S4 Ep10 - Representation Matters

Hello and welcome to a brand new season of The Late Discovered Club. Join me, Catherine Astaire, and my guest co-host Pete Waldenby, who will be joining me in some of the episodes throughout Season 4. Over 16 episodes, we'll be creating a space to give late-discovered autistic women, people, and marginalized genders a voice, helping to deconstruct stereotypes and give the next generation visibility. Need post-discovery support?

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Welcome to the show, Vicky. You are a 29-year-old gay autistic TV editor from Southampton here in the UK. And you got your official diagnosis at 28, so a couple of years ago now. And you wanted to come on the show, didn't you, to share your late discovery story, not only to continue to help inform and educate and raise awareness for neurodiversity in the TV industry in which you work.

but also to provide that safe environment and relatable voice for other neurodivergent people so that they don't feel the need to fear judgment or to suppress their support needs. So thank you for joining us today. I really want to start with your late discovery and explore that with you. What was the context for that? When did that journey begin? Thank you so much for having me.

so for me so my first experience i think for a lot of perhaps late diagnosed autistic people might be from sort of lockdown where we're obviously complete change of routine and the norm and everything just felt very different. And I found lockdown was definitely one of those points where me and my partner were seeing a lot more of each other at home. My partner and I were furloughed together.

And it was during the hot June 2020-ish, my partner purchased a blender to make some nice smoothies in the garden, make the most of the quite tricky time. I noticed that the sound of the blender was quite irritating and I felt like I had to leave the room. I just couldn't stand hearing it. I couldn't stand the sound of it and my partner sort of jokingly remarked that it's quite an autistic thing.

And for context, my partner does work with early years with young children. She has training in diagnosing autism and other sort of special needs within children. some concept of what autism is I knew absolutely nothing so when she said that it's quite an autistic thing to sort of be sensitive to sounds allow sounds I was immediately kind of on the back foot about it because I didn't think that was something

I didn't think I could be autistic. For me, the only concept I really had of autism was Sheldon from Big Bang Theory and I wasn't like that. I was intrigued. I was initially like, oh, I can't be, surely not. And then when I looked into it, I was like, wow, there's actually quite a lot of boxes that I tick actually for autism. And so I looked into it more.

decided sort of 2021 to apply for, again, an autistic assessment. And that came through a couple of years later, had the assessment, and they confirmed that ID was autistic.

And was that the first time, Vicky, that you'd noticed your reaction to a stressor in your environment and a noise stressor? Yeah, it was the first time that it was ever really noticed, I suppose. Yeah, because I know that I've always had an issue with things like... sirens or alarms and those sort of noises I'm always a bit oof I feel like I do have to sort of cover my ears and this is obviously both all the time of really loops and things like that it was always and I thought that was kind of

normal in that sense I thought you know a lot of people don't like loud noises so I never saw it as a particular trait of anything but it wasn't until obviously I looked into it and I was like a lot of people can relate to traits of autism but it's more the intensity And I realised that actually if I was exposed to such loud noises or whatever it is, I actually get quite distressed and I can sort of...

go into a meltdown i think that's what the differentiation was so i never really noticed that that sort of me having to leave the room because a blender's going off is not seen as like typical i suppose That was sort of the first time that I kind of acknowledged it and I have become a lot more self-aware of that and I'm more acknowledging, oh yeah, those sounds or those lights even as well, sort of light sensitivities. I sort of started to notice everything was a little bit different.

Yeah, and I suppose lockdown at a point in time in our history, lockdown was a time when maybe a lot of these day-to-day interactions that you have with your environment are not seen by others around you because you... you'd be at work you would be in the workplace wouldn't you exactly yeah i definitely found yeah you have sort of your hustle and bustle in the office you have certain lighting in the office you you don't

And yeah, you don't really question it, but it wasn't until sort of lockdown where all of that was taken away. Like at first, I quite enjoyed lockdown because I was away from people. That was also that side of it too, the socialisation part. was quite a big change and actually when it came back to going back into the office I actually almost struggled a bit trying to adjust to sort of having to socialize and

remembering social cues almost that sort of thing that was quite an eye-opening experience in covid and how did you find your partner being the one because often on this podcast if If you've listened to some of the episodes, our listeners who are listening now, people will talk about how autism came up for them. And often it might be in a therapy conversation.

but this is your partner saying to you, I think you might be autistic. What was your reaction to that? It was, yeah, it was really quite... It was quite surprising. I found on the one hand of it, there was this element of, oh, I should have...

