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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfareblog.com

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfareblog.com.

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Episodes

Lawfare Daily: Larry Lessig on the Right to Warn of AI Dangers

Larry Lessig, Roy L. Furman Professor of Law and Leadership at the Harvard Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , to discuss the open letter published by 13 current or former AI lab employees calling for a Right to Warn of AI dangers. This conversation dives into Lessig's representation of some of those employees as they push for a Right to Warn of AI dangers, the potential scope of that right, and the need for such a right in the first place. All signs suggest this won't...

Jun 25, 202441 min

Lawfare Daily: Open Banking and the Benefits of Interoperability with Alexander Rigby and Chinmayi Sharma

Just months after many of the mandates in the European Union's Digital Markets Act (DMA) have gone into effect, interoperability and data portability are fresh on the policy world’s mind. But what does the history of interoperability suggest about its ability to help the Internet regain its former openness? Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Senior Editor at  Lawfare , spoke with Alexander Rigby, a law clerk on Delaware Court of Chancery, and Chi...

Jun 24, 202442 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (June 21, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on June 21 in front of a live audience on  YouTube  and Zoom. Lawfare  Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to  Lawfare  Legal Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower, University of Texas law professor Lee Kovarsky, and Georgetown Law professor Martin Lederman about the Friday hearing on the legality of Special Counsel Jack Smith’s appointment in the classified documents case, the appellate issues at hand...

Jun 23, 20241 hr 30 min

Lawfare Archive: A Surprise UAE-Israel Deal

From August 17, 2020: In a surprise announcement last week, the United Arab Emirates and Israel are normalizing relations, and Israel is putting on hold its plans for annexation of West Bank territory. To discuss the announcement and its diverse implications for various actors, Benjamin Wittes spoke with  Lawfare  senior editor Scott Anderson; Suzanne Maloney, an Iran specialist who is acting head of the Foreign Policy Program at Brookings; Natan Sachs, the director of the Brookings Ce...

Jun 22, 202447 min

Lawfare Daily: A Big Week for Ukraine Agreements with Eric Ciaramella, Anastasiia Lapatina, and Scott R. Anderson

For today's episode,  Lawfare  Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down to discuss the various Ukraine-related agreements that came out of the G7 and subsequent Ukraine peace summit last week, with Contributing Editor and Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Senior Fellow Eric Ciaramella, Ukrainian journalist Anastasiia Lapatina, and  Lawfare  Senior Editor and Brookings Institution Fellow Scott R. Anderson. They discussed the joint communique that came out of the ...

Jun 21, 20241 hr 5 min

Rational Security: The “Up in Flames” Edition

This week, Quinta and Scott were joined by  Lawfare  Contributing Editor and Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Eric Ciaramella to talk over the week’s big national security news, including: “Prime Deliverables, in Two Days or Less.” The Biden administration and its European allies coughed up a number of big wins for Ukraine at a meeting of the G7 and subsequent Ukraine peace summit this past week, ranging from a new U.S.-Ukraine security agreement to a com...

Jun 20, 20241 hr 12 min

Lawfare Daily: What Can Be Done to Improve Cloud Security with Maia Hamin, Trey Herr, and Marc Rogers

The Cyber Safety Review Board’s (CSRB)  report  on the Summer 2023 Microsoft Exchange online intrusion sheds light on how a series of flaws in Microsoft’s cloud infrastructure and security processes allowed a hacking group associated with the People’s Republic of China (PRC) to strike the “equivalent of gold” in accessing the official email accounts of many of the most senior U.S. government officials managing the U.S. government’s relationship with the PRC.  Lawfare  Senior ...

Jun 20, 202457 min

Lawfare Archive: Eric Posner on ‘The Demagogue's Playbook'

From June 29, 2020: Jack Goldsmith sat down with Eric Posner, the Kirkland & Ellis Distinguished Service Professor of Law at the University of Chicago, and the author of the new book, " The Demagogue's Playbook: The Battle for American Democracy from the Founders to Trump ." They discussed why demagogues are a characteristic threat in democracies, how the founders of the U.S. Constitution tried to ensure elite control and prevent a demagogue from becoming president, how these safeguards weak...

Jun 19, 202458 min

Chatter: The People Who Turn Lies into Reality, with Renée DiResta

Renée DiResta is the author of  Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies into Reality . Until the other day, she was one of the brains behind the Stanford Internet Observatory, where she did pioneering work studying Internet information streams how they generate. The day before this podcast was recorded, news broke that Stanford was shutting down—or revamping—the SIO, and DiResta is no longer associated with it. In this conversation with Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes, DiResta ta...

Jun 18, 20241 hr 18 min

Lawfare Daily: Former Amb. Roberta Jacobson on the Mexico Presidential Election

On June 2, Mexico held one of the largest elections in its history, and the electorate voted in the country's first woman, and Jewish, president, Claudia Sheinbaum. Sheinbaum was endorsed by outgoing President Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), who critics charge as pushing a series of anti-democratic policies including a substantial judicial overhaul.  To discuss this historic election and what President-elect Claudia Sheinbaum may do in office,  Lawfare  Associate Editor for Co...

