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The Last Tranche

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Podcast from the Creditflux editorial team discussing global credit funds and CLOs.
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Episodes

The Last Tranche with Oaktree's Jones: why CLO equity is attractive again

Oaktree's Madelaine Jones discusses why investors are finding CLO equity more attractive. CLO issuance is booming due to a return of investors to the market. Many are drawn to CLO equity for its fast cash distribution nature that avoids the J-curve effect of private equity investments.

Nov 13, 202424 minEp. 30

The Last Tranche with New Mountain's Kline and Moshiri

The Last Tranche with New Mountain's Kline and Moshiri: we have more flexibility than a typical CLO around industry selection In this episode of the Last Tranche, John Kline and Cyrus Moshiri from New Mountain Capital discuss the innovative rated feeder fund structure they recently priced, and why they chose this approach over a traditional middle market CLO. After explaining the details of how rated feeder funds like Guardian IV Rated Feeder work, Kline explained that one key benefit is of the ...

Oct 11, 202317 minEp. 26

The Last Tranche with Pearl Diver's Layton: its not about tiering, its about portfolio construction

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Matt Layton, partner and head of Europe at Pearl Diver Capital, discusses strategies for investing in CLO debt and equity amid the recent rally in liabilities. Layton says that analysing a manager's past behaviour is a better predictor of CLO equity returns than how a manager is tiered by the debt markets. He adds that some of the tier one managers have shown that they can be prone to sell loans too quickly during recent periods of volatility, which has cause...

Aug 10, 202330 minEp. 25

The Last Tranche with Sound Point's Desai: the wrong CLO equity investment strategies will see negative returns

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Ujjaval Desai, head of structured products investing at Sound Point Capital Management, shares his ideas about the investment opportunity across the CLO equity universe. Desai says that the best strategies for investing in CLO equity could see returns of up to 20%, but on the other hand, firms that fail to make careful investment decisions could see negative returns. Desai speaks to the various characteristics of CLOs that impact eventual returns including ma...

May 12, 202330 minEp. 24

The Last Tranche with Eagle Point's Ko: We haven't made a primary CLO equity investment in nine months

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Dan Ko, principal and portfolio manager at Eagle Point Credit Management, discusses the relative value opportunity in the CLO market. Ko says that his firm has not made a primary market investment in CLO equity since early 2022, in part because the tightness of the equity arbitrage means investors can get higher yields in the debt stack. Even triple A notes offer more attractive yields than some equity investments, Ko says. Ko also speaks to the cessation of ...

Apr 27, 202324 minEp. 23

The Last Tranche with Blackstone's Zable: regional banking volatility could lead to tighter triple A pricing in CLOs

In this episode of the Last Tranche, Robert Zable, global head of Blackstone's liquid credit strategies, discusses the fallout of the regional banking crisis sparked by the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank on the CLO market. Zable says that the volatile period in March saw deposits shift from smaller regional banks to the large institutions that historically were larger investors in CLOs, a trend which could lead to tighter triple A debt pricing as these banks look to invest this capital. Zable a...

Apr 17, 202318 minEp. 22

The Last Tranche with Octaura's Bejile: most mutual funds regard loans as illiquid because of long settlements

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Brian Bejile, founder and CEO of Octaura, discusses the latest developments towards electrification in the loan and CLO asset classes. Bejile draws from his own experience as a trader to highlight some of the inefficiencies that result from manually trading assets, including human error mistakes and loan settlement times. He discusses the early stages of setting up Octaura, and onboarding the major investment banks in his bid to change the way the market trad...

Feb 10, 202326 minEp. 21

The Last Tranche with MidOcean's Rotondo: retail bid is the wildcard in leveraged loan market

In this episode of the Last Tranche, Joe Rotondo, senior portfolio manager on the credit investments team at MidOcean Partners, looks back on a turbulent year for the leveraged loan asset class. Rotondo discusses the key trends and moments that influenced the loan market through the last 12 months through to the present day, from the general bullishness at the start of the year, to the downturn over the summer and the slowdown in new issue supply. He identifies the key lessons the market can tak...

Dec 06, 202219 minEp. 20

The Last Tranche with AlbaCore's Cohen Malka: The UK gilts crisis showed the CLO market is more liquid than people thought

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Deborah Cohen Malka, partner and portfolio manager at AlbaCore Capital Group, discusses the performance and challenges facing the European CLO market. Cohen Malka says that assets and liabilities in European CLOs are in a delicate balance, where the pricing of a single new issue CLO raises loan prices to the extent that other new CLOs become uneconomic. She also speaks to the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine on credit markets, and how the energy crisis ...

Nov 14, 202221 minEp. 19

The Last Tranche with Bain's Wright: We're likely to see manager consolidation as the benefits of scale come to bear

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Bain Capital Credit managing director John Wright discusses the manager landscape in the CLO market. Wright talks about the importance of a CLO manager's role in the performance of the asset class. Whether a manager is a small or large firm, whether a manager has a captive equity fund or syndicates, or whether a manager has an aggressive or conservative investment strategy, will impact the outlook of any individual CLO. Wright also discusses the recent trend ...

Nov 02, 202219 minEp. 18

The Last Tranche with Octagon's Nechamkin: Investors were selling the larger loans that were easier to sell

In this episode of the Last Tranche, Mike Nechamkin, chief investment officer and senior portfolio manager at Octagon Credit Investors, discusses the reasons behind the recovery in loan prices in recent weeks. He says that there has been a fair amount of dispersion in US loans. Although the US loan index was down 400 basis points at the end of June, smaller borrowers (loans of less than $500 million) outperformed, dropping about 300bp compared to roughly 540bp for the largest loan issuers. CLO m...

Aug 22, 202219 minEp. 17

The Last Tranche with Flat Rock's Bates: mid-market CLO equity proves advantageous in crisis

In this episode of The Last Tranche, Creditflux' s Hugh Minch sits down with Flat Rock Global managing director Shiloh Bates. Topics include launching a new CLO fund, the advantage of middle market CLOs in a crisis, and how some risk retention fund investors' equity positions have underperformed. This edition of The Last Tranche is made in association with Flat Rock, who's Flat Rock Opportunity Fund was named Best CLO Fund at the Creditflux Manager Awards 2020.

Aug 20, 202030 minEp. 7

The Last Tranche with Guggenheim's Duffy: CLOs will pay more for loans than today’s index prices

Marking the long-awaited return of the Last Tranche podcast, Creditflux's Hugh Minch talks to Adrian Duffy, head of European corporate credit at Guggenheim Investments in Dublin. Topics include life under lockdown, tackling the challenges of managing CLO portfolios since the March sell-off, as well as the outlook for loan buying in a market that is "technically driven, not fundamentally driven". This edition of The Last Tranche is in association with Guggenheim, which was named Best European bou...

Aug 10, 202031 minEp. 6
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