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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfaremedia.org

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfaremedia.org.

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Episodes

What Disqualifying Trump from the 2024 Ballot Would Mean for American Politics and Democracy

In the wake of Donald Trump's role in the attempt to overturn the 2020 election and the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, lawsuits in states around the country are seeking to disqualify him from the 2024 election. Challengers to his eligibility invoke Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides in relevant part that "No person shall . . . hold any office . . . under the United States . . . who, having previously taken an oath . . . as an officer of the United States . . . to support the Co...

Nov 01, 20231 hr 21 min

Breaking Down the Menendez Indictment with Dan Richman

It’s been a rough few months for Senator Bob Menendez. The powerful New Jersey Democrat has pleaded not guilty to federal charges related to an alleged bribery scheme under which, according to prosecutors, Menendez carried out favors for the government of Egypt. But while the allegations set out in the indictment sound pretty unsavory, recent decisions by the Supreme Court—in particular, the 2016 case McDonnell v. United States— make prosecuting such corruption cases significantly more difficult...

Oct 31, 202352 min

The Dangers of a Contingent Election with Beau Tremitiere and Aisha Woodward

We are a little more than a year out from the 2024 election—an election that, in countless ways, promises to be unlike any other. One way it may be different is the very real prospect of a scenario in which neither major party candidate secures enough electoral votes to win, kicking the decision to the House of Representatives in what is called a “contingent election.” Possible third parties are actively discussing the possibility of a contingent election as part of their political strategy—and ...

Oct 30, 202349 min

Rational Security: The ”Covered in Lyes” Edition

This week on Rational Security , Alan, Quinta, and Scott came together in the virtual studio to talk over the week’s big national security news, including: “Stuck in the Middle (East) with You.” The Biden administration is finding itself increasingly pilloried from both sides for its handling of the Oct. 7 massacre perpetrated by Hamas and Israel’s ensuing military response in the Gaza Strip, as the right urges stronger support for Israel while some on the left are becoming more vocal in calling...

Oct 29, 20231 hr 4 min

Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: Three Pleas in a Pod

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” recorded live before an audience of Lawfare Material Supporters on Thursday. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Quinta Jurecic, and Lawfare Fulton County Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower to talk about all the pleas that have happened in Fulton County and all the pleas that are coming. They talked about whether you can take back a plea by announcing that it was extorted,...

Oct 28, 20231 hr 16 min

Lawfare Archive: Amanda Sloat Talks Turkey

From July 3, 2018: Recep Tayyip Erdoğan won the Turkish election the other day, and becomes the first president under Turkey's new empowered presidential system. His party, in coalition with ultra-nationalists, will control the Parliament as well, so it's a big win for the Turkish president. It may be a loss for democratic values. On Tuesday, Benjamin Wittes sat down with Amanda Sloat, Robert Bosch Senior Fellow at Brookings, to discuss the election results, the crackdown in Turkey and the justi...

Oct 28, 202337 min

The U.S. Diplomatic Response in Gaza with Akbar Shahid Ahmed and Robbie Gramer

It’s probably fair to say that the Israeli government was not the only one caught flat-footed by the deadly attack launched by Hamas on Oct. 7. On that day, several of the U.S. government’s top diplomatic posts in the Middle East were vacant, and the Biden administration had long focused most of its attention elsewhere in the world. And, in a now infamous episode from only a week prior to the attack, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan had said, “The Middle East region is quieter today than ...

Oct 27, 202348 min

Chatter: Lincoln, Leadership, and Difficult Conversations with Steve Inskeep

Many will recognize the voice of Steve Inskeep from his nearly two decades-long role hosting NPR's Morning Edition . But he's also the author of what is now a trilogy of books about political relationships in the United States during the 19th century, including his newly published Differ We Must: How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America. His newest book uses a unique framework to study Lincoln's leadership and growth: Describing in detail difficult interactions Lincoln had with sixteen individ...

Oct 26, 20231 hr 7 min

Roger Parloff on a Potential Problem for the Justice Department’s Jan. 6 Prosecutions

The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals last week faintly endorsed the Justice Department’s reading of a critical felony charge, “corrupt obstruction of an official proceeding,” which the department has relied on to prosecute at least 317 individuals for their alleged roles in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. In the case, United States v. Thomas Robertson , the court affirmed the Justice Department’s conception of the definition of “corruptly,” as stated in the charge. Robertson followed another D.C. Circuit ...

Oct 26, 202347 min

Pleas Please Me, Jenna Ellis

Another morning, another surprise plea deal in Fulton County Superior Court. It was Jenna Ellis this time, in front of Judge Scott McAfee, pleading out of the Fulton County election interference case. There was a tearful colloquy and a letter of apology to the people of Georgia. There is a cooperation agreement of some kind, and there is yet another sentence of probation. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down to talk about it all with Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower. They talked about...

