Hey everyone and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. You know the drill, you can listen to this show ad-free and get full access by becoming a premium member on Apple Podcasts or over on our website, themessypodcast.com. It's great to have you here for season one, How This Book Will Benefit You. Yeah. In this deep dive, we're going to be talking about Mel Robbins' The Let Them Theory. Yeah. You sent over some excerpts from that book. Right.
And we're here to help you unpack the most impactful concept. Absolutely. Love it. So where do we even begin with this? Oh, it's so good. The core of this book is really understanding. What we can and can't control. Yes. And how that impacts like. Everything. Everything. From our relationships to our own well-being. Yeah. So let's start with Mel's personal story. You know, she was over $800,000 in debt at 41, facing career setbacks.
and her husband's restaurant was going under. Oof, that's a lot. Talk about a messy situation. Yeah, I can only imagine the stress. So how did she turn things around? Well, her initial breakthrough was the five-second rule. Oh, yeah. Five, four, three, two, one. That's right. Yeah. That five, four, three, two, one countdown to push past hesitation and take action. Okay. But the let them theory builds on this by adding a really crucial element acceptance.
Okay. It's a two part equation. Let them plus let me. So it's about taking action, but also like knowing when to surrender. Yes. It sounds almost paradoxical. It does, doesn't it? Yeah. But think of it this way. You're acknowledging what's outside of your control. Okay. And then you're focusing on what you can influence your actions, your mindset, your choices. Okay. Can you give me an example? Yeah. Because honestly, I'm a little lost on how this actually plays out in real life. Totally. So.
Mel shares this really relatable anecdote about her son's prom night. Oh, fun. So imagine the scene. It's pouring rain. Okay. There are 20 teenagers in tuxes. Oh, no. And no dinner reservations anywhere. That's every parent's prom night. nightmare right and Mel being Mel is initially trying to fix everything the rain the lack of reservations even her son's choices for the evening oh bless her heart but then she has this realization she's fighting a losing battle
Okay. She's trying to control things she simply can't. Right. So she lets go. She lets go. Gives her son some money for tacos. Okay. Watches him head out into the downpour with his friends. Oh, wow. And they... all end up having an absolute blast. So the lesson here is that sometimes the best laid plans should just be scrapped in favor of tacos in the rain.
Exactly. It's about choosing where you focus your energy. Instead of spiraling over what you can't change, you shift your attention to what you can't, your attitude, your response to the situation. Yeah. And often that opens up possibilities you never even considered. That's great. I'm starting to see how this could be like a game changer. Yeah. So is the book basically like a how-to guide? Yeah. For applying this let them theory to all sorts of situations? That's a great way to put it.
So Mel dives into eight key areas where we tend to get stuck trying to control the uncontrollable. Okay. And she doesn't just offer fluffy feel-good advice. She backs it up with insights from psychology, neuroscience. Even ancient philosophy. So it's like a blend of modern science and timeless wisdom. Yeah. All geared towards helping us just let go of the reins a little. You got it. Okay. So let's start with something we all struggle with. Okay. Stress management.
Okay. Do you remember Dr. Aditi Nurikar's book, The Five Resets? Yeah, it's a great read. It is. All about rewiring your brain for less stress. Yes. Yeah. Well, she points out that when we're stressed, our brain's basically hijacked by the amygdala. which is the fear center, we become reactive, not our best selves. And the let them theory offers a way to hack this stress response. So instead of getting caught in that stress spiral, you acknowledge the source of the stress. Yes.
But shift your focus to your own reaction. Precisely. So Mel talks about using deep breathing to activate the vagus nerve, which can calm the whole nervous system down. Right. But the real shift happens when you combine that with... Let me. It becomes a conscious choice about how you want to show up in that stressful moment. Okay. I think I'm seeing the pattern here. Okay. Let them acknowledges what's outside your control. That's right. Let me.