I should have known that myself. Like, how does this other person know me more than I know me? There was a bit of a, wow, how is that the case? But actually, like I said, my partner is just more... has more education and more knowledge on the subject so she was able to pick up on those things and actually i'm quite lucky to have somebody like that to be able to to see these things and and you know not be afraid to also share that either so

It was, yeah, it was very quite eye-opening, but it obviously worked really well and pushed me to go to a sort of like an assessment and things as well. So that was very good. Did you encounter any challenges, any barriers when you went for that assessment? How did you find the assessment? Yeah, to be honest, I found the assessment pretty well. I was quite fortunate.

kind of went off without a hitch i it took sort of two three years uh on the waiting list to be able to go to the assessment but then once the assessment happened i was in there um for the two hours or so And I did kind of like the two practitioners were in there and they sort of left to talk and discuss things. And I was sitting there going, oh, I think I seemed too neurotypical. I don't think I seemed, I worried that I came across as too, I don't know.

I worried I was perhaps masking too much or saying what I wanted me to say and that sort of thing. But actually, as soon as they came in, they were like, yeah, you're definitely autistic. And at that point, that was quite... that was quite a relieving thing i think if i got the assessment done when i was first sort of questioning it i think i would have found that perhaps a bit more daunting than i did but actually after having those sort of two three years having that

time to research myself and understand myself better, I was actually kind of relieved to then have that official assessment. So that was really quite...

Yeah, the relief and just being able to take a deep breath. And where did that sit with you then? As you got that diagnosis and it validated what you... what you knew about yourself and what you discovered about yourself where where did that land how did you what did you do with that did you did you disclose to people around you did you self-disclose a work

Talk to us a little bit about that kind of journey. Of course, yeah. So after my assessment, initially I kind of kept it to myself mainly. Of course, I spoke to my partner about it and things. But I was a bit apprehensive about disclosing that to other people because I wasn't sure what the perception might be and things like that. But I found actually with work in particular, I mean, you're working typically.

nine to five five days a week it's quite a long time period of your life that you spend at work and i found it was important that if there were ways of improving improving that environment to help benefit me, then that's definitely worth doing. So I did pluck up the courage to email my boss.

sort of outlining the fact that I've had this autistic diagnosis. I would love to have a chat in person and discuss any potential, you know, reasonable adjustments that could be made, that sort of thing. So by this point, I'd done so much research and I had seen all these things about how...

what sort of reasonable adjustments can be made in the workplace and things. And I was keen to have that looked at. And, you know, I spent about sort of... 10-15 minutes writing the email and it took me about three hours to press send because I was just constantly oh I can't write that oh I should write this taking this bit out putting this back in it was quite there's something that's quite it's quite a vulnerable thing to sort of

disclose this part of yourself to somebody it's hugely memorable isn't it yeah so it was very it was quite a nerve-wracking thing but I'm so glad I did it because when I sent that email I had the best response from my boss and she said, oh, I'm so glad you've told me this. I'm quite honoured that you've told me this. I'd absolutely love to have this conversation and see how things go. So that worked out.

really well we had this meeting and initially even after that meeting I kind of said I wanted to be between just me and you and perhaps you know other key members of team But as things progressed, we kind of discussed actually it'd be quite good for these people to be involved and these people to be involved because essentially I work as a TV editor. So I work in the TV industry.

They're sort of the main few people you discuss with on a day-to-day basis. You talk with production managers, you talk with edit producers, executive producers, and of course you've got your colleagues' editors as well. And I think those particular people, those people that work with me... like directly on a more day-to-day basis probably would benefit more from this information about how to work with me than say somebody that I don't really talk to or don't really work with as closely.

My boss convinced me that actually it could be beneficial to have this disclosed to other members of the team. And maybe a good way of doing that is to create something called a Viki guide. Oh, I love that. A Viki guide. Yeah.