Oct 25, 202346 min

Rules for Civilian Hackers in War, with Tilman Rodenhäuser and Mauro Vignati

Thanks to advances in digital technologies, it is now easier than ever for civilians to get involved in military cyber operations. From private civilian companies being involved in cyber defense to individuals engaging in offensive cyber operations against enemy targets, the increased participation of civilians in armed conflict is a risky trend. Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with two guests who recently authored an article outlining eight rules to guide the...

Oct 24, 202351 min

Comparing Approaches to AI Regulation with Arianna Evers and Itsiq Benizri

The promise and risks posed by artificial intelligence appear to have captured our collective imagination. The risks seem to span from global doom brought about by a rogue AI to the enshrinement of harmful bias and discrimination in systems that can determine whether you get a loan. The stakes require governments to step up and regulate the field, with several key companies advocating for government action. This call has been answered, but conceptions of responsible AI risk management and approp...

Oct 23, 202355 min

Rational Security: The ”Third Ballot’s the Charm” Edition

This week on Rational Security , Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by their Lawfare colleague and Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Senior Fellow Eric Ciaramella to discuss the week’s big national security news, including: “PiS Off.” Elections in Poland appear set to oust the incumbent Law and Justice (or “PiS”) party, which has spent the past several years in power undermining many of the tenants of liberal democracy—that is, if the coalition of centrist and leftist groups that won a...

Oct 22, 20231 hr 6 min

Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: A Surprise Plea in Fulton County

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” our weekly YouTube livestream conducted on Zoom for Lawfare Material Supporters. It was a breaking news day on Thursday: Sidney Powell, the Kraken lawyer, pled guilty in a plea deal in Fulton County Superior Court, one day before she and Ken Chesebro were going to trial. To unpack it all, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Quinta Jurecic, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and Law...

Oct 21, 20231 hr 44 min

Lawfare Archive: Radek Sikorski on the Week's Events in Poland

From July 7, 2018: It's been a bad week for Polish democracy, with the government removing a bunch of judges from the country's Supreme Court in order to replace them with party loyalists. In response, protestors took to the streets to push back against the deconsolidation of Polish democracy. Radek Sikorski joined Benjamin Wittes to discuss the week's events and the larger degradation of Polish governance of which they are a part. Radek served as foreign minister and defense minister of Poland,...

Oct 21, 202322 min

The Crisis Facing Efforts to Counter Election Disinformation

Over the course of the last two presidential elections, efforts by social media platforms and independent researchers to prevent falsehoods from spreading about election integrity have become increasingly central to civic health. But the warning signs are flashing as we head into 2024. And platforms are arguably in a worse position to counter falsehoods today than they were in 2020. How could this be? On this episode of Arbiters of Truth , our series on the information ecosystem, Lawfare Senior ...

Oct 20, 202357 min

Chatter: The Secret History of Women at the CIA with Liza Mundy

Journalist Liza Mundy’s new history of the world’s most storied spy service focuses on the women of the CIA, who for decades worked in jobs that men found less glamorous or career enhancing, and that proved vital to the interests of U.S. national security. The Sisterhood covers practically the entire history of the agency, from its pre-World War II days as the Office of Strategic Services, through the Cold War and the 9/11 attacks, followed by the successful hunt for Osama bin Laden. Shane Harri...

Oct 19, 20231 hr 27 min

China’s Approach to Software Vulnerabilities Reporting

In July 2021, the Chinese government published its “Regulations on the Management of Network Product Security Vulnerabilities.” These rules require researchers to inform the government of all flaws in code within 48 hours of their discovery, effectively supporting efforts to stockpile software vulnerabilities, which can then be used for offensive cyber operations. Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with two guests who recently authored a report on how China manag...

Oct 19, 202345 min

‘The Lumumba Plot’ with Stuart Reid

“Stories of armies, governments, agencies, and institutions have a way of obscuring the humans behind them,” writes Stuart Reid, an executive editor of Foreign Affairs in his new book, “The Lumumba Plot.” Indeed, his protagonist, Patrice Lumumba, lays claim to one of history’s most contested legacies. In January 1961, just months after taking office as the first prime minister of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Lumumba was killed in an assassination plot that remained shrouded in mystery f...

Oct 18, 202341 min

Part Two of the PCLOB on FISA Section 702

On September 28, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board , or PCLOB, issued its long-awaited report on FISA Sec. 702, a surveillance authority that is set to expire on December 31 if it is not reauthorized by Congress. The report was supported by only three members of the Board, with the two minority members issuing their own separate statement. The three-two split was along party lines. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with four members of the PCLOB, the Chair, Sharon Bradf...

