#363 The Hidden Differences in How We Think

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Have you ever wondered what it's like to be someone else? Have you ever wondered how another person's brain works and how it's different from yours? This is something that has always fascinated me. And as humans, I do believe that we have much more in common than we do different. I think we have a lot more similarities than different. But the brain does work in fascinating ways, and I think the way that we think from person to person can be hugely different in some specific areas.

It's a little bit like the question of colour. I'm sure you've thought about this before. How do I know that the red that I see is the same as the red that you see? And maybe when I see a the colour red and I say that's red, perhaps you are seeing what I would call green, but you call it red. Does that make sense? It's impossible to prove what colour we are seeing.

Right, and you know, the the way that I see the world might be totally different from the way that you see the world. And in some ways there's no way to know the answer for sure. That's kind of weird to think about, but also maybe important as well. But in this episode, I'm gonna talk about a few ways in which our brains and our ways of thinking can be different.

Right? And you're gonna learn about what brain you have, what type of brain you have, and also how this helps you or hinders you when it comes to language learning. By the way, that verb to hinder is the opposite of help. It's to make something more difficult. So you'll learn about your brain type today and what that means for you and learning in the future. Okay, so let's get into it and I'm really excited to talk about

This is the Level Up English Podcast. The best place to come to level up and improve your English one day at a time. My name is Michael, your host and your teacher for the day. Let's get started. Okay, I should probably make a little disclaimer as well just before we get into it that Uh most of the things in this episode are commonly spoken about. They are things that I have heard about before. They have scientific names, so I'm sure that they are uh, you know, things that have been studied.

and the effects and what this means for you, that side of things, this is mostly just my ideas and I'm not presenting these as facts, right? So I'm gonna share some uh ways of thinking today which are studied and are known things, but the outcomes, the implications for you, these will just be my ideas. So I'm inviting you to also think about them as well.

Just keep that in mind as you listen today. So first of all, when I ask you to think about an apple, an apple, what happens in your brain? Do you see anything? So with that question there are some of you thinking Of course. What what do you mean, Michael? Why are you asking me? There are some of you who are thinking, my what do you mean see? It's in my brain. Of course I can't see it. What do you mean? So there might be some confusion on both sides of the spectrum with this question.

So I first experienced this concept, this idea when I was doing a guided meditation, uh and the the guide, the the the meditator, the person who was guiding the meditation, said, you know, imagine a dog in your mind and notice how you see the dog clearly. And I thought, I'm I'm sorry, what? What did you say? You s you see the dog? And then that prompted me to go online and research more about this. You know, what does what does he mean by you can see the dog in your mind?

So This is when I learnt about this idea of visualization and there's a there's a common uh I I I guess it's pronounced a fan aphantasia. Aphantasia, something like that. So aphantasia is the inability to visualize things in your mind. Right, so I'm gonna put a picture on YouTube up on the screen here to give a good illustration to show what I'm talking about. So when you think about an object

Some people will see the object in their mind. It will be a 3D image, they can rotate it in their mind, they can see colour, and it it it looks kind of real in their imagination. Other people it Totally nothing, right? So you think about an apple and you you know what an apple looks like. You you can imagine the concept of an apple, but you can't see it. You can't see the colour, you can't see the apple in your mind.

It's very difficult to talk about because of course when I say see, there is no eyes, we're not visualising with our eyes, it's inside the head, it's in the brain. So it's hard to you know we don't really have the words to talk about this in English, but if you see the picture that I'm gonna share, I think that should make it more clear.

And there are different levels to this as well. Some people might see an apple but it's maybe black and white. It's not so clear. Some people might see an apple, but it's a bit more like a cartoon. It's not it's not like super realistic. So, again, this is the kind of thing where it's very hard to study, I imagine, because we can't see what it's like in someone else's brain. I think a lot of these studies have come from people just

telling their experience. But you know, I spoke about this with my friends and they said, yes, when I think about an apple, I see the apple in my mind. To me, this is a very weird idea because I am one of these people who doesn't see anything, right? I can't see anything in my mind. Yes, I know what an apple looks like, smells like, tastes like, but When I imagine it, there's no image in my in my brain, right?

