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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfaremedia.org

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfaremedia.org.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Episodes

Lawfare Archive: ‘How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter’ with Kate Conger and Ryan Mac

From September 19, 2024: On April 14, 2022, New York Times technology reporters Kate Conger and Ryan Mac woke up to a stunning four-word tweet from Elon Musk’s Twitter account: “I made an offer.” Having long covered the technology and social media beat, they read Musk’s terse post as the “unbelievable but inevitable culmination of two storylines we had pursued for a decade as journalists in Silicon Valley.” On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien spoke to Conger and Mac about t...

Dec 24, 202543 min

Lawfare Daily: Civ-Mil Relations: Where Are We Now and How Did We Get Here?

Loren Voss, Public Service Fellow at Lawfare , sits down with Kori Schake, senior fellow and the director of foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, and Carrie Lee, senior fellow with the German Marshall Fund's Strategic Democracy Initiatives. They discuss how they assess a healthy civil-military relationship, the current state of civil-military affairs, potential unlawful orders, and what we should watch going forward. Lee and Schake outline the frameworks they ...

Dec 23, 202553 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Dec. 19

In a live conversation on YouTube , Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, and Eric Columbus and Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss to discuss the government’s failure to re-indict New York Attorney General Letitia James, a jury finding Judge Hannah Dugan guilty of obstructing immigration agents, a legal challenge to the White House ballroom construction, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administ...

Dec 22, 20251 hr 44 min

Lawfare Archive: Why Pakistan is Deporting Afghan Refugees with Madiha Afzal

From November 20, 2023: Over the past few weeks, the country of Pakistan has pursued an aggressive wave of deportations targeting thousands of Afghan refugees, some of whom have been in Pakistan for generations. Many fear that this move will add to the already precarious and humanitarian situation facing Afghanistan. But the Taliban regime, for one, has reacted in a way few expected. To talk through these refugee removals and their ramifications, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down ...

Dec 21, 202543 min

Lawfare Archive: Memorializing Babyn Yar after the Russian Invasion of Ukraine

From July 1, 2022: When a Russian missile recently struck a TV tower in Kyiv, near Babyn Yar, the site of Nazi mass murders during the Holocaust, some saw the attack as a potent symbol of the tragic occurrence of violence in Ukraine. To talk through the historical significance of the attack, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Maksym Rokmaniko, an architect, designer, entrepreneur, and director at the Center for Spatial Technologies in Kyiv, and Linda Kinstler, a PhD candidate in...

Dec 20, 202545 min

Lawfare Daily: ‘Deportation, Inc.’ and the Rise of the Immigration Enforcement Economy

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with SITU’s Deputy Director of Research Gauri Bahuguna, Detention Watch Network’s Advocacy Director Setareh Ghandehari, the American Immigration Council’s Policy Director Nayna Gupta, and Just Futures Law’s Executive Director Paromita Shah to discuss the rise of the immigration enforcement economy following the recent release of “Deportation, Inc.” a new video series from SITU and Lawfare . They talk about why the government outsources the critical...

Dec 19, 202546 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Admin Attacks on Inspectors General with Cristin Dorgelo and Rob Storch

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Cristin Dorgelo, a former senior adviser for management at the Office of Management and Budget, and Rob Storch, who served as the inspector general of the Defense Department until the Trump administration fired him and many of his colleagues in January of this year. They discuss those firings, other Trump administration attacks on the offices of the inspector general, and various attempts by the administration to undermine oversight and evade ...

Dec 18, 202549 min

Rational Security: The “Chestbursters Roasting on an Open Fire” Edition

This week, Scott down with his Lawfare colleagues Alan Rozenshtein and Ari Tabatabai to talk through a few of the week’s big national security news stories, including: “Once You Pop, You Can’t Stop.” The Trump administration has given a green light to Nvidia to export its powerful H200 chips to China, opening a potentially significant new market while jumpstarting China’s strategically significant AI industry—or, perhaps, making it reliant on U.S. technology. What explains this decision? And how...

Dec 17, 20251 hr 22 min

Lawfare Daily: Scott Anderson on How Social Media Platforms Should Handle Unrecognized Regimes

Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein speaks with Scott Anderson, Senior Editor at Lawfare , fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution, and non-resident senior fellow in the National Security Law Program at Columbia Law School, who recently wrote a report about how social media platforms should handle unrecognized regimes like the Taliban. They discuss how social media platforms responded to the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan in 2021; the divergent approaches of Meta, YouTube...

Dec 17, 202543 min

Lawfare Daily: Ukraine’s Asymmetric Blueprint in the Black Sea

At the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia held clear naval superiority in the Black Sea. Over the course of the war, Ukraine has developed an asymmetric maritime strategy using unmanned surface vehicles (USVs), achieving strategic effects against a superior naval force. Ukraine has largely shifted from importing complete drone systems to assembling them domestically using foreign components, with China remaining a key supplier of many critical parts. What is more, Ukraine is now...

