Episode 4 - This is who I am

Andrea's neurodivergence discovery came about through the identification of it in her eldest son, who has very much helped her to get insight into the magical autistic mind. And she knew if she wanted him to grow up not hiding who he truly is, or feeling ashamed of his difference. She needed to do the work on herself too.

And during her time at ASOS, she helped the business grow a team of a hundred to eight hundred over four years, focusing on things that developed inspirational leadership that were engaging and motivation. And whilst on paper this all sounds very fabulous and successful, she experienced many bouts of burnout in this time, always wondering why she wasn't able to manage her stress.

And when Andrea left this career in twenty eleven, she was severely burnt out and devoid of any belief in herself at all. Having a lifelong curiosity about identity and understanding how humans work, Andrea has accidentally designed a life that works with her autistic strengths and needs. Yn ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud. Ac yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r

And writing is not only a joy for Andrea, it helps her to make sense of her thoughts and her feelings. And it was a total lifeline for her in getting from awareness to acceptance of her own authority. Andrea is in the final stages of writing a book, This Is Who I Am, A Guide to Thriving with Late Life Autism Discovery, which will be published by Jessica Kinsley Publishing later on in twenty twenty. And Andrea lives in lively and created Brighton with her family, two sons and husband.

So I really want to start with your self-discovery, Angia. So you were forty-five when you discovered your autism. You described it just as the world was turning on a pandemic axis. But what was the trigger or turning point for you that made you explore your autism?

And I was quite I was quite shocked because I didn't know that that was happening for him. I think I'd I'd really chosen not to see and understand that. and witnessing his distress and seeing how challenging it was for him to really wanting to join in and take part.

um, you know, it's a quiz night and he had these ear defenders on and I was sort of saying, Well, how is he gonna hear? How is he gonna join in? But I very quickly could see actually this is that's not even a consideration for him just being in this environment is is so overwhelming for him. And it was at that point that I just thought, you have been trying to protect this beautiful boy from standing out and being different and that's not really that's not helpful for him. Actually it's harmful.

Rydyn ni'n ymwneud â'r hynny'n ymwneud â'r hynny'n ymwneud â'r hynny'n ymwneud â'r hynny'n ymwneud â'r hynny'n ymwneud â'r hyn. And I was just I was so frightened about autism, you know, from really sort of back in the early part of twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, I just didn't know what it was and I was just hearing all these horror stories about it being caused by the inoculations and autistic children not being demonstrative in their love.

And I was so frightened of that that I just shut it out. And it really took that one incident for me to finally realise like wow this.

you have to do something to to help and to understand. And then from that point the next day I I um go into yoga with a another friend, um who has an autistic child, and I talked to her about it, and I really remember her saying to me, It's so comforting for your child to have um an understanding of their difference, to have a language around it, to be able to know that there's nothing wrong with them.

that it's it's just that they experience the world differently. And really from that point of the quiz night onwards, you know, I've fully immersed myself into understanding what autism is. Because having witnessed the stress that he was experiencing, it was a a route in to say, Wow, that was really stressful like

what was that like for you? Um and he and he a he actually asked us to go and get some help for him to understand his brain,'cause his brain was really tired. You know, he did this amazing drawing for us. He he um I you know, um, like most artists, I have a thirst for knowledge and information. And I just totally went into this whole rabbit hole of

as soon as, you know, I started to look at that and and and read some some things about how it presents in women, the minute I read it, I my whole world just slowed down. Like I I just had this total like, oh that is me, that that this is me, this is my experience of life and I just didn't ign I just didn't know it existed. I just didn't know.

anything about it. So yeah, my discovery, you know, was quite fast in a sense. It I'd really d pushed it away. I didn't want to know anything about it. But as soon as I let it in,

the schooling timetable together and let's have a family meeting. I got the flip chart out and I did all the kind of ridiculous like this is what our week is going to look like and it looked nothing like that at all. So once I'd kind of settled into the groove of like, we just have to surrender to this, it is quite peaceful and our days. there's lots of quiet time and you know, the kids are off reading or doing stuff and and so I had time. I I didn't have to be anywhere. I didn't have to

go out and go to work or do anything for those first few weeks. So I had a lot of time to read. it I had that real conflict of wanting to know more about it, but really not wanting to know more about it. It it brought sort of both fear and comfort for me, fear of what I was going to uncover when I started to look deeper into it.