And again it's very hard to describe. If you don't know what that's like, it's very hard to describe. But this really was like a big wow moment for me, like a wow, that's amazing. What people are different in this way. So maybe let me know in the comments. Where are you on this spectrum? Are you a clear visualization person? Or are you like me with nothing in your brain when you think of an object? Or maybe somewhere in the middle.

I'd love to know your answers cause we can see how many of us are similar, right? And I mean this was quite a big uh relief to me in many ways because well, l let me get into the some uh implications of this. So what this means for you, these are my ideas now, but one of them is maybe difficulty reading and not being able to visualize what you're reading very clearly. So to get personal with me, I've always hated reading. I really don't like reading.

And I've tried reading a lot in the past and you know, I I've had habits before where I would read every day and I always enjoyed learning something through reading. But I never really enjoyed the process of reading. So that's why today I much more heavily rely on audio, audiobooks, podcasts. Yeah, I I think you know just a different way to get information right. But when I learnt about this idea or visualizing

It really made me feel a lot better, right? Because I realized maybe the reason I don't like reading is because I can't visualize things in my brain. So if the story is talking about a beautiful world with waterfalls and rainbows then my brain is not really in that place. Now I I I know what that means but I can't put my brain in that place, right?

So that made me feel a lot better that okay, maybe I'm not stupid, maybe I just have a different brain where reading is harder, right? And there there are of course many reasons why reading might be hard, but that could be one of them. So I think if that's you, it's good to have that understanding that Reading it may be harder for me, and that's okay. It doesn't mean I I should give up necessarily like Michael did, but it's good to understand that it might make it harder, right?

Uh another thing that it could mean is you might prefer Fact based way of learning or you might prefer logic over stories and images. So rather than learning through a story that makes you imagine something, you might prefer statistics and numbers, and that is more impactful in how you understand something. And I I think that's the case for me. I I generally would prefer facts rather than stories.

But yeah, that's very interesting to think about. So, you know, just w while you're listening to me, have a think about where you lie on the spectrum and you know, how that might affect your way of living and learning as well. And to make a language learning connection, you might learn better with examples and lots of repetition, and you might find it more difficult to connect new words to images. So if you are one of those people who struggles to visualize things in your head, then

Trying to learn the word dog and imagining a dog might be harder for you. So maybe you might have to rely more on translating or more on repeating again and again until you have that connection. I know for me personally, if I can experience it in real life, it makes it much easier to learn. So if I'm learning the word dog, In Japanese which is Inu. And I am playing with a dog and I'm saying, Oh, you're a cute Inu, are you a little Inu, bah bah

And I keep repeating that word with a uh real life connection, that's gonna make it much easier for me to remember rather than just imagining the dog. So that's one consideration that you might like to take away. By the way, I think I mentioned the word conceptual. Conceptual is the adjective of concept, the noun concept. So if something is conceptual, it's something based on mental ideas. A conceptual image is an image in your brain. It's not visual, it's conceptual.

Right, so that's a a good maybe slightly advanced word to know here. And when making the plan for this episode, one thing I realized while researching is how much we assume things. Now we assume that other people think the same way that we do. We assume that you know your red is my red. We we have these assumptions in life. And honestly, I think we do the same thing online as well. We assume that our data is private and we assume public Wi Fi is safe and fine. And most of the time.

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Okay, this next one is a huge one and I think this will split a lot of our audience, right? So I want to ask you, when you're alone, is there a voice in your head talking or Is your brain mostly quiet? You see where I'm going? So this is the the concept, the idea of an inner monologue. An inner monologue. So roughly, according to my research, roughly 30% to 50% of people experience this inner monologue. For me, I definitely have this inner monopoly.

I feel like I I'm in the minority on both of these, right, so far. But yeah, basically an inner monologue is just a voice in your head. It might be your voice or a little bit different from your real voice, but it's just a voice that's always talking. So you're going for a walk and the voice is going

Ooh, let's take a left here. Oh I could buy this thing later. Oh I must when I get home I've got to do this and I need to remember to turn off the fridge when I leave. Oh I should also buy that flight ticket for that holiday. It's always talking in your head. And this is something that people without this monologue might be surprised by. They might think, how can you live with a voice in your head that never stops?

But yeah, I I mean I can't imagine what it's like to not have a voice in your head. Like is it it must be very peaceful? I don't know. It is it it's crazy to think about that we can be so different in this ways and again it's also, I'm sure, very hard to study.