Yeah. Is about taking ownership of your own actions and mindset. Exactly. And this applies beautifully to career challenges as well. Oh, yeah. Especially when dealing with a difficult boss or a job that just isn't fulfilling. Mel encourages us to let them try and hold us back with their limited vision. So instead of wasting energy on resentment or frustration, you channel that into finding a better opportunity. You nailed it. Okay. Mel reminds us that there are always other jobs.
other company other paths we can take yeah let them keep their small-minded perspective let me go create something better for myself i like it that's a powerful way to reframe things yeah what about family dynamics oh that could be a minefield Believe me, Mel gets into it.
Okay. Step-families, in-laws, dealing with parents who just don't get you. Right. She emphasizes the importance of understanding everyone's frame of reference. So recognizing that everyone's coming to the table with their own bad... Yes. Their own experiences that shape their opinion. Yes. Even if those opinions clash with ours. Exactly. Yeah. And that understanding can lead to more compassion, less conflict. Right.
So, for example, Mel shares how her own mother initially disliked her husband. Oh. It wasn't until later that she realized her mom was simply afraid of losing her daughter to a faraway state. Oh. Yeah. That puts a whole new spin on things. Right. have their opinions even if they're frustrating yes and let me focus on building understanding and connection that's the heart of it and this applies to those dreaded family gatherings too don't even get me started
You know, stop trying to control their reactions. Let them think what they want. Let me just show up as my authentic self and enjoy the time I do have with them. I really like that I'm starting to see... how liberating this could be. Yeah. It's like giving yourself permission to prioritize your own peace of mind. Yes. Over seeking their approval. Absolutely. Yeah. Mel puts it perfectly. Okay. Someone is always going to be disappointed by the decision.
that you make don't ever let it be you that's disappointed mic drop wait okay let's talk about comparison yes the beast we all struggle with oh yeah especially in the age of social media absolutely how does the let them theory help us tame that So comparison is a tricky one. Yeah. Mel breaks it down into two types, torturous and inspirational. Okay. So torturous versus inspirational. Yes. Yeah.
Torturous comparison is when we fixate on things we can't change. Okay. Like someone else's natural talent. Yeah. Or effortless charm. It's that why wasn't I born like that trap. I know that trap all too well. Oh, totally. Social media definitely amplifies that. It does. Yeah. But Mel's advice is to let them have those traits. Okay. You can't change your DNA, but you can control your effort. Okay.
Your choices, the actions you take to build your own unique strengths. Yeah. Now, inspirational comparison, on the other hand, is about learning from others' successes. So instead of feeling threatened by someone else's achievements, you see them as a roadmap. Exactly. Like, okay, if they can do it, maybe I can too. Yeah, their wins don't diminish your potential. They actually expand it. Okay. It's about flipping that jealousy into inspiration and using their example to fuel your own growth.
I can get behind that. Yeah. Let them be successful and let me learn from their journey. Yes. Makes sense. Right. So where do we go from here? What other messy situations does the let them theory help us navigate? Well, Mel dives into how this concept can translate.
Which, let's be honest, can be just as complicated as romantic relationships. Oh, tell me about it. Yeah. It's like the rules of friendship completely change once you're out of school. Right. So Mel highlights three pillars of friendship. Okay. Proximity, timing and energy. Okay. Proximity being physically near each other. Okay. Timing meaning. Being in similar life stages. Yeah. And energy referring to the vibe you each bring to the friendship. Makes sense. Yeah. So how does let them.
apply here is it about accepting that some friendships just naturally fade yes as our lives change exactly so instead of clinging to the past or trying to force a friendship that no longer serves either of you right you let them go their own way Okay. And this frees you up to focus on creating new connections. That can be really tough though. It is. Especially if you're not the most outgoing person. Yeah. Putting yourself out there can feel so awkward and vulnerable.
