Loud, Live and in Her Glory w/ Ts Madison

Mingo and the lands all across the land. This is your grol T. S. Madison and I'm coming to you loud, live and always unfailor in color from the marvelous Chateau. I feel like my day is a complain if I have not heard you say that. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. There's something about a really good catchphrase, and today's guest has so many, so many

of them. I am so ex ight it. I'm going to be speaking with T. S. Madison, a woman who has inspired me, who has cracked me up for years, and I just think it's a genius of personal branding and just a superstar. T. S. Madison is an openly transgender entertainer, social media personality, entrepreneur, and l g B t Q plus activist. Tis Madison has worked her ass

off for decades to create her own platform. She became a YouTube sensation as the co host of The Queen's Supreme Court, and now it's the star of the new we TV show, The T. S. Madison Experience. Please enjoy my conversation with T. S. Madison. Hello, T. S. Madison, and welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling today? Girl? Over Cox Honey, the inventor of all the things. I am sitting here with you. Girl. It is time. It is so overdue. It's so overdue. We should let the

people know. Recording this on March fifth, the day after the premiere of The T. S. Madison Experience on we TV. And how do you feel about the first episode? How do you feel? This is so the long time coming? But today I'm really like a producer Laverne, you know the first time when you when you produce your show, like you like, what are the numbers and what are they saying? And what's the feedback? And how do the people like it? God? I still I'm doing all this pressed.

It's it's a lot. You know. I don't know how you've done it for so many years, because we've all watched the Laverne Cox experience. I can't tell you, Maddie, I've been perpetually exhausted for like eight years. But I'm saying, no, the more things that I can have a little bit more time to myself. You have to find your time to recharge. You have to find your time to like right now, isn't that time right the wave now? No,

this is definitely not not the time. And I'm gonna do the best that i can to my energy high. And I want to say this though, I want to say thank you for unscrewing the door and leaving it open. And one thing that Funky Dyneva says all the time is that when we occupied spaces as LBGT plus people, we can't go in there and up the thing. How do you have to make sure that you do it and leave the door open for other people to come

behind you? And and and we have to go in there with grace and dignity and all of this stuff. And I'm gonna share a little bit. Mm hmm, girl, Why y'all got the glad police on me? I didn't have the Glad police is on you? Girl? What what's going on with the team? No, they're good. No, they're really good. Like I know, I'm just I'm I'm making a joke out of it. It's it's really good. Like they want to pr train you and stuff to make sure because of our list. Listen, it's no secret hood.

I'm a loud, loving and color and you know, I don't give a day. I'm sometimes but I have found out that in this process right now and going on this place, that the responsibility that that you have as a as a torchbearer, it can be a little bit overwhelming, a little bit, you know, because like you you have to be very careful about stuff that you say, because you know, you don't just represent yourself anymore. You represent a plethora of people, not only LBGT plus people, black people,

you know, women and women. Can I tell you that pressure? I mean for me, it really hit in twenty fourteen, It really hit Ineen when after the Katie Kirk interview after Time magazine cover. But I think we're in a new space now. I don't know when I think we have to let that go because I think we have to be responsible for our community. But I think now with you and there's so many trance people out there now on TV right so You don't have to represent

the whole community. You can represent you and you. You're hilarious. You know, I've been watching you for years, girl, so I and I still watch you, and I can. I can sit and watch T. S. Madison in the car ordering going to like McDonald's or whatever, ordering food. I love. It's such a trance thing that, like, so when you're talking, you know, you're talking in the car and all of a sudden you're on the intercom, Hi, can I please order a you know, two piece with It's just that

never gets old either. There's just so many things they clocked, that voice hone you, that drives through how do you may get up? You may get some floor on your hamburger, girl, your hamburger birl may start and tasting like You're like, you want this ship taste like the floor? What did they do to my hamburger? There's just so many nuances like it is the most entertaining thing ever. T. S. Madison after Dark is my favorite. Shout out to Litanya girl.