Like, you know, you you have to just trust people are telling the truth with their experiences. But I can use another example with meditation. I've been meditating for many years now, uh probably like ten, I think like fifteen years I've been yeah, about fifteen years I've been r regularly meditating. And despite doing it for so long, I've always struggled. And I think this might be one reason why. So again, learning about this inner monologue, this idea, was

kind of reassuring to me. It made me feel better. Because, you know, maybe I'm again maybe I'm not stupid. Maybe my brain isn't broken. Maybe people with an inner monologue have more difficulty meditating. And again, I don't if that is the case, I don't think that's a reason to stop. If anything, I feel like it's a reason to keep going, right? For the people who have trouble meditating are usually the people that need it more.

Right. So it's like if y if you have difficulty going to the gym, maybe that's even more reason to go to the gym. Who knows? But yeah, so that's one thing that I'm Yeah, I will sometimes I'll just sit down for ten minutes to meditate and the voice is constantly talking and yeah, it it can be a challenge. But on the other hand, I do really enjoy my own company.

No, I love just spending the whole day on my own going for a walk. I never feel lonely. I don't need to play music. I can just go for a walk and I'm totally happy with no one to talk to. Yeah, of course after a week I might I might get a bit lonely, but for a while I can be And y I I I do wonder if this is connected as well. Maybe I'm kind of friends with the voice in my head. Ooh, that that sounds like very crazy, doesn't it? I I I wonder if I'm sounding like a crazy person now.

Uh am I crazy? Yeah. But yeah, maybe because of that voice that's kind of talking in my head, it gives me something to do and I'm not bored or lonely. That's just an idea that I came up with, but I wonder if it's connected. And to strengthen this idea, you know, when I when I brought this idea up with my friends, one of my friends said she doesn't have an inner monologue. So her her head is

Quiet, I presume. She also said she hates being alone and she hates silence. And again it could be a coincidence this is anecdotal, which means it's just based on a story, it's not scientific. It's just two people as well.

But I wonder if that's a connection, you know, if you don't have a voice in your head, it might be more difficult to be alone because you've got nothing I don't know, no no voice. I don't know, that that makes sense to me. And You know, my friend is always playing music, and maybe that's why it's just to fill in that silence.

I don't know if it's connected but I I found that very interesting. So what this means for you. So something like meditation might be more challenging, but again it could be even more important. Who knows? That's just one idea. Um you may overthink conversations as well. You may need time to think more before talking or acting. So this is just based on my own feeling as well. Because I have that inner monologue that's always going inside my head. I maybe I'm kind of

thinking too much about what I want to say before I say it. Right. It's harder for me to be spontaneous and just talk without thinking And maybe it's because I have to listen to that voice first and see what sounds good and then say it out loud. Maybe. It could just be a weird quirk that I have, which is a quirk is a weird personality trait. But that's one idea I have.

I also wondered if this could also make reading harder, right? Because if you've got that voice in your head, you're used to listening to it, and when you're reading, you will maybe read at the speed of the voice. One day he went home and he saw a dog at that speed. But if you don't have this inner monologue in your head, then maybe you can read much faster because you're not waiting for the voice to finish. Hmm.

it it's very hard for me to imagine what a different brain would be like, but that does make me wonder. So again I think it's just a nice reminder that if you find something difficult Don't be hard on yourself because everyone is different. You know, I've been learning Japanese for fifteen years and I'm not fluent yet.

But I should be easy on myself because my brain is not the same as your brain, right? I think it's just a nice reminder for things like that. Here's another thing that I wonder if i it's connected to this idea. So when I try to sleep. I have to think about stories in my head to help me get to sleep. So

You know, I've got friends, again, this same friend as well, who can just sleep instantly. They go to sleep, their mind is empty, and they fall asleep. But for me, I need to kind of make some story in my mind. So I get sleepy and I will fall asleep. So usually I you know I I will never sleep. In less than fifteen minutes, it might take me thirty minutes to get to sleep. Because when I lie down, I'm super tired, but then my brain has to think about some

story, maybe I think about what I want to do tomorrow, just something relaxing, you know, some thing I want to do, some memory from the past. I need to think about this and once I get down this kind of idea or story, I will get tired and fall asleep. So t my understanding of this was it It's a way to quiet that voice in my head. So the voice is busy. It really sounds crazy to talk about this, but the voice is busy going through this story and uh That makes me sleepy.