Mel addresses this head on. Yeah. She emphasizes the importance of being proactive. Okay. Of going first in initiating conversations and invitations. Right. She actually moved to a new town and felt completely lost socially. Wow. But she flipped the script. by actively engaging with her community, introducing herself at coffee shops, striking up conversations at events. Oh, that's brave. Yeah. So even small interactions, like learning someone's name at the grocery store, can potentially blossom.
into something meaningful. Exactly. It's about creating those opportunities for connection, even if they feel a little awkward at first. So Mel even suggests a simple habit every time you're out. Make it a point to learn at least three new names. That's a fun challenge. Yes. I'm going to try that. Do it. So let them be elusive and let me actively build my own tribe. Yeah. I'm liking this.
It's about taking ownership of your social life. Yeah. Creating the kind of connections that light you up. Okay. But the let them theory doesn't stop at friendships. oh no it also helps us navigate those tricky situations where we wish someone else would just change Oh, man. Don't get me started. Right. We've all been there. Yes. Whether it's a partner, a family member, a friend. Yes. It's so tempting to try and fix them or pressure them into being different.
It is. But Mel brings in some powerful insights from neuroscience and psychology, explaining why our pressure tactics often backfire. Yeah. So first, change is hard. Yeah. It requires effort. Willpower facing discomfort. Right. Things we tend to underestimate when we're focused on how we want them to be different.
So instead of just pointing out the obvious, like, hey, you should really quit smoking, it's about recognizing the internal struggle they're facing. Exactly. Second, everyone thinks they're the exception. Right. We all believe we're special that the rules don't apply to us. Of course. So when someone pressures us to change, it triggers defensiveness. Sure. Other people might need to eat healthier, but I'm different.
yeah and third pressure creates a power struggle oh yeah it triggers that hardwired need for control making us dig in our heels even more So instead of inspiring change, we're actually fueling resistance. Yes. Not very effective. Nope. And Mel highlights that our desire to help can sometimes stem from our own anxiety and need for control. So we might be trying to manage their behavior to alleviate our discomfort. Ouch.
That's a tough one to admit. Right. But I've definitely been there. We all have. But here's the good news. Okay. While we can't control someone else's behavior, we can influence it. Okay. And that's where Let Me comes in. So how do we do that without falling back into those pressure tactics? So MEL offers a really practical tool, the ABC loop. What's the ABC loop? It stands for Apologize, Back Off, Celebrate.
Break that down for me. What does that actually look like in practice? So first, you apologize for any past pressure or judgment. This isn't about taking the blame. It's about acknowledging how your attempts to help might have been hurtful. Right. And resetting the dynamic. Okay. Then you back off. Back off. Give them the space to process their own feelings and motivations. Okay. Without.
feeling judged or controlled so no more nagging or guilt trips exactly and finally you celebrate you celebrate you focus on acknowledging even small steps in the right direction making change feel more rewarding for them i love this so instead of focusing on what they're not doing yeah
You highlight their efforts and progress no matter how small. Precisely. Okay. It's about shifting from a place of criticism and control to a place of support and encouragement. Yeah. Let them stumble and figure things out at their own pace. Let me focus on creating a supportive environment that inspires growth. This is making so much sense. Good. It's like a complete reframing of how we approach those tricky situations.
But the let them theory doesn't stop there, right? It does not. Mel takes it even deeper. Deeper. Into those really challenging scenarios where someone's going through something truly difficult. Yes, she does. Okay, now those are situations where letting go feels almost impossible. It can. I'm eager to hear how let them...
applies in those contexts. I think you'll be surprised by how powerful it can be even in the face of those big messy emotions. Let's start with dealing with someone else's emotional reactions because let's be honest sometimes people just lose it. Yeah.
We've all encountered those adult tantrums. The silent treatment, the guilt trips, the over-the-top reactions that leave us feeling drained and frustrated. Oh, tell me about it. It's like, come on, we're adults here. Can't we just talk this out rationally? Yeah.
