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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfareblog.com

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfareblog.com.

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Episodes

Lawfare Daily: Kevin Frazier on Prioritizing AI Research

Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota Law School and Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein sits down with Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor of Law at St. Thomas University College of Law, Co-Director of the Center for Law and AI Risk, and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare . They discuss a new paper that Kevin has published as part of Lawfare ’s ongoing Digital Social Contract paper series titled “ Prioritizing International AI Research, Not Regulations .” Frazier sheds light on the curr...

Sep 03, 202433 min

Lawfare Archive: Why the First Amendment Doesn’t Protect Trump’s Jan. 6 Speech

From October 28, 2022: There's been a lot of discussion about whether Donald Trump should be indicted. Lately, that discussion has focused on the documents the FBI seized from Mar-a-lago or the Jan. 6 committee's revelations about his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. But what about his speech on the ellipse on Jan. 6 when he told a crowd of thousands to “fight like hell,” and they went on to attack the Capitol? Isn't that incitement? Lawfare  executive editor Natalie Orpett sat down w...

Sep 02, 202443 min

Lawfare Archive: Laura Rosenberger on Foreign Interventions in U.S. Campaigns

From October 30, 2020: Laura Rosenberger is the director of the Alliance for Securing Democracy and a senior fellow at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. She was foreign policy advisor for the Hillary Clinton campaign four years ago, where she had to respond to Russian information operations against the campaign in real time. She has been working on combating foreign interference in U.S. domestic politics ever since, and she is the author of two recent significant articles— one in Fo...

Sep 01, 202446 min

Lawfare Archive: Who Let the Barbarians Through the Gates?

From January 8, 2021: The storming of the Capitol on Wednesday was a catastrophic failure of protective law enforcement, as rioters overran Capitol Police barricades and gained access to a building that a lot of police were supposed to be protecting. How did it happen? Who screwed up? And what can be done about it? Benjamin Wittes sat down with Fred Burton, the executive director of the Center for Protective Intelligence at Ontic and a former protective officer; Garrett Graff, a journalist who c...

Aug 31, 202448 min

Lawfare Daily: Elliot Jones on the Importance and Current Limitations of AI Testing

Elliot Jones, a Senior Researcher at the Ada Lovelace Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , to discuss  a report he co-authored  on the current state of efforts to test AI systems. The pair break down why evaluations, audits, and related assessments have become a key part of AI regulation. They also analyze why it may take some time for those assessments to be as robust as hoped.  To receive ad...

Aug 30, 202438 min

Rational Security: The “Prison Rules” Edition

This week, Quinta and Scott were joined by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler "Spicy Tyler" McBrien to talk through the week's big national security news stories, including: “Jack Smith Takes a Mulligan on his Big Swing.” A grand jury has re-indicted former President Trump for his actions relating to the Jan. 6 insurrection, after Special Counsel Jack Smith trimmed and massaged the allegations to accommodate the Supreme Court’s recent ruling on presidential immunity. How different is this indictment?...

Aug 29, 20241 hr 8 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump’s Trials and Tribulations, Trump Re-Indicted in the Jan. 6 Case

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on August 28 in front of a live audience on  YouTube  and Zoom. Lawfare  Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to  Lawfare  Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff about Special Counsel Jack Smith’s superseding indictment against former President Trump in the Jan. 6 prosecution, how it differs from the original indictment, and more. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a  L...

Aug 29, 202454 min

Lawfare Daily: The Wagner Group, One Year After Prigozhin with Vanda Felbab-Brown

On today’s episode, Vanda Felbab-Brown, Director of the Initiative on Nonstate Armed Actors, Co-Director of the Africa Security Initiative, and Senior Fellow in Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution joins  Lawfare  Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to help make sense of the recent skirmishes in northern Mali between the junta, separatist groups, Islamists, and Russian mercenaries.  They discuss what the recent ambush in Mali portends for Russian and Russian-aligned mercenaries' ...

Aug 28, 202438 min

Chatter: What Putin Wants, with Peter Clement

For more than 40 years, Peter Clement has studied Russian political culture and leaders--serving for most of that time as an analyst, manager, and executive at the CIA before his retirement in 2018. He has PhD in Russian history, teaches at Columbia University, and has thought long and hard about what makes Vladimir Putin tick. He joined David Priess to discuss his road to studying Russia as a career, the art of Kremlinology, Putin's rise, Putin's feelings abou...

Aug 27, 20241 hr 26 min

Lawfare Daily: ‘Threat Multiplier,’ Climate, and the Military with Sherri Goodman

On today’s episode, Sherri Goodman, the Secretary General of the International Military Council on Climate & Security and the first Deputy Undersecretary of Defense (Environmental Security) joins  Lawfare  Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about Sherri’s new book,  “Threat Multiplier: Climate, Military Leadership, and the Fight for Global Security.” They discuss Sherri’s career in climate security, beginning at the Senate Armed Services Committee before “climate security” ...