Dec 16, 202539 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Dec. 12

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, and Eric Columbus and Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss to discuss next week's contempt hearings in J.G.G. v. Trump , the release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia from ICE custody, domestic deployments litigation, and moreYou can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here . And check out Lawfare ’s new homepage on the litigation ,...

Dec 15, 20251 hr 37 min

Lawfare Archive: Introducing Allies: A Podcast Series from Lawfare and Goat Rodeo

From May 16, 2022: Today, Lawfare and Goat Rodeo released the first two episodes of Allies , a podcast series that traces the U.S.’s efforts to protect Afghan interpreters, translators and other partners through the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) program. That effort culminated in the U.S. evacuation from Afghanistan in August 2021, when thousands of the U.S.’s local partners were left behind. In seven episodes, Allies will take listeners through the decade-long effort to honor America’s promises ...

Dec 14, 202536 min

Lawfare Archive: President-elect Trump's National Security Appointments

From November 16, 2024: Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Alan Rozenshtein, and Quinta Jurecic and Executive Director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection Mary McCord about Donald Trump's picks for his Cabinet and senior-level administration positions, including Matt Gaetz as attorney general and Pete Hegseth as secretary of defense, the possibility of Trump using the recess appointment power, and more. Editor’s note: Duri...

Dec 13, 20251 hr 9 min

Lawfare Live: The Trump Administration’s 2025 National Security Strategy

At 10 am ET on Dec. 11 , Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson; Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor and Director of the Warfare, Irregular Threats, and Terrorism Program at CSIS Daniel Byman; and Director of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at AEI Kori Schake to discuss the Trump administration’s 2025 National Security Strategy. They talked about its emphasis on immigration as a national security threat and its implications for U.S. foreign pol...

Dec 12, 202556 min

Lawfare Daily: The Duty to Disobey Unlawful Orders

News of a U.S. attack on a boat off the coast of Venezuela—which included a second strike on survivors of the first—has raised new concerns about the administration’s operations against alleged drug traffickers. Legal analysts, including some at Lawfare , call the second strike clearly unlawful. So why did the U.S. military agree to follow the order? On today’s episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett discusses the roles and responsibilities of military personnel with Frank Rosenblatt, a profess...

Dec 11, 202553 min

Rational Security: The “Adverse Possession” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Contributing Editor Alex Zerden to talk through a few of the week’s big national security news stories, including: “Finding the Road to Damascus.” Former dictator Bashar al-Assad fled Syria one year ago this week, bringing a precipitous end to the country’s more than decade-long civil war. In the year since, has the country been able to make progress toward the optimistic future many hoped would follow al-Assad’s ouster? An...

Dec 10, 20251 hr 5 min

Lawfare Daily: The Defense Tech Paradox, with Susannah Glickman

Susannah Glickman, an assistant professor of history at Stony Brook University who specializes in the political economy of computation and information, sat down with Lawfare Associate Editor Olivia Manes to discuss the role of defense tech in the second Trump administration. Susannah unpacked her recent article in the New York Review of Books tracing the historical relationship between tech, defense, and the U.S. government, and explained how defense tech firms which have benefitted from U.S. in...

Dec 10, 202552 min

Lawfare Daily: Wikipedia, Ref-Working, and the Battle Over Reality

Wikipedia is more than an encyclopedia. It’s a key part of the internet’s information infrastructure—shaping what people know, what AI models learn, and what the public sees as true. But in an era of geopolitical conflict, AI disruption, and fracturing trust, Wikipedia has come under attack. In this episode, Renée DiResta talks with Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales about his new book, “ The Seven Rules of Trust ,” and about how Wikipedia has managed to remain one of the most trusted sites on the in...

Dec 09, 202551 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Dec. 5

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Michael Feinberg, Molly Roberts, Roger Parloff and Eric Columbus and Lawfare Contributing Editor James Pearce to discuss the arrest of a suspect in the attempted bombing on Jan. 6, 2021, a hearing in NPR’s lawsuit over the Trump administration cutting its funding, where the prosecutions of Letitia James and James Comey stand, and more.You can find information on legal chall...

Dec 08, 20251 hr 38 min

Lawfare Archive: Lynzy Billing on Afghanistan's Zero Unit Night Raids

From January 24, 2023: In 2019, investigative journalist and photographer Lynzy Billing went to Afghanistan to investigate a very personal story: her own past. In the process, she discovered what she came to call a classified war, one with lines of accountability so obscured that no one had to answer publicly for operations that went wrong. Lawfare managing editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Lynzy to talk through her four-year investigation , published last month in ProPublica. They discussed Af...