Well, guide to Viki. So the Viki guide was an idea where I could sort of write a document that outlines sort of what, so I'm autistic, these are some things that I... could perhaps struggle with these are things that i might ask from you i prefer this sort of lighting or whatever whatever the situation is i have this document i can present it to anybody that works with me just before i start production

and they can understand those adjustments and work accordingly, which I think worked really well. It went down really well with members of team. again, it sort of opened up that conversation about neurodiversity, which I think is also something that wasn't really talked about, at least in any way wasn't really talked about beforehand. So it provided that scope as well, which was brilliant. So a really brave thing to do.

Because we've heard from two guests so far in season four. We had Dr. Helen and Dominique who they both work in the TV industry and they were talking about disclosure and accommodations and safety. So it's really interesting to hear another perspective of somebody who works in that industry, but a different experience and how that's been received.

That email that you sent to your line manager, I mean, that's the kind of textbook response that you want, isn't it? It's not a hard thing to do, to be able to say, thank you for sending me that. I really want to find out more. How can we support you? It's not difficult at all. It really isn't. I couldn't have asked for a better response, to be honest with you. I was obviously dreading thinking the worst, but actually she handled it brilliantly and still does to this day.

Yeah. And what would you say are some of the more challenging aspects? You talked about disclosure there. What are some of the other challenging aspects do you think about your late discovery? i think just from like a general perspective i find it's it's hard trying to under like

especially when you're in your late 20s, you think you've got your life sussed out, you think you know yourself, you think, you know, I've got this plan of what my life should go like. And when you get a diagnosis, it almost... turns it on its head a little bit that actually I didn't quite know myself as well as I thought I did. And initially, it's quite easy to see that as such a negative thing. Oh, I should have known this, I should have done this, or I've missed out on this.

I've put myself through these situations, not realising this. It's quite a lot of that almost, you're almost sort of grieving that side of yourself from when you were younger. Would you say, I mean, you were what? nearly three years, aren't you, since your diagnosis. And we talk to people at all different stages in their late discovery on this podcast. Where would you say that you're at today then?

Do you still feel like you're in the trenches of grief? That's a really great question. I've found a way, I think, of digging myself out of that trench, but I'm not fully out of it yet, if that makes sense. I think I'm becoming more comfortable with the fact that obviously... There were years where I wasn't putting myself first and I have those sort of grievances, but I'm also looking forward ahead and noticing how great my life can be now. I have those in place.

And I'm already seeing in those sort of two, three years since the official assessment, how far I've come like personally from a mental health perspective, but also from like a work perspective, you know, and that sort of thing. from being able to make those adjustments in my life. So yeah, there's obviously still a part of it. And I think things like therapy and things like that will help with that, definitely.

But yeah, I definitely think there is like an upward trajectory, isn't there, of coming out of the trenches that you're not quite out of yet. And that sounds, just hearing you talk there, it sounds, what you're saying is having this knowledge about myself and understanding myself has had, you know, it's having a... a much positive impact on my mental health. And I just wonder how has being autistic and not knowing that you're autistic...

How has that impacted your health, your physical health, your mental health, your wellbeing over the years? And when you look back? Yeah, I think, I mean, yeah, as a...

Like I definitely know as a sort of teenager or sort of in school years, I remember, like obviously I'm picking a lot of this now with retrospect, but how much I was masking so much in school in particular, this pressure to... have these friends and so I would pretend I was into all these cool things to make friends and you know trying to learn all the right social cues and and and

And becoming quite a people pleaser as well was quite a tricky thing when I was younger. It was a lot of, like, I don't want to be seen as different or, you know. been seen as wrong in any way for disagreeing with somebody so I will always agree and that even in sort of recent years I still find myself doing that it's very difficult to break those those cycles and I but

At the same time, although I was striving to make these friends, I also craved having my own time as well. I'm an only child, so I'm quite used to being on my own in that respect anyway. I've got a fairly small-ish family. I also craved that time and I kind of just thought, is it because I'm lazy and I don't want to have friends? What's wrong? But actually, I'm realizing now.

it's also because I'd put myself in so many situations that drain me and then I need that sort of rest time afterwards and so I sort of craved.

that element of it i needed that sort of rest time i never realized that was what that was i thought it was just me being lazy so i would sort of critique myself for that i should be going out more and doing all these things and actually that's not what i need and that's not what I want even that's just what I think I need and want yeah and all these labels that we give ourselves that aren't autistic you know you just said they're lazy I should be doing this

It's because I'm lazy. It's because of this. And when we don't have that knowledge or understanding about ourselves, then other labels fill that place, don't they, in that space? Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. I've always been quite heavily critical of myself because I've always strived to be like everybody else.

yeah i always felt completely different to everybody else and i couldn't quite understand why so there was that whole element of yeah it must be because i'm lazy it must be because whatever it is and obviously a lot of that is astounding the fact that i'm autistic and actually I just don't have the same interests or I...