The stories I live for the stories of of the trade and the clients, and I live for all of it. We need this, we need and we needed for a very long time, and I think the beautiful thing is is that now the world is ready. And I think when I said this to Billy Porter, we were talking a few weeks ago, and I said, it's still beautiful that you're still alive and that you survived because the world has caught up to you. And Madison, the world has caught up to you. We don't have to be

in this respectability politics anymore. And that's really why I wanted to have this conversation today. And for me it was you. You have to look at it to lavern my entrance into uh mainstream visibility because you know, I've been an underground girl for a long time, but my interest into that was just me selling a product. When I was doing the little vines, it was just me selling the product at the time in the business that I was in. We should clarify for the audience that

I don't think you'll mind me saying it. Maddie has a history and sex work and she um started her own porn business and turned it out, and like you were, you were peaking at that time too, like Boom, and they were tearing me up like all honey, you are trash and la Vernes queen and your this and the other, and I'm like, I'm not trying to be like like we're all different, Like why can't I not celebrate my sister who's paving the way for something I may occupied

this space. I don't know, why would y'all do that? And the gaggy is Laverne loves the t S. The t S loves Laverne, and she knows that we are polar opposites, but we are the same. So we got that's the piece. It's like when I I was watching the show last night, I was like, yes, Mattie and I on the service. To me, it seemed completely different. But I'm from Alabama, I have a religious mother, I grew up in the church. I am a block transplant.

There's so many things that we have in common. It's very different and path and like, but for the grace of God, I may have been having to do what you were doing, you know, on the stroll in Miami and in Atlanta. But it's all good. It's all good. And what I love about your history and sex work is that you're open and honest about it. You tell the truth about It's like their stories or legendary and

I'm so happy that you survived it. But then I think that it's so important that you you You were like, I need to be the boss. I need to be the one producing these videos. I need to be the one distributing them, because that's where the money is. Can you talk to us about when when it clicked for you that you were like, Okay, I need to be the boss of this and not be, you know, just used by these other people who are really making the real money. When I actually sat back and I watched

the way that can I be candid leavern girl? I want you to I want you here to be fully you and do you? Yes, girl, relax and do you She gave me permission. Okay, listen, when I saw all those white companies pimping out, and I do feel I don't want to say pimping out heavy because you know, we go in knowing that we need to start somewhere, But I'm saying pimping out, Like, girl, we work for these people, like our black skin is so expensive. It is expensive. Our black skin is powerful, Our black skin

is like the money maker. And you get us and you give us quarters, pennies, nickels on the dollar, to bear our nude bodies to perform in in in the video. You own all the rights, you own this stuff, and then you market the white girl as better than us. And this is no shade to my to my white sisters, but you market the white girl better than us. This art here, this is God. And you know those are

those girls, and I know you may not. This is the niche if like this go down, if you want to go down this dark place over here, you're gonna like these girls too. But this is what they were buying over here, these the black girls, and you were using this money to make the white girls look look sickly, No, ma'am. Yeah. And that's why I'm so passionate about that, because I need them to understand that I walked into a white world and told them, Now, Madison, when you come do

this scene? You know, would you come do this or would you would you film this? And you now, and if I do, this is what I want. I want. I want money on the front end. I want money on the back end. I want producer rights, I want distribution rights. I want to be able to have residual income from this stuff. Should I pass away right now, my mother can have money, my brothers can have money, whatever. And it was very much like, how does she know about?

How does she know this? How does she know? You know? Um? I was introduced to Phil his name is Phil when he was the owner of Evasive Angles and he evasive. He's um sin white man. He had never produced trans films. They said, I have been watching you here in Atlanta, like your videos outstaill mine and mine are high, high produced. I said, well, I understand my audience for one, and for two, what you produced don't look like me. And what you have to understand is I know you're coming

down here to sail to an urban market. I got there a lot, baby. I don't work to beat out. I've been on the chat line. I don't dealt with the trade. I know what what they like. I know what men who are attracted to plus size black women what they're gonna like on a plus size black trans woman. It felt home to a lot of black men when I was, you know, making those films, because that's t Shirt,

