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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfaremedia.org

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfaremedia.org.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Episodes

Lawfare Daily: The Fallout from the French Elections

French politics has had quite a summer. In early June, the French far-right made substantial gains in the European Union Parliament. The same day the results came down, French President Emmanuel Macron called snap elections, saying that the rise of nationalists and demagogues was a danger to France and Europe. It was a shocking and risky move. In the first round of elections, the far-right came in first, but after the second round, they were in third. Much of the media moved on after reporting o...

Aug 16, 202459 min

Rational Security: The “Minnesota Nice” Edition

This week, the whole gang—Alan, Quinta, and Scott—got back together to discuss the week's big national security news, including: “In Post-Soviet Russia, Ukraine Invade You!” In an ironic reversal, Ukraine invaded Russia this past week, seizing substantial portions of the oblast of Kursk and surprising both Russian forces and Ukrainian allies in what appears to be its most successful military venture in more than a year. Why did Ukraine take this step? What will it mean in the longer arc of this ...

Aug 15, 20241 hr 9 min

Lawfare Daily: Chris Hoofnagle on the Theory, History, and Future of Cybersecurity

Chris Hoofnagle, Visiting Senior Research Fellow at King’s College and Professor of Law in Residence at the UC Berkeley School of Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , and Eugenia Lostri, Lawfare 's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law, to discuss ALL things cybersecurity—its theory, history, and future. Much of their conversation turns on themes expressed in Hoofnagle’s textbook, “ Cybersecurity in Context ,” that ...

Aug 15, 202438 min

Lawfare Daily: Ukraine Invades Russia

Over the past week, Ukrainian forces have launched a major incursion into Russia proper, occupying 1,000 square kilometers in Kursk Oblast, which borders Ukraine. The operation, which caught both Russia and the United States by surprise, is the first major Ukrainian offensive in more than a year. In this episode, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare 's Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace to discuss the...

Aug 14, 20241 hr 13 min

Chatter: Reconceptualizing National Security with Gina Bennett

Gina Bennett had a remarkable intelligence career of more than three decades, focusing on counterterrorism even before the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 and continuing to apply that expertise long after 9/11. She has written a book about how national security and parenting lessons reinforce each other, taught students at Georgetown University, and mentored women entering national security careers. She joined David Priess to talk about her path into and through the intelligence communi...

Aug 13, 20241 hr 34 min

Lawfare Daily: Rachel Maddow Talks McCarthy, Fascism, and Ultra

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with MSNBC talk show host Rachel Maddow, creator of the new podcast series , Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra, Season II. They discuss the ideological aftermath of World War II on the American far right, the rise of Sen. Joe McCarthy, and the rhetorically incredible cast of characters around him. Why do we remember McCarthy merely as a fierce anticommunist demagogue and not as a neo-Nazi? To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Suppor...

Aug 13, 20241 hr 7 min

Lawfare Daily: Katie Moussouris on Bug Bounties

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Katie Moussouris of Luta Security to talk bug bounties. Where do they come from? What is their proper role in cybersecurity? What are they good for, and most importantly, what are they not good for? Moussouris was among the hackers who first did bug bounties at scale—for Microsoft, and then for the Pentagon. Now she helps companies set up bug bounty programs and is dismayed by how they are being used. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a La...

Aug 12, 202449 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (August 8, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on August 8 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Legal Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower and Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff about what Judge Chutkan has been up to in D.C., state-level prosecutions of fake electors, and took audience questions from Lawfare material supporters. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare . Hosted on Acast. See ...

Aug 11, 20241 hr 22 min

Lawfare Archive: Polina Ivanova on Evan Gershkovich’s Detention

From April 24, 2023: Evan Gershkovich has been in Russian detention for the last several weeks. He is a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, and he’s the latest American taken hostage by the Vladimir Putin regime. His good friend Polina Ivanova is a reporter for the Financial Times, a colleague of Evan’s in Russia, and has been an outspoken advocate for his release. She joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes from Berlin to talk about Evan: who he is, why he has been detained by the Russ...

Aug 10, 202443 min

Lawfare Daily: Big Tech and Law Enforcement, with Lukas Bundonis

On today's episode, Lawfare' s Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri speaks with Senior Privacy Engineer at Netflix and former Army Reserve intelligence officer, Lukas Bundonis. They talked about the relationship between law enforcement and tech companies, what that relationship looks like in the U.S. and other countries, and the different ways in which that communication can be politicized. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare ...

Aug 09, 202449 min

Rational Security: The “Exit, Pursued by a Bear Cub” Edition

This week, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by co-host emeritus Benjamin Wittes to talk through the week's very big national security news stories, including: “The Waiting Game.” The Middle East is on edge this week as it awaits a possible attack by Iran or Hezbollah on Israel in response to the suspected assassination of senior Hezbollah and Hamas leaders last week, including the chairman of Hamas’s political bureau, Ismail Haniyeh, who was killed while visiting Tehran for the swearing in of...