But comfort that like, oh my goodness, this you know, this is actually a thing. This is like There's a whole world of of other people experiencing the same things that I've experienced and God that's that's really comforting to know that. So um I actually I actually really enjoyed the quietness of lockdown and

I loved going into the garden and I loved bird song and we were all together, our family. We we just had each other so Mae'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw.

And actually throughout this time as I was discovering it and reading it, I had just a really beautiful exchange with another mum in the community and I I sort of confessed to her like You know, I'm I'm I'm looking at if I'm autistic and and she just sent me the most wonderful message saying, Oh Oh, that's so exciting and wonderful and congratulations. So I I took a lot of comfort actually from my very small community and my very close interaction with friends that I probably wouldn't have had.

So you went into L.

I really enjoy writing, so a lot of my time was taken up with coaching and writing a lot about blogs and articles and lots of different things. Rydw i wedi bod yn creu ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud.

ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i. Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i. Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i. thing for me in sort of protecting my energy.

Ond, os ydych chi'n gwybod yn y business ac yn y carrer sy'n ydych chi'n ei wneud, ydych chi'n ei wneud 10 ydych chi'n ei wneud. Ydych chi'n ei wneud 10 ydych chi'n ei wneud, ydych chi, ASOS? described creating cultures for innovation and individuality to thrive. It's very hard, isn't it, to look back in in hindsight. But if you were still in that environment, if you were still having to go to work, still having to commute.

Your experience would be different? Do you think how how do you think you'd navigate self-disclosure in the workplace? Because that's one of the things that in most of the women that I've spoken to who are who haven't created a world where they're self-employed to have that. control or that um autonomy over the working environment.

Self-disclosure is something that comes up time and time again of not feeling comfortable d despite however many policies or things or cultures that organizations have, it's something that is actually a really hard thing to do to self-disclose.

stressed. I was really always really stressed out. And, you know, I had feedback throughout the sort of nineties and noughties of you know, you need to learn to manage your stress, you need to not show your emotions so much. Um, so you know, I'd been masking a lot before that anyway, but certainly to survive and thrive and progress professionally.

you know it was part of the remit you you have to conform you have to withhold how you're really feeling you have to cover up your stress Mae'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n mynd. I really wanted to, before working at ASOS, I worked at Topshop.

I was given some really amazing opportunities to create innovative cultures and to really improve motivation and make it a really engaging environment. I was trusted to to put a lot of things in place that before they would have been like, you know, having all these away days where we might have been doing um lots of different activities around voice. We we did um

You know, those things were so stressful because you cannot read. I I couldn't read what was going on. You know, the uh it's quite can be quite Machiavellian environments, actually boardrooms. I left in 2011 and I was really quite severely burnt out, and it took me quite a few years to get over it. Um, I just didn't want to go back into that environment. I I left carrying a story of failure.

for a really long time and I really felt like I'd failed to succeed in those environments because I didn't fit and I couldn't do what they needed of me. So um I totally get how challenging it would be for many women to disclose because

you know, it's just not understood well enough in organisations, in institutions, in society at large and Um, so you know, the onus is then on the individual to educate and to deal with a lot of prejudice alone and in isolation and it must be so challenging for for lots of people in those environments. And my contribution to that is um I've sort of hosted panels and I've done some talks.

um around recruiting and removing the barriers for neurodiversity because there's so many amazing talents that we have you know our ability to um create systems to see problems, to cut through it all, to come up with novel and innovative ways to solve things and to want to make it better. ac yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n.

Whilst I was in those environments, I was probably trying to do my bit to to create environments, individuality, to thrive, not really realising why. do my bit by using my experience in culture and recruitment and all those things to speak out when I can to change perceptions. But um

What do you recognize then as some of the struggles that you have or you did have working in that environment? So you were talking about the boardroom and um, you know, the environment and the people that you were working with. But what what have or what do you struggle with? What would you say are are are the things that you struggle with the most?

Rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n

Um, but when I was really exhausted and tired, all that sort of small talk and dressing it up just became harder and harder. So I'd often be penalised for my directness or you know if I was really direct with somebody quite senior, you know, they'd find a way to, you know, get me back. I think the direct communication could be a challenge. I think my ability to manage my stress. Often, I probably was having meltdowns when I was really stressed.

yna, yna, yna, yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna yna Um, I'd be ill every sort of three to six months. I'd just be like wiped out with a virus or something. So it was affecting me physically. Yeah, I mean those were really the the main things. And I think probably in the group dynamic situation where I wasn't able to I could

see the eye exchanges. I knew that, you know, people were exchanging looks about either what I was saying or doing, but I couldn't understand what those looks were or I, you know, couldn't second guess.