Again, it's just my idea, but I wonder if that's the case. But let me know if that is the case for you. Uh let me know if you just sleep instantly or if you have to think about a memory or s you you have to think about something before you sleep.

Yeah, lots of weird differences that we might have, right? And just to make a connection to language learning now, uh this could mean if you have that inner monologue that you might need uh to mentally Rehearse phrases more in your head before using them.

So maybe everyone does this, I don't know. Again, let me know your feed up. We we c we can do a little you know informal study with our listeners here. So send a comment, let me know how it is for you, and that'll be a good way to learn a more about this. But for me, you know, if I'm practicing a new phrase in Thai, what was it, yesterday I went to buy a coconut and to drink, and I wanted to practice the word buy.

I want to buy a coconut. So I in my head I was going, Can I buy a coconut? Can I buy a coconut? Can I buy a coconut? And then I went to the lady and I said, Can I buy a coconut? So that was very helpful for me. That rehearsing, the repetition in my mind is what I needed. But yeah, I mean is that does everyone do that or is that more common if you have a monologue?

I don't know, but perhaps if you do have that monologue, the voice, you might need to rely on rehearsing more before you speak. Who knows? And unfortunately yeah, it may also mean that it's harder to avoid translating in your head because uh if you're very or his advanced word now, if you're very cerebral uh you're gonna be translating more. Cerebral is just a fancy way to say in your head. You use your brain, you spend a lot of time in your brain rather than out in the real world.

So if someone is always like thinking and they're not really focused on what they're doing, you can describe them as a cerebral person. It's kind of a nice compliment in a way. It's not that insulting. I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor. Hey, good morning. Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs... Most. Yep, they sure are. We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place.

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But okay. So honestly those two were the biggest ones that I wanted to mention today. I think they are fascinating and I'd love to hear your feedback on them. I do have a few bonus ones though that are maybe not so distinct. But they could also fit into this category of how our brains can be different. So the next one I c I've I came up with two ideas which is thinking to talk and talking to think. Right? So maybe there are two types of people in the world.

Uh so do you need to start speaking before you know how you feel about something or do you need to think about something in more detail? before you're ready to say it out loud and vocalize what you want to say. And I suppose this is maybe related to the inner monologue as well. Uh I I I can kind of see aspects of both in myself, to be honest. Uh when someone asks me a question in an English class, I definitely find it easier to answer when I'm writing out the question. So maybe this is a new

right to think category. I don't know, but I feel like that's somehow related, but it's much harder for me to think about the answer if I'm not writing it out or uh, you know, doing something to to uh Yeah, I know, visually maybe to to get the answer.

But yeah, I mean talking to think versus thinking to talk, hm I mean I've got a good friend who is definitely talking to think. Like, in order to find a solution to a problem, he needs to talk and talk and talk and then he knows how he thinks about I think I am more of a thinker, maybe I'm more cerebral again, so I might need to spend more time in my brain thinking about it before I'm ready to talk. So that

I feel like that applies to me a bit better. But what about you? Do you need to think in order to talk or do you need to talk in order to think? Then maybe you know, maybe there's an aspect of both as well. But if you do if you are a first person Talker? How can I say it? If you are a talk a talker, let's say if you if you're a talker, then maybe that means you need to speak more to discover new ideas.

If you have a problem in your life you need to talk it through with another person to find the solution. Honestly, I think that probably is useful for everyone. If you have a problem, just share the problem with someone else and you might find the answer when you're doing so. Uh, if you're a thinker, give yourself time to think before applying, you know. Don't feel that pressure to talk right away. I know in English you might feel pressure like oh I need to reply instantly but

Yeah, it it can feel awkward. I mean I know this as a podcaster. Dead air is something we want to avoid. Dead air is that silence when no one is talking. So that's why on a podcast I'm much more likely to go, um than in real life, because I'm letting you know

kind of subconsciously letting you know I'm still here, I'm thinking, but uh I I haven't got to the answer right yet. I if I didn't do that, maybe you'd think, you know, the podcast stopped playing, right? But Yeah I I I think a nice way instead of going um is hmm to me that feels more thoughtful. it's not uh it's a bit deeper. I mean I I kind of like that one. So yeah, don't feel b too much pressure to answer quickly. You can go hm

Let me think about that. And then once you've thought about it, then you can say out loud, you know, your true opinion. So yeah, I mean just understanding where you are on that level i is important I suppose to go easy on yourself. Um if you are a thinker, maybe you also benefit from long walk. If you if you have a problem, go for a long walk with no earphones or headphones. I know this is very hard to do, right? But don't listen to my podcast j just just for a a few minutes, just not for long.