that's Kinika, that's Tasha. You know that I put to school with her up to really understanding when I'm hearing, is that a person who really who learned the market the hard way, and then it was like, Okay, this is the market. I'm going to produce a product for that market. This is it's capitalism. And what I just love about it is that you have always been a businesswoman. And when you when I became aware of you was

when your vine went viral new Weave twenty two inches. Yeah, and literally a girlfriend of mine showed that we are having a group text and a girlfriend and I was like, I was like, what's going on? And I looked you up and then there were videos, a bunch of videos, and I found out who you were. That was that when that vine went viral? Was that intentional? Was that? And then how are you able to capitalized on that vine going viral? Like because I knew you made money? No, Lavernion,

it actually was not intentional. I stumbled across a social site where I saw people putting up a little six second videos and I initially started out funny, even hilarious. It's hilarious, girl. Yes, I remember the first vine that I ever put up. It was when Beyonce was pregnant, and I remember me putting this thing on my stomach and me sitting down and and like reenacting when she sat now on a talk show she was doing. And I just there was one vine that I put up, girl,

it ain't really getting no traction. It was a little people, you know, laughing and joking at it. But I started scrolling through vine and I said, wait a minute, they have after dark. What is this? So I clicked the hashtag and I'm looking at the hashtag. I was like, wait, are they nude on't here? Okay, I'm typing away, researching like how how many clicks does this kid? And how does this is this marketable? Oh? Here we go. Let me promote my website. So that's all it was for me.

So I did it. I had no idea what was gonna happen. And now way were now just yes, boom, just boom it just Laverty was boom huge. And so some boys from New Orleans and some I don't want to call them trade, but honey, they got those tendencies. Some boys from New Orleans stumbled across it and reposted it and and typed in the caption this right here, how does this woman have a dick? How's that for a little true after tiny break, We've got more for you.

We are back picking up where we left. That's what it was. How does this woman have a day? And I promise you it was them reposting that. Let me title it right, How does this fat woman have a dick? Oh my god, it was insane. It was like crazy. I woke up the next morning and it was like, all this stuff is everywhere, like everywhere. So the boy who reposted it, he had came up with all of these I think that they may translate to transphobic slurs, but he came up with this. He called me a sugar.

Oh my god, I heard all of them sugar. And so he went on this tirade like wearing me out. But the more he wore me out, the more that it started to spread. So I started doing little videos to him, like, you know, taunting him. And the more I taunted him with the videos, the more they were going about because me naked and all this stuff or whatever the girl, And then more people were going to your side, the side yes, And then I started my

site increase. And then I'm gonna tell you what really made me start marketing the moment that they took one of the little pieces and put it on Tosh point. Oh, I remember it being my birthday, October twenty second, two thousand and fourteen. I was I was in the bed sleeping and ten o'clock Tosh came on and it said, all right, everybody, let us introduce you to your dick

of the week. So I'm seeing him and I'm like, wait a minute, and it's me at The audience went crazy and it's like after that girl, I said, man, you gotta make you some T shirts. Well with the T shirts, what did the T shirts saying? She got a dick? Oh my god, Yes, she got up dick. And it was all because I was arguing with this this boy. He was like, I don't know what you are? What are you? Are you a woman? Oh my god?

And I really think this was a big, big introduction to people might have been bad, could have been bad to people who had never seen a trance person, who if I was just doing regular vice, he possibly would have thought that, you know, I was just uh, this black woman. But what drove him insane was him seeing it. And it's just like so confused by I've been confused because he was a little If he's spending that much energy, he was probably a little turned on excited girl. That's why.

That's why I said a trade tendencies. Um. If I ever get an opportunity to run into him anywhere, he probably won't talk to me. What I would say, you know, I want to thank you. You're you're messy and you're confused, and you know it caused me to be in the place that i'm and now he helped that, like this boy was on a rampage doing these videos about me.