Aug 08, 20241 hr 10 min

Lawfare Daily: Gen. Baker on the 9/11 Guilty Pleas that Were… Then Weren’t

Last week, three defendants in the 9/11 case at Guantanamo agreed to plead guilty in the military commissions. Two days later, the Secretary of Defense pulled out of the agreements. What happened? Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with General John Baker, who served as the Chief Defense Counsel of the Guantanamo Military Commissions until 2021. They talked about how the 9/11 case got to plea agreements after more than a decade of litigation, why Secretary Austin scuttled them, and...

Aug 08, 202436 min

Lawfare Daily: DOJ’s Arun Rao on Consumer Protection, Elder Fraud, and Privacy

On today's episode, Lawfare Contributing Editor Justin Sherman speaks with Arun G. Rao, the Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division's Consumer Protection Branch at the Department of Justice. They discuss DOJ’s consumer protection work, cyber crime and elder fraud, data privacy, and generative AI. You can find out more about Rao’s work at DOJ below: DOJ-Cerebral case DOJ Elder Justice Initiative National Elder Fraud Hotline To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material S...

Aug 07, 202431 min

Chatter: The Art of Political Lawyering with Bob Bauer

On this week’s show, Lawfare’s Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with longtime Democratic lawyer Bob Bauer to discuss his mémoire of political lawyering, “The Unraveling Reflections on Politics Without Ethics and Democracy in Crisis.” Bauer, a longtime Lawfare contributing editor, discusses his career as a litigating street fighter on behalf of Democratic Party causes and some of the regrets he has about party lawyering in an era of rising polarization. Chatter is a production of Lawfare...

Aug 06, 20241 hr 18 min

Lawfare Daily: A New Documentary on Surviving the War in Gaza

A new film from Al Jazeera’s Fault Lines series called “The Night Won’t End” profiles three Palestinian families as they try to survive the war in Gaza. On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien speaks to the documentary’s director, Kavitha Chekuru, along with a few of the journalists and researchers who came together to work on the project, including Emily Tripp, Director at Airwars; Samaneh Moafi, Assistant Director of Research at Forensic Architecture; and Lawrence Abu Hamdan,...

Aug 06, 202454 min

Lawfare Daily: State Senator Scott Wiener on His Controversial AI Bill, SB 1047

Scott Wiener, California State Senator, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , to explore his “Safe and Secure Innovation for Frontier Artificial Intelligence Models” bill, also known as SB 1047. The bill has become a flashpoint in several larger AI debates: AI safety v. AI security, federal regulation or state regulation, model or end-user governance. Senator Wiener and Kevin analyze these topics and forthcoming hurdles...

Aug 05, 202434 min

Lawfare Archive: Carol Leonnig on the United States Secret Service and What to Do About It

From July 7, 2021: The United States Secret Service has many important missions, the most public of which is protecting the president of the United States. And in this mission, its motto is "Zero Fail." There is no window for them to let their guard down when it comes to protecting the commander-in-chief. And yet, the past several decades of the Secret Service's protection have seen gaps, mistakes and exposures of some fundamental problems within the Secret Service itself. Carol Leonnig is a Pul...

Aug 04, 202453 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Trials and Tribulations Weekly Round-up (August 1, 2024)

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on August 1 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Legal Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower and Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff about Mark Meadows’ petition for a writ of certiorari in his attempt to remove his Fulton County election interference case to federal court, the briefing schedule in the government’s appeal of Judge Cannon’s order dismissing the ...

Aug 03, 20241 hr 12 min

Lawfare Daily: A Giant and Unexpected Prisoner Swap

On Thursday, Russia released 16 prisoners in exchange for eight prisoners held in Western countries, including the United States. The prisoners released by the Putin regime included several Americans, most notably Evan Gershkovich of the Wall Street Journal and two other journalists, and long-time prisoner Paul Whelan. Shane Harris of the Washington Post, who covered the story, and Lawfare 's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri, joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to di...

Aug 02, 202445 min

Rational Security: The “Big Worm Energy” Edition

This week, Alan and Quinta were joined by Kevin Frazier to talk through some of the week’s biggest national security news, including: “KOSA Nostra.” An overwhelming majority of senators voted to pass the Kids Online Safety Act, also known as KOSA—a bipartisan piece of legislation that would impose new responsibilities on online platforms in looking after their underage users. Despite the 91-3 vote in the Senate, KOSA has faced strong opposition from a number of civil rights and internet freedom ...