And yeah, maybe that's a great way for you to get more ideas on uh or solutions to a problem. And for language learners, talk to thinkers might improve faster through conversations, so the more t the more talks you have, the faster you will improve, maybe. Think two talkers might need more time to prepare before practicing. So personally I like to

prepare before I talk. So if I meet my friend for language exchange, I might write a few things down. So okay, I really want to prepare and and use this phrase in my conversation. Yeah, writing it down beforehand and preparing makes it easier for me to use it in our chat. That could be you as well. So a great phrase to learn with this one is thinking out loud.

So thinking out loud is when you are just sharing an idea, but it's not something that you're sure will work. It's not something you really strongly believe. You're just sharing your ideas with the other person. So it's very commonly used in this structure. I'm just thinking out loud, but why don't we try this? Maybe it won't work, you know, I'm just thinking out loud. So it's sharing your ideas with someone but they have not been

uh finished or polished in your mind. I'm just thinking out loud. Hmm. I think I'll share one more bonus one now, and this one this may have a a name, I don't know, but this is having no sense of direction.

So when you go out for a walk, do you know where you're going or are you just hoping for the best, right? So yeah, I mean this is a fun one to include because I I'm I'm quite proud of my sense of sense of direction. Like when I go for a walk. Uh if I don't look at a map, I'm I'm pretty good at knowing where I am and getting back to where I came from. The one time that this failed me was I went to a a famous market in Bangkok

Chatterchak weekend market. It's a huge market. It's got like thousands of stores where you can buy clothing, food, all these different things there. It's it's huge. It's it's like a maze. And the first time I visited a couple of years ago, I really lost my sense of direct. Um it was actually really funny because it was kind of like a cartoon. It was like so unreal where I said, Okay, we came from this way, so that means if I want to find the exit, I need to go this way.

And I walked this way and I thought, wait a minute. I've been here before. I remember seeing this shop. I remember this plant. And I realized I just went in a complete circle. And I had n I thought I was walking in a straight line and somehow I went in a circle. It was the most confusing time in my life where I lost my sense of direction. How is that possible? So if you're going into like a busy market like this one in Bangkok, it may be impossible for everyone.

But yeah, I to me it is strange, like it's I find it shocking when people don't have a sense of direction. Like I I can't imagine what that's like. And I do feel like unlike the other ones we mentioned today, this is something you can definitely train. Uh I think the key is probably becoming more aware of landmarks, right? So I I mean you can ask yourself, you know, when you go out for a walk, do you rely more on landmarks or maps?

If you need maps, maybe y you don't have a great sense of direction. If you use landmarks, maybe you're quite good. But I I think that is a habit that you can learn. A landmark, by the way, is something that marks the land. It could be a big church, a red phone box, something quite unique that helps you remember where you have been, where you are.

And yeah here's my tip though, those this is what my my dad taught me when we used to go hiking. Uh if you want to remember where you came, when you're walking, regularly look behind you. and kind of r try to remember what that view looks like. Because often when you're coming back from somewhere, it looks totally different, even if you're on the same path because you're seeing it from a different angle.

You're seeing the back of a tree instead of the front of a tree. So if you keep looking back and try to take mental snapshots in your head like a camera, that's one of the best things I think in remembering where you are.

Yeah, I don't know, maybe there's also bonus tips like having awareness of where the sun is, roughly. Okay, the sun is over here, so if I turn right, the sun is behind me. That that helps or yeah, just kind of Also m maybe it's also memory, like remembering how many times you've turned right and left since you started your walk or drive.

So I think there's a few things there but I do think it's a skill that anyone can improve at, but I'm sure also there are different levels of natural abilities too. But yeah, that's an interesting one. I do have friends that are terrible with this and Uh I I say that we are? And they have no idea. So I it kind of makes me realize like, if I ran away right now you would be totally stuck, right? Like you're relying on me.