What I will say to you, though, Maddie, is that not everybody, not every transperson, could take that opportunity and then let it lead to the next thing in terms of monetary gain, in terms of raising your profile. And so I would love for people out there listening is to be like, Okay, what can I do? How can I, like Maddie, take a moment and really make it into something. It's an entrepreneur and so that in to better my life. Well,

I think it's because the hustle in me Laverne. I think it was because I did work the street and stuff like that. Whatever I needed to do to make work for me to survive. You know, you have to turn lemons into lemonade, you know, And it's like nothing is guaranteed. The streets are guaranteed, but the tricks, they're not guaranteed. You know, none of this stuff is guaranteed.

So you've gotta be trying to figure out how am I gonna turn the next dollar without killing anybody, without robbing anybody, Because listen, my mother taught me, whatever you put out, you will receive back. And I've always been afraid to do anything malicious to a person, even when I'm angry and I want to get back, I always think and hear her saying, boo, you know, God gonna give you what you give others, you know, so it

always keeps me away from doing anything malicious. But girl, anytime, any time anything malicious comes to me, I'm gonna monetize off of the girl. So if a person is out there reading me for fil I'm gonna make a T shirt, I'm gonna make a coffee mug, I'm gonna some eyelashes, I'm gonna make a pencil. That's you know. I'm gonna do this stuff because you gotta turn all your pain into profit. Years ago, you had magnets that step your pussy up. Magnets the check less literally about four or

five to support you. But then I also gave them to get to the girl my girlfriends. What was it? Check list? Step your what is it? Own? A business? What? What? What? What was it? Let me tell you, Liver, that was a vine. That was a vine from me reading that boy. Oh yes, yes, there there it is. I didn't get hadn't. I didn't know the origin story I was reading. I was reading him. I was like, how do you talk about me every day? Can't you find something else to do?

Be yourself? Bid, step your pussy up, honey, get a job on the business and so you know that day I had their belong here on I was over rid. Girl. Can I tell you your personal brand? And the branding and the catchphrases are legendary. I mean, is it on? Can? Well? Is it on? Started? I will tell you how that started. Girl. Are you're going to holler? So just get rid of holler? And you're gonna say, girl, do you take everything that

you do and make money? Yes? I was trying to figure out on YouTube because you know, people were they were making them videos and about me on YouTube. I had my girlfriend, Diamond Styles. I don't know if you know Diamond Styles. I loved I love Diamond Styles and she was doing these interviews with with trans people, and trans Girl had made a video. Well she interviewed her and she said something about me, and I was like, I'm going to cuss this bitch out, you know, And

so I was like, how do you? How do you do this? I got my computer and I started and I didn't know if it was. Of course, I was like I was, I said, is it on? Is it on? Honey? Is this bitch recording? Like? Is the aggression? I was so eager to try to get the thing on so I could cuss off. So know it yourself. Man, when Maddie wants to cut somebody out, this is an opportunity for a new catchphase and a new monetary moment. Is it on? Is it on? It this bitch recording? Hello? YouTube? Snapchat?

But it could give us the honey? Is this misrecording? I was like, honey, is it on? Is it on? Honey? Is this misrecording? What's up? YouTube? Lay and Twitter and Instagram, land, snapchat, ground, the scruff b g C Jack, Facebook, Periscope and less but not least, if a single one of my bitch isn't Chorison Mingo and the lands all across the land. This is your girl, T s Madison. I'm coming to you loud live and always unfailor in color from the

marvelous Chateau Girls. I ever gets old, Maddie, Can I tell you? I've been watching your videos for years, You've been saying there for you, it never gets old. I feel like my day is a complete if I have not heard you say that it gets And then the loud, live and in color section, I just I live, I live for you. The new show, and we should probably talk a little bit about your show, but I love that it's still you. That they didn't because I was like, oh,

we don't need to sanitize Maddie. We just need to let Maddie just be Maddie because she's enough. And I saw the show and it's you. I felt the team I UM and miss Mary. It's just obviously we've gotten to know miss Mary through your own YouTube and Facebook um stuff. But miss Mary was just so transcendent last night. She reminds me a little bit of my mother a little bit. She was just so it was so beautiful. I cried, I cried, I cried, I laughed. It was

so good. It was really really good. It was like it was I was thinking, this is this dysfunctional family that like most of us have, that is that you read each other and you might fight, but it's all in love and you feel the love. And I think that's why people love you, because we feel your heart and we felt it in the show, and that just it just it warms my heart. I honestly told the network, I was like, listen, if you police me too hard to show will flop. I know when and where to

turn up. I ain't that crazy, but but you gotta let me do me, you know. And it's World of Wonder that's producing the show. And I felt very comfortable with World of Wonder producer show. You've been working with the World of Wonder for years. You did a series in the car with them, let me pick you Up, Let me pick you Up. And it was important for me to explain to them, listen, I'm coming to you with this project that I have right now. I needed to be me. I don't need to work for you guys,