I knew I was doing something that they weren't happy about, but I it you know, to be able to really identify what it was. So I think the sort of group dynamics and the politics and understanding what's going on behind And you know, when people say they're going to do something and they don't do it, you know, they'll say like, Yeah, this is what we're gonna go and do and then th th they'd take a different course or they'd then would start

ymwneud â unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw ymwneud â'r unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw

um, you know, emotional overspills where it's just tears, tsunamis of tears. Um, but it is different for everybody. So what what does it feel like for you?

But it feels so terrible afterwards, after you've had this explosion, you just sort of feel like utterly defeated. Oh, I'm just so awful. Uh it's really awful what's just happened and you just just feel you know, I'd never be violent or I'd never but I might say some really hurtful things.

Um, I just really want the overwhelm to stop. Um, so it's a it's a really horrible, uncomfortable process and I can't really think of many incidents in the work environment where I would have been that explosive. And so might react to something in quite a strong way that I wouldn't normally do. So I suppose publicly that's what it looks like, a very strong reaction that you try to just withdraw from the environment as soon as you can.

privately, it can it can just feel like your whole world is collapsing and you just can't cope anymore and then You get to a point where the tears have sort of you've cried it all out and you just you just feel dreadful. You just feel like got sort of bewildered and why can't I cope? Why does this happen? Um and yeah, you know, I've I've been to some quite dark places where

Um, I've just felt like there's something wrong with me or what's wrong with me. Um, so it's it's a really unpleasant feeling.

fundamentally is the foundation of your work, isn't it? Because you describe creating environments for neurodiversity to thrive. That's where your work as a coach, as a writer, as an activist aims to help people. So for yourself then in your own context from a personal perspective. What have or what are you doing to create that environment for yourself to enable you to thrive? Because you've just made a connection there, haven't you? A link between

Sort of like a scene in my head. So I use writing a lot to make sense of my feelings and thoughts I had about my past and previous experiences. Um and as a coach. I've got loads of tools. So I use a lot of the tools that I use with my clients because a lot of the work I do with clients is about self-acceptance. I always had a lot in my environment to help me, so it was just about tapping into that. Writing has really helped me to make sense of it. As I went through that process of awareness, I

I always feel that you need to process your own pain, your own rawness, before you're ready to share it with the world. And I really still believe that. I had did a lot of work for quite a lot of that time. You know, I might have been sharing a message with one or two people that I instinctively knew. I really trust you, I feel safe with you.

and I had really positive responses, but as I i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd i ddodd Rydyn ni'n gallu bod yn bwysig. Rydyn ni'n gallu bod yn bwysig. Rydyn ni'n gallu bod yn bwysig yn bwysig.

he just presents to the world in a way that's natural to him. He doesn't mask it. But, you know, I had a lot of really questioning my thinking, like, you know, that classic, you don't look autistic, you don't seem autistic, you don't Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd

people think they're being helpful because probably as I was going along my journey, I wasn't that confident in my in disclosing it. And so they were probably picking up on a lot of those things and trying to comfort me or reassure me that there was nothing wrong with me. But y you have to have some quite difficult discussions as you go through it. And I chose to go down the diagnosis route for myself because

I did go through a sort of quite a bit of time where I was like, Am I imagining this? Am I totally like making this up like and I d you know, because uh throughout life I have sort of been messaged that, you know, I'm difficult or um overly dramatic, overly sensitive, you know, making something out of nothing. So I did I I did just c keep looping back and thinking, God, am I going mad? Am I, you know, am I making this up?

Um and I think because I was forty five, you know, I'd I'd I'd managed to navigate life this far. Why open it up and look at it? But I really knew that if I want and I do want both my kids to grow up without feeling ashamed of their difference, of any difference that they might have, I want them to feel natural.

just to be who they are in the world, I knew I had to do that work on myself. Because when you are trying to push difference away from a child who's very clearly is different and that's harmful. I I needed to do that work to work through the shame I felt in my own difference, so I didn't pass that on to him. So I I wanted to go through a diagnosis um process. And when you do that, you have to talk to your family. You you have to um

you know, even at forty five, talk about w how did you develop as a child? So, you know, I had to have conversations with my family about it and perhaps their generation are not so willing to to look at these things. And I do understand why that might be, because I think, you know, any kind of mental illness or difference. was in you were institutionalized, you were locked up. You know, there was it it it was it was really dangerous when they grew up. And so, um

you know, that sort of prejudice, but I'm also very aware of that ancestral pass on and, you know, what you you take from the generation before. I'm not sure I'm answering your question here, Catherine, about how I adapted my environment, but um you've ad

that difference for your children. Um, but obviously you didn't have that growing up because you didn't know we were in a different time. Everything that you've just explained there. Felly, os ydych chi'n mynd i'r ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n ymwneud â'n.