I get burnt out quicker or, you know, that sort of thing. And having to sort of rewire that thinking for it to not be such a negative thing on yourself and be like, well, actually, it's just because of this and that's okay. It takes years to sort of think. You get to a point where you feel comfortable saying that about yourself. Yeah. And the danger with the lazy label is that it makes you try harder. It makes you push on through. It makes you keep going.

when actually all the other signs and maybe your body is showing you in lots of different ways that it cannot do this. It cannot keep doing this. Absolutely. What do you recognize? What would you say? And you talked about your Viki guide. I want to try and unpick some of that with you because you've talked about that being something that you can share with people and it talks about your strengths and your struggles.

the way that you uh support yourself and the way that you need other people to support you so what are some of those things that you recognize about yourself not even just in the workplace but you know you as Vicky your Vicky guide what are some of the strengths that you now recognize as being strengths that you need to nurture and how are you nurturing them and then what are the things that you

are struggling with and how are you supporting those struggles? Yeah, so some of the strengths I try to nurture is my attention to detail is a big big part of that, I think, both in work and just in general life. I feel like, particularly with work, like I said, as an editor, I'm looking at the really attention to detail, the very small, minor bits, the sound effects, the grade, the little...

bits and pieces that I think will make the whole production the best. I'm very good at focusing on those particular bits, sort of the bottom-up thinking as it were, and I think that's a wonderful thing to have. both from a work perspective and just in general life, noticing those details.

I think I'm quite a good communicator. I'm quite open and honest as well. I think those are qualities that are really quite important and quite crucial. I know for a lot of my youth, as I've touched upon, I would sort of just... ignore my own opinions and just focus on what everyone else wanted but actually being open and honest is such a valuable thing and it might come across as rude or blunt or whatever but actually I think it's wonderful to have that unfiltered honesty.

if things aren't working. And that's something that people have praised me for before, for being open and honest. And I think it's important that... we remind ourselves of that i think it's quite easy to again think of it as being off you're honest it hurts people's feelings or whatever it's just the way the way you say i think is is the difference um and understanding that

That's the difference there. Like, it's not rude, to be honest. It's the way you deliver it that can be rude. And some of the challenges I sort of touched upon again, I've spoken about sort of sensory issues as well. And I think... things like my preference for written communication I struggle with sort of having verbal instructions which can be quite frustrating for my partner if she's told me for the 15th time to do something and I'm like oh

I didn't process what you were saying, I'm so sorry. But it's really good to have written down communication or having, if it is verbal, having it quite.

direct and clear there's no sort of waffle with it just sort of this is what I need from you and and that's that I think that's been a reasonable adjustment from in the workplace at least and definitely in in relationships as well i think people understand when i also ask a lot of questions it's not because i don't pay attention it's because i'm wanting to seek that clarity um i do say i'm sorry i might ask a bunch of questions for something that seems really obvious but

This is how it is. And people have received that very well. And that's been a great benefit. I've definitely seen a difference having that sort of document and talking about autism and things has definitely helped with that.

And what do you think, or do you think there have been particular points then in your life when maybe you've struggled more? Can you, when you look back, certainly going through school... through adolescence, through adulthood, young adulthood. Have there been particular points in your life where you've struggled more? I would say...

