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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfaremedia.org

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfaremedia.org.

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Episodes

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Oct. 31

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Contributor Marty Lederman, Public Service Fellow Loren Voss, and Senior Editors Scott R. Anderson, Roger Parloff and Eric Columbus to discuss the Supreme Court’s handling of the legal challenge to the federalization of the National Guard in Chicago, James Comey’s motions to dismiss the indictment against him, ongoing politicization at the Department of Justice, litigation over the Trump administrati...

Nov 03, 20251 hr 42 min

Lawfare Archive: Michael Beckley and Arne Westad on the U.S.-China Relationship

From July 18, 2024: On today’s episode, Matt Gluck, Research Fellow at Lawfare , spoke with Michael Beckley, Associate Professor of Political Science at Tufts, and Arne Westad, the Elihu Professor of History at Yale. They discussed Beckley’s and Westad’s articles in Foreign Affairs on the best path forward for the U.S.-China strategic relationship—in the economic and military contexts. Beckley argues that in the short term, the U.S. should focus on winning its security competition with China, ra...

Nov 02, 202557 min

Lawfare Archive: ‘Threat Multiplier,’ Climate, and the Military with Sherri Goodman

From August 27, 2024: On today’s episode, Sherri Goodman, the Secretary General of the International Military Council on Climate & Security and the first Deputy Undersecretary of Defense (Environmental Security) joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about Sherri’s new book, “Threat Multiplier: Climate, Military Leadership, and the Fight for Global Security.” They discuss Sherri’s career in climate security, beginning at the Senate Armed Services Committee before “climate securi...

Nov 01, 202555 min

Scaling Laws: The GoLaxy Revelations: China's AI-Driven Influence Operations, with Brett Goldstein, Brett Benson, and Renée DiResta

Alan Rozenshtein, Senior Editor at Lawfare , speaks with Brett Goldstein, Special Advisor to the Chancellor on National Security and Strategic Initiatives at Vanderbilt University; Brett Benson, Associate Professor of Political Science at Vanderbilt University; and Renée DiResta, Lawfare Contributing Editor and Associate Research Professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy. The conversation covers the evolution of influence operations from crude Russian troll farms to so...

Oct 31, 202556 min

Rational Security: The “Tyler’s Revenge” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Public Service Fellow Ari Tabatabai and Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including: “Great APEC-tations.” President Trump is headed to Asia this week, both for a meeting of the regional Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) organization and a one-on-one sit down with Chinese president Xi Jinping. It’s a moment destined to spotlight one of the more quixotic areas of the second Trump adm...

Oct 30, 20251 hr 10 min

Lawfare Daily: Why We Fall for Charlatans, with Quico Toro

On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Quico Toro, global opinion columnist at the Washington Post and Director of Climate Repair at the Anthropocene Institute, to talk about his new book, “ Charlatans: How Grifters, Swindlers, and Hucksters Bamboozle the Media, the Markets, and the Masses ,” which he wrote with his co-author, Moisés Naím. They discuss what defines a charlatan, the cognitive biases they exploit to take people in, and how technological and societ...

Oct 30, 202531 min

Lawfare Daily: NATO’s Eastern Flank: The View from Lithuania

Katsiaryna Shmatsina, Eurasia Fellow at Lawfare , sits down with Gabrielius Landsbergis, former Lithuanian Foreign Minister (2020–2024), now a visiting fellow at Stanford University, and Vytis Jurkonis, Associate Professor at Vilnius University and Director of Freedom House’s Lithuania office. They discuss Lithuania’s response to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, including shifts in security policy, public sentiment, and military readiness. The conversation covers regional defense, U.S.–L...

Oct 29, 202549 min

Lawfare Daily: State Cyber Corps and Volunteer Programs

Sarah Powazek, Director of the Public Interest Cybersecurity Program at UC Berkeley’s Center for Long-Term Cybersecurity, and Michael Razeeq, Nonresident Fellow at the Public Interest Cybersecurity Program, join Lawfare ’s Justin Sherman to discuss the cyber threats facing states, what options and resources states currently have to address cybersecurity problems, and how the concept of state cyber corps and volunteer programs fits into the picture. They also discuss how states can stand up a cyb...

Oct 28, 202542 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Oct. 24

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Contributor James Pearce and Senior Editors Scott R. Anderson, Molly Roberts, Roger Parloff and Eric Columbus to discuss the arraignment of Letitia James, legal challenges to the appointments of Lindsey Halligan and Alina Habba to be U.S. attorneys, litigation over the federalization and deployment of National Guard, and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administratio...