I need us to work together. And you know that's how I became executive producer of it. And when I watched it last night, I was like, Wow, I felt that these people have my back and I felt you know, reality t V can be messy, Laverne. You know we've been in this, but I felt that that was not the angle that they wanted to go. They don't want to go messy like they have other shows that are messy.

It's a new day. It's a new day. And I also understand that you thought to have black people on your crew and l g B t Q people on your crew. And it makes a difference who's making the show. It makes a difference who is the director, who's the showrunner, who's writing, if there's writing, who's editing. All those things make a difference in terms of how we're represented. And it felt like you. It felt like you, and it felt authentic. It is it is me, Laverne, it is

it's me. It's my family, you know, my mother. Listen, I'm not going to try to clean up her words. If she want to say strue, then let us say damn strue streaming, which is she doesn't. If she wanta ain't Fitch annual, fitch geral, then that's what it is. Oh, she's so adorable. She's so adorable, and it's just so beautiful. And I think to the love, the unconditional love that Miss Mary has for you have always made for years my brother and I. My brother loves you as well,

and we've talked about it for years. Just the relationship that you guys have that is so it's just real. And I think what people also need to know is that there's a lot of mis Mary's out there. My mother never ever growing up with hard and I've talked to her about it. I've talked publicly growing up it's hard. But once I moved away and I was in New York and I started at my transition, she never said I don't want to see you. She never said I'm going to disown you. She that that was never. She

was concerned about my health and well being. She didn't understand, of course, but she never said I'm going to disown you and I don't want to be in your life. And I know that happens to a lot of people, but there are a lot of black mothers out there who have loved their LGBTQ children. There are so many out there who who are have and are loving their children. Can I be honest with you? I want to be honest with you, Laverne, please for me, which I think

we're gonna do into it more in the season. You'll see, because I learned a lot about myself filming this this show. I I listened to her during the filming of this listen, and it wasn't the fact that she was in the church and and and save and stuff like that. It was the fact that I heard everything around like everybody else that the've be in the church, me going to church, and you know, gay is going to hell, and don't

be like this. You know what they do in the South all that, and and if you become one of them, yes, if you're an old girl. The bill they passed, it's awful, I know. And they say if you turn out to be there, you're definitely gonna bust hell wide open. So you hear this stuff, and then you you hear your mother love God so much, and you're like, oh my God, like in my heart, like I don't want to embarrass my family. So you leave, Yeah, you leave, you you leave,

and it's so important that you you go to find yourself. However, when I hear her talk, now I understand it at an older age. Now I hear to talk, and she says, you didn't give me a chance to accept you. You didn't give me a chance to grow with you. You didn't give me a chance. And I was like, because I heard everything around and this is why we helped to make sure that the conversation that we're having around young people aren't homophobic and aren't transphobic, because you don't know,

this is a straight world. We live in, this straight world. There were so many homophobic There were so many homophobic things I heard from my mother's lips when I was growing up, a churchgoing woman, Christian woman I heard, and so of course I thought that there was not going to be a space for me to be myself. And like it was, it was really clear. And I was a bully kid who everyone was calling the effort in

the city and all these things. Yeah, me too, and and I was taking to therapy in third grade, you know, to like fix me and make me more masculine, so all those things. So of course I didn't think that she would accept me. So I needed new I needed to get out of Mobile, Alabama as soon as possible so I could be myself. And that's what I did. You had to leave to find yourself. But what we left at home were parents that we didn't give the