But here's where Mel's perspective is so insightful. She reminds us that a lot of adults simply haven't learned how to process their emotions in a healthy way. So it's not necessarily malicious. It's more like a lack of emotional maturity. Exactly. And here's the key. It's not our responsibility to manage their emotions.
We can't control how they react, but we can control how we respond. Okay. So Mal encourages us to let them have their tantrums, their silent treatments, their drama. Okay. It's about detaching from that need to fix or appease them. Easier said than done though.
It is. How do you avoid getting sucked into their emotional vortex? That's where Lemmy comes in. Okay. So Mel reminds us that emotions are simply chemical bursts in the brain. Okay. They rise up, and if we don't react, they naturally subside within 90 seconds.
Wow. So let me observe those emotions without getting swept away. Let me create space for those 90 seconds to pass. Wow. That's a completely different way of looking at it. Yeah. Like taking a step back and saying, OK, this is happening, but it doesn't have to define. experience yes and she offers some practical tips for navigating those moments deep breathing mindfulness techniques even simply removing yourself from the situation if needed
Okay. It's about prioritizing your own well-being. It's not about being cold or uncaring. It's about setting healthy boundaries so you don't get depleted. Exactly. You can't pour from an empty cup. You can't... Support someone else if you're constantly draining your own emotional reserves. Right. And this leads perfectly into Mel's advice on supporting loved ones through truly difficult times. Okay. Like addiction, mental health struggles, or grief.
Okay, this is where things get really complicated. Yes. You want to help, but you also don't want to enable unhealthy behaviors. Right. Where do you even draw the line? Mel doesn't sugarcoat it. Okay. She starts by emphasizing a hard truth. What? We can't want their recovery more than they do. That's tough to hear. Yeah. But it's so true. You can't force someone to get better. You can't. And our attempts to rescue them can actually stem from our own fear and need for control.
OK. We might be trying to manage their problems to alleviate our own anxiety. So instead of empowering them, we're actually keeping them dependent. It can happen that way. So Mel actually brings in wisdom from Dr. Robert Waldinger, the director of the Harvard study of adult. development, he emphasizes the importance of letting people learn from life. Right. Even if it means experiencing painful consequences. So sometimes tough love is the most loving approach. It can be.
It's about trusting them to define their own strength, even if it means stumbling along the way. Exactly. And it's about focusing on what we can control our own reactions, our support and our unwavering belief in their ability to overcome challenges. OK. So it doesn't mean doing nothing. Right. It means offering support in a way that. empowers not enables I'm starting to see how this applies yeah it's about finding that balance between offering support and allowing them to own their journey yes
And this leads into Mel's insights on relationships, particularly navigating the messy world of dating and heartbreak. Ooh, this is a topic near and dear to my heart. I've definitely had my fair share of dating disasters. Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break. We're so excited to have a sponsor for this episode that embodies those very values. Online therapy. Yes.
They are fantastic. Online therapy is such a valuable resource for anyone who's prioritizing their mental health and well-being. And they make it so easy. I know. Personalized therapy sessions, all online. Accessible wherever you are. And they have these weekly live sessions. Plus, you can message your therapist anytime. It's not just limited to that once a week appointment.
And for anyone worried about the cost, they have financial aid options. They really are committed to making mental well-being accessible to everyone. Online therapy starts at just $40 a week. And we have an exclusive discount code just for our listeners. That's right, use code THERAPY20 at checkout to get 20% off your first month.
That's an incredible deal. You can find the link to online therapy in our show notes. Definitely check them out if you're looking for support on your personal growth journey. They're an amazing resource. And we're so grateful to have them as a sponsor. Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. So Mel starts by acknowledging the challenges of modern dating. Okay. The apps, the ghosting, the pressure to present this perfect image. Yeah, it can feel like a minefield out there. It can.