Jun 18, 202444 min

Lawfare Daily: Senator Menendez On Trial

Lawfare Senior Editors Molly Reynolds and Quinta Jurecic checked in on the status of Senator Bob Menendez’s ongoing criminal trial in the Southern District of New York. Together with Dan Richman of Columbia Law School and Eric Columbus, who previously served as special litigation counsel at the U.S. House of Representatives’ Office of General Counsel, they discussed the challenges faced by prosecutors in bringing corruption charges against a sitting member of Congress.  The Justice Departme...

Jun 17, 202452 min

Lawfare Archive: John Allen and Darrell West on Artificial Intelligence

From July 17, 2020: Darrell West and John Allen are the authors of the book, " Turning Point: Policymaking in the Era of Artificial Intelligence ," a broad look at the impact that artificial intelligence systems are likely to have on everything from the military, to health care, to vehicles and transportation, and to international great power competition. They spoke with Benjamin Wittes about the book and the question of how we should govern AI systems. What makes for ethical uses of AI? What ma...

Jun 16, 202449 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (June 13, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on June 13 in front of a live audience on  YouTube  and Zoom. Lawfare  Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey talked to  Lawfare  Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes and Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic about Judge Cannon's order denying in part former President Trump's motion to dismiss the classified document case, what Judge McAfee is up to in Fulton County, and of course, they took audience questions fr...

Jun 15, 20241 hr 11 min

Missouri’s Legal Fight Against China Continues with Sean Mirski and Aaron Sobel

On today’s episode, Matt Gluck, Research Fellow at  Lawfare , spoke with Sean Mirski and Aaron Sobel of Arnold & Porter. Mirski practices foreign-relations, international, and appellate law, and Sobel practices international and appellate law. They discussed  Mirski and Sobel’s recent  Lawfare  piece , co-authored with John Bellinger and Catherine McCarthy, on the Eighth Circuit’s decision reviving part of Missouri’s coronavirus-related lawsuit against several defend...

Jun 14, 202446 min

Rational Security: The “Miami Vices” Edition

This week, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk through some of the week’s biggest national security news stories, including: “Save the Last Gantz.” Leading opposition figure Benny Gantz has left Israel’s war cabinet over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s failure to establish post-conflict plans for Gaza, raising serious questions about the stability of Netanyahu’s far-right government. What does Gantz’s departure mean for the future of the con...

Jun 13, 20241 hr 18 min

Lawfare Daily: Is Complying with the Law of War a Defense to Genocide?

On today’s episode,  Lawfare  General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Gabor Rona, Professor of Practice at Cardozo Law, and Natalie Orpett,  Lawfare ’s Executive Editor, to discuss their recent  Lawfare  piece examining whether a state pursuing an armed conflict in compliance with international humanitarian law could nonetheless violate the Genocide Convention. They discussed how these two areas of law intersect, their relevance to the ongoing p...

Jun 13, 202453 min

Lawfare Daily: Natan Sachs on the Latest Israeli Political Crisis

Natan Sachs is the Director of the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. He joined Lawfare 's Editor in Chief, Benjamin Wittes, to discuss the resignation of Israeli war cabinet member Benny Gantz, the fate of Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing government, and Israeli perceptions of the Gaza war. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a  Lawfare  Material Supporter at  www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can also support  Lawfare  by making a one-time donation ...

Jun 12, 202446 min

Chatter: FDR, Charles Lindbergh, and Presidential Libraries with Paul Sparrow

Paul Sparrow, who served as Director of the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum from 2015 to 2022, has written the book  Awakening the Spirit of America  about the war of words between FDR and Charles Lindbergh in 1940-41. He joined host David Priess to discuss his path to the FDR Library, the history of presidential libraries, how the Roosevelt-Lindbergh war of words reveals much about the American experience before and during the Second World War, why Lindbergh...

Jun 11, 20241 hr 17 min

Lawfare Daily: Behind the Scenes of Lawfare's Trump New York Trial Coverage

The first criminal trial of a former president of the United States began in April and reached a verdict on May 30. As  Lawfare  readers and listeners know, we covered the trial in great detail. Normally based in Washington, D.C., we opened a temporary “bureau” in New York City so that we could report on each and every day of the proceedings from inside the courtroom. We produced written and oral dispatches every day on top of our usual deep-dive analysis of the legal issues at stake. ...

Jun 11, 202449 min

Lawfare Daily: Charlotte Willner and David Sullivan on Content Moderation in the Age of AI

Charlotte Willner, Executive Director of the Trust and Safety Professional Association, and David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, join Lawfare' s Tarbell Fellow Kevin Frazier and Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic to discuss content moderation in the age of AI. Following 97 self-described data labellers, content moderators, and AI workers publishing an  open letter  describing deplorable working conditions, Charlotte and David break down what's new...

