know you ask him now and he's , he's like he's , he's loved doing it . He locks himself away for our afternoons , make sure he follows through with it all and it just flows through .

And because the structures there , like we can do , so much more work .

But what first , you know , put a little bit of protest up and I think we're pretty good mates , like we tell is he'll determine to get stuff to .

If like yeah , but we , seeing that now and they can see the benefits of it , and like we've , we've hired stuff off the back of it , like we , you know , if we're recruiting , we show them , you know the apps we use , the process , this is how we do , this is so . Then they're sitting there just looking , go on what . You know what I mean .

Like yeah , when you employ new people yeah yeah , we had one this year . Matt sort of said I asked him what's what sticks out from where else you've worked ? He just said it gets just communication , like it's it's . You know what you're up for . So and that's good and that's the aim is . I mean , we're business owners , that's our choice .

But to be able to go home and switch off , you know , or take the kids to sport or go on a holiday , like I am now or whatever it's going to be , is a remarkable thing . And but you want , like they may not always know . I try and let them know , but you won't actually want that for them as well , like guys .

This is why we have a pre start , yeah , so that you can set up , get your day nailed like , and then just just storm it and then go home , no run of control , and do it again the next day , and you know what I mean .

Like you went , once you've got that structure , like if so many builders and and traders but mainly builders if they put more a bit of time in themselves , understood they're running cost , their business started charging what they need to charge . Have the money in the business to employ the back end staff or the administration staff .

You can double or triple the volume of work you do with the same site team by having more structure and you're not running around like an idiot trying to keep up with all the administration stuff . Yeah , it is , it's a no brainer , it's yeah .

You're having those conversations and seeing them anyway , you might have structure that make them a time that fits nicely into your calendar for the duration of the project . Yeah , and there's , and like there's always stuff to go through . But even if it's , even if there's not , there is like I don't think we've had one yet .

There hasn't been anything to go through this job related or project related .

But you know , even on the ones that are largely nailed and maybe not much has changed since the week before or you know , a few things have fallen place , whatever , but it's a cup of coffee and a chinwag or whatever it's got to be , and you're building relationship yeah yeah , only know

you say there's , there's never a time there's nothing to talk about , like if , if it is lean on , you're always talking about the schedule of the job and what's coming up next and what's being done , like , and to me that is just so valuable for the relationship that you build with a client , like for them to see what's going on , to know what's going on , and

I like , again , I think it's that whole , it's just that structure of everything falling into place , like by doing that every week , like , how easy does it make your hand over ? Yeah , oh yeah .

We built for the client , if that works sense . So I guess what we're talking about if the clients on board and they value what we can bring to the table and we can offer them value in doing so- I'm happy to work with them .

I think the products we've seen come on the market in the last , even three years there seem to be just so many available out there now and doing that sort of thing , what you were talking about building building everything better to a better standard , not saying we don't build it , but the point is like , I guess , just injecting that enthusiasm around the

opportunities that are currently on the table and having the opportunity to actually put them into place .

So that , but through , yeah , we just , we would like to probably just get a couple of extra cogs in the wheel , I suppose , just to iron a couple of things out . But that's yeah that's so .

We still like I just I do like new homes and I particularly like getting like , can you ask a client , how do you , how do you live , or how do you ? You know what it's going to look like and you know you get all this , what they think you want to hear and they don't know , and we've sort of touched on that .

But when you actually push down on a little bit , it's really interesting .

I actually like seeing not changing people's minds , but seeing them sort of consider what you've got to say and then sort of go yeah , you know , you're right , we've double thought this , we don't need to do this , and just just alter it slightly and you've just improved that , that home for them .

And you know like a lot of people are built for we we term it that's their forever home . You know like the kids are going to grow up there , the schools down the road that the kids are going to go to when the high school's over there , and the sporting clubs there , and they're not going to move . Do you know what I mean Like ?

So I'm like , let's get it right .

products and that with clients and like I would say , now it's , it's like I'm not there to control anything .