opportunity to do that. And I think that every time my mother was sitting here watching the show play that she was just crying, like this is so real for her. And I feel like that if I can go back and do some of this again, I definitely would tell my younger stelf, you know, break it down for you know, get mad at her, walk out and come back in and be like, Mama, this is what's going on. And maybe I wouldn't have been introduced to this dark world

that I was introduced to. Maybe I wouldn't have been involved in the streets or or maybe I wouldn't have, you know, know the street hustle and know the trade and know all the dark stuff. And maybe a lot of people wouldn't be subjected to because I'm speaking from me, a lot of trains people wouldn't be subjected to HIV, AIDS and diseases. And what I know it's the truth, though,

is that without a test there's no testimony. And your story is a story of so many other trans women out there, black trans women who are hustling right now, who have hustled and they they need to see themselves too, and they need to see themselves, you know. You know there's other trans women who are high profile. We have talked about sex work, but not like you know, the sex stories the t S. Madison after Dark is legendary. I live, I live. I love it too. You know

why I love it. It's because we have to. We have to tell those sex stories because this is what goes on, this is what happens in our lives, and some of those sex stories could definitely solve some of those trans murders that have that have happened. Thank you,

And I love the way you talk about this. You've talked very candidly in a way that like I've never fully been able to that when that when men lie and say they don't and they didn't know often when trans every time, almost every time a trans woman is murdered, it's like, well you should tell them, And you've always been for years saying they already know. They just don't

want you to know. And people want to be in denial that men are tracted to us and are having sex with us and doing all the things with us. People want to be in denial. You know, I'm thinking about like men, how a lot of men who date

us state trans women don't come forward. And I was, like, most of the men who are having sex with us, do you see it's as women and it's not a big difference for them, And I think the denial and like the so many women my man would never I'm like, girl, girl, yeah, yeah, good, and girl listen. So this is why when people like, oh, Masses, she's all she talks about is sex. I'm like, it's important that I talk about these things because there's a there's this fiction going on that men don't love us,

men aren't having sex. Yes they are. They are loving us, They are having sex with us. They are paying for surgeries. They are investing in our and the way we look, They invest in the way we live. Girl, you know one of my lives love iron. I've been in the marvel Let's chateau all these years, Bitch, I worked for nobody, somebody husband paying for me, you know, and this in the home ownership too. I just love I mean, I

love it. I love that you. I think I remember one video you talked about how you had to like work extra for you. You You didn't put any money down for the mortgage and so you have to work extra for it. And can you talk about the home ownership and how it's so important for you to own your own home or it's extremely important for me and for for me to push that for home ownership or ownership of a wheen this, how's this big? How's bigger than

this of an apartment or whatever? Because we are always deemed homeless and we do suffer, you know, from from homelessness in our community. However, when you when you have the opportunity to bitch, do everything that the straight people can do. Girl, go out there and buy you a house. When you got the money, if you're gonna sell your coachinge go out there to save you up a love

money and buy you a house. So that, honey, when that Coucci is old and retired, girl, you can get an equity loan on your house, honey, and start your business or something. Do something. It is important because this is this is equity. We need to be a part of wealth, Laverne and love that vision. And it's like and so there and for the people who are doing their only fans right now are doing whatever, It's like, what are you saving and what are you building with that.

I gotta take a teensy break here, but I'll be fast. All right, let's get back to it. I mean, some people do sex work for a very long time, and then sometimes you're less marketable as you get older. And so what's the plans, sister? Some people that do anything and they're less marketable when they're older. What's the guy's name that's that's getting evicted from his mansion? I forget. He's the fashion guy Andre Andre Talent. Yes, Andre, that

broke my hard. I love Andre so much. I love him too, But girl, what were you doing with your coin? What are you doing with this stuff? Like? You are a gay man? Who is you? Who is occupying spaces that a lot of us want to want to break into the fashion world? What are you doing with your coin? Forty years? I just I'm obsessed with Andre. So I read Andre's book, Um the chefon Trenches, and Andre got by on the kindness of Carl Logerfelm, the kindness of