Aug 01, 20241 hr 10 min

Lawfare Daily: Inside Ukraine’s Drone Campaign Against Russia

Anastasiia Lapatina is a Kyiv-based Ukraine Fellow at Lawfare . Marcel Plichta is a Fellow at the Centre for Global Law and Governance at the University of St. Andrews, and a former analyst at the U.S. Department of Defense who currently works as an instructor at the Grey Dynamics Intelligence School. For this episode, Lapatina sat down with Plichta to discuss Ukraine’s ongoing drone campaign against Russia, Ukraine’s choice of targets deep inside Russian territory, and the future of drone warfa...

Aug 01, 202438 min

Lawfare Daily: The End of U.S. Ambition in the Middle East with Steven Cook

For this episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow Steven Cook to discuss his new book , “The End of Ambition: America’s Past, Present, and Future in the Middle East.” Together, they examined the United States’ long history in the Middle East, how it successfully (and unsuccessfully) pursued its interests there, and what should come next after the failed transformations of the post-9/11 era. To receive ad-free po...

Jul 31, 202457 min

Chatter: Confirmations for National Security Positions, with Arnold Punaro

At the start of every presidential administration, the nominees for more than 1,000 civilian positions require Senate confirmation. A large number of those are in the Department of Defense, with confirmation responsibility going to the Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC). And whether it's a new administration or not, the committee processes dozens of civilian nominations for typical turnover reasons and thousands of military promotions as part of regular order. Arnold Punaro, author of the ne...

Jul 30, 20241 hr 20 min

Lawfare Daily: Ryan Calo on Protecting Privacy Amid Advances in AI

Ryan Calo, Professor of Law at the University of Washington, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , to discuss how advances in AI are undermining already insufficient privacy protections. The two dive into Calo's recent testimony before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. Their conversation also covers the novel privacy issues presented by AI and the merits of different regulatory strategies at both the s...

Jul 30, 202438 min

Lawfare Daily: What the Immunity Decision Says About Proving the Case Against Trump

Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes and Legal Fellow Anna Bower to discuss their recent Lawfare article, “ What’s Going On in Footnote 3? ” The article looks at a very specific issue buried in the Supreme Court's recent decision in Trump v. United States , or “the presidential immunity case”: what evidence the prosecution can use—and what it can't—to prove its case. Natalie, Ben, and Anna talked about what footnote 3 says, the many questions it r...

Jul 29, 202447 min

Lawfare Archive: Taking China to Court Over the Coronavirus

From July 1, 2020: As the United States continues to suffer from the effects of the coronavirus, the controversy surrounding China's alleged role in the pandemic has continued to grow. In recent weeks, it has even entered the U.S. courts, as private plaintiffs have brought claims against the Chinese government and related institutions for allegedly contributing to the spread of the virus. Meanwhile, members of Congress have introduced legislation aimed at making such litigation even easier to pu...

Jul 28, 202456 min

Lawfare Archive: Benjamin Wittes and Conor Friedersdorf Debate the Ethics of Drones

From February 15, 2014: Last November, the University of Richmond invited Ben and Conor Friedersdorf to participate in a debate on the ethics of drone warfare. Conor is a familiar voice in the anti-drone camp, as those who have come across his articles in The Atlantic well know. Ritika Singh edited the podcast version of the debate for length and got rid of the introductions and audience questions. It thus proceeds as four speeches: Ben and Conor each give opening remarks, in that order, and the...

Jul 27, 202454 min

Lawfare Daily: Cullen O’Keefe on "Chips for Peace”—AI Supply Chain Governance

Cullen O’Keefe, Research Director at the Institute for Law and AI, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , to discuss a novel AI governance framework. The two analyze Cullen’s recent Lawfare essay in which he details how regulation of AI supply chains by the U.S. and its allies could promote the safe development of AI. Their conversation also explores the feasibility of this and related governance proposals amid geopoliti...

Jul 26, 202443 min

Rational Security: The “Reboot the Reboot” Edition

This week, Alan and Scott sat down with Lawfare Senior Fellow Molly Reynolds and Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri to talk through another week of big national security news, including: “Bye Biden.” President Biden made the historic decision to withdraw from the 2024 presidential race over the weekend. He swiftly endorsed his Vice President Kamala Harris, who now appears poised to become the Democratic candidate at the party’s convention next month. How might Harris be different...

Jul 25, 20241 hr 18 min

Lawfare Daily: Deplatforming Works, with David Lazer and Kevin Esterling

In the runup to Jan. 6, lies and falsehoods about the supposed theft of the 2020 election ran wild on Twitter. Following the insurrection, the company took action—abruptly banning 70,000 users who had promoted misinformation on the platform. But was this mass deplatforming actually effective in reducing the spread of untruths? According to a paper recently published in Nature , the answer is yes. Two of the authors, David Lazer of Northeastern University and Kevin Esterling of the University of ...

Jul 25, 202450 min
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