I'm there to add value , but for me it's , it's been , it's quite often a really incredible journey through the process , seeing what the client sees , valuing and , like you just touched on it , like sometimes what they end up with is not what they thought they wanted . But you can't get to that point without having all those conversations .

used on the house or how it's getting used Like . There's so many things .

He's kind of like absolutely , and you know we just looked into that and you know I meant having drain seals and windows and things like that just to navigate the hard page areas outside , stuff like that and like they no one's talking to them about that . So it's you know putting lines on a page and you know draw it .

Give them their five bedrooms and whatever else they think they want , which is it's great , but do you get ?

So they had a little wine cabinet and I still kick myself that it's . It's . We could have refrigerated or something like . I don't know much about wine but you know what I mean .

I'm not a whine , I know nothing about wine , but we probably did our first seller 10 , 12 years ago and just through the conversation with the clients about the wine gave me enough that each time we've done one now I've gotten better and better at it Like , and so we've actually got one only two weeks ago come up and I wouldn't have known about like .

It was a first presentation of some hand sketches the designers done and they want to display some wine and they were the area where they think about displaying it Like it's it may end up with some really valuable wine in it , but it's it won't last if they do what they're talking about .

So I was able to have some input into that , which has now made them go away and they're going to have some discussions about well , how serious do we actually want to get with the wine ? So if I wasn't asking questions , I wasn't involved in the early process .

I might we'd go ahead and we'd be building that job and it'd just be a glass door on the underneath the set of stairs and they'd be throwing wine in it and it'd be useless .

Yeah , do you know what I mean , and it's like the speakers you mentioned before , that's their thing . You never know what everyone's thing is like . Yeah , you can just see .

You know people don't always know what they want and again , like you said , it's not not my job to tell them , but certainly got from the years of experience , the insight , the touchpoints that we come across in our industry . When you are so heavily in transfer , like you can't be an industry and if you're not just in it , like you know what ?

I mean , so all that stuff comes to the fore . That's what you get .

Like you've got to make it personal , like find out , like you just touched on , like every single client will have something that they see value in and if you can nail that , mate , you've got the job .

Like , and that's it .

Like my dad's knowledge of certain areas of the world would probably have come through his relationship with a building client yeah , you know what I mean Like and he's become curious and then deep dive a bit further on that in his own right and then off the back of obviously further conversations with them probably on a job site , but not about that job , and it

just goes from there and you just you can take so much away like they can from us from other people as well , obviously , but it is , it is a big part of it and finding those people and delivering the value that you're like in your field of expertise , which not all builders are good at celebrating themselves or promoting themselves .

But you know that's what happens , it is . It really is a case of that . You know , yeah , just finding that groove and then you love it . Yeah , I do and it's funny there's parts of it you love that are like . If you asked me 10 years ago it'd be like you know , I just am happy to frame or whatever .

I love hanging off a roof Like I used to be my thing and like you do you ? Just find yourself walking a top plate or something you know , just loving it , and you're out there dancing and , like my team now wouldn't even know that I dance , but that's what

we did . You know , ryan , my supervisor certainly seen it . So that's what you do . We just loved it . But , like it's different things you love now , like dang it , I still love to do that . I don't sure that you're allowed to do it anymore , but you're allowed to dance , not on top plates .

But you know , I make a point of in last month just trying to call a few different guys and girls you know from the crew and just go what's going on and you just like you sort of go , oh , I'm going to speak to Todd this week . You know , I'll try and get a hold of him and I'm like , oh , I've got 10 minutes in the car , this should be good .

Like 50 minutes later I'm sitting in my driveway and we're still solving the world's problems .

So thanks very much . Thanks very much for having me , mate . The pleasure is all mine . Are you ready to build smarter , live better and enjoy life ? Then head over to live like build dot com , forward , slash , elevate to get started .

Everything discussed during the level up podcast with me , dwayne Pierce , is based solely on my own personal experiences and those experiences of my guests . The information , opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only , and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk .

We recommend that you attain your own professional advice in respect to the topics discussed during this podcast .