I think school life was definitely quite tricky in that sense because, like I said, the social aspect of all the friends and all of that. And then there was also, I think, I found myself struggling. when it came to that perfectionism is quite a big thing. So I attribute my attention to detail with also being a bit of a perfectionist. I like everything to be done.

a great way. And so I found when it comes to exams and things, if I wasn't getting 100% on tests, I would find that quite difficult to comprehend and I would be quite hard on myself because of that. And especially I noticed in subjects that were like For example, English literature I struggled with. I love reading books and I love that concept of it, but when it came to the exams, there was a lot of, if you can explain yourself well.

then you get the marks. There's no direct sort of yes or no answer like you would on say a maths or science paper. And I found that those sort of subjects I struggled the most with, the ones where I have to sort of really explain my points and get my points across. and see outside the box on things and how things can symbolise different things. It's very tricky. I found those subjects very difficult, although I enjoyed them. I found them very hard in terms of the exams and stuff.

And because of that, again, that perfectionism, I found it hard through school to, you know, feel like I was a good student. I felt like I was like a lot of teachers who said I was great, but just didn't ask enough questions. And that's because I was terrified of giving the wrong answer and, you know, all that sort of stuff. And your career as a TV editor, how, looking back now...

Can you see why you went down that path of a career, knowing what you know about yourself now? I think so. I think I do. I jokingly say that being an editor is perhaps one of the more antisocial roles in telly because, you know, you're not going out on locations every day. You're not chatting to all these different contributors and people. But there is...

So in that aspect, I do quite like the routine of being the editor where you are. You go to your desk, you're editing something, and then you come home and again. That sort of day-to-day life is relatively similar. And I guess there's some boundaries around that, isn't there? Because if you're editing at your desk and you need to focus and concentrate and you need maybe headphones on to listen to what you're doing, you've created.

an environment there haven't you for yourself to be able to have that very focused attention to detail block out all the people and the noise and everything else and then you get to go home

Exactly. That's exactly it. When I was at university, I did media production at university, and I had a go at doing a bunch of other roles. I did initially think perhaps directing, being a producer or director, would be more interesting for me, but actually I found... that whole element of it was quite intense and quite unpredictable.

And I don't do well, particularly with very unpredictable things. And I felt like at least with an editor role, I know sort of what's expected of me and what's in my remit. And as you say, the physical environment where I've got the noise cancelling headphones and I've got my set desk. is sort of perfect for me in that aspect so yeah so even before you had this knowledge about knowing that you're autistic you were already making adaptations in your environment you were already

trying to create the kind of home that you need within yourself to be able to thrive. Absolutely, yeah. I definitely agree with that. And are there any other things that you have done, do you think? Any other...

adaptations that you've made now that you have this knowledge obviously you you were making those adjustments and adaptations without this knowledge what has this knowledge enabled you to do in in terms of some of more of the day-to-day things in your life What are some of the things that have helped you? So one of the biggest things I did was invest in a pair of loops. Loops have been an absolute game changer for me. I don't really leave the house without them. I go into any sort of...

restaurants or public transport even, shopping malls, I always have a pair of loops with me. So instead of letting, instead of making myself think I have to sort of put up with the noise like everyone else would do, quote unquote. I'm investing in the pair of loops and I'm putting them in and I have felt a lot less overwhelmed in those sort of big public areas.

And even when it comes to things like socializing, I've got to a point where I'm very comfortable with the friends I do have and I do feel very open and honest with them. But if they want to meet up with me after work and I'm feeling quite exhausted, I'm more comfortable saying no.

When it comes to making social events with friends and things, I'm more comfortable saying no and I'm more comfortable to sort of book in almost a day or half a day where I need to rest without sort of any socialization at all. So I've got that rest, I think is really important as well. Yeah, I think those were some of the main ones I've been able to do. And the loops, they really help, don't they?

just dialing down the noise another level and like you say being able to immerse yourself in the world and sit on public transport or be in an office or being a in a shop or wherever you are And it's something that you have, you know, a little bit of control over then, don't you, of dialing down some of that noise. Talking about environments, what do you recognize now?

that you absolutely need from your environment to enable you to thrive both at home and at work or if you're going on holiday or wherever you are? What's really important to you in your environment? So for me, the biggest thing, I think one of the biggest things for me in my environment would be lighting is a very big thing. As an editor, I'm looking at computer screens all the time.

If I can get as little light into those poor eyeballs as I can, then I will. So I do like having just like a little lamp in those environments. I hate having the big light on. It gives me instant headaches and just makes me quite irritable, to be honest, if I have the big light on for too long. So I like to have, at home and in the office, I live off lamps. I don't ever have the big light on.