Dec 07, 202542 min

Lawfare Archive: How Congressional Staffers Helped Our Afghan Allies

From April 5, 2024: A new report from the POPVOX Foundation focuses on a little-known and hugely under-appreciated congressional effort: that of congressional staffers helping Afghan allies flee the country during the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with the report’s author, Anne Meeker. They talked about what staffers did to help, the challenges they faced, and how the experience exposed both weaknesses and strengths in how Congress functions. ...

Dec 06, 202538 min

Lawfare Live: The EU Fines X 120 M Euros - What Comes Next?

On Dec. 5, the European Commission announced that they are fining X (formerlly Twitter) 120 million euros for impersonation scams with “verification,” broken advertising transpaency system, and blocking researchers from its platform. On a Lawfare Live, Lawfare Senior Editor Kate Klonick and Lawfare Contributing Editor Renee DiResta analyzed the decision, what happens next, and how this fits into the geopolitical struggle over free speech. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare . Ho...

Dec 05, 202536 min

Scaling Laws: Caleb Withers on the Cybersecurity Frontier in the Age of AI

Caleb Withers , a researcher at the Center for a New American Security, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss how frontier models shift the balance in favor of attackers in cyberspace. The two discuss how labs and governments can take steps to address these asymmetries favoring attackers, and the future of cyber warfare driven by AI agents. Jack Mitchell, a student fellow in the AI Innovation and ...

Dec 05, 202549 min

Lawfare Daily: The End of New START? With John Drennan and Matthew Sharp

New START, the last bilateral nuclear arms control treaty between the United States and Russia, will expire in February 2026 if Washington and Moscow do not reach an understanding on its extension—as they have signaled they are interested to do. What would the end of New START mean for U.S.-Russia relations and the arms control architecture that had for decades contributed to stability among great powers? Lawfare Public Service Fellow Ariane Tabatabai sits down with John Drennan, Robert A. Belfe...

Dec 04, 202559 min

Rational Security: The “Living La Vida Off Camera” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Natalie Orpett and Eric Ciaramella to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including: “The Art of the Ordeal.” The Trump administration has been at the center of yet another bout of shuttle diplomacy the last several weeks, after an initial “28-point plan” for peace in Ukraine it appeared to hash out with Russia was met with widespread skepticism, both at home and in Kiev — leading it to shift focus to ...

Dec 03, 20251 hr 29 min

Lawfare Daily: The Besieged District Judges, with Reynolds Holding and Judge Jed Rakoff

Veteran legal journalist Reynolds Holding, author of " Better Judgment: How Three Judges Are Bringing Justice Back to the Courts ," and U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff, one of the judges featured in his book, sit down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff to discuss the role of district judges in our justice system. They also discuss the attacks those judges are enduring today from the Department of Justice, the White House, Congress, and even members of the U.S. Supreme Court. To receive ad-f...

Dec 03, 202551 min

Lawfare Daily: America's Defense Industrial Base

For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Seth Jones, the President of the Defense and Security Department at the Center for Strategic & International Studies to discuss Seth's new book about the U.S and Chinese industrial bases, " The American Edge: The Military Tech Nexus and the Sources of Great Power Dominance ." To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can also support Lawfare by making a one-t...

Dec 02, 202543 min

Lawfare Daily: Grading the Trump Administration's Cybersecurity Efforts, with Rear Admiral (Ret.) Mark Montgomery

Rear Admiral (Ret.) Mark Montgomery is the Senior Director of the Center on Cyber and Technology Innovation at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. He spent 32 years in the Navy as a nuclear-trained surface warfare officer, retiring as a rear admiral in 2017. After leaving the Navy, Admiral Montgomery worked as policy director for the Senate Armed Services Committee during Senator John McCain's chairmanship, and as Executive Director of the Cyberspace Solarium Commission, a congressionally...

Dec 01, 202536 min

Lawfare Archive: Russia and the American Far-right, with Marlene Laruelle

From November 19, 2024: Lawfare Associate Editor Olivia Manes sat down with with Marlene Laruelle, a Research Professor of International Affairs and Political Science at The George Washington University, and Director of GW's Illiberalism Studies Program, to discuss the financial, ideological, and historical connections between the American far-right and Russia. Marlene discussed the distinction between confluence and influence, white supremacist notions of a "pan-white" nation embodied by Russia...

Nov 30, 202541 min

Lawfare Archive: Deploying the Military at the Southern Border, with Chris Mirasola

From November 26, 2024: Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Chris Mirasola, Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Houston Law Center, to discuss the legal and practical considerations surrounding a president’s ability to deploy the military at the U.S. southern border, particularly in light of President-elect Trump’s recent endorsement of “declar[ing] a national emergency” in order to “use military assets” for “a mass deportation program.” They discuss the implicatio...

Nov 29, 202542 min
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