I would really like to say to 10-year-old me, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not wrong. It's okay to be different. It's okay to not be the same as everybody else. Isn't it great that you you know, you see and experience the world differently? Like, you know, I feel um Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd

I used to think, God, I don't feel very well. What's wrong with me? Or, this is a bit strange. Why am I feeling like this? The downside is you can overabsorb other people's feelings and think they're your own. I would just say to her, like, Oh wow, isn't it wonderful that you can feel all these feelings and um you're not wrong in in in what you're feeling or thinking. You know, the sort of the sensory processing, when you feel joy, you just feel

I used to giggle, I used to laugh my head off at things, um, over and over again. So Ghostbusters, I totally love Ghostbusters, I'd watch it over and over again and Janine when she she does a hello ghost bus so just things that are just joyous and you feel them and I love dancing and I love music.

I got really cross with a lot of books that were, you know, nonsense, rubbish that, you know, autistic women don't understand fashion or they're not very interested. It's like this is rubbish, this is nonsense, this doesn't reflect or represent me. The change I want to make in the world is I want to provide tools for women that are discovering this about themselves. I want to share a bit about my experience.

Rydyn ni'n rhoi cymdeithasol a'r cymdeithasol a'r cymdeithasol a'r cymdeithasol a'r cymdeithasol a'r cymdeithasol a'r cymdeithasol. I think when we do discover this about ourselves, a large part well for for me, I just was like, I just want to to be accepted, I want to feel like I belong.

your world and your identity. So that that's a big part that I want to play. I also want to speak wherever I can to change perceptions. So Mae'n ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud.

What neurodivergence is, what it looks like, how it could be experienced to remove those barriers, you know, to open doors for people, to make much easier for them to navigate and to be accepted and for adjustments to be made, accommodations to be made, you know. Mae'n ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud.

Mae'n gweithwyr sy'n gweithwyr sy'n gweithwyr sy'n gweithwyr sy'n gweithwyr sy'n gweithwyr sy'n gweithwyr Rydyn ni'n ymwneud â phobl, felly mae'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n ymwneud â phobl Neurodiversity, they have weeks and days, and you know, where they get the kids to stand up and talk about their difference, and they really create environments for it, but that

getting access to funding is a total nightmare. Um so I, you know, I'd I would love to be quite active in that arena as well because If you are rejected from the first in learning organisation, institution you are in because you're seen as difficult and you're excluded. And autistic children that are in mainstream education, fifty percent of them end up being excluded.

yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw you know, women are assessed. I don't know all the psychological terms for it, but you know, there's not enough research that goes into how autism presents in girls and women and non binary. yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw.

ymwneud â phobl ac ymwneud â phobl ac ymwneud â phobl ac ymwneud â phobl ac ymwneud â phobl. sut mae'r gweithredu'n gweithredu, a sut mae'r gweithredu'n gweithredu, a sut mae'r gweithredu'n gweithredu, a sut mae'r gweithredu, a sut mae'r gweithredu, a sut mae'r gweithredu, a sut mae'r gweithredu. That's always been a challenge for me.

And, you know, when I think about that, I mean, the amount of energy that must have taken an eight year old to pick up a an accent so quickly. I felt like I'd done that for years, that change, but talking to my mum, she said, oh no, you ditched your Scottish accent after.

Rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'n rwy'. And I think um being a chameleon and uh adapting the way I look and sound, um, that was a long term career from the age of eight onwards, really. I I'm conscious of it now.

I I tried to not do it but I c I I can sort of find myself mimicking people's accents and it's not because I'm trying to be disrespectful to them. It it just was a survival mechanism.

I'm also on LinkedIn. Um, I don't hang out there very often because of kind of leaving a career that I didn't feel I left on a Kind of high notes. Um, but I am on there and I do want to join in the conversation more. And I do post articles on there. I've also got my own website. yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw.

I'd like to my, you know, invite people to come and find me on Instagram and join me in conversation. And I it's a very personal journey that you must go on to get to your own self-acceptance in your difference. Mae'n llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer o'r llawer Yeah, it's it's not easy to do, but I feel uh such a a wonderful sense of belonging actually amongst the neurodivergence community because