And having just quiet, quiet areas. So my office is like a separate little room attached to the editor's room. So I'm kind of in a slightly, it's less sort of foot traffic through the room, if that makes sense. I have a slightly more secluded space where I can. It is a bit quieter, there's less people walking by. Yeah, I find those are the areas I really thrive in, where I don't have to worry about so much.

sensory overload from noise or light that those tend to be the strongest areas for me and they make a difference don't they day to day because If you're able to go to work and know that you have some level of control over the sensory input that you're experiencing with your environment, you're much less likely then to... hit burnout and experience burnout and you're much more likely to be able to stay in employment and they're not they're not hard things are they for

employers. They're not hard things for workplaces to do and to support with. What about your things that bring you joy? What are the things that you are really passionate about?

Is this from like a hobby perspective? Any perspective. I mean, we talk about interest, don't we? And there's really specific interests that... we have when we're autistic and sometimes they are lifelong interests sometimes they are seasons aren't they that we we kind of dip into and dip out of um what are the things that

bring you joy in your day-to-day life. So one of my biggest special interests is with Lego. I love building Lego sets. It's never been a childhood thing which I always think is quite interesting a lot of special interests evolve from sort of childhood and continue through and actually for me I never really had that as a kid and I my earliest sort of interest was

the sort of Thomas the Tank Engine and things. I really enjoyed playing with trains and then it evolved to teddies and it would be a lot of collecting. I liked having those collections of stuff so I would collect these. the Beanie Babies, and then it went to Syrvanian families. And it kind of just, as I, throughout the years, I just evolved into collecting different things. And now for me, it's Lego. I collect Lego sets, which my poor bank account probably wishes is still teddy bears.

um but i it brings me a lot of joy they're very therapeutic sets to build it's just a very you know sort of structured thing to do you know what's expected if you've got all your pieces you can just build and make thing and so I do enjoy that a lot and I also do enjoy I've been getting back into reading as a kid I enjoyed reading

And then sort of as life gets busier, it's sort of harder sometimes to make the time to read a good book. But I have been making more time recently to sort of wind down in the evenings with a nice book and get into that. I've been reading a lot of sort of... both fiction and non-fiction so I enjoy sort of learning about history and science-y books but I also quite like and obviously of course autism books as well I've been reading a lot of those

I also enjoy watching a lot of telly. Obviously, I make telly, it makes sense that I watch telly, and a lot of telly I do watch, I try and stick for more lighthearted things, because I do a lot of true crime on day to day, so I like to watch stuff that's a bit less. A bit less sad. So I like to watch a lot of Marvel TV shows and films. I'm a big Marvel fan. I'm also a massive Doctor Who fan as well. Love Doctor Who. So I've been watching the new season of that.

and getting into that again. So yeah, there's quite a few little interests, which I think, you know, stem from childhood. And then as you get a bit older, you lose that touch. And actually, again, since sort of having the diagnosis and... acknowledging being autistic, I have tried to sort of rekindle those loves and those interests. And sort of less shamefully, I suppose, I think, at first, a lot of people might think.

I was worried about how people would think about me liking Lego, thinking Lego was more of a kid's thing, but it really is not at all. It really isn't. There's such a big adult community of Lego fans out there. So I'm becoming a lot more... comfortable and happy with the interests I have and not trying to hide that from people as well.

And I'm sure there'll be many people listening who will share your interest in Lego. What do you like building, Vicky? What are the things that you like to build in Lego? I like building, so like I say, I'm a big Marvel fan, so I have all of the helmets and the gloves, the little display sets. I also quite like building some of the botanical sets as well, sort of the flower ones, because they're the ones I can get away with having in the living room.

My partner prefers that all my Lego is in my little Lego space, but actually I've managed to sneak some Lego in the house, which is also very nice. So I like building some of the Lego flowers. I like building the Marvel sets. and yeah just some of the cool my favorite set of built actually is a big pac-man set it's like the mini arcade machine of the pac-man which i which was i didn't expect that to be my favorite set but it is definitely my favorite set it's

Brilliant. I would highly recommend. Yeah. If Pete was here, Pete can't be with us today, but if Pete was here because he's traveling to Ireland to speak at a conference, but if he could be here, he would be sharing your passion of Lego. I really struggle with Lego. My daughter loves Lego, but I really struggle with Lego because I really struggle with instructions. So anything that has anything more than one or two things that I need to do.