Oct 27, 20251 hr 34 min

Lawfare Archive: CYBERCOM Legal Conference: The Role of the Private Sector in Conflict

From April 24, 2024: The annual U.S. Cyber Command (USCYBERCOM) Legal Conference convenes lawyers across government and the private sector working on cyber issues. This year’s conference focused on the power of partnerships. Executive Editor Natalie Orpett moderated a panel, titled “The Business of Battle: Navigating the Role of the Private Sector in Conflict,” featuring Jonathan Horowitz of the International Committee for the Red Cross, Laurie Blank of the Defense Department’s Office of the Gen...

Oct 26, 202558 min

Lawfare Archive: Gabe Rottman on the Justice Department's New Guidelines on Press Subpoenas

From June 5, 2023: It's been about six months since the attorney general issued new guidelines on compulsory process to members of the press in criminal and national security investigations, and two officials of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press—Bruce Brown and Gabe Rottman—wrote a detailed analysis of the document in two parts for Lawfare . Rottman joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to go through the document carefully: the long history that led to it, the shifting po...

Oct 25, 202541 min

Scaling Laws: Sen. Scott Wiener on California Senate Bill 53

California State Senator Scott Wiener, author of Senate Bill 53—a frontier AI safety bill—signed into law by Governor Newsom earlier this month, joins Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare , and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare , to explain the significance of SB 53 in the large debate about how to govern AI. The trio analyze the lessons that Senator Wiener learned...

Oct 24, 202550 min

Lawfare Daily: External Powers Competition in Africa: Aid, Security, Tech—and African Agency

Katsiaryna Shmatsina, Eurasia Fellow at Lawfare , is joined by Beverly Ochieng, senior security analyst at Control Risks and non-resident expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), to examine how external powers compete for influence in Africa—and how African states are responding. They discuss the shifting priorities of the second Trump administration, including a “trade not aid” approach, stricter visa policies, and growing pressure on African governments to accept ir...

Oct 23, 202552 min

Rational Security: The “Pickled Fish in Cozy Sweaters” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Senior Fellow Eric Columbus, Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina, and Public Service Fellow Loren Voss to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including: “Visiting Concessions.” President Trump once again turned his focus to the conflict in Ukraine, announcing last week that he and Russian President Vladimir Putin would be meeting to discuss the conflict in Budapest—though it’s not clear Putin has agreed. This occurred just d...

Oct 22, 20251 hr 19 min

Lawfare Daily: Political Change in Madagascar and Kenya

For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Holly Berkley Fletcher, a former senior CIA Africa analyst, to discuss the recent coup in Madagascar and the death of Kenyan opposition leader and political giant, Raila Odinga. They discuss the reasons for the coup and how Madagascar's neighbors might respond. Berkley Fletcher also explained Odinga's legacy and how his death might change Kenya. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.p...

Oct 22, 202526 min

The Now: Anna Bower's Signal Exchange with Lindsey Halligan

In a Lawfare Live , The Now on October 20, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower to discuss her article about how interim U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan reached out to her on Signal —and the conversation that followed. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute . Support this show http://supporte...

Oct 21, 202533 min

Lawfare Daily: Tomahawks, Trump, and Armed Neutrality for Ukraine

In this episode, Lawfare ’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Eric Ciaramella, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Mykhailo Soldatenko, a scholar of international law and a doctoral candidate at Harvard Law School, to discuss the latest meeting between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelensky, armed neutrality for Ukraine, and how Ukraine can nudge the ongoing peace negotiations in its favor. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Sup...

Oct 21, 20251 hr 1 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Oct. 17

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Public Service Fellows Loren Voss and Michael Feinberg and Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Eric Columbus to discuss the legal challenges to the National Guard deployment in Chicago, the indictment of John Bolton, a judge preventing the firing of federal employees during the government shutdown, and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here . And c...

Oct 20, 20251 hr 33 min

Lawfare Archive: The Potential for an Afghan Adjustment Act

Yesterday marked the two-year anniversary of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. Around 80,000 Afghans were relocated during the withdrawal, and many do not have a pathway to permanent citizenship here in the United States. To get a sense of those immigration challenges and the potential for congressional action on those issues, Bryce Klehm sat down with Shala Gafary, the Managing Attorney of Project: Afghan Legal Assistance at Human Rights First, and Jennifer Quigley, the Senior Director of G...

Oct 19, 202542 min

Lawfare Archive: How Internet Infrastructure Affects Digital Repression in Venezuela

Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sits down with Esteban Carisimo, a Postdoctoral Researcher at Northwestern University to talk about the digital repression in Venezuela after the recent elections. Carisimo co-authored a recent report on the effects of the Venezuelan crisis on internet infrastructure. They discuss how internet censorship impacts the protests, how Venezuela's infrastructure compares to other countries in the region, and what the path to recovery looks lik...

