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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institutewww.lawfaremedia.org

The Lawfare Podcast features discussions with experts, policymakers, and opinion leaders at the nexus of national security, law, and policy. On issues from foreign policy, homeland security, intelligence, and cybersecurity to governance and law, we have doubled down on seriousness at a time when others are running away from it. Visit us at www.lawfaremedia.org.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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Episodes

Lawfare Daily: The Jan. 6 Pardonee Crime Wave with Katherine Pompilio

In a new report for Lawfare , Associate Editor Katherine Pompilio finds that 97 of the more than 1,500 individuals granted clemency by President Trump for their roles in the Jan. 6 Capitol attack have been arrested for, charged with, or convicted of crimes separate from Jan. 6 since their participation in the Jan. 6 riot. On today’s episode, Pompilio joins Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes to discuss the new report, the types of crimes these 97 individuals have been charged with, the power...

Jun 05, 202640 min

Rational Security: The “Mosquitos and Heat and Sweaty and Eww” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, and Lawfare Contributing Editor and Vice President of Research, Security and Defense at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs Ariane Tabatabai, to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including: “The Empire Strikes Out.” Russia’s ground offensive in Ukraine appears to have hit some stiff resistance with it losing territory over the past calendar year in th...

Jun 04, 20261 hr 13 min

Lawfare Daily: Drone Wars in Ukraine

"Jackie" is the call signal of an American Army veteran who volunteered in 2022 with the Ukrainian military and has been fighting the Russians ever since. He's become a significant figure in the storied Third Army Corps, which is one of the elite units of the Ukrainian military and has pioneered major advances in drone warfare. He joins Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes at the Goat Rodeo studio to talk about how he came to serve in the Ukrainian army, the changes in drone warfare that have...

Jun 04, 202645 min

Lawfare Daily: Pope Leo XIV Takes on Silicon Valley with Christopher Hale and Renée DiResta

Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical treats AI as the defining social question of our time: not just a technical shift, but a moral fight over dignity, labor, truth, war, and power. In a Lawfare Live on Substack on Wednesday, May 27, Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta talked with Christopher Hale , author of the Substack newsletter “ Letters from Leo ,” about the Vatican entering the AI debate, what it means to “disarm” AI, and why the Pope’s new encyclical is best read not as anti-technology,...

Jun 03, 202649 min

Lawfare Daily: Inside the Upheaval of the Second Trump Administration with Emily Bazelon

On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Emily Bazelon, a staff writer at the New York Times Magazine, the Truman Capote Fellow for Creative Writing and Law at Yale Law School, and the co-host of Slate’s weekly podcast, “Political Gabfest.” They discuss three stories Bazelon and her colleagues recently published in the New York Times Magazine. For this trilogy of oral histories, they spoke with dozens of current and former government employees at the Department of...

Jun 02, 202641 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, May 29

In a live conversation on YouTube , Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, Roger Parloff, and Molly Roberts to discuss three legal challenges to the Trump administration’s “Anti-Weaponization Fund,” a federal judge’s decision to stop the shuttering of the Kennedy Center, post-dismissal developments in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, and more. You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here . And che...

Jun 01, 20261 hr 33 min

Lawfare Archive: White House Pressure, the Justice Department and the Election

From October 9, 2021: The majority staff of the Senate Judiciary Committee has issued an interim report, entitled “ Subverting Justice: How the Former President and His Allies Pressured DOJ to Overturn the 2020 Election .” A lot of it covers ground we knew about previously, but it contains a raft of new details about the president's pressure on the Justice Department to support his election fraud claims, the resignation of a U.S. attorney in Georgia, and the bizarre attempt to install as acting ...

May 31, 202652 min

Lawfare Archive: The Public Integrity Section, Threats, and Criminal Contempt with John Keller

From May 27, 2025: John Keller, now a partner at Walden, Macht, Haran, & Williams, channeled his experience as the former Chief of the Public Integrity Section at the Department of Justice to discuss three recent developments with James Pearce, Lawfare Legal Fellow. They discussed proposed changes to the Public Integrity Section that could hamper the Justice Department’s ability to investigate and prosecute corruption matters in a fair and impartial matter. Keller weighed in on whether the J...

May 30, 20261 hr 21 min

Lawfare Daily: How Ukraine Is Winning the Drone War

Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Jimmy Rushton, a Kyiv-based journalist and security analyst who recently published, “ How Ukraine gained the upper hand in the drone war against Russia ,” in the Kyiv Independent. They talk about how the balance of power in the drone war seems to have shifted in Ukraine’s favor, Russia's latest missile strike on Kyiv, and what it all means for Russia’s broader strategic position in its war against Ukraine. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a La...