Aug 27, 202454 min

Lawfare Daily: How Internet Infrastructure Affects Digital Repression in Venezuela

Lawfare  Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sits down with Esteban Carisimo, a Postdoctoral Researcher at Northwestern University to talk about the digital repression in Venezuela after the recent elections. Carisimo co-authored a recent  report  on the effects of the Venezuelan crisis on internet infrastructure. They discuss how internet censorship impacts the protests, how Venezuela's infrastructure compares to other countries in the region, and what the path to ...

Aug 26, 202437 min

Lawfare Archive: Eugene Volokh on AI Libel

From April 26, 2023: If someone lies about you, you can usually sue them for defamation. But what if that someone is ChatGPT? Already in Australia, the mayor of a town outside Melbourne has  threatened to sue  OpenAI because ChatGPT falsely named him a guilty party in a bribery scandal. Could that happen in America? Does our libel law allow that? What does it even mean for a large language model to act with "malice"? Does the First Amendment put any limits on the ability to hold these ...

Aug 25, 202454 min

Lawfare Archive: The Biden Administration's Grand Strategy in Three Documents, with Richard Fontaine

From November 1, 2022: In recent weeks, the Biden administration has released a trio of long-awaited strategy documents, including the  National Security Strategy , the  National Defense Strategy , and the  Nuclear Posture Review.  But how should we read these documents, and what do they actually tell us about how the Biden administration intends to approach the world? To answer these questions,  Lawfare  senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Richard Fontain...

Aug 24, 202451 min

Lawfare Daily: Richard Albert on Constitutional Resilience Amid Political Tumult

Richard Albert, William Stamps Farish Professor in Law, Professor of Government, and Director of Constitutional Studies at the University of Texas at Austin, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , to conduct a comparative analysis of what helps constitutions withstand political pressures. Richard’s extensive study of different means to amend constitutions shapes their conversation about whether the U.S. Constitution has ...

Aug 23, 202446 min

Rational Security: The “Make Daguerreotypes Great Again” Edition

This week, Alan and Quinta sat down with Molly Reynolds and Kevin Frazier to talk about the week’s big developments, including: “It can always get worse…” Although President Biden’s replacement by Vice President Kamala Harris at the top of the Democratic ticket has reenergized the Democrats’ bid to retain the White House, the race is still a tossup, and former President Trump could well reenter the White House in 2025. Have we successfully “Trump-proofed” the government in anticipation?  “R...

Aug 22, 20241 hr 12 min

Lawfare Daily: A Conversation with an Exiled Venezuelan Opposition Leader

Anastasiia Lapatina is a Kyiv-based Ukraine Fellow at Lawfare . Leopoldo Lopez is a Venezuelan opposition leader living in exile in Madrid, after escaping prison for leading protests against Nicolás Maduro in 2014. Lapatina and Lopez discuss the results of Venezuela’s recent presidential election, ties between Venezuela’s autocrat Nicolás Maduro and other dictatorships, and the path forward for Venezuela after the rigged election. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a  Lawfare  Materia...

Aug 22, 202425 min

Lawfare Daily: Shoba Pillay and Jennifer Lee on the Dismissal of Charges Against the SolarWinds Corporation and Timothy Brown

The fallout from the SolarWinds intrusion took a new turn with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission’s (SEC) decision to file a cybersecurity-related enforcement action against the SolarWinds corporation and its Chief Information Security Officer (CISO), Timothy G. Brown, in October of 2023. But In July, District Court Judge Paul A. Engelmayer dismissed a number of charges in the SEC’s complaint against SolarWinds and Brown.  To talk about this significant development in the case, Ste...

Aug 21, 202436 min

Chatter: Gaming Out an Insurrection with Jesse Moss

It’s January 6, 2025. Congress has convened to certify electoral votes in the presidential election. But members of the U.S. military are in revolt, throwing their support behind the losing candidate. The legitimate president huddles in the Situation Room with his top advisers and Cabinet. They have six hours to prevent violent protests from exploding into civil war.  That’s the dire scenario imagined in the new documentary “War Game.” Real-world experts--including former elected officials ...

Aug 20, 20241 hr 4 min

Lawfare Daily: The New Outbound Investment Regime with Assistant Treasury Secretary Paul Rosen

For today’s episode,  Lawfare  Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and  Lawfare  Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack sat down with Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Investment Security Paul Rosen to talk through the groundbreaking new national security-related outbound investment regulations his office is preparing at the direction of President Biden. Together, they discussed what concerns motivated the new regulations’ focus on China and emerging technologies, what exact...

Aug 20, 202441 min

Lawfare Daily: Eugenia Lostri and Justin Sherman on Security by Design in Practice

As part of  Lawfare ’s  Security by Design Project , Eugenia Lostri,  Lawfare ’s Fellow in Technology Policy and Law, and Justin Sherman, CEO of Global Cyber Strategies, published a new paper , “Security by Design in Practice: Assessing Concepts, Definitions and Approaches.”  Lawfare  Senior Editor Stephanie Pell talked with Eugenia and Justin about the paper’s exploration of the meaning of security by design, scalability solutions and processes for implementing sec...