Oct 18, 202539 min

Scaling Laws: AI and Energy: What Do We Know? What Are We Learning?

Mosharaf Chowdhury, Associate Professor at the University of Michigan and Director of the ML Energy lab, and Dan Zhou, former Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Lincoln Lab, MIT Supercomputing Center, and MIT CSAIL, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare , to discuss the energy costs of AI. They break down exactly how much energy fuels a single ChatGPT query, why this is difficult to figure out, how we might impr...

Oct 17, 202552 min

Lawfare Daily: Prosecuting Terrorism and the Pursuit of Justice, with Jake Tapper

Lawfare Public Service Fellow Michael Feinberg sits down with Jake Tapper, the lead Washington anchor for CNN, to discuss his new book, “ Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War .” The book chronicles the investigation, prosecution, and ultimate conviction of Spin Ghul, an Al Qaeda operative who became the first major international terrorist tried in a U.S. civilian court. Feinberg and Tapper explore what the case reveals about the American justice system i...

Oct 16, 202553 min

Rational Security: The “Don’t Upset the Masks” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Kate Klonick, and newly-minted Senior Editor Molly Roberts to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including: “Peace by Piece.” The first phase of the Trump administration’s peace plan for Gaza went into effect on Monday, resulting in the return of the last living hostages held by Hamas to Israel, among other exchanges. President Trump celebrated the moment with a triumphal speech in front of the Israel...

Oct 15, 20251 hr 13 min

Lawfare Daily: Serhii Plokhii on the History of the Nuclear Arms Race

Lawfare Contributor Mykhailo Soldatenko sits down with Serhii Plokhii, Harvard History Professor and a leading authority on the history of the Cold War and Ukraine, to discuss his new book, " The Nuclear Age: An Epic Race for Arms, Power and Survival ," that tells a history of nuclear proliferation and international efforts to tame it. They discuss the role of fear and prestige in a country's decision to acquire nukes, nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, preventive wars against nuclear as...

Oct 15, 20251 hr

Lawfare Daily: How Technologists Can Help Regulators with Erie Meyer and Laura Edelson

Erie Meyer, Senior Fellow at Georgetown Law’s Institute for Technology Law & Policy and Senior Fellow at the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator, and Laura Edelson, Assistant Professor of Computer Science at Northeastern University, who are coauthors of the recent toolkit, “ Working with Technologists: Recommendations for State Enforcers and Regulators ,” join Lawfare ’s Justin Sherman to discuss how state enforcers and regulators can hire and better work with technologists, what technologists are...

Oct 14, 202544 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Oct. 10

In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss and Senior Editors Anna Bower, Roger Parloff, Eric Columbus, and Molly Roberts to discuss the legal challenges to the National Guard deployment in Portland and Chicago, a hearing over the attempted deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the arraignment of James Comey, and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here . An...

Oct 13, 20251 hr 42 min

Lawfare Archive: Justin Sherman on the FTC Settlement with Location Data Broker X-Mode

From January 19, 2024: Last week, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) reached a settlement with location data broker X-Mode Social. X-Mode collects over 10 billion location data points from all over the world every day, and sells it to clients in a range of industries, like advertisers, consulting firms, and private government contractors. The FTC argued that the data broker was conducting unfair business practices, including selling people’s sensitive location data. To discuss the FTC settlement...

Oct 12, 202542 min

Lawfare Archive: Noah Efron on the Awful Quiet of This Moment

From October 10, 2023: This morning, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes connected with his old friend Noah Efron about the weekend's events in Israel. Noah is a professor at Bar-Ilan University, a prolific essayist and writer, and the host of The Promised Podcast, a podcast on Israeli life, politics, and culture. In an interview punctuated twice by missile attacks, they discussed what happened over the weekend, the magnitude and horror of the Hamas attack, the impact on Israeli society, and...

Oct 11, 202559 min

Scaling Laws: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan

David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare , to discuss the evolution of the Trust & Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI. They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regula...

Oct 10, 202547 min

Lawfare Daily: The State of the Spyware Industry with Jen Roberts and Sarah Graham

Jen Roberts, Associate Director of the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative, and Sarah Graham, Research Consultant with the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative, who are coauthors along with Nitansha Bansal of the recent paper, “ Mythical Beasts: Diving Into the Depths of the Global Spyware Market ,” join Lawfare ’s Justin Sherman to discuss the global spyware industry, how it has evolved in recent years, and what its future holds. They also discuss the geographic concentrati...

Oct 09, 202538 min
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