May 29, 202632 min

Rational Security: The “Potty Like It’s 1999” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower and Eric Columbus, and his Brookings colleague Molly Reynolds, to talk through a couple of the week’s big news stories in domestic politics, including: “The Grift That Keeps On Giving.” Last week, the Justice Department announced the creation of a so-called Anti-Weaponization Fund of nearly 1.8 billion taxpayer dollars, from which purported victims of politically motivated prosecutions can apply to receive payments. The fund was cr...

May 28, 20261 hr 9 min

Lawfare Daily: Russia’s ‘Tradecraft, Tactics, and Dirty Tricks,’ with Sean Wiswesser

Sean Wiswesser, author of the new book, “ Tradecraft, Tactics, and Dirty Tricks: Russian Intelligence and Putin’s Secret War ,” and a former senior operations officer with the CIA, joins Lawfare ’s Justin Sherman to discuss the major Russian security organs and their training, characteristics of Russian “sticks-and-bricks” surveillance and counter-surveillance tradecraft, and the Russians’ use of coercion, kompromat , and sex (often dubbed “sexpionage”) to recruit and pressure people. They also ...

May 28, 202637 min

Lawfare Daily: Investigating the Investigators: Sophia Yan on Journalism in the PRC

Senior Editor Michael Feinberg sits down with Sophia Yan, a senior foreign correspondent with The Telegraph, to discuss her time reporting on the Chinese government, and how it leveraged its security services to investigate her in turn. Sophia recently wrote in-depth about this experience in “ The secret Chinese surveillance programme tracking people like me ,” in The Telegraph. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can also support Law...

May 27, 202648 min

Lawfare Daily: How the World Sees Trump’s America with Eve Fairbanks and Madeleine Schwartz

On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Eve Fairbanks, a writer and journalist based in Johannesburg, South Africa, and Madeleine Schwartz, founder and editor-in-chief of The Dial, a magazine of international writing , to discuss The Dial’s forthcoming book, “How We See it: The World Looks at America in the Age of Trump” (out June 9 from The New Press) . They speak about several essays in the collection, which is made up of contributions by journalists from aroun...

May 26, 202653 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, May 22

In a live conversation on YouTube , Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, and Roger Parloff discussed the Department of Justice’s newly-announced “Anti-Weaponization Fund” which purports to “hear and redress claims of others who suffered weaponization and lawfare,” oral argument in Anthropic v. U.S. Department of War before the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, and more. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare . ...

May 25, 20261 hr 39 min

Lawfare Archive: Why Public Health is Critical to National Security

From April 2, 2025: Atul Gawande is a surgeon and a public health expert. He's also the former head of global health at the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), an agency that the Trump administration has prioritized for dismantling since its first day in office. On today's episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Gawande to discuss what USAID does, the consequences of destroying it, and why public health is so important to U.S. national security. Editor's Note: This ...

May 24, 202658 min

Lawfare Archive: Former Deputy Chief of the Justice Department's Capitol Siege Section Alexis Loeb on President Trump's Pardons

From January 23, 2025: Alexis Loeb, the former Deputy Chief of the Capitol Siege Section of the Department of Justice, sits down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff to talk about President Trump's blanket pardons and commutations for everyone her unit prosecuted. She discusses how she became involved with the cases; how they were handled by prosecutors, judges, and juries; a couple of cases she personally prosecuted; and her views on the impact of Trump's pardon proclamation. To receive ad-...

May 23, 202641 min

Lawfare Daily: Trump Sues Self, Settles

This week, the Department of Justice announced that Trump and his sons dropped their lawsuit against the IRS and Treasury in exchange for a $1.776 billion fund for Trump’s allies and blanket immunity from government suits for the Trump family. Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes talks with Senior Editor Eric Columbus about what the settlement means, where it came from, and what can be done about it. You can read much more in the piece Eric co-authored with Senior Editor Anna Bower in Lawfare...

May 22, 202650 min

Rational Security: The “No Banner is Safe” Edition

This week, Scott sat down with co-host emeritus Benjamin Wittes and Brookings Senior Fellow Kari Heerman to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including: “With Friends Like Xi.” This past week, top U.S. officials and business CEOs traveled with President Trump to Beijing for his summit with Chinese President Xi Jinping. The summit had a warm air to it, with Trump going so far as to call Xi his “friend,” a far cry from his hawkish stance toward China during the campaign and hi...

May 21, 20261 hr 14 min

Lawfare Daily: Ancient China and Modern Politics

Senior Editor Michael Feinberg sits down with Daniel Bell, a professor at the University of Hong Kong, who recently wrote, “ Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters: Four Dialogues on China’s Past, Present, and Future .” They discuss the ongoing influence of ancient Chinese political theory on the contemporary policies of the PRC and its domestic debates. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can also support Lawfare by making a o...

May 21, 202652 min

Lawfare Daily: ‘The Warhead’ with Jeffery Stern

Loren Voss, Senior Editor at Lawfare , sits down with Jeffrey Stern to discuss his new book " The Warhead: The Quest to Build the Perfect Weapon in the Age of Modern Warfare ." They talk about the development of the Paveway bomb and the importance of precision weapons to modern warfare. Stern grapples with their complicated effects on warfare, both adding precision to warfare that can reduce civilian casualties but also distancing the human element from killing, allowing force to be used more fr...