Aug 19, 202453 min

Lawfare Archive: What Ukraine Tells Us About the Future of War

From August 2, 2023: Over the past eighteen months, Ukraine has served as the stage for a proxy battle between superpowers, with the invading Russians on one side and a U.S.-led coalition of Western allies backing Ukraine on the other. As such, it’s the closest thing we’ve yet seen to what many military strategists believe will be the defining challenge of the next strategic era: a near-peer conflict between two or more technologically sophisticated major powers. In this way, the conflict has se...

Aug 18, 202459 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (August 15, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on August 15 in front of a live audience on  YouTube  and Zoom. Lawfare  Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to  Lawfare  Legal Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower and  Lawfare  Senior Editor Roger Parloff about Judge Chutkan’s order granting Jack Smith’s motion for an extension of time, briefs filed in Trump’s appeal to disqualify DA Fani Willis from the Fulton County case, and took audien...

Aug 17, 20241 hr 27 min

Lawfare Daily: The Fallout from the French Elections

French politics has had quite a summer. In early June, the French far-right made substantial gains in the European Union Parliament. The same day the results came down, French President Emmanuel Macron called snap elections, saying that the rise of nationalists and demagogues was a danger to France and Europe. It was a shocking and risky move. In the first round of elections, the far-right came in first, but after the second round, they were in third. Much of the media moved on after reporting o...

Aug 16, 202459 min

Rational Security: The “Minnesota Nice” Edition

This week, the whole gang—Alan, Quinta, and Scott—got back together to discuss the week's big national security news, including: “In Post-Soviet Russia, Ukraine Invade You!” In an ironic reversal, Ukraine invaded Russia this past week, seizing substantial portions of the oblast of Kursk and surprising both Russian forces and Ukrainian allies in what appears to be its most successful military venture in more than a year. Why did Ukraine take this step? What will it mean in the longer arc of this ...

Aug 15, 20241 hr 9 min

Lawfare Daily: Chris Hoofnagle on the Theory, History, and Future of Cybersecurity

Chris Hoofnagle, Visiting Senior Research Fellow at King’s College and Professor of Law in Residence at the UC Berkeley School of Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , and Eugenia Lostri, Lawfare 's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law, to discuss ALL things cybersecurity—its theory, history, and future. Much of their conversation turns on themes expressed in Hoofnagle’s textbook, “ Cybersecurity in Context ,” ...

Aug 15, 202438 min

Lawfare Daily: Ukraine Invades Russia

Over the past week, Ukrainian forces have launched a major incursion into Russia proper, occupying 1,000 square kilometers in Kursk Oblast, which borders Ukraine. The operation, which caught both Russia and the United States by surprise, is the first major Ukrainian offensive in more than a year. In this episode, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare 's Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace to discuss the...

Aug 14, 20241 hr 13 min

Chatter: Reconceptualizing National Security with Gina Bennett

Gina Bennett had a remarkable intelligence career of more than three decades, focusing on counterterrorism even before the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 and continuing to apply that expertise long after 9/11. She has written a book about how national security and parenting lessons reinforce each other, taught students at Georgetown University, and mentored women entering national security careers. She joined David Priess to talk about her path into and through the intelligence communi...

Aug 13, 20241 hr 34 min

Lawfare Daily: Rachel Maddow Talks McCarthy, Fascism, and Ultra

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with MSNBC talk show host Rachel Maddow, creator of the new  podcast series , Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra, Season II. They discuss the ideological aftermath of World War II on the American far right, the rise of Sen. Joe McCarthy, and the rhetorically incredible cast of characters around him. Why do we remember McCarthy merely as a fierce anticommunist demagogue and not as a neo-Nazi? To receive ad-free podcasts, become a  Lawfar...

Aug 13, 20241 hr 7 min

Lawfare Daily: Katie Moussouris on Bug Bounties

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Katie Moussouris of Luta Security to talk bug bounties. Where do they come from? What is their proper role in cybersecurity? What are they good for, and most importantly, what are they  not  good for? Moussouris was among the hackers who first did bug bounties at scale—for Microsoft, and then for the Pentagon. Now she helps companies set up bug bounty programs and is dismayed by how they are being used. To receive ad-free podcasts,...

Aug 12, 202449 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (August 8, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on August 8 in front of a live audience on  YouTube  and Zoom. Lawfare  Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to  Lawfare  Legal Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower and  Lawfare  Senior Editor Roger Parloff about what Judge Chutkan has been up to in D.C., state-level prosecutions of fake electors, and took audience questions from  Lawfare  material supporters. Support this show http...

Aug 11, 20241 hr 22 min
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