But Mel encourages us to be brave enough to be ourselves, to choose authenticity over playing games. So show up as your true self and let the chips fall where they may. Exactly. And she stresses the importance of recognizing... when someone's not interested, of not wasting time chasing those who aren't reciprocating our feelings. Oh, that's so hard, though. It's easy to get caught up in the what-ifs and make excuses for their behavior. Yeah, but Mel reminds us that texting is easy.
If someone truly wants to be with us, they'll make the effort. Let them not text back. Let them cancel plans. Let them string us along. Their actions speak louder than words. That's a good reality check. Yeah. It's about valuing yourself enough to walk away from those who don't see your worth. Exactly. And this leads to her advice on choosing the right relationship, recognizing that no relationship is perfect. So you found someone amazing.
But you're facing a major disagreement. Yeah. How do you know if it's a deal breaker? So Mel offers this powerful question. Okay. Will you regret breaking up with them more than you'll regret compromising on this issue? Wow. That's a tough one. Yeah. But it really forces you to get real with yourself about what you're willing to tolerate.
It does. And she reminds us that research shows 69% of relationship problems are unsolvable. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's not about finding someone perfect. Right. It's about choosing someone whose imperfections you can live with and whose values align. It's about finding someone you can grow with, not someone you're constantly trying to change. Yes. And this leads to Mel's advice on surviving heartbreak.
Okay. Which we all know can be utterly devastating. Oh, I've been there. Yeah. It's like the world has ended and you'll never feel whole again. Right. But Mel's perspective is so refreshing. She reminds us that heartbreak is a healthy response to loss. Okay. body's way of processing and healing. So instead of trying to numb the pain or rush through it, you actually allow yourself to feel it fully. Exactly. So Mel encourages us to...
Let me grieve, cry, feel the full range of emotions. It's about honoring the pain instead of trying to bypass it. That's counterintuitive. Yeah. But it makes sense. You have to process the loss before you can truly move on. Yes. And she offers some practical tips for navigating those early stages. No contact for 30 days, creating new rituals, reaching out for support, filling your calendar with activities that bring you joy. So it's about taking care of yourself. Yeah.
both emotionally and practically, as you navigate the healing process. Precisely. And she offers a powerful reframing. Okay. What if you saw this breakup as bringing you one step closer to meeting the love of your life? Wow. That's a powerful shift in perspective. Yeah. It's about...
Choosing to see the opportunity in the midst of the pain. Exactly. And that brings us to Mel's final message, which I think is the most important one. The relationship we have with ourselves. I'm all ears. This is something I'm constantly working on. It's a journey for all of us. And Mel reminds us that the let them theory isn't just about managing relationships with others. It's about creating a healthy relationship with ourselves. It's about honoring our own needs, setting boundaries.
giving ourselves permission to pursue our dreams, even if it means disappointing others. So it's about finally giving ourselves the love, respect, and kindness we so freely give to others. Yes. It's about recognizing that we are worthy of our own love and attention. Okay. And by prioritizing our own well-being, we actually create the foundation for healthier, more fulfilling relationships with everyone else in our lives.
This has been such an eye-opening deep dive. It has. The Let Them Theory really is like a framework for creating more peace, joy, and authentic connection, not just with others, but with ourselves. Absolutely. It's about recognizing that we have more control than we think, but it's a different kind of control. It's about choosing our mindset, our actions, and focusing on what truly matters. Okay. So Mel leaves us with a powerful question. What is one thing you can let them today to create space?
It's such a great question to ponder. To our listeners, we encourage you to explore... the let them theory and discover the freedom and empowerment that comes with letting go and choosing your own path. Yes. Thanks for joining us for this deep dive. Thank you. We'll be back next time with another fascinating book and practical insights to help you navigate the messy realities of life and create more meaningful connections.