May 20, 202640 min

Lawfare Daily: The Costs (and Cultural Cachet) of the Cambridge Spies

Senior Editor Michael Feinberg sits down with Antonia Senior, whose new book on the history of the Cambridge spy ring, “ Stalin's Apostles: The Cambridge Five and the Making of the Soviet Empire ,” comes out in the United States at end of this month. They talk about the history of the spy ring, how they were recruited, how they were unmasked, and their lasting effect on the culture of espionage. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can...

May 19, 202653 min

Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, May 15

In a live conversation on YouTube , Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, and Roger Parloff to discuss Judge Boulee denying Fulton County’s motion for the return of the 2020 election ballots seized by the FBI, a judge ordering the National Endowment for Humanities to rescind DOGE-backed cancellation of grants, oral argument in Mark Kelly v. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, and more. You can find information on legal challenges t...

May 18, 20261 hr 43 min

Lawfare Archive: How China Might Coerce Taiwan

From May 15, 2025: For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman talked with Evan Braden Montgomery and Toshi Yoshihara, both Senior Fellows at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, to discuss their recent Lawfare article, " Beijing's Changing Invasion Calculus: How China Might Put Taiwan in its Crosshairs ." Together they discuss how China might use a blockade, subversion, and nuclear threats to intimidate Taiwan, the United States, and key regional states like J...

May 17, 202638 min

Lawfare Archive: A Very Special Grand Jury Report

From January 10, 2023: District Attorney of Fulton County Fani Willis has completed her special grand jury investigation of election tampering in 2020. The special purpose grand jury has completed its report and has been dissolved, and the supervising judge yesterday scheduled a hearing for January 24 to decide whether to make the report public. What will happen next? Will there be indictments? Are they going to wait until after the report comes out, or should we expect them imminently? Should w...

May 16, 202659 min

Lawfare Daily: Corruption, Coverups, and Crisis in Domestic Ukrainian Politics

Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Danylo Mokryk, a war crimes investigator at the Kyiv Independent and the author of a YouTube blog about domestic Ukrainian Politics, to talk about the latest corruption saga engulfing the Ukrainian government—and why, despite so many arrows pointing toward Zelensky personally, no one is calling for his removal. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . You can also support Lawfare by making a on...

May 15, 202646 min

Rational Security: The "Middle-Aged Dads" Edition

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Senior Editor Michael Feinberg and Foreign Policy Editor Dana Stuster for a little chat with the guys about the week’s big national security news stories, including: “Minding Your Bs and Ts.” President Trump arrived in China this week alongside top U.S. officials and business executives for a much-anticipated summit with President Xi Jinping. U.S. diplomats hope the summit will revolve around the “five Bs”—meaning U.S. beef, soybeans, Boeing ...

May 14, 20261 hr 13 min

Lawfare Daily: Rep. Sara Jacobs (D-CA) on Congress’s Role in Foreign Affairs

On today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Rep. Sara Jacobs, who represents California’s 51st congressional district. As a member of the House armed services and foreign affairs committees, Rep. Jacobs has taken a lead role on an array of foreign affairs-related legislation. Before being elected to Congress, she worked for the U.S. Department of State and the United Nations. Together, Scott and Rep. Jacobs discuss her and her colleagues’ efforts to oppose the Iran...

May 14, 202640 min

Lawfare Daily: Terrorism and Insurgency in sub-Saharan Africa

For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman sits down with Holly Berkley Fletcher, former CIA Africa analyst, and Alexander Palmer, fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, to discuss the growth of terrorism and instability in East and West Africa, the fragility of regional governments, and how the United States and other outside powers are shaping the region. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare . Yo...

May 13, 202650 min

Lawfare Daily: Russian PMCs Update with Candace Rondeaux

Candace Rondeaux, the founder and principal of Frontline Atlas, an independent geopolitical risk intelligence hub; a professor with the Future Security Initiative at Arizona State University; and a senior fellow in global security at New America joins Lawfare ’s Justin Sherman to discuss the latest geopolitics, operations, and state of Russian private military companies (PMCs). They discuss the current state of Russia’s Wagner Group and other Russian PMCs, their roles in recruitment of people to...

May 12, 202653 min

Lawfare Daily: What the War Powers Resolution Means for Iran

In February, the Trump administration launched Operation Epic Fury in Iran—without congressional approval. The War Powers Resolution is supposed to constrain the president's ability to wage war. But is it? On today's podcast, Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett talks with Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson about what that law says, whether it's affecting the administration's conduct, and how—or if—it can be enforced. You can read more of Scott's analysis in Lawfare here: https://www.lawfaremedi...

May 11, 202659 min
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