the folks. I forget who owns the house and that he lives in. He got by on the kindness of so many people for so long that maybe he wasn't even making money. But he was just being gifted Chanelle and gifted this because he was edited large for vote. But a girl, if you it's a hustle. So if you're hustling when you look at it, if if somebody's donating your house and they're donating you cars, they're donating you bags, and I'm not mad at him at all,

but bitch, be wise in these situations. Girl, you are no matter how hi we go in this world. Laverne, you're transt mass in your trans Andre. You're a gay man. You know, they put limitations on it, even though they black black stay black gay man. And I think I think he thought that those relationships would sustain him, alleged. I read the story about the house. Apparently he um was gifted the house, and he was he made improvements on the house, and he thought it was his and

he believed in the kindness of these white people. I think he believed in that. And the chickens have come home to Ruth and so you cannot rely on the kindness of other folks. You have to make sure you've got your own. I think that's the lesson, and that there are probably details that we don't know about the situation,

it's as cautionary. Taylor's like, what I mean, what's the retirement account, what's the home ownership, what's the hot what's the plan so that we going forward we're not destitute because there's so many people. Bell hooks Um, the feminist writer, when we she owns multiple homes, she was like, I don't want to be one of those black women writers who died penning less. And so we have to we have to plan. Yes, Laverne, listen, the streets have taught

me so much. Howadly the tricks stopped coming, you still got light bible to pay, girl, you better put some money somewhere. So, even though he was not in the sex industry, he was somebody was still gifting him for his for his goods, and the gifts stopped coming. You learned this early and and ho in one oh one. Okay, your dates don't last. Make the money last, yes, And I think the interest, well, so much of our culture is like we're pimping ourselves out in one way or

another in consumer capitalism. Right, So it's like there's so many kind different kinds of sex work. I think I think you know people who want to demonize sex work. I think there's just their degrees of it, and so it's like, what are you going to do to make the most of whatever situation that you're in, you know, and hopefully keep your dignity, keep your dignity and be kind to people, but like, what are you gonna do?

And I love that you keep it real with all of that and tell the truth about it, because hopefully they the young girls coming up in boys and non binary people who are doing there, who are doing their business, are thinking ahead and are thinking um long term and thinking how do I like make more money and capitalized, constantly capitalized and bring and make it, you know, make

it bigger. Yes, then, and it's so important for for we TV and World of Wonder to give opportunities to girls like myself because what it does now is it restructures the narrative that you know, all we do is sex work. Okay, that was then, That was twenty years ago, twenty five years ago. Now, the girls that have done sex work their executive producers, you know, their own networks. They're they're building opportunities so that the narrative changes. You no longer have to be a sex worker. You can

be a sex worker if you want too. But now we see the t S Madison, who was once that go out into this world follow her dreams sex work, got on the internet, blogged about it, talked about it, capitalized off of it, move forward, executive producer, television show, like all of this stuff. So it's just like, wait,

I don't even have to do this no more. And I think that the beautiful thing is that when we tell the stories about our lives, about the dark parts, if it's sex work or whatever, that the perspective changes when we are in control of how the narrative comes forward, and that is you've been in utter and complete control of your narrative since I've known about you. It sounds like for a very long time, yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am. And and there's some people who you know, love sex

working don't want to leave the business. But I think having a vision. I know trans woman who've done sex work and now have master's degrees and they've left that behind. And you've clearly always had a plan for your life.

And it is clear to me that you've had the vision for this show for a very long time when all this stuff was going around with the first incarnation of the the First Queen's Court and its hilarious as you are, you have your testimony is so utterly and completely necessary for you to go from your Internet, your Facebook lives, your YouTube shows to we TV. Is an inspiration to everyone out there. Thank you for being you. Yes, Laverne,

thank you. Like listen, this is a I've always wanted to have a wanted to sit and have a candid conversation with you because I was like girl as loud, laughing and color as I am. I was getting the whip cracked on my back because I wasn't you, and that breaks my heart. Other trans women have told me that another trans woman was fat Shane. Now, people don't know what I eat, first of all, but you have