But I suppose in these da you know, these days it's great we have phones and Google Maps, so it's maybe a a lost skill is this sense of direction maybe. So one final phrase I can share before we end is to get your bearings. This is a great uh navigation phrase, to get your bearings. So if you get your bearings, it's understanding where you are in relation to other things, in relation to your environment.

So you're going h on a hike, you're climbing a mountain maybe, and you say, Let me get out of this forest. I I need to get on this hill so I can see the view and get my bearing. Once you do that, you go, Ah, okay, so actually I want to go this way, and we came from this way. Oh, and that big church over there is uh is you know this direction. Okay, so now I have my bearing.

So you know you you can look behind you when you're walking and someone says, What what are you doing? And you can say, Oh I'm I'm just getting my bearings a second. I'm just trying to learn where I am. Very useful phrase. What's half it Is that your antiperspirant? Uh yeah? Let me see that can. Aluminum beauty. Good spirit. I cannot pronounce that.

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Who deep breath at the end of all that talking as I often do. Uh I think we'll leave it there. I mentioned a few things um about the mind today. I hope you found it useful or uh interesting, maybe it is a better word. But I think today I will go to Spotify and say a quick thank you to some comments there. I don't have any new reviews on Apple Podcasts at the moment, and occasionally I like to go to Spotify.

I have to admit I am quite bad at keeping up to date with the comments here, but I will do my best to read and reply to everyone. Uh there was one from episode two eight one where Ash said I loved this episode. The second bias helped me out and uh take the risk for an opportunity of life. So that was on the episode Out Smarting Your Brain, where I talked about cognitive biases.

That was a really fascinating one and I'm glad you liked it, Ash. So thank you for commenting. I will heart your comment and maybe you will hear me read it today. I had to Quite a few. I had one here on episode three five nine who said Hi, good morning. My name is Muhammad. Uh I'm following up from Cameroon. I wish to improve my English and also learn more in uh order to express myself in society.

So I just thought I'd share that one because it's a nice comment and it's from Cameroon. That's amazing. We we've got listeners from Cameroon as well. So that that's exciting. So thank you very much for the comment and and watching. I had one more here from episode three five eight from Eleanor, who said, Hi Michael, great podcast and YouTube channel. Could you please help me? I couldn't quite understand what your hobby is and what kind of souvenirs you're looking for. Greetings from Germany

Dankershin for your comment on Spotify. Um I will uh I might leave a comment to say I I'm gonna reply to you now, actually. But I believe, if I remember that episode, my hobby was sewing. So this is when you're using a needle and thread and you're making something out of fabric. It could be clothing, uh bags, a scarf. Maybe a scarf is more knitting. But yeah, this is S E W So.

So this is my recent hobby. And when I spoke about the souvenirs that I like to find when travelling, it's things related to this. So often it's pieces of fabric. I got a lovely piece of fabric from Japan that I am currently making into a bag. It's a nice way to remember my trip. Uh fabric, by the way, is a piece of material like this T shirt is made of fabric.

Um also patches, so I I don't have any to show you in my area now, but a patch is some kind of image that you can use an iron to press it into some clothing, maybe, and it it leaves the image on the clothing. So it's kind of like a little badge that stays on your clothes. So I often buy them when I'm travelling too and yeah, that's also fun to add to something I'm making. So yeah, that that's my hobby. Thank you for the question that Eleanor. Um

a good a good birthday present if if you're thinking of that for me. I'm just kidding. But okay, let's end with a quote now from Edmund Wilson, a very relevant quote, and this is no two persons ever read the same book. In other words, There's no people, there's no two people who have ever read the same book. And this is because everyone has a different mind. So what I take from one book is totally different from what you take from the same book.

So we you know we're we're reading the same words, but the way that we interpret it and understand it is different. So this is a perfect quote today because it It talks about how our minds are different. No two persons ever read the same book. A lovely reminder. Well thank you so much for watching. Uh regardless of what kind of brain you have, all brains are welcome here. Thank you and I'll see you next week. Goodbye.

You have been listening to the Level Up English podcast. If you would like to leave a question to be answered on a future episode, then please go to levelupenglish.screw. Forward slash podcast. That's leveluppenglish.school slash podcast. And I'll answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening. It's tax season, and at LifeLock we know you're tired of numbers. But here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible.

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