Oct 17, 202343 min

Part One of the PCLOB on FISA Section 702

On September 28, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board , or PCLOB, issued its long-awaited report on FISA Sec. 702, a surveillance authority that is set to expire on December 31 if it is not reauthorized by Congress. The report was supported by only three members of the Board, with the two minority members issuing their own separate statement. The three-two split was along party lines. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with four members of PCLOB, the Chair, Sharon Bradford ...

Oct 16, 202356 min

Rational Security: The ”Israel and Hamas at War” Special Edition

This week on Rational Security , Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes for a serious conversation about Hamas’s attacks in Israel, Israel’s military response, and what it might mean for the rest of the world. Given the gravity of this topic, we chose to forego our usual format and commit the entire episode to this extended conversation. We will be back to our usual format next week. In the meantime, we hope you find our struggle to make sense of these tra...

Oct 15, 20231 hr 36 min

Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: Hearing Updates from Mar-a-Lago and Fulton County

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” our YouTube livestream conducted on Zoom for Lawfare Material Supporters. This week, we heard from Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff straight out of the Garcia hearings before Judge Aileen Cannon in the Mar-a-Lago case. We heard from Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, who was straight off of two days of hearings in the Fulton County case. And Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic gave us an update from Judge Tanya Chutkan's courtroom on a...

Oct 14, 20231 hr 16 min

Lawfare Archive: Peter Berkowitz on Israel and the Laws of War

From May 8, 2012: Peter Berkowitz of the Hoover Institution has a new book out, entitled Israel and the Struggle Over the International Laws of War . The book, which is very brief—more of a long essay, really—is an impassioned critique of the abuse of the laws of war by Israel's critics in both international organizations and in the academy. Peter runs the Hoover Institution's Koret-Taube Task Force on National Security and Law, of which Ben and several other people associated with this blog are...

Oct 14, 202337 min

What the Heck is a Speaker Pro Tempore?

The past two weeks have been a historical one for the House of Representatives. Last week, a band of dissident Republicans voted with House Democrats to remove Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy, leaving the office vacant. In his stead, a never-before House rule turned to a secret list of temporary successors that identified Congressman Patrick McHenry as the new Speaker Pro Tempore. But what exactly he is able to do in this role—and what it means for Congress’s ability to pass much needed legi...

Oct 13, 202347 min

Chatter: Manic Depression and Crisis Leadership with Nassir Ghaemi

Conventional wisdom has long held that countries, and even businesses, should not be run by those suffering from mental illness, especially during times of war or other dramatic challenges. Dr. Nassir Ghaemi, Director of the Mood Disorder Program at Tufts Medical Center and Professor of Psychiatry at Tufts University School of Medicine, disputes this notion. In his book A First-Rate Madness and other writings, he lays out a compelling case that in times of crisis, we are actually better off bein...

Oct 12, 20231 hr 22 min

Tino Cuéllar and Hadrien Pouget on AI Safety

Artificial intelligence has massive upside potential. It could revolutionize education, science, and art, and lead to a more prosperous and equitable world. But it also carries equally massive downside risk—not just for individuals but for society and human civilization itself. How do we avail ourselves of AI's benefits while minimizing its costs? That's a question that our two guests today have thought a lot about. Tino Cuéllar is a former Stanford law professor and California supreme court jus...

Oct 12, 202352 min

Hamas’s Attack on Israel and What Comes Next

This past Saturday, the terrorist group Hamas launched an unprecedented raid from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel that left more than 1000 people—most of them Israeli civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly—brutally murdered. Dozens more were taken as hostages back into Gaza. A shocked Israel has in turn responded with missile attacks into Gaza that have killed more than 800 Palestinians there, and is planning a broader offensive there. And as people search for more informat...

Oct 11, 202359 min

Special Edition: Noah Efron on the Awful Quiet of This Moment

This morning, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes connected with his old friend Noah Efron about the weekend's events in Israel. Noah is a professor at Bar-Ilan University, a prolific essayist and writer, and the host of The Promised Podcast, a podcast on Israeli life, politics, and culture. In an interview punctuated twice by missile attacks, they discussed what happened over the weekend, the magnitude and horror of the Hamas attack, the impact on Israeli society, and the coming Israeli res...

Oct 10, 202358 min

Taiwan, War Powers, and Constitutional Crisis with Scott R. Anderson

For decades, the United States has maintained a policy of “strategic ambiguity” toward Taiwan and China. But in recent years, this uneasy status quo has begun to falter, as the Biden administration doubles down on its commitment to Taiwan’s autonomy and China increases provocative military maneuvers aimed at signaling its willingness to use force to assert its claim of sovereignty over the island. Despite the devastation that war between the U.S. and China would surely bring, the two seem to be ...

Oct 10, 202353 min
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