My mind just shuts off and it becomes too hard to do. So I just cannot do it. My mind won't go there. It will not follow somebody else's instructions. I have to create my own instructions. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. Because I suppose, if you know those sort of boxes you get of just random bricks and you can build what you want, would you say that's probably better for you rather than having the sets with the instructions?

yeah but i would also say i'd need something to model it on so my mind wouldn't just be able to create something i'd need to see something and think right how am i going to build that in my own way rather than Because it just feels like too many demands when, you know, when I open a book of... of lego instructions and i think actually no i don't want to follow this no no part of me wants to follow this let me just do it my own way but that applies to

anything with instructions in life I just really really struggle with it I often describe it's like I just hit a brick wall in my head my I just can't do it So I love to watch other people follow instructions and get so much joy from creating something that they have followed and something that, you know, is instructional. And we're all different, aren't we? We're all different. Absolutely. Yeah. We are very different. And actually, we might touch upon this a bit later, but as a new...

neurodiversity champion at my workplace now. I've officially become recently a neurodiversity champion. And we have like a mini neurodiversity team within the workplace. And one of the events we had, we did like a little Lego lunchtime. So when people came down for a company day, we'd have boxes of Lego bricks available for anyone to build Lego out from. And I'm actually kind of the opposite. I struggle with having Lego bricks.

and not having instructions, because I'm just like, I don't know what I'm meant to do with this, how much more of this to do. So I actually had, for the best of both worlds, you could have these bricks and build whatever you wanted from them, or there is an app that you can scan bricks.

And it will tell you what you can build and how you can build it out of those bricks. And I think it's brilliant, a brilliant thing to be able to do. So I sort of incorporated that into the Lego lunchtime as well, because it's this excuse to get Lego in the workplace, to be honest.

Like me building Lego to get paid to build Lego. And it's creativity, isn't it? In lots of different ways. And you talked about reading there. And I think, well, I would rather write my own book than read a book. You know, I'd rather create. something than be given something to to consume um yeah so lots of joys there lots of joys lots of passions that you've talked about

What about if you were able to go back in time to a younger version of you and give yourself a compassionate message? What would you want to say to yourself? That's a great question. I think I would say to myself, I would say don't be afraid to be you. You are not. broken there is nothing wrong with you you are just living in a world that's not built for you yet and you can still enjoy the things you enjoy and you can still have

days where you're not socializing and that is okay. You don't have to fit this box that you think you have to fit into. Yeah, I think I'll go for that. that's quite a short answer but but a powerful one isn't it to be able to to say that to a younger version of yourself and what do you think needs to

change for the late discovered community? What would you want to see change? I think there's been a lot more discussions about neurodiversity now and I'm really happy. that we are talking about it more. We're having, obviously, University Celebration Week last month. We're having more of those conversations and I just think a lot of workplaces could start.

being more inclusive in that space and I think we're in a great position where we are talking more about neurodiversity and we're having neurodiversity celebration weeks, we're having sort of, you know, awareness days and months. But I think in particular, workplaces could be doing more. I think workplaces could be making more reasonable adjustments to make environments work for.

all people not just neurodivergent people but also neurotypical and I think a lot of adjustments are very reasonable and very minor but can make a big difference to people in that workplace and I think there is still a lot to be done in in terms of workplaces being that making that those accommodations um you know when i did the neurodiversity

champion course there's a lot of information to unpick in there but actually it all seemed very very minor and actually when we had conversations with my boss about it they were very engaged to to do those changes you know sort of making those spaces more applicable so having you know having environments that are more inclusive for neurodivergent and neurotypical people whether that means having environments with dimmer lighting, brighter lighting, having quiet rooms, having normal rooms.

whether or not we need hot desking, if hot desking is an issue, you know, having that considered approach into how to prepare your work office environment for all people I think is still very much needed. in a lot of industries. Yeah. And your role then as neurodiversity champion in your organization, what is that involving? What are you doing in your organization to really champion?