Jun 10, 202445 min

Lawfare Archive: A Trip Around Africa with Judd Devermont and Emilia Columbo

From March 3, 2020: The population of Africa is projected to double by 2050, giving the continent one quarter of the world's people by then. Nigeria alone will have a larger population than the United States. To the extent they aren't so already, the world's problems and opportunities will be Africa's, too, and African problems and opportunities will also be the world's. David Priess spoke about developments in African politics and international engagement with two experts from the Africa Progra...

Jun 09, 202444 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (June 6, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on June 6 in front of a live audience on  YouTube  and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes talked to Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff, Lawfare Courts Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and New York Times reporter Alan Feuer about the Georgia Court of Appeal's order staying trial court proceedings in the Fulton County case, what Judge Cannon has been up to in the Southern District of Florida, including ...

Jun 08, 20241 hr 25 min

Lawfare Archive: The Migrant Caravan and Its Dissenters

From October 27, 2018: There is a caravan—you've probably heard something about it. Stephanie Leutert, director of the Mexico Security Initiative at the Robert S. Strauss Center for International Security and Law, has heard something about it. On Friday, Benjamin Wittes caught up with Leutert to talk about her time on the Mexico-Guatemala border traveling with migrants who are following a trail not unlike that of the caravan. They talked about why people are joining this caravan, what are altern...

Jun 08, 202445 min

Lawfare Daily: Mary McCord on the Effort to Hold Fake Electors Accountable

In 2022, Georgetown University Law Center’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection and Stafford Rosenbaum filed a lawsuit against ten Wisconsin fraudulent electors, Kenneth Chesebro, and James Troupis for their efforts to subvert the 2020 election. Earlier this year, ICAP reached two settlements with the defendants, which resulted in thousands of pages of text messages, emails, and other correspondence being turned over, providing new insight into how exactly the fake electors sche...

Jun 07, 202437 min

Rational Security: The “Morning After” Edition

This week, Quinta and Scott were joined by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss how he is coping with the end of the New York trial and to run through some of the week’s big national security news stories, including: “A Perfect Conviction.” Last week, after less than two days of deliberation, a jury in New York state criminal court found former President Trump guilty of all 34 criminal counts on which he was being tried. He’s now scheduled to be sentenced just days before the Republi...

Jun 06, 20241 hr 12 min

Lawfare Daily: OpenAI’s Shutdown of State-Backed Information Operations with Alex Iftimie

On today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Alex Iftimie, a Deputy General Counsel at OpenAI, to talk over their recent report revealing that OpenAI has shut down several state-backed information operations using OpenAI’s artificial technology services. They discussed the operations themselves, how OpenAI is investigating and responding to such activities, and what they tell us about how the nascent artificial intelligence industry is impacting state-backed informa...

Jun 06, 202441 min

Lawfare Daily: Ashley Deeks and Mark Klamberg on AI and National Security

Ashley Deeks, Professor at the University of Virginia School of Law, and Dr. Mark Klamberg, Professor at Stockholm University, Visiting Professor at American University, and Fellow with the Atlantic Council, join Lawfare 's Tarbell Fellow Kevin Frazier and Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein to discuss the weaponization of AI. The group explores a number of related topics including ongoing domestic and international efforts to regulate military use of AI, the national security implications of weaponi...

Jun 05, 202440 min

Chatter: The Harrowing History of the Soviet Space Program with John Strausbaugh

In the wake of World War II, the United States and the Soviet Union set off on the great space race, competing to see which super power could put the first human in space and eventually land them on the Moon. As historian John Strausbaugh writes, that race should have been over before it even started.  Strausbaugh’s new book,  The Wrong Stuff: How the Soviet Space Program Crashed and Burned , is a harrowing and frequently hilarious account of how political leaders and engineers slapped...

Jun 04, 20241 hr 16 min

Lawfare Daily: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower with Michel Paradis

This episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with author, attorney, legal scholar, and  Lawfare  Contributing Editor Michel Paradis to discuss the 80th anniversary of D-Day and his new book, “The Light of Battle: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower. ” They discussed understudied aspects of Eisenhower’s unique personal and professional history, how they prepared him for leading what would become the Allied invasion of Europe, and how his ac...

Jun 04, 20241 hr 1 min

Lawfare Daily: What the ‘Kids’ Think of NATO with Rachel Rizzo

Rachel Rizzo, a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Europe Center, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about last month’s NATO Youth Summit. Building off of her chapter  “NATO, Public Opinion, and the Next Generation: Remaining Relevant, Remaining Strong,”  in the 2021 book, “NATO 2030: Towards a New Strategic Concept and Beyond,” Rizzo discusses what NATO thinks of Gen Z and Millennials, the many efforts the Alliance is making to pitch to them its relev...

Jun 03, 202430 min
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