So let's dive into Mel's insights on relationships, particularly navigating the messy world of dating and heartbreak. Ooh, this is a topic near and dear to my heart. I hear you. I've definitely had my fair share of dating disasters. Haven't we all? Oh, yeah. So Mel starts by acknowledging...
the challenges of modern dating okay you know the apps the ghosting the pressure to present this perfect image yeah it can feel like a minefield out there it can but Mel encourages us to be brave enough to be ourselves to choose authenticity
over playing games. So show up as your true self and let the chicks fall where they may. Exactly. And she stresses the importance of recognizing when someone's not interested, of not wasting time chasing those who aren't reciprocating our feelings. Oh, that's so hard, though. Yeah. It's easy to get caught up in the what-ifs and make excuses for their behavior. It is. But Mel reminds us that texting is easy. If someone truly wants to be with us, they'll make the effort.
yeah let's just let them not text back let them cancel plans let them string us along yeah their actions speak louder than words that's a good reality check yeah it's about valuing yourself enough to walk away from those who don't see your worth. Exactly. And this leads to her advice on choosing the right relationship, recognizing that no relationship is perfect. So you found someone amazing, but you're facing a major disagreement. How do you know if it's a deal breaker?
So Mel offers this powerful question. Yeah. Will you regret breaking up with them more than you'll regret compromising on this issue? Wow. That's a tough one. Yeah. But it really forces you to get real with yourself about what you're willing to tolerate. It does. And she reminds us that research shows 69% of relationship problems are unsolvable. Oh, wow.
69%. So it's not about finding someone perfect. Right. It's about choosing someone whose imperfections you can live with and whose values align with yours. It's about finding someone you can grow with. Yes. Not someone you're constantly trying to change. Exactly. and this leads to mel's advice on surviving heartbreak which we all know can be utterly devastating oh i've been there it's like the world has ended and you'll never feel whole again i know
But Mel's perspective is so refreshing. Okay. She reminds us that heartbreak is a healthy response to loss. It's our body's way of processing and healing. So instead of trying to numb the pain or rush through it, you actually allow yourself to feel it fully.
Exactly. Mel encourages us to let me grieve, cry, feel the full range of emotions. Okay. It's about honoring the pain instead of trying to bypass it. That's counterintuitive, but it makes sense. Yeah. You have to process the loss before you can truly move on. Exactly. And she offers some practical tips for navigating those early stages. No contact for 30 days, creating new rituals, reaching out for support, filling your calendar with activities that bring you joy.
So it's about taking care of yourself. Yes. Both emotionally and practically as you navigate the healing process. Precisely. And she offers a powerful reframing. Okay. What if you saw this breakup as bringing you one step closer to meeting the love of your life? Wow.
That's a powerful shift in perspective. It's about choosing to see the opportunity in the midst of the pain. Exactly. And that brings us to Mel's final message, which I think is the most important one. The relationship we have with ourselves. Okay. I'm all ears. this is something I'm constantly working on it's a journey for all of us
And Mel reminds us that the let them theory isn't just about managing relationships with others. It's about creating a healthy relationship with ourselves. It's about honoring our own needs, setting boundaries, giving ourselves permission to pursue our dreams, even if it means disappointing others.
So it's about finally giving ourselves the love, respect and kindness that we so freely give to others. Yes. It's about recognizing that we are worthy of our own love and attention. Yeah. And by prioritizing our own well-being. We actually create the foundation for healthier, more fulfilling relationships with everyone else in our lives. This has been such an eye opening deep dive. The let them theory really is like a framework for creating more peace, joy and authentic connection.
Not just with others, but with ourselves. Absolutely. It's about recognizing that we have more control than we think, but it's a different kind of control. Right. It's about choosing our mindset, our actions, and focusing on what truly matters. Okay. So Mel leaves us with this really powerful question. Okay. What is one thing you can let them today to create space for? Let me and empower your own choices.
That is such a great question to ponder. To our listeners, we encourage you to explore the let them theory and discover the freedom and empowerment that comes with letting go and choosing your own path. Thanks for joining us for this deep dive. We'll be back next time with another fascinating book and practical insights to help you navigate the messy realities of life and create more meaningful connections.