So we are, we like to act as almost like a middleman between employees and the employers or the managers, top people. for people to be able to come to us, email us of any particular requests or any issues they're struggling with and we will liaise and speak with the managers and see what can be done to help accommodate those people. So obviously that stemmed initially.

from myself and other neurodivergent people, we've come forward individually, but now we're providing that less scary, more familiar face. body to be able to make those adjustments if you are a bit anxious about going straight to the bosses about what changes can be done. We want to sort of help people within that come up with those reasonable adjustments because especially a lot of people don't even know they are.

neurodiversion to autistic, they won't even know what needs they have. If we can talk with bosses and get those in place beforehand, then... you'll be benefiting without even realising you're benefiting from it, if that makes sense. Yeah, and it creates another layer of, well, not another layer, it creates a layer of safety, doesn't it? Of psychological safety.

in your workplace of knowing that there is a place that you can go to which is led by neurodivergent people themselves who you can talk to. and explore what self-disclosure might look like and how you write your own individual guide about the things that you struggle with and strengths and the support needs that you might have.

So one of the things we've also introduced as newer diversity champions are the Working Well With Me documents, which stems from the Viki guide. Obviously, the Viki guide is about Viki, but to make a document that's more broad that anyone can sort of fill out for themselves, whether they're... autistic or neurodivergent or neurotypical, anyone can fill these documents out and it will just outline the hours you work, how best to support you, how to know how you're struggling.

Those sort of questions, anyone can fill them out and we are trying to really roll those out and make them almost a requirement of some description for any production so that everyone on the team knows how best to work with everybody.

So that's been a great, that's been quite beneficial thing as well. A lot of people have flagged. And also we're talking about how to make things like call sheets and those sort of documents more accessible as well. Because, you know, sometimes call sheets can be quite... convoluted and quite full and lots of information, how to make those more clear and concise for autistic or dyslexic people. So very specific things to your...

industry into the way that you work and looking at the ways that you communicate and how you can better communicate as an organization so that you are more inclusive in what you're doing. Final two questions.

And this one is a question I've been asking to all the guests in season four. And this is a myth or a stereotype that you'd like to undermine. I know there's lots of them, but one of them. So one of the myths and stereotypes I'd like to sort of write off is that there's some reason, I don't know where it's come from, this idea that autistic people aren't particularly empathetic or don't really understand how other people feel.

I think I know for me I'm a big I'm a very empathetic person I feel like I I know how to support my friends and family and people I care about more than myself a lot of the time like it's I think I don't know where that stereotype has come from but we are definitely very empathetic people and I think on a more light-hearted note I suppose a more

Another trivial stereotype I like to bash is that I'm awful at maths. I don't know where that stereotype's come from as well, the idea that autistic people are great at maths. I'm not great at maths. Yeah, there is that idea, isn't there? It goes back to the Sheldon theory, doesn't it, of having that kind of mind. And yeah, there's lots of people. I'm definitely team words over team numbers.

So, yeah, they're really good ones to highlight, aren't they? And just that there's lots of difference in each and every one of us. Final question. Who inspires you? Do you have an autistic role model? So autistic role models for me, I can't name specific celebrities or characters in a TV show, but I think just generally, this might be quite niche, but the people that you see on the neurodiversity.

panels people that do these sort of things people do these podcasts people that do those panels i think are the most inspiring and empowering because they have chosen to speak out in their industries and I might have never felt empowered enough to speak up in front of my entire team at work and push for an inclusive environment had I not seen how it was done, how to do it. And I think those people are the ones that inspire me every day, sort of your everyday.

General people, I think, are great role models for me, seeing those people thriving in their environments, workplaces and things. Yeah, that's a really good point. And certainly... all of the guests who have come on this podcast so far, without their stories, you wouldn't be here today sharing your story because it takes... hearing somebody else's story doesn't it to be able to feel that you can then have a space to share your story so I think we'll close this episode today with gratitude

And thanks and appreciation to all the people who have come before you, Vicky, on this podcast. And now you're included in the people, in all the people who have been on here so far. bravely and courageously shared their story of late discovery so it's been a real pleasure to talk to you thank you for coming on and sharing your story yes thank you too thank you so much for having me you're welcome