a black trans woman was fatching by her manager. People who don't know me are saying that when Laverne wouldn't do this or wouldn't do that, and to use it against another trans person, It's never been what I'm about, never and I would. I've never picked myself against another trans person. I don't compare myself. I love and support my sisters and brothers and non binary siblings and not it that breaks my heart. Oh, but here we are here,

we are yeah, we are. You remember when he beat me because I ain't in the in the color purple? Of course I remember, of course, had you girl, I live for the color purple girl. We can help go down a whole color purple rabbit. So that's kind of what it feels like to a lot to lots of trans girls, who who are you know? Coming up? And then we don't have the same story, and I don't want that to be for me, Like now that the doors left open from whatever I've done did, don't compare

to gross. Each girl has their own story. Every girl's story is important. Right now. We have M J. Rodriguez, we have Dominique Jackson, we have India More, we have Hunter Shaffer over on ahdo we have there's so many, we have angelic ross everywhere and just turning it. I mean and Alexandrew Gray, Who's like, we have so many more of us out there now that we hopefully you can let that go. And I think anyone out there. Do not compare trans people to each other. Do not

pit us against each other. We're not interested in that. Do not tell a trans person they need to be more like another trans person that is fucked up. It's utterly fucked up. Do not do that anymore. I like to end the podcast with this question that comes from my therapy, actually, and it's a somatic therapy, and the

question is what else is true? And it's basically like when things are hard and rough and I'm struggling that I can focus on that, but I could also take my energy and focus on the things that are neutral and positive in my life. I can focus on what else is true? So T S. Madison today, the day after the premiere of your show, congratulations you, so proud of you. Thank you so much today for you, Maddie. What else is true? What is true is I've done things that they said that I would never be able

to do. What is true is I'm not bound by the shackles of my past. What is true is I'm here now and I am here by divine purpose. And what is true is I have impacted the world and I'll have a legacy whether tomorrow is the last day. And I thank God for it, and I thank you for let me be here on this podcast, but you grow on and chopping it up. So now I know that you would be a good fit on The Queen's Supreme Court Girl, because I because we started, I try

to be good. Because I try to be good, I try not to like say, I know we got we gotta dig into, but now be that we both will get in trouble. We know how to behave enough just to say enough. But people don't want to see you behave girl. They really want the mass, they really care. I love you so much. I'm so proud of so people can Well, you can catch im T. S. Madison on The Ties Madison Experience on we TV Thursday nights at ten pm nights. Are you still doing this Queen

Supreme Court on? Are you taking a break? You gotta watch We've got We've got a lot of production stuff going on. You gotta watch Laverne. You know, you might be proud of your of your sister at the end of the jam, already proud of my but a little bit more, already proud of me a little bit more. You just got to watch the sea. But make sure you guys are following me on Instagram at the real Tis Madison, and make sure you're following me on YouTube. T. S.

Madison Hinton. I'm just make sure you guys are watching the show. It's a good show. It's a breath of fresh air for reality television. It's not messy. It's a little shady because we've got some shade coming down to that. It's shady. There's reading, but it's fun and it's hilarious and it's really touching. It's really touching. Congratulations, it's a really good Thank you, Thank you, Lavern, and congratulation on this on this Magup podcast, and thank you so much

for having t s. Madison Hinton. Oh my god. I love that woman so much. I've been a fan for a really long time. And when I heard her show, What's Happening on we I thought, you know, I thought about how the world wants to pit, you know, trans people against each other, pit martinalized people against each other. And now that she has this platform, I suspected people might be making comparisons. And Maddie is Maddie and Laverne is Laverne, and there's nothing but love between us and

her stories, her humor, her testimony. She is a superstar. She's always been a superstar. And there are so many superstars out there in different communities who just have not had the platform yet to show it off. Madison built that platform for herself. She made it happen with a lot of determination and just star quality that can't be taught. I love Tis Madison and you can watch the TS Madison Experience Thursday nights on WI. You must thank you

for listening to The Laverne Cox Show. Please rate, review, subscribe, and share with everyone you know. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Laverne Cox and on Facebook at Laverne Cox. For read Until next time, stay in the love. The